I was working the polls on election day, handing people ballots and explaining how to fill them out properly. I made it my mission to come up with interesting uses for the removable tabs and entertain people for the 30 seconds that I had their captive attention. When 7 pm hit, people came in looking grim. “Did you hear about the polls?” they’d ask. “No,” I said, “but don’t tell me, I need to get through the next hour.” I guarded my polling location from news of what was happening because we still had to close – I still had to close – and needed to be able to focus without dealing with the sheer terror of reality.
I checked Twitter as I got in my Lyft back home. Shock bombarded and horror filled me as I scrolled through my timeline. I hoped the panic would vanish once the CA votes were counted. It didn’t. Slowly the new reality set in – the one where I wake up horrified and lose more of my basic human rights every day. The one where I wake up and am reminded that I was prepared for this, I saw this coming, I know what’s happening.
I grew up in the far-right evangelical conservative (Christofascist) movement; specifically, I was homeschooled and my parents were part of a subculture called Quiverfull, whose aim is to outbreed everyone for Jesus. I spent my teen years being a political activist. I was taught by every pastor I encountered that it was our job as Christians to outbreed the secularists (anyone not a far-right evangelical Protestant) and take over the government through sheer numbers. I was part of TeenPact, Generation Joshua and my local Teenage Republicans (TARS).
When the Tea Party rose in 2009, that was my culture. The Tea Party was step one. I was laying the groundwork for those elections in 2006. These people didn’t come out of the blue like it seemed. This plan, this Christofascist takeover of the US government, has been in the works for decades. When evangelical conservatism started becoming popular and more mainstream around the 1970s, the foundation was being laid for the tragedy playing out right now.
Evangelical conservatives started taking over their local republican parties and founding organizations like Operation Rescue, Homeschool Legal Defense Association, Family Research Council and Focus on the Family, just to name a few.
Via hslda.org
Michael Farris founded HSLDA in 1983 as a way to ensure that homeschooling was legal, but what he’s been striving for is the wild west. His organization is trying to keep homeschooling away from any interference so the children he trains through his sister organization, Generation Joshua, would be able to fly under the radar. Generation Joshua started in 2003, primarily catering to children homeschooled by extremely religious rightwing adults. Its purpose was to train us to fight in what the Christofascists have been calling the “Culture Wars.” It’s a loose and ambiguous term that basically means anything or anyone that doesn’t align with this very specific view of Christianity must not be allowed to continue.
Mission statements of GenJ, TeenPact, NCFCA, CFC
How do you do that? Well, you overturn Roe v. Wade, Griswold v. Connecticut, Brown v. Board of Education and Bob Jones v. The United States. Each of these decisions currently protects reproductive rights or non-discrimination based on race. As retribution, you amend the Constitution to discriminate against queers, trans people, women and people of color. Then, you make laws legislating morality. The only way to do this is to infiltrate the government; so Generation Joshua, TeenPact and other organizations exist to indoctrinate and recruit homeschooled youth who have ample free time to participate in politics. The biggest resources for teaching civil discourse are the National Christian Forensics and Communications Association and Communicators for Christ (since renamed Institute for Cultural Communicators). Through these programs we learned how to argue effectively. As students, we were taught critical thinking skills but given only a narrow view of what was acceptable to argue for. We were, after all, being trained to take over the country for Christ, literally. We knew how to perform logical gymnastics about abortion, Christianity and any evangelical talking point you could throw at us.
When we showed up to city council, local political party meetings and tours of the Capitol we asked intelligent questions, were respectful and had a vested interest in how our local political machine ran. We impressed every government official and staff member with our questions, earnesty and demeanor. In short, we were sneaky and polite Trojan horses; we had an agenda. Yes, even as 15-year-olds. It was forcefully handed to us by the adults in our lives who had been preparing for this since before we were born.
I watched the Tea Party takeover and was surprised no one saw it coming. After all, this was part of the plan. Trump being elected is also part of the plan, although not Trump specifically; the true goal is Pence.
Christofascists have been wanting someone like Pence in the White House and, until now, didn’t have a way to get one in. They know Trump is easily manipulated and will change his mind with the wind if it makes him feel more powerful and famous. Trump couldn’t care less about policy, a fact he’s made quite obvious. The Right has given a tyrant power and fame; he will do whatever they want him to do in order to keep it. This way they can sneak Pence in on a piggyback while filling Congress with even more evangelical conservative Republicans. Compared to Trump’s abrasive and terrifying behavior, Pence seems much less threatening. This is not the case. Pence has a proven track record of legalizing discrimination and acting against women and marginalized people. Those of us who didn’t leave the far Right are being elected to federal positions or are taking over states and cities. With Pence in office, even the reasonable-seeming incumbents – who have been and are still at the mercy of the Tea Party – are growing more bold in their attempts to further the Christofascist agenda: To Take Back The Country For Christ.
This was the mantra we heard. This was our mission. This is how we were to win: Outbreed, Outvote, Outactivate. Every class, every event, every pastor or guest speaker reiterated this, choosing to risk the 501c3 status of their church to push their agenda. To take back the country for Christ, we needed to outbreed, outvote and outactivate the other side, thus saith The Lord.
Meanwhile, mainstream Democrats shake their heads in confusion and fundamentally misunderstand the meaning of grassroots organizing, which is where all of this happens. Republicans have a vast network of homeschoolers that HSLDA and others have given them to tap into as a source of free labor. Republicans in state governments are lax on homeschooling oversight because their Get Out The Vote base is made of homeschoolers thanks to Generation Joshua and Teenpact.
Via Generation Joshua
Homeschoolers may make up a small portion of students as a whole, but they are loud, have time and can be activated with one email blast. When HR6 was brought to Congress in 1994, homeschool families realized their power. With an alert from HSLDA, homeschool families flooded the lines of Congress demanding that they exclude private, home and religious schools from the bill. They succeeded. The reach of HSLDA to activate the homeschool community has only grown since then. We are the secret no one knew about and it’s time to come to light. Homeschoolers are a huge reason for the evangelical conservative takeover we’ve seen over the last decade or so; it would be a mistake to write them off.
Self-proclaimed constitutional lawyer Michael Farris, the founder of HSLDA, and revisionist historian David Barton have spent years twisting their interpretation of the U.S. Constitution as some kind of God-breathed document into the minds of parents and their families who will just believe what they say because they’re “Good Christians.” They don’t necessarily practice critical thought, are dissuaded from looking at the Constitution themselves without a law degree and don’t bother to read history from all angles, relying only on the whitewashed Christian versions of the Constitution and our founding.
If you’re thinking that declaring the nation a Christian one and turning into a theocracy is a ludicrous idea that has no basis in our constitution, you’d be correct. However, Christofascists have imbibed this theory and now believe it is their Christian duty to save the country from its secular ways in the name of religious freedom. In this worldview, any non-Christian (including Catholics and Jews) is doomed to eternal torture if they don’t convert. Thus, we are all going to hell in a handbasket if “good Christians” don’t save the country from the liberals who think people should just “do what they want regardless of what God says.” Their religious extremism is worse than any group they fearmonger over, but the irony is lost on them.
Evangelical conservatives are convinced that their agenda will save the country from God-ordained death. Pat Robertson and many others believe that natural disasters are sent from God specifically to punish America for letting marginalized people have rights and be alive. This motivates them to do everything in their power to “save” the country from the ungodly – even, maybe especially – if it involves stripping others of the freedoms they deem to be against God’s wishes. They don’t care if their war for Christ hurts humans they see as living wrongfully, because they are capital “R” Right and that’s what matters. Their Rightness, they believe, comes from God Himself. Their beliefs are callous and without empathy, prioritizing dogma over people. These beliefs are dangerous. Many of us who have come out as queer, trans, or even merely gone to college, have lost family because of this worldview. A single powerful person who is convinced of their own Rightness with no thought of introspection is dangerous. We now have a government full of them.
It is important to understand that they are coming at this from a place of passion and dedication. They have a fire in their bellies. While it looks like a bunch of backwoods hillbillies playing with guns to anyone outside, they are resilient and in it for the long haul. They want America to succeed, but in their America there isn’t room for anyone unlike them. There’s a reason Trump’s mantra stuck despite his deplorable behaviour. They think America was founded on conservative Protestant ideals because that’s what they’ve been fed, because that’s what aligns with their interpretation of the Bible and they will not go down without a fight.
They are scared of anything newer than the 18th century; you can’t logic the fear of change away from people. If you do no research and are instead predisposed to the belief that older is better, it’s easy to think the Puritans were good and wholesome. People wore funny hats, were conservative and hated science. Church was basically mandatory and women weren’t allowed to speak or be autonomous people. These are all comforting things for people who feel as though the world is against them because of their religion, rather than the fact that their views and actions are bigoted, racist and actively harmful to millions of other humans. You cannot be this version of evangelical and not force your beliefs on others. Failing to convert is a failure on you and your dedication to your faith. This religion is based entirely on fear; you can’t argue away a fear so intense that it hardens you to anyone unlike you or your tribe.
They will not be won over with sit-downs and respectability politics. This kind of dogma cannot be reasoned with; it must be fought against. Trying to convince them to come to the other side is a waste of time unless they’ve already started on that journey themselves. The ones in power, actively harming our lives, are past this point. We can only fight back.
The revolution has come and we are the resistance.
Well, that was far and away the most horrifying thing I’ve read in what has essentially been a year of daily horrors.
Wow!! I think this is a little extreme, biased and a huge stereotype.. 1 st… not all homeschoolers are Christian… in fact, many are liberal, many fight to protect these very rights you are claiming “homeschoolers” are trying to take away.. I am Christian and a member of hslda and have had none of the experiences you speak of in church or with hslda. This is really your personal opionion and not factual. We have enough stereotypes to overcome, we dint need a political one too
I’m glad you’re having a positive experience, but some of the stuff HSLDA’s lobbied for hurt a lot of people. HSLDA argued against the ratification of the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and Farris was instrumental in rejecting the ERA because he said it would lead to gay marriage
HSLDA and Michael Farris are among the most significant reasons why we’ve never ratified the UN’s Rights of the Child, too.
They’ve defended homeschoolers who locked their children up in cages and called them “heroes.” The sent out fear-mongering materials about CPS that were outright falsehoods that kept most of the kids I knew who were being abused afraid of ever reporting. These kids who were being beaten with actual cricket bats saw the HSLDA warnings about CPS on their fridge and thought the CPS would be worse than being violently beaten multiple times a day.
Glad you’re not experiencing the HSLDA negatively, but they’ve been the direct cause behind a lot of suffering and your positive experience doesn’t negate that at all.
Ok most of the concepts and subjects of controversy described here I’m pretty familiar with, but what exactly is CPS?
Child Protective Services
Whoops, replace “your personal opinion” with “your personal experience.” You have an experience that differed from the writer’s, and both of your experiences are valid.
Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it’s not true. Have you read all the Court Reports? Have you heard Michael Farris or any of the pther HSLDA leaders speak? Because I have.
I’ve been in audience as Farris talked about Christian homeschoolers needing to outbreed the rest of the population so homeschooled kids could take over government. I spent years reading my parent’s copy of the Court Report, as HSLDA charted out their plans and as they spelled out the discriminatory intent behind the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which Farris wrote. I’ve linked to documentation below.
I’ve also been in the audience where Farris wrote off his homeschool alumni critics as atheists and open homosexuals, which was supposed to be enough proof to the audience of conservative Christian homeschool moms that we were not to be listened to.
That’s what HSLDA is, that’s who Michael Farris is, and they’re using homeschool parents and children to achieve a political goal of theocratic domination of American politics.
http://kathrynbrightbill.com/2015/03/31/original-rfra-drafter-admits-discriminatory-intent/
Yes ! Ty , completely agree
Oh my god. The fact that some member of this HSLDA is commenting and defending it – further scary proof.
Homeschooling should be flat out illegal.
Nicole is a liar. I grew up Christian. I have met many Christians. I also grew up in homeschool, in private Christian schools, etc. If you believe that your institution doesn’t support this stuff, it’s not because “they’re all different,” it’s because you’re still brainwashed to believe it. Admit it: you’re a Republican. You conveniently left that part out. That’s what deceivers like you do. Yes, there are Christians who don’t “believe” in the right wing propaganda, but it’s usually only because they’re COMPLETELY ignorant about the political activities of their churches and fellow church members and leaders, NOT because they oppose far right political philosophy.
Nicole – Well, *somebody* is voting for right-wing, socially intolerant politicians like Mike Pence who want to criminalize consensual behavior among adults that they disagree with, so I think there’s definitely some truth to the political stereotype. There are some in the Christian and homeschool communities who want to use government to make other people conform to their version of morality.
However I will also vouch for the truth of your statement that “not all homeschoolers are Christian… in fact, many are liberal, many fight to protect these very rights you are claiming ‘homeschoolers’ are trying to take away.”
The author does paint homeschooling with too broad a brush. For a look at the other side(s) of the homeschooling community, check out these 29 homeschooling groups listed on Meetup in the San Francisco Bay Area, most of which look neither conservative nor Christian (and some I can personally attest are not):
https://www.meetup.com/find/?allMeetups=false&keywords=homeschool&radius=25&userFreeform=San+Francisco%2C+CA&mcId=z94102&mcName=San+Francisco%2C+CA&sort=recommended&eventFilter=mysugg
I grew up very similarly in homeschooled fundamentalism and HSLDA and Michael Ferriss were daily parts of my environment. Very similarly to you I escaped into rationality and a lifestyle of kindness. Kudos to you for standing up to these forces. Sadly redolent of Maajid Nawaz’s memoirs. How hypocritical of the conservatives to create fear about Muslims infiltrating government when it is they who are doing so. I hope reason, truth, and kindness win in this great struggle at the turn of the century. Perhaps Yeats was onto something, and fascism is that strange new beast that slouches round every century. Solidarity!
Good for you for seeing this from a different point of view. Wow. Even my father asked me why I changed at the age of 19 so long ago My answer was, ” Because it didn’t make sense.” Good people are everywhere. I found them outside of the Christian belief system. And on that note, I refuse to join a church because I have LGBT in my extended family. I tell them exactly that and they leave me without discussion. Time for us to be the resistance. I’ll be there in a blink of an eye.
Right? That was excellent and terrifying, kind of like “Going Clear.”
Damn- well said! I’m a 34 year old woman who “left the church” 17ish years ago. I can attest to this young lady’s experience. While not homeschooled, many kids in our church were. I have family that believe this almost to a T. There is no reasoning with someone who owns the Truth. For reals. This shit is as real as it is scary because now they own almost every aspect of our federal government and many of our local governments. But yet….I’m going to fuck’n March and call and write and speak openly about how this isn’t Gids love- this is their Bigotry.
and NOT the majority of we, Christians, who have a personal relationship with God. We may home school, but for good reasons!
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Nah, I owe nothing to the people who abused .E or people who defend them and think I should be punished for my queerness, thanks tho
Also, thank you very much for proving my entire point.
I can’t just _get along_ with people who think I should be dead/punished/tortured because I’m queer and trans, and who say that as though it’s matter-of-fact.
<3
Okay – a lot to unpack there in AJ’s ‘comment’
First – The author (Keiryn) isn’t a woman, everyone here needs to understand and respect this. Stop using ‘she/her’
Second: I’m just going to break this transparent act of manipulation and abuse down for you all
First point – throughout we have a bunch of false and entirely disingenuous nods to ‘respectability’ and ‘politeness’ that are supposed to influence readers to believe ‘AJ’ is a reasonable and respectable person and not *at all* attacking the author
These respectability dogwhistles are deployed solely to provide a negative comparison to the author ‘look how reasonable and nice I am, and after the author was SO MEAN AND UNREASONABLE’
You can tell this from how almost every respectability phrase is coupled with either derision or an accusation of misbehavior or misrepresentation on the authors behalf
eg. “Apparently she had a miserable time in that home. So sorry to hear it!” (n’aww, look how nice I am, how much compassion!)
“Just want to say that I am one of those home-school parents, and belong to some of those organizations, and she paints an extreme and in many ways false and destructive portrait” (Now that I’ve shown you all how compassionate I am, I want to emphasize the author is LYING in order to DESTROY me)
The next paragraph pretty much follows the same pattern – ‘grants’ others a veiwpoint, then deploys sarcasm to again emphasize the author LIES.
Then, and this is fun, the sheer arrogance and overweening pride here means AJ starts breaking cover and being more revealing. The ‘apologies’ become openly snide and the rhetoric of Christofascism starts to bleed through:
eg. “grow our own food, and other people’s, raise multiple usually happy (sorry Kieryn) children to be kind and hardworking children of God”
Hardworking Children of God – hmm, what does that remind us of?
The wonderful moment of mishandling this attempt to gaslight, shame, and derail Keiryns testimony comes next in this paragraph. Particularly note words like ‘vision’ ‘train’ ‘God given role as citizens’ ‘promote order and decency’
“We have a vision, we act on it, we train our children, and we generally don’t try to interfere with other people except in our God-given role as citizens… Yes we want laws that promote order and decency”
Considering the article this is in response to, this confirms and serves to solidify Kieryn’s testimony and experience, and that of the many respondents to this piece. This parent is outright stating that thier children are being TRAINED in their GOD GIVEN ROLE AS CITIZENS in order to promote what they believe is ORDER AND DECENCY’ and we all know what that means for anyone not them.
This kindof deteriorates after this into the general confused rhetoric we’d expect and is mostly abuser phrases meant to further undermine Keiryn and people who agree with the article:
“you dont want to live in the dystopia that video games make seem so wild and fun. Believe me, please.” (look how these young people who are younger did I mention YOUNG they just think the world should be like video games they don’t know what they are saying because YOUNG)
followed by pretty much ‘we can’t help discriminating against homosexuals the Bible says so’ which I don’t even need to address because thousands of theologians and others have already done so
The ‘homosexual agenda’ (we’re bored of this one)
as for “no one wants to hurt [you]” that’s pure abuser gaslighting and pretty much expected from a member of the organization that’s invested in children not being able to recognize or flee their abuse
This is extremely revealing though:”But as for me and my church, we like love and kindness too, and will cleave to those when and if times get tough”
Because it outright slips and admits love and kindness are NOT what they’re cleaving to now.
“Let’s do our best to get along” is another respectability dog whistle meant to conclude with another attempt to show you how nice and reasonable this person is, compared to Keiryn, who is being DIVISIVE!!
And rather ruined by the end bit, which AJ doesn’t seem to realize is going to look like a plain attempt to injure by any abuse survivor forever ever: “Forgive your parents and treat them with as much kindness as you can muster. God is at your side!”
This person, knowing Keiryn’s history, is deploying a number of Christofascist morals to (silently, they think) accuse them of sinning against God and a nasty ominous little reminder that God is always there and ready to judge them.
This person just proved everything Keiryn is saying and writing about this movement with one disgusting lot of transparent, abusive, awful rhetoric
Congratz.
We have a vision, we act on it, we train our children, and we generally don’t try to interfere with other people except in our God-given role as citizens. No we don’t want laws that allow or worse yet make us fund abortion. Sorry it’s abhorrent. Yes we want laws that promote order and decency and frankly you dont want to live in the dystopia that video games make seem so wild and fun
ugh um… forgot to delete the last bit, I had the comment in screen for eaze, I am disabled and spoons are low… :/
Wyrd_dragon,
You expressed my thoughts about AJ’S comment perfectly! If you grew up up around “fundamentalists” who abuse children “in the name of God”, you can see right through the manipulation. It’s people like that who make me utterly I’ll.
Kieryn, I hate that you endured years of abuse and brain washing, but i am extremely happy that you managed to get out. As a queen who experienced similar circumstances, I feel for you. You are not alone. ❤
Ok, I didn’t grow up with the authors life, but I DID grow up in a fundamental Baptist church and school. They aren’t wrong. Fundamentalists DO advocate “taking back the country for God”. And they don’t really care who gets kicked in the teeth while they are doing it.
Pence, btw, is pro-conversion-therapy. It’s been outlawed by nearly every modern country and is widely considered to be little more than torture, and yet you say he doesn’t want them hurt. He just wants them tortured, told they have no righrs, can’t marry, adopt, or show affection to their partner. Getting married isn’t “flaunting a lifestyle”. My neighbor getting married to her female partner forces absolutely nothing on me.
You want laws based on YOUR religion and wonder why everyone else isn’t good with that.
Oh, and you don’t get to decide where your taxes go. I hate war, and yet my taxes go to fund a plethora of them.
ditto. legitimately terrified. vive la revalucion!
I live in Georgia, as a bleeding heart liberal. I have been watching this, knowing on some level what was happening, and still somehow underestimated the sheer tenacity of christo fascists.
This election at least has energized many of us who believe in equality for all with a strong protection of secular government.
I’m all in now. Thank you for sharing this excellent personal account.
It’s a good thing Trump spent his life as a worldly liberal democrat, grabbin’ dem pussies then. Hail Satan!!
It’s a good thing we have “salvation” to virtue signal to other extremists when we can begin to delineate one’s behavior from their lifelong patterns, as if their magical experience somehow redeems trash like Trump
Terrifying, but empowering because we better see anf understand what we are up against. Time to pull armies of diversity, acceptance and love together to break this tide.
Very religious groups are nothing to fart around with. The very orthodox Jews do the same thing — they separate their kids from the non-Orthodox Jews, they isolate their kids and they do not send them to public schools.
Everything is done in a neighborhood yeshiva or one that is larger and in some other town.
I have heard that the girls and boys get only the basic ABCs and the rest is rigid faith immersement.
I have heard also that corporal punishment is off the charts in those schools and at home. I would not doubt that spousal abuse is an everyday thing and most nearly the norm.
I wish you’d limit yourself to what you know first-hand, and not slander entire groups based on what you’ve “heard” and “would not doubt.” There’s plenty of misogyny in ultra-Orthodox Judaism. But, for one thing — ironically enough — girls actually get a much better secular education than boys in the kind of schools you’re talking about, because they’re not expected to spend all their time studying Torah and Talmud. Second, of course spousal abuse occurs. But, unlike with Christianity, spousal abuse and marital rape have been strictly prohibited in Judaism for the last thousand years. I’m not saying the prohibitions are always honored, but at least those who do it can’t justify it by pointing to their religion. Finally, there’s no agenda to take over the country. Obviously!
Here comes the Right Wing Christian Jihad – Right Wing Christian being a contradiction in terms certainly if you are claiming to be a New Testament Christian. More dangerous than ISIS.
Best comment: “I don’t mean to insult, but this essay is so exaggerated and over the top, a diatribe that promotes a Machiavellian plot onto a group that is little different than any group trying to live their beliefs and promote what they believe to be the best world view for how to live as human in a temporal world. How is what they are doing different from everyone else? LGBT groups promote their worldview and are activists in politics. Climate change acolytes have their priests and are activists in politics. There are mermaids and pirates who want to be taken seriously. Every group wants a piece of the identity-rights pie. It amazes me that anyone can get paranoid and upset at Christians who at their most extreme lament sex outside marriage or what they consider deviant sex or taking a life in the womb, which they consider wrong (it kinda is), or having bathrooms just for boys and girls. Horrors! That’s about as bad as it gets, folks. Some may wag their figurative fingers and want you to feel guilty, but you can say no thanks and go about your business. They are not sending sinners to the gulag, no beheadings here, no gays tossed off buildings, no burning folks alive for blasphemy.
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Moderators please remove this comment (racism)
queer girl, I don’t like the demonization of Muslims either, but let’s not censor please. The best response to ignorant or hateful speech is free and open debate. There are some good comments here about the dangers of driving such views underground.
Starchild, the comment was deleted and hateful comments like that always will be because they’re actually not productive at all towards open and free debate. Please check out the comment policy if you’d like to learn more.
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Jeffrey Zekas… if Fundamentalist Christian’s just wanted to live their lives and not be persecuted for their beliefs, just like the other groups you referenced, they’d have no issues. the problem is they try to force them onto people who don’t believe what they believe. If gay people were fighting that EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE GAY, that would be an issue. But they’re not. You’re missing a very important piece to this puzzle here.
I completely agree with Allison… … thank you!
Literally so terrified I don’t think I can read news again for the rest of my life basically. WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?!?
Been there (and out). Sounds completely familiar. Let’s not forget that there is also an unscrupulous group of secular power seekers who are willing to use evangelicals for their own agenda. Blind devotion also makes you easily manipulated with the right vocabulary.
Indeed
The book Holy Terror wrote all about this and warned us in the 80s.
So many people just dismissed it.
yikes.
Interesting insight. Bless you for sharing. It clears up a bunch of my confusion.
Same.
wow this was so informative and important.
Thank you for speaking up, Kieryn. This is absolutely terrifying, but knowledge is power, and it’s so important that we learn about this.
Kieryn, your story is important, I implore you to amplify it as much ax possible and I will lend my voice and access to do the same. An alarm must be sounded.
Can I premise this by saying that I am FOR a majority of what you are saying here. There is a type of simplification that comes with a certain subset of religious ideology, but the last paragraph alarmed me a bit.
“They will not be won over with sit-downs and respectability politics. This kind of dogma cannot be reasoned with; it must be fought against. Trying to convince them to come to the other side is a waste of time unless they’ve already started on that journey themselves. The ones in power, actively harming our lives, are past this point. We can only fight back.”
If I were reading this out of context, it seems a lot like the mantra that some of those same people use to discriminate against people who come from a non-Christian background. I’m speaking specifically about Islam, but I don’t think the language is exclusive to Islam.
This is a question I raise out of a strong desire for discussion and clarity. What is the difference between painting with this broad brush and the painting that the far right has done of other religious view points with their broad brush?
Also, I can not stress enough the amount of grief that I’ve felt daily since Donald Trump was elected as the next president in November.
This is something I struggle with because I am also someone who comes from a family that has very right leaning view points, though not quite with the mantra that you’re speaking of here, Kieryn. I know what it feels like to try to reason with some people that hold these beliefs.
I just question what this fight looks like, you know?
I’ll be going into more detail about that in a follow up, but largely it looks like getting involved at the grassroots level, in your community, fighting for housing, healthcare, transit, education, etc. Directly changing the things we can control and not spending time trying to convince the unconvincible.
It might feel like a large brush but it’s not, nor is it inaccurate. Alot of religions have similar dogma, you’re right. Any religion that attempts to oppress people through government needs to be fought against. The religious right have been planning this decades before I was born, they’re sold on it… They’re succeeding even. The only way to stop it is to get involved ourselves.
Thank you for both of your responses, Kieryn. I’ll be looking forward to your follow up!
Thanks for your insight!
Thank you for writing this, it’s terrifying and enlightening at the same time. Had I not read the comments I would almost have though this to be perhaps.. inauthentic.. I have inlaws/family like this and I feel this level of intense Rightness is just under the surface of their very polite and friendly manner. I agree that the fight is a loud and point for point counter, a challenge at every assertion..
I call what you’re describing a cult. I’ve never trusted them. I totally get what you’re saying and thank you for saying it. I have found them suspecious for a long time. In fact there are books on this subject that any library will be happy to provide.
Kieryn, This article has been posted twice in my Facebook feed today, so congrats. I homeschooled two of my kids during middle and high school years (mostly un-schooling with a lot of travel for historical and cultural reasons). We did “hang” on occasion with the Quiverfull Christians for socializing, but that was all. What I’m most curious about is how you got out and got some perspective. This broad brush talk would have included you, and I’m wondering about your journey out of this kind of life. I was a homeschool Mama on the other side, and I sometimes worried about these kids ever finding their own way in the world. Seems you did, and I’m so happy. For context, I’m a mom of a Trans son who would consider himself a Christian, a Christian daughter and a Jewish daughter. My husband (Jewish culture) and I are both Agnostic. Great, super informative essay. I look forward to reading more from you!
I am grateful you posted this! I appreciated this article, and was left wondering how Kieryn came to question and eventually turn her back on this culture. I think it would be good stuff for a follow up piece!
I’m glad to see this comment, and find another person that was slightly afraid of the rhetoric in the last paragraph. While I do believe that our level of activism should match that of the alt right that brought the currency presidency to fruition, I am afraid that the rhetoric of the last paragraph evokes a culture-war feel, albeit from the other side.
All I can speak from is my experience, so I wouldn’t presume to have the right answer to any of this, but there is a chance inducing fear through an article and villianizing a people group won’t effectively equip the left the engage the right with the demeanor necessary to be persuasive. If we can’t out logic the alt right because they are brainwashed to be closed to reason, then we have to out *love* the right. The only change I have seen from my extremely conservative family and relatively conservative family is through extended periods of close proximity. Loving them well despite our (extreme) differences is what l brought about my change in my circles. I wouldn’t presume that to be the answer for everybody, but I am afraid of creating fear and an us vs them fighting feel.
In my experience also, vilifying them has never changed their minds. Extending love and kindness across tremendous differences is so hard sometimes but has been more effective at getting people to reevaluate their ingrained prejudices than anything else I’ve found. Thanks for the insight.
Check out the book “The Family” by Jeff Sharlet. It’s a bit of a dry read but it’s very informative. According to his book, this movement goes back to the 1930’s.
Thank you so much for writing this article I think it’s so important. Sorry about your family I know what it’s like to be estranged from family because of political beliefs.
It looks to me, like a call to ‘out’ zealotry and fundamentism, wherever it rears its head. It’s something we all need to do, I think.
And I doubt very, very seriously that “extending love and kindness across tremendous differences” will accomplish anything constructive. People might need to believe that but they’ve needed to believe it before about a similar movement — and it didn’t end well.
Totally valid.
I was hesitant to even ask this question, because I know it is a complicated one with a lot of nuance.
I have found refuge in the AS community and I come here to learn and grow. What I’m seeking is a sincere discussion about the language we use. Religious ideology is so sticky and it has been vastly oversimplified and abused by people in power.
How does one truly change that though?
I ask because if we don’t have the framework for this fight, how can I talk about it?
I really want to be a part of this fight, but I don’t know how. I’ve been taught to use reason and I don’t know how to be part of a conversation that eliminates it.
That’s fair, it goes against everything we know about civil discourse.
Our fight doesn’t look like punching them (tho I won’t stop anyone from it) it’s more activating against everything they are activating for. So protecting planned Parenthood when they dismantle it. We’re not going to win them over, so we shouldn’t be focused on dialoguing with them; rather, being more engaged in our communities and replicating as many social services on a local level as we can
“I’ve been taught to use reason and I don’t know how to be part of a conversation that eliminates it.”
I feel like this is EXACTLY where our movement is stuck right now.
Someone tweeted a few days ago something along the lines of, “it’s like the Democrats and Republicans sat down in a house to play Monopoly, and then the Republicans said “fuck it” and set fire to the house, but the Democrats are still sitting there, in the burning house, playing Monopoly.”
We need a new mindset. We need to quell the fire, but we also need a strategy for future fires. This is not Friday game night, this is an emergency.
I agree with the sentiments in this piece. I was an evangelical Christian for 35 years- now an atheist. You can’t reason someone out of something that they didn’t come into through reason. They are intoxicated by their certainty- it’s the drug they sell. Reason and logic are not part of their lexicon.
The Christians Kieryn is talking about are a tiny minority of Christians. Kieryn isn’t saying all Christians are like that. Kieryn is saying specific movements inside Christianity are doing this. Evangelical conservatives are a minority of Americans (though a large one) and the people Kieryn calls Christofascists are a smaller portion of conservative Evangelicals. At no point does the article claim all Christians or all conservatives or even all homeschoolers are part of this subculture.
Oh but most if not many christians can easily be converted to more radical belief, if they too are at risk of losing it all. Let’s never underestimate our enemies strength
Not just in America, it’s been happening over the last 30 or more years, to a lesser extent in Australia too (it’s just starting to “payoff” politically in our Parliament for a subgroup of the Liberal Party. This is probably happening in other Anglephone Protestant countries as well and non Protestant countries probably have their own versions, having seen how effective it’s been.
Yes! I have a friend who moved here from Australia and their experience mirrors mine very closely!
The bottom line is they are willing to let us die, starve, kill ourselves, never reproduce. How long are we willing to argue ideology, rather than fight?
this isn’t a broad brush. this is a fine brush with specific details about people who have infiltrated our government and are actively destroying everything we hold dear as we speak. big difference. RESIST!
What you are doing here with your seemingly respectable questions is a form of gaslighting. You are “nicely” attempting to equate this person’s legitimate fear and anger at these people whose _entire lives_ are aimed at creating injustice for others, with the bigotry of those same people.
I agree. Felt as though I was listening to ex mother in law. I think she’s one of them
The difference would be targeting extremists. She’s not saying ALL Christians. The Far Right does demonize ALL ‘muslims’ when meaning ISIS or extremists of Islam. No I do see that this is tricky territory. How do we tell the difference between what is ‘extreme’ and what is ‘normal level religious belief’. I’m not sure the answer to that, but I would think that on some level it would be to swear in on the understanding that the USA was founded on the FREEDOM of religion and not of any one faith. This is a fact and it needs to be ingrained into our society. Religion is not bad, but religion with a political agenda is. Always.
Normal level of religious belief doesn’t try to take over the country, I think is a good starting point.
Rick Santorum for example is a right wing radical Catholic ideologue while most Catholics are socially liberal.
You are absolutely correct. I am a Christian. I am NOT a zealot, and I fight against those who call themselves “Christian” while taking away anyone’s rights. There are many like me, and we are finally beginning to find our voice. Better late than never.
The logical flaw is that your assumption may be that fundamentalist Christianity is in any particular different from fundamentalist Islam. In order for a monotheism to be right, all others must be wrong. They are remarkably similar in that respect and “discrimination” is not a bad thing when it accurately describes a world view that will never stop until all other world views are subsumed under it.
The difference is that as a largely rational, deity-free human, I am aware that I can’t make a robot for Christ/Allah/random Bronze Age figment into a rational person using rationality. So I don’t try. God-addled people will, by contrast, never cease to convert me. Or kill me should I prove “possessed by Satan” because I do not share their delusions.
I’ve long believed that religion of this sort is like any other psychologically rooted addiction: you can’t talk people out of it. They have to want to leave it behind, and the nature of the God delusion is such that few will even have the idea of abandoning a faith-based world view occur to them. The presence of such people in a democracy is antithetical to the democracy: such people cannot bear that others think differently to them or live in a world without their flavour of deity, which is far more compelling a concept than this world, which is, in their conception, a vat of sin and corruption, could ever be. Whether these appraisals will ever occur to those of a humanistic, rational tendencies is unclear, because it leads to some uncomfortable conclusions.
“They are remarkably similar in that respect and “discrimination” is not a bad thing when it accurately describes a world view that will never stop until all other world views are subsumed under it.”
Thank you for pointing this out.
I don’t know that I agree with everything in the piece, but to answer your concern that the piece sounds like what others say to oppress other religions, let me offer an alternative view. Perhaps the reason this sounds like other anti-religious positions is that it IS the only effective to response to fanatics of all religions, not any religion per se. Whether you’re talking about extreme Muslims or extreme Christians, they represent a fundamental threat to a diverse and harmonious society and cannot be reasoned with and must merely be prevented from gaining power. The difficult question is ‘what do you do with religious extremists (or any extremists) who are beyond reason and hell bent on imposing their life on society at large?’ They are an anathema to a happier world, but our own standards demand we tolerate them. I guess we are engaged in a long-term and perhaps endless war of ideas where we hope to eventually convert the dogmatic and unthinking into at least tolerant.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Michael!
I agree. The problem right now, however, is they have been given the keys to the kingdom. We don’t have the liberty to be nice. As another poster says, this is an emergency.
It’s the people who have gained the power and are now imposing their fundamentalist views on the rest of us that we must fight. The people who have voted them into power also have to be confronted, and the power of the vote taken back and exercised by all of us. No more sitting out elections and allowing gerrymandering and private-source voting machines.
The difference is that these people are a racial and religious majority actively trying to enact religious law and strip minorities of their civil rights right now, here. When they say that we have to fight back against Muslims, they are talking about “fighting back” against an already oppressed minority who are trying to mind their own business.
It’s right to fight an aggressor actively threatening you and others. It’s wrong to pummel someone smaller than you to gain power.
Great point and thank you for your reply!
I don’t read this as discrimination or painting with a broad brush. I think it’s a sad but informed statement of reality from someone who really knows. Kierstyn is describing the culture she grew up in, not stereotyping some “other”.
I see a clear distinction in that this is surfacing the actions of ‘Christian’ jihadists in this country (many of us thought this extent was an urban myth — especially that Pence is their holy Grail), whereas Muslims are being painted with the extreme brush of the handful of jihadists who are terrorists so that we will fear them irrationally. This is an alarm bell that needs ringing! Especially since we have become a country that allows anything underscored with the word “Christian” to go unquestioned/ unchallenged.
I never thought of it as a myth. My husband and I used to travel 40 miles to a church within that type of community. The pastor and his wife were warm and inviting. The body of churchgoers was a somewhat racially mixed crowd, friendly and open. They accepted my kids as family. After a while, Under all the “nice-ness”, I felt an undercurrent that was not nice at all. I don’t think that this pastor understood what he was getting into. 1-1/2 years later, the church broke up. My husband and I had enough by then and were ready to leave. About 6 months before it fell apart, The right-leaning pastor started inviting alt-right type politicians to speak. When these politicians were muttering things that raised hairs on my skin, I wondered what was happening. When the pastor ordered us to vote for George Bush Sr., it was just a matter of time before we stopped attending.
The pastor and his wife were so nice. The other members accepted my children. It was hard to quit, even after hearing some of the keywords and sentiments within this article. Even when I was increasingly repulsed by the right-wing Christian radio stations. Even after being subjected to Jim Crow at the local supermarket that we occasionally visited during long church days.
We had to leave because we saw the writing on the wall. Even if people within the church were nice and the pastor was nice, he was being sucked into something that shook the foundations of that church and destroyed it. 3 years later, my husband was in that area and noticed the pastor. My husband found out that the pastor went back to being a Baptist and no longer practiced “Christianity” in that manner. The pastor seemed tired…… Fast Forward to 2016:
I instantly knew that America was in for it when Trump let Steve Bannon advise and run his presidential campaign. I became even more concerned when I heard that Pence was chosen as his running mate. I told my husband that Pence concerned me more than Trump. Quiet unassuming Pence looked like the ultimate alt-right ChristoFascist candidate. I told my husband that Pence is going to be the real president, just wait…….
As a black person, yeah I am more than concerned.
Thank you for sharing your experience of the hate beneath the niceness. As a mother and human being, it is important to listen to one’s conscience and remember the fundamental basis of the great teachers: To do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That love is real and and that peace depends on equal justice and mutual respect. These lessons begin in the home.
Consider what it means to “fight back,” can vary dramatically from one person or group to another.
From my perspective, this means that we must also get out the vote, but rather than trying to change the minds of the far right Christof assists, we must reach out to our friends and neighbors who previously didn’t bother with voting or activism.
The majority didn’t vote for either Trump or Clinton. Instead, the majority didn’t vote. We need to change apathy to activism.
Yes, the political aspects of this are at the root of both the cause and the potential cure, as far as I can see.
Wheather the founders of movements like these in Christian or Islamic or Hindu or any other belief system actually firmly believe in the Tennents of their religions is I think, still debatable. Being the cynic that I am I’m just as ready to believe that they are political opportunists who are willing to wear the necessary mask to further their own ambitions.
Their greater followers however, a frequently people who are believers who are often skilfully manipulated to take the next step down the path to fundamentalist belief and what is worse, action.
By encouraging others who have previously been turned off by politicians or who think that they can’t make a difference many of us may gradually turn the tide. In some ways the draconian changes that are being enacted and promised by these governments may be their gift to those of us who are appalled by their actions.
These changes are going to adversely effect us but many will also have an unwanted effect on their own supporters or affiliates. The lack of accessibility to health care, the well paying jobs that won’t materialise, the housing that isn’t going to happen etc. it may take time to build momentum and we will have to keep the pressure up by telling the stories and standing up but this is how some of the push back goes.
Sorry all…. I’ve gone into overdrive again.
Don’t apologize! I’ve really enjoyed reading everyone’s replies.
It’s been illuminating and I’ve been giving every one serious thought.
From my perspective, I would say the biggest difference is most times when people speak against Islam, they are not FROM Islam and therefore most of their info is propaganda.
This person LIVED this and likely more qualified to inform that there are some past the point of being reasoned with. Therefore, we must fight for laws and policy just as hard as they do.
If you think people who have spent most of the last 30 years teaching their children that GOD is ordering them to turn this secular state into THEIR flavor of a Christian nation by asking them “Pretty Please!” then you are incredibly naive.
Make no mistake, what Trump, Pence and the Christofascists are pushing for could only end in a Civil War. We CANNOT talk them out of that course of action. Things may look bleak and bad for Progressives now, but it is NOTHING compared to what is coming. And Progressives had better grab every scrap of courage and determination and self-preservation they have at their command and be prepared to do the worst that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. I don’t say this because it is what I want, or admire or what the hell ever, I say it because this is EXACTLY what I have spent the last 18 months trying to stop, by opposing the Alt-Right white supremacists represented by Trump and Pence. We didn’t stop them. Now we are on a fast slide downhill to disaster, and we DAMN WELL better get it through our heads that the other team is NOT playing by the same rules we are, and in fact are not playing by any form of CIVILIZED rules at all.
Lauren – you ask what the difference between this broad brush and the painting that the far right has done for other religious viewpoints?
One difference is to realize that the aggressor isn’t a specific religion — but rather, is the spirit of radical, fundamentalist extremism — a spirit that can assume the guise of pretty much any religion. I think the author of the article realizes this very well — and they even hint to this implicitly, even if not explicitly.
It’s as I’ve told people — the dangerous thing about Radical, Extremist Islam is not the Islam part – but the Radical, Extremist part. And the same goes for Radical Extremist Christianity, Radical Extremist Judaism, Radical Extremist Buddhism, Radical Extremist Hellenism, Radical Extremist Wicca — and Radical Extremist Insert-the-Name-of-Any-Religion-I-Left-Out.
“…the dangerous thing about Radical, Extremist Islam is not the Islam part – but the Radical, Extremist part. And the same goes for Radical Extremist Christianity, Radical Extremist Judaism, Radical Extremist Buddhism, Radical Extremist Hellenism, Radical Extremist Wicca — and Radical Extremist Insert-the-Name-of-Any-Religion-I-Left-Out.”
Sophia, thank you, and YES! I say this over and over. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism, no matter the flavor. One of the foundations of all fundamentalist religious practices is the subjugation of women, a good marker to look for. Frankly, fundamentalists of different religions have more in common with each other than they do with non-extremist co-religionists as a rule.
I am an atheist, as are my three (grown) children. We’re from a jewish family (and were more “jewish” in the past, though mostly secular, until we all finally shed those last vestiges of abrahamic tribalism). My kids were (mostly) homeschooled, in secular & unschooling style. One is now a public high school teacher, one a farmer, one an artist. I always cringe a little when I see homeschooling used the way these folks do; it perpetuates the idea that the only people who homeschool do so in order to limit free thought. We did it specifically to increase critical thinking skills and community involvement for our kids.
We know people like those described here. (My youngest daughter’s paternal grandmother is a fundamentalist christian, who used to protest & get arrested with Operation Rescue; my middle sister, though not a fundamentalist jew, is a middle-american conservative bigot who voted for trump.) Experiencing this first hand is very different from judging entire groups (demarked by whatever boundaries constitute “other” in that case) remotely, in their entirety. While racism and bigotries of various forms can be localized or specific, most of the time it involves extremely broad categories, often quite vague or inconsistent in terms of who falls within them, and generally involving attributes that are not chosen, which is quite different from calling out hateful beliefs and behaviors of specific groups whose adherents choose their affiliation with.
One of the things I see progressives struggling with especially now (understandably) is how to deal with the racist, hateful problem of islamophobia as a “broad brush” issue of discrimination, while still being able to denounce fundamentalist islam in the exact same way we should feel comfortable denouncing fundamentalist christianity/judaism/hinduism, etc. (misogynist, homophobic, clannish, hate/violence-prone, etc.) Hypersensitivity (again, appropriate in many cases, particularly now) to any appearance of broad bigotry that could be used to support immediate harm to innocents can hamper the ability to talk rationally about the real, disproportionate harm extremists of all religions pose to populations at large. I am, personally, far more afraid of the kind of folks spoken of here, but the fact is, I find all extremist/fundamentalist religious folk pretty scary in a big picture way. The far/alt-right’s horrifying success in redirecting and polarizing any dialog about this is truly stunning.
Kieryn, thank you for writing this, for speaking and acting publicly. I just moved from the East Bay to Eugene, OR, and I’m looking forward to finding the folks here who will fight the good fight alongside our compatriots south and north of us.
I think the thing is, Kieran is painting a specific and small segment of Christians with this brush. They’re not saying “all Christians” or “all very conservative Christians” or even “all really conservative politically engaged / Tea Party Christians.” They’re saying, Christofascists. People who have quite literally spent their entire lives teaching their children how *not* to be reached with reason and sitdowns and respectability politics.
It’s not like saying “you can’t reason with Muslim people,” it’s like saying “you can’t reason with a guy who has strapped a bomb to his chest in order to earn 72 virgins.” There are levels to every religion and organization, and the levels these people have reached are a bit mad. They have their own educational tools, radio stations, schools, and churches. They’re terrifying.
I say this with confidence, because this is how I was raised. My mom was somewhat more liberal in some things for some years, and I’m obviously long out of it, but there is absolutely no reasoning with someone like my dad, who thinks as a SWM Christian he’s the most oppressed group in America and everyone is out to get him. There’s no reasoning with Mike Farris (who I’ve met), who thinks he is literally a Culture Warrior for God. There’s no reasoning with the pastor of the church where I was raised, who’d be quite happy to see all gay people in concentration camps, people in interracial marriages should at least be in prison, women who wear pants should be stoned, etc. The only thing keeping someone like that pastor from actually carrying his wishes out right now are the laws. And the laws, well, they’re on shaky ground under Trumppence. Kieran isn’t saying they need to be killed or imprisoned, but roundly defeated, given no ground on which to enact their awful plans. Because their awful plans look exactly like the ‘Sharia law’ they so loudly complain about, just under a different name.
In short, knowing about whom Kieran is speaking, I don’t think their rhetoric is wrong at all. I get why it’s a bit scary to you, but as someone coming from that background, I found it important and necessary.
(Should be “Kieryn.” Sorry about the name misspelling. I’m the worst at proper nouns.)
So long as we remember we are fighting with the ideology not the individuals. It is the policies in support of their white might makes right theological ideologies, not those who are swept into these faiths, which we fight and oppose.
Every tool can become a weapon, most often to be used against us. Tread carefully.
I believe what they are doing wrong is painting all of Islam with the same brush, and that is not what is happening here. We would be remiss if we were faced with the equivalent of the Quiverfull movement within Islam and refused to stand up to it – somethign the right accuses us of doing. Indeed, when extreme forms of Islam limits the rights of women abroad we must always speak.
What we must never do is attribute those idea to all Muslims. What we must never do is attack the people themselves instead of the movement, by creating rules and laws that discriminate against them. That is certainly not what is happening here.
No one is saying all Christians think this way. I marched last weekend with three Christians who are fervent in their desire to stand up to Trump. Many Christians believe Jesus called them to minister to the poor, to refugees and to all immigrants. I haven’t heard any liberals blame Christianity for this; every lament is about the far right, the evangelical movement*, conservative christians. I am sure that some liberals have misplaced the blame, but I haven’t seen this happen on a meaningful scale.
I believe it is absolutely valid to describe characteristics of a particular movement within Christianity. While individuals within it may be flexible, we are certainly not going to make meaningful change without changing the mind of a significant number. It is indeed reasonable to ask whether their beliefs themselves will resist opennes to new ideas. I’m in the midst of reading Quiverfull for the second time, and I agree that the Titus 2 movement is fairly defined by its emphasis on submission and obedience. When you are taught from birth that the answers are in your religion, appeal to secular argument are unlikely to work.
So, this article is describing characteristics inherent to the group itself. This is very differnt than a stereotype that impugnes negative characteristics to a group one dislikes. There is nothing inherent in Islam that would make one a bad American citizen or a threat to us, especially since there is so much variation within it.
Also, the article is merely suggesting that we are wasting our efforts. It is not suggesting that we act on the belief that these folkss are intractable. Meanwhile, the Muslim stereotypes are resulting in direct and dire consequences for individuals who are unlikely to embody those stereotypes. A very different situation.
*I should note here that many Evangelical leaders recently signed a letter opposing the Muslim ban, and I have two close Evangelical friends who are very liberal, so even this grouping isn’t perfect.
Because in context it’s true. It is also true in the context that you can’t convince someone who is zealous in Any religion to give it up. You can’t convince zealots of any origin to give up their cause by telling them its illogical. That is merely a reality of human psychology.
You can make the environment around such groups such that others are less likely to join their cause & those on the edge may be more likely to leave. You can make sure they know they aren’t the majority & don’t represent the only perspective. For instance, christian groups that denounce radial christians are useful just as are islamic groups that denounce radicals who share their beliefs. Just are people in any contingent who reign in those in their group who tend to get a little out of hand. Every group has them. Those who get too self-righteous & go to far. They’re only dangerous when they gain a following & start to convince others.
The key difference here is that the far-right paints all Muslims with a certain brush regardless of their affiliations, beliefs, etc. That is an arbitrary cause for censure. On the other hand, the left rallies against the theocratic far-right not because they are ultra conservative Christian or because of certain beliefs they hold, but because of actions they personally take that cause others harm. That’s a huge difference. No one cares that the Amish see us all as godless heathens. A lot of secular people can actually appreciate their way of life even if they disagree with their beliefs. They don’t force us to assume their way of life and are happy to live and let live, which is exactly what this gaggle of Christofascists refuses to do.
Another way to look at it is through the lens of power differences. Radical Islamists (the Muslim counterparts to Christian theocrats) don’t have much if any structural power in our society and neither do moderate Muslims, so it makes no sense to feel threatened by them or single them out for critique. Whereas the Christian far-right has an enormous amount of structural power in our Christianity-dominated cultural and political landscape, and they openly abuse that power.
Self-critique is very important, but it’s equally important not the lose the forest for the trees. A lot of liberals weigh means much more heavily than material outcomes, and I think that’s sort of why we’re in this terrible place currently. Democrats stuck to civil discourse and tradition while the opposition didn’t respect that and walked all over it. That’s why trying to convince theocratic ultra-conservative Christians won’t work. They don’t respect rationalism so you’re gonna hit a brick wall using that tactic. Tactics far more likely to work are exposing them for their abusive actions, both against others AND their own (especially kids), exposing their ultimate *goals* (not beliefs) as something that shouldn’t be given the time of day in a society that wants to remain free and democratic, and disrupting their fundraising through direct action from other Christians (not through the state b/c that would be hella sus).
I agree and suspect that this entire article is part of a bogus attempt to split the populace and create chaos in which Trump and the right that put him in office can achieve their goals while we argue and attack each other. The religious story is just a way to activate people through fear and hate. Pence is probably as much of a pawn as Trump. In any case, I agree with personal and meaningful conversation to clarify our common ground. We probably all want social justice, safe places to live, jobs and health. Its a simple place to start dialogue and cut down the confusion.
You cannot “out-love” religious zealots. It isn’t possible. They will only see it as weakness on your part and evidence that they are righteous (since god made you be nice to them”. They are not capable of rational, critical thought and do not accept facts based on history, science or logic. These people are cultists and dangerous as any islamic extremist. They will gladly die for their beliefs and, just like islamic terrorists, believe that they will be rewarded in heaven for being martyrs.
How do I know this to be true? 16 years of southern evangelical indoctrination, 10 years of evangelical bible school and parents who match the profile outlined in the article. When I say these people are a threat to everything and everyone, I mean it, and I know first hand what I am talking about.
Hi. I want to respond to the sincere question and desire for discussion on the topic expressed by a fellow reader of the article. I am not sure who you feel is being painted with a broad brush. I felt that this was a successful endeavor to describe an important phenomenon that many people aren’t fully aware of. I was educated and want to continue to learn. If you want to add information or caveats please do.
I am being painted with a broad brush. It hurts. It’s unfair. You can talk to me and I will listen and answer your questions. I’m human. I’m just like you. To call me names is hurtful. We can be friends. I offer that to you. Please don’t paint me with a broad brush. :)
The difference is that these people have taken over most of the positions of power in the most powerful nation on Earth, and they are on track to take over completely.
We no longer have the option of being kind and fuzzy. This really is a war. They understand that. Not all progressives do, but we need to. This is a time for Churchill, not Chamberlain.
Read The Handmaid’s Tale in order to understand what I’m talking about. It can happen, and it will happen (or close enough), if we don’t stop it now. I really don’t want to spend the last days of my life fighting a guerilla war or living as an expat in Canada or Europe.
You are correct that there are similarities but what makes Christian extremism different from the overexaggerated threat of Islamic extremism is that Islamic extremists don’t actually have power in this country. They don’t really even have great relative power anywhere… they are forced to become so extreme and so reliant on human suffering that they turn into deathballs like ISIS. They are chaotic, disorganized movements that lack any real formidable power. This is in very stark contrast to Christian fundamentalists in the U.S. who have only grown in power by proxy through the Republican party which continually inches them closer to our devastating, highly organized arsenals of destruction. Bush’s senseless militarism is a perfect example of what organized Christian fundamentalism can bring to the table. Do you believe that Muslims would ever wield such power or support in this country? Of course not.
She isn’t painting all Christians with a broad brush, she is describing the far-right, fundamentalist, dominionist evangelicals who want to establish a theocracy. And it is a very accurate description. Those of us who used to be part of that demographic know she is spot on. And in that sense, it is exactly the same as fundamentalist Islam. No difference. There is no reasoning with these kind of people, we just need to defeat them wherever we can.
Agreed. There isn’t any amount of BS that cannot be stopped by a solid punch in the face!!!
The only way to sort it out is to listen to the people who grew up in this environment. I did too and was always the unconvinced black sheep of the family. The movement she is describing is organized, authoritarian, self-righteous, insulated with reinforcing mechanisms, and philosophically grounded in a 13 volume work called, “The Fundamentals.” Their philosophical world view (which they readily acknowledge) is outside of Enlightenment Liberal (in a philosophic sense, not the contemporary popular sense)Frameworks. Like with judging Islam there is a justified hesitancy from critically minded outsiders to not want to generalize, but this is done from a position of ignorance that cannot allow for nuance. The far-right of the christian movement does not represent all of Christendom, like the far-right of Islam is not representative. But they are there, they are very much a threat to modernity, and they are rooted in the same respective religions that good people say are about love. Until that can be broadly recognized, not amount of push back will dislodge these schools of thought.
You can’t reason with dogma. You can’t reason with a mission from god. The religion is why otherwose perfectly sane, logical people strap bombs to their chest and blow up children leaving a concert. Religious conviction makes sense to those who do not have other answers, and if you are doing god’s work no mortal can talk you out of it. You may as well debate a rabid dog on the benefits of not biting.
These Christian Supremacists call themselves Soldiers for Christ and they are not totally unknown. When someone trolls us they are often from this group. They are very dogmatic and what they say is what they tend to do if we allow it. We must be ready to fight all the way to the polls and always keep vigilant of meek and seeming inoffensive young political aspirants because those are the leaders. If that kind take over there will be pogroms and deaths of all of us not of their kind of religion. They will be ruthless if allowed to put down roots and keep growing. If you think Pat Robertson is a loonie ld man,you are only half tight. He is a very dangerous man for us and the rest of humanity! If they get to take over the whole government, judicial and military we are lost! I am a white Muslim and have a gay son I love very much, plus two military kids who can not even communicate with me more than a few words! Why? I would never hurt anyone! But,a Trump is giving an arms sale deal to the worst contributors to terrorist organizations that may help set the Middle East on fire as these crazed end timer Evangelicals want to do. And we do have huge numbers of those people in our military and police, all the way to the top. God help the USA and our real Constitution!
Yes Lauren! Thank you for pointing that out. I am willing to stand with you if you’re Muslim and I am exactly who they are talking about in this article, I am a “Christofascist” lol… I am really not a fascist at all, but I am the target of this blogger because I come from a similar background as they do. Let me address your concern, you can talk to me, I WILL listen, and guess what? Even if we disagree on politics…I won’t think you’re hateful if you give me the same courtesy! It’s as if you were to be labeled “hateful” just because you said you agreed with MOST not ALL of what they wrote in this blog!?! No! We CAN agree to disagree and even be friends! You mentioned Islam concerns… I know Christians and Mormons who have moved mountains to help refugees. I am also for Constitutional religious freedom just like they wrote, but Christians agree that means Muslims, too! And, we don’t hate LGBTQ ?️? at all! We need to stop fighting and slinging dirt at each other! We can help each other out and stop harming each other. I truly believe that. It will take civil discussion. I am here for you, and yes, you can talk to us. Anytime!
May I simply suggest that the “simplification” that you, and most everyone, years for can be achieved by coalescing behind the ideal of equity and genuine consideration for every person regardless of their personal religious (or lack thereof)?
Thank you.
May I simply suggest that the “simplification” that you, and most everyone, yearns for can be achieved by coalescing behind the ideal of equity and genuine consideration for every person regardless of their personal religious (or lack thereof) beliefs?
Thank you.
I was trained for this stuff as well……. horrifying. I’m believing less in a god now a days and probably never believed in one in the first place. Which means I wasted my time hating and hoping for no reason. It’s scary and sad. Mostly scary. Dark times are coming, lets try to shine some light guys.
Avawn – just because those folks twisted God and faith for you (and so many others) doesn’t mean they’re not out there, in a truer form, waiting for when you’re ready. Never lose hope. Now people like you and Kieryn can expose the truth about this to us – who need it very much right now!
Avawen, I want to hear your story next!
KEEP TELLING YOUR STORY, please!
Avawan, you should be telling us of your experiences as well. Anyone who has some insight here should help us all to learn what we are dealing with. Kieryn’s article was immensely helpful and we need as many stories around this topic as we can get to wrap our heads around what we are dealing with. Also your personal perspective will have even greater value. Please write about your experiences. Please share. This is your time.
Also please let me know if you do. [email protected] and we are shooting a piece about “bridges” such as you so if you would like to be part of our shoot please write us. Thanks.
I grew up a pretty conventional Catholic, and I too got depressed when I realized I didn’t believe in Jesus like I was “supposed to.” It was scary, frankly. I’ve since come to the opinion that “Jesus” was a very nice prophet or group of prophets, or perhaps just a metaphor all together. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are useful narrators for all the stories collected into what became the Bible. Most of the painful contradictory stuff was added in by Popes and mistranslations and time… I always remember the Pope was once a ruler. Of course he’s going to be shady at times.
So God? Not so much the almighty being sitting on high, but perhaps the spark of life? What are scientific waves, gravity, particules, everything ultimately made of? What IS matter? Maybe the connection is “God.” Less “intelligent design” and more universe DNA. I don’t know. I do know our definition has to change based on what we learn. And we can’t govern based on the intelligent design arguments. It’s just not science.
It’s scary, but you are a light in a dark place for those that are also finding themselves in the same position as you were.
Personally I am an atheist. I was raised in an agnostic home, but went to a Church School in England. As the years have passed I have come to realize that I am not an agnostic. I am atheist, and its is such a relief to finally feel the weight lifted from my mind.
I hope that you find your way and also feel relief one day, whatever your final destination.
Thanks for posting.
Embrace that darkness and let go.. May I suggest some internet pornography or Acid tabs to take the edge off?
It took me 40 years to come to that realization. Feel lucky that you’re still young & you can now live your life in reality. My aha moment was having children & realizing that me as a human could not send my children to an eternal lake of fire just for disagreeing with me so how could an “all loving God” do that. What an evil god.
Two groups these Evangelicals have forgotten about are moderate Christians and the second largest (and growing) group related to religion; those who don’t affiliate themselves with an organized religion and atheists. Sixty five percent of the U.S. population identifies as Christian, five percent as other religions and thirty percent as non religious or atheist and again that group is growing probably due in part to their disgust with religious involvement in politics. In that way these hardcore “Christians” are shooting themselves in the foot as it were. They drive away their own members over time. We have actually seen the decline of influence of the Tea Party as most mainstream Americans now view them as the freaks they are. A moderate Christian is no more interested in seeing this country run by a theocracy than an atheist is. As for Mike Pence, I have noticed even the most casual voter or political enthusiast knows what he is. On one hand I want Trump out but on the other hand I don’t because those of us on the Left (and probably many on the Right as well) know how much more dangerous Pence is. The only real plan would be to impeach Trump and then have dirt on Pence ready to go and start the impeachment process 30 seconds after he is sworn in. Of course that would make Paul Ryan next in line, speaking of dangers, but I guess you have to start somewhere.
And yet, here you are. You see justice and equity, you recognize fairness for what it is, as does Kieryn. There is hope for people down the line, then, isn’t there?
Thank you for this. I was on some tangent of this culture as someone who was homeschooled by their grandma in elementary school only, but thankful that since she was Catholic we never got too deep into this. Hope you’re healing from the wounds i’m sure this has left.
Not everyone who is home schooled is Christian. Some areas are pretty remote, like Alaska and parts of Maine. I’ve met homeschooled kids who weren’t really religious at all.
I’ve also met people as described in the article. It is really scary.
This was INCREDIBLE.
Also, deeply scary. Wow. Thank you, I’ve learned a lot from this!
This is pants-shittingly scary. Thank you for sharing, and I hope these people leave you alone forever.
i was a christian homeschooler, too–luckily i was pulled away from it bit by bit over the course of high school after my mom came out of the closet. (i’m writing a novel about that whole thing now; would love to talk about it if you’re interested!) this essay is chilling and all too familiar–glad you’re getting the word out about this world.
Kerry, let’s amplify. I’d love to help promote any side of the story that will tell the truth!
Wow sounds like an amazing story! Would love to interview you. Please contact me
[email protected]
Wow sounds like an amazing story! Would love to interview you!
Wow sounds like an amazing story!
@kerry Cullen would love to read the novel when you get done it. my email is zacharyjdmeyer @ gmail.com
I encourage you to write and share your story. Please consider posting a short version quite soon, and work on a longer version as well. Your story is pertinent, and might help increase understanding between people for whom our differences have been made a source on contention, but who, like all humans, have much in common. Even if it seems that the divisive forces cannot be overcome, it’s important to make the effort. While this might not seem related, the Berlin Wall looked like it would last forever until it came down…
I have a question: you mention ‘non-discrimination based on race’ as being something they are against, but I’m confused as to why? There’s plenty of Evangelical people of color around, are they not welcome to this party? Is there a biblical connection to racism involved (such as was the case with Mormons)?
I get the anti-science, the pro-discrimination/punishment for lots of other groups but racism is just so random to throw in there? This is confusing to me.
Evangelical conservatism is extremely racist, despite the fact that POC are there. POC are only acceptable if they act white, tbh. Hating on illegal immigrants (i.e. non-black POC) was common place in every environment I was in. As far as biblical connections…there’s a lot of genocide of other races in the bible and the Crusades were white europeans taking over countries, racism and christianity are very closely linked, despite people of color participating in it.
I am trying to reframe my question but…. I don’t mean ‘is it happening’ but rather ‘what argument do they utilize to justify this’ if that makes sense? Is it religiously motivated or are they just racists who are also religious?
I think both.
Bear in mind that some of the first Europeans to settle in America, the Pilgrims, had not gone through the Renaissance–this came later to England than the rest of Europe, just before Shakespeare. In other words, the Puritans were Medieval in mind-set. See where this is going? Think Salem witch trials . . .
By the way, the Renaissance was essentially a transfer of science and culture from the Islamic world to the Christian world, something conveniently missing or down-played in many history books.
Fred Clark on Slacktivist does a really great job of demonstrating that a lot of American, conservative, white Christian movements grew out of a need to justify racism–as far back as the fight over slavery. In the sense that the spirit of Christ’s teachings would absolutely prohibit slavery–and yet you can also find individual passages in the Bible that speak of having slaves. So, all pro-slavery Christians needed to do was develop the idea of “Biblical inerrancy”–the idea that every word of the Bible is God-breathed and absolutely perfect and unquestionable. The words, exactly, themselves. Interpretations are just liberal bias, clearly.
This idea was and is still huge in Evangelicalism. <a href="https://twitter.com/NateSparks130/status/824447158590013440"Here's a recent twitter thread on how innerancy is based in ableism and ethnocentrism and how it keeps the powerful in power.
…I don’t know if this explains how they justify it, exactly, but it’s not a coincidence that there’s so much racism involved. Evangelicalism was designed to make sure the powerful stayed that way.
That’s super interesting, thank you!
I believe that the bible does indeed have some things to say about slavey – it seemed to assume that it was part of the world, but if you did keep slaves there were certain ways you should treat them – for example, if someone serves you as a slave for six years, you are then supposed to give them freedom, and “not send them away from you empty-handed”; you were supposed to give them a good stash of food and drink to take with them.
I agree. I think the key here is about keeping the powerful in power. The rest is really a way of justifying the first. Give people someone or something to a) be frightened of and b) feel superior to and then c) provide them with an inarguable source of justification to feel both scared and superior with a CAUSE and you’re in business. The lure of some prospect of money helps too even if you have to dedicate some of it to, in their case God.
I go to an evangelical church that has a motto of “all races all kinds all nations.” To be a racist Christian would speak against the loving nature of the non white Jesus we love and live for. The past is not the present. In general, Christian’s aren’t racist and I’m sad that this is a picture being painted today.
From my experience within this movement, anti-black racism was abundant, but usually couched in “cultural” terms. That is, “black culture” was deemed to be “pagan” and “ungodly” and viewed as a danger to proper Christian morality. Black influences on music and media were sources of white Christian hysteria, and black people (especially black youth) were seen as sexually immoral and frequently violent or criminal. While in my experience, most people I knew weren’t outright pro-discrimination, they still harbored a lot of religious hostility towards black people. Many also objected to anti-discrimination measures because they felt they were “unnecessary” and “government overreach” and determined that racism was a thing of the past.
I call what you’re describing a cult. I’ve never trusted them. I totally get what you’re saying and thank you for saying it. I have found them suspecious for a long time. In fact there are books on this subject that any library will be happy to provide.
I am black and what I’m reading is really sad, but at the same time it’s funny that so much energy, time, and money is put into us and keeping us down. In my opinion it’s just a waste because at the end of the day and all the BS, you still have to pay your bills. And we all know bills are not racist.
When I was growing up, my mom met some far right folks who had a whole manifesto explaining how the bible says anyone who is of a non-white race is an animal and anyone of mixed race will automatically go to hell.
My experience, living in an area heavy in this sort of beliefs, is that if a POC acts white, and suitably humble, then that’s different somehow. Those folks are *their* black folks, and they’re different from other black folks, and no, they would *not* want their daughter to marry one.
Not sure how representative this area is of others, but that seems to be the way it is here.
My mother had distant relatives that were snake handlers – somehow she got roped into going to a service – I think she was late teens – with another relative that wasn’t as much into it, but, you know… family.
In the late 1930s, my mother may have been the originator of the idea “I noped on out of there.”
This is SO true. Happened to my family in the church I grew up in (predominantly white) as well as the church I just left a few months ago. Now that I have my own family, the lack of acknowledgement of racism and the plight of POC in america just got to be too much for us. We were indeed “good” black people in their eyes…until we left of course. They certainly did have the attitude that we, especially my babies, belonged to them.
I so appreciate your honest. You further confirm that the truth is not hard to see or talk about regardless of your race, culture, and/or political views. Much respect and appreciation!
I grew up in a Southern Baptist church in FL. While our mostly white congregation was somewhat fundamentalist, we had a program of ministering to the Vietnamese & Laotion refugees as well as a bus program that brought in “POC” from the inner city and other neighborhoods. I think the racist angle is overstated, as we all know that in most churches, people self-segregate based on worship styles, location and comfort with familial culture as well as any latent or overt racism.
I just wanted to add that the color white was taught as closest to God, by early Protestant sects quite a lot. It has been used often even earlier by the patrician Greeks and Romans. Dark was Satanic or just not pure,as if the darker peoples were non human or less human.
I grew up in the same culture as the author, in the south. I’d say that they’re just racist, and then they find a “biblical” justification for it.
In my religious culture, the transatlantic slave trade was praised as being the way God decided to introduce African people to Christianity. A good example of this argument is Doug Wilson’s “Southern Slavery As it Was” and “Black and Tan.” Wilson, btw, is a partner with The Gospel Coalition, which is one of the more powerful organizations in evangelicalism, so he’s not exactly “fringe.”
Chattel slavery was defended because of the Curse of Ham– which is a badly misunderstood rendering of Genesis 9, which has the descendants of one of Noah’s sons serving his brothers in perpetuity. So, black people are, biblically, *supposed* to serve whites. It’s God’s curse, who are we to undo it?
Another argument tossed around for segregation and racial purity was Acts 17 and a phrase supposedly about how God set up nations and for people to living in the “bounds of their habitations.” I heard this argument when I was being counseled for marriage by a Baptist minister who said he’d never marry an interracial couple and that was why.
I also heard it from a preacher at a church service, when a black family came in and the preacher got up and told them to leave, that they weren’t within the “bounds of their habitation.”
There’s also Christian opposition to this way of thinking– a book written by a fundamentalist Christian against this whole argument style called “One Blood: The Biblical Answer for Racism” by Wieland. That book was sold in my fundamentalist Christian college bookstore– Pensacola Christian, which was founded partly to oppose Bob Jones University– of Bob Jones vs. The United States fame. It was against the rules at BJU to date someone of a different race until 2000, and PCC’s founders were explicitly against it. Didn’t stop them from being hella racist in their own way, but their racism was more of the “inner city culture is so violent and vulgar” variety instead of the “white and black people aren’t allowed to mix” stream of thought.
Wow I’ve never heard my family’s bizarre pseudo twist on racism wrote out so well. Thank you for taking the time to do that. This stuff is frightening.
I was homeschooled and my curriculum came from Pensacola Christian School, and our “graduation” was held at PCC. So random that you mentioned that. All of the curriculum I was taught, history especially, was drenched in this racist ideology. I hated every minute of it. My parents thought they were doing the right thing by homeschooling us, but they did more harm than good choosing a conservative curriculum that nearly brainwashed us into thinking as long as we were conservative Christians, we weren’t like “those other” black people. Thank goodness I went to a secular university..fully saw the light.
In Evangelical thought, the different races are born from the three sons of Noah. African people are cursed forever because their progenitor, Ham, saw his father naked one time. Thus, because they’re cursed, (as the thought process goes) they’re not as good as Asians/Europeans (descended from Japeth) and Semitic peoples (Descended from Shem). This has been your Sunday School lesson for this week.
The demographic tends to vote Democrat would be my guess. Minorities overwhelmingly voted Democrat in this most recent election. Ultimately, religion is used as a tool, but the ultimate power is in the White House, not in the churches. They care that you identify as Christian only so far as who you’ll vote for when the ballots come in.
Not around here they don’t. Solidly and vociferously Republican, except those who vote Libertarian (I know, makes no sense, but it is what it is), or for some fringe candidate (who was that guy… LaForge?… something like that. Also another un-explainable).
Racism is, forgive the complex and ironic pun, the trump card of liberal angry rhetoric. So ya gotta throw it in. It’s like MSG to make the msg taste good.
Racism is “thrown in” because it is pervasive in American life. Sounds like AJ would just like to pretend it doesn’t exist.
RIGHT!! You can always tell who’s who and how they were raised when they make specific political comments in response to certain realities.
They believe that dark-skinned people are the descendants of Cain, and therefore lesser/cursed/in a perpetual state of sinfulness & need of redemption by their ‘God-chosen’ keepers.
Andrew’s got it right up there – not Cain, Noah’s sons – thanks for the reminder Andrew.
Guess what! The logic won’t ever matter
If you knew Evangelical POCs, you know that they feel unwanted and unseen when they try to be a part of a White led/majority church.
Heck, I am Korean/White and my wife is White, and our pastors thought it was a good idea for us to leave the church because we, I don’t know, stood up for people of color and other marginalized people.
As an African American woman who was a part of a congregation that did not overtly call themselves “Evangelical”, but they definitely fit that description, I can understand your confusion. However, I would suggest to you that the race-based discrimination that is common in these churches is usually very different than typical acts of overt racism. It can be subtle, and people of color who fully conform to the culture of these churches are welcomed, and likely don’t feel discriminated against. Those of us who desire pastoral leadership and church engagement that specifically speak to the unique and sometimes difficult issues around race, injustice, and inequality eventually realize that those issues are not deemed worthy of attention in church. My family’s worth to our former church went only as far as our willingness to conform to the church culture, and deny the hurt we were feeling due to racial tensions and injustice, and our church’s blind eye to those issues.
Bottom line: most of these churches dismiss the notion of on-going racial injustice and discrimination, so they are definitely unlikely to support non-discrimination legislation.
The thing with these people is that a lot of their ideology is not actually based on the bible. They have a set of beliefs that has evolved and been influenced by aspects of American culture and politics. The fact that they see themselves as biblical doesn’t mean that they actually ARE biblical in all that they do. They will interpret the bible through the beliefs they already hold, not the other way around. I was raised by evangelicals and have read the bible myself, and trying to point out inconsistencies between what the bible actually says and how they interpret it only lead to them avoiding the topics or telling me I needed to get a pastor to interpret it for me.
Because they believe in a hierarchy where whites are the rulers. If you look at the history of Christianity, no one who hasn’t been white has held a major influential position. The closest we can get is Martin Luther King JR, and he was murdered because he wanted equality of the races. The Mormon Church has been the most blatant perp in this, where they literally believe that black skin is the mark of cain and red skin is the mark of (i forget it’s name off the top of my head). They only allowed people of different skin colors into their congregations because it is a form of redemption, but they will never be able to hold a position of authority.
Hope that clarifies things for you. I grew up in this community as well.
Agree, I actually think she did her argument quite a bit of harm by over-reaching. None of the mission statements or evidence presented talked about race or sexism. if you throw those out there is nothing really that new or interesting here.
The boy that wrote this has been deceived. He has walked away from God. Almost every single thing he wrote about he twisted it and turned it to be something bad. It is nothing but pure lies about Christians! If you are a true Christian you will see this yourself!
I think you’ve unearthed one of the many gray areas of evangelical Christianity. It’s important to note that the historic black churches, many which veer evangelical when it comes to bibilical literalism, were established independently from the white evangelical churches in organizations that emerged predominately during and following the Cold War. However, some evidence for discriminatory beliefs among these right-wing evangelical orgnizations includes the fact that Bob Jones and his Independent Fundumentalist Baptist Church association believed, and may still do, that black folks bare the “indellible mark of Cain.” Otherwise, major legislation prompted by Brown vs. Board of Education to desegregate schools was opposed by many predominating evangelical groups
I think you’ve unearthed one of the many gray areas of evangelical Christianity. It’s important to note that the historic black churches, many which veer evangelical when it comes to bibilical literalism, were established independently from the white evangelical churches in organizations that emerged predominately during and following the Cold War. However, some evidence for discriminatory beliefs among these right-wing evangelical orgnizations includes the fact that Bob Jones and his Independent Fundumentalist Baptist Church association believed, and may still do, that black folks bare the “indellible mark of Cain.” Otherwise, major legislation prompted by Brown vs. Board of Education to desegregate schools was opposed by many predominating evangelical groups who then, accordingly, proceeded to start private Christian schools for the sole purpose of keeping their white children away from “urban blacks.”
This was an unbelievably informative and terrifying piece of writing, thank you for sharing it.
I am afraid of what is happening in the US right now and I am not even on the same continent, I can’t even imagine the constant anxiety you are living with right now.
I was homeschooled as well due to overcrowding in the public schools and the desire of my own heart to be taught the Bible along with many other studies. Plus it was important to me to start each day out with prayer and the pledge of allegiance.
I received a very well rounded Christ-centered education for which I am profoundly thankful!
When I graduated I was well prepared to enter college. I did well academically and understood my own personal relationship with Christ. A relationship that is more meaningful than anything this world can give. I ended up graduating as a RN and worked my way to a trauma level-1 hospital in Surgical ICU. It was here that I made profound relationships with my colleagues and continued my education on a daily basis, always learning something new to enhance my performance and care as a critical care nurse.
From here, I was accepted and attended Gonzaga university and completed a graduate degree as a ARNP. Gonzaga richly enhanced my career and continued to nourish my relationship with God.
For you see, it was during these many years of college that I first lost my 17 yo brother to a traumatic brain injury sustained from playing football and shortly thereafter I was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer with metastasis to the liver.
Due to my relationship with God, I gave all my grievances and burdens to him and began fighting the cancer. God gave me so much peace through all of this and blessed me by allowing me to work 3-12 hr shifts/week as an RN, while attending classes and completing clinical hours. I was often so tired, but God carried me through all the way. I am happy to report that I completed my graduate education in 2014 and God brought the perfect job into my life. I didn’t have to search at all!! A Doctor who had met me through doing multiple treatments and reading scans during my battle with cancer, found me in the hospital one day and asked me if I was completed with graduate school and did I have any job prospects yet? I was scheduled to take the boards exam in one week so I was certainly available as long as I passed. I did pass and interviewed the next Friday and over the weekend reviewed the contract. On Monday in August 2014, I signed the contract and became part of a team that was brought straight from God into my life. It was perfectly orchestrated!!
I am so grateful to have God in my life for guidance and I applaud my parents for nurturing me in the Lord from a young age. I have been able to share my story to so many people who have just been diagnosed with cancer and they are scared, but then they see that I am healthy and working and it gives them so much hope!!
I cannot express enough how beautiful it is to live in a country where we have the freedom to stand for our right to speech, religion, and Liberty!! We are a blessed country and we need to pray for our president and his cabinet no matter who has been the elected choice. I am just so thankful everyday to be well and alive! I am thankful I was given the choice to vote, and I will stand behind our elected president and pray for his success as well as the success of the USA!!
I was also homeschooled in a similar manner and this is all terrifying and just awful and I am so scared all the time ugh.
As a middle eastern Jew this sounds pretty scare to me, thank you for sharing. Just one question though, do these people not realize what Middle Eastern(specially non-Persians) look like?
I don’t think so. My family may be the exception (we’re partially Lebanese) because we were the only people who rolled their eyes are blue-eyed Jesus :P At least stateside, the image of Jesus is pale skin, light brown hair, and eyes as blue as Elijah Wood’s.
To be honest, Al, I don’t think they care. Just as you can’t confuse them with facts, that knowledge would get in the way of their ideology, so they ignore it.
No, actually, they don’t. Their films about Jesus are filled with pink-skinned blue-eyed people. Jesus Himself is depicted as blond. I once watched a short Christian Fundamentalist film about one of their theme parks run for children, based loosely on Disneyland, with people wandering around playing Biblical characters. The crowning glory of the family’s experience was an encounter with “Jesus,” whom they said they could recognize because of his white robe and blond hair. A popular book, Heaven is (for) Real, was studied intensely by these Fundies in as many churches as they could infiltrate. I was attending a United Methodist Church at the time where this had happened. The book was said to be the afterlife experiences of a young boy who had died and then been revived. He was said to have painted a picture of Jesus, which was touted among these people as showing what Jesus really looked like. A large picture of Jesus was available on a website, and the Fundies in this church enthusiastically ordered it and hung it in a prominent place. The man in the picture looked a little like Rand Paul, with very light brown hair, small even nose, and light green eyes. When I pointed out that Jesus had been born in the ancient Middle East and must surely have had something like long black hair, dark brown eyes, and olive skin (as a few very early Christian woodcuts do indicate), they were mad at me. By the way, this book has since been admitted by its authors to be complete fiction. But that portrait was not taken down. They want to believe that Jesus and his cohorts somehow shared their own magical superior Northern European genes.
Customer of mine went to that Noah’s Ark theme park last year – *raved* about it. I didn’t even dare ask if Jesus was blond and blue eyed – I’m pretty sure I know the answer.
That is one of the long list of things these people do not realize, I would say. In the crazy Christian world view, the purpose of a Jew and of the state of Israel is to create the conditions and the locale of Armageddon, the world-flattening battle that will spark The Rapture and the world’s end, which they believe is a positive thing (for them).
The Israeli government and evangelicals are pretty strange bedfellows. See http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.736790
I’ve always thought that (the Israeli/Evangelicals
/strange bedfellows thing).
I am a Christian and my church is one of the ones these people would say is going to hell if they knew about it. I hate the Quiverfull and Christian Right ideology so much. Thanks for writing this. We need to stand together and resist.
Kieryn put into words all my conclusions about the homeschooled and the “Republican so-called Christian movement”. As I have been saying, I am more fearful of the moral majority legislators than I am of Trump, and kieryn’s article confirms all my fears.
I am on the church council for a UCC progressive church. I have been trying to explain these realities to my minister and others and I get a blank stare.
I would like to talk to Kieryn about how I can help disseminate her article to other liberal denominations. I have the resources to help.
… just remember that there are a lot of people on the right that love you and the grace you’re trying to apply, we just think it distracts from the power of God to heal in sexual and gender diversity. And most of us can’t stay in a conversation about those terms long enough without being bullied to learn the reasons you think we hate you. Unlike a lot of liberals, you come from a family that loves Jesus because of the life-altering transformative power he gives us for salvation and know that we depend on Him for salvation. With all the liberals out there who don’t hold that line, you can see how people aren’t going to appreciate the depth of ya’lls faith right off the bat. I am definitely a conservative by your standards and you wouldn’t be able to listen to a group of people who understand me talk about how to integrate LGBTQ into the church without wanting to puke because we come from different camps with different rhetoric. But we’re smart peeps that love Jesus and want to see people saved– can’t we all rejoice that no matter how much or how little we understand of exactly where that path leads, the joy of Christianity is the salvation and love God gives us in the midst of sin, and not a declaration that life is sin-free cause we’re nice by wimpy people standards? In a world of rape and incest, I need much more than people standards and the Bethany seal of approval. That’s all. (Mom’s like, it could be another Bethany Sheldahl, so I FB-stalked. Hi, love your gramma, you don’t know me….and I couldn’t resist saying hi. :-D :-D) You are all so much more loved than you think you are. I know people really are that… twisted towards LGBTQ issues but the thing is there IS another side that will smack them in the face when you hit them with your love of Christ and everything that he is. That is what gives me peace about what I consider homosexual sin or transgender sin: the actual Christian Jesus people in my life who are living their lives powerfully for Jesus in that state. Redeemed!!! wonderfully!!! but still in fleshly form with all the trappings of the flesh… the fact that that is the human that is ravenously loved by our Creator. I hate having these conversations because they hurt my liberal friends and make me suicidal (because I am by nature immutably suicidal, and because seeing God as a loving conservative, I can’t feel the hate people are hearing when these conversations happen. I just can’t.) and all I want is just to say, “No matter what, we’re all going to heaven and that’s all we wanted in the end anyway!!!” The love that God gives you fills your heart and the parts of your brain that work for the ministry he calls you to. The love God gives me to heals me, fills my heart and ministers to the parts of my brain that enable my ministry. We are both human and weak and ignorant of much but united for a common calling of letting people know that God is a safe place we can fall. So hugs. Ya’ll have a powerful Christian witness, but the power of it is in your love of Jesus, and HIS love of all…yes, all LGBTQ people need to know how much God wants all other people to love them. But the need is not your call. That will happen on one side of heaven or the other. Your call is to minister to them but also to… please, please, stop hating us and recognize love with which we are celebrating what we trust (or I do, at least) is God’s unique guidance in your ministry just like we trust his guidance in our consciences as well…
And river song stopped all of earth and time and said to the doctor, “I can’t let you go without letting you know that YOU ARE LOVED.” Never going to preach you into hell. Different definitions of what sin is… but different definitions of how God feels about post-resurrection sin, too. You can’t fit us into the mold that makes LGBTQ feel loved the way we and you want them to because our brains don’t bend that far around scripture with all the miracles God is able to do…but we continue to love as best we can…where we can, and with great hope that we are all called for a purpose in our inadequacy.
I was also homeschooled religiously – luckily my parents were libertarians who weren’t that into government and let me read Harry Potter and listen to rock music, but I knew people like this. I had friends like this.
You’re right, the left doesn’t get it. The unyielding belief that you are right, that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is going to hell, is strong, and it is terrifying. It took a lot of strength for me to break those bonds and I wasn’t all that involved in this community – applause to you for breaking out as well.
Hi Robin … just want to say that I am on the left and I do get it. I know I’m going to hell because I don’t buy into the poor theology that drives the far right ideology. I am a heretic, a nasty woman, a libertard and a snowflake. I know I will never measure up to the standards the far right espouses because I actually think for myself and I will not allow my image of God to be rubber-stamped by anyone. Just wanted to say that those of us who live on the left have fully realized how we are viewed by those who want to destroy our sense of well-being, even though we live and work together in America. We’ve known for many, many decades that a culture war was being waged against us. We’ve also known that the whole homeschool movement and the undermining of public education was supporting the ideological agenda.
I only just saw this, so this is a kinda of belated reply, but, I just wanted to say,
it’s not “the whole homeschool movement”. It is a specific subset of homeschoolers, the far-right evangelical christian homeschoolers. I wasn’t really one of them, though I knew a lot of them.
The people who got me to break away from that subculture, though? They weren’t people who had gone to public school, they were homeschoolers. Liberal homeschoolers and unschoolers who were kind and weird and made me realize that this wasn’t the only option. Saying that the whole homeschool movement is right-leaning and has an ideological agenda is inaccurate and unfair. That’s all.
The world needs more libertarians.
Well, that was terrifying. :/
Ok speaking as a science educator at a community college in arizona, i would like to say that i am a leftie who *does* get it: I my conservative students are smart, passionate, and organized, they just come from a different culture and experience than mine.
What I *don’t* get is how to reach these students: my science training includes zero information on how to make classroom content equally accessible across these culture gaps. Any advice? Like, I can feel the energy in the room change when I talk about evolution or climate change. Arguing facts is useless. I don’t know how to invite the conversation without making my classroom political.
Thank you for this terrific article.
My advice is to keep teaching facts. Don’t compromise, don’t coddle these people. You’re planting seeds that may grow one day. They won’t be won by any type of persuasion. We were taught every cliche in the book about how to argue with “evolutionists”. Until I wanted to learn, there was nothing anyone could say to me to get through to me. Some of your students will want that, maybe they don’t know it yet. But your uncompromising devotion to facts, logic, and science will be the best gift you can give them. We were taught that you were all stupid and we had the best answers. They need to see the world is so much bigger than their tiny scripts.
Love this answer, thank you.
Hi, I used to be a science journalist, and have some potential insight. Creationists do read science news and one article I wrote on the origins of life was reposted on a creationist site. One commenter I remember very amused at how scientists think they can know everything, even though they do not create those things. However my article, in the list below, had room for these responses because it had a sense of humor about the limitations of scientists (in it, one tries to brush up on his knowledge by googling), and uses words like “mere chemistry” – a friendly choice of words to creationist perspectives, though not intended that way. My point is that there are ways of coding yourself as friendly to different beliefs about where life comes from while still delivering scientific facts. Part of that comes from humorously conveying what spots are still knotty for scientists working in these fields.
http://www.livescience.com/6539-theory-life-energy-source.html
Hi, I used to be a science journalist, and have some potential insight. Creationists do read science news and one article I wrote on the origins of life was reposted on a creationist site. One commenter I remember was very amused at how scientists think they can know everything, even though they do not create those things. However my article, in the link below, had room for these responses because it had a sense of humor about the limitations of scientists (in it, one tries to brush up on his knowledge by googling), and uses words like “mere chemistry” – a friendly choice of words to creationist perspectives, though not intended that way. My point is that there are ways of coding yourself as friendly to different beliefs about where life comes from while still delivering scientific facts. Part of that comes from humorously conveying what spots are still knotty for scientists working in these fields.
http://www.livescience.com/6539-theory-life-energy-source.html
Hi Rey! my advice would be to really invest in that beautiful thing that scientists have to the desire to be always learning more.
I think that my journey into cracking open the shell people tried to put over my scull really strayed with a desire to always be learning.
So for the kids to see that learning and expanding knowledge and having a dynamic, flexible brain that can handle new knowledge is desirable and good.
Learning isn’t just about repeating and memorising things someone has told you but to come up with your own questions and to find the answers and that those answers tend to come from different places, not all the same place.
Sorry, this is so wordy I just woke up but does that make sense? If I had to trace back to what started my journey it was that. And having ridiculously patient friends, and hopefully those will come for your students too. Good luck!
I really like Zoe’s and KG’s answers.
I believe in God, myself, and I believe in science. I think that we should always search for truth, and I don’t believe that the scientific method is anti-God. Both believers and non-believers can continue to search for truth without the arrogance of asserting we have or know all the answers. We are always learning more.
I saw this TED talk the other day that might be helpful, “Why We Should Trust Scientists,”
https://www.ted.com/talks/naomi_oreskes_why_we_should_believe_in_science?utm_source=Web+Sign+Ups&utm_campaign=0f9f016763-February_2017_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e881688224-0f9f016763-
My experience has been that the culture we are talking about sees the scientific community as a dark mirror of itself: religiously committed to an essential dogma, but the wrong one. You can challenge that by teaching about the process of science, which at its best is anti-dogmatic and commited to a theory only until some new theory does a better job of describing the universe. You don’t attain celebrity status among scientists by following and repeating, but by innovating and challenging. The joke is that a scientist who says all the other scientists are wrong is called a fool, but that a scientist who *proves* all the other scientists are wrong is called a Nobel laureate.
You can use that to deconstruct their notion of what science is: not a set of beliefs claiming to be the truth, but a set of tools for finding the truth.
I grew up attending Christian schools until college. Although they (mostly) were much more sane and moderate than the homeschooling experience described in the article, there were people who were close to the Christofascist movement as the author describes. Christian schools typically don’t have a lot of financial resources, so anyone who is vocal and threatens to withdraw their kids, and therefore money, tends to get more influence than is justified. My dad was a pastor, and although very conservative, is thoughtful and introspective to a point. Over the years I have seen my mom and sibling moving further to the right until now they seem to be very narrowly apart from the most extreme right/Right ilk of Christianity. I have also had a great deal of scientific training throughout undergrad and med school. I went through years of struggling with reconciling my faith with the observable universe, so perhaps I can offer some helpful insight.
1. Try not to be confrontational. I have found that the far right won’t listen to their opponent, but rather tries to state their point by twisting or ignoring what you are saying. It is very frustrating and difficult sometimes not to get emotionally caught up in a yelling match, but that is often what they seem to want, or at least confrontation. This bolsters their belief that ALL scientists, and really anyone who is an outsider, is deceived and wrong and blinded to their version of “truth”. I grew up in Kansas City and if you know anything about the Westboro Baptist Church and/or Fred Phelps, this is what they do. (Fall From Grace, 2007, is an excellent documentary that may help you gain some insight. So is “Jesus Camp” which is about a different group from Missouri that is in the homeschooler movement. Another one that demonstrates these same tactics though from a non-Christian group is the one on Scientology that BBC Panorama did, “Secrets of Scientology with John Sweeney” or even the HBO “Going Clear”. All give good examples of how reason, logic and civil discourse are not really possible. In the Scientology case, one top guy, Mike Rinder, left and now is on Leah Remini’s series. You never know what will spark a person to question what they have been taught and to start seeking the truth and answers for themselves.
2. Don’t fall into the false dichotomy of science vs religion- Both sides have those who do this, and it doesn’t help advance the discussion. They are not mutually exclusive of each other, and there are many people of faith in the sciences. The religious right are masters at setting this up along with straw man arguments.
3. Strive to fully explain what “Theory” truly means- The right throws it around, as does our culture at large, to mean simply someone’s opinion. If you break down the scientific progression from hypothesis (and how it should be a null hypothesis that is either disproven or supported) to theory built upon multiple hypotheses that are supported by a large body of research and evidence, this should eventually open the door to your students considering some other views vs their dogma. This could be viewed as the baby steps needed to get started.
4. Acknowledge scripture, but consider the context, historical and cultural, of when it was written and how language changes over time – I would suggest using “evolves” judiciously when discussing how language changes as many of your students would likely stop listening as soon as that word is uttered. Consider reading several translations for a broader understanding. Not everyone is an expert on ancient languages, especially many pastors who like to portray themselves as such, and there is some horrible scholarship in this regard out there. For instance, in Genesis the King James says man is to have dominion over the earth. Today, most would think that means we are in a confrontation with nature and we must subdue and dominate it. I believe a truer interpretation is that we are to be stewards of the earth that God has entrusted to us. Ask them if they don’t think God will be upset with us for trashing his creation. For me, this works well to get the wheels turning. Don’t jump right in to climate change. Again, they will likely tune you out if you do, but rather build a foundation on which to then address it. Kind of like the parable of the man who builds his house on sand without a foundation, they don’t have solid ground on which much of their indoctrination is based. They may think they do. I’m not advocating trying to destroy their world view or belief system, but keep in mind they may be quite vulnerable at this stage. Everything they have been taught is now coming into question and that is a frightening thing.
5. In time, try to get them to consider that perhaps the Bible isn’t the “complete book of knowledge about everything” that they were told it is – Most have likely been taught that it is an “owner’s manual” and that the answers to every question can be found there. In my opinion, that is claiming more than what God claims about it within the Bible itself. This is a difficult thing to accept, however. It is comforting to have something you can defer to as the ultimate authority, and ignore any issue that doesn’t fit neatly within it. I suppose the concept of the Christian ghetto would fit into this. If something is outside their understanding from the Bible, they ignore it. If they can’t see it, it doesn’t exist. If they have to confront something right in front of them, it then becomes evil, wrong, shameful, etc. It is easier to cloister themselves in their own community than to engage “others” outside their world. They have been taught that world is evil and therefore must be converted to their belief system through any means necessary. To them, it is a war. The Bible doesn’t claim to have the answers to everything to ever arise, but is a book of knowledge and wisdom whose principles can be applied thoughtfully and prayerfully to try to discern the will of God. It is not a hammer or club to beat someone with. The Christian right love to use the passage about the armor of God, where the Bible is a sword and view it as a weapon, not a tool to be used to know God better. The Bible was written over thousands of years, and is a distillation of what God’s message is to us. It is foundational and simplified for the greatest number of people throughout history to be able to understand. It is the “Living Word” of God, and the Holy Spirit is sent to be a comfort and to help guide us. If they believe in an infinite God, no book will ever contain all there is to know of Him. No book could. He is much bigger and greater than that. However, a book can contain the basics of what we need to know in order to start our journey to better know Him.
I went through years of struggle myself with much grief and heartache, and realized long ago that struggling through many of these issues is part of the journey of life. The age of the universe or the earth is not something that impacts salvation, despite what “Creation Scientists” will say (very popular in the home schooler movement as well). In fact, my dad has told me that when he was in seminary, the day-age and gap hypotheses were considered perfectly compatible with orthodox Christian beliefs. When I was in high school in the 80s, both had become heresy to many. If you even considered the earth could be billions of years old you were being corrupted by the “world”, despite the (poetic) language of Genesis of the earth being without form and void, and the Spirit of God moving across the face of the waters, both of which suggest that something did exist prior to God reforming the earth into what we see today.
I hope some of this helps you, and that God can use you to foster the minds of your students to be the best humans they can be. Christ himself said the greatest commandment was to love God, and the second was just like it — to love your neighbor as yourself. This is what the religious right has lost sight of.
Nice, well thought out and reasoned! I grew up in what the religious right would now call a “liberal” Baptist church, but i’ve recently come to my senses and embraced atheism. Being an atheist sometimes is off-putting and scary, especially to the Christo-fascist crowd but, i must say, your suggestions for how to talk to these people without them immediately “turning off”, are quite well reasoned.
Kurt, What a thoughtfully written post.
Kurt – thank you for taking the time to write such a reasoned and comprehensive answer!
If these students have truly been taught how to think critically within certain bounds, you might reach them by setting up cognitive dissonance. Show them that critical thought cannot have boundaries except logical boundaries. Dogma cannot withstand the brutal honesty of good and logical arguments.
My advice is just keep teaching the facts. I considered myself a creationist just three years ago. I had to take a Biology class and lab in college, and sat through it the whole time disagreeing quietly and thinking it was bs, but as the teacher presented fact after fact about evolution and different aspects of science we were taught was wrong, I started to realize the worldview I had grown up with didn’t hold water and that evolution and climate change were studied, researched facts that actually made sense.
So, even if your students are sitting there disagreeing, over time they may realize what they were taught doesn’t add up. You just have to tell it like it is.
Wow everyone I want to thank you so much for your replies; this is very very helpful. And thanks again Kieryn and AS for hosting this conversation. It’s so good, y’all. I’m reading all the comments on this article and learning a bunch.
As to evolution – try using the concept of allele frequencies in different populations of the same species. Tay-Sachs in Ashkenazi and Sephardic popultions and in other ethnic and racial groups. If students come from a religious world view, the disease incidence could give them something to think about. After all, the basic unit of selection and ultimately evolution is the gene. And you might get some ideas from reading Dean Hamer’s book The God Gene. There is quite a lot of neurophysiology in it, as well as population genetics. Try not to get yourseld fired.
I briefly attended such a church in my teen years. My devout and highly intelligent Jewish biology teacher (who also loved the Bible but had read it in Hebrew and understood poetry) really helped us out. He gave a brief speech saying our Biblical beliefs were fine, and he didn’t want to force us to believe differently. He said he did not mean to attack our belief that God had created the world but just needed us to show that we were paying attention to the details of living creatures. He laid out specimens in order on counters around the room, and Fundamentalist kids could get good grades if they would accurately describe the specimens with a few precise details as listed. In this way, we were able to learn enough details about biology to satisfy the curricular goals and generally understand the categories of plants and animals on Earth. Also, we could gradually put the pieces together in our minds in later years as we matured and read and saw and heard more.
The key is to avoid triggering their fear that you will sneakily undermine the faith that is helping them get through each difficult day.
Incidentally, I am still a Christian, and I still believe in God our Creator. However, I do not expect to understand God. I do not believe in what is called Intelligent Design, and I do not think that we should impose Fundamentalist curbs on our thinking. By definition, God must encompass our entire universe and possibly beyond. I do not expect biological accuracy from books written during the Iron Age, any more than I expect an accurate formula for rocket fuel. Just because Jesus said He was the True Vine, nobody insists that He must have had green leaves sprouting all over Him. Like my old biology teacher, I have come to understand poetry.
Teach exponentials. Evolution and climate feedbacks can be demonstrated once the mind can grasp exponentials.
Perhaps quoting Revelations 11:18. God will destroy those who destroy the earth. Actually all of Revelations is a pretty graphic description of the earth destroyed by climate change. If people think that accelerating “the end days” by helping the destruction of the planet will help them get ascended to heaven, they have sided with those who will be destroyed. Plus they are trying to push the hand of God and God’s timetable, I’m sure God isn’t okay with that. (Not very scientific, but it might make them think).
I was taught that scientists hid evidence and lied blatantly in their quest to undermine creationists — all part of satan’s plot. So I legit believed that evolution was merely a nice little theory with not enough facts behind it. I was raised to just ignore secular scientists.
Be consistent, be positive, openly embrace questioning (the opposite of religious insecurity that demands obedience). Avoid being the asshole that religious propaganda teaches their children that all atheists are.
I took a class on evolution in college where the professor broke us up into groups and gave every group a creation myth from a particular religion and/or culture. Each group had to research their creation myth and present it to the class. Of course, the myths were patently ridiculous, with Biblical creation presented right alongside them. I thought this was a great way to illustrate the fact that no one creation myth is inherently more valid than any other. It also forced the Christian Creationists in our class to acknowledge the existence of religious worldviews other than their own. Added bonus– no one could complain that he was ignoring Creationism in favor of exclusively teaching evolution.
I’d ask each of your students to create presentations for or against climate change. After each presents their information then have a dialog open to the whole class while reminding everyone to be respectful
Ooooh, this is a fun request because I loved all my professors for all the things they taught me until they showed their complete ignorance of creationist culture. I was used to a high degree of intellectual engagement on all topics, science included, and it was obvious to me when professors were not engaged on the same level. When a professor stands at the front of the class and proudly proclaims that Likert was his undergrad faculty advisor and that it’s pronounced lick-urt, not Like-urt, and the only rigorous proof of rating scale validity and reliability includes a 5-point scale, not a 7-point or a 10-point scale, ergo those are not likert scales… you don’t just go home and use every memory trick to try to retrain your brain in pronunciation. You don’t even just start to critique the 10-point rating scales on the job application you fill out the next week. You develop respect for the professor’s passion for truth and you expect their argumental quality to consistently reach a certain niveau.
So, when the same professor begins to breeze over the infamous self-inflating soliloquoy that, “Religious conservatives don’t believe in evolution, so here is a proof based on evolution of peppered moths in an industrial region…” — I check out mentally, because I learned about that in my creationist classes as a ten-year-old, and I start daydreaming about researching my own critique of RATE project, a much bigger challenge to evolution that I became interested in while in my first university chemistry class, and before RATE project information was generally available to other creationists and became mainstream in the creationism community. When I’m done finding five critiques of this, I’m going to call my undergraduate creationist friends and laugh about how the professor is so dispassionate about intellectually engaging creationists that he, like most evolutionary teachers, equated creationist’s misbelief in the creation of novel classes of organisms through spontaneous macroevolutionary shift with the inability to recognize microevolutionary shifts resulting from the automatic process of natural selection. I had some whacked-out right-side conservative friends, but almost none of them were that stupid and so I didn’t entertain any notion that this kind of primitive information would threaten my intellectual concept of creationism. None of my beloved professors was capable of dealing with information from the RATE project, rating it based only on concrete concepts, even though they are excited by string theory and set theory and every other abstract concept out there. Here’s an evolutionary critique of the creationist theory in question: http://apps.usd.edu/esci/creation/age/content/creationism_and_young_earth/accelerated_decay.html —– This is a class I would have slowly savored with a tiny spoon………
I’m from a psych background, and I had to battle some serious cognitive dissonance when I was in Bible college, — which was before I reached university and could stretch my science wings. In our philosophy courses we looked at several different ways of knowing– knowing that is based on experiences, a type of knowing that is based on idealizations, types of knowing that are based on experiements, and so on. I knew when I got to school that my professors exercised all these types of knowing, and that no professor could grasp all of the concepts of another field of study, because of the temporal and emotional investment that was required, so it wasn’t really offensive to me that they were inexperienced. It was just offensive that they were so proud that they knew more about their experiences than mine. It would have been so much more fun to learn from someone who came back, barrels blazing and still convinced of their evolutionary standpoint, from a conference led by doctorate-level creationists. Those are professors that are fun to talk to.
Professors, being intelligent beings with neurons that need pruning and connection, excercise their minds using both concrete and abstract thought, and– even if they are aspergery as Sheldon Cooper– have emotional connections to the material they deal with. It’s part of being human. They use different methods to establish parsimony (One of those words that creationists “don’t believe in”) when study results diverge from expectation. They adapt and assimilate continuously, but have a static impression of the changing field of creationism. I know that all the smart people I know have pockets of inexperience, and when I see static conceptualizations of reality– whether it be a theologian or a scientist, or someone reviewing a study that I’m sixth author on– you see how cognitive dissonance can block change in any discipline. Anyone who can’t call a spade a spade and recognize when they’re using cognitive dissonance really bothers me. And I see dissonance in proclaiming yourself wise to the wiles of creationism when you haven’t got enough interest to engage its most challenging ideas…when you prefer to giggle about “facts” instead of wrestling with conceptualizations of what is abstract in science. Obviously not every undergrad is prepared to take on the RATE project… but that is kind of the point. Using a sixth-grade argument to bolster their confidence in evolution is questionable…even though this is just an established tactic in the scientific that WILL. NOT. DIE no matter how stupid it is. It’s annoying and most of my grad student creationist scientist friends reaffirmed my opinion that it’s purile.
Now, I do recognize that part of declaring myself creationist requires a believe in an involved God that suspends some of the rules of time and space. I’m comfortable with that, but I don’t believe that God is so cruel that he’s going to hand-write a world that points people away from the truth of his identity, and therefore, his grace. One of the arguments a professor used in class was “You can’t study creationism. Creationism isn’t disprovable, therefore, it’s not worth researching. Creationism isn’t disprovable because creationists will react to any dissenting evidence with, “Well, God is God, so he just made it that way. And yea, we do. But what we also do is use the word “creation science” as a broad description for lots of smaller, complex, and disprovable theories– some better than others– which are invigorating as cognitive exercises alone, for creationists and evolutionists alike. Assuming that, after lots of exercises in arguing divergent viewpoints in our homeschool, we will benefit sunday school exercises comparing the hebrew scriptures or Rudyard Kipling’s just so stories to string theory is laughable…
So how will you disprove evolution to me? You won’t. I met a family when I was working in the modern, scientific, industrialized country of Germany… and it forever changed my perspective of our clockwork world. My friend Christine described how her mother got progressively more sick with cancer before getting scans done and finding pervasive, large tumors throughout her body. After being told that her cancer was a death sentence, the atheist grammama went to a church service (mind you, at the point I’m hearing this story I didn’t believe actual miracles happened outside small third world populations and I was looking for the sane person to put Christine out of her misery…) and observed how this pentecostal preacher seemed to reach through her chest and pull out something. After that point, further scans revealed no tumors, and the story convinced enough of the atheist family that they all were baptized… from grammama to all the kids. I haven’t got a good scientific explanation for that. It still weirds me out. I’m comfortable with the dissonance (sometimes), I’ve grown familiar with the idea that life doesn’t make sense (especially when the woman’s granddaughter mysteriously and tragically died shortly after they all converted, and my own daughter’s disability is such a consuming project that I don’t have the freedom to minister to people at all– doesn’t God want ME to have a miracle to share with people? Well…..it’s complicated.)
But the more you engage and understand what interests people about creation, the less you laugh and the more you recognize their ability to … “see facts” Facts are complex and each creationist has a different culture and a different grasp of the discipline.
Did you get any suggestions?
I would suggest working in from an angle.
Like for evolution, don’t actually talk about it. Instead talk about pieces of the puzzle, like the planets. Show stuff from NASA telescopes. Ask what they think about life on other planets, etc. Do this over time with various other pieces of the puzzle, getting their opinions on each. Then teach the various theories about the earth’s age, the different things humans have guessed when trying to understand where we came from. Still don’t mention evolution. Include the various current theories about the earth’s age. Then switch to a lesson on calendars. Like how there are actually 3 calendars being used on the planet right now, and only we are in the early thousands.
You will have never threatened their beliefs by mentioning evolution. And if in any of the other topics they bring up doubts, like on planets or calendars or whatever, ask what they do believe. Most teens watch science fiction. Like you said, they are intelligent. Just skate around the touchy topic, but still teach everything that would lead to an intelligent conclusion.
You must first understand your audience and their background/education/beliefs. Of course, you try to teach evolution and you’re going to either receive silent “oh this poor Prof is so lost” stares, or you’ll be backed into a corner with objections that you’ll never overcome, rather, you’ll silence the discussion because it gets out of hand.
The best way to change a mind is to equip a mind with the tools it needs to change itself over time. Expecting a light bulb to turn on over their head at any given moment is not only unrealistic, it creates a barrier between you and your students because you become frustrated while they lose respect for you.
You HAVE to allow a discussion. But how? It always gets out of hand and goes political right?
Run to your local book store and pick up Sun Tzu “The Art of War” and then pick up a copy of “The Prophet”. Both very easy reads but they’re also critically informative for anyone, anyone, who ever plans on Adulting.
You can’t understand your students because you’ve probably never sat back and allowed them to “teach” you about their background. My suggestion, start there. Learn from the mouths of the babes raised in this secular atmosphere. Really LISTEN and ABSORB and DO NOT ALLOW JUDGEMENT or FACIAL OR BODY EXPRESSION to communicate your feelings of confusion or disagreement. Shut the feelings down and just open yourself to learn.
Be EMPATHETIC not sympathetic. Try to put yourself in their shoes. Once you give them a platform to share (be it in research papers, reports, speeches, projects..) they’ll share. It is only at that point, reading THEIR TRUTH that you’ll know how to craft YOUR TRUTH in such a way that when you deliver it to your class, it’s not STEPPING ALL OVER EVERYTHING THEY’RE BUILT ON.
Exchanging knowledge is something we humans do daily whether intentional or not. We enjoy personal conversations and sharing with people truly interested in our minds. They’ll perhaps share more than you could ever imagine. Again, it may take a minute. Heck, ask them to have coffee before class because, “you would like to understand their truth better.” Trust me, they’ll share.
Again, once you’ve allowed them to share their truth, you’ll find in that truth, their objections as well. Once you know their truth and are prepared for their objections, you can develop a curriculum that speaks to everyone in your room, creates an atmosphere for open dialogue, and more than anything, perhaps this unique experience with you will be the catalyst that opens their minds, if even a tiny bit, and the seeds of knowledge that you’ve planted, with time, will grow.
small steps, if you cross breed vegetables, you get something different from the parents a new vegetable could evolve.
Won’t work.
We were trained to argue that this is merely adaptation. Not evolution. If you can mate two things together and get viable offspring in perpetuity that’s a bonafide species. Mules were something we would present as evidence.
Hmmm…Try leaving room for god? I know that for me it was astronomy. The Big Bang, oh how my family was against that, still sounded legitimate because nothing–>something could very well be god. There was plenty of evidence. Background radiation. Redshift and blueshifting of starlight. Etc.
Biology is tougher because it is so ingrained to be a hot button issue. A platform for conversion even. But there is plenty of ground to cover that has nothing to do with origin, mythological or otherwise. I’d suggest a detailed study of microbiology and genetics. Let the evidence speak for itself.
We weren’t fools. Just as you can see in your religious students. We have just been trained for a war of words and concepts that stems from “science.”
But science, like terrorism, is an idea. A philosophy embodied through rigorous process. It is very hard to kill an idea. Just leave them lying about and let curiosity do the rest.
People are only open to what I call “Proximal, compatible truth”. That is to say, if you present facts in a way that promises to destroy their worldview, you can expect complete dismissal from most. Once upon a time, I was a young-earth-creationist. What swayed me was being told by a believing professor that belief in God and evolution was not a contradiction in terms. I’ve since stopped belief, at least in an interventionist kind of God, but that first sip of truth was immensely powerful for me. I can’t speak to what works for everyone for all time. But most of the people who come around do so gradually.
This article is so illuminating, thank you so much for sharing. I can’t imagine the strength it takes to speak out about this
Yes, this is the culture in which I was raised, though my parents were too poor to be that involved and weren’t this extreme. I can attest that every word of this is true. Thank you for laying this out so clearly.
There was a young man in my state named Robert Saunders. He was running as a state representative last year. He was a graduate of Patrick Henry, one of those trained to take over America for God. Thankfully, his racism got the better of him and his racist words were spread all over Facebook and the local news, tanking his chances at winning. But there is more where he came from.
Is there a good program for assisting teenagers who get kicked out of situations like that? (Especially LGBTQ and such) I would love to help a teenager, but we don’t run in those circles.
Thanks!
Not so much a program, but you might look into Homeschool Alumni Reaching Out (HARO) and Coalition for Responsible Home Education* both places are more resource oriented but might be able to help point you in a direction depending on what you’re looking for, or have ideas on who to talk to.
*I’m one of the founders of CRHE
^ https://responsiblehomeschooling.org should be CRHE’s link but I have a headache and forgot to actually put the link in :3
There’s a program in Atlanta called Lost-n-Found and it’s for LGBTQ homeless youth, a lot of who get kicked out of their homes for being LGBTQ. But I don’t know if they’re nationwide or not.
Well this article is a whole lot of information that I haven’t seen discussed anywhere else. Never heard of Quiverfull, etc. before. Thank you to the author for illuminating us and good job to Autostraddle for publishing it. Hope to hear more from the author on this site.
The Duggar family of the 20 kids and more or whatever it is called tv show is the biggest representation of the Quiverfull movement in media. They are kind of hard to ignore, but I am impressed that you managed. Impressed and a little jealous! People love them on tv and it started normalizing their religion, which is more than a bit creepy. They are seriously all over the place.
You may not have heard of Quiverfull but if you’re aware of the Duggars, you’ve been exposed to it. They don’t make it part of their shows (including the offshoot with the daughters) but the homeschooling, isolation and frantic reproduction are part of their beliefs.
That family with the 19 children that had the reality show are part of Quiverful. In some episodes they associated with other families that were just as large. They’re hardly really even a family – the kids live in dorm-like environments like they would in an orphanage or other institution, with the older ones assigned to care for the younger ones. They all get the same haircut and they seem like cookie cutter children to me. How awful to try to take over the world like that.
There needs to be more publicity about the child molestation (Josh Duggar of Duggars 22-and-counting TV fame, physical abuse, cover-ups by prominent members of the community, and murder (by violence or neglect) attributable to fundamentalist home-school culture. After all, these kids can be hidden away from all outside adults – perfect prey for pedophiles and sadists. There are lots of break-away blogs detailing the evil tolerated in the fundamentalist Christian home-school culture, but only fellow break-aways (escapees) and a few students of the sociology of religion follow the blogs.
Resources with more information:
Kathryn Joyce, “QuiverFull – inside the Christian Patriarchy movement”, circa 2009, this book should be in larger public libraries.
http://kathrynjoyce.com/books/quiverfull/
Long-standing blog by former QuiverFull:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/
Lots of links
https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/ more links
Documentary “Jesus Camp” Summer camp in the home-school culture
BTW I see homeschool moms bring very young children (toddlers to K)to picket the local abortion clinic – and letting the young kids wander at will. The sidewalk where the picketers congregate faces (is 2 feet from)a very busy 8 lane divided highway with some stop lights, typical speed 40 mph or more.
CRHE has a database, called Homeschooling’s Invisible Children (http://hsinvisiblechildren.org) that thoroughly documents this as well.
Somewhere on line there’s a blog by one of Fred Phelp’s sons. (One of the ones who got out). It’s terrifying.
I homeschooled my three children as secular as possible, but with just enough Christianity thrown in so that hopefully they didn’t feel like aliens when we interacted with homeschool groups that thought differently than ours, and that was almost all of them. It’s a very difficult balancing act. The Christian entitlement is so pervasive in homeschooling! It’s very difficult to find any curriculum that’s not heavily Christian. The hslda and state organization can’t even imagine there are homeschoolers different from them.i saw the quiverfull movement and Generation Joshua growing and was helpless to speak against it. I would walk around the state convention seeing young people, knowing that some of them were lgbtq, and that the attitudes they had to live with may put their very lives at risk. I am thrilled that you are speaking up. Keep speaking! Maybe some day homeschooling will be more accepting of everyone, but not in this generation.
In same boat here with one still school age. Very difficult to find secular homeschoolers though curriculum choices availabe through on line content have improved. Once the GOp ends net neutrality it will be a though slog to find appropriate secular material.
This piece was written as known and experienced by the author. The Fairness Doctrine as applied to broadcasts after WWII was removed during Reagan. Though this is a written piece, it still follows that the author has no obligation to describe what she did NOT experience, especially considering that more than one viewpoint is not presented in the atmosphere she grew up in. That is largely the point of this article, actually.
Hey Linda,
We are Catholic and homeschool our three daughters and I was shocked at just how difficult it was to find any curriculum that wasn’t jaded against Catholics. I actually created my curriculum for most of my subjects by incorporating either college curriculums or finding more basic curriculums and adding to them.
I agree the homeschool community does have a curriculum problem. Too much creationism being taught and lots of more Baptist beliefs. I just started homeschooling my daughters 4 years ago not at all for religious reasons, but for safety and educational purposes.
What I have noticed about the homeschoolers I see, is that they are diverse. I see liberals, conservatives, very secular and very non-secular and I also see those who are either extreme athletes with many competitions or those who have developmental educational needs that were not being attended to in a public school. I do, however, live in Maryland which isn’t the South which is where I would expect to see more of the Bible beating fundamentalists.
We do incorporate the Catholic teachings alongside some of the more challenging topics, evolution (which the Catholic Church is not against) and the history of the universe (which the Catholic church is also on board with). Overall though, we keep our education intensely open-minded. I do see some people we network with that are Christians and anti-Catholic which I didn’t even know was a thing until recently.
Great insight in this piece.
We are Episcopalian homeschoolers in the South. The three pillars of the Episcopal church are faith, reason, and tradition, to be held in balance like a three-legged stool. One of our favorite sayings is that we don’t ask people to check their brains at the door. I have three kids with special needs, and have homeschooled all of them in elementary, though two of them do go to public school for the upper grades. I witnessed and experienced a lot of physical and emotional abuse at public school, and even though I don’t live in the town I grew up in anymore, I have an intense distrust of public schools having the best interests of my children in mind, especially when they are little can’t reliably speak up for themselves. One of my older kids was tormented endlessly for being bisexual when he started public school, and the school did nothing until he started acting out. Then their response was to suspend him and refer him to the courts, so yeah, I tend to not trust public schools with my kids.
I am very liberal, and staunchly believe that religion, if it is something the homeschooler wants to cover should be in its own subject and kindly butt out of all the others, especially science. It is nearly impossible to find science materials that aren’t fundamentalist Baptist based. Episcopalian beliefs and services are near enough to Catholic to be highly suspect to the anti-Catholic crowd. We sometimes feel rather isolated, because the local homeschool group is full of people that fit the description of this article, and actually requires a faith statement that is exclusionary of anyone not a fundamentalist Christian.
I didn’t know anything about the political organization of HSLDA and the other groups! (hadn’t even heard of the others) I tend to mostly keep my head down and try not to get into religion when we see other homeschoolers, and I’ve only been to the HSLDA website a couple of times. Read an article from them yesterday in fact, about the testing requirement being overturned in my state. It was a silly requirement, since it only mattered that you showed up, the results weren’t sent to the state, only to the parents. I don’t want to go the route of Pennsylvania with home visits and extreme paperwork (mostly because I am naturally unorganized, and lose paperwork), but I do think homeschoolers should be required to register and the testing (if it had been looked into by the state) wasn’t a bad idea either.
Obviously, I am for the idea of homeschooling being legal, but I was actually a cps worker years ago, and even from that perspective, I don’t know how things could be better set up to protect the child. CPS workers do not have the time or manpower to properly deal with kids they know are being abused, much less adding in home visits with homeschooling families on the idea that they might be abusive. There would have to be a whole new government agency set up, or at least dedicated visitors hired–which isn’t going to happen. The state has a near constant hiring freeze on cps workers, even though the average professional lifespan of a cps worker in my state is 18 months. I made it almost 30, so I guess I was more stubborn than most. My point here is that the state is unlikely to properly monitor things. And honestly, if a family says they are homeschooling to people around them, never registers any child with the public school (so they will never be missed), and doesn’t get a call to cps from somewhere else, no one is going to notice them if they don’t fill out the homeschooling paperwork, so even an agency designed to keep an eye on them would miss them. And if homeschooling was made illegal, the fundamentalists, would just set up a private school and do essentially the same thing. Even if they were attending public school, and some do, at least in this rural area of the South, they still manage to indoctrinate their kids pretty effectively, though maybe they have a better chance of cps getting called if there is physical abuse. I don’t know how to help these kids.
For the person asking about curriculum. We found Noeo Science to be one of the few that keeps Christian studies out of the science curriculum, but they do have extensive notes on their site on how to make it more fundamentalist friendly, probably because otherwise they wouldn’t sell many sets. We use Memoria Press for most subjects. It does include Christian studies, but gives a solid liberal arts foundation including Latin, Philosophy, Art, Classical Music, and Western Civ. The Christian studies get more obvious in the high school grades, but is more along the lines of CS Lewis than Pat Robertson. I wouldn’t go to them if I was an atheist, but for a Catholic, Orthodox, or Mainline Protestant who is more liberal, they are a better choice than most. They also have a special needs curriculum and the best customer service of any business of kind I ever dealt with.
I’m not sure where you’re from, but Seattle has a thriving hundreds-plus group of mostly liberal secular homeschoolers. They do exist! I know it happens a lot, but it all homeschoolers do it for religious reasons.
Hey, Linda. Saw your comment and wanted to ask… Since the homeschooling curriculum tends to be more right-leaning and Christian-based, do you have recommendations from your experience that are LESS so? What resources did you take advantage of as a more secular homeschooler? I ask because I might begin homeschooling a child in the next few years. Any help or points in the right (no pun intended) direction are greatly appreciated. I also thought I might not be the only one wondering about alternatives, so if you can shed light on tools that helped in your experience, I hope you will! Thank you!
Thank you so much for this informative article! It wasn’t something I expected to find on autostraddle, but I’m so glad you wrote it.
I used to be a very conservative Christian myself- and that was only 7 years ago. I didn’t have the rigid upbringing the quiverfull parents gave their children, as my parents were relatively lax about religion. When I got into my later teens I wanted to find that “true Christian” ideal and it basically lead me to discover how horrifyingly destructive their beliefs and political positions are.
I used to be a Tridentine Catholic and there is not much difference between then and the right-wing Evangelicals.This has been going on for 50+ years now and you can see the evil fruit it has brone.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist household. My family completely bought into the chosen one’s idea. My grandparents were extremely racist. My parents managed to pull away from that thought process. I’m not saying they weren’t prejudice at all but they didn’t consider people of color inferior to them. They left the church they were initially members of because it was whites only. There’s a split in my family that can basically be compartmentalized as people who never went more than 10 miles away from home and still are entrenched with these beliefs and people who left home and was introduced to different people and cultures. Incidentally my parents grew up in the shadows of Bob Jones University. One of my uncles went to school there. They will never be convinced that there way isn’t the only way. All others will go to hell and suffer for eternity. We were taught it was our responsibility to save others. This is what shocks my friends raised outside of evangelical churches. They don’t view it as forcing their beliefs on you. They are in fact saving you. There is no debate, and they can find a bible passage to interpret however they wish to justify anything. When you hear something all your life that is reinforced by those you are surrounded by it becomes difficult to walk away from that indoctrination. There’s a lot of fear in thinking that what you have always known to be true may not be. Even if your faith is fear based. Because it is a sin to even question the word of God. My experience is similar to the author’s but not quite as intense. I look forward to hearing more from her. As well as the thoughts of others.
How in the world were you able to find your way away from questioning without feeling like you were sinning?
Initially it was trying to find my way into believing in a different god. But it became so difficult because I would get these thoughts once in a while about why if they were right. So I would have these rips of fear about going to hell and suffering for all eternity. I found it somewhat easier to just not believe in any god. Honestly getting away from my family and church, going off to college, and having the ability to think for myself helped quite a bit. I was able to look at the bible, that has been used so viciously to justify hate, and try to look at things a different way. I didn’t have it being reinforced to me every day so I had time to process more. For example, there are many stories in the bible about god testing people’s faith. The story of Abraham being willing to kill his son Isaac to prove his faith in god was always declared as a shining example of faith. Today I just think “what the fuck kind of god would ask you to do that just to prove your faith?”. Plus, if it’s this all knowing god, that knows what is in your heart, why would it even be necessary? Abraham had been promised riches in return for his show of devotion so it wasn’t even pure faith. Then I realized that passages are picked and chosen from the bible to support the narrative of whomever is quoting it. Once I could see the hypocrisy it was easier. I also did a lot of work on childhood sexual abuse. It had been like the perfect storm of shame and fear and believing it was all my fault. Once I realized my sexuality, that just compounded the fear and shame. So I had to work through all of that. Years of intellectual, spiritual, emotional, and mental growth. Some steps backwards. Still to this day I have moments of terror. So it’s been a long and steady process.
Just a quick and absolutely true story: I was told that when Christians died they ascend to heaven. That all the people I loved, and who loved me, were watching over me from heaven. For years I couldn’t masturbate because I thought I was being watched by dead relatives, and apparently millions of other dead Christians.
I totally relate to your feelings of fear as I was raised a holly roller as they called it back in the day( Pentecostal). I struggle with what I believe and who god is to me. Then feeling the fear that I could be fooling myself.
The Bible is a big part of my memory and I noticed a long time ago that its very complex and can be translated in many different ways to fit many different fenatisysms.
I also realize that the influence of the belief system of the individual writer or diciple is prevelent.
In one part we are all created equal we are not male and female beings and in another part a woman must cover her head. I was tought this meant the man. The head of the household.
This is similar to my childhood in a small southern town. I never knew a black person until I was in my 20s. They lived on the other side of town and went to their schools and we were afraid of them. Why? We were taught to be afraid. Thank goodness my parents weren’t church goers; I had friends who went Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Wednesday prayer meeting. But my parents were products of their southern upbringing and believed generally what southern Baptists believe. My father was tortured by the idea that he and my mother were sinners because he had been married before and the Bible says….a man who divorces his wife is a sinner and causes the women he marries to be a sinner. Amazing to me how many southern Baptists and Methodists get divorced when they believe every word in the big book is true and cannot be questioned. Somehow they rationalize their particular situation and still hate the sin of homosexuality! And talk about it and talk about it and want to do conversion therapy and say they hate the sin and not the sinner! What does more harm to marriage… men walking away from sick wives to marry someone else like Newt Gingrich or homosexuals? Southerners used the Bible to justify slavery. Because Jesus never said slavery was wrong! He even talked about how slaves should bow down to their masters. God could have outlawed slavery or shellfish. He chose shellfish! Needless to say, I am not religious and the idea of these theocratic totalitarians taking over the gov’t of this country scares me to death.
I don’t mean to insult, but this essay is so exaggerated and over the top, a diatribe that promotes a Machiavellian plot onto a group that is little different than any group trying to live their beliefs and promote what they believe to be the best world view for how to live as human in a temporal world. How is what they are doing different from everyone else? LGBT groups promote their worldview and are activists in politics. Climate change acolytes have their priests and are activists in politics. There are mermaids and pirates who want to be taken seriously. Every group wants a piece of the identity-rights pie. It amazes me that anyone can get paranoid and upset at Christians who at their most extreme lament sex outside marriage or what they consider deviant sex or taking a life in the womb, which they consider wrong (it kinda is), or having bathrooms just for boys and girls. Horrors! That’s about as bad as it gets, folks. Some may wag their figurative fingers and want you to feel guilty, but you can say no thanks and go about your business. They are not sending sinners to the gulag, no beheadings here, no gays tossed off buildings, no burning folks alive for blasphemy.
There are mermaids and pirates?
I’m not personally acquainted with any mermaids, but I’m pretty sure they’re not trying to force everyone else to breathe underwater.
Conversion therapy: just GROW a tail! It’s God’s plan.
I’ve got tax breaks and loopholes aplenty
I’ve got legal protections galore
You want lobbyists in Congress?
I’ve got twenty!
But who cares?
No big deal
I want more!
I wanna pee where straight people are
I wanna see, wanna see their ID
Conforming to all of those – what do you call them?
Gender norms!
OMG CHANDRA
You two are amazing. Never stop, please.
Chandra, it is the tragedy of my LIFE that I didn’t see this in time for the comment awards.
So amazing.
It’s ok, I’m still working on it:
Up where they judge
Up where they shun
Up where they pray away their gay son
For Jesus’ sake
Wish I could take
Over the woooooorld
(You guys really must stop encouraging me)
No no @chandra keep going and maybe submit it as a full fledged post because clearly we need more
@clochou If I get some collaborators we could make it a full-blown musical
Yes like a crossover between Fun Home and Book of Mormon :o.
The most extreme forms of Christianity are mere moral lament and finger waging!? Someones sounds like they’ve been living in a cave! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence
Also I find you’re talk of a “Machiavellian plot” more than a little amusing, since the backlash against LGBT rights (lead by groups and leaders of various religions) has been largely dependent on spreading panic through the notional of a radical gay agenda. A uniting notion of a sinister cable that threatens to devour us all, similar to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion meant to demonize Jews. They might as well call it The Protocols of the Elders of San Francisco.
Yeah, nope. Freshman year at my evangelical liberal arts alma mater, in my required freshman seminar class about the role of Christians in society, we were expected to debate whether or not Christians should take over the government through democratic means in order to implement Old Testament civil law as the law of the land. Including the stoning homosexuals, adulterers, and rebellious children part. This was a popular topic for debate on my campus message boards.
This is very real and the end game is to turn America into a Christian version of Saudi Arabia.
That is just frightening.
“Christians who at their most extreme lament sex outside marriage or what they consider deviant sex or taking a life in the womb, which they consider wrong (it kinda is), or having bathrooms just for boys and girls. Horrors! That’s about as bad as it gets, folks”
That is not as bad as it gets. I also grew up in a similar religious cult and these groups of people who call themselves Christians actively brainwash their children – that’s not hyperbole, they use methods of indoctrination that are categorized as brainwashing by scientific and psychological associations. These groups are for exterminating all queer people, they just know that up until now declaring that desire out loud wouldn’t win them any allies. They are for forced conversion therapy. They are for forced sterilization of groups they consider sinful.
This isn’t people wanting to live they way they choose. This is a huge group of people demanding that everyone ELSE live they way these people decide they should, and are willing to make laws that ensure it. They are terrifying. I know. I was one.
No, it’s not painful at all to believe there is something fundamentally wrong with you. To pray and be baptized, in constant fear of eternal damnation, so god will fix you. To know everybody in your life, people you love more than anything else in the world, will turn there backs on you if they knew you were gay. Because according to them you are an abomination. To spend years trying to ignore or get rid of that nawing feeling in your gut that they are right. Because even though intellectually you know it isn’t true you still feel it. To no longer consider yourself a christian and not believe the bible is the word of god yet feel the shame and the fear. Constantly being on guard and afraid to live your life so you aren’t rejected, beaten, or killed in the name of god. To spend most of your life seriously considering ending it. And then spend years trying to dig out of that crap. All because of other people’s faith. It’s incredibly naive to think these views do no harm. Domestic terrorism is overwhelmingly committed by “good christians”. I understand the concern people may have with the language. The author shared her own personal experience. She did not make a blanket statement saying all christians do this. Every person lives their own experiences. Just because mine aren’t the same as others that doesn’t make mine or theirs less valid.
Hi Kathryn, I think I get how it could seem over the top, particularly if your experiences with the community referenced have been mostly positive–if in your view they’re mostly trying to spread Christian love, strengthen families, worship as they choose without interference, etc., I can appreciate that.
It becomes much harder to view the belief system positively when its adherents are making concentrated political efforts suggesting people like you are dangerous and should not have equal protection under the law. When, on account of its teachings and adherents, you or your friends have been kicked out of their homes as kids for acknowledging their sexuality, or when you or your friends worry about getting beaten up in public restrooms for being trans or gender non-conforming in part because of laws supported by the group in question, then it doesn’t seem so blameless. When people claiming to protect families have torn yours apart, their cause doesn’t seem innocuous.
I’m Australian. During the leadup to our 2007 Federal elections a candidate for our Conservative party (Liberal & Nation Party Coalition) ended up being dis endorsed by that party because of his public statements about the need to burn lesbians and gay men (and everyone else who is part of our group) at the stake. He was “silly enough” to state his evangelical group’s beliefs publicly in a national TV interview. The uproar was instantaneous and he lost his party endorsement.
Ten years later, others like him albeit, with the coolness to keep these particular ideas to themselves but openly supportive of many just as appalling, are now holding ministerial position within our now conservative government.
These people should be feared as they are toxic to society. They also should be respected, given just how clever and determined they have been to forward their beliefs.
If we want to defeat the influence of their beliefs on our societies, we need to know where they come from and how and why they have achieved so much already. Do not write them off.
Not sending sinners to the gulag YET.
What’s the difference?
Evangelicals are tainted by the worship of god. An unreasoned and unreasonable authority that extorts adoration and butt-licking. Love me, or suffer eternal punishment. Love at gunpoint is no kind of love.
God is not just, god is not truthful, god is not one.
The problem with fundamentalist Christians is they are forcing their views on other people, views that can take rights away. I spent 20 years in a church and it wasn’t even fundamentalist, it was kind of conservative, but I always knew the right-wing Christians in America were just something else. And I was taught to hate gays and blindly follow our conservative leaders and basically be close minded to the issues happening in the world.
All that we’ve worked for, including civil rights and women’s rights, marriage equality and LGBTI rights, could be taken away. And how about autism awareness movements and advanced medicine? All the right wing have to do is deny it and it’s gone. Imagine if they completely disregarded what Hans Asperger and Lorna Wing said and mild autism was no longer diagnosable anymore? I know so many people who will be utterly screwed by that. And what if they got rid of childhood vaccines? Women will have unsafe abortions that can damage their bodies. Fundamentalist Christians don’t actually care about human rights. They don’t. I’ve talked to them. They would vote to ban abortions before they vote to help the homeless, the disabled and people doing it tough on welfare. Those are the things the Bible tells them to care about and they don’t. All those services under Trump will be gutted. They also don’t care much about the environment which is also something Christians are meant to do. 90% of scientists support climate change because there’s actually evidence of it when you actually look into it.
They’re not Christians. They cherry pick the Bible and choose what ways to live.
I’ve been under a conservative Christian backed government for two years. They’ve already killed the live music scene making many venues and businesses in the area shut down. They’ve cut the aged pension. They’re destroying homes to put in a motorway. They’ve made up false claims that people on welfare owe them between $3000-$20,000. They’re forcing disabled people in low paid work. They are trying to build a mine close to a reef where many many species of sea life live.
In my experience Christians in government don’t look out for the common man or even the environment.
Because of my Christian upbringing I suppressed transgender feelings, so now I’m trying to re-visit them to see if I can finally be what I felt as a child. Churches are very indoctrinating, controlling and it’s bad for people who actually want to think for themselves.
By the way, I have nothing against more open minded Christians. I’ve just been subject to a lot of conditioning growing up. It’s something that still fills me with anger.
Hi fellow Australian. I hope you feel that you can be yourself and feel better soon. I agree things are not good.
If we keep working at it we may be able to dump the LNP soon.
At least the ALP can usually be shamed into better behaviour much of the time. Not ideal though, I know.
“They are not sending sinners to the gulag, no beheadings here, no gays tossed off buildings, no burning folks alive for blasphemy.” No, not yet.
Give them a few months. They cannot fail to do these things. It’s part of their programming as to how to treat those who defy them.
Listen to Today’s Issues on American Family Radio to hear demonizing and marginalizing in action. Then think about where that brain process leads.
Finally, someone responding with an open, commonsense mindset! Thank you!
I know *you* understand this, because you’re doing it – but I’m going to explain for people reading
This reply is a great example of some classic tactics of dismissal, where the actual argument matters less than the way this person is framing the writer
These words encourage you to believe the writer is psychologically unsound in an attempt to undermine their testimony and analysis. So all it boils down to is ‘this person must be crazy, don’t believe them’
Considering the article this is in response to, this reply is pretty revealing of the intent of the person behind it
Yes, Kathryn, this all sounds like a lot of hyperbole and wildly inflated, but I think you have missed the central tenet of this article. The far right, ‘Chrisitofscists’ want to take over, and IMPOSE their views on the whole country. They literally want to establish a theocracy. Do you think there is the slightest room in that for women’s reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, immigrants rights, etc, etc?? The LGBTQ community isn’t ‘promoting a worldview,’ they simply have wanted the very same civil rights that straight people hold. I could not care less who people want to marry or what they want to do with their own bodies, but there are A LOT of people who think it is their business to regulate that. These whacked out, supposed ‘Christians’ want to do just that, to everyone.
You’re comment is so damn laughable I can’t even muster up anything in the way of a response. Do some damn research.
Read the works of R.J Rushdoony or Gary North. Yes, they do want to kill gays, atheists and other non-Christians. They just know they need to get enough power before they can get away with it.
The writer clearly states that he’s talking about a subset of extreme Christianity, and many of those who commented have stated that they came from similar backgrounds. This isn’t about those who might just have a stricter sense of the scripture, this is about the extreme and to ignore or diminish what they are is not just naive but similar to excusing the thought processes of those who would normalize extremism of any sort.
Maybe you don’t understand the issue of seeing someone as less than human, as less deserving of rights just because of their sexuality and gender identity race etc, but Emmett Till and Matthew Sheppard might be able to educate you. Maybe you don’t understand the issues (and death) that can come from things like strict abortion laws: I’d suggest you’d read this to get an idea: http://prospect.org/article/what-happens-when-abortion-outlawed
Things like this are the first step to beheadings and burnings – all you have to do is see how those places that you mock as being extreme started off as open as your country, the cycles of violence exist in human history and to ignore them will make you equally complicit when they happen. Pick up a history book and you might be able to learn that.
Kathryn the difference is that the mermaids and pirates and LGBTs don’t think EVERYBODY needs to be a mermaid or pirate or LGBT, and they don’t impose their laws on the lives of non-mermaids, non-pirates and non-LGBTs.
LGBT folks want to be allowed to marry each other but they aren’t advocating for straight people to NOT be allowed to marry each other. That’s the difference. We want everybody to have equal rights. Women want the option to have an abortion, they’re not requiring everybody to have an abortion or to even consider abortion.
Well. This comment is representative of exactly what she spoke of in her article. A response made by someone trained to argue, trained to respond to every negation of their belief, to outright lie about their intentions, knowing full well, that yes, their culture will eventually lead to gays being tossed off buildings, eventually folks will be burned alive for blasphemy, and pariah prisons will be established for retrain all those who do not comply. The difference here is fanaticism. It always leads to the devil eventually, and let’s face it, this is fanaticism at it’s worse. You’ve elected someone who is the antithesis of anything the bible has claimed as good, laid down with the devil so to speak, to that you can spread your Christian values.
Kathryn: before you discredit this article as exaggerated, ask yourself if you grew up in the far-right homeschool community. Do you know anyone who did? If you answer “no” to both those questions, you are misguided and/or deluded. I did and do. I can vouch for the author’s viewpoint. Many of us can. Their behaviour is far more dangerous and insidious than you think. They are not just nice people with different viewpoints and who are merely uncomfortable with sex.
“They are not sending sinners to the gulag, no beheadings here, no gays tossed off buildings, no burning folks alive for blasphemy.”
yet…
I appreciate the article, and am very sorry you grew up in such an extremist situation. This is just another example of how there are “normal” and “extreme” beliefs in every group. I am not at either end of the spectrum… but I agree with Karen.
The author was raised by a very small percentage of extreme Homeschool Christianity… so her views are going to be extreme.
To broadbrush Christians the way they are depicted in this article is (to use the Liberals favorite term), extremely INTOLERANT.
I think Christians want to feel they have the choice to live their values without having their heads chopped off, being demeaned because of their moral values, etc. The very same things that other “groups” want.
How many TV shows do you see where LBGT’s are made fun of, criticized, humiliated, etc?? Or what about Muslims? So if one thinks, “poor me”, I’m being marginalized by Christians, then you have much research to do. How many NON-extremeist Christian Ministries have you researched to see what they stand for, and what all they do to help people – not only Christians… or just in the USA, but all over the world? Samaritain’s Purse, for one. But many, many, others.
What I see from these organizations is love & compassion. But if one looks at everything from a filter of anger, hated or other distortions… you will not see truth.
Liberals are famous for saying they are “open-minded”… please keep that in mind when you do your research. Open your mind to the fact that not everyone agrees with you… and you aren’t necessarily “right”.
Rent “Hillary’s America”, and explain why BLACK historians would say that it was Democrats who started the KKK? It was Democrats who have supported abortion rights so the impoverished Black communities would keep their birth rates down?
Just as the author accuses Christians of having an agenda – so does every other group in America. You just don’t see Christians out protesting with offensive signs (F-U, etc) and hate-filled words. I find that Christians are more tolerant of the hate-speak than any other group.
Why are the LGBT, Black Lives Matter, and other groups not protesting the politicians who want open borders – which would allow Muslim Extremeists into our country? If you don’t believe me, do your own research. They already have a foothold in America, and their goal is to turn America into a Muslim Country. The ones who are here have been told to “lay low and blend in” to make it easier for more Muslims to infiltrate. I, for one, do not want to live under the oppressive Islamic Law. I don’t want to see gays and lesbians thrown off of buildings simply because of their sexual orientation! I don’t want to live under Sharia Law! But, I refuse to live in fear.
Bottom line, we should be working TOGETHER to become a nation that is SAFE from those who want to destroy the freedoms we enjoy. Whether you like it or not, America WAS founded on Christian beliefs. Read your “real” history books. Not the crap our education system is putting out there. It doesn’t mean we all have to live under that belief system, but we should be thankful that we live in a country where “law & order” is the norm. Why do you think so many people want to come to the US? We don’t believe it’s OK to kill anyone you choose… or steal what’s not yours, or kill someone because they have a different value system. Those beliefs are part of biblical truth. If America was not founded on the tenants of faith & freedom, none of us would have the right to be writing on this site without extreme punishment (if we disagreed with government). I find that the younger generation especially is very short-sighted. They seldom look back at history and see what our men & women fought for to give us the freedoms that we have.
So choose what you will, but ultimately quit whining because you don’t always get your way. I didn’t vote for Obama, but I respected his position as president while he was in office. And no, I didn’t agree with a majority of his agendas. But I believe he was put there for a reason… just as I believe Trump & Pence were put in the WH for a reason. That reason could be to protect you and I from those who want to destroy our freedoms.
You’re adorable. Nice work proving that Kieryn is telling the truth though.
This is a nice collection of partial and out of context facts. Nathan Bedford Forrest is considered the founder of the KKK. He was a confederate officer during the Civil War. He was responsible for the massacre of Union soldiers and free black men at Fort Pillow. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. The south was predominately Democratic until the Civil Rights Movement. Then the racist abandoned the Democratic party for the Republican party. It is true that most of the founding fathers were Christians. They were fleeing religious persecution. That is why they were very deliberate about maintaining separation of church and state. They did not want people of other faiths to be persecuted or second class citizens. So while it’s not completely inaccurate to say this is a nation founded on Christianity since the founding fathers and early settlers were Christian it is misleading. The constitution is very clear about not having a state sanctioned faith. It’s one of the few things that the majority agreed on. When you get your information from a movie directed at vilifying a person it probably isn’t going to be accurate. There should be multiple credible sources. Also, Trump and Pence have no intention of protecting anyone not white, rich, and Christian. I think the first few weeks of the administration bears this out.
This country arbitrarily applies the death penalty. Whether you believe in the death penalty or not the fact is we do choose who dies and who lives based on random guidelines from state to state. As well as the personal beliefs of the people on juries.
Terrorist attacks on American soil are overwhelmingly committed by white Christian men. I’m suppose to be afraid of the Muslim enemy lying in wait when in the meantime people like Dylan Roof and Timothy McVeigh are indiscriminately killing those they consider either inferior or who are philosophically different.
Christians don’t have offensive signs at their demonstrations? How about “god hates fags” or “AIDS kills fags”. “God created AIDS to kill fags”. “Homosexuals burn in hell”.
People who believe in the right to choose are not pro-abortion. I, for one, support a woman’s right to choose. It’s her body. I don’t know the story behind all the women seeking to terminate their pregnancy. It’s none of my damn business. And they don’t owe me or anybody else an explanation because it’s their body. Seeking to defund Planned Parenthood would be catastrophic for minorities and the poor. They would lose access to healthcare as well as safe and effective birth control. The same people who want to outlaw abortion are looking to cut benefits for poor families. Once the child is born they don’t care anymore.
The Republican congress has already voted to repeal measures to limit access to guns for mentally ill people. Every time there’s a mass shooting they say the problem is mental health care. But they cut funding for mental health resources and allow anybody who wants a gun to get one. I have a history of depression and suicide attempts. I have been committed to psychiatric facilities because of this. I should not be allowed access to a gun. I wouldn’t hurt others but like thousands do every year I may take my own life. I am grateful I survived my attempts. A gun would not have made that possible. Allowing people with serious mental health issues to easily access guns isn’t protecting anyone.
Samaritan’s Purse does provide services for impoverished countries. But they try to save you in the process. They only provide resources if they are allowed to spread their message. They are transparent and well ran but their ultimate goal is to “save” people.
You’re arguments are based on cherry picked information.
They’re not because they (so far) can’t. That you have been lucky enough not to meet these people, is something I envy you for – but the author’s description is neither over the top nor uncommon. These people are out there – count your blessings you haven’t met them.
OMG – I don’t know whether to laugh at the naivete’, or snarl at the intentional blindness. Those people are out there – they’re out *here*. I meet them on a regular basis. Pretending they’re not, or pretending that your not knowing any means anything, are about equally foolish.
I don’t even know how to argue with someone like that. Maybe a couple of weeks following me around at my job… and mine isn’t even social services or anything like that. I just meet these people at random, *regularly*.
And your idea of “most extreme” is hilarious.
“a group that is little different than any group trying to live their beliefs and promote what they believe to be the best world view for how to live as human in a temporal world. How is what they are doing different from everyone else?”
How is it different? The other groups seeking a “piece of the identity-rights pie” are not trying to say you cannot be Christian, whereas the conservatives in these “Christian” groups are trying to legislate discrimination against those who do not see the world as they do. They are trying to legislate Christian prayer into classrooms, legislate making abortion illegal, legislate denying birth control, legalize discrimination against LGBTs. They are not just trying to live their own lives as they see fit, they are trying to make everyone else live their life, their religion. Or did you miss that point, made repeatedly, in the article. Have you missed how they have attempted many times they have tried to ban books that don’t agree with their teachings and beliefs from public education. How they have attempted for get biblical creationism instead of evolution taught. How they promote religious inclusion in government for Christians, but not other religions.
That is how they are different.
They don’t just “lament” at their “most extreme.” They actively try to make their religious code the law.
First of all, climate change is a proven geophysical phenomenon, not a belief system. You don’t have to believe that the sun rises in the morning. It just happens.
The Quiverfull philosophy expects you, as a woman, to become a baby-making machine in your mid-teens. Your body and reproductive system will be controlled by a man, who will impregnate you when he chooses. This situation will continue until you’re no longer capable of having children. Your life will serve no other purpose. And you’ll go along with it because you will have been brainwashed into thinking that your uterus is a weapon against non-believers.
It’s true that there are no beheadings or people being burned alive. Just plain old sexual slavery. Not that different from the behavior of certain radical Islamic groups who also happen to be terrorists. Do you really think there’s a moral equivalency between sexual slavery and LBGT advocacy?
“LGBT groups promote their worldview and are activists in politics.”
LBGT groups are not literally trying to take over the country. That is not their agenda no matter what Evangelicals and the right believe.
“Climate change acolytes have their priests and are activists in politics.”
Seriously? It’s called science. It’s called cold, hard facts. And once again, their mission is not to have as many children as possible and raise them all in the same “religion” so as to outnumber everybody else. I mean, the name Quiverfull pretty much sums it up, doesn’t it?
“…Christians who at their most extreme lament sex outside marriage or what they consider deviant sex or taking a life in the womb, which they consider wrong (it kinda is), or having bathrooms just for boys and girls.”
Lament? Are you serious? It’s one thing to lament but another thing to pass laws against that which you lament. I don’t care that you or anybody else laments, as long as you don’t try to pass laws based on your judgment. I mean, there was a time when the intermarriage of blacks and whites was considered immoral and a bunch of other things and was against the law as a result. That is absolutely ridiculous. But interracial couples didn’t have the chance to ignore the finger waggers, because they weren’t wagging fingers. In some cases, they were swinging nooses from tree limbs. And that wasn’t so very long ago.
This is a group that is deliberately trying to take over the country and make their view the dominant one. Yes, that is scary stuff. No amount of rationalizing or gaslighting will change that.
It was pretty benign before this election. We are now in a Christofacsist regime. Once they get a foothold they will be stripping away the rights of anyone who does not buy into their form of religion. You can look at Fundamentalist Islam as a comparison. And yes, they do burn people alive, throw them off of buildings and stone them to death. Because they have a majority, because they can.
Kathryn, I agree with you. This is an extremely harsh, inflammatory description of people who choose to raise their children differently than liberals do. Don’t we all hope our children will grow up to have our beliefs & values? I have many friends who chose to homeschool their children. They & their children are the most loving people I know, with more patience & selflessness than I could ever hope to have! The teachings of Jesus in the Bible are not evil or intolerant. Intolerance is vilifying people who believe differently & considering them “terrifying”. Reading these things about homeschoolers & christian conservatives is like being in an alternate universe! I challenge all of you to get to know a homeschool family personally! I guarantee you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Plenty of us believe in the teachings of Jesus but don’t subscribe to the dangerous ideology that the author grew up in. To downplay or minimize her concerns make you seem like an imposter on this site. This sentence gives it away “This is an extremely harsh, inflammatory description of people who choose to raise their children differently than liberals do.” Um, no. I know first hand that what she says is true. We ignore it at our peril.
Perhaps you would say that…..or perhaps your group are not so extreme…….However, the article seems very frightening to me and highlights stuff I have read over here in the UK about far-right fundamental groups in the States. Be afraid, be very afraid – and watchful…..
Actually it is VERY different – how you can’t see it is beyond me but I will try to help you get it. These people are not fighting to live their way, they are fighting to force EVERYONE to live their way. Gays are not fighting to force EVERYone to be gay so that is not an adequate comparison. Climate change is another example, yes they are fighting for everyone to behave in a way that helps alleviate the problem but this is a stance based on scientific fact not imaginary religious beliefs. And finally, you are oh so very very wrong and missed the point of the article completely. You said the worst they do is wag their fingers and try to make people feel guilty. The entire point of this article is trying to tell you it is WAY WAY WAY worse than that. YES they actually are trying to make it impossible, if not illegal, for people to live in ways that don’t align with their narrow view point.
Sorry dear, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Many of us know first hand that everything the author wrote about is completely true. Anyone who denies it is naive. It’s not about the “identity rights pie.” Your reply makes you sound like an apologist for these people.
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Mods? ^
The muslim threat to this country has been completely exagerated to the benefit of the right wing. Even 9/11 when closely examined falls apart at the seams (in terms of how it actually happened and whos to blame). Once again, science and facts, science and facts. As one more person who has had contact with such extremist groups, i can attest to the veracity of this article. We have the largest military in the world, we have nothing to fear from muslims, get real. The entire rest of the world is afraid of us, for good reasons. But maybe if most Christians made education and travel in order to get a balanced world view a priority we wouldnt have to explain these basic concepts.
I dont see the problem being extremist Christians so much as the powerful elite who are using you and others like you to gain power over minorities, women and the poor. I think Christians think they are going to take over the nation, and the people doing the actual takeover are the super rich elite, which by the way i live with every day. I live in a very, very wealthy town where the global rulemakers get together everh year to decide the fate of this country. They have more money than most people know. As a Christian you should be outraged that these are the people you have helped secure power for.
I don’t think it’s an exaggeration, at all. I’ve been watching this movement since 1979 and have known people like this. In 1981 I worked in a Christian school that used the type of curriculum mentioned and I remember the parents, pastors, and other teachers: it was an “us” vs “them” mentality. When I left to go to university and become a teacher in the regular system, it took years for me to stop thinking I was doomed. You may not have experienced these extremes but clearly, many of us have.
If you believe in a loving God who is the creator wouldn’t you be the first to care about this world and His creation? If nearly all of the leading scientists in the world, who are intelligent people, who care about the world are agree bring any shadow of doubt he’s that’s it’s real, why wouldn’t you want to do song about it? I care about Climate Change because I’m a Christian. Can you think about it? Can you read a bit about it? I’ts not doubting God to think about things for yourself.
Kathryn, there is something basically disturbing about the Christian Right’s desire to mold our laws into instruments for taking away secular rights. We were formed as a republic with rights to freedom of religion but also freedom FROM religion. The movement she wrote about wants to repeal many of the rights we have fought so hard to gain because of a belief that this is God’s Will for America. Thankfully, most of us do not want a Theocracy.
Oh,OK, you must be talking about the reformed fundamentalists.
I really don’t think you get it. You might want to re-read the article, especially about Pence. This is a wake up call for all who are unaware of this movement to essentially destroy our democracy.
Not yet…that we know of.
Thank you Kathryn! What’s being said here is no different than what the most extreme Christian Right is saying about the progressive Left, that the other side is essentially evil, hysterical, can’t be reasoned with, is after absolute power, etc. This young lady doesn’t seem to grasp that she’s still a proselytizer, she’s only changed sides. Think Eric Hoffer: “The dislocation involved in switching from one passion to another–even its very opposite–is less than one would expect. There is a basic similarity in the make-up of all passionate minds.”
Passionate, fear-mongering, us-versus-them pieces seem like everyone’s favorite drug these days. It’s not surprising that many of them come from people speaking from personal experience…people are least likely to be level-headed about what they’re rebelled against or left behind. This all smacks of adolescent rebellion. All of our politics do.
I think we need to be very wary of people who say conversation is impossible, I can’t think of anything more undemocratic…or since we’re using this word so freely now, more “fascist.”
Please check out Mike Pence’s political record as Governor, and Atty Gen. Sessions record as well. These are not just your average right wing Republican politicos. They do not believe in the U.S. Constitution as written and can be very harmful to those who disagree with their belief of American values.
The problem is that they are trying to force their views on others. They are intolerant and hateful. I don’t believe these people are Christians – not from the same bible that I read. And they do want to ‘send sinners to the gulag’.
THANK YOU! If I read the word “terrified” one more time, I was going to puke. This is propaganda, straight out. I was an evangelical Christian for eight years. Yes they were kind of weird, but not this weird.
No this article is not over exaggerated, while I was not home schooled, it did not exist yet when I was in school, my father was a fundamentalists baptist minister and trust me that is exactly what they do. Everyone is wrong and going to hell unless they accept Jesus according to their doctrine. They want the entire country and it’s laws to be God’s (their gods) law. It is christian’s duty to spread gods word and win them over, born again, and go out and do the same thing. They say, and I heard this from my mother during a conversation, that Jesus cannot return until every ear on the planet has heard the word of god. So in other words Jesus will never return? I was taught that catholics were not christians. My catholic ex in laws, the priests and nuns and everyone else at the church called themselves christian. Everything is a sin. They want a church state, which, amazingly is one of the main reasons the founding fathers came here and wrote the constitution they way they did, to escape a church run state. If you know your history in Europe, whomever “God” decreed the King/Queen to be, you better hope that particular monarch followed your belief system otherwise you were forced to convert or be slaughtered, sometimes they may have given you a small time frame in which to leave before the slaughter began. A protestant monarch, catholics, jews and pagans slaughtered. A catholic monarch, protestant, jews and pagans slaughtered. That is what the extreme religious right wants here in this country. To force everyone to believe as they do. Look what they did when they first came to this land, tried to force the natives to their belief system, what they did to these people and their children was horrific. That is the way of the religious right extremists believe as I say or your blood will flow. Do not think I am exaggerating, these are the things I was taught. And trust me, if they get their way everything you said is not happening will happen, it has happened before and there is nothing that says it cannot happen again. Do you know that saying, If we do not learn from the past history is destined to repeat itself. I for one do not want to see that. Rant done. Respect.
This is the subculture I grew up in—all the groups you mentioned were immediately familiar, and people I knew were/are involved with them. My parents started homeschooling myself and my siblings initially because they thought it would be more academically rigorous and more tailored to individual kids’ learning styles, but they became noticeably more religiously conservative in their motives over years of involvement with the community. It gradually shifted to homeschooling mostly to “protect” their kids from the perceived dangers of secular influences in public schools—evolution, sex ed., “the homosexuals”, “the liberal agenda”…
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand spoiler alert, despite the total lack of exposure to anything LGBTQ-related in my younger life, I still turned out to be totally gay.
Thanks for sharing.
Congratulations on escaping that repressive world! Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us <3
Thanks so much for this enlightening article. You’re in a unique position to reach out to other victims of homeschooling, and I’m glad to have you on our team.You go,boi!
Sweet Sweet Jeebus. Every hair on my arms is at twelve o’clock. First, thank you.
Second, stay safe. Third, stay safe. No. Seriously.
HOW do we get this to go viral?
Ken Blackwell is in charge of domestic policy!
In all the churn and burn no one is paying attention.
Yikes.
I have a cat named Jeebus heehee
I will absolutely second all of this. I grew up Mormon, rather than Quiverfull and basically refused to be homeschooled, but I’ll second the sentiment Kieryn describes. These people actively and honestly want to take over the world. To make laws requiring everyone to live by their set of ideas. Logic does not reach them. They’re like the hosts in Westworld – they simply can not see things that they’ve decided would upset them. There is absolutely no reasoning with them because they are so convinced they are Right. It is horrifying. It is paralyzing. It is real.
This. I have heard the exact phrase “Take over the world” – usually couched as “When God’s faithful take over the world.” (meaning people who think like them) – and this is a goal and a thing that they can’t even imagine how it could be a bad thing, because… God…
I’m LDS and all of this is terrifying. I know a lot of differing options among my peers. Your comment suggested that the official stand by the Mormon church is in line with the article. I absolutely disagree, even to the point that they are the opposite. They encourage free thought, that we should do our civic duty but in no way guide us which party to join, and they even have official LGBT clubs on the BYU campus.
Your experience may be different, but I have lived in several states and this kind of thing is encouraged everywhere.
I’m not saying that there isn’t a bad apple, or even a bunch, but in no way is the LDS church officially participating in this kind of behavior.
I grew up in rural MO, and the mindsets were very similar among other kids I knew in the public school system. Terrifying. As a non-Christian who was religiously bullied in school, I’m not comfortable around Christians in informal social settings despite years of distance from K-12. Christians who want to talk religion with me today still want me to have read all of their sacred stories when they have read 0% of mine, and the implicit end goal seems to still be conversion, not mutual respect.
This article made me go cold. out of everything that I have heard about, seen, read, this article has scared me more than anything. I don’t know how to fight back, but I know I will figure it out. And I know I won’t be alone!
Blessed Be to that! I’ll fight however and wherever I can til the last breath. You can be sure you won’t be alone.
Oh Quiverfull, I forgot about them. I was homeschooled and ran across them a few times. These are some of the folks that give homeschooling a bad name. In trying to raise active citizens, they end up teaching their children to be well-spoken and hyper-religious. Most of the homeschooled kids I know swung to the Left as we grew older. Our parents didn’t realize what they taught us: we can convert people to the Left now. ;)
I take a certain comfort in that.
Oy. I was homeschooled/unschooled with a very non-religious liberal swing. I’m a huge proponent of homeschooling/unschooling, but also situations like this are so awful.
Thanks for writing what needs to be said!! You are a strong, brave beautiful woman! I have a hard time getting people who haven’t experienced the far religious right to understand the danger. In a world of tolerance, it is viewed as benign.
From:
An ex-fundamentalist, evangelical, far-right, conservative Christian turned liberal, feminist, homeschooling humanist.
Hi I think your support and comment are lovely but also the author isn’t a woman and pronouns are they/them
Chilling. Thank you for your insight.
omg i had no idea any of this existed. i’m terrified, all of a sudden The Handmaids Tale could be the future and not just a dystopian novel??? how can we fight this, how do we fight this? i always joked evangelicals are extremist christians just like members of isis are extremist muslims… as a catholic this whole thing is so bizarre and alien to me and it only seems to be a phenomenon in America?? again, how do we fight this if people like pence et al are already in power?
Unfortunately, for those of us who grew up in the subculture, The Handmaid’s Tale is all too real. My parents weren’t quiverfull like Kieryn’s, but if you’re in the Christian homeschool subculture it’s inescapable.
My old youth pastor gave me a marriage book for my high school graduation. I was seventeen. This wasn’t just any marriage book, mind you, it was a book that told women that if their husbands were beating them, the solution was to submit even more. That was the expectation that many people in my life had for me–to find a husband as soon as possible and start having children. If that husband beat me, well, it was my fault for not submitting better. If that crowd had their way, I’d have been in a marriage to a man I wasn’t attracted to, with half a dozen kids, by the time I figured out I was queer.
Everyone knew I was college bound with the plan to go to law school, but outside of my parents and a few other people, no one supported that choice because I was supposed to be married and having kids. I lost count of how many times I justified my decision to major in computer science instead of a more suitable for a homeschool mom degree like elementary education by telling people that I could code from home. I had no intention of doing that, but it was the only way to stop the questions.
Between the messages that I was supposed to be a submissive wife popping out a dozen children and the training to take over politically, when I finally read The Handmaid’s Tale in law school, it was like reading the story of the life I was supposed to have.
I take it that you’ve never heard of the Society of St. Pius X? I was a member in the 1970s and I can tell you this was going on even back say around the early 1970s. Now I don’t know how end-times oriented the clergy is, but many of the laity are Last Day wackos. And they home-school. I’m no fan of the New Mass myself (I think they should just have started doing the Tridentine Mass in the local language). But these people go WAY beyond that. I honestly could write a book on it.
Apart from Michael Farris, who are the politicians and lawmakers that come from this ultra-conservative homeschooled background?
Too many to list. Pence, Terry, Jindal, Perry, Ralph Reed, Huckabee… It goes on but I haven’t had coffee yet
And a lot of local level politicians.
Also, Sonny Perdue, who has direct ties to Bill Gothard’s ATI cult, to add another name
Every single republican voted into office since President Obama was elected……..especially the tea partiers…………
I appreciate your article! What you have described looks absolutely nothing like Jesus. They may be using the term Christian but there is nothing Christ-like about it-Not the mission, the purpose, the methods or the outcome. As a Christian, I am deeply saddened.
This ^^
This article really spoke to me because I spent a few years in Christian Homeschool education. I actually enjoyed the lessons as they let me work at my own pace and well, I was raised Christian so I didn’t mind almost every subject being about God. But I just begun to look into them and well they seem to echo the same views as Generation Joshua but are less focused on getting Christian kids into government.
This is I guess, their platform: https://www.aceministries.com/aboutus/pdf/Great_Commandment_Commission.pdf
I haven’t read all of it but I guess after spending 10 years away from this type of language it feels very indoctrinating.
I am a Christian. I have my own issues with that. Being born and raised into a church, I never felt like I had a choice in what beliefs should be. Two churches I went to were cults and I was taken in by a false prophet. I just want to have my faith and not get in the way of anyone’s beliefs. I’m also transgender so I’m dealing with a lot of cognitive dissonance I guess you can say. I know what I feel and I know what I feel is right but I also have this strict Christian upbringing that I just can’t reject. I also became quite far-left in my teens years. First communist then anarchist and now I’m pretty comfortable as a Trotskyist socialist.
I’m a pretty confused person these days but I know one thing is for sure: religion doesn’t belong in politics. I don’t care if I end up in Hell. I firmly believe that you can’t force your views on a multitude of people with different beliefs or no beliefs.
OHMYGOD I FORGOT ABOUT ACE
I was trained for a similar movement North of the border – Canadian neo-fascists are less religious, more under the guise of that brand of “libertarianism” which amounts to “a totalitarian regime where I and people like me are the ones who call the shots,” but they employ a lot of the same techniques and strategies.
Like the Quiverfull group, though, they do believe in outvote, outbreed, outactivate, and they brainwash their kids to be good little neofascists.
And it took for me, really well. For years. I was finishing up my master’s degree before I even started to doubt. It’s fucking scary how well the brainwashing gets you. Weirdly, the first crack was climate change – I wound up getting a project on carbon capture in grad school and I approached writing the intro as a trick to try to find evidence to “disprove” it (this was around the time of the Climategate scandal so climate change deniers had a lot of fuel for the fire). Except, when I actually got into the literature… everything seemed to support it. So I dug deeper. And all of that supported it. And I looked for flaws, and where there were flaws they weren’t deal-breakers in terms of study design and oftentimes repeat studies which filled the gaps had been done. And there was study after study after study, thousands of them, and hundreds of different approaches and thousands of different lines of evidence and virtually all of it pointed in one direction, and that direction wasn’t my direction. So I looked into the denialist side of things and it’s like cherry-picked data left, right and centre, and massively flawed studies all over the place, and so on and so forth. Stuff like “Climate change stalled from year X to year Y!” … well yeah but it also continued unabated after year Y and also the stall was due to the well known global cooling effect of Z phenomenon so if you superimpose the average warming trend with the cooling effect imposed by Z, you’d expect it to stall… that it stalled isn’t evidence against climate change – that it didn’t cool is evidence of it! By the time I was done the literature search it was like, “Well. Crap. I was on the wrong side of this one.”
Which then got me thinking “If I’m on the wrong side of that one, what else am I on the wrong side of?” So I started with gay rights because I’d known I was bi since my teen years and it was always one of those things I kind of viewed as a personal weakness because I’d been brainwashed that SSA people are damaged (I’d been sexually abused as a kid which fit the narrative) or pedophiles (terrified the heck out of me because of my own history), and I found that.. nope. And conversion therapy doesn’t convert you straight but it does make you more likely to kill yourself. So I’m on the wrong side of that. Well, feminism! Surely that’s a lie, right? Nope. Free market health care? Haha no. Well, surely it’s better for disabled kids to be excluded from the classroom? Actually everyone does better with inclusion – oh, and you’re autistic. Oh. Crap. Trans rights? Nope, oh and the trans experience is something that resonates with me at the core and hey guess what I’m a trans dude and that’s why I’ve spent my entire post-puberty life hating my body and wishing I could cut certain parts off and thinking I would’ve been a better boy than a girl…
I’m not and have never been a religious person, but my experience with the deprogramming was almost like a crisis of faith – once the solid face of belief is chipped, it starts to crack. The crack spreads and spreads, and finally you hit the point of no return and everything just shatters all at once. It was quite honestly the most painful period of my life – and I’m still emerging from it. The most difficult part is this sense of deep shame regarding the-me-that-was 10+ years ago and this driving need to make up for the things I did out of ignorance and brainwashing.
My point I guess is that your experience is probably more common – and more international – than you think it is, sadly.
I’m a Christian, but as liberal as Jesus was…rainbow flag waving, tree hugging, lefty left left Christian and I just want to hug you all and apologize and say this stuff just is NOT RIGHT! I am SO sorry you were so horribly abused in the name of God by men who bastardized religion to their own ends! It repulses me and infuriates me.
It also scares me. Every day I watch what is coming down with the current GOP and it feels like we are helpless to stop it. I know we can’t be. I know that part of this has to be a last gasp effort to try to swing our country back to pretend time that never existed, but it is still fucking scary.
Yeah, I’m a Christian public school teacher and I say fuck and you know what, Jesus loves me anyhow.
A big hug to you, ChemGeek. This and you are our hope. I grew up Hindu, in a household of people who experience the Partition of India and Pakistan. I wasn’t indoctrinated (went to Jesuit school, and I think the upbringing and school cancelled each other out), and reached my point of crisis around the end of college, into my Masters too.
Education and the personal integrity of people gives me hope. That more will come to their own truths, (because the idea is true) if we have an environment where people can get access to data and learning…
Thank you for this article! It was very informative and incredibly scary to read. I’d also like to print your final sentence on a shirt and walk around in it all day, and I’m safely in Europe (which does have it’s very own problems and plenty of them, and we need to work on this shit for real). I’ve only very recently encountered crazy christian americans for the first time, and as a scholar who knows the bible for professional reasons (and a flaming atheist) their inner workings made me run for the woods screaming. I also waved a rainblow flag in their face, of course. We gotta do what we gotta do. People, I hope you’re all safe. Be careful, and if possible loud. You are the resistance.
Please do not try and place all homeschoolers under the umbrella of the HSLDA and Evangelical folks. There are those of us who homeschool for purely secular reasons – because we want to give our kids a more robust and individual education full of logic and reason, not to train them as soldiers for Christ. Please ensure that any and all articles that bash homeschoolers as a group like this include the idea that there are many people homeschooling for secular reasons and our concerns and valid and separate from religious homeschoolers.
Indeed. These are the reasons we chose to homeschool our children. Public education is failing because the curricula are being watered down by state school boards that are infested with right-wing Christofascists.
Then this article isn’t talking about you, is it? Secular homeschoolers ought to be fighting this harder than anybody, because you stand to lose if they take over. Perhaps you should speak out against fundamentalist homeschooling instead of pulling the #NotAllHomeschoolers card.
This piece was written as known and experienced by the author. The Fairness Doctrine as applied to broadcasts after WWII was removed during Reagan. Though this is a written piece, it still follows that the author has no obligation to describe what she did NOT experience, especially considering that more than one viewpoint is not presented in the atmosphere she grew up in. That is largely the point of this article, actually.
Seriously, if you cannot read this article without thinking “Oh this must be talking about me” then you lack some serious critical thinking skills.
Do you belong to the Quiverfull movement? If the answer is no, they are not talking about you.
Just because you are a homeschooler, and she was homeschooled, does not mean they are talking about you.
If you cannot separate the two, you need to go back and re-read the article without that bias, or perhaps you should not be educating your children. Just sayin’
Thank you for sharing your story.
My large, atheist, activist, homeschool family is working hard to do what we can within our diverse homeschool community as well as in the bigger picture. We are out there, and we are gaining strength!
This makes me so happy <3
Wow! I grew up as the daughter of a pastor and forced to participate in Operation Rescue and watching my dad get arrested for blocking abortion clinics. It disturbed me then and disturbs me even more now to know its this deep. We are the resistance!
We can’t change the “Christofacists” with our science.. but we can teach them through their own doctrine.
Jesus was a leftist. Religion of his time and his teachings were done through storytelling; the there were reoccurring themes, slightly different choices which caused different outcomes. Religious scholars tell us that these stories where the means to teach rules to a largely illiterate populace.
We can’t turn a “Christofacist” with science, but we can help them see the light through scholarly presentation of their Bible!
We can gently nudge the “Christofacists” into the epiphany that their teachings have been tainted by the Anti-Christ..& that our job is not to judge, but to love ❤️.
For an example of how this war can be won, checkout this Brilliant, young theist pastor, Katsuya (Kats) Omine, at the Westlight Community Church in Los Angeles, CA.
Kat’s casual, sometimes self effacing delivery is enjoyable “edutainment” on the Highest Order.
To hear his teachings, you’ll have to go to your smart phone’s App Store & download an app called BulletonPlus.
Then hunt through all the churches to find Westlight Community Church.
———-
I am an agnostic, who is active in Westlight’s Free Methodist Church. The result of a “mixed marriage” (Roman Catholic & Orthodox Jew), raised and taught comparative religion in the Unitarian Church & as an Anthropologist, before attending a Jesuit Law School.
Your comments are very helpful. Would love to see you write a piece outlining a strategy for us — I suspect most of us are very naive about how the pieces of this puzzle fit together. We need to know specifically what we can do to fight it.
My experience, however, is that as soon as you cast *any* doubt on absolute inerrancy of the Bible, they quit listening.
Fought against how? I hear and believe you. I’m surrounded by these people. But it sounds hopeless. What do we do?
By getting our own children to understand how government works and to be interested in something besides pop culture and themselves.
Thank you thank you. Amazing and terrifying and fantastically well written. In these dark times it would be inspiring and hopeful to hear the story of how you came to critical consciousness. I hope you’ll consider sharing that part of the story- we certainly need it.
I don’t know how we go about fighting back in any real effective way but I think that in one of the other comments above, the author seemed to suggest that this article was the first of a series.
I really hope so, this fight is going to be essential, I think.
Your essay lays out the problem; the “enemy” is well-prepared, numerous, already entr nched in government at all levels, and irrational. “They” can’t be persuaded, or reasoned with. You conclude with the admonition that the only method available to “us” (rational liberals and/or progressives) is to to “resist”…particularly to “fight back”. I have r we numerous people, from Rachel Maddow, to Robert Reich, to Bernie Sanders, to Keith Olberman, saying the same: rising, fight back. What–precisely–does this mean? I want to resist, I want to “fight” (using the structure of our laws and government to press for individual rights and freedom for all) but, what exactly should I do? What does “fight”, mean? What specific steps should someone who wants to “resist”, actually take? Thank you for your time.
Any advice on just how to fight back?
Very well written, insightful, and informative. This could be made in to a horror movie quite easily! Thank you, Kieryn, for the fantastic article.
My husband’s 4 children were home-schooled and home-churched by his ex wife and her “pastor” step-father. For the past 16 years we have lived in a parental-alienation hell. The now adult children have false memories of us implanted in their minds that they believe are true. At some point we became “characters” to them rather than people. These “Christofascist” are very real. This article is 100% accurate, and if we don’t pay attention, we’ll only realize what’s happened when it’s too late. I pray these 4 people, that we still love very much, find the strength to one day break free as well. “Believe in the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free”.
This is the first time I’ve been on this site, and I have to say how impressed I am by both the article as well as the comments. These are real conversations handled respectfully. What a joy to find this. I hope to spend more time here.
Comment Award!!!
Autostraddle, best comment section of all time
WELCOME, KATHERINE!
Aw, I love new people! Welcome!!
Fascinating and horrifying. Most interested in how you, Kieryn, came to change your mind about what you had been taught, and whether you have been estranged from your family as a result. In your story, I see hope for others in Quiverfull, though I’ve pretty much given up on those poor Duggar girls …
You are an ignorant jackass.
Well, that’s not very christlike.
To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen:
“and you sir, are not God…”
And you don’t exist.
Kieryn, I just have to applaud your courage. Leaving your family and community – all that you knew, really – couldn’t have been easy. Thank you for educating us on this. You are mighty and strong.
I have to ask, where does environmentalism fall into their ideology? I don’t mean being a “hippie”, I mean, preserving the earth and being its stewards as God supposedly called people to do. Do they just ignore that? You’d think they’d have more to say against the destructive ways of modern agriculture and wastefulness, and be against things like oil pipelines and fracking. Surely God doesn’t want humanity to destroy earth?
My chemistry teacher is a Christian and one year for Earth Day chapel, he talked about how on the 7th day God rested, and this is an example of how we should have a balance of benefiting from the earth’s resources, but also spending time giving back and restoring those resources. Letting the Earth rest/recover, essentially.
By and large, they believe global warming is a hoax, that the environment is fine, and that environmentalism is a socialist plot.
Also that the end of the world is imminent, so if we’re doing something that is going to destroy the earth in a hundred years, no biggie, we (or at least they) will be gone by then anyway.
To these nutcases, God is going to destroy humanity anyway so the environment is irrelevant
Oops, should have scrolled down, I see I was being redundant.
Sounds like the systems that allow this line of thinking are totally ingrained into Federal homeschooling legislation and state / local government offices. Against this sort of cemented opposition, how do we fight? Great article, don’t get me wrong, I just can’t see a way to combat this strong of a zealatous fanatical base.
Wait for Tom Cotton to die I guess?
Thank you for this article. I’ve come into contact with the strain of homeschooler Christians that you’ve described, both in my personal and professional life. I was part of a Bible study group in college where some members believed a moderate version of what you’re describing, as well as spending unending hours talking about the Genesis narrative and contrasting it to science. I don’t know why I stuck around for so long, but doing so definitely delayed my realization that I’m queer!
very interesting.
stories about how people who have been brainwashed begin to change their view of the world are very important.
i look forward to such a prequel.
well I for one WILL FIGHT to MY DYING BREATHE to PROTECT MY RIGHTS, and Those of The People I Love…..Black, Women and LGBTQ….. F with me – and I F with YOU 10 FOLD! ..its no wonder Im an ATHEIST NOW/.
Brilliant article! I was just having a conversation with my son about how so many people fear Muslims, which makes no sense when we have the far-right trying to force their religion on all of us.
I am not trying to be a fear monger. I’ve known about this for a while, and it’s why I believe that there will be another civil war in this country. It’s just a matter of when. While we hear a lot about Muslims, ISIS, Sharia Law, Islamic Extremists, these “Christofascist” ain’t no better. We are going to have a fight on our hands.
There won’t be a civil war. The group is far too small in proportion to the larger population). But a large cult-like resistance many times larger than the Branch Davidians, willing to fight to the death? Sure, that could happen.
I was also home taught, thankfully, not for religious or “Protect the children” reasons. My parents always gave me the option of going to school, but I always turned it down. As a result I had an interesting childhood, growing up in a music store and acting as a clerk long before most people start working. It was a pleasant way to grow.
But that said, it’s horrifying that so many people brainwash and push their agenda onto their children, how hard it is for those children to break out of it. You’re a lucky one, many of these commenters are lucky as well.
The fight is coming, and sadly I’m certain that blood will end up spilled in the long run. But I hope that everyone knows that talking, that backing down, that remembering everyone is human is always an option. It’s a shame that brainwashing is such a difficult thing to undo…
Stay strong peeps. Stay strong.
Kieryn, I homeschool and my kids participated in NCFCA. I didnt feel the pressure to take over the US for Christ but rather to teach kids how to discuss issues in a Christ-honoring way. However, there are many types of homeschoolers and Christian beliefs as Ive come to understand. I was caught up in supporting groups that you mentioned to take our country back to Christianity. Lol. I’ve since been ‘awaken’ to the sham that these groups are. I’m afraid the rabbit hole goes much deeper than you even know..yet. I’ve researched and truly believe now that those behind ALL of these groups are tied to the true goal of a one world order. You may not want to believe it but behind the scenes I believe the leaders work hand in hand with groups from the left. The culture war keeps us agitated and distracted. Dont fall for it. You are smart.Dig into freemasonry. Check out Luciferianism. Start there to see what religion really runs the world.
You’re approaching the edge. seek help.
You are ignorant. Seek information.
It’s sad how few of us know what’s really going on. But I wanted to make this account just to upvote your comment and let you know that you aren’t alone. Let me also suggest researching into the jesuits, because ultimately, all roads lead back to rome.
It’s interesting that these soldiers for ‘christ’ believe themselves to be against catholics while ultimately serving the agenda of the vatican; it goes to show how the power pyramids are nested inside of each other in a way that each layer has a different idea of who their master is. We can rest assured that even the vatican itself is but a pawn in a larger game.
And whose “larger game” might that be? I’m always interested in knowing who’s behind everything in the minds of dedicated conspiracy theorists.
Thank you for your insight into a world of which I was not aware; rather, to what extent its tentacles reach. Props to you for escaping their clutches. Keep up your writing!
Wow, super useful and very brave. Please help think of solutions to act on. Obvious first move is to form very similar movements with the progressive message, we have missed out on our commitment to sharing and teaching a liberal, compassionate, inclusive agenda. The suggestions that you might have and the people that are commenting (also bravely ) on this string could be very useful – Keep writing. !
Here is something I’m working on trying to start in Philly – albeit on an adult-education level. The idea, though, if it works, may be adapted not only to other cities, but maybe to childhood education too: https://www.facebook.com/groups/philadelphiastoa/
Holy cow, do I feel this. We weren’t part of the organized end of it, but the ideology is all there. I was raised a survivalist, homeschooled for years, taught that Christians were persecuted in this country, and that it was going to get worse. My brother and I were denied basic medical care for many years, relying instead on “faith healing”. My mother nearly let me die of an ear infection.
All of this resonates. This was the culture I grew up in, a culture of fear, and hatred of anything and anyone different. A deeply racist culture. A powerful narrative that has put distance in between me and my family for decades now.
Oh my god faith healing. I’m so sorry. I have literal scars from this as well <3 <3 <3
This + this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvsb8f6mL4E
My childhood best friend and her family were part of this movement. I remember being around 8 or so and her father sitting me down to teach me about “straight pride” (apparently he saw the queerness in me before I did). It was incredibly manipulative and I remember even as a kid pushing back against that idea and he made me do “bible homework” before being allowed to hang out with daughter again. They were also actively trying to convince me that I was a product of sin (and inherently representative of sin?) since my mother wasn’t married when she had me. That’ll do a lot to fuck you up as a kid and I wasn’t even directly part of that movement.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us, Kieryn.
Kieryn Darkwater , That is the most terrifying thing I’ve ever read. Now how do we defeat them?
I’m the parent of three homeschooled young adults – 18,23, and 25. You are spot on about the culture! As a deeply religious, conservative Catholic family we didn’t fit in that culture, but we have many friends who were part of it. Lately, I’ve been seeing these kids – MANY – turn away from the politics of their parents, becoming outspoken pro-whole life and diversity activists. It’s a beautiful thing and keeps me hopeful during these crazy time.
Yes, parents taught their kids to think critically, analyze, and respond well beyond their public school peers. Now those kids have met the rest of the culture and expanded their sources, those very skills lead them away from patriarchy. Not all, but from what I’m seeing some of the best and the brightest.
Kieryn, can you tell us about what led you out of the right-wing Christian community you were raised in? Was it a gradual process or an all-at-once ‘epiphany’ moment? If you haven’t written an essay about this already, I hope you’ll do so.
I’ve been documenting it for years :) http://mxdarkwater.com/category/healing-and-awareness/christianity/
Just an aside, the word ‘kiran’ (pronounced the same way as Kieryn, I expect) in Hindi means ‘ray of light’.
It made me smile, I hope it does that for you to.
It is critical to understand the scope and influence of the Christianist organization that refers to itself as ‘The Family’ ( http://a.co/gzjXxa6 ) at C Street ( http://a.co/44wFige ).
this comment has been removed b/c it was racist
Moderators please remove this comment
Thank you!!! SO useful, and we need all the intel we can get. Thank you thank you thank you!!!
So what is their response to God granting humans free will?
Thanks!
sometimes Calvanism/Predestination? which is like, god knows what’s gonna happen so nothing you do matters/is out of god’s plan, so you don’t really HAVE free will.
It’s been a while so my calvanism could be rusty but that was one way of dealing with it.
Also was….ignoring it. or justifying things in olympic level gymnastic feats.
The question is: How can we prove that this single-person anecdote is emblematic of what’s actually going on in the Christian world? How do we know if this bat-shit crazy stuff is prevalent? Are a majority of “home schooled” Christian children brainwashed to “outbreed everyone for Jesus”? (Though, I don’t deny that’s likely; I’ve also heard some liberal friends say the same. In the end, this world does get tribal, which I eschew.)
I’m not the only voice on this, in fact buried in the comments are many many many other homeschoolers or people of similar religious upbringing that confirm this. Many people have written about this. Kathryn Joyce has written extensively about this subculture as well: http://prospect.org/authors/kathryn-joyce
Much of this is also documented by these organizations, I have access to archives and speeches that have said these things. Tim Echols of Teenpact told a room full of teenage girls that we needed to get married and have babies ASAP in 2007.
I’m a Christian homeschooler. I have 3 boys, and am done. I have also never talked to my kids about outbreeding people for Jesus. I am also not saying these people don’t exist, but most people I know who also homeschool, have a couple of kids, and are done.
This has also been documented by Homeschoolers Anonymous (https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/) and Love, Joy, Feminism (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/).
I’ve written about my own experiences as well, you can read my personal stories here: https://kathrynbrightbill.com/tag/i-was-a-teenage-activist/, and pieces about the broader movement with documentation here https://kathrynbrightbill.com/?s=hslda
I meet these people on a regular basis. Now, I do live in a bit of a backwater, but there’s a fair sized city nearby, and the internet and libraries and such are available. I’m pretty sure the further out in the boonies you get, the easier it is to maintain this, and even if there are only an equal number of folks like this all over, that’s a *lot* of crazy people.
This isn’t Christianity this is white supremacy.
you’re not wrong
Christofacism (or what I’ve known as Dominionism) has been a secret weapon of the GOP since the 70s. While the author talks about homeschooling, this movement is also a big reason the GOP supports Vouchers in education. The ruse is that it will help disadvantaged children, but what it really does is funnel government money to religious institutions. Evangelical Christian schools really started proliferating after desegregation laws started to have some real teeth in the South. This coincides with the turn of white Southerners away from the Democratic Party because of the Civil Rights movement. Without the support of these people, the GOP would be a permanent minority party.
Also, regarding the question of manipulating Donald Trump, I would say that the argument cuts both ways. People like Trump, Bannon, Mnuchin, Tillerson and Kushne, think they are the ones manipulating these simple backwater folks who will allow them to lower taxes on the rich, pollute in their backyards, and foreclose on their homes as long as they fight against Roe v Wade and “the gays”.
Rather than talking policy with Christofascist politicians like Pence, the media should start every interview with one simple question: “Vice President Pence, am I going to hell?”
Yep. Corporate America and Christian extremists have been using each other to sneak their agendas into politics and legislation for decades. What’s the word for an evil symbiosis?
I believe the word is “Republican”
The Duggars and Bateses follow Bill Gothard’s teachings which are exactly what this essay talks about. The fact that they are promoted on TLC and UP TV is terrifying because it’s another way to normalize this sect of American’s who refuse to accept facts. People and US Magazine also normalize them with front cover stories. This is insidious stuff and we ignore it at our own peril.
Would like to hear more from this author about how, given this upbringing, a breakaway occurred.
peruse my archives: mxdarkwater.com
This has been an 8 year journey. :3
This is nothing short of a cult, and deprogramming needs to happen in the same way that it happens for other cults. We need to start thinking of it as such. I am a Christian. I would never try to push my beliefs on another person. We are supposed to lead by example, not by tyranny.
I am a former juvenile prosecutor who attempted to help a child who was home schooled and who I had ample evidence was being abused. I was contacted nastily by a national home schooling organization who told me I had no right to be interfering. Even for a child who was being beaten behind closed doors. These are very powerful organizations and I appreciate your insight which is even more than I ever knew.
Thank you for sharing!
Yeah, this is one of the reasons we started the Coalition for Responsible Home Education. Kids like that were us or our friends. If you ever need resources on what to look out for and how to report things, or if you’d like to help a homeschool kid and don’t know how. We can probably point you to people. (responsiblehomeschooling.org)
My youngest son lived with his dad and grandma for a few years. Eventually my son was pulled from public school and,homeschooled(he lost a lot of fundamentals during that time) One night I picked him up for visitation and he tells me how sad it is the Jewish people aren’t going to heaven because they don’t believe in Jesus. Now this came from Grandma. She attends a Luthern church but you can’t prove it by me. I attended that church several times and never heard this message but I never sat in with kids during their teachings.
My oldest was attending a Baptist church for awhile until he came home and told me how Gay people are going to hell.
So tired of that kind of dogma. It’s demoralizing.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I was raised in a similar cult in the buckle of the Bible Belt before homeschooling was prevalent, but moved west as soon as possible after graduation. I think it’s important for people who have no context for how parents and religious leaders brainwash their children to be educated on why there are people with this perspective. Keep up the fight!
Thank you so much for this take. Your perspective is one I have, thankfully, grown up without.
A point of clarification if you please. You say there is no reasoning with this movement, this community. That instead we must fight. -Is this a suggestion that this threat can be answered in no other effective way other than with violence?
If your answer is yes to violence I urge you and all reading your article to consider that violence will betray us. It cannot be controlled. The institutions of state and control hold all the cards of violence and militarism. And even if the state were toppled the vacuum of power left would result in endless and spiraling bloodshed and horror. Uncontrollable by any party. Violence eventually spilling out between liberal groups with only slightly carrying agendas and perspectives.
A constant eruption of bloody universal bloody sorrow. That is the only fruit we could ever harvest.
If you are not suggesting violence then I am starved to hear your ideas. If you do not think we should use violence please lead us in thinking new strategies. But if yes indeed you are suggesting violence, then please think further.
Think instead organization. Nation wide strikes. Shutting the country down through economic means (the only counter conservative principle capable of countering christofascism (as you call it): we have the power if we organize. ECONOMIC STRIKES. Shut the country down peacefully until we are ready to open it back up for business under a governance that is not fascist, authoritarian.
Our understandabley fearful and angry emotions must be controlled and thoughtful. We must control them, they are too easily whipped up to violent and mindless curved and it is NOT how to stand up.
We can stand up against this regime, and we can do so without us violateing our humanity or our ideals by spilling the opposition’s blood.
Revolution does not have to look like bullets and blood and broken bodies, like the mythology of our country would portray,,, revolution can look economic. It can even be a revolution against our own violence.
Revolution yes. Violence NO. And we can do this.
Apologies for the typos/autocorrects.
“slightly varying perspectives and agendas”
And
“whipped up into violent and mindless fervor”
Appolgies.
I’m writing a follow up, don’t worry!
Excellent. Thank you again.
Serious question- why is your screenname an email address?
Yeah, that’s dumb. It is because I am not a member. I need to change that but at work and no longer on lunch.
If you have a suggestion how to remove my email addy that would be great.
Are you going to follow up this blog-article with more suggesting ways of fighting back?
Of course, your article is still important even if you don’t follow it up with such suggestions — but I’m still asking anyway because I would like to know how to best fight back.
yes, that’s currently in the works!
This is by far the one of the single best written explanations and correct descriptions of the TRUE theocratic encroachment. Hell yeah
I’ve been mentioning this in comment threads, but as it keeps coming up:
I’m currently putting together a follow up that details how to fight back. It wasn’t in this article because it was already approaching a small book :3 But yes, I have ideas, they’re being put into coherent sentences and then they’ll be put up here :)
Awesome, I can’t wait!
Thanks so much for the article. I was born and raised into an environment not quite so politically charged as you describe, but not so different either. I have plenty of friends who tow the party line. Last year was an eye opening experience for me that knocked me out of the reservation. I’d always been leaning conservative but suddenly I realized how foolish I’d been. I felt hoodwinked. So many of my friends are on this hook line and sinker. Only recently have I realized just how horribly toxic these type of people are if you venture just slightly outside of ‘normal.’ I believed entirely growing up that I was right. That the world was wrong. It broke my world when I realized how I’d been lied to so completely by people who don’t think they’re lying. I really don’t know how to feel. I felt mad at first but now I’m more sad. It’s horrifying to realize I’m up against people who don’t really value the lives of people, but the conversion of people. Whatever it takes to do that is fair game. I need a way to fight back. This is insanity.
Thanks so much for posting. It will help to have ideas on how to resist the radical evangelical right. Christofascists are no different from the radical Islamists! I had a discussion with a friend about this very topic 10 years ago. We never did reach agreement on how dangerous this thinking was. As you wrote, she held fast to her beliefs and used the Bible to back them up.
So many of you commenters say you’re scared. I’m scared, too. Let’s not sit in a corner being scared, ok? Let’s see this as a call to action to not let extremism rule the day. Band together and #Resist and such. Kthanks.
I too was not surprised. While I never grew up in the movement, I became aware of them shortly after 9/11 when I started to read about religious extremists, not just those from the Middle East, but all over the world. They are typically called Dominionists, which is the label I use in the science fiction novel I’m writing. I hope to have it published in a year or two. Got an editor. He’s great, but the trick is finding a publisher. Also, it still needs a lot of revisions. Hopefully it won’t be too late.
Understand, Trump is a threat for being unstable, but unless he destroyers the world with nukes (and with Trump, that’s not out of the question), Pence is the greater concerns. He has Trump’s ear and he will make sure that all Supreme Court picks are crazies from the dark ages. This will slowly push America, which has the most powerful army on Earth, towards becoming the Kingdom of God.
As a Canadian, there is very little I can do but write my story and hope it gets publish. The American people have no idea that this threat exists. The media dismisses the Dominionists as harmless. They are too worried about the jihadists. Don’t get me wrong. The jihadists pose a grave danger, but if the Dominionists get control of the United States military, well, we might soon find ourselves fighting alongside them, just as we once sided with the Soviets against the Nazis.
Why write a science fiction book about something that’s already happening? Margaret Atwood (another Canadian) already wrote The Handmaid’s Tale which goes some ways towards describing what the outcome of a Dominionist takeover would look like. You’d be better served (and better serve the public) by writing about the fact that all of this is actually happening already.
These are thoughts that crossed my mind while I was probably suffering from psychosis. Is any of it true?
Laci Green says both forced celibacy on everyone and hyper aggressive sexualities are wrong.
Laci says that religion, especially Christianity and Islam, shapes the way we think about sex even if we aren’t religious ourselves. This is something she wants to fight against.
Conservatives create this environment and players play around in it, forcing anyone who wants out of it back into it. Players are masters of the black market created by the far conservative right in their efforts to keep people from having sex.
They seem like a product of the far conservative right telling people not to have sex. This naturally makes people want to have sex. This stems from sex being a biological urge you shouldn’t pent up and telling people not to do something usually makes them want to do it. This creates an environment where people want to do something they view as forbidden.
Is there a huge effort in this area to boot out non-Christians unless they meet one of the following criteria:
1)They were raised as something else
2)They’re still sticking close to what they were raised with
3)They are following the popular stereotypes of what non-Christians are suppose to act like
This seems like some cheap trick to avoid being called a bible thumper.
Maybe set theory and metaethics can save the day.
When certain ideas are popular in an area and it is forbidden to question them straw men of popular opposing ideas are bound to be present. For the people who break free of the initial brainwashing they might not be able to break free of the straw men. Eventually the straw men take on a life of their own and join forces with the original idea to repel all outsiders.
If people aren’t using religion to justify sexism and douche bag behavior they are using biological determinism and evolutionary psychology to justify it.
Some people though they let go of religion don’t want to get rid of certain lies like metaphysical sexual pessimism, Social Darwinism, Freud, Machiavellianism, and most of evolutionary psychology. They like to “play the game” and think this is all humanity is capable of. They feel they are the enlightened ones.
Preventing women with unwanted pregnancies from getting abortions seems like a way of increasing their power. Teen mothers and mothers who can’t financially support their children have a lot of strain placed on them. This increases the chances that they will fall for the Christian idea that they are the cure. Once this has happened it also supplies them with children they can brainwash.
Wasps can use players as a strawman and if people insist on not listening to wasps the wasp can let players have at them. This makes it useful for wasps to keep some players around. Both groups seem uninterested in male privilege. I guess wasps can tackle white privilege if it allows them to get stuff they don’t like seen as racist.
If I just ignore thoughts on the grounds of insufficient data what is the appropriate response if I get tricked in the future?
So proud of you! I wish you were my kid, because you’d never have heard hate speech of any kind.
Thank you for your story and call to action.
While I was never submerged in the sort of far right theocratic tendency you were, I did see the rise of the Christian Right overtaking the apolitical stance of the Pentecostal churches in which my father – a Pentecostal preacher – raised me. He resisted it somewhat as a “moderate Democrat” but in 1988, he sided with the Reaganites who had taken over the Evangelical movement.
I had moved decisively to the left at that point. Long story short, by 1994 I was calling myself a Pentecostal Socialist. I turned away from Christianity by 1997 altogether, but over the decades since I have come ever closer to reclaiming Jesus as a universalist radical for freedom and justice.
I may yet return to Christianity of some sort, though for the time being I am in seminary planning to go into the Unitarian Universalist ministry. I am taking my radical rebel Jesus with me and confronting the right-wingers (far or near) with a different vision of Jesus. If they say Jesus is God, they have to take seriously that he called for the emancipation of the poor and oppressed and they are called to do the same.
Terrifying, but enlightening. Thank you! Wow…
May you find comfort with others as your family was so willing to distance itself from you. Right-wing evangelicals can SUCK IT and I say that as a Republican Protestant. The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. is open to all.
Did the lord also tell you to help elect a president that raped his first wife, cheated on her with his second wife and then cheated on his second wife with his third wife?
That’s not the jesus I worship
Well, Bill Clinton was elected…… He raped numerous women, cheated on his wife Hillary with numerous women. Lied, was brought up for Impeachment over a sexual encounter, and has a trail of dead bodies following him. So Trump’s behavior is mild compared to Clinton’s. Open your eyes because you are being hypocritical.
Thank you, Kieryn, for this, yes terrifying, article. But it also makes sense of everything that has happened.
I edit for a local blog–EqualityWire–and would be very interested in talking to you in person about this article, if you would be willing.
Thank you!
Ginger
I’m a secular homeschooling parent in Texas who was always both grateful to the HSLDA for defending non-interference from the state while also sickened, knowing that kids like you were bearing the brunt of the fruit of those laws. I am so sorry.Thank you for publishing this; I will definitely repost. I do have one question: Isn’t Mike Pence Catholic? How does that figure into his being a dream in the White House, for the evangelical far-right?
I’m a Christian – not a Christofascist – who is also a homeschooler, and felt disgusted reading all the things the HSLDL stands for and fights against. It is definitely an organization that does as much harm as it does good.
according to the internet he used to be and then converted to evangelical christianity.
When we homeschooled our children the leaders of our homeschool support group actively taught us to fear the government coming to take our children away for homeschooling them. It definitely worked on me, I was often anxious and afraid that it could happen at any moment. At the time we were part of HSLDA, it was a security blanket for me to help calm my fears. At the time I only viewed it as a group of lawyers working to protect us, had no idea what it was or perhaps what it turned into.
This is exactly it.
No one has written to lay this out as specifically.
I would like to see this author publish more and find others to so so.
The hypocrisy is rich and immoral. They scream about freedom while attempting to take another’s.
Well we will pray for you Kieryn, that you come back to your faith in Christ if you were even born again in the first place. You make it sound that homeschooling is bad, many home schooled kids out score and perform public school kids on scholastic tests.
please don’t.
At what time did the author discuss and/or mentioned test scores? Your comments are a prime example of the evasive tactics that are used. He spoke about how this movement wants to dominate and force those to believe as they do.
Praying for people without their consent and when they come from a background of being abused within religion is an act of aggression, which you, Bob, know.
Where were you when white supremists attacked black Christian churches? I’m sure that your “prayers” made all the difference to the victims of Dylan Roof.
Matthew 15:9, Mark 7:7 immediately come to mind upon viewing this diatribe. Christianity and conservatism are NOT synonymous with Republican/GOP/Tea Party and certainly not Donald Trump or Mike Pence. The Bible says God is NOT the author or confusion, NOT a respecter of persons and true Christianity undefiled is to obey HIS laws, take care of the fatherless and widows. It also says to care for those without food, clothing, and shelter. We know Christians by their fruit. Mike Pence deliberately left a man proven innocent in prison in Indiana, just last year. Indiana didn’t want him,now the nation has him…and ALEC.
Regular Christianity and conservatism aren’t like this, no. What this article discusses is an extremely radical form of cult behavior that claims to be following the Bible, and claims to be Christian, when it clearly isn’t.
It’s not unlike Jehovah’s Witnesses. I worked with one. As a student of philosophy with an interest in spirituality, I’m interested in learning about people’s faiths from an intellectual standpoint. So, I got to know this JW woman, and at first she just seemed a little odd, but as she revealed more to me, I began to understand that her thinking was twisted badly. So badly, in fact, that I had to pull away from her and put massive distance between us because she was becoming very judgmental of me and I’m hardly worthy of that level of judgment.
The irony was that she didn’t understand the cognitive dissonance of being employed by a very liberal state university (as a secretary), when her religion (if it can be called that) prohibits its followers from studying past high school and says after high school the only book you’re to read is their truncated version of a Bible. She was over 50 and had not read a book in 30 years. (Astounding to me, a non-stop reader, with a college degree, AND we worked together in the English Department.)
There are Christians, and many of them are wonderful people who live by the actual message of the Bible. There are conservatives who are quite normal, but just prefer a more traditional set of values.
Then there are extremists, whose indoctrination is frightening, pernicious, and seemingly impermeable. These domestic terrorists want to infiltrate every aspect of our lives and infect us, and if we won’t assimilate, they’d happily put us down like you would a rabid dog.
What we need is to know how to properly and successfully fight this, and win.
“Impermeable” should be “impenetrable”. It’s late.
It’s not really important that their actions are out of sync with Christianity as it’s commonly understood. That line of criticism misses the mark. At the core it’s all about men taking control of women. It doesn’t matter whether they take their authority from the Bible, the Koran, the Talmud, the Torah, or the Wall Street Journal. It’s a universal social phenomenon (that should be opposed).
Yup. The only women of color I know that voted for tr*** did so because of their evangelical christianity.
One of the problems is that church is free, and education is expensive.
Knowing what you know now, do you think about your own existence, your very birth, as a political statement or tactic by your parents? David Brooks of the NYTimes wrote about the roots of ‘natalism’ many years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/07/opinion/the-new-reddiaper-babies.html
Thank you for this article. This is something we’ve seen for years creeping up. The “God’s Army” from Xtian Universities with names like “Liberty” where they allow no Dem student clubs. The encroachment on Roe V Wade. And now the despicable Pence. People were told the Tea Party was some grass roots development advocating less Govt Spending. And now look. This was like watching a Tornado. We have to fight this AMERICAN TALIBAN. NOW. They will destroy the country.
Had no idea.
A friend of mine posted this piece on their page. Read it and then read the rest of this post, which I’m calling: The Anatomy of Bullshit – How to read a Facebook post and know who is really behind the information
1. Check out the author and their relationships
2. Go to the website of the non-profit and locate their funding sources by finding their IRS 990 tax forms
a. Check out their stated policy
b. Red flag if the tax forms aren’t available on the website
c. Red flag if the non-profit doesn’t have a quick way to donate
3. If the tax forms are not available, go to guidestar.org and download their 990 forms
4. Scroll through the 990 and look for assets and rapid growth year to year.
5. Examine the 990 for relationships with other non-profits
6. Go to the website of other affiliated non-profits to see their agenda and founding members
7. Recognize why the information is being spread
8. Decide for yourself if you trust this source or not
Now after you’ve read this boi’s post, let’s dissect together.
1. The author of this post is Kieryn Darkwater – Tech Director of the Coalition for Responsible Home Education, a San Francisco based non-profit.
2. The website for the Coalition for Responsible Home Education’s site states that it is a nonprofit organization founded by homeschool alumni to advocate for the interests of homeschooled children.
a. No 990 forms, red flag
b. Donation button takes a while to locate. Red flag – this is a well funded operation, indicative of a not for profit funded by major corporations
3. Guidestar has 990 forms from 2012 through 2015
4. This home schooling not for profit is very well funded, with rapid growth in assets year to year
5. The Coalitions 990 tax forms mention that they are funded by a group called Global Business Coalition for Education Inc, a global group with funding in the US, UK, Mexico, India, and the Middle East.
6. Website for Global Business Coalition for Education Inc. lists the founding members. Founding members include: Accenture, Grupo Carso, Chevron Corporation, Dangote Industries, Discovery Communications, Inc., Econet Wireless Group, GUCCI, Hess Corporation, Intel Corporation, Lenovo Group Limited, McKinsey & Co, Inc., Pearson plc, Reed Smith LLP, Tata Sons Limited and Western Union.
7. The Coalition for Responsible Home Education is a front group for industries interested in the promotion of their corporate agendas, including pharmaceutical firms, oil companies, technology companies, financial services, and telecommunications.
8. I don’t trust the writings of activist Kieryn Darkwater. The agenda of a home schooling non profit should not include regulating home schools, forcing vaccinations on home schooled children, HRT – Hormone Replacement Therapy, or the other policies listed on their website.
And that’s how you approach every other non-profit group in the United States.
Hi, as one of the founders of CRHE, your assessment is bullshit. A look at our website tells you where we are based. I don’t know which 990 forms you’re looking at it but it’s not ours. Great try though, we didn’t even exist in 2012.
Sorry, I thought you were affiliated with another group. I’ve deleted my post.
I was actually starting to think this was a promotion for Guidestar, as your organization is there and does not have the information filled out.
Funny thing is, if you go by the criteria above, you should not even trust Guidestar, as it is a non-profit, and violates SEVERAL of the aforementioned things that are red flags (Hard to find the 990’s and cannot easily find the donate button).
Also, there is a huge leap of logic between:
“6. Website for Global Business Coalition for Education Inc. lists the founding members. Founding members include: Accenture, Grupo Carso, Chevron Corporation, Dangote Industries, Discovery Communications, Inc., Econet Wireless Group, GUCCI, Hess Corporation, Intel Corporation, Lenovo Group Limited, McKinsey & Co, Inc., Pearson plc, Reed Smith LLP, Tata Sons Limited and Western Union.
7. The Coalition for Responsible Home Education is a front group for industries interested in the promotion of their corporate agendas, including pharmaceutical firms, oil companies, technology companies, financial services, and telecommunications.”
Thought I should point that out.
The new set of eyes pointing out that our Donate button was hard to find is nice, though :p
I also went to Guidestar. I looked for the Coalition for Responsible Home Education. One appeared at the top of the list. It shows them in Canton, Massachusetts, not San Francisco. I tried to go to the web site for Global Business Coalition for Education Inc. My malware scanner blocked the page.
Instead of speaking directly to Kieryn Darkwater’s statements, you are attacking Kieryn Darkwater with financial information that seems dicey, at best.
In the meantime, we have no idea who you are or what your agenda might be. I do know that I have heard too many personal accounts of homeschoolers that are just like this to doubt them.
And yet, everything they say is something I see on a regular basis… and those people are scary. I think your bullshit detector is broke.
It’s common for that kind of information only to be available on request. Go away troll. You are on a need to know basis creeper.
This cult has been organizing and building strategically for decades, and have now taken control of our government.
Who remembers the “I Found it” campaign of 1977, when the Christofascist cult was advertising for fundamentalists to register into their databases?
That was the year Jimmy Carter took office, and only three years after Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace from the Presidency.
The Right plays the “long game” strategically, while the Liberal Left wins an occasional election and puts down its guard in celebration. That is why we have been losing our nation since the 1970s.
(Also I don’t want to de-rail comment threads with this but, I’m a nonbinary trans person and my pronouns are they/them/theirs <3 <3 )
Kieryn, thank you so SO so SO much for sharing your own history with us and for providing such a COMPREHENSIVE look at what the hell is going on with Christofascism in this country.
(While I was writing this, hundreds of comments were added here—sorry about the anonymous throwaway account. But maybe it’ll still be of use to somebody.)
Sadly, I can confirm as a former closeted East Texan evangelical, I grew up around some of this :( (not Quiverfulls specifically but related ideologies)
I’ve been thinking about this a lot though, and I want to disagree with the author and the general sentiment about the impossibility of swaying people away from this kind of thought, because the author and I are both examples of people who have been swayed (although we admittedly both had some major personal motivation, and my indoctrination was not quite as extreme as theirs), because I’ve been able to sway a few people substantially (without much personal motivation, and having being indoctrinated much like this author), and because I think changing peoples’ minds is a critical component of sustainable long-term social change. That said, I don’t think it should be the priority for the moment for most people, nor should most people even attempt it probably, unless they already know these kinds of people personally; it requires individual attention, 1-on-1 time, an intimate understanding of their worldview, and… emotional sacrifices (like being willing to argue from their POV and hold your reactions).
However, there is a special role available for people like me and the author, who come from backgrounds that let us comprehend and even to some degree empathize with people like this, but who have already learned (many of) the errors of our ways. We are in the fairly unique position of having insider access and insider status and being able to show insider flags (which is frankly quite important if you want to be listened to in these cultures), of having personal experience with changing our minds in the right direction (we hope!), in particular of having personal experience with the mental and emotional trials of overcoming a deeply problematic worldview (which are substantial, though of course the trials are *warranted*), and of having social and emotional ties that sometimes help keep us from the kinds of strong reactions that people tend to get when a stranger says something abhorrent (although friends and relatives saying abhorrent things is of course worse in a lot of ways, and personally I’ve found this somewhat harder to manage over time, esp. with people that are closer to me).
The process of changing peoples’ minds and changing the culture is slow and ugly and painful, but also, as far as I can tell, critical, esp. when it comes to the more extreme subsets of our society. Kyriarchy needs to be strongly resisted, and for now largely in more traditionally conflict-y ways, but simply fighting and suppressing the huge number of people upholding it is not a sustainable solution. As we’ve seen over and over and over, it causes a backlash, and unfortunately, especially with modern technology and economics, the strength of the backlash is not necessarily in proportion to the (slowly diminishing) number of backlashers. In particular, the highly-visible (to conservatives) “liberalization” of society, esp. the increasing social norms against expression of bigoted, kyriarchical, or sometimes just conservative views, has caused a process where people, rather than actually changing their minds, obscure their views in public, passing them along and strengthening them in private, forming bonds as a result of sharing intimate “confessions”, until eventually, at least in the right clusters, people start to feel like *most* of their friends are privately agreeing with them. At that point, they feel empowered to speak out in public, and then if they get enough support for that, they start to feel like the norm was never a “real” social norm at all, just oppressive crap pushed on them by distant liberals and oligarchs.
That process is incredibly hard to detect and counter if you’re only relating to these people from the outside, because the process is underground-by-default, but occurring in groups that often hold disproportionate power and wealth, with the publicly-accessible forms of their communication full of signals that make most outsiders want to look at something else instead (for a variety of reasons). Perhaps it is true that, with a few more cycles of adults being pressured into acting decently enough and holding their tongues, enough children would grow up uninfluenced that the problem would just go away on its own. But I’m not convinced we *can* endure a few more cycles at all, and even if we can, they will (continue to) be devastating. While I do think the cycle is helping in net, it also hurts everyone in the process, and actually changing peoples’ minds is one of the only ways I see to sustainably slow it down and break it.
Much love to you for writing this critical summary of what we face now. I was a member of the ICoC from age 14 to 21 (18 years ago now) and the scars of mistrust and fear still run deep. Congratulations on your awakening, and thank you for contributing to the enlightenment of others!
The author was a member of the Tea Party in 2009 (and was “laying the groundwork for [Tea Party] elections in 2006”), but is now calling them “Christofascists” and warning us about what they’re doing. What happened during the intervening years? How does a conversion like that happen? The answer would be a much more interesting article, IMO.
Agreed
Kieryn This is one of the most terrifying things I’ve read in recent history, leaving most of Stephen King’s work in the dust, including The Shining
Good Article. There were enough men and women in the Women’s marches who hold modern, tolerant, inclusive God-based and/or humanity/organic-based beliefs to know our only problem is we are practicing our cherished American beliefs of freedom under scattered roofs and are not organized into regular worship and supportive circles that continually uplift us and overflow. You know?
I grew up in the same movement, during the 1990’s. We were raised in isolation on a farm, homeschooled, etc. For some years, our only textbook was the bible. For others, we used textbooks from the 1800’s. When I was a teenager, I was sent to a remote compound in the Upper Peninsula to train in the paramilitary wing of our homeschool cult, which was called Advanced Training Institute. These people are serious as hell. I broke away at 18 after returning from the compound in Michigan (complete with airstrip, barracks, bunkers, etc) and realizing that the whole thing was crackers.
Oh yes, ATI’s ALERT program. It’s frequently misreported in the press as a pray-the-gay-away camp instead of the paramilitary training program that it is.
That’s genuinely terrifying. If anything, “cult” doesn’t seem strong enough a word.
I just want to understand something. Why did the author wait until now to make this public? It would have served our country much better if this article had been posted before 11/8. Why now? Why not then?
It says above it was posted on a public blog starting 8 yrs ago, just not on AS before now.
I’ve been documenting my journey for 8 years, talking about teenpact etc, so have many others. This piece came about because I was talking to activist friends who didn’t know this and that surprised me. It took weeks and a lot of emotional labor to write because I had to dig up memories that I tried to bury. We’ve been saying this all along but no one outside of our circle heard or listened until now.
I’ve been trying to tell this to people for years, screaming it from the mountain tops even. Until now they thought I was either exaggerating, paranoid, or overstating the danger. I wish people had listened and taken it seriously back then, because maybe if they had, Kieryn wouldn’t have had to write this article after the fact. People by and large were convinced that it was a tiny fringe that would never do anything, so they underestimated the threat level.
The more I read about “Christian” organisations like this, the more I realise how lucky I am that the church I was raised in was a chilled out British Baptist church (and British Baptists are v different from American Baptists, I can assure you). I mean, I still internalised some pretty shitty ideas that took a long time to unlearn, but that probably would’ve happened without the church, lbr. And it gave me a place to get involved in social justice and anti-poverty campaigns, which shaped a lot of my worldview when I was growing up. Articles like this are a thousand miles from the church I know and used to love, and they horrify me all the more because of that.
With respect, there is a variety of baptist in the US called the American Baptist Churches, USA. This is, in fact, a rather liberal denomination, recognizing a “priesthood of believers” in its members, even allowing individual congregations within the denomination to welcome same-sex marriages. ABC, USA is not like many of the other baptist versions in the US. I watch FBC McMinnville, Oregon sermons online with a woman leader who rejects a gendered god. Her focus is on understanding the teachings of Jesus and what those teachings “call” on us to do TODAY, in real life.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank.You.
-Chicago mom/activist/believer
I grew up in the same culture, and you have definitely nailed it dead on. I agree, there is no middle ground upon which to meet the Christofascists. One side wants everyone to either change into different people or be destroyed, and the other side wants everyone to be ok. There is no middle ground there. I personally was culturally shamed and then college educated out of the Christofascist brainwashing. Shaming fascists for their fascism and educating in full critical thinking faculties seems a good a strategy as any. It’s important to remember that these people are waiting for the end of the world to be their salvation. They literally do not give a f*** about anyone or anything besides the end of the world. Horrifying.
This. And also, I think that most conversions away from this happen between (just guesstimating) 13 and 25 – when people are naturally questioning their upbringing, regardless. I have known very few who left that world after 30, say, though it does happen. So providing information to people while they’re naturally questing is probably our best bet.
“It’s important to remember that these people are waiting for the end of the world to be their salvation. They literally do not give a *** about anyone or anything besides the end of the world. Horrifying.”
Or even more horrifying to consider…why wait, *when we actually have the technology to engender said end of the world*? And they can claim that God granted us the means to do God’s dirty work.
Consider all the fearful talk out there about Trump being capable of bringing us to nuclear Armageddon; perhaps to these people, that could actually be an altogether desirable goal, especially once it’s clear that their desired Christofascist Nation is easier said than done, or that “society”, in their eyes, is too far gone?
It’s funny how *that* concept hasn’t popped up in the article, or this thread. But we *might* be looking at something that may play out as the biggest–and by design, final–suicide cult in history.
I take your point and the same thought has filtered through my own mind.
Like you, I seriously hope it hasn’t occurred to the code carriers and button pushers.
I was homeschooled through in a secular, mixed unschooling and a Waldorf-based curriculum. I remember getting excited to meet a fellow homeschooler only to find that we had little else in common, and that they were very religious. This happened a lot. I had decided at 7 that I was an atheist. I did not get along with religious people until I met some more moderate religious people in college. I also met some fellow former secular/liberal homeschoolers in college. I now work in policy and campaigned heavily for Hillary last fall. My college roommate who was homeschooled for a few years ran for city council a year ago. He didn’t win, but he’s still heavily involved in local politics.
I’m curious what sort of checks and balances you think would be good to keep parents from brainwashing their kids like you were. I know some states require book lists; what do you think of that idea? What about standardized tests? (I’m not fans of standardized tests, personally.) Portfolio review? I turned out well, but I know a lot of other homeschooled kids didn’t, including some I knew personally growing up. What do you think would have helped you have your revelation about your worldview earlier?
I will say, I think a lot of the problem is the religious fundamentalism rather than just the homeschooling. I spent my HS years in a conservative area. One of my sports teammates said she “hated people who believe in evolution” (directed at me on purpose to bully me). She went to a private religious school. The public school kids were confused about evolution, probably because all of the parental lobbying against it being taught. This was in a very conservative part of the US. Religious fundamentalism with no exposure to anything different leads to this narrow viewpoint. And you’re right that homeschooled kids have more time to spare–how can you not, when your commute to school is a staircase and you go at your own pace?
At my daughter’s *public* school, in… fourth, I think?… grade, one of the teacher’s aides informed her (they’d broken up into small study groups) that, despite what the text-book said, the moon had not broken off the earth, or any other “practical” explanation – it was there because God put it there, full stop.
My daughter didn’t buy that explanation – but I wonder how many kids did?
I always find these articles interesting. As a Christian I was never taught not to believe in science or evolution with the exception that humans did not evolve from apes. In fact I didn’t know about evangelical Christians until I became an adult. I developed my Christianity in a traditional black church and in many ways was separated from what most white Christians where learning, whether they were evangelical or not. Because of African-American experiences in the United States, many of us typically didn’t trust many white Christian. As such, the Christians that Lauren talk about, are simply white racist.
Mike Pence is an illiterate, women-hating imbecile who rejects science, believes that homosexuals can be “cured” through electrocution, believes that dinosaurs never existed, believes that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and wants to force the intellectually and morally offensive filth of Creationism into the curricula of our America’s public schools. This ignorant and utterly worthless piece of bigoted trash is beyond dangerous, and along with his equally worthless clown-in-crime Donald Trump, is the absolute worst that America has to offer.
I am totally in agreement with what the author presents, I’ve been actively fighting these who will steal our democracy. The only thing I disagree with is their purpose, these people are fanatics, they believe that their god demands them to do everything to respond to its demands that they convert all others. That means they are enabled to lie and hated and murder and war, as necessary to achieve dominion. Equally disturbing is the same is demanded by another Abrahamic god, that of Islam. Imagine, world war without end as demanded by non-existent supernatural beings.
I’m a bit overwhelmed to find some in agreement with what I’ve been spouting for years. Without too much ranting, be aware our media is infected with those whose goals are to impose their fanaticism on us. Most liberal sites are so infected, including facebook. What’s particularly dangerous about this infection is that these ‘moderators’ are in position to shut down all of these sites, in the situation where discourse among liberals is required to fight back against another takeover of our democracy ala the ‘election’ of gwb in 1999. If this happens again our democracy is over, make no mistake.
Pence like so many now poised to destroy separation of church and state is a christian supremacist, like DeVos and Sessions. I doubt trump has the intelligence to understand what is poised to happen under his presidency.
I may apply to write for this site, I have so much to reveal about what has happened to me, for telling the truths this author reveals. Even as I write this comment, I am monitored and warned, it used to be that I would be censored and my comments manipulated.
to continue my thought, now I get an audio warning, a beep when those who monitor me don’t like what I am saying. Finally I ask all who are what I define as Real Christians to begin to understand the dangers presented by those who act in your names. The lies and hatred used in your names will be used to destroy our nation, please understand what the author is saying. I’m an atheist, I don’t advocate everyone to be an atheist, but if that is the only avenue to fight for our nation and that’s the only way to overcome the freaks, then please consider atheism for your well being and that of your children, and our great nation.
Well then…that was totally terrifying.
I believe it is fate that I have the 333rd comment. Jesus died at 33 and I believe he o my ever meant to be a Jew. In Judaism, God is infinity. When you take 100 and divide by three you get three groups of 33.3333333repeating infinitely.
Christianity inherited dishonor to man to man love, woman to woman love, from Judaism. The problem with the Torah, although a beautiful work brimming with value, is that it is also brimming with lies. All of its authority comes from the “fact
” that it is by Moses, even bough it speaks of him as if he is ancient, long after his death. This proves that there were underlying motives. Maybe since Judaism doesn’t procelatize they thought since being with a woman is so hard all men would choose men instead of given a choice…science agrees very few of us are entirely straight or gay. Also, man to man battlefield lovers posed significant military superiority–you fight way harder to have your man’s back if he needs it than you would for your bro. Love is the greatest power after all.
And love is God.
I’ve seen many many asking what we can do to fight back.
I came up with the idea for a Facebook macho wholesome badass dudelove culture page Holy Homos while in Israel. I have many different flyers to plaster all over your city with simple teachings to while giving men honor in their love, enforcing conservative values. For example, in one holy homos promo, two us make soldiers kiss on the lips under the text “Sex can only be the shit if there is Love”
Since the author, whom I salute, changed their mind, we can change minds.
As someone before me suggested, use their own teachings.
I recently met at a gathering for gay Orthodox Jews at a congregation lead by a gay rabbi. We need more gay rabbis and priests willing to advocate that God has always been love.
Since God is love and dishonor to manlove in a universally-bi population effectively murderes 50% of God manifesting, I believe it is even possible that the holocaust was karma. Of the worst kind, since people were obeying what they were taught.
I went on a date with an amazing guy who I’m already falling for. We’re both activists and could see ourselves becoming spiritual leaders. He a priest, me a rabbi.
This is what we need. Accountable role models.
My musician name is King David, I post a lot of my music on my Holy Homos Facebook page. We need to make the best music, film, art, culture that anyone had ever seen to fight this. Art is the greatest weapon.
We will win hearts.
If all else fails, ask the bigots why God gave men prostates. Women don’t but men do. Clearly make to make love is divinely designed to be faithfully consummated.
Many rabbis and priests don’t have the balls to relate that King David told the crowd at Jobathan’s funeral that he loved him more than any bride.
Really, hands down, the bigger way to SAVE Christians from where they were mislead is in this simple and epic fact; the greatest leverage getting man to man marriage legalized in the United States was an artifact found on Mt. Sinai depicting Jesus overseeing the marriage of two men.
Love is God.
If you want to fight them, educate them that every time they dishonor mature adult love they are KILLING God. God is as if a plant growing to light.
To photosynthesis.
If you want to join forces, relay thoughts, or need someone to talk to and give you motivation, my email is [email protected]
All my love
Oh and I used to be an athiest until 8 years ago when I met my first and only boyfriend. It was a jock to jock love. Make you believe in God love.
We can heal hearts and change minds!!!
Heaven on Earth coming soon
All the best dreams.
I can’t even begin to process that much stupid.
Fuck you, you stupid, ignorant fuck. The Holocaust was Karma. Right.
I started not to reply to you but try this on for size …..
Change the truth of gravity to mean whatever you want , but gravity is gravity , fall a thousand feet into a solid concrete swimming pool full of gas and burning coal , and believe you’re going to walk away from it …… Ain’t gonna happen …..
Don’t mess with Gods Word , it’s the truth and you will bow your knees to the Son of God , JESUS , and guess what ? You’re going to remember this warning the rest of your existence …..
So I suggest you repent of your sin/sins , believe the Gospel and cry out to God to forgive your sorry self and be born again …..
You will bow to Jesus , do it now and be saved or do it after you pass from this life and be separated from God forever as you suffer the burning fires of hell eternally …… but you will bow to Him !
That’s the largest display of love you have ever heard or seen ….. call it hate if you’d like but you’ll see !
And no I didn’t read your foolish jabbering , I just ran across 2 sentences and that was all I needed …..
I know it sounds like I’m hard on you but think about it , how much love is in letting you continue in your twisted thinking and me not warn you …..
if you were in the middle of the road with a truck careening straight into you , would it be love or hate for me to just walk away without snatching you out of harms way or me even giving my life to save yours …..
Set aside your messed up thinking for 1 minute and consider what I’ve said ….. these words will be forever burned into your mind and heart …. I will pray that you do the right thing….
Your tinfoil hat has a hole it in. That’s where the beeping is coming from.
Kieryn;
Thank you for describing, in rather frightening detail, what is opposing freedom in America now. I am homeschooling my son, who is in fifth grade, not because of any religious ideology, but rather that an alt-right Christofascist mentality is gaining much traction in America that the quality of public education has fallen to the point that we don’t feel our son would be safe in public school.
From reading the comments here, I still see people thinking we can oppose them by being active in protests, or voicing our opinions to public officials. From what I have seen, and what your article seems to be saying, we already have many local and state elected officials that are part of this Christofascist movement. Telling them to protect our freedom to follow other faiths, or to be atheist, will fall on deaf ears. There is now also a growing number at the Federal level. They think Pence is their end game, or close to it. They won’t care what “infidels say. They are following “the true word of God” (as they see it). What we want does not measure up against their religious fervor.
Every day, with every insanity babbled by Trump, every attack on our rights, I become more and more scared, and certain that the only path to end this is going to be a Civil War. There is no middle ground, or commonality between secular thought and Christofascism. Reading what you’ve written about how prepared they are, how steadfast, fanatical and fervent, only increases that certainty more. If I believed in any form of God, I’d say “God help us,” but I don’t. We have only ourselves to lean on, and a nation that is being stolen from us to defend.
Surely you jest . the King is coming !
Get right with God through Jesus His Son …..
Man y’all folks are crazy ….. y’all must be in your mid twenties to mid thirties …..
Better get with Gods program , or wing it on your own , you will not like the outcome …..
I know you’re a chicken but try for just one minute to imagine that you’re wrong ….. if you are you will have hell to pay ….. and no I’m not wrong and from this point forward you wil never be able to forget this warning forever ….. so don’t wait too late , you never know when your curtains will be drawn …..
Once it’s too late there will be no second chances …..
It’s been a while since I was in grad school and read up on the influence of the fundamentalist far right on education, but this goes way beyond homeschooling. They are also working on the system from within through school boards, legislation, etc. They have vast amounts of power, and they are bent on absolutely destroying the public school system. They have found convenient allies in corporations interested in profiting off the decline. Betsy DeVos is their champion because she ties together the two prongs of this movement.
I do agree with the author that so much damage has already been done and that the only way to save our future is to resist and fight.
I have a simple request; resistance takes General’s to lead. Where do we start , and what’s the first 3 goals we need to do to stop the Christofacsism
Specifically how do we fight back?
I have received a solid education about who these people are from this article.
Yes, Liberals are scratching their heads and wondering what to do to remove this hate group from our government. Trump will bring about his own own undoing if he remains so egocentric and keeps breaking laws. He may crack up at any time because he can’t handle the job. Pence has always been the Liberal’s worst fear. I suppose before Trump took office we thought he was a liar and incompetent buffoon, but it who was behind him that frightened us.His followers at rallies and their hate frightened us too. This brings up a situation on how to deal with fanatics and how to kick them out of power. They may want to blow up the world to bring on the Rapture, but nobody else wants this. What is the best way? We need direction and specific action. Griping abut Trump on social media is getting nowhere fast. A specific methodology to rid the nation of this hateful cancer, please.
Agreed. Protests are fine, but the people in power have to be motivated to listen–and from what Kierstyn is saying, they don’t listen because everything outside of their own belief system is a lie. So 300 million people protesting will not make a dent.
They have to have an Achilles heel. There has to be something concrete that can be used to bring down the regime quickly, efficiently, and with a minimum of collateral damage. If anyone has any insight, we welcome it.
Quiverfull has twisted and ascribed meaning and purpose to organizations, homeschoolers, and Christians that were never intended by any of them or God.
It has perverted the Word of God, assuming its end to be “Christian” world domination. They made the same mistake zealots in Jesus’ time made, who assumed the Messiah would establish his kingship over the Roman empire.
Jesus was clear; He said He is not of this world and His kingdom is not of this world.
Instead, He was crucified as “King of the Jews,” died, and was buried for their sins and the sins of the world, and raised three days later to overcome the world.
Christianity–Christ–is not about fear. His sacrifice and resurrection were centered on love alone, to save people from their sins so they could escape eternal damnation. Anything more than this is of the devil.
There is only one Messiah. God forbid “Christians” should look for a Messiah in Mike Pence or anyone else. The Messiah already came. He is Jesus.
Though Quiverfull may exist, be assured, they are false representations of God, true Christianity, and especially homeschoolers, many who have no affiliation with God whatsoever; modern zealots who pervert God’s truth for their own agenda.
Many Christians and homeschoolers don’t even know Quiverfull exists, and likewise, those raised in Quiverfull may not know a godly Christian life outside Quiverfull exists, or if they do, they’ve been taught it is wrong or damned.
I only know about Quiverfull because a few years back, when I blogged about my large family trying to build a house debt-free by God’s lead, I came under attack as being part of Quiverfull and a patriarchy. I didn’t understand what that was or why I was being railed against when I was just living the personal convictions God gave for me and my family alone. I had to research to find out what this strange accusation was. I was shocked at the perversion in God’s name I found.
Quiverfull does not represent God or God’s people. They lost their first love: God.
This may well be the single most brilliant opinion I’ve read post-election.
Well done. Scary-as-all-hell in a Margaret Atwood sort of way, but right on target.
I read this account last night before sleep. At 2:30am, I turned out the light. At 5:30am I woke in a sweat of fear and dread, having had one of the worst nightmares I’ve ever had about what the plan is next for the “far-right evangelical conservative (Christofascist) movement,” that is, how they’ll “deal” with the rest of us unRight people. It was positively chilling. While the dream is a bit fuzzy now, I do remember bits and pieces, things like required-attendance mass “educational” rallies, being wined, dined, but mostly drugged, having friends disappear and then return with a dull look to their eyes, unable to remember who I was and with hair, once dark, having turned white. Lobotomies. Brainwashing. Torture (which, according to Donald Trump, “works”).You know, pleasant stuff like that.
Oh yes, and Right children being celebrated for fornicating on Trump-controlled TV. That was in the dream, too. And, reaching out to grasp someone’s hand for comfort and grabbing onto something more like a squishy claw. I have vivid dreams, what can I say.
Oh yes, and Right people laughing at my terror and telling me I should have gone to church more and paid attention during Sunday School.
Hello Kieryn,
Reading your article opened my eyes, but hearing the voices crying out in unison throughout the responses clearly is heart breaking. First I want to say I am sorry for the spiritual abuse you and so many have suffered. It does not take a home school setting to be hurt by those who follow Jesus or purport to do so. As a parent of adult children I am keenly aware of the vastness and depths of my shortcomings as a mother. As a Christian I am sickened and shamed that some of my sins against my children were actually committed thinking I was representing Christ and acting for their good. I have received abundant grace and mercy from my three loving children but that is because the true Christ, the one who willingly swapped his life for theirs, is bigger than my sin. He is a redeemer in my life and theirs.
I never made the mistake of seeing Christ as a political entity, we have 4 gospels to show the ignorance of that! I never knew about the movement to outbreed the opposition or infiltrate influential cultural strongholds but I certainly had enough bad theology to portray God as so much less than who He is.
I am truly sorry for what you and others have been through. It sounds like there continues to be brokenness between many of those responding and their families. I hear you and it’s an important message to all Christian parents not just homeschoolers and not just to those opposing what you speak out against. I ask and encourage you to see those faults in fallible man as our own fallen human nature but not as a reflection of who God is. May you find Him tender and loving, limitless in patience and ever longing to have a conversation with you because that is who He is.
Test scores??? Wow that’s not the point at all! More of the white washed sepulchre ideology. Time to listen to the pain, buddy!
Nope. Parents that indoctrinate their children cause irreparable damage. It’s child abuse. Period.
Thank you for sharing this article. I come from a similar bkgd. I understand exactly what u mean regarding their “dogma over people”. But we must fight with the law. Protest, rally, YES! We CANNOT resort to their methods. ✊???
Thanks so much for sharing. I was raised as a conservative evangelical also.
Your article expresses what I have been thinking as I watch the new political canvas unfold and have been wanting to put into words.
My heart and soul are saddened because Christians are giving such a bad name for God.
Thanks again. I look forward to reading more of your articles in the future.
The United States of America was formed by people who were Deists, not Christians. Even though many Americans have been Christians, the country has always been non-religious and certainly non-Christians; that is why religion is mentioned in the First Amendment to the Constitution. Religion is simply not what the U.S.A. is about, and this will not be a religious country. If you want to live in a Christian country, then I think you should find one and move there.
Thanks Kieryan. Im a liberal christian who was exposed to the evangelical agenda while working in broadcasting. My liberal friends have no concept of what you are talking about. There’s a large silent “christian” population has always been there. We don’t like to to linked to the the word “christian” it doesn’t mean what we stand for. Since we know the thought process we can battle it, I’ve run into some people christian or otherwise that are mentally ill, and you cant fix that, but the majority can be slowly helped. and prayer! dont forget to pray. ~brooke
Thank you for writing this as scary as it sounds. Can you tell us a little how you left Quiverfull? I know a few people who grew up in it and left as well.
Let me just say no one can discredit your personal experience. I believe it is the truth of what you experienced. However, I don’t think you realize you are doing the very same thing that Trump and the extreme Right are doing to Muslims. Just because there are groups within their faith that have twisted their beliefs and committed horrible acts of evil in the name of Islam, now the entire faith has been labeled evil. When the truth of the matter is people are evil. Whether christian, muslim or atheist the propensity for evil, selfishness, and hidden agendas lies within us all. Race, religion, nor sexual orientation excludes us from that. Correct me if I’m wrong but it seemed as though your article demonized the entire Christian faith and everyone who identifies themselves as Christian. The culture you were apart of does not encompass or represent all of Christianity.There are probably a hundred or more denominatons of Christianity. Although they may share similarities, they all operate differently. What truly matters is the nature of a mans heart. Anyone can call themselves Christian and do whatever they want, however they want, even using the written texts of the religion to do it.
You’re wrong.
Source: the article.
Unless you endorse the view that the only form of Christianity is the form practiced by those the author identifies as Christofascists, then you are profoundly wrong.
Please reread the article.
Call me after the United States spends decades and billions of dollars bombing and subjugating primarily Christian countries.
Thank you, Kieryn. That was really helpful. Really appreciate your honesty and perspective. There is so much we don’t know about each other. I don’t have any real comment, just wondering if you’ve heard about the Unbubble project (unbubble.io). :)
This is a Facebook post from Kim Hastreiter from Paper Magazine in New York. I share her concerns.
This is a person post and not a post from Paper.
Kim Hastreiter
New York, NY, United States ·
Making America ugly
Day seven
I knew he would be bad but I seriously never ever thought in a zillion years that the president of the US could be allowed to order such a radical ban overnight on Muslims and refugees and even legal green card holders with NO process explanation, NO IMPLEMENTATION PLAN NO preparation for or communication about or explanation to the american citizens and especially Muslim citizens and other immigrant communities. Talk about being trigger happy and no impulse control. And u know This is just the beginning. I guess his MO is to keep everyone in a panic SHOCK AND AWE mode and cause fear and terror and he is succeeding in doing that. To us!! People are scared. The world is scared. Imagine how Muslim american citizens feel tonight. Or refugees who have spent years being vetted so they could come to America
This is terrorism executed by Donald trump. HE IS A SADIST AND A TERRORIST. And an IDIOT. AND A LOOSE CANNON. the jihadists and extremists ARE LOVING THIS. THEY ARE CELEBRATING. ITS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE WISHING FOR. THEY ARE ecstatic to see such idiocy and anarchy and Islamophobia and EVIL white extremism in America. BECAUSE THEY WILL MULTIPLY AND RECRUITING WILL BE SO MUCH EASIER. What a huge invitation for BIG terror attacks here. They’re fist bumping.
The resistance NEEDs A LEADER. We need a powerful smart united strategy and unified activations for next steps. I get a thousand petitions and requests for donations daily. I sign everything and give to everything BUT This resistance is microfractionalized. . And it’s weaker this way. I feel like it will organically develop and solidify as time passes but we need it fast we need A single focused strategic resistance “cabinet” that represents all factions. And a brilliant strategic leader who understands 21 century communication and is not AFRAID. We need one organized leadership to be the umbrella over the many many smaller valiant niche human rights immigration, environmental reproductive LGBT rights and other orgs shouting to be heard separately.
And We need this entity to lead a SINGLE STRATEGY to follow on how to fight back and resist the new hijacked version of America and our crazy town president. We need to unite our resistance. And do what our half assed democratic officials in congress with few isolated exceptions ( a la sanders Warren gillebrand) aren’t doing. I’m so over the fucking Democratic Party as it is. I mean where the fuck ARE they??????
We need GENIUS game changing creative activations paired with stealth legal action. We need subversive reconnaissance /truth intelligence and organized aggressive action like tax boycotts if sanctuary state fed funds are withheld, and most importantly organizing and using the best and brightest psychiatric community in America and around the world to develop strategy to deal with and weaken our MENTALLY ILL PRESIDENT who is off the rails dangerous. I REALLY FEEL LIKE HIS mental disorder IS HIS BIGGEST WEAKNESS. that’s why working with the psychiatry community is so urgent IMO.
We need a plan for organizing and fundraising. We need sensible doable ideas how to simultaneously protect and give sanctuary to the vulnerable losing their rights being targeted/oppressed and navigate the complications and threats of doing so. how to fight our new governments hijacking by corporate entities for Their profit. How to protect all our hard fought rights we’ve won from LGBT to women’s reproductive rights to how to protect the most vulnerable Americans and so so much more under attack. We need a SINGLE entity leading resistance for the whole shitshow.
Detailing a handbook for what citizens need to do every single day to be effective and not spin wheels so we can defeat the most disastrous and dangerous reality TV sleazy con artist ever whose malignant narcissism personality disorder is devoid of empathy, has no belief system in anything other than power, ego, winning, spite, being worshipped, revenge against those who speak against him enriching himself. Our president the egomaniacal stingy immature child-man who was
elected not by the majority of voters who needs to compensate and punish as many people as possible who won’t fellate his tiny penis who doesn’t care about human rights or humans for that matter. Who doesn’t know what’s in the constitution because he doesn’t even read but watches tv and uses twitter instead.
We can’t fight this in a normal way. This is not normal. We need out of box thinking on how to protect our country and its citizens. Even to protect the citizens who voted for him. But we need to unify. And all activate together. Whether all of us registering as Muslims, all legally withholding our federal taxes and I’m sure there are many more effective creative ideas out there especially mind fuck stuff that the psychiatrists can help us with. Remember we are the MAJORITY. AND HE IS CRAZY. He is putting us all in grave danger.
I highly recommend the following blog, by another former fundamentalist Christian, which discusses these specific issues from a progressive perspective: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/
Are all evangelists part of this movement? Is it spread all over the country? How many Christofascists are there?
Nowhere near all of them – though anyone trying to change my beliefs is obnoxious – but enough.
It does seem as though this particular iteration have been extremely successful, though.
No, most people who call themselves Evangelists are not part of this ‘group’. I don’t know any who are.
Is this real? I fully believe this story. It makes complete sense. I’ve been living in a bubble in Texas. Always fearing confrontation so I just “go with the flow”, as many say. But with the rise of “fake news” I’m second guessing everything I read. I still read it and share it, but I want to find out if it’s true.
Given that I only meet these people in passing, and from the outside – and I meet *way* more than enough of them – I’d say if it’s not true, it’s a perfect copy of the truth.
why are there 2 different photos, the blue-haired person on this page, but when you post this article tFB you show a long-haired female with the byline- confusing – on purpose?
I don’t have Facebook but I think your confusion may be due to the author describing themselves as being a Trans person who has an alternative gender expression to that which you expect to see.
The photo that accompanies the article on Facebook is of Kieryn when they were a teenager being raised in quiverfull homeschooling.
The picture you see on Facebook is the cover photo of this article, the exact same picture you might see if you go to this website and look at the front page. The exact same picture that represents this article everywhere on this website.
There’s nothing insidious or misleading about it. That’s just the status quo. Autostraddle could have gone the other way and coded the site to promote author byline avatars on social media instead, but people don’t generally interact as well with a square photo of a face as a usually relevant cover photo chosen to illustrate the story.
With that in mind, what you’re actually wondering is perhaps: how does this cover photo relate to the story?
…which Kathryn responded to while I submitted my reply. :)
Sometimes people change their hair after they grow up! ;-)
I think the only thing about the ending paragraphs that are disconcerting is that suddenly we lost sight of your personal experience. You might be, and others like you, who have fallen far enough from the tree to be out of the shade, the most important people of this time. You are a bridge Kieyrn. I don’t know how you came away you after being brainwashed from birth. I myself was raised off the grid by alternative atheists and I have not fallen far from the tree. I was raised with heavy logic almost the antithesis. I am in awe of people who did not do what their parents taught them, learning somewhere along the way to think for themselves. My heavy logical background brought me back to my roots, as it turns out they made a lot of sense. Compassion, acceptance of all. We will all need you Kieryn to continue to teach us about a world much of us know nothing about.
*We would love to interview you further for a media project we are about to launch. Please contact us if you’re interested at [email protected]. Hope to hear from you and thank you so much for sharing.
I have lived an older version of this, homeschooling mom in a church/area that was pretty much just as this article describes. I was partially indoctrinated by all the passion and the genuine desire to do the right thing, but also constantly struggling because my own reason and logic made me question many, many things and I would feel overwhelming guilt and anxiety because of these “doubts”. I could never fully conform (I’m so glad!) and my level of acceptance by the pastor and other leaders reflected that. I had this annoying habit of asking questions and thinking for myself, although they had no idea how hard I was working to tone that down. This earned their wariness for anything I did or said. Personally, I’m grateful for the time I spent there now that I have broken free. It has caused me to cherish my freedom and independence in a way I would have likely taken for granted had I not had this experience. It also makes me HIGHLY resistant to any form of pressure to conform my life or thinking to a certain way. I’ll be thinking for myself from now on, thank you, even when I know I will make mistakes.
I guess American History was not a strong point in the homeshool arena that year? What a Wackadoo!
Um, wow, you have laid out in a nutshell what I have highly suspected for years now. I have observed these Christians doing this, all of this, from witnessing one church having it’s members in one state adopting children in mass to raise indoctrinated for this purpose to listening to homeschooled children in other areas of the country spew these ideals, to even nearby CA communities push nuclear family values in a court system while encouraging more babies in dysfunctional families. I am frightened at this agenda more than ever now that I see it validated in this story, resistance is necessary more than ever before in this country.
I’ve seen much the same, I’m afraid. I’m a Mestiza that grew up in the west (thanks to sugar beets, but that’s its own story), and my sister’s in-laws (and her, now, sadly) are entrenched in this kind of thinking. Her husband’s parents creationist ‘scientists’ (Christian Apologetics) that write children’s books all the while saying how much they hate children. In fact, the only reason they had any was to glorify god. (Their one son had multiple daughters and no sons and they were convinced something must be wrong with them. Their other son is going to have a boy. They’re naming him Donald.)
I was surrounded by this terrifying extremism for a large portion of my life (my sister is eighteen years older than me and was married at nineteen. She’s insisted on staying in our lives, even if she condemns us), so it was a huge shock to me when I learned that this is not something a lot of people know about or necessarily believe. It seems like an exaggeration…but it isn’t.
I have sat in shock while being told that Cesar Chavez was in league with the devil, or that a woman they knew was having marriage troubles and it must stem from being in an interracial relationship, or that divorce is a ‘black problem’ or a litany of other statements that people don’t think are thrown around anymore.
What’s dangerous isn’t really them. They’ve always been around. We’ve had centuries of bigots utilizing and twisting religion to support whatever is most beneficial to them. What’s really dangerous is that there are so many people that don’t think they exist, or that they’re few. They might vary in terms of extremism, but they definitely exist. And their thinking is dangerously insular. They seperate themselves off from society. They homeschool, have private schools that teach things like how Obama is the devil’s pawn (Real example from the school my sister sent her kids to). They think of themselves as an oppressed group, under attack from an evil world that they alone can save. There is no reasoning with them, it seems. I’ve tried haven’t polite conversations, but it usually turns into how my racial background makes me biased.
Anyways, I could go on for days, seeing how much time I’ve spent with these sorts and how angry I am about what it’s done to my sister, but yeah. Articles like this are necessary.
It sounds from your incredible, passionate article, that somehow God’s love got left out of the equation in your life story. I grieve for the hurtful experiences you had to endure and wish for you people who will surround you with the love you should have known all along. We are all just limping through this life, i’ve found–sometimes lifting up the person beside us and sometimes being lifted up. Wishing you the Best always.
Yo, Jeffrey Wright just linked to this article.
The actor?
Yep.
This was so me. I was part of this. I am sorry. I took my family and ran to this to hide the real me, and to see if she could be exorcised, just as I ran into the military (Navy & Marines) to prove manhood.
I was born a woman, but with male genitalia.
I am so very sorry.
Wow, this really struck me. Especially as someone who was homeschooled (not in these circles though)! I know how powerful a group of homeschooled teens can be and how loud and outspoken they are, and it makes perfect sense that this culture would use them like that, I’ve seen it a lot.
Really late to the comments, but I still want to thank you for speaking up and sharing this. A lot of this is stuff I’ve been trying to vocalize for awhile. I’ll be sharing this a lot, especially if the rumored lgbt executive order comes through this week. I kept thinking this administration was only motivated by money/power, but now I see how strong the religious influence is.
Could you suggest what kind of meaningful, non-violent resistance you are advocating?
When you say the following, it is non-specific, and suggests a violent response. “[I]t must be fought against….Fight back.”
Are you thinking of taking sticks and guns against your former neighbors and family members?
“[U]nless they’ve already started on that journey themselves.” I wonder if there’s a way to foster that. How did it happen to you?
As bad as things have gotten, I’m not interested in hastening Armageddon. It took a while for American Christian fundamentalists to help alter the power structure, but I doubt they’re really the ones behind the power shift. Ultra-wealthy industrialists and oil barons (“military-industrial complex” aka Halliburton) who are the bosses of corporate heads of media have developed a huge machinery of mass-hypnosis and hysteria (aka FOX News). They’re lured naive, superstitious, and fearful people (aka some Christians and others) into throwing some votes their way. I think it shouldn’t be too hard to lure the sheep back to the middle. It’s the evildoers at the top that are the bigger and harder-to-solve problem.
Thanks for your story. It certainly has shed some light on the current election.
PS I’m not a Christian, at least in the religious sense — though I do espouse a lot of so-called Christian values, e.g. love your neighbor.
~ JESUS THE COMMODITY ~
~ As Seen On TV ~ Televangelists, selling Jesus by the gram. Mega-churches ministered by evil men seeking wealth and power, deceiving those seeking spiritual guidance. Stealing their wages, stealing their souls and telling them how they want them to vote. All in the name of Jesus. ~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
Devos would help create millions more like this formerly delusional girl.
Devos is scary, and will be terrible for children in schooling if confirmed, I agree.
Two things – the author is not a girl, they are nonbinary trans (an enby)
Second – ‘delusional’ refers to psychiatric symptoms, not authoritarian brainwashing. The enby who wrote this has never been ‘delusional’, they had been conditioned by a cult to authoritarian beliefs.
I know you probably meant well, but ‘delusional girl’ is a word pairing that could very well harm the author and cause others in the same situation harm.
I think this article is very important and I thank the author for shining a light into the quiverful movement for us on the left. I admire the accomplishments of these good Christian evangelical political activists. I respect thier organizing strategy. I am not excited or interested in whitewashed history, but respect the pedagogical approach described here. Homeschooling seems to be an essential element of the success these children have in activism.
Here’s my question: where do these folks get funding? No working class people I know have time to spend outside of work on this kind of dedicated infiltration.
There are some major donors who believe in the cause, and there are also a lot of ordinary people giving small donations because they’ve been convinced it’s the godly thing to do.
HSLDA’s funding comes largely from keeping homeschool parents terrified that CPS or a truant officer will show up on their doorstep and drag their kids away. That fear sells memberships because they promise the peace of mind that they’ll be there to provide legal defense.
Single worker families go without many things to pay for the classes and groups offered. For 8 years I was paid to tutor these kids using their curriculum, which was my only income. This was how I as a homeschool mom could afford the tuition I had to pay. It also trapped me in their mission. I was asked to sign contracts stating I believed what they were pushing and if I didn’t my children and I would be seen as sinners. My money and time went to the books I was told to read and the money which funded their political agenda. It was the only way to be a Christian homeschooler and for many the only training and community they have is this.
Kieryn put into words all my conclusions about the homeschooled and the “Republican so-called Christian movement”. As I have been saying, I am more fearful of the moral majority legislators than I am of Trump, and kieryn’s article confirms all my fears.
I am on the church council for a UCC progressive church. I have been trying to explain these realities to my minister and others and I get a blank stare.
I would like to talk to Kieryn about how I can help disseminate her article to other liberal denominations. I have the resources to help.
Kieryn & Autostraddle,
Just so you know, by some wild stroke of magic you have brought into conversation two parts of my world which usually understand nothing of each other–I NEVER never never thought I’d see the day that conservative Republican evangelical Christian homeschool moms would be sharing & discussing an Autostraddle article on Facebook.
There is a disturbance in the force. I’m giddy.
I’m swooning
This author ends their description of this very real nightmare, “We can only fight back. The revolution has come and we are the resistance.” But they don’t suggest how! These far-right Christians can’t be reasoned with, so does “fight back” refer just to the courts? What? People raised in these ways, who obviously have gone through their own self revelation, have very valuable insight, and I want more ideas from them! Frustrating, though I acknowledge this person’s courage and wisdom.
Hateful, ridiculous article.
Thank You ! Keep on keeping on for JESUS
And there’s the problem summed up in two comments. Insinuating that the evangelical conservative platform has Jesus’ stamp of approval and that anyone that disagrees is vile. That’s as ludicrous from a scriptural standpoint as it is from a logical one.
Kieran, thank you for enlightening this liberal about this topic. I’m sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience during such vital formative years. I truly appreciate you sharing your story with us. If I was your mom, I’d be damn proud of you for your activism and critical thinking skills.
really ? Stupid is as stupid does !
Scary shit but good to hear. I hope your messages get to those who need it most; our elected officials. Thank you!
What made you start to question/change your belief system?
Thank you for speaking out! I have been involved with this group for over 8 years and just left. It was scary, it is scary. I will loose many friends my children have known all their lives. I was not sure I could do it, but your article gave me the last push I needed! Please know that by speaking up you have given several of us the voice we need to speak up as well. Please continue to be brave and truthful. I am proud of you and thank you for giving my children a voice that I almost lost.
As someone who also left an oppressive religion, let me just say I’m so proud of you, and reading your comment made my day.
Thanks for the info, Kieryn. We’ve got your back on this. We have our quivers full of love and truth, and we are going to search out and expose the Quiverfill folks as the fascists they are.
Peace out!
Thank you for being honest and brave. I shared it on Facebook and Twitter. But I have to tell you, that article scared the bejusus out of me. Guess I’d better start sewing my Handmaid’s outfit (see The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood) because I think Pence is planning to take over.
~ The Separation Of Church And Hate:
There is a good reason why Church and State must always remain separate. Let’s get something straight, right from the start: A theocratic state is not a free state, and never will be. I’m sure it was never Jesus’ intention nor was it His will that anyone should be dominated in His name, the name of Christ. That is the will of men. To be accurate, the concept in itself is anti-Christian. You can only follow Christ by choice, not by legislation.
It seems some people are more intent on casting stones at perceived sinners than propagating the love of Christ. ~ “Above all else, I command you love one another”. ~ This was the message that Jesus preached, and as far as I can see, the worth of a soul will only be measured as such. But I can assure you of one thing, when your time of judgment comes, you won’t be asked to recite scripture, but rather, if anything, the question will be: Did you get the message and live by it?
For all of you people out there on the religious right, you should try to remember that looking for sins to condemn, and people to persecute in the name of God, is simply Satan’s way of keeping you from seeing what is good and praiseworthy. It’s Satan’s favorite means of deceit; getting people to hate and kill each other in the name of God and Christ Jesus. Twisting scripture to incite hatred and division.
Understand this; that by doing so, you are defaming the name of Christ, associating Jesus with bigotry and hate. Jesus was never cursed with these feelings, these sins that you commit in His name. It’s widely agreed that He rose above it all, and to use His name for the justification of spreading contempt and hatred for anyone is true heresy. It isn’t Pro-Christ by any means, but clearly Anti-Christ.
*******************************************************************
~ It doesn’t really seem to matter at this point if you believe in God and Christ or not. What we have are Anti-Christians, the antithesis of the persona Jesus, and they are attempting, through legislation, to declare America to be a theocratic state and nation, legitimizing discrimination under the false guise of “religious freedom”. If you’re not one of the “chosen” you’re fair game for persecution, oppression and abuse. It’s a perfect “us” and “them” scenario. If you express opposing views to the “Order” or you’re a non-believer, or in any way perceived as a “sinner”, they’ll be coming for you.
~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
~ The Christian Dilemma:
The greatest threat to America, and indeed to the rest of world, at this point in history, comes from the staunch advocates of right wing ideology, and I must submit this warning to you: There is a grave problem with the right wing movement, in that; they seem to possess a distorted sense of entitlement. They’ve set themselves apart, and seem to think that their faith gives them the right to view the world from a platitude of conceit, through condescending eyes, and with a false sense of superiority. They actually believe themselves to be superior beings, with a manifest destiny and some strange notion that God is on their side. A people with a desire to conquer, under the false guise of Christianity, seeking to dominate in the name of Christ, their view of humanity being reduced to nothing more than a matter of “us” and “them”.
What they fail to realize is; if the Christ you believe in leads you to view other humans as lesser beings, then you are a follower of the anti-Christ. The plain truth is; God doesn’t have a religion and God doesn’t discriminate. Any religion that professes to be the only true religion, or that they‘re special in the eyes of God preaches false doctrine. If the Spirit of God is truly with you, it will only be known by acts of “unconditional” love and charity. No religion can claim exclusive rights to God. He belongs to all that He has created, and to foster a belief in “us” and “them” is to divide humanity, not unite it.
And so it will be, in The End, that those who have set themselves apart from their fellow man will find that they have set themselves apart from God. The worth of a soul will only be measured by how much it has loved, nothing more, nothing less. Woe to those who have taken the widow’s mite and built castles and empires in His name. They have incurred a great accountability, their suffering will be unending.
Even Jesus will not claim to be Christian, but will only proclaim the glory of the Father. And when He returns they will shout: “Here we are Lord!” And He will respond: “I never knew you”. They have forsaken the Word and have become prisoners of the Numbers.
Those who have put themselves first will be last.
Who wrote this? I see you published it but who wrote it???
I see you published it… Who wrote this? ???
Thanks for this, here is what I witnessed when living stateside 10-20 yrs ago http://bit.ly/2kZ8g25
In reading this piece it made complete sense to me. Being surrounded by financial fundamentalist Christians in my family has tested my faith for decades. In thinking back… it could be said the “Young Life” groups that started in high school living rooms back in the early 70’s was the start of the “indoctrination” of this thinking. I come from a Catholic, six years of parochial school, background. Attended a few Young Life sessions but found it a bit dubious and too constrictive. Then my mother came back from Europe a born again Christian after being indoctrinated by my Aunt and Uncle. After that family gatherings became uncomfortable and unpleasant as the indoctrinations continued. Slowly, I stopped going to church after being blind sided one Mother’s Day Sunday service in which an anti-abortionist message was presented. I walked out and never went back believing Sunday service especially MOTHER’S DAY was not the platform for this kind of propaganda. Churchianity and Religiosity are the ROOT OF EVIL. Always has been.
In reading this piece it made complete sense to me. Being surrounded by fanatical undamentalist Christians in my family has tested my faith for decades. In thinking back… it could be said the “Young Life” groups that started in high school living rooms back in the early 70’s was the start of the “indoctrination” of this thinking. I come from a Catholic, six years of parochial school, background. Attended a few Young Life sessions but found it a bit dubious and too constrictive. Then my mother came back from Europe a born again Christian after being indoctrinated by my Aunt and Uncle. After that family gatherings became uncomfortable and unpleasant as the indoctrinations continued. Slowly, I stopped going to church after being blind sided one Mother’s Day Sunday service in which an anti-abortionist message was presented. I walked out and never went back believing Sunday service especially MOTHER’S DAY was not the platform for this kind of propaganda. Churchianity and Religiosity are the ROOT OF EVIL. Always has been.
Thank you so much for writing this! I was homeschooled from K-12th and while my parents were incredibly well-intentioned, their type of Christianity ran along many of the same lines. I will say that what saved me is the fact that my dad was much more secular-leaning than my mom (i.e. wouldn’t get rid of tv because he needed to watch sports) and my mom eventually discovered that no matter how many jumpers she wore or how many bible verses her kid memorized (I was interviewed for the local paper for my skills! lol) she was never going to me “good enough” for the other quiverfull moms. The closest we came to the fire was a membership with ATI, a few brief stints working the polls for dubya and other conservative candidates, and a journalism summer camp I attended at Patrick Henry College where we learned how important it was to label pro-choicers as Anti-Life in order to get “our” message across (we were all 15).
I still feel the stigma of being homeschooled and usually don’t tell people unless we’re playing two truths and a lie.
Kieryn, I would be really interested in reading about what resources and opportunities supported you in rejecting these theologies that you were immersed in, and developing independence from this community?
Thank you for this article and your perspective.
Liberals make rules to control people they don’t agree with all the time. Guns, smoking, certain foods, healthcare, etc… But the most sinister is through taxes, force Christians to pay taxes to fund things such as planned parenthood. You can make a case that Christians lobby to change laws, but you cannot claim that you don’t do the same. Christians and liberals have different goals, but many of their tactics are the same. That being said, my heart does go to any kid stuck in that type of situation, I also distanced myself from the religion I was brought up in, but I do not have vendetta against Christians, they are no worse than liberals, or any other religion.
Mark, try actually talking so some liberals some time.
The terms Christian and liberal are not mutually exclusive. >.>
It’s hard to “choose” among all the terrifying implications of this story, but this one idea has stayed with me for several days now:
“[Parents and families in this movement] are dissuaded from looking at the Constitution themselves without a law degree…”
To me, this sounds exactly the same as the history of Catholicism, in which the Pope was the only person who could read the Bible and interpret it for the common man. This was part of the very point of Protestantism! How ironic that this sect of Evangelicals is now looking to their own Pope.
Thank you for writing this. Very enlightening.
Your piece brought back the documentary Jesus Camp. I watched in disbelief years ago and kind of forgot. Forgetting is the problem because it is going on and we just don’t realize it. Now it is hitting us over the head. Did you ever see this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYFRmNuz9k
I went to a private Christian school that was part of this. I remember they had a curricula called “understanding the times” which was pure propaganda against secularism and very political. We learned about Marxism & Leninism as well. It baffles me now that they full on support a guy like Steve Bannon. This is beyond terrifying.
christofascism is a word I’ve been searching for, for years now to describe an upbringing in the evangelical “homeschooling” movement–thank you for this article.
This HAS been a long time coming. The likes of Infowars/rebelmedia/ breitbart have been around in many forms for decades now. I remember my uncle had a really strong following for his anti-globalist anti-nwo anti-homosexuality-homosexuality “ministry.” (this shit was a non-profit). We used to spend hours dubbing thousands of VHS and cassette tapes for distribution to churches and evangelical organizations–where he would also attract hundreds to hear his 4 hour lectures on the impending apocalypse.
The unsettling part of all this is that, whatever chaos may arise, hell, if ww3 starts during this administration, it would be considered a predictable act of god, pulling us ever closer to his second coming.
A single memory has presented itself repeatedly throughout the election and now:
I had just watched an episode of one of “Focus on The Family’s” kid shows, recounting emperor Nero’s blaming of the christians for fires throughout Rome (is this even accurate historically? Still overwriting a homeschooled education, stay with me, here).
Now, my family subscribed to “voice of the martyrs” which is a magazine depicting “persecution” of christians internationally, for being christian. So I was always under the illusion that everyone was after christians, trying to destroy the world with their human-ness.
Anyway, I remember being in the room with family and friends and boldly stated “wait, if the enemy is trying to destroy the people of the lord, then why don’t we just go door to door and ask people if they’re christian? If they say no, we shoot them. If they say yes, they can stay.”
No one was particularly jolted by the remark, my aunt-in-christ just calmly stated “it’s a little more complicated than that.”
I had a fear growing up that we’d be eradicated eventually and had to fight accordingly. A sentiment likely shared with most hyper evangelical upbringings. This memory is so ingrained because I really thought it was sooo genius, much like the time I drew a plan to build an ark in case we weren’t godly enough to get raptured n stuff.
But yeah, we’re all grown up now…and this makes such unfortunate sense.
Shit. Is. Cray.
So sad that you’re Aunt-in-Christ didn’t immediately say, “Because we’re supposed to love people — to be patient with them, and kind. And polite. And not self-seeking. Being a servant is what Christ modeled for us – He even forgave the people who who nailed Him to the cross, saying, ‘Forgive them, Father, for they don’t know what they’ve done.'”
If you were in my house and posed that ‘solution,’ that’s the answer you would have received.
People in Jesus’ day were misguided. They thought He was going to restore the nation and steal it back from Rome. No — he came to create a path for us to have a restored relationship with God. In our day today, Christians are STILL misguided. They think they need to steal back society from the socialist/Marxist direction its going. NO. We’re supposed to be pointing people to Jesus as the way to have a restored relationship with God.
There is nothing new under the sun. People are still misundestanding the role of Jesus and our role as His followers.
I am so saddened reading about all these experiences. About six years ago my wife and I were invited to what turned out to be a quiverful church. We weren’t told that — we just went, being told that it was family integrated — which is something we wanted, because so many churches divide the family as soon as they walk in the door. We attended for a few months, and I’m sad to say it took us those few months to realize they were so legalistic and misguided. Hardly anyone spoke to my wife because she wore pants to church. People half-scowled at us when they learned we had only one child. We kept hearing the phrase “full quiver” so we finally decided to look it up. YIKES. How NON-biblical. They twist scripture and I could not believe the men were so mysogynistic – it makes me cringe just to recall it. This “movement” really is the Islamic version of Christianity. It’s all about WORKS and not about God’s grace. As my wife and I tell people, “the ground is level at the foot of the cross.”
My family is active in our homeschooling community. There are HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of us in our area of our state, and I’m glad to say that none of these hundreds of which I speak follow the quiverful mentality (outside of that small quiverful church at the west end of the valley that has only about 8 families attending). We only want to teach our children in ways that they prefer learning, and without all the bullying and emotional abuse they’d receive in what we call and “institutional” school (I have both an undergraduate and a masters degree in education, and I’m well aware of the BS that goes on in what is called a “public” school). Our daughter learns very differently from how they teach in institutional school. Her favorite subject is math, but if she’s been in an institutional school, I’m quite confident she would have been labeled math deficient.
Our daughter is VERY active in the community — she is in 4H as she wants to be a veterinarian, she volunteers at the Humane Society, she loves gymnastics classes, and she takes several robotics classes in town, too. Like I said, her favorite subject is math, and her 2nd favorite subject is science — something the quiverful crowd told us she didn’t need because she should be preparing for life as a mom. I said “Poppycock.” Okay, my language was a bit stronger, but I am set on my daughter determining what SHE wants to do with her life. I’m not going to dictate that to her.
I’m writing all this to say that “homeschooling” has a very broad set of participants. In fact, there’s a really good article floating out there somewhere that puts homeschoolers in five different categores (ranging from the quiverful crowd to the atheistic homeschooler). In any case, I feel so sad for the homeschoolers who were squashed and repressed and not allowed to be who God made them to be from their earliest years. As a certified behavioral analyst, I hope — and pray — that everyone who has posted on here about pain they had while homeschooling gets healed of that to the point that they can flourish in God’s kingdom in the joy of a relationship with HIM — because THAT is what life is REALLY about. Politics be damned — all one needs to do is read Isaiah 40 to learn that God thinks NOTHING of nations … of politics. What does Isaiah 40 say that He cares about? He cares DEEPLY for us as individuals.
Fascinating and terrifying. Thank you for writing and sharing on Autostraddle, and I admire your courage. As someone who grew up in liberal Jewish family in a conservative town, I had no idea about any of this, even though it probably surrounded me. I can’t really imagine what life must be like for kids that grow up in this culture. I also appreciate how the comments section has been for the most part informative and respectful. Looking forward to reading more from you!
So informative! Thank you for sharing … I have had so much anxiety unraveling the politics that join the Trump/Bannon/the “alt-right” with Pence/Evangelicals/TeaParty … But it makes sense! However, good news is the Women’s March is still the most popular of the protest movements! We are in the majority! Keep up the good work folks! #theresistance
It is quite horrible for most of the civilised world to witness, how easily the darkest sides of humanity make a most unwelcome return.
It is also unfathomable to us, how this perverse reading of the Bible can take place and gain ground. This is truly the false prophets, we are warned against, proclaiming all the vices, from which we must refrain, as good.
To a true Christian, science only deepens the love for the created world, opening its miraculous nature up to us.
Thinking that any way of life, which aims at doing good to your fellow man, should be sinful, has no Biblical foundation. It is a power-game, and indeed the monsters have taken control in the USA at present.
We hope that we can save Europe.
This is an incredibly well-written and thorough piece. I, too, was raised fundie Christian and homeschooled. While we weren’t part of any movement, and our theology was a bit milder than the one described here, we were very committed to “taking back” the country for Christ, even if it meant taking it from groups who’d been marginalized and disenfranchised. Ironic then that I’d eventually come out as gay. These days I look at the current government and wonder how no one saw it coming, but then most people don’t know what to look and listen for.
You are awesome. Thank you for writing this. It is extremely informative and well-expressed. I will be resisting too..let us stay strong!!
If Quiverfull’s aim is to outbreed the opposition, banning abortion is a funny way to go about it. If the rest of their strategy is equally self-defeating, I’d say the rest of us have little to fear from them.
(I apologize if someone has already made this point; too many comments, too little time to read through them.)
Banning abortion is just another way to control women in the name of Gawd. Women with children earn less, take more sick days and more apt to become dependent on some man out of necessity for her children. Wages, job descrimination, religion – all of these keep women in their place.
So you my dear grew up on a cult. Period. Plain and simple. What you described has nothing to do with being a Christian or loving God. Sorry you had such a twisted experience that diverted you from what being a Christian is all about.
I appreciate your article very much. How can the left organize in the same way? I am concerned bc we don’t seem to have the same mechanisms in place to fight back.
Christofascists are the counterpart of Muslims seeking to impose sharia law.
Worst case scenario: the three theistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) team up to impose God on their own societies.
I highly recommend Frank Schaffer, who grew up in the Christian family the Republicans and right-wingers took over to start out this mess. He has the godly integrity to speak out against this defiling of Christianity and America.
The talking point of “Muslims want sharia law in America” is where you goofed.
Rather interesting that a religion whose deitic personification on Earth taught “love your neighbors as yourself”, “love your enemies”, and “judge not, lest ye be judged” is the biggest bunch of judgmental, hypocritical, bigoted cryptofascists.
Also – the three “theistic religions” haven’t got along since Europe foisted its psychotic knights on Jerusalem, saying shit like “To kill an infidel is not murder, but the path to Heaven”, and “God wills it.” Ironically, the very reasons why evangelicals hate Muslim-controlled countries and sharia law are the justifications for what they are doing in the U.S. – banning books, passing laws that allow for bounties on the heads of anyone having an abortion, forcing invasive – perhaps traumatizing – procedures on teen and preteen girls, and trying to prevent the teaching of any history that doesn’t glorify the US as the apex nation – something it is NOT, by any metric; because they can’t stand the idea that they are not right.
The voice that you’re trying so desperately to silence is the only voice that you need to hear ….. you’ve walked into a landmine of lies ( and are echoing them ) ……
When that voice goes silent , you’ve become so hardened that you may never come out of the trap you’ve waltzed into to your own peril …..
Stop the foolishness ….. you cannot fight against God and win ….. He just shakes His head and says , really you eat my food , breathe my air , live because of Me and you’re gonna back sass me like a little spoiled brat …… Come on really , God is full of grace and mercy ….. stop hurting yourself and others ….. God doesn’t get His feelings hurt , He doesn’t need you , you need Him ….. How about some gratitude and thankfulness instead of a spewing diatribe against a GOD that allows you to live and breathe and have your being ….. you’re an attention seeker and it could be that your not going to like what you get …..
Simple solution , Repent (turn from your wicked ways) , Confess your sin/sins , believe the Gospel and live in the light and love of “the” Benevolent GOD !
Confess you sin and live …..
Don’t be fodder for the devil or a puppet …..
You’re taking a lose/lose position !
One name can fix all of your problems !
J E S U S ……
Goodnight and I pray you get right and do right …..
Don’t get caught unprepared to meet your Maker ….. many have to their own self destruction …..
If I didn’t love you I wouldn’t even comment ….. come on , please don’t fall for all the traps and lies of the devil …..all of your buddies can do nothing for you in your problem with your Maker …..
Doling out spiritual and emotional abuse isn’t love.
Seriously you’re going to pull the victim card ….. ? how classic ….. maybe a riot should be staged ….. should more innocent people be hurt because you refuse to bow to your Creator ?
You can’t even face your own self , you try to call yourself an “it” or something foolish , you’re still the same you no matter how hard you try to run from your conscience and even more so , from God ….. you have assimilated to the thoughts and actions of those you encircle yourself with so that you don’t have to hear or think about how wrong you are …..
Someone hurt your feelings because they told you the truth somewhere in your past and now you’re running from reality running like you can really escape yourself ….. when you finish running you will find that “you” are still there !
If you only knew how good God is , He’s not out to hurt you …..
He’s not trying to put a bunch of rules and regulations on you by saying ” thou shalt not ” , He’s saying don’t hurt yourself , what you’re doing or wanting to do is only going to lead to you hurting yourself , I am God , I made you , I know what’s best for you , I’ve done everything and even given My only begotten Son for you ….. I always have been and always will be , I know the outcome of all things and I just don’t want you to hurt yourself …..
Drop the rebellious attitude ….. Come to JESUS and really live …..
Just for speculation I think you know all of this but you just don’t want to be lonely…..
Choose God and live
Choose not God and your life is a living death that comes to fruition once you do pass from this life …..
Entertain me this one thought ,
What if you’re wrong ? What would be the ramifications? Are you willing to pay the price if you’re wrong ?
Because you don’t want to face the truth doesn’t make it go away …..
ignorance of the law doesn’t make it null and void …..
Please for once believe that someone can love you and can be concerned ….. it’s not a contest of who’s right and who’s wrong ….. it’s someone who loves you and wants to help even though I don’t know you …..
God is not out to hurt but you are.
Love is not a place you are speaking from.
Begone from here pharisee, you have no power here because we strong in love.
Mods, this is abusive and transphobic, can we block?
I mean for the abuse of ellipses alone… ;-)
Anyone who has any experience of spiritual abuse and indoctrination can read the multiple threats in these two comments loud and clear
These comments constitute direct threats and abuse toward the author of this piece. These comments have been written in a willful attempt to harm.
I hope autostraddle mods choose to block, here
Mods, request comment be removed and action taken against troll.
If I’m wrong that’s my choice. Forced worship isn’t belief. Even if I followed your rules I’d still not get into heaven.
Save us the pleasantries. You’re just out for control. You don’t care about God’s love. Just that others do as you tell them.
You see nothing ironic about your concept of a god expressing irritation at “little spoiled brat(s)” and this same twisted concept of a deity not getting his feelings hurt? You’re nothing but the Amerikkkan Taliban.
Your God gave us free will. Your demands we all bow to your theology goes against that gift.
Your teachings go directly against the teachings of Christ. He hung out with the outcasts of society. The poor, the sick, the down trodden. All things you advocate destroying.
You aren’t Christlike. You and your organization are the antichrist.
I know I’m talking to a brick wall. You don’t care about logic, nor gods creations. You just want power and control. You aren’t Christian. You are the false church he warned us about. You’d best hope he is as forgiving as you preach.
Wow. Bravo for your courage and honesty here. You nailed the situation as well. These people are serious and scary and power hungry. I would propose but then I read up on the website. I am in the midst of organizing an article on my own ongoing family experience with this phenomenon and how exactly I’m going to word it. It’s hard!!
Hi Thanks for provide such a nice information
This article will have resounding impact on activism and provide a greater understanding of what we are up against. This is a landmark expose. It took courage and character to provide this information.
A long, boring moonbat screed. Get used to it as the Left gradually loses power. They were crazy in the Bush years. They’re going to go nuts when they realize that they’ve aborted their future as a movement.
Kieryn, I want you to know that I and my family will be praying for you.
Don’t.
What a joke of an article. How can anyone take your fear porn seriously?
ThankThanks you so very very much
This message needs to get out
Keep sharing
This is a very important article, but needs some solid verification. Hard confirmation. The following was posted on my facebook page:
FACT CHECK, FACT CHECK, FACT CHECK!
A serious article worth posting, but equally in need of serious fact-checking, because it is so chillingly important if true. It’s plausible, certainly. I’m not familiar with Autostraddle, a lesbian-feminist focused website, but appears to be fairly smart, accurate and progressive in its advocacy. Beyond that, I don’t know much about them. This article, however goes far beyond the limited concerns of the queer community, and needs thoughtful review.
The archipelago of private, religious, right-wing schools that has so successfully disrupted public education has been fairly well documented. There is little doubt about it having pushed its voucher and charter-school agendas forward in a systematic effort to dismantle the public education infrastructure of an enlightened, well-educated electorate and stuff our professions, civil service and other offices with a populated platform for theocratic fascism. So it is not out of the range of possibility that the HomeSchool movement and its offshoots, too, has also been at work systematically building another tributary dedicated to crypto-religious fanaticism and the intent to establish a new order for undermining diversity and secularism through American regime change. Some of this is already evident in the right-wing takeover of the government and subversives like Pence, De Vos, and their ilk.
But before we go off half-cocked, Kieryn Darkwater’s article needs to be thoroughly fact checked. No doubt there are radical and extremist evangelicals invested in these groups. Their missions also serve parts of their agenda. But is it as systematic a takeover as the article portrays? Are the various actors and stages mention really in as close an alliance as she suggests, and are their plans as deliberately strategic as they are portrayed? It may be so. But before we go sounding the alarm and putting the matter on call for the Resistance to engage (which does take energy), we need to know more, verify claims and vet sources.
The comments to the article don’t really provide hard evidence that things are as the article says. I will post a couple of them, however, to give a sense of where the factual dividing line seems to be. I hope some of you will look deeper into the reliability of Darkwater’s claims. Anecdotes are good ‘take a look’ road signs, but not assurances that they go where they claim to go.
[note: I have also authored a somewhat more general history of the Right’s encroachment and conscription of our educational system. It will be found here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/red-slider/education-and-the-end-of-evolution/969301166450046 ]
Kieryn, I have given serious thought and prayer to your article. The biggest problem I see is that you have placed your hope and trust in man. Man will fail you, and disappoint you every time. We are not perfect human beings. Please understand that as we try to live as close to biblical standards as possible, we still fail. We as Christians will sometimes place unattainable legalistic expectations on others. This sounds like the environment you may have been in. Also, understand that parents have the responsibility to raise their children to be respectful, considerate, and moral future adults. I will continue to pray for you, and all that have possibly been caused to stumble in their faith because of your article. Place your faith in Jesus Christ, and take your cares and concerns to Him. You will find a peace that you are not experiencing right now. He cares greatly for you. Love in Christ. Romans 13:11,12
I think Kieryn’s made it pretty clear that they don’t want anybody praying for them.
On February 9th I commented that I would be praying for Kieryn. She did not respond negatively. Please allow her to speak for herself. If we are having an adult chat that does not mean that we will all agree, but we should be respectful with our comments. There is nothing that I have said that should require reporting.
I never responded period as I didn’t see the comment until just now so don’t you dare take that as consent, as Cindy noted, I don’t want to be prayed for – I said so explicitly upthread; please don’t pray for me.
Also I’m explicitly agnostic, and I don’t appreciate you telling others and myself what I am and am not, and what I have or haven’t done, or do and don’t believe. Don’t ascribe your doctrine to my life and identity. I am not a cardboard cut out you get to define.
I don’t appreciate your assertion that I would be better off drowned than sharing the truth of my experiences. Nor the fact that you repeatedly misgender me by insisting on calling me “she” even as everyone else refers to me correctly, as if you know better than I, who I am. You screen name, you have made clear, is a misnomer. None of what you have said is loving, despite every attempt to seem so. All you’ve shown is you care more about spreading your diatribe and assumptions about my salvation and decision on What I Need To Do, According To You, To Be Saved – without even taking into consideration that I am an autonomous adult, not some _thing_ you can determine the fate of and I have outright rejected your faith.
Kindly step back and stop disrespecting my identity and choices.
derp. queer girl, not cindy. Thanks Queer Girl <3
Forgiving others that have hurt you, whether they have asked for forgiveness or not, will go along way towards healing your pain.I have to remind myself of this all the time when I want to reopen old hurts. Holding on to unforgiveness allows the person that hurt you to still be in control of your life. Try to put it behind you and move on, and be a role model for others. You don’t have to carry this pain around with you. There will always be someone that hurts you, don’t let it control your life. BTW using them/they in place of him/her he/she is a really new way of referring to people. A little grace there would be appreciated :) I think your age group is more involved in this than mine.
Not all homeschool families are as you described. I have finished homeschooling my children now. I can tell you that I never had plans to out populate others, or to take over the country with a secret agenda. I simply chose to teach my children from a Christian worldview, knowing all the while, that when they entered college this would not be the view from which they would be taught. They have each become very successful, caring, responsible adults. No damage was done by teaching them the way I did. They each have a mind of their own, and have decided what is important in their life and what is not. I am very proud of all four of them(not quiverfull).
“all that have possibly been caused to stumble in their faith because of your article.”
Doubt is what keeps one moving in their faith. I hope people HAVE stumbled because of this article, and use this to build on their faith by realizing that demonizing individuals who don’t fit into the evangelical module of what a biblical life should look like is not Christ-like at all.
And I have to say, as a Christian myself, disingenuous offers of prayer simply to ensure conforming of those standards is extremely offensive.
Not to mention the fact that justifying treating others as inferior or with judgement on ANY basis is just wrong. On any religious, humane, or basic moral level.
Cindy, As a christian I think that you know that I am referring to the scripture in Matthew 18:6. It is simply a warning for believers about the consequences of causing someone to stumble. Every word that was written was written from a heart of love. It’s obvious that Kieryn is a believer that is in a backslidden state. I would love for her to restore her relationship with our Lord and Savior. There is no demonizing those who don’t fit into the evangelical module of what a biblical life should look like, or justifying treating others as inferior or with judgement. I’m sorry that you thought that. I am stating that hope and peace will not be found in man, christian or not, because we are prone to sinful ways. Hope and peace can be found only in a true relationship with Christ as Lord and Savior. I’m sorry you did not understand that. I am praying for Kieryn to find true peace, not to conform to certain standards.
Bringing awareness to religious and political issues that cause physical and emotional harm to others is not causing someone to stumble. And if you believe that is the case, then essentially yes you are demonizing her for not conforming to the evangelical set of values.
Highlighting those issues is a challenge/encouragement for people to reflect on their values and beliefs in an ever-changing world. That’s not stumbling, that’s growth.
You write the numbers of passage down that discusses putting dark deeds aside here in the comment section of written work of people doing dark deeds in the name of your Lord within your entreaty to someone who has be harmed greatly in the name of Christianity to turn theirself back to the religion that has harmed them.
And now you own up to referencing a passage about how it would be better for someone to be drowned rather to question.
……
Go away.
Please just leave.
and I’m just going to leave this here. You should try reading John Shore sometime.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/2013/04/an-open-apology-from-christians-to-gay-people/
No one needs your prayers. Your prayers are based on judgment of the worse kind. The kind of judgment that kills.
I was raised in a similar home, also homeschooled. I am so glad you wrote this. The world is a much better place with you in it and I look forward to reading your next article!!
We can win if we strategize, organize, and find better ways to communicate our message. We have a better message and it is somehow losing. Let’s collaborate!
What if you weren’t homeschooled. God miraculously saved you from suicide since you were 13, you discovered at a liberal university that you believed in God and were political conservative (not having any prior training) and realized Marxism was crap. Doesn’t really fit your narrative but call me whatever you want lol.
Cindy, I understand that Kieryn has been hurt by people’s actions. I am sorry that happened. The point that I am trying to make is that it has been people not God that has caused the hurt. Man has taken what God has meant for good and for love and perverted it. There is so much pain in this world, and there is only One answer for healing, Christ.
Good night :)
The point is it’s simply not just people. These are key, high profile leaders in political office whom a significant portion of the population views as representatives of traditional Christian values and who want to see those values restored as “American principles.” You are minimizing the impact and the hurt some of these leaders and the ideas they’ve putting out there are doing to those who don’t align with those views.
Even if, hypothetically speaking, Kieryn was to heed your advice and “just turn back to Christ,” what would that even look like? It sounds like you’re suggesting she just let it go and ignore these people. Even from a spiritual level, that makes zero sense.
And Lex is right. This misplaced concern you have is contradicted by the bible verse you just threw at her telling her it’s better to be drowned than to have written this article and caused someone to actually think about it’s meaning.
Forgiveness goes along way toward healing. That is what I am suggesting. I’m not saying that is easy at all, but necessary so that the people that hurt Kieryn can not continue to control Kieryn’s life. I realize the scripture that I referenced seems harsh. It surprised me when I first read it. It’s a strong warning to be careful how we conduct ourselves. Thank you for your comments.
Interesting, well-written article except for one glaring error–Catholics are Christians!!
Not in the eyes of evangelicals, they aren’t.
Oh my, no. Catholics made and are making an enormous mistake by aligning with the Evangelicals. Believe me, I have lived amongst them. You are a Papist, and are a cult member. You are not a real Christian at all. If as a Catholic, you live in the US south amongst majority Baptists, you will be very alone.
You sound like the British, when they authorized the Penal Laws.
Don’t know what that is? It’s laws put in place to prevent the spread of the Catholic Church in the British Empire. In Ireland, one of these was the law that no Catholic could own a horse worth more than 5 pounds – in practice, this meant if someone was suspected of being a Papist, someone could say their horse was worth 6 pounds, or 10, or 1000 – whatever – and take it from them, without compensation.
Catholics were slaughtered under these laws. All because Henry VIII wanted a divorce, and the Catholic Church said, “No.”
Who’s the bigger cult – the Catholic Church (who is, it must be said, are by no means innocent), or the myriad of Protestant Christians who swarmed the rest of the world like locusts, acting in so many ways just as heinously as the Catholics or the Eastern Orthodox (the oldest denomination, by the by) in their darkest moments?
Sad, that a lapsed pagan has to educate you on why you’re sounding like a bigot, waving the ideological banner of those who have justified horrors inflicted on others in the name of a god.
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I’m not sure if this has been mentioned as I did not read all 500+ comments, but enough states have a strong Republican governor and governing bodies (senate and house) that it’s close to being able to change the Constitution to one where we would be changed to a Evangelical Christian nation. This article is frightening enough but combined with a potential to change the Constitution and with the potential to change the SCOTUS, it’s even more so.
I was raised an atheist in Modesto, the Bible Belt of California, during the 60s and 70s. I observed firsthand the methods and minds of evangelical Christians, had my first argument with a creationist on an elementary school playground, and watched in horror as Reagan welcomed the Moral Majority into the Republican Party when I reached my own majority.
Everything said in this essay reflects the statements I have been making for years. This is a religious war, and it cannot be fought, much less won, without understanding its history as well as studying how evangelicals think, plan, and fight. The time for playing nice ended on November 8th, 2017. I call on all true patriots to join the battle as the religious right cannot be allowed to turn our great country into a fascist theocracy.
What’s interesting is that they are trying to make Islam and Moslems the ENEMY but really – the religious right is more of an enemy to the principles this country was founded on and the progress it had made until recently than any Islamic terrorist. Islamic terrorists may bomb and kill people but these religious fanatics are destroying the spirit of this country and ironically, the very things that have the made it “Great” in the eyes of millions for so long.
Incredibly scary article Kieryn and one I hope more and more people read. However, also hopeful in that YOU wrote it and you were able with your intelligence and your ethics and your morals to see past the stupidity and hypocrisy. Let’s all work toward empowering and encouraging more of the youth trapped in these mindless religious CULTS to think for themselves and act in the best interest of HUMANITY.
Just as there are those on the far-right who see a liberal cabal taking over the government in the Obama era, there may be those on the right who fit the description in this article but it does a disservice to evangelical Christians and homeschoolers to paint them all with this brush, so I hope readers are aware that these groups are far from monolithic and the views of many who fit these labels are much more nuanced. Many in the evangelical Christian and homeschool community are as appalled at the current administration and the blind trust some Christians place in that administration as are Dems and independents. The extremism and loathing on both sides have led to where we are today and are turning off those in the middle who want reasoned, compassionate policies and respectful treatment for all. I’ve homeschool my kids for 26 years and know of a few like this, but most of the Christian homeschoolers I know are not this extreme and vary in their political views.
Sorry. I’m not convinced LuAnn. What this person wrote, I saw with my own eyes. Fact is, ‘they’ did not limit themselves to their own evangelical branches. They worked with Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists. They came to me when I was the youth coordinator for a Catholic church in LA. This was during my seminary days. They offered to organize a Christian homeschooling program for our Diocese. As part of the program, they had a “leadership” element that taught “faith-based activism” to teens with trips to Sacramento and DC. They came to our school, made a few presentations. Eventually we declined. But in refection, I’m amazed how closely her experience matches what I witnessed.
A true benefit to humanity would be to develop a home schooling curriculum that is both ecumenical and firmly ethical (the Dali Lama is working on a universal ethics). Such ethics will posit universal values, not relativism, and not the kind of fanaticism and evil zeal described in this article. This curriculum would also present science accurately along with iptional lessons on the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagava-Gita. these lessons would make use of true scholarship and humane interpretation. Some of the lessons would be adopted by schools too. P.S. I knew of this whole movement. The most evil partof it is how the movement has sucked in conservative Catholics led by the Acton Institute. Look it up. very scary. Paul Ryna and Steve Bannon would be heroes of the Action Institute. Liberals are clueless on many levels, including the role of Cambridge Analytica in winning the swing states for Trump. The Dems have nothing like this scientifically proven way of persuading/manipulating voters and winning elections. BTW, the research behind Cambridge Analytica was stolen by his lab assistant from a Cambridge University professor who is appalled by how his research is being used.
If you want to learn about the most powerful group along the lines of fanatical Christianity (which posits that Christianity = unregulated capitalism = right wing America = God’s will) then read “The Family” by Jeff Sharrett.
Wow, it looks like your schooling really failed you. I’m used to these sort of Leftist fulminations, but this takes the cake. Tell, me what sort of laws *do not* legislate morality??? How is it possible to advocate for anything without attempting to force your views on others??? Why does becoming a postmodern Left-wing seem to fry a person’s mind and leaves them incapable of anything other than wild screeching à la Rachal Maddow???
to the richard johnson new york post and his famely cbs anchor otis livingston told me he had sexual relation with mr’ johnson’s famely member he also told me he will kill johnson’s famely if they open ther mouth about it. richard johnson must becareful of otis livingston he is crime.
Overall a good article except where your own lack of education comes through. The Puritans actually established greater religious toleration in England than anybody before them. They abolished debtor’s prison. They removed the chains from the insane.In the American colonies they opposed slavery. Don’t think the Fundamentalists are next generation Puritans. The Puritans identified real abuses in society and removed them. Our own contract form of government is derived from Puritan minister Samuel Rutherford and his treatise, LEX REX, (the law is king) which landed him in prison, where he died.
I want to THANK YOU for writing this article. I was homeschooled in the 80s and 90s, before it was a thing. I guess you could say my parents were part of that small movement that started the bullshit that you were a part of.
I wish people could understand that homeschooling – especially by evangelicals – is rarely ever about providing a better education for their children. It’s about turning them into soldiers for God. I heard this term spoken A LOT by my parents, and by parents of other homeschoolers. They know what they’re doing. They knew that they were brainwashing us, and controlling our environment in an attempt to make us warriors for the right. They didn’t want us to have our own opinions, or to question things, or to treat those differently from us with dignity and respect.
I have been trying to ring the alarm of the dangers of homeschooling for years, but people won’t listen.
It takes a lot of courage to speak up for what you believe in, especially when it goes against everything you were taught. You are one brave soul, and I admire you for that. Keep up the good fight!
I am familiar with this movement: the seeds of which started with the born again craze in the mid 70s, and the mid 60s infiltration of the Conservative movement. I knew of a potential mayor whose campaign was backed by these kinds of folks and after the campaign he told them thanks, but the local party would set their own agenda. A policeman connected to that group stopped him the next day and kiddie porn was “found” in his trunk. In the 70s I lived with a minister and his son who had an affair so he had his ego supposedly deconstructed so he could served God/Jesus. According to him the Holy Spirit gave him power to judge others, tell the future (and how wrong he so often was.) and his ego, since “deconstructed,” was out of control IMO.
Yes, I saw the seeds of all this and have no doubt they will continue to grow: theological arsenic.
Thank you for sharing this. I am a secular homeschooling mom and encounter the ultra-religious homeschooling often in middle TN.
Thank you for writing this. It’s very scary, but it’s something we on the liberal side need to know. Sad to think that so many people are bound up in fear & hatred. Again, thanks.
You nailed it. I grew up in the IFB which is where the quiverfull started. I’ve left my faith after 35+ years b/c I could no longer buy what they were selling & the majority of “christians” are horrible people; this election has proven that. I’ve never been so scared in my life & it’s because I know what a Pence presidency will do. We are doomed if it comes to pass. We must resist as if our lives depend on it because it does!
This is a staggeringly elegantly composed and intensive piece. I, as well, was raised fundie Christian and self-taught. While we weren’t a piece of any development, and our philosophy was somewhat milder than the one depicted here, we were extremely dedicated to “reclaiming” the nation for Christ, regardless of the possibility that it implied taking it from gatherings who’d been minimized and disappointed. Unexpected then that I’d in the long run turned out as gay. Nowadays I take a gander at the present government and consider how nobody saw it coming, however then the vast majority don’t recognize what to search and tune in for. http://bit.ly/2oWWjNh
Great article and some very valid points. I’m a dad who homeschools his daughters. We were isolated within a mainstream specific “Christian” (rather Christ-centric)homeschool program. They study a lot of English grammar (that made me have to study to understand)the founding fathers and a lot of Greek philosophy, straight to your point of teaching critical thinking and writing. But,contrary to one of your points, it’s NOT THE RELIGION that’s dangerous, but those who have historically yielded it to keep and control people and make them docile and submissive to authority. Lastly, you have been duped into throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The problem isn’t reasoning, it’s sticking to YOUR point, regardless of what buttons they attempt to push, and regardless of how they try to control and steer the conversation (national or otherwise). Do not take on the mantle of the ignorant and idiotic. Think and meditate about it.
Love and blessings
For someone who claims to study English and rhetoric the last half of your comment makes absolutely no sense to me. On the other hand Kieryn’s article eloquently states her position found it on her own direct experiences and research.
“found it” should read “founded” … dogone Siri
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to the nancy gibbs an time magazine another editor from more magazine abby perlman recently got involved in dirty coraption business with crazy cbs anchor otis livingston to rob time magazine employees bank accounts. never trust abby perlman and otis livingston they bouth belongs in gail.
to the marvin olasky and his magazine. another editor from more magazine brette polin got involved in dirty coraption business with crazy cbs anchor otis livingston to rob world magazine employees banks accounts. never trust brette polin and otis livingston they bouth belongs in jail.
I have a daughter. No matter my beliefs or right or wrong I tried to teach her to think for herself. To do the research and reach her own conclusions.
This applies to religion as well. I don’t think it’s right to indoctrinate children.
Yes, I’d definitely say this person is at war with culture.
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How effective would it be to directly attack their faith? “You may think God is on your side, but let me assure you that you are not on God’s side. God gave us both reason and compassion, and you exhibit neither of those qualities. Is hate and fear all you have to offer in the Lord’s name?”
quiverfull is the worst most unbiblical cult out there. do they not know of the new testament? jesus never had kids. paul never had kids. jesus warns against having children….twice & blesses those who are sterilized, called eunuchs. crapping out kids is the most unbiblical thing one can do in this day & age. be fruitful & multiply is for adam/eve & then noah & co. ONLY…& anyway its OT. not meant for the rest of us!
Ahhh, you never met the Book of Mormon then….
It’s very sad and very scary to see people like this in 2017 still living in fear of the Catholic version of the bogieman. Time to grow up, get an education or seek professional help!
Isn’t that a contradiction to our Lord’s behavior toward Samaritans :: live and let live? Just exactly WHOSE BEHAVIOR do you presume to CORRECT?
This really struck me. The current political environment makes so much sense now. I was raised Christian. Taught much of this bull. It was paralyzing. So glad you posted this.
I’ve often searched for why I left Mormonism – and they are huge in this movement. Mormons believe you must eat sleep and breathe the religion so your entire family can return to God and be a family forever. That is the strongest hook you can possibly come up with – without Mormon baptism and Temple attendance you cannot ever see your family again after death. Forever is a long, long time to never be with family, your ? children. Think about that hook.
that “church” is nothing but a cult
Actually the word politics comes from the greek and it means of or pertaining to the citizens, literally everyone who is a member of a city-state is a politician. Politics is not something that takes place outside of our every waking moment the issue is that people are not involved and you are a sick evil twisted psychophant and if there was any truth to the bible you are the false Christians that has no purpose here other than to spread dangerous propaganda and keep people dumbed down.
Now fuck off.
Thank you, a good start. Readers also need to know who qualify as christofascists currently in positions of power. We need names and evidence of their categorization so that readers have a channel for action. I think I grew up with some of these folks, you nailed it.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Kieryn. Since you mentioned that most of them are unreachable with facts and reason, I’m curious what made you able to find your way out? Is there something we can learn from your liberation process?
Basically, this so called “Take over the Country for your own good” because your way is to make everyone your religion and this Country will be one big Christian Nation? What if we say no? You put everyone to death? Wow, this sound like a religion I heard a lot about someplace in the Middle East…..convert or Die? Sounds a lot like yours. They believe in the Quiverfull theory too–they just call it something else– And just like them, you are fodder/ammo in a war and warriors (your parents) don’t “bond with ammo”. Think about that….you were only created to be on a frontline of a war. This Country is the most unique Country in the world. WE ARE A NATION of Immigrants. We have all walks of life living here. We were founded on religious Freedoms and created a government that has the separation of religion and government. We all have freedoms that many other countries do not. It is the one thing that unites almost every different person in these United States. I think you mean well, and I do feel a little sorry for you and your church family. God Bless You.
Just. Wow.
This is true life Handmaid’s Tale stuff going on, and that show scares the crap out of me. I wouldn’t worry if this was a small group, but it seems as though these peeps are the biggest group of religious fanatics on earth.
Christofacists indeed. Thanks for the heads up, and the overwhelming fear.
You’ve got my attention. Sharing this now.
#RESIST
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So much of this letter/essay would be very difficult to verify that I have to take it with a grain of salt, so to speak. Yes, I am aware of people on several sides of the political and/or religious spectrum who are living and thinking on the edge of sanity, according to my thinking. The “Act according to our precepts or you are deplorable/will go to hell/won’t be allowed to speak in public/should be silenced, etc. people are in all political groups and most religious groups. They have become very prominent on the Left. Let’s fight that approach wherever it is present.
This isn’t a new tactic. “Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man” That was the Jesuit motto, alleged to be attributed to Francis Xavier, the co-founder of the Jesuit Order. The implication is that the best opportunity to indoctrinate a person in a lifetime of belief and devotion to religious dogma is when they are young.
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-warfare
Great. Next, you’ll be telling us Jeremy Christian was a registered Democrat who was accosted by those two black girls on the MAX and slashing the throats of the men who interceded to save them was an act of self-defense.
Why do you guys always end your screeds with maniacal laughter?
Good for you. Good article. What you have written is hard for people to accept or get their minds wrapped around, but it’s how it is. Conservatives circle the wagons. It’s what they do. You don’t reason with this. Too bad, but it’s how the conservative mind tends to work.
While reading this article my thoughts went to the indigenous people of this land. So called Christians from another land come to this land and told these people they were wrong in their beliefs and went on to commit genicide. These God fearing white skinned humans did all they could to enforce their beliefs and ways on these land loving humans who cared for the land they felt was given to them by their “god” to care for and respect the life all around them, not just worship. You see, I’m an atheist but I can respect others beliefs as long as it’s not harmful or dangerous or allows room for violence. I believe in love and respect of all mankind, not worship. I don’t and never will try to influence someone to think like me. I came to my way of thinking through lots of trial and error. I watched the hatred and listened to the condemnation in various church’s. I’ve also seen many who do good things in the name of God and those ones are amazing! I also know God isn’t needed to be a good human. My children are proof of that. Life is full of so much to love and enjoy! Hatred spoils that part of life. Hate because someone thinks or feels differently than you ar your church. And so you all know, this kind of thinking and hatred comes from white people in white church’s! It’s called “White Supremacy”
Why the need to attack? I see this all the time in comments after reading an article. So you don’t agree with what she says, that’s your right in a free country, but why attack her looks or the things she enjoys in life?
If a rattlesnake came slithering through my house, I could not be more scared. What’s become of our country that organizations like that come to exist and worse, overcome. My hope is that come next election, people of good will will turn out to be the overwhelming majority. But maybe not…
Kieryn, your write-up significantly deepened my nascent understanding of the fundamentalist mindset that has impacted a large portion of Christianity in America. Thank you for your courage and honesty. I recently completed a powerful history by Pulitzer-prize winning author Frances Fitzgerald entitled “The Evangelicals”, published only in April. This was an eye-opener and has helped me understand the Christian right’s roots going back to the early 1700’s and more immediately the past 30 years of the fundamentalist mindset as it has militantly and tenaciously manipulated Protestant denominations with its rigid beliefs of biblical inerrancy and forcing itself into the cultural and political life of our country. This activism has succeeded in toxifying the country as it has spread from the pulpit, the mass media, the tea party, the Republican Party, and now the rise of Trump and greed capitalism.
To see how this is playing out in a part of the home schooling movement, along with the school voucher movement, is painful. I think of the kids being brainwashed instead of growing up healthy, enquiring and investigating their world and finding their ways, trusting their essential qualities. It is becoming clear to me, finally, of how this plays into segregation, which only leads to stereotyping and “othering”. Fundamentalism seems to be present in all the religions and we know what horrors and damage has been done in the name of Christ, or Allah, or other rigid orthodoxies. Furthermore, there’s the intersection of white supremacy that’s at the core of our discord. We need to wake up to what this is about. We’re all fish swimming in polluted waters, not noticing our immersion in racism, nor recognizing we are at the effect of fear.
I was 22, last days of college, when I risked not going to church one Sunday, hoping I wouldn’t get struck down by mortal sin. The Roman Catholic dogma. Somehow I survived and weened myself from bondage. Yes, the ancient Hebrews fled from bondage, Egypt. I know that this bondage is passed down from generation to generation and grace to me is crossing over into the desert, to wander in the wilderness in order to find freedom. Breaking from the rigid mindsets.
So what now to do as so many are asking? The first step for me is establishing a spiritual discipline where I am loosening the conditioning and cultivating the heart qualities of caring and compassion, training this towards yourself so you learn to extend it outwards. It’s critical that we bring awareness to reactivity so we’re not coming from fear and hatred. That takes a lot of discipline.
Then, with the clear intention to fight the rise of fundamentalism (and white supremacy), joined like-minded folk and learn as much as you can about it (and the underlying fear). Strengthen yourself along with others and strategize in order to enter the fray. Fight the good fight non-violently, creatively. As Michelle Alexander says, Trumpism is the resistance. They’re resisting the forces of justice, out of fear, and hatred. Lost in bondage.
I’m just beginning. Many of you are far more saavy and involved. I am center left and proud. I am liberal and progressive, and proud. I am waking up and willing to make a difference, for a healed world and to deal with the ignorance and dangers that are now visible.
triggered much? i feel sorry for you ceejaykay.
A former homeschooled far-right evangelical “Christofascist” described the grassroots movement hidden under our noses with a plan in the works for decades to take over American society and government. Something similar could have been written by a right winger talking about the hidden Jewish-banking conspiracy but somehow this has more of a ring of authenticity and, if it has any basis in reality, it is as scary as it gets. My strongest reaction is to feel a certain urgency about relocating outside the US.
Hello. As a Christian (a follower & believer in the teachings of Jesus Christ) I have to say that 99.9% of what is taught & believed by the so-called Christian Church is absolute bullshit & contradictory to everything Jesus said. I don’t go to church for this very reason. All of these indoctrinated, fundamentalist, self-serving, self-proclamed “Christians” completely missed the message. His message of peace, love, tolerance, acceptance, helpfulness to your fellows, forgiveness, giving wholely of yourself, charity especially for the less fortunate- all lost on them. I also try to diligently follow the 10 commandments. I believe his words that none shall come to the father & enter the kingdom of heaven but thru Him. He made a new covenant with mankind. The rest of the Bible are nice stories, some historically accurate, but not a part of His teaching & covenant. Anyone following a hateful, vengeful, intolerant message are lost to grace & not chr, I repeat NOT
Matthew 10:34-39 – Christ didn’t come to bring peace but to save people from their sinfulness.
Matthew 5:17 – He didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.
Christ did love and promote love- but it was not a love of emotions. It was real love- love that meant caring for people’s standing before God (the only thing that is going to matter for eternity) over their happiness. He kept company with corrupt tax collectors, with people who were what the Bible defines as sexually immoral, because he loved them. But His loving them did not mean He gave approval to their actions. He came to be a Savior, but, according to the New Testament, Christ is also going to come back as the ultimate Judge.
The Bible (New Testament) tells us to admonish and exhort and encourage each other to grow in holiness (putting off bad actions/attitudes and putting on good ones) and to not “neglect to meet together.” There is also the biblical model for the church with leaders and many examples of regional churches. All that to say- if you are a follower of Christ, you should be attending a church.
Very insightful. Can you write another article about what made you turn away from that worldview?
I grew up in the fundamentalist religious right as well, and this article rings true to me. I have commented to numerous friends that while Trump is terrifying for his impetuous behavior (he has codes to our military power!?!), Pence terrifies me even more. Few friends on the left understand this, and your article does a great job of pointing out why. Trump is a bombastic bully; Pence is a true believer. The brand of fundamentalism the religious right are interested in doesn’t look much different than extreme Islamic fundamentalism. Thanks for this article, which does a good job of pointing out the committed, long term planning that has gone into this moment, and why so many evangelical Christians have been willing to lay down their scruples to bow to and appease the current political power.
The one point I’d like to clarify, however, is that not ALL homeschooling falls into the category of religious principles. There are a significant number of secular homeschoolers who choose homeschooling for educational and intellectual reasons, including some who practice an “unschooling” philosophy. These homeschoolers come out of various free schooling movements that are also practiced in Europe. I can point to several local examples in the Boston area, including Sudbury Valley School, the Voyagers (a secular homeschool coop in Chelmsford), and the Framingham Makerspace. While the religious right has utilized the freedoms found in homeschooling to train their “army,” there are a lot of wonderful things to celebrate in the freedom we have in the USA to educate our children in a variety of ways.
Wow. It sounds like you have a lot of bitterness over your family not accepting your sexual choices and that bitterness has become the lense through which you view everything.
Just seems so far from bitter to me. Sounds like how a compassionate, wonderful person deals with terrible stuff from the past. Maybe you’re the one with lenses on.
This is where the roots, my mother’s family’s roots, came from. My maternal grandfather, the Baptist preacher, didn’t make the transition to the culture wars (too old) but he was their harbinger and he raised me. In fairness to all concerned, I must credit the secular institutions (especially public school and the public library) of my childhood for helping me find the way out, plus some other peculiar forces driving me.
Wow…thank God I was raised atheist. Kieryn, the intelligence and clarity of your written communication is superb, the best in recent memory. This article connects many dots, revealing a parallel Conservative infrastructure as ominous as that of the Koch brothers. It also reinforces my view that fundamentalist American Protestants have more in common with other fundamentalists, like the Taliban, than with moderates of their own religion.
Kieryn, I am so glad you escaped from that world. Thank you so much for telling us your story. It is absolutely harrowing to read. People need to hear things like this. The right-wing has been indoctrinating their children as “culture warriors” and we can see the maleficent fruit it has borne just in the US. Things like right-wing Christianity are why I am today Pagan.
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Its not every day that a Republican just outright admits that their party is fascist in nature. You just dunk on yourselves for us. It removes the need for us smart people to tell directly confront you with the fact that you are fascist and stupid. All we have to do is roll the tapes and let you see for yourselves. It is quite amusing to watch really.
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I’ve had this article bookmarked for years and I keep coming back to it. Today’s reading was particularly upsetting, given the news of Roe V Wade. The next steps are just as terrifying. Please, let me come back to this article in a few years time so I can comment that their plan didn’t succeed in the end.
Evangelical conservatives started taking over their local republican parties and founding organizations like Operation Rescue, Homeschool Legal Defense Association, Family Research Council and Focus on the Family, just to name a few. They founded the Religious Right and then the Tea Party. They took over the Republican Party and slowly but surely, they’re taking over the country.
In 2006, I was one of the leaders of the Republican Party of New Mexico. I was there when the conservative wave swept the country. I watched the House and Senate flip, I watched the GOP take over the White House. I watched my party try to hold onto the House, only to lose it in 2010. I watched the party lose its majority in the Senate. I watched the GOP lose control of the House of Representatives and the Senate.
I am certain that this is going to turn out well. Thanks for sharing this story.
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I was certain that Republicans would leave Trump out to dry after his first impeachment and allow Pence to take the top job. I was shocked when they refused to convict him TWICE after being impeached TWICE.
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Every time I come back to this article I find more details relating to even further republican malfeasance.
They seem to be following a playbook, that’s for sure
Thank you for this article. I’ve been trying to put into words how these dominionists and supremacists are seeking to take over America.
This essay does the best job of explaining it so far.
I was shocked to learn about how deep the evangelicals have taken over the Republican party. When a friend pointed me to this essay I began to understand why.
https://usevur.com/uncategorized/why-is-conservatism-dominated-by-hatred-and-violence/