Searching For A F*ck To Give About Kirk Cameron’s Anti-Gay Comments

So in the 80’s they used to make these young adult novel versions of popular television shows — they probably still do this now, I guess — and although my Mom wouldn’t let me watch those popular television shows or, really, read those novels, somehow a copy of a Growing Pains novel ended up in my 3rd grade classroom and I read it. More specifically: I read it about 500 times. It was the first thing I’d ever read about teenagers (maybe) having sex and it blew my mind.

the cast of Growing Pains

Before I get into this Novel Experience, a brief intro to the show in general: Growing Pains was a mega-popular sitcom that aired from 1985-1992 on ABC about an affluent Long Island family: work-from-home psychiatrist Dad Jason Seaver (Alan Thicke), journalist Mom Maggie (Joanna Kerns), rascally heartthrob Mike (Kirk Cameron), super-smart studious Carol (Tracey Gold) and “rambunctious” Ben (Jeremy Miller). For two years, Leonardo DiCaprio played a recurring role as a homeless boy taken in by The Seavers.

Kirk Cameron with Leonardo DiCaprio

So, the chapter I liked, which I assume was based on an episode, involved Mike hooking up with a girl. I think. Specifics escape me now but the girl was somehow special and intimidating, like she was older or super-hot or more experienced, maybe? I distinctly remember that it ended with her leaving the house and Mike walking down the stairs and telling Ben that he needed to take “a cold shower,” which I thought meant he’d just had sex but I now realize meant he’d just NOT had sex.

It’s funny, considering what Kirk Cameron has become, that my strongest association with his existence was that sexual-innuendo-packed teen novelization-of-a-sitcom. See, Kirk Cameron was an atheist when he first joined the cast of Growing Pains. At 17, he became a born-again Christian (one who would’ve strongly opposed storylines involving sex or cold showers). Now he’s a full-time Evangelical.

He’s been in the news this week because on March 2nd, Cameron appeared on CNN’s Piers Morgan show and was asked for his opinion on same-sex marriage. His answer:

“I think that it’s – it’s – it’s unnatural. I think that it’s – it’s detrimental, and ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization. Marriage is almost as old as dirt, and it was defined in the garden between Adam and Eve. One man, one woman for life till death do you part. So I would never attempt to try to redefine marriage. And I don’t think anyone else should either. So do I support the idea of gay marriage? No, I don’t.”

Since that night I’ve been getting a lot of emails from GLAAD about Kirk Cameron, and I’ve been seeing a lot of Kirk Cameron articles on my Google Reader and I’ve seen lots of my Facebook Friends recanting their childhood crushes on Kirk Cameron and expressing public remorse regarding their teenaged investment in multiple copies of his Tiger Beat centerfold.

GLAAD is asking its supporters to sign a petition to tell Kirk Cameron that he’s no longer your idol. From its email call to action:

Kirk Cameron joins former TV stars Victoria Jackson and Chuck Norris in desperately trying to remain in the public eye by using anti-LGBT rhetoric…

While Cameron is using his platform to speak out against gay people, his ‘Growing Pains’ co-stars including Leonardo Dicaprio, Brad Pitt and Hilary Swank have spoken out for LGBT equality and are enjoying critically successful careers. Joanna Kerns, who played Cameron’s mom on ‘Growing Pains’ also co-starred in the cult hit ‘All Over The Guy’ as the mother of a gay man.

Today’s teen idols are also standing up for equality in America. Aziz Ansari, Chris Colfer, Miley Cyrus, Hilary Duff, Dakota Fanning, Zac Efron, Josh Hutcherson, Kristen Stewart, and many more have all spoken out in support of LGBT people.

Furthermore:

“In this interview, Kirk Cameron sounds even more dated than his 1980s TV character,” said Herndon Graddick, Senior Director of Programs at GLAAD. “Cameron is out of step with a growing majority of Americans, particularly people of faith who believe that their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters should be loved and accepted based on their character and not condemned because of their sexual orientation.”

Piers Morgan disagreed with Cameron when asked what he would do if one of his kids came out. Morgan said: “If one of my sons [came out], I’d say ‘that’s great son, as long as you’re happy.'”

Yet despite all this hullabaloo and the obviously inexcusable nature of Cameron’s comments, I can’t seem to summon a fuck to give about this. See, anyone who spent inordinate amounts of time channel-flipping in the early ’00s (Cameron was often on the Christian channel preaching about things) is aware that Kirk Cameron’s mainstream acting career, rather than being a life-defining experience, was a thing he did as a kid before going on to doing what he really cares about, which is “sharing the gospel with teenagers, intellectuals, atheists, Moslems, Jews, Cults, backsliders, and the self righteous.”

Cameron is currently married to actress Chelsea Noble, who played his girlfriend on the show. 

In other words: I really doubt Cameron gives a fuck about whether or not he’s still your teen idol!

(It’s also a strange strategy for a GLBTQ organization — asking gay men and women to redact their crushes on a straight man?)

When Cameron became a born-again Christian, he became a bit of a pain in the ass on the set of Growing Pains, refusing to do any storylines that were against his faith, like insisting on removing any suggestion of pre-marital sex. Cameron also pushed producers to fire Julie McCullough, an actress hired to play the nanny, because Cameron objected to her having posed nude in Playboy. (Meanwhile, his cast-mate Tracey Gold was suffering from severe anorexia nervosa, an issue she has spoken out about many times since.)

After Growing Pains, from which Cameron banked over 50K a week, he did more film and television work, such as Like Father Like Son and Listen To Me and eventually his own sitcom, Kirk. In Kirk, Cameron played a “graphical designer” and former “mischievous screw-up” forced to move home and care for his three younger siblings after their parents moved to Europe. It aired for two seasons on the WB in 1995 and 1996.

He pretty much left mainstream film and television after that, besides doing Growing Pains movies in 2000 and 2004, and appearing on Larry King Live with the cast in 2006 when the series was released on DVD.

He’s now devoted himself entirely to spreading his interpretation of the “word of God” and starring in Christian movies like Left Behind: The Movie. He’s the co-host, along with evangelist Ray Comfort, of an unintentionally hilarious Evangelical program called The Way of the Master, in which Comfort and his “team” wear matching polo shirts and annoy innocent people on the street with The Gospel.

Cameron even wrote a book about his journey, “From Fame to Faith,” and here is the video from his Good Morning America appearance promoting that book:

Cameron doesn’t believe in science or evolution, which is why he participates in fantastic stunts like distributing an annotated/edited/revamped version of Darwin’s The Origin of the Species on college campuses — a version which promoted Cameron and Comfort’s creationist agenda. He also tours the country talking about marriage and how to save it from “the pain and brokenness we see in homes today.”

Cameron’s latest kick is Conservative political action centered around his new film, Monumental, which describes how his vaycay to Plymouth Rock really brought him back to America’s religious roots, hammering home the fact that “the meaning of separation of church and state has lost its original meaning. It’s now a codeword for secularizing the state.”

So was anybody surprised by his comments to Piers Morgan? Like any religious zealot you ask about gay people on television, you know the answer’s gonna be homophobic and irritating before you ask it.  Just last year, The Advocate described Kirk as “an outspoken opponent of gay rights.” (Although his similarly religious sister, Candace, who I was in love with when she played DJ Tanner on Full House, did sit down for an interview with Perez Hilton, which mens she probs hates gays less than Kirk does.) Kirk has shared his anti-gay views on television before, like during this 2008 Bill O’Reilly appearance:

Although GLAAD has successfully obtained apologies from celebrities like Tracy Morgan and Adam Corolla for offensive things they said publicly about LGBT people, there’s not a chance in hell Kirk Cameron, like any religious zealot, is gonna listen to GLAAD’s mating call. So I guess my question is — is Cameron really worth our time right now?  Certainly it’s always good to raise awareness, I can’t argue with that. What do you think?

I remain undecided, but I’ve recently acquired new feelings about that Piers Morgan fellow. See — last night, according to Gawker, “TMZ ambushed Piers Morgan to ask about his thoughts on Cameron’s statements. Using what was maybe not the best word choice, Morgan called Cameron’s strict adherence to his morals “brave.” Instead of bowing to societal pressure, as many would have, Morgan noted that Cameron “was honest to what he believed.”

I’d be first in line to sign a petition to get Piers Morgan to take that shit back.

In the meantime, I’m gonna go take a scalding hot shower.

Riese is the 39-year-old Co-Founder and CEO of Autostraddle.com as well as an award-winning writer, blogger, fictionist, copywriter, video-maker and aspiring cyber-performance artist who grew up in Michigan, lost her mind in New York and then headed West. Her work has appeared in nine books including "The Bigger the Better The Tighter The Sweater: 21 Funny Women on Beauty, Body Image & Other Hazards Of Being Female," magazines including Marie Claire and Curve, and all over the web including Nylon, Queerty, Nerve, Bitch, Emily Books and Jezebel. She had a very popular personal blog once upon a time, and then she recapped The L Word, and then she had the idea to make this place, and now here we all are! In 2016, she was nominated for a GLAAD Award for Outstanding Digital Journalism. Follow her on twitter and instagram.

Riese has written 2865 articles for us.

83 Comments

  1. I feel like we have bigger problems then signing a petition against Kirk Camerons. We all hear how people are against same-sex marriage so why is his statement any different than the rest? I’m not loving what he said about us being unnatural…but is this really the first time we have heard this? No.

  2. “Using what was maybe not the best word choice, Morgan called Cameron’s strict adherence to his morals “brave.” Instead of bowing to societal pressure, as many would have, Morgan noted that Cameron “was honest to what he believed.”

    I will say I hate this notion that we should respect people for clinging to stupid bigoted beliefs in the face of all logic and reason. As to whether I give a fuck about Kirk Cameron no, no I don’t. Sometimes I think we’d better off just ignoring people like him. Putting him on T.V. and so forth gives his dumbassery an air of being legit that it sure doesn’t need.

  3. Today I almost clicked on yet another clip of Santorum saying yet another crazy thing, and then I thought, “Maybe I would be a happier person if I ignored people who say predictably crazy things.”

    So instead I went to Youtube and looked at videos of corgis. Corgis are having a moment right now, apparently.

  4. Yeah, I feel like Kirk Cameron’s religious nuttiness has been a well-known joke for a while. For example, he’s been Family Guy’s go-to guy for jokes about “born-again” celebrities for years. I don’t see why anyone is so shocked by this.

    And I agree that we’d be better off spending our time on someone who might actually listen. Kirk Cameron doesn’t care what GLAAD thinks. Piers Morgan might.

  5. I can’t seem to care what anyone’s opinion. I would in fact fight for the right for the expression of an opinion different then my own, because this is America. The LGBT marriage fight isn’t about opinion, it’s about constitutional rights…

  6. I’m not 100 percent certain (my memory of every E! True Hollywood Story I ever saw in the 90s is not what it used to be), but I think Kirk Cameron was converted to evangelical Christianity by Leanna Creel, AKA Tori from Saved By The Bell AKA the biker chick who replaced Kelly Kapowski as Head Brunette for that one season, who was his girlfriend in the mid-80s. The irony of this is that Leanna Creel is now married to a woman.

    http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Unconventional-Marriage-A-Judeo-Christian-I-Do.html

    (And is, based on the article at that link, still uber-Christian, but much more open-minded than Kirk Cameron.)

    • I KNEW IT! My gaydar went off as soon as I saw Tori on screen. I was like, “Zach. Don’t even bother, man.” But wow, didn’t know about the rest of the story. Wish she was more outspoken in perhaps giving conflicted Christians an idea of what it’s like to be okay with gay and God. I feel like often so many are just going along with what a few unreasonable people with a little bit of power are saying as a means of avoiding conflict altogether. They say they support what the jackasses say when they are among their own but, in my experience, aren’t likely to be as severe when dealing with a gay person face to face. I think many are painfully torn about how to be a good person and a good Christian. Even as an atheist, I understand and respect that.

  7. Who’s this guy in the bigger picture, anyway?

    By the way, maybe Piers Morgan was just trying to be diplomatic. He did say he wouldn’t have a problem if his son were gay, after all… I mean, he probably knows Cameron would get bashed by lgbt folks, so that’s what would make him sharing his opinions “brave”, right?

    • That’s the same impression I got from PM’s “brave” statement. I’m pretty sure he called Cameron’s views archaic (or some synonym) in the same sentence. I didn’t feel like he was really agreeing with/supporting what was said.

    • I’m still not a fan of calling it “brave,” though, especially since I’ve seen anti-gay religious folks congratulate each other in similar ways when they “stand up for what they believe in.” It’s like telling them that they’re fine not reexamining their stance and I don’t know if that’s a message we can afford to send? It’s just going to increase their persecution complex. (“Oh no, the whole world’s turning against what I believe and they hate me for it, BUT I AM STILL RIGHTEOUS AND BRAVE!”)
      It may be no more malicious than a poor choice of words on Morgan’s part, but I think it’s a step in the wrong direction.

  8. I firmly fall in the not giving a f*ck category with this guy. He’s a pull string doll — nothing he says about the LGBTQ community is remotely surprising given his well-documented discent into evangelical Christianity. And if he’s the most high profile “celebrity” news shows can get to argue against same-sex marriage, I’d say we’re doing pretty well.

  9. Not to keep bringing up the E! True Hollywood Story, but I also recall Kirk going on about how he loved having children, and especially how he could mold and shape them as he liked. It was creepy as fuck. Quite frankly, his opposition to gay marriage is really the least of my worries re: his weirdo beliefs.

    I’m much more concerned (or maybe annoyed is the right word) that a man in the running for the Republican presidential nomination wants to annul the marriages of the 130,000 gay couples who have been legally wed in the US since 2004. Like, really?

  10. GLAAD is just doing what it does: addressing defamation of gays in the media. That it’s Kirk Cameron who said it is completely unimportant, IMO. It’s that someone said it on a mainstream cable news channel. It has to be addressed and responded to because ignoring it definitely doesn’t make it go away.

    • Yep. I agree completely. It takes less time to sign it than to discuss whether it’s worth signing, and it does no harm.

      Not challenging this statement in *some* way – a public statement, made by a person deliberately using his privileged public platform – sort of legitimises it. After all, if we can’t be bothered to challenge these sorts of statements ourselves, then why should anyone else bother? And not challenging it also sends a message to the more vulnerable members of our community that it is OK for people to say these sorts of things about them.

      A petition addressed to Kirk Cameron himself may not be the most effective response, but it is the only co-ordinated response we have at the moment. Just the fact that GLAAD has publicised this petition may help some LGBT person who is in a bad mental place in their life. It almost doesn’t matter whether Cameron himself cares or not.

  11. If this was someone besides Kirk Cameron (read:someone relevant)I would be disappointed/disgusted/sad/have all the feelings, but since it’s not I would instead like to remind everyone of the gloriousness that was the growing pains opening credits. Show me that smile again….

  12. Welp, to be honest… Kirk hasnt been normal since experiencing the traps and falls of fame, watching it almost destroy Tracy Gold with that eating disorder and the younger brother on that show with drugs. He also was at the center of that teen heartthrob thing… that will also fuck with your very soul. And he just… hasnt been right since.

    Doesnt explain this douchebaggery tho.

  13. It would seem to me that an evangelical Christian would be happy to receive a petition that said he wasn’t someone’s idol because he would want God to be their idol and not him (or something like that). So that seems like a poor choice of petition-starting all around.

    Also, did no one else notice the stack of cash in his shirt pocket in the picture where he is posing with his book?

  14. I spent most of my childhood hoping I’d get a garage apartment and Chelsea Noble would move in and tutor me. I never got the garage apartment, but my place is super nice. So the only f- I give is noble’s never moving in.

    Also, totally had no idea DJ Tanner was Kirk’s sister.

  15. When Leonardo DiCaprio or Alan Thicke start being anti-gay I’ll start giving a fuck.

    Because those movies that Kirk was in, the Left Behind series, were on my summer reading list in middle school in TN. If I wasn’t already terrified of being gay then those books would have done the job.

    I say forget him not because he’s saying one or two random ignorant things about homosexuals and marriage equality but do it because he’s always been proud to be apart of something that pushes fear into kids.

    “Be like me or burn in hell” No thanks Kirk.

  16. I agree with everyone; no, this is not worth paying attention to. In fact, I’m going to take it a step further and say that this article shouldn’t even have been written. When we write about idiots like this who spew out poisonous messages and who obviously aren’t going to have a change of heart any time soon, we are only taking their message seriously enough to give it a place at the table of discussion. In other words, by paying attention to whats-his-face, we are actually strengthening his message. Let him talk like the idiot he is. The fewer people around to listen to it the better. He does not deserve a place at the table and we should not give it to him by raising awareness about his ass-hattery

    If we absolutely must talk about it, I feel the only effective route to dealing with people like Cameron is blatant ridicule. That way, we can talk about it and still keep his voice weak and ineffective

  17. I have a long history with Kirk Cameron. He was my celebrity crush when I was 12. So much so that I donated some of my Bat Mitzvah money to his charity and actually got in contact with him. I knew he was uber religious, but my 12 year-old mind could not fathom that the perfect man (that’s really funny now because of the whole gay thing) could have flaws.

    You’ve hurt me, Kirk. Really bad. Now I have feelings.

    True Story: Kirk Cameron turned me gay.

  18. “the meaning of separation of church and state has lost its original meaning. It’s now a codeword for secularizing the state.”

    This was so stupid that I had to quote it, just in case people missed it the first time around.

    I can’t bring myself to care about this jerk’s opinion, possibly because a.) his sitcom ended before I was born and b.) he’s just another nutjob, and not even a particularly powerful one, so it’s not like his opinion carries much weight.

    Really, the most important thing I got out of this article was that Leonardo DiCaprio was a really cute kid.

  19. my friend’s dad in high school was an evangelical preacher and we came into her house one day and he was watching ‘fireproof’, kirk cameron’s movie from 2008, which is basically just a long evangelical PSA about not divorcing your husband (aka Kirk Cameron who plays the husband) even though he is insane. after watching the movie, my friend’s dad decided to make a movie night at his church based around it with all of the supplemental material about “fireproofing your marriage”. yeah…

    we watched one scene which involved kirk smashing his computer with a baseball bat so that he won’t be tempted by the his ‘devilish nature’ to watch porn. seriously. so yeah, didn’t give a fuck then, don’t give a fuck now.

    • A friend got me to watch this movie a couple years back. She loved it and thought it had a positive message. Mind you, she also tried arguing that going out drinking in a short skirt = consent. I hope she never meets/marries an asswipe.

      Moral of the story: some people have fucked up beliefs, don’t concern yourself with their misguided opinions.

  20. I dunno, I kindof give a f*ck. As a person of faith, it really upsets me to see someone use it as a bludgeon against people’s basic rights. I just can’t see why someone can’t simply say, “Homosexuality is against my faith. Period.” I don’t eat pork, but I don’t go around declaring pigs unnatural. It’s sad, because faith can play a beautiful, transformative role in people’s lives. And while being boorish doesn’t negate that beauty, it does seem to put a mask over it.

  21. I dunno who this guy is and anyone who references the Old Testament is clearly an idiot anyway.

    More importantly, HOW FREAKIN’ CUTE ARE YOU, BABY LEONARDO DI CAPRIO???!!! Jesus Christ he’s like a basket of puppies cuddling with some kittens and possibly a bunny, like the miniature lop eared kind. Gyuh.

  22. I think that it is interesting that these comments were lauded as “brave”. Is this perhaps telling of the climate of opinions in our culture being anti-bigot? As in, it takes guts to be the voice of bigoted descent because lots of people are getting on the equality train? I don’t think that’s a safe claim to make yet, but perhaps this is an early indication that the tide is shifting.

    Also, as a person of faith, I’d argue that NOBODY gives a fuck about Cameron. He isn’t making any significant contributions to the Christian dialogues that are currently happening. He just isn’t one of the voices that anyone pays attention to. He might be recognized as that actor from that shitty “Fireproof” movie, but that’s probably the extent of it. He might have more significance then I realize because of the type of liberal Christian folk I’m around, but I seriously doubt it.

    • Is that really worse than waging war with the humanity of actual gay people? And I say this as someone who has a very strong respect for the separation of church and state and is totally appalled by all the attempts to shove creationism into schools. But I just can’t see how attacking a concept is as bad as attacking actual people.

      Also, his “war” on it, if I’m correctly informed, is basically handing out his edited versions of On the Origin of Species at college campuses. That’s not on the same level as the people who are trying to impact actual curricula by filling school boards with creationists, for example, or challenging the teaching of evolution in court or at the ballot box.

  23. I was totally on the not really giving a fuck train, but then I saw the comcast.net homepage. One of its top videos is “Gay Group rips ‘Pains’ Star. I get that they have limited space but GLAAD has less letters. instead it reads like ‘oh look the gays are at it again’. Or maybe I shouldn’t have stayed up so late watching the Prop 8 trial reenactment and I’m just super cranky.

  24. Trying to talk sense or compassion to Kirk Cameron is a waste of time and effort. GLAAD would make more of an impact by addressing Piers Morgan for giving this douchenozzle a platform for his idiocy.

    On a somewhat related note: The Slacktivist is doing a take down of Kirk Cameron’s ‘Left Behind’ movies. He actually does a page-by-page analysis of the books and shows how they fail on every level. Then when he finishes a book, he does the same for the movie version of that book (in 10 minute chunks, so you don’t claw your own eyes out). Right now he’s nearly through the second movie. It’s hilarious!

  25. I’m not surprised. Sadly, this is not the only reason I have come to dislike Kirk Cameron.
    As a pagan, I have friends of the druid tradition. The reason their ceremonies (Orange County) are closed off to the public is Kirk Cameron: he infiltrated their sacred circle to record the ritual with his own hateful commentary.
    This guy is BAD NEWS.

  26. Kirk Cameron and Growing Pains were before my time. Also, I can’t allow myself to stress about what another white straight cisgendered man feels about my life. So I literally am unable to produce a single drop of cunt juice of care about this. I can’t write that he’s no longer my idol… maybe that he was never my idol? Ever.
    That’s still too much work, so.

  27. Well looking at that video of him and his wife on Regis/Kathie Lee, I can see why he’d be confused why any man would prefer peen over her. He’s okay in my book for slipping a ring on that with a quickness!

    The insanely religious mind their scruples. I know most pple don’t get it, but for someone who grows up convinced anything blasphemed in the bible will lead to an eternity of hell, then it’s real for them. Fear of hell forevs will scare the meek into raving homophobia.

    Just ignore them and they eventually retreat to the wheat fields of America’s heartland.

  28. Kirk Cameron represents exactly the kind of person that I come across everyday and are in my family. They are well-intentioned and don’t mean to cause trouble or anything they are just trying to do their best at holding their ground on their positions when MOST people are against them. I have talked to my family who are all evangelical Christians about gay marriage, and homosexuality in general and they seem to have a fear that since their opinions are not popular that one day they will be persecuted. Weird but I guess I get it. Kirk is by far not the worst of them. Am I giving them too much slack you think?

    I think that eventually when people realize that they know gay people and their in their families are their neighbors and co-workers they might change their minds about us. That was Harvey Milk’s goal was to get people to come out for that very purpose.

  29. I should have known I was gay earlier on when I could not, for the life of me, figure out why everyone gave a shit about and cried over Kirk Cameron. But then this actress on the show, Chelsea Noble, later became his wife and I was soooo jealous. Yup, I wasn’t gay at all.

    Oh and check this woman out – she is GORGEOUS. Shame she’s married to that (and holds the same beliefs). Here: http://www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_4459/chelsea-noble/photo

    Ps. I just looked Chelsea Noble up on wikipedia and she did WOMEN’S RUGBY in college. Hmm….

  30. For all of your “so called tolerance”, when someone is not in agreement with your lifestyle, they are slammed. So can I call you Christ-o–phobe? Or heterophobe?

    I find that the LBGT supported community to be the least tolorant of all. You guys do nothing but slam and slander anyone who is not in agreement with you. I have gay friends that know I do not agree with their lifestyle, yet we are still friends.
    Your article, along with many in the outspoken LBGT community, is very hateful and outright ugly towards anyone that does not agree with your agenda. I say…grow up.

    I would also point you to an article written by a gay man about how the LBGT agenda is doing damage. Gay pride parades and events are center on sex and he stated he would caution a gay young person from goin to the events because they are lewd and perverse. That is coming from someone in that community.

    In short, the door swings both ways on tolorance. From this article, I see none of the love and acceptance that you are so called supporting

  31. One last comment…why are you not speaking out as harshly to the Islamic faithful who are 100% in disagreement with the LBGT agenda? They are more outspoken and against this lifestyle. Interesting who you are targeting as intolorant.

  32. At first I thought the second picture was from the episode you referred to (growing up in Germany with just two TV stations for the first years of my life obviously limits my ability to recognize a pre-Titanic Leonardo DiCaprio) and I was like: Of course they didn’t have sex – look at her flannel, she must be a lesbian!

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