Everyone knows that Julie Goldman & Brandy Howard are some dirty-ass bitches, but that doesn’t mean they never get offended! Though it’s true that Julie & Brandy are almost constantly offended by how much better Nicest Thing is than Avatar considering Avatar’s box office success and Nicest Thing’s relative incompleteness, they think most joke topics are totally acceptable, including rape and old people. However, Julie Goldman & Brandy Howard saw Hot Tub Time Machine, and now Julie has a thing or two to say about homo jokes in movies, and you probably wanna hear it!
Also the next episode of Julie & Brandy in Your Box Office will debut Monday, April 26, right here on Autostraddle.com.
i need the DOUBLE RAMMER montage to appear in more episodes of IYBO.
anyway obvs obvs obvs agreeing with The Gold on this one: no more homo jokes. done and done.
“Riese isn’t going to leave any of that in.” = <3
I need the DOUBLE RAMMER montage to appear in more episodes of my life. Brilliant.
Seriously. Amazing job Riese, that montage takes the cake. Also no moar homo jokes — thank god Julie keeps it REALS. EXECUTIVE LESBIAN REALNESS RIGHT HERE.
Hysterical as usual, ladies. I’m the same way, I get all cringey and uncomfortable when jokes/movies get homophobic. But I get the same way when people use the R word…
i’m going to throw it out there that i don’t see how homo jokes are any less stomach turning than jokes about other groups that are institutionally discriminated against.
they aren’t, but those jokes make everyone’s stomach turn. i think (imho) the basic idea is that people still think homo jokes are funny and inoffensive and therefore load up a buddy guy movie with tons of homo jokes… like american pie, and everyone has a good laugh and no-one feels weird about it. as opposed to the awkwardness someone would feel if presented with a similar jokes about other groups that are institutionally discriminated against.
Aussie TV show Gruen Transfer (which is about advertising) made an ad on a similar stance, except instead of homo jokes it was about fat jokes (with homo jokes being stuff that people don’t find funny anymore). It was so controversial even ABC TV (which are normally pretty open) wouldn’t air it.
People still think Insert-Marginalised-Group-Here jokes are funny. Hell over here people don’t get why I don’t think “FIVE DORRA FIVE DORRA” is particularly humourous. “It’s just a joke! I’m not racist!”
I love these things:
1) THAT MONTAGE
2) the word zealotrous
3) “Riese isn’t going to leave any of that in”
While I appreciate these ladies I’m a little disgusted that rape jokes are “OK”. Especially when Goldman goes on to say how sickened she is with these “Boy movies” making women as objects to fuck. Please enlighten me as to how then she feels rape is, funny?
Exactly, I was just about to post that. Why are rape jokes okay? Rape should never be funny. In no context is it funny.
Though I understand your point in theory, I think there’s another side to it — i don’t think you would see julie and brandy making jokes which belittle or trivialize rape or the experience of female sexual violation. but that’s not the only kind of “rape joke.” I imagine that most will agree with you here because it’s dangerous to step out into not PC territory on this one, I’m going to try.
This is quite eloquently examined in Is A Rape Joke Ever Funny? from Jezebel a few years back; it examines the author’s own experience of sexual assault and looks at recent ‘rape jokes’ from Wanda Sykes, Sarah Silverman, South Park and The Office.
From that post:
I will be the first person to admit that I have a sick sense of humor. I never lose a gross-out contest, I revel in inappropriate jokes and I consider, when telling a joke, a look of horror as nearly as good as getting a laugh. But I often hear from people — men and women — that rape jokes are never, ever funny. Well, I would like to disagree — and to point out that even some people who swear that this is true can find one that they like. But, furthermore, by putting sexual assault on a kind of untouchable comedy pedestal, I think we’re getting further away from allowing victims to be able to make it a normative, discuss-able and, yes, mock-able experience, and that the more different we make it and ourselves from victims of other situations, the more difficult it is the get actual equity in the way the rest of society treats it.
It’s a worthwhile read. Though I understand the knee-jerk PC instinct to deny rape jokes, I think the author of Jezebel also makes a good point when she says: “Which then, of course, brings it back to the question: when is it funny? And I think the answer is, for a lot of people, when you like or respect the person telling the joke. Which is fine, and it’s how most jokes work, but you can’t then argue that they’re never funny, or they can’t ever be funny. Lots of humor comes from the juxtaposition of our civilized collective state of being and the ways in which we betray the lie of that constantly.”
A lot of jokes “not being funny” is about power. straight men have power over gay men so it’s not funny to make fun of them. Dave Chapelle can make fun of black people but we’d feel uneasy seeing Jeff Foxworthy do the same (well also Jeff’s not funny). So much of comedy is about context, yet we ignore context when debating PC language. I think it’s important to remember that taking it out of context is not really relevant. Because there is always context.
This this this. I hate the word victim and I hate the word survivor, but I could be described as both. If I can’t talk about–and yes, even laugh about–all my experiences, then that is just one more way that my attacker has found a way to control another aspect of my life.
I refuse to be defined by that one moment in my life. I refuse to conform to what everyone thinks I should be and how I should behave because of that one moment in my life. I’m better than that, more complex than that. If I want to laugh about the time I was raped, you damn well believe I will. I don’t care who’s offended by it. I’m going to reclaim that moment in time and make of it what I want to.
i sorta teared up while reading this comment?
Yes a person who was raped should be able to make light of the situation if that is their way of coping. So rape victims can make jokes. But for those who don’t do that, for those who wish to never think about it again and don’t want to bring it up and whenever the subject does come up they just get uncomfortable or remember it again it’s a different story. Ways of coping are different for everyone. Some get through it easier, some don’t. For those who haven’t been raped they should not make rape jokes, ever. Its a trigger for other people who have been raped.
Another problem with rape jokes is that they portray certain stereotypes like she was drunk/a slut etc trying to increase the myths that it’s the persons fault (arguing that if ur ___ its ur fault). The world already doesn’t take rape seriously. Why should we add numerous amounts of jokes to trivialize it?
While I agree that rape jokes of the “she’s asking for it” and “oh man, that test raped me” variety are never funny, I must admit to laughing very hard during one rape joke. My friend and I were laughing about something else entirely. The kind of laughing that makes you hurt all over and cannot stop. She choked out something along the lines of, “Say something terrible so I can stop laughing.” I responded with, “I was raped.” (note: that’s the truth, the joke wasn’t me making up a rape, that would be terrible) There was a moment when all laughter stopped, and then we started laughing even harder than before. She’s a very PC and compassionate person. I like to think I’m the same. I believe in the context of our specific friendship it was okay. Perhaps a lot of you will think otherwise, so sorry in advance.
I think it might go with “laughing at a funeral humor.” Sometimes people don’t quite know how to react to an emotional situation or issue, and laughter is what ends up happening.
yes, that would be the story of my life to the degree that when my dad actually died and i called my friends to tell them, they thought i was kidding. of course as i’ve gotten older and experienced many of life’s finest delights first-hand, including many variations on the tragedies we’re discussing right now, I find humor is consistently the most satisfying way to reclaim your power over an otherwise threatening situation.
Yeah, that part disturbed me too.
I’m not sure where I stand on the whole issue in theory. But I agree with Anna that it’s important to look at this video specifically. You can’t take that statement out of context — the context being comedy, women & a lot of things that are said facetiously. I feel like the format of “the internet” makes it way too easy to take things out of context and judge them there, but comedy — especially comedy about dicey topics or controversial issues — cannot be taken out of context.
I mean let’s be real here: Looking at this video specifically, I don’t think Julie Goldman would make a rape joke that portrayed women as objects to fuck. This, like everything, is in line with the rest of their beliefs. It’s unlikely anyone would contradict themselves so gravely. Julie & Brandy wouldn’t defend some straight white male making a joke about how a girl was asking for it, they’d fucking hate it! It’s unlikely that there’s something misogynistic going on here when you’re dealing with two people who are clearly not misogynists.
Think about it this way:can you imagine Dane Cooke telling Julie’s famous Lezzilla joke? No! ‘Cause it would be gross and demeaning. But when Julie tells it, it makes you pee in your pants. Context is everything.
In The Sexist, Amanda Hess points out quite well how what makes a rape joke funny or not funny is who is being made fun of. Jokes about “she’s asking for it” or anything targeting the victim of sexual assault; I agree those aren’t funny. She analyzes the “target” of The Onion’s rape jokes to show how that element is what makes or breaks the joke. In this post, she makes that point by comparing Jamie Foxx’s “blame it on the alcohol” to Amanda Palmer’s “Oasis.”
Personally, I don’t like to say any area is off-limits for comedy. However I’m limited in what I see — I actually can’t think of any white male comedians that I’d buy a ticket to go see do stand-up. So, I dunno.
I think mainly they’re saying it’s lazy, unfunny comedy.
ok… everyone is arguing if rapes jokes are funny or not.. that’s not really the issue…
rape jokes are a trigger for a lot of people… i really don’t care about someone’s personal decision to laugh about it so they can own their experiences blablabla. i mean, GREAT for you, but that’s not how everyone feels. when you get to that moment in your life when you can laugh about it you’re LUCKY and probably older etc….
i remember the day after my brother found out i had been sexually abused… suddenly everything was so fresh and i was super sensible about it.. we were watching t.v. and we both needed to chill out so we started watching some “boy movie” he had seen and thought i would like. of course he didn’t remember there was a rape/abuse(i don’t know how to call it) joke that at the time he had found funny…. it was so awkward and painful for both of us…
so for wren.. i think it’s beautiful you have power over your experiences, you CAN laugh about it if you want, but when you say “i don’t care who’s offended by it” you’re not just talking about conservatives or close minded people or whatever who find those jokes not classy, and you’re not talking about people who get offended… if a girl is raped one day and the next one she listens some rape joke (from whoever, i don’t care) the least she will feel is offended… first she’ll probably remember everything which then will probably bring those common thoughts of being dirty, guilty, hurt… and then she will feel society just doesn’t give a shit
and i repeat, i don’t care who makes those jokes because even if that person was raped too, it doesn’t give them wisdom over everyone else’s experiences or possible reactions, because everyone is different… of course i know julie doesn’t support rape! i’m not saying that, i’m just saying people need to be careful about these things, there’s no honorary rape victim who can make rape jokes for me
The formula for comedy is widely accepted as Tragedy + Time.
If our proof is Tragedy + Time = Funny, we can determine the following:
Rape = Tragedy. Using the transitive property of equality, we can thus say that Tragedy + Time = Funny = Rape + Time.
Gay != Tragedy. A Tragedy + Time = Funny = Gay + Time would be a proof in error. Gay is not equal to tragedy, and thus cannot be substituted.
This is why gay jokes are unfunny but rape jokes can be.
If more proofs were like this, I would have payed more attention in geometry class.
Sometimes gay jokes can be funny when told by a gay person, like Suzanne Westenhoefer etc. or the LGBT laughs tumblr which is full of win btw guys. http://lgbtlaughs.tumblr.com/ except lately they are on this “this made me gay” kinda jokes which is okay.
I feel the ONLY way rape jokes are ok are when they deal with rape in a way that empowers the victim and helps the overall cause of women’s rights. If it does not do these two things or sees the actual occurrence of rape as funny in and of itself then the person telling it is probably a heartless monster and it is probably not ok to tell it. Pretty much if a rapist could find it funny it is not a joke I want to hear.
I agree. I think it depends on the context. I saw Nicole Paone do stand up in San Francisco and she had a part about a “rape cop.” It was funny! So, in some instances- I guess, talking about rape can be funny.
I think it’s hilarious how everyone is offended by the rape part, but no one cares that they say punch a baby and kill a baby- which probably happens equally as often as rape in this country.
Continuing on from my comedy proof above, both those items conform to the Tragedy + Time = Funny formula.
Julie and Brandy are my favourite people and I don’t care that they said rape jokes and baby jokes are okay. That’s all.
re: rape jokes
a) what riese, anna, jezebel and wasteunit said.
b) i thought part of what made this so hilarious is that julie was ONLY pissed off about the homophobic jokes. like, how hilarious is it that supposedly that’s where her sense of humor ends — joke about rape or raping babies or donkey punching grandma and that’s allllll ok but do NOT make a joke out of anal sex b/c that’s sacred and unfunny. UMMM WAT. that’s fucking hilarious.
I have not seen Hot Tub Time machine nor read all the comments but some gay jokes are funny. period. sorry.
I think a large part of their frustration has to do not so much with gay jokes, but with so many bad gay jokes making it into a movie seen by a large, nationwide audience. Someone telling a bad gay joke at a party is just stupid, but the fact that really bad and stereotypical jokes made it into a major motion picture obviously is bringing out some rage. I’d be pissed, too, if I was in their shoes. I think the comments about who is ok to make fun of can be seen as offensive, but I don’t think they expect those persons to actually be the butt of jokes in mainstream movies anymore. The film industry is putting out lots of crap, and they are getting called on it.
well said meredith well said
I’m in a comedy club every week and see tons of stand-up. Most of the rape jokes I hear are said by women in such a way to point out the misogyny and/or predatory nature of men.
Most gay jokes are said by straight men and really have no point other than to expose the man in question’s homophobia.
Plus they are all the same. If I hear one more joke about how someone’s sissy roomate is “anal retentive”, I may die.
I really liked ‘Hot Tub Time Machine’, like, a lot. But whether dudes onscreen or offscreen are like ‘EW BRO, DON’T TOUCH ME’ I think they’re douchebags. Like, grow the eff up man. And that is why I liked drama school..no freak outs over FEEEEELIIINGS and man touching.
But I still liked the movie. Crack.up.
So I have no problem with gay jokes in general but when the jokes get insulting then I wanna punch someone. Seriousley this movie is guys @ my high school in a nutshell (yeah they act like that)… I can’t believe I’m the only grl who likes grls.
I know how you feel about the no-homo jokes. But I feel a similar way about the AIDS jokes and rape jokes, in fact I recently found these webisodes but fear re posting them and friends of mine who have been raped or sexually abused (statistacly thats 1 in 6) will have that same alienated icky feeling I have when I hear gay jokes.
doesn’t seem to be a very smart marketing ploy to then make those kinds of refrences….and they aren’t really even funny in the case i hear them on these webisodes- they are just sort of randomly thrown out words. like oh i don’t know what to say here “rape” “AIDS”
i don’t get the joke.
Yes, I agree. Like, I see ‘friends’ on facebook always just randomly saying “jew” “nazi” “hitler” and it’s like… what is funny about that? I’m not saying that you CAN’T make a funny joke about the holocaust (although I can’t imagine one) but it, in itself, is not funny.
If a joke is GOOD – it can be about anything.
*And that’s the bottom line.