Does the entire friend group really need to ostracize the cheater after a breakup?

Q:

Hey all. Sooooooo, my friend group is in a major crisis. My friend “Marilyn” (they/them) and their partner “Charlie” (she/her) recently broke up because Charlie cheated on Marilyn. They had been dating for many years, I’ve never known them apart, only as a couple, all the way back to when we all became friends. But it has become sooo very obvious to all of us that the relationship was not working anymore and they were both unhappy. Marilyn wanted Charlie to propose and Charlie was dragging her heels. Marilyn seemed very bossy and actually low key controlling of Charlie sometimes. Not to say Marilyn is a bad person!! They’re a sweet as fuck friend, so generous and loving, but they and Charlie really bring out the worst in each other.

Needless to say, it did not surprise anyone that Charlie cheated. It was a way out of the relationship. Now Marilyn is devastated and seems to have assumed that all of us will remain friends with them, and kick Charlie out of the friend group, the group chat and so on. They expect this from all of us and we’re over here like…. Wait but why??? Charlie did not cheat on us?? Charlie cheated on Marilyn. Of course I support Marilyn feeling betrayed and pissed.. That’s their business. We don’t want to lose or ostracize Charlie!! I understand Marilyn not wanting to be around Charlie right now and needing time to heal. But, they already kicked Charlie out of their apartment but also has Charlie still paying rent until the lease is up so I feel like Charlie has been punished enough for cheating.

How do we navigate this while respecting both of them needing space and not wanting to lose either of them as friends? We don’t want to do a group shun, that feels toxic to us.

Summer: I think it’s good that your group recognizes that casting Charlie out of the friend group, especially at Marilyn’s behest, is probably a bit much. Even though infidelity is a grave violation of trust and it probably does say something about a person…what it says about that person isn’t always a reason to ostracize them.

Likewise, I don’t think it’s fair that Marilyn wants to ask the group to follow their lead on a course of action that’ll probably be destructive to Charlie. It’s their right to feel the break in trust and loss of a relationship keenly. But for something that really doesn’t harm the group much, it shouldn’t have to lead to disruption in your life.

As to resolving this…I never believe that being sneaky or dishonest is a good way to take care of these conflicts. To me, things like telling Marilyn you’ll cut Charlie out and continuing to hang out with her to save everyone’s reputation is fraught with risk. And further erodes the trust necessary to maintain a relationship. I think you’ve already made the correct point in saying that this is about what happened in their relationship. And if Charlie’s actions make you see her in a worse light, that’s okay, but it’s up to everyone in the friend group to come to their own decision about how to treat Charlie.

When the topic arises, I think Marilyn would be best treated to a compassionate but firm understanding that they can’t make you break up with a friend just because their relationship disintegrated. As good friends, you’d always be open to listening to Marilyn’s side, supporting them through the grief of a lost relationship. But your agency and relationships also deserve to be respected.

Drew: Trying to keep both Marilyn and Charlie in your life is both the more difficult route and the correct one. It’s easy to respond to the awkwardness of a situation like this by turning on a friend who has made a mistake but not a mistake worthy of that kind of shunning. So, first of all, I just want to commend you and your friend group for that.

I really like what Summer said about being “compassionate but firm.” I also think it will help for Marilyn to know that you do not approve of Charlie’s actions. I think sometimes people want someone who harmed them to be ostracized because we live in a culture that only acknowledges harm through punishment. You can validate Marilyn’s hurt and their experience of harm while still making it clear that this mistake, while hurtful, does not mean Charlie won’t be in your life.

You can then figure out what boundaries work for all involved. Maybe Marilyn doesn’t want to hear about Charlie, so when you hang out, she’s an off-limit topic. Or maybe they do want to hear about her and you need to be the one to set the boundary against that kind of gossip that will, ultimately, be worse for Marilyn.

This might not be easy. Marilyn might not accept this right away or, possibly, ever. But I do think you’re making the right choice in wading through these tricky conversations.

Nico: Okay, I know this article is about divorce — but I feel pretty strongly about this kind of situation, especially in queer friend groups, and the kind of damage that stigmatizing one of the partners in a non-abusive breakup can have. Breakups are messy. The ends of relationships can bring out the worst in us, but it’s something most of us go through, and not something that we should lose community over. Should queer community really be that fragile? And yes, you all are so cool and right. A group shun would be toxic.

You are each going to have to ask yourself how you can show up and what boundaries will make you feel best. I do not recommend, if you want to stay friends with both, offering to listen to them vent. Venting about the close of a relationship is not for shared friends. If either Charlie or Marilyn do not have close friends of their own, then they should seek out a counselor or therapist, support group, or heck – forum on the internet. And you can suggest this to each of them, too, when you assert your boundaries. I know it can seem like what a person needs most is to vent, but do you really want to hear things you can’t unhear, or feel like you have to try and sort through what’s more “objectively true” while getting two biased perspectives? Instead, I recommend you make time to hang out with each of them 1:1 for now, or in small groups that are not the whole group. Maybe the rest of your friend group can make an emergency group chat about this if you haven’t already to make sure you’re coordinating. If you want, you could even find a spokesperson to kind of announce that the friend group would like to maintain both friendships and will not be taking sides. Then, you can also each think about ways you can support. Does Charlie need help with her new living situation? Does Marilyn need help finding a new place? What about distractions and fun or just watching a sad movie together and allowing space for grieving without accepting gossip about the other ex?

Over time, one of them might leave of their own accord, or they might have to negotiate taking turns at whole-friend-group hangs, or they might have to both attend but find a way to keep the peace — but that’s something I think those two should work out for themselves, and not something that, if you want to maintain ties with both, you would want to weigh in on.

The urge to punish is understandable from an emotional standpoint, but if we’re really going to hold ourselves to altering our minds and our praxis more towards an anti-carceral standpoint, then we need to think about things in terms of repair. It sounds like Charlie has given Marilyn space AND financial support. No one owes someone else participation in a romantic relationship, though, so by ending things, it’s not like either Charlie or Marilyn have a debt to the other aside from the way anyone else might divide up belongings and finances after living together. Cheating is hurtful, yes, but if we all had to pay some kind of friendship tithe as recompense for hurting another person’s feelings in a 1:1 romantic relationship, no one would have any friends. I’m wishing you all tons of luck in navigating this. It’s tumultuous and difficult, but I really admire your sticking to your values and with both of your friends.

When I have two friends in a bad breakup, I’ve gotten relatively adept at listening to and being there for each of them without allowing anything they tell me about their ex to impact how I view that ex — I really think that the way we show up when a relationship is falling apart, or when two people who were in love with each other no longer are (or one of them no longer is), is certainly not when we’re at our best! And there’s rarely an absolute truth to be found, both people are dealing with their whole psychological selves and their baggage that they’re projecting onto every situation. You have to make space for two things to be true at once, even if they contradict each other. Everyone walks away from a breakup with their own narrative. I’ve come out of emotionally abusive relationships having adopted all kinds of behaviors that hurt the next person I tried to love. It’s so complicated. I do think that humans are humans after all, and nobody really knows the truth of what’s going on in a relationship besides the people in it. I think when we jump to condemn one or the other person, it often says more about us — our own histories and hurts — than it does about either of them.

Major life changes have left me wondering who I am and what comes next! What do I even want??

Q:

Hey AS, I’m in my mid-30s, living in the same large city since college. Last summer I made a massive career change & quit my job of 7 years to go back to school FT, and a few months ago I broke up with my long-term live-in partner whom I still deeply loved when I suddenly woke up and could no longer repress knowing it was not meant to be.

I went from having a plan to not. There were many large life choices made based on a future that is now no longer happening.

I also have had a huge change in my friend group, half because they left the city during the pandemic, and the other half because they disowned me when I “came out” as an antizionist Jew. I have been putting myself out there to make new friends, be in community, etc…I’m not as lonely as I thought I would be, but I also feel like the shrug emoji.

I am very much in therapy, but I also feel like I need practical advice on what to do now, or how to decide what to do now. I am not a patient person, and while I know it’s impossible to expect to have things “figured out” (whatever that even means), I also wish I had any inkling. I love my new career but also have barely started it. I want to carry children & use my eggs, and I don’t have the money to freeze my eggs, and I hate that my biological clock is ticking… What the f*ck do I do? How do I approach daily life? Who am I? What do I want?

Love,
The Shrug Emoji

Summer: Hey Shrug Emoji. It sounds to me like you’re carrying the mountain that is too many life upheavals simultaneously. Most of us can handle sudden, major changes but when too much life happens at once, it’s really bad. Coupled with the simple fact that some of these disruptions were against your will and well-being, like the loss of friends? It’s no wonder things are tough. The fact that you’re here and trying speaks to your determination and that’s worth being proud of.

As far as my practicals go, I think the best thing to do is focus on the good in life and focus on the short term. Making a major career change is scary, but you decided on it and you love your new career, which is fantastic. Not many people can say that and that’s worth hanging onto. I think your first focus point is to focus your energy there. Putting energy and time into something you chose and also see meaning in will soften everything else. It’ll take up energy that’ll otherwise be diverted to anxiety.

As to your other dreams: we all have a remarkable ability to adapt and rebuild after setbacks. But we have to do these things one step at a time. I love that you have a specific plan for how you want to have children someday, but that’s probably not possible to do at the moment. Thinking on that during a time of upheaval will convert that impractical reality (for now) into anxiety right now. Our brains have this lovely way of turning things that shouldn’t even be a problem right now into acute terror. Seeing it happening is the best way to slow it down. I’m not telling you to give up on that goal. Far from it. I just think that right now, your life is feeling out of control because of too much stuff happening. So the first step to take is to find something you can control. Then grasp it and take it forward to the next stage.

Kayla: I think because you had so many sudden and intense changes happen all at once, something that could help mitigate your (understandable!) feelings of instability would be to introduce gradual adjustments and changes where you can. You didn’t have the luxury of gradual change when it came to a lot of these things, but you can harness gradual change now in areas that you do have control over. This could look like focusing on finding friendships before focusing on dating again (instead of tackling both simultaneously).

Also, if you need affirmation about your choices, they do indeed all sound like ultimately good things! You don’t want friends whose values don’t align with yours anyway, and ending a relationship is such a hard thing to do, and yet you did it, because you knew it would be the best thing in the long-term. Try zeroing in on the short-term now.

Nico: As a fellow mid-30’s life crisis sufferer, I just want you to know you’re not alone. One thing that I’ve found recently helpful, if you’re not doing it already, is spending time with people who are just a wee bit older — in their 40’s and 50’s — who might be willing to impart some guidance or offer perspective or wisdom. And it’s not just about their advice. It’s also about hearing their stories and seeing the way their lives have played out, how the choices they’ve made have impacted them. I think that right now you kind of have a kind of Freedom Paralysis. You could go anywhere, do anything, be anyone, now, right? You’ve unlocked a lot of new possibilities by moving, by leaving a relationship, by changing career paths. That is so much to process and it can be very hard for a brain to work through. So, yes, it will take time. You might feel more anchored and sure of what you want some days and then completely revert the next, especially when everything around us all is so uncertain.

What Kayla and Summer say above about gradual steps and taking it one day at a time make a lot of sense. I think you can also apply that to setting Future You up for when you know what you want. You might not have money to freeze your eggs now, but do you have a couple of less-important-to-you-than-future-baby costs you can cut now so you can start putting that money into some kind of “maybe baby” fund that you do not touch? Can you start teaching yourself a new skill or engaging in something that you know will help you later on in your new career? I love, too, that you’re being social. Throughout my major life upheavals recently, it’s been the friendships and relationships I’ve cultivated throughout said upheavals that have held me together. If you can find people to be vulnerable with, who can also be vulnerable with you, this might help you both to feel less “shrug” and it might give you some ideas, too.

Finally: this is the weirdest suggestion, but if you have any inkling of anything spiritual in your life, I’d give it a little attention. Whether you’re meditating or praying or doing some witchcraft, or even just contemplating in a very secular way — it can help to try and hone in on what you feel your purpose(s) are, or what you want them to be. How do you want to move through the world? How do you want to show up for others? What are sort of Big Picture themes that you desire — nesting and family, travel and adventure, creative fulfillment, romance, getting to the top of your career field, security and routine and stability, or total freedom and flexibility but with much more risk? Knowing a bit more about what major themes you envision in your “ideal” life can help guide you when making small decisions in your day-to-day. Above all, congratulations on shaking things up and good luck!

Before you go! Autostraddle runs on the reader support of our AF+ Members. If this article meant something to you today — if it informed you or made you smile or feel seen, will you consider joining AF and supporting the people who make this queer media site possible?

Join AF+!