This week on Glee, everyone was excited to mash things up, just like babies who wish all those bananas on all the banana trees could be mashed up into mashed-up bananas and the Glee fans who want to take said hypothetical mashed-up banana paste and blowtorch it into Finn’s eyeballs.
But before we begin, is Rumor Has It/Someone Like You still stuck in your head? Me too. So let me just address that for a minute.
There are quantifiably positive assets to this video: the song suits Mercedes and Santana vocally, it’s got good choreography, it’s a well-orchestrated mash-up, the dresses are cute, it almost makes up for Margot Tennenbaum butchering “Turning Tables” last season.
So yes, there were those things.
But something else too, right? The way Santana sings “don’t forget me, I begged” the second time she sings it? We watched that video 654 times not knowing where it’d fit in to this week’s episode but knowing something was different about Santana. She seemed… well… vulnerable. The Santana who performed that song wasn’t the Cheerios Captain or the brassy firecracker from Lima Heights Adjacent or the Glee Club Diva — the Santana who performed that song was just a teenage girl.
She sings/dances like a person who’s just been told something terrible is about to happen and isn’t sure yet what that “something” will be, only that it will be terrible. That “something” is tragically unknowable and therefore that “something” is really really bad — not because of its severity but because of its unfamiliarity. It’s like the difference between a hurricane and an alien invasion. The first is horrible but predictable. You’ve seen hurricanes on the news, in movies, read about them in school. The second could be anything.
And on that note, let’s begin.
This week’s episode was directed by Eric Stolz, who you may recall from a spate of 80s/90s movies about underemployed Generation Xers with a lot of feelings. Also from Capricia.
As per ushe, I’ll be recapping only the parts I deem worthy of my attention. Obviously the following things are not worthy of my attention: Sue/Burt Senate Situation, Quinn/Puck/Shelby/Beth Baby Mama Drama Situation.
In short, Puck pursues Shelby as he’s certain they’re the “ultimate mashup” and despite being 18, he’s banged tons of older chicks and is ready to ride the Shelby Train to Tuna Town. Of course when he follows up that assertion with “I’m in love with you,” it’s patently clear that despite looking 29, he is indeed 18. Puck rats out Quinn’s baby-snatching plans, throwing Child Protective Services and Quinn off the trail. Subsequently, Shelby redacts Quinn’s Beth-visitation-rights which inspires Quinn, for some ungodly reason known only to Ryan Murphy if to anyone at all, to call Shelby a “cash whore,” despite the fact that Shelby only takes American Express. Hey-o!
Also Sue wants voters to think Burt Hummel has a baboon heart.
Also, that he is married to a donkey:
We pick up right where we left off, with the happy de-virginized couples cuddling on their respective bloody bedsheets. JUST KIDDING! Hahaha it’s Glee. Each episode is its own little world, like Legos.
We open in 1985 (circa Weird Science), where Puck’s pitching a tent for Shelby at her whateverith hour class in which the entire Glee Club is enrolled.
We pan the students — Santana, in sassy sunglasses, pouts and pops bubble gum, Brittani teases her ponytail, talks to herself and adjusts her shoelace-inspired warrior princess headband — eventually landing back on Puck’s little ditty and his inappropriate-for-teenagers fantasy:
We transition seamfully back to the Glee classroom, where Blaine and Mike grab their penises and shake their legs like they’ve got squirrels in their pants and Puck sings “Hot for Teacher” like a really really really poor man’s Van Halen.
Finally this goat rodeo releases us from its insufferable grip and Rachel expresses concern that the song’s subject matter is clearly too racy for the Semiannual Final Sectional Regional National Physical Glee Contest or whatever.
Before anyone can explain that nobody performs songs more than once on this show and therefore she’s got nothing to worry about, Will clears it up by declaring it’s only dirty if Puck’s INTENT was dirty, because intent is nine-tenths of the law. Rather than fess up that he’s jonesing for Taye Diggs’ hot wife, he says he just loves Van Halen, and Will’s like PARTY ON WAYNE ’cause you know if anyone supports the “Hot For Teacher” concept, it’s Will Schuster.
So, we’re now into the eighteenth week of campaigning for School Leader President Council and Brittany’s handing out balloons and promising robot teachers as well as something about MySpace I can’t decipher due to ungodly amounts of mumbling allowed on this set.
Meanwhile, Kurt’s gypsy-wandering around McKinley wearing all of Marco Polo’s Original Oriental Textiles and his great-grandmother’s rotting olive green afghan from the Civil War and, I think, a doo-rag. Kurt really takes layering to a whole new level here — odd, considering his layers were cited last episode as an impediment to the possibility of hot wild animal buttsex.
Sue says something to him about smear tactics and how swiftboating is the only way down the canal leading to his Student Leader victory, but Kurt insists on playing it clean. He’s mosquito-netted his entire body for crying out loud.
Next we rendez-vous in the auditorium, where The Troubletones and New Directions have been ordered by their respective songleaders to go. In the few minutes preceding the Arrival of the Adults, Santana and Rachel start fighting. Santana takes a cheap shot at Rachel about her alleged moustache. This is redic cause Lea Michele would never let that happen, girlfriend is v. serious about effective beauty regimens.
But before the War of the Words can truly take off, Will emerges from the wings with a guitar and Shelby shocks ’em via the backdoor carolling the opening chords of a “You and I” mashup. About 50% of the children then magically transform into sanguine idiots, swaying back and forth like birds on Trazodone. 49% decide to, um, turn the piano around in a circle:
The remaining 1% is Santana, who ambivalently surveys all these victims of helium overdose (via Brittany’s campaign balloons).
Will announces that this rousing Lake Woebegon musical incident has effectively displayed the message that “sometimes bringing together two conflicting things can create something totally unexpected,” as if Mercedes’ t-shirt’s combination of “t-shirt” and “gigantic glittery image of a giant bottle of perfume” hadn’t been making that point from the moment we entered the room.
At Glee Club, for which Kurt has donned full Polo Regalia and is a hop skip and a jump away from a permanent spot in The Saddle Club, the team is divided about which band to mash-up. Basically everyone is on one side and Finn is on the other.
Finn and his ovaries demand that they do Hall & Oates because Hall & Oates are awesome for “staying together over the long haul.” Furthermore, the unnecessary character Irish Spring will take the lead, because that’s the worst idea ever and Finn has the worst ideas ever. Everyone does what he wants anyway though because they’re afraid of being crushed by his hands.
Rachel nearly pops her top with excitement about “staying together for the long haul” and the rest of us cringe ’cause Rachel Berry really needs to break up with Finn Hudson and therefore the “long haul” is petrifying.
Enough about Hall & Oates, what’s happening in the HALLWAY?
NO NOT THAT HALLWAY! This hallway:
Finn, like any lesbian with more feelings than only one girlfriend can handle, has found someone bored enough to listen to his psychodrama overanalysis of Santana’s psychological makeup. He surmises that Santana’s “trash talk” (a “sports term” Finn shares with Irish Spring, ’cause Irish Spring doesn’t know it ’cause there are no sports in Ireland) aims to undermine the Gleeks’ already delicate egos and convince them that they’re the losers we all know they are. This is basic queer theory.
Look, it’s Santana and Brittany!
Santana: “Hey there, Orca.”
Finn: “Hey, Santana. You look like an ass-less J-Lo.”
[Sidenote: an ass-less J-Lo still has this face, is the thing:
Irish Spring: “You’re skinny like all the crops failed on your family’s farm.”
Santana: “That is the lamest thing I didn’t understand a word of.”
Brittany: “Not one word.”
Then Santana digs her claws in and really goes for it, this time revealing accidentally how, exactly, she got this way:
Santana: “Is that really all you can come up with? You seriously think you can out-insult me? I’m from Lima Heights. I was raised on insults. It’s how mi abuela put me to sleep at night. And she is not a nice lady; you know, she tried to sell me once. And it wasn’t until I got to kindergarten that I learned my name wasn’t ‘Garbage Face.'”
Sure, it’s hyperbolic, but there’s truth beneath it. Trash-talking is more than a sport to Santana, it’s a survival mechanism.
There’s only one way to settle this, says Finn, and before you can moan “Sing-Off” or scream “SCATTERGORIES!” he says “dodgeball.” That should be easy for Finn the Lesbian to handle, he’s been dodging balls all his life. Hey-o!
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“KURT ALWAYS DREAMED OF HAVING HIS VERY OWN PONY”
And he got one. Blaine.
Page two link does not work :(
Ahhhh it works! Rejoice!
Also also also, fuck Finn for outing Santana. I would have kicked that asshat in the nuts. I hate it when people think everyone should be out of the closet and they have the right to out someone. I don’t care who the fuck the person is, be it a cheerleader from a podunk town or a big name Hollywood actor. NO ONE has the right to out them, it’s there choice and there choice alone. It’s such a deeply personal process, and sometimes the consequences can be incredibly damaging. A person needs to come out when they’re ready, not when someone THINKS they’re ready or THINKS they NEED to be out. Fuck, outing just pisses me off.
And if they turn around and do the “Oh my gosh, tank you so much Finn for outing me! I’m such a better person!” Good lord I will be raging mad. I have yet to know anyone who’s been outed who was in the end happy they were.
SANTANA IS A BITCH!!!! Finn didn’t out her because he thought she should be out. He outed her because she is an evil bitch. Out of the many characters on this show that I can understand or empathize with she is the only one i can’t. BECAUSE SHE IS A BITCH. if you are going to be vicious, expect a vicious response. Not to mention, he didn’t announce it to the school. About three people overheard. Finn and Kurt are basically the only nice guys on this show. and oh yeah…SANTANA IS A BITCH!!
Santana being a “bitch” does not mean that she deserves to be outed – something rather alarming that you are implying here. I can’t be arsed arguing this myself so here’s a quote from someone who does it better than me:
Finn “stood up” to Santana by wielding his privilege, violating her privacy in a PUBLIC PLACE, putting her at risk, talking shit about something that was none of his fucking business and nothing he’ll EVER be able to understand on any level.
Santana could lose her family over this. Santana has very little legal protection for being a homosexual, should people choose to harass and degrade her.
TL;DR: Finn’s an arsehole.
I like Santana.
There’s a question of hypocrisy, though. Is it ok to, for example, out a closeted gay politician who’s pushing strong anti-gay legislation on the basis of his hypocrisy?
That’s not really being disputed, but if politicians are being vehemently homophobic in their policies, then they have a right to be outed. Santana is not at all comparable to a politician who wields the power to define the rights of LGBT* people.
SANTANA NEED TO GO SOME WHERE AND FOLLOW HER DREAM’S
I love when you use Tegan and Sara lyrics as the picture comments, it’s like I’m in on some secret lesbian inside joke.
I don’t usually comment…
but kudos, this is the shit. It’s times like these that make me remember why I watch glee.
I hope they go somewhere with the outing storyline, as much as it pains me to say it, I think Santana should go through some shit.
‘Cause if they go a “thank you for outing me” route, I’ll be pissed.
And I’ll be pissed if Britanny isn’t involved, on screen, with helping/comforting Santana in some way.
I think Britanny said that Rachel was still on MySpace and thus unfit to lead.
The Kurt speech about dodgeball being equal to stoning was ridiculous.
Puck and Shelby just need to stop. Everything. Now.
I’m reading a lot about Finn shouldn’t have outed Santana but….and then rationalizing a reason why it could be understandable. I really can’t agree with this. No one should be outed, no one should have that decision taken away from them.
The song list for the next show makes me wonder what they’re up to. Melissa Etheridge AND k.d.lang? And who’s singing what?
Does anybody else remember the episode where Finn “outed” the pregnant girl he thought was his baby-mama to her parents and got her kicked out of her house?
I feel like ruining people’s lives by telling them they should be honest with everyone and then forcing them to do so because they are obvs cowards is his special talent. Next episode he’ll be alerting the school officials that Shelby and Puck are a thing so that they can be “open” about it.
“Really, Papio, Really??”
For the love of God, please someone get my pun. PLEASE.
i see what you did there. four for you.
For real though, Finn is worse than season 2 Helena.
Haha…so true. This made me laugh.
that was a VCR.
and a VHS tape.
santana is purdy.
also, where did they even find a VCR? Glee goes to the garage sale?
I love these recaps!
I just wanted to say thanks for bring out an issue that I really think is often overlooked, which is that Santana is of color! I do anticipate that in the next episode, they are going to go into how being a minority and a lesbian is really complicated in many many ways. As a minority there is like an unknown group of people who may share your racial or ethnic identity and who feel accountable for your actions. It’s almost like an instantaneous disassociation from the community when a person of color comes out. Or at least this has been my experience.
I really hope they do the issue justice, though I know that that is hard in general. Maybe we will get to meet Santana’s abuela! :D
I think all that requires a level of complexity and sensitivity that is way beyond Glee. They can’t even manage to develop Mercedes, Tina, Mike and Artie beyond their races/disability after two whole seasons, I really think intersectionality is beyond them. That would be nice, though.
i’d almost rather not see them try
After seeing how they wrote/handled Kurt’s story, I have some hope they can do this well Granted this is a woman and an outing, not a coming out but I think they have a writer/consulting producer this season that is a lesbian. That could help.
Hope springs eternal.
I wish that Glee could have some fucking continuity because I am sure that Kurt is not going to tell Finn off for being The Worst Person Ever.
seriously. that makes me so angry. like burt is all i’m here for you santana i’ll talk to your parents but doesn’t say anything about how it’s his son’s fault…rude.
Well, technically, Finn couldn’t have known that it would go that far, so the ad isn’t “his fault” per se. Not that that excuses AT ALL what he did. I mean, Kurt had Karofsky actually threatening his life and he still didn’t out him.
On the other hand Finn was yelling at Santana about coming out in the MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING HALLWAY WHILE OTHER STUDENTS WERE PRESENT. How is that NOT outing her to the entire school and by extension the community? Everyone knows how quickly things like that spread not only to other students, but to their families.
Frankly, I do think it is his fault. Just because he didn’t think the consequences of his actions through doesn’t mean it isn’t his fault.
Maybe I’m speaking out of turn because I’ve never had a campaign ad target my biggest insecurity, but it’s the writers’ fault for conflicting fans by making Santana overly mean this episode.
I don’t understand people placing insecurities concerning sexuality over insecurities concerning other things. The only difference is society is less cruel to other things, but really it’s all subjective and it’s all dependent on how a person interprets it.
Yes people end their lives because they’re confused over their sexuality and taunted by it, but people have also committed suicide for being called worthless, ethnic slurs, fat, ugly, stupid, etc…
Outing someone is bad, but that’s assuming EVERYONE knows the repercussions of it. Finn’s character has a gay step brother and a gf with two gay dads. In his dense mind, it isn’t that big of a deal for her. Santana is a confident sometimes over-confident girl who attacked his BIGGEST insecurity (no, not being a doughy man-lesbian) of being worthless and talent-less and downright average in comparison to everyone around him. People are on anti-depressants for things far less.
What I got out of the episode is that bullying is bad and if you don’t want your biggest vulnerabilities exposed then you shouldn’t expose others. Essentially NO ONE deserves to have their biggest insecurities exposed to the world. No one.
Idk… I’m not excusing Finn at all, but I feel like when it hits close to home (like it does for many ppl on this site), people tend to think their woes and tribulations are greater than others when really we have no idea what makes some one cry at night. Could be their sexuality, could be their self-worth (lack-thereof) and obviously for Finn (as seen by the fanciful/clumsy editing last episode before the America performance) he is hella troubled about his life and purpose and blah.
“I don’t understand people placing insecurities concerning sexuality over insecurities concerning other things. The only difference is society is less cruel to other things, but really it’s all subjective and it’s all dependent on how a person interprets it.”
But I think that’s exactly the point. The reason that people place insecurities concerning sexuality over insecurities concerning other things has a lot to with the fact that those insecurities do not simply take place inside oneself, but also have very real manifestations in the way one is treated by society. When Santana calls Finn talentless, at the end of the day, the result is just Finn feeling like shit (which is totally not okay. Santana has absolutely no right to make Finn feel like shit, simply because she doesn’t like him). But when Finn outs Santana, there is a whole world of very serious repercussions outside of/in addition to Santana feeling like shit. Finn will not get kicked out of his home or threatened in the hallway because Santana brought out his worst insecurity. However, Santana might. And that shit is way more fucked up than anything that Santana said to Finn, even if it did bring out his biggest insecurity.
actually, it’s santana’s fault. don’t pick fights if you can’t finish them. also, he didn’t tell her parents. about three people heard. and if santana wasn’t such a bitch, none of it would have happened. it may not be right to out people, but since shes a bitch, i really don’t care. and it’s not his fault that the one person who overheard had connections. everyone blaming finn is stupid. he’s the nice one and santana’s the bitch. and then, instead of acknowledging that what happens next will be the consequences of her own actions, she slaps finn. BITCH!
I agree with this, as someone who wasn’t teased for my sexuality in school (I didn’t figure it out until college), but was teased for a whole host of other things – there definitely is a difference. It sucked to have kids call me a snob or a nerd or make fun of the music I liked or the fact that I always raised my hand in class, but there was no chance that I was going to go home and have the hate continue there. There was no chance that people mocking me for my nerdiness was going to have repercussions outside of my school. I really can’t stand when straight people who have been bullied for things like that think they know what it’s like to be bullied for being LGBT. They really don’t.
It is true that sexual orientation isn’t the only secret that can ruin your life like that, though, if it gets out to the wrong people. We saw a similar case of that with Quinn’s pregnancy in season 1, in that she was kicked out of her house when her parents found out. Note that that was also Finn’s doing. You’d think he’d learn, but no…
But anyway, outing someone is on a totally different level from calling them fat.
I mean, I’m not holding out any hope on this either because it’s Glee, but in that last exchange with Finn and Santana, right before she she slapped him, they quickly cut to Kurt’s face and he looked… I don’t know, put out? I sort of got the feeling that maybe they were going to do something along those lines.
i think so too, i think kurt is going to seem oddly silent for the first 15 minutes and then give him a very serious speech which summons his own experiences and compares them to santana that will make our eyes water somewhere around the 30-minute mark.
are mash-ups a thing anywhere else than glee?
also, i liked this episode. i especially liked when brittany kryptonited santana.
I’m really sick of seeing straight people try and play down how bad it is to out someone like that when they have no clue what it’s like or how traumatic that would be.
My school had a dodgeball game that was dodgeball on steroids called Elimination. The teachers forced us to stop playing when someone broke their arm, so we changed the name and kept playing it.
i watched this whole episode just to watch santana sing and slap finn. on another note, was the pizza delivery thing at the bottom of the campaign ad a herman cain thing?
yes i believe so
good. i wasn’t sure if i was just giving the writers too much credit.
Yeah… while the writers of Glee can’t write for shit, they do follow current events. It’s like when Sue got glitterbombed in an earlier episode.
I was lol’ing so much at the pizza I forgot how devastating the ad was for a minute.
I LOL’d at the “This is the lesbian sign” then I felt bad since it was humiliating moment for San.
You guys, I listened to Adele last semester when I was coming out, and she was my lifeline; that soaring lovely voice was the perfect conduit for all those crazy emotions.
By the end of this episode I was bawling. It was too fresh. Too close to home.
It’s ok, I was too.
Intern Grace, can I nominate you for an Autostraddle Senior Superlative Award for Biggest Sweetheart? This is the second or third time I’ve spazzed feelings everywhere and you had a nice thing to say. Thank you for that.
That really should be a thing. Except Grace would win it every week.
Psh, you guys, trust me, there are way bigger sweethearts on this team.
Dear Glee: If you’re going to keep making episodes that give me feelings, either make your other episodes good too, or tell me when the Santana episodes are. I will not suffer another “first time” episode. Also, can 2 weeks happen right now?
Naya Rivera KILLED it in this episode. I swear, those last two and a half minutes were more compelling and better-acted than 95% of the rest of Glee.
Also…Best. Recap. Ever. The alt-tags and picture comments were hilarious and on point.
*alt-caps. can’t type.
Yeah, I like how the A.V. Club’s recapper actually gave separate grades for the first 55 minutes of meh and the last 5 minutes of awesome: http://www.avclub.com/articles/mashoff,65111/
all i can say is L-O-L @ the next episode title/tracklist..every stereotypical lesbian thing other than slapping some indigo girls in there. SANTANA-CENTRIC EPISODE FOR SURE. fuck yes.
also tumblr is in a shitstorm debate over finn v santana
also the troubletone dodgeball scene was HOT….and ironic that santana was the only one who wasnt out *ba dum chaaa*
and santanas hall & oates facial expression was literally the same as mine when that song started, and i laughed hysterically when her face was shown
also i am defs not obsessed with santana. clarification.
Someone on YouTube said that they liked the Hall & Oates mash-up better than the Adele one and I wanted to be like WHAT? DO YOU HAVE EARS?
And finished it off with “I know I’m in the minority with this one” and I wanted to be like “Yeah. Because you’re WRONG.” But it had a lot of upvotes and so I just felt mad about all the people in the world who have no taste.
I didn’t even recognize the Hall & Oates songs and couldn’t figure out why the hell they had decided to re-live the 80s with those horrible outfits and songs
I hate bullying and making bullying seem funny or “fierce” or whatever so I really hate Santana. But I also hate outing. I just really hate them both.
this so much.
Amazing recap as usual and the photo captions are particularly hilarious this time around, especially the one on the Will/Shelby pic.
I’m only at the beginning… Grace’s teacher from Once & Again directed the episode? Why did she have a crush on him anyway? That was so weird. And how cute were Katie & Jessie? Ahem, anyway, back to reading the recap…
I have so many feelings about this episode.
I have watched the last scene so many times that my bird knows the word to the song.
the last few minutes of this episode were heavy, right? so tense! I am really excited to see what’s coming up for Santana. also I hope Kurt follows up Santana’s slap with another bitch slap for Finn for outing her.
one thing… Puck’s mohawk… can we talk about it? I can’t focus on anything else when it’s on the screen. it’s long and combed to the side and really getting out of hand.
omg i thought it was just me. you cannot combover a mohawk, it just looks like a hot mess.
ok, i can’t lie, that bothered me too. i mean, i have a mohawk, i know that they can be a pain and unruly when they get long. but i’m also not on TV with stylists and shit. they need to fix that for real, because my hair looks better when i cut it myself.
ok, that last part was a lie, i look a hot mess myself. but whatever.
Ah-ha! Glad I have company in the “that mohawk is freakin’ weird” camp.It’s distracting to me too but maybe that’s a good thing, it keeps me from paying attention to the stuff with Shelby. *shudder*
Yeah, Puck’s new ‘hawk has been bugging me for a while, too.
The Puck/Shelby thing is ridiculous but Idina is so hot I don’t even care. Santana (and Brittana, but mostly just Santana) breaks my heart into a million little pieces. I just want to hug her.
And now I’m imagining what Brittany Pierce would post on her tumblr.
i was so excited for this episode because of the adele mash-up, and i watched that video like a million times beforehand…and then the episode started with that weird puck/penis song and i was so very very sad.
loved the recap though, as always!
Oh and also I love Sugar Motta. She was doing hilarious things in the background in every scene she’s in. She’s totally Santana’s little minion and it’s fabulous.
as does naya!
agreed! i hope they use her more.
I hated Sugar Motta at first, but she’s so funny in the background of like every scene she’s in.
She’s a funnier version of one of Blair Waldorf’s minions.
Oh my god, and when Santana said, “Quick! Get some wet towels to keep Finn wet before we roll him back into the ocean!” and Sugar actually started to go get them? Hilar. I love that bitch.
Oh man, I was sobbing all the way until the end after Santana broke. D: Reading this, I started getting all misty eyed all over again. Oh my god that was tragic. I felt like my heart was breaking, oh god. -_-
So after watching this episode, I read a few different recaps of it, and can I say the comments, and in some case the articles, were pretty upsetting? The general consensus of a lot of people is that Santana “got what she deserved”, which is being forcibly outed – in a school where Kurt was horrendously bullied – by none other than Kurt’s step brother. The two biggest offenders I saw personally were Todd and Lorenzo [dot] com, and After Elton.
That’s right, two sites geared towards gay men offered the most vicious criticisms. In the case of Todd and Lorenzo, the author of the article even came into the comments to defend his stance. It just seems so dirty that people who are queer themselves could be OK with and in favor of what Finn did. Was Santana over the line? Perhaps. But it Finn wanted to have this discussion for her, and this was not a discussion, he should have taken it to a place where Santana wouldn’t be at risk. What he did was unforgivable.
I should note the article on AfterElton was fine, but the comments not so much.
AfterElton has the same Glee recapper as AfterEllen.
santana started the fight in public. when people are angry enough, they explode. if you can’t handle the consequences of that, don’t light the fuse. and Perhaps santana was over the line? seriously she’s a bitch constantly that i can’t even sympathize with
There is no chance Finn is going to get kicked out of his family’s home because he’s a bit chubby. We have NO idea what the repercussions will be for Santana in being outed without her control.
Obviously Santana was mean, but Finn was also a douche, so neither of them are blameless. It takes two to tango, and denying that is pretty shortsighted. If people are to pay for the consequences of their own actions, then all must be held accountable, not just the person you dislike.
Also, Finn won’t get hatecrimed. Not that you will ever read this or even begin to try to understand.
One of my friends had an interesting thought: Santana slept with Finn, right? But like, he was probably among the last guys she slept with, so is it possible that she’s also reacting to that? Like, I know he’s an enormous douche, and what he did to her was absolutely unforgivable and gave me all the feelings, but do you think it’s possible that Santana also kind of resents him for that too, for sharing that special thing with her? Am I being crazy? I feel like I might be.
No that’s probably there too, you know, just stoking up the anger a little more. God I hate Finn. :P
That totally makes sense
Yeah, I think that did have something to do with it. I also think that, to Santana, Finn represents the club that kicked her out and then did not ask her to stay when she left for the Troubletones, etc.
I also think she has in NO WAY forgiven him for calling Britt an idiot a couple episodes ago.
I think this is a good point. I remember thinking that Brittany handled Finn well but was surprised at the time that Santana did not end him on the spot.
yes i 100% agree with this. i think that for santana, finn is a giant symbol of Heteronormativity; he represents a world in which a hot girl feels like she has to have sex with dudes, no matter who douchey or utterly repulsive she may find them, just because she is a girl who is hot. every time santana sees finn she sees compulsory heterosexuality and viscerally feels the injustice of it all and just wants to burst with rage.
*how (not “who”)
absolutely – and Finn’s not particularly good at anything but he just coasts, you know? And is QB and the would-be Gleek leader because of all his combined privileges. If I were Santana I’d want to burst from rage just looking at him too.
I think we’re making Glee appear deeper than it is. Naya may be independently acting like that, but I doubt the writers have any fucking clue about the psychological layers possible with their circumstance.
I tend to agree with this, but I also think the characters/show universe take on a world completely outside of the writers, which is pretty cool. Even if the writers weren’t thinking it, doesn’t mean it’s not there! :)
any nuance on this show is typically the result of the actors so…huh? the writers? :)
I don’t know if he was the last. She took his virginity in season 1 – in early season 2, though, she was obviously still having sex with Puck, because of how she told Brittany in “Duets” that she was just a warm body for her until Puck got out of juvie. She also briefly dated Sam right before her realization about Brittany.
Also, really good point about WHAT WOULD YOUR GAY BROTHER SAY? Because what the FUCK Finn? And that slap was soooo satisfying!
That SLOW MOTION STILL of the slap was so satisfying.
Seriously, that could be my screensaver right now, I’m so pissed at Finn.
Oh yes. So so good.
it’s satisfying to see a girl who acts like a total whore and bitch all the time slap a generally nice guy because she pushed him over the edge and then won’t take responsibility for it? i could sympathize if she was just a bitch. but slapping him just made her evil. PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!!!! she picked a fight! she pushed him! she acts like a bitch all the time. these are the consequences. grow a set and admit that you did this to your own life santana.
All it took was your first sentence to make me think “You must be new here”
For starters, slut-shaming just really isn’t cool.
^^ So not cool at all.
As has been mentioned before, Finn himself called it “trash talking”, used by competitors to get into each other’s heads. Then he sucked at it, got a beatdown in dodgeball, got his panties in a wad and RETALIATED by outing Santana. He was trying to get Santana back for beating him.
yeah I don’t think I’m down with the slut shaming.
I do find it upsetting how many people love that she used physical violence against him. Shouldn’t that be Not Okay by everyone, to everyone?
If you’re going to claim higher moral ground by accusing someone of being a bitch and bullying, then it’s probably not a good idea to call said person a whore.
“Finn: “The whole school already knows. And you know what? They don’t care.”
Oh thanks Finn, it’s always refreshing to get a straight white cisgender male’s perspective on how the lesbian woman of color ought to feel. I’m glad you’ve got it on lockdown.”
After his gay brother was bullied and THREATENED WITH DEATH at this school. Yes, I’m sure you’re right, Finn. Certainly no one will care.
“After his gay brother was bullied and THREATENED WITH DEATH at this school.”
And he still didn’t out the guy who threatened him! What the hell, Finn?
Thank you for reminding me about that. It’s moments like this where I absolutely hate the lack of continuity and character development in the writing of this show.
Blaine looks like Mario with that moustache….
I thought he looked a lot like Freddy Mercury.
That’s an insult to Freddie Mercury! xD
Being around Brittany so much, I’m most surprised that Santana threw “rock” and not “scissors.”
Yeah, I was actually thinking they were going to make another scissoring joke there.
Maybe they’re more into fisting.
Yesterday I met someone who tried to tell me that Finn was justified in outing Santana because she was so horrible to him, and I practically frothed with rage. It may have scared them off, because they quickly changed the subject. :D
That slap was the best tv moment. Ever. Honest to god, I rewound it and watched it several times over. FUCK YOU FINN. FUCK YOU. He’s such a homophobic douche. Whenever he has a fight with a queer person his FIRST REACTION is to use their sexuality against them or as an insult — first Kurt and his faggy lamp, now Santana is a “coward” for being closeted. How fucking dare some privileged straight white guy who has never experienced oppression in his LIFE tell a lesbian that she’s a coward for not coming out (in a shitty, homophobic town no less). ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu i can’t even.
but yes! Loved the recap, it was hilarious and, as usual, better and more entertaining than the actual episode.
Yeah, I totally think that Finn has some real problems with gay people underneath his “accepting” facade.
Finn is totally homophobic in my eyes. But he thinks he gets a free pass cause of having a gay step-brother.
Then he verbally beats down Blaine despite Blaine being nothing but nice to him (and I’m not overly fond of Blaine myself), acts all hyper-hetero when Rory or Patrick or whatever the fuck stereotypically-Irish name they’ve given Damian McGinty’s character asks him to be his friend, and fucking thinks its okay to out someone and then talk back to her when she’s clearly Not Okay.
Word. Seriously, what is wrong with Finn? How can he possibly think that outing someone is okay? I do think that what Santana said to him was extremely cruel, but if he wanted to get back at her, he could have focused on something else (i.e. the boob job, the fact that most people don’t like her). It’s just…I have to agree that Finn has problems with homophobia.
And as pointed out above, he did something similar to this with Quinn’s pregnancy in season 1, which resulted in her parents kicking her out. He really needs to stop lecturing people about being “courageous” about things he will never experience.
i’ll tell you that finn was justified. as a girl from a catholic family that had to come out, i’ll tell you that finn was justified. i came out when i was ready. no one outed me. wanna know y? because i was never such a bitch that someone hated me enough to say it. when ppl get that angry (justifiably) they say awful things. it doesn’t make finn a bad guy. in fact, he’s always been an overall nice guy. while santana and most of the other characters have been assholes. and kurt was being creepy when finn attacked him. besides, everyone is prejudiced against something. at least finn has made some serious efforts to change his
i admire your perseverance on this comment thread
Ok, I’m gonna give you an A for effort. A D+ for the quality of your argument. And an F for the creativity you used picking out your name. Even Jane ‘Mo would have been better. You see what I did there?
Umm. You just defeated your own argument. You chose to come out on your own terms. SANTANA DIDN’T HAVE THAT CHOICE. And no, it’s not because she’s a bitch. Karofsky was a monster to Kurt, but nobody who knew he was gay outed him. Want to know why? Because those people understood the difficulty and the angst keeping that secret and being scared of what would happen if people knew the truth. There is absolutely NO correlation between someone’s behaviour and the justification in having them outed against their will. (Besides politicians)
You’re definitely not being very Christian. And you sound like a complete and utter bitch, and not only that, but a phony who acts all innocent.
Jaysus, Riese. You keep it real, and you’re hilarious.
“and has the personality of a cranky lesbian on the internet.”
WAY TO BITE THE EYES THAT READ, RIESE. I FEEL ALIENATED; IT’S AS IF THAT PHRASE SIMULTANEOUSLY SLUSHIED AND DODGEBALLED MY SOUL. UGH!
Seriously: very nice recap. That ‘How to make Finn “Lesbian” Hudson cry’ list is a beautiful thing.
i want you to know one of the +1s on your comment is from me
I’m not exactly sure why this is playing out like Finn outed Santana. I mean he didn’t know she was gay…he’d just heard rumors/witnessed all the gay subtext. Calling someone gay (especially in the context of trash talk) doesn’t make it an outing just because it’s true, does it? I mean it’s not as though Santana was out to Finn.
In season one, Kurt says something about the elephant in the room and Santana says “your sexuality?”
That was just Santana being mean…I don’t understand why the hallway scene was different.
Finn saying that “everyone already knows” implies that it is a factual statement, so yes, he did out her. There is a supreme difference between saying: “What are you, gay or something?” and “Just get out of the closet already, you’re a coward for hiding in there.”
To me “everybody already knows” sounds more like “this is a widely spread rumor” since the majority of people, including Finn, ~don’t~ know. Also, I don’t really see a difference between “what are you gay” and “come out of the closet already,” although I suppose the coward comment does indicate that Finn is certain she’s gay.
Well, that and he threw it in her face that it was the reason that she’s so mean and miserable and that Brittany may not love her back. That is a LOT of personal detail for a mere “rumour”.
There’s no proof that I’M not married to a donkey.
Does that mean I’M married to a donkey?
OH FUCK I’M MARRIED TO A DONKEY.
Same here. Looks like I need to break out my, “Fuck donkeys, I will never marry one of those asses” t-shirt again.
Um, Sue, can’t you disprove the fact that Burt is married to a donkey by the fact that he’s married to Finn’s mom and polygamy isn’t legal in Ohio?
But then, neither is animal marriage and you know what, I just give up. This is Glee. It doesn’t play by the rules of our universe.
I watched this with my girlfriend, choking back tears. I, like Santana, am not out to my parents either and that scene about not having told her parents yet ripped me up. My girlfriend showed nearly no emotion and then I remembered ‘oh, thats one of our biggest issues, the whole parents thing”. So basically I wanted to cry, she just shook her head and I was just praying they would start singing Adele to change the subject. Then they did and it was great.
As far as Finn goes, hes a doucher not matter how you spin it. Santanas mean, ok. Shes actually quite the bitch, ok. But if anyone would ever do anything similar to that to me (I’m 30 so clearly the venue would be diff), they woulda been punched right then and I would’ve caught an assault charge.
That seems like an extra douchey way to out someone. Not just telling a crowded hallway that you’re gay, but telling the crowded hallway “you’re gay because you’re in love with this girl.” Two personal and confusing and kind of beautiful but miserable secrets being ripped away from you and spread everywhere for the world to see.
I didn’t mind so much when I was outed. But if the girl who did it had also told everyone who I was in love with, I would have curled up into a ball and ugly cried for a week. I can’t even imagine that.
I really wish I hadn’t watched this with my Mum last night because I cried and she thought Santana had it coming and really I’d rather not know when she thinks that sort of thing.
I’m sorry about that! does your mum know?
Oh yeah she does and she’s pretty good with everything really! It’s more of a clueless thing? She said something along the lines of, “Well she shouldn’t have been so mean, I would’ve done the same thing in his shoes.” I don’t think she really thought what she was saying through, hopefully.
Oh the joys of being outed in school.
I mean, I was out to my friends. We talked about it. I wasn’t in-in the closet.
But having people scream “Come out, ugly dyke” in front of our window at night while travelling with school or girls awkwardly hugging each other in a rather sexual way in front of me in gym class…you just can’t ask for better memories from high school. no seriously.
and that wasn’t even dangerous – as in: to my health. to my mental health probably, though.
what the fuck, finn. you. simply. don’t. out. anyone.
Did anyone else have this crazy real feeling that it was Jane Lynch sitting in the office, and not Sue when Santana was called in?
Like I felt the 4th wall smash down for a second and it was one of those “Oh yeah, glee is silly but sometimes does some good irl,” moments.
yes! I felt like it was so heartfelt when she apologized to Santana! Like the most heartfelt thing a heartless character could say!
Is it wrong that the thing that’s annoying me most is how stupid they’re making the Irish guy? Seriously, America, we have dodgeball here, even before the movie. And I don’t think anyone has counted ‘your crops failed’ as an insult since the Famine. It’s like this guy was the inspiration for “Darby O’Gill and the Little people” and only just woke up after an 80 year hypersleep. With a solely green wardrobe.
I also enjoy how they seem to think being Irish means you don’t understand the English language. A++ there Glee writers.
Oh yeah. Well, discrimination against the Irish is alive in a subtle form here still. Goodness I heard so many comments after the whole no redheaded sperm thing about how that was such a good thing because redheads are horrible. Guess where THAT came from. Also um, rugby anyone? We have a way for the way they’re portraying him: plastic paddy. FAITH AND BEGORRA OH TOP OF THE MORNING TING TING A ROO.
(though I still maintain the insult he tossed off is pretty funny)
I’ve come to a point where Santana can do no wrong and that’s a lot considering this episode she was one big tamale of WRONGNESS. I won’t defend her actions and actually I’m not angry with Finn (unpopular opinion), but one has to consider the context. He’s a teenage boy and yes Kurt went through it, but in his head Santana & Kurt are two different people. He might not view her as diffident as he viewed Kurt a year ago and it doesn’t help that she’s mean and last night downright viscous.
He doesn’t know the implications of a public outing and to be honest if you watch the scene Santana wasn’t even ruffled that he outed her in school because as he said everyone in the school knew. Her anger boiled over because of the campaign ad.
And I’m a loser who liked the Hall & Oats performance. It was so incredibly cheesy and fun and when Finn bust out singing my facial expression mimicked Santana’s. Except I laughed. And the Tina, Rachel, and QUINN rocked that performance. Not sure when Quinn learned how to become the lowkey star of a performance, but she did. She’s like first season Santana. It’s on the top of my list because of them. I say the three of them vs. Santana/Mercedes/Britt. Girl off!
‘this episode makes lesbians cry’ is what i have gathered from the comments, as well as my own personal experience.
usually I like kind of getting a feel for next weeks tunes, but I am IN LOVE with next weeks song choices. Mostly because it can bring me back to my obsessed Melissa Etheridge days, my excitement cannot be contained! :)
And my friends all wonder why I have always hated Finn Hudson
after watching this episode i curled up on my roommate’s bed in a ball and went “ohmygooooddddd” a lot. this was easily one of the best glee episodes in my opinion, both in terms of songs (except for the first one) and tension. like i might actually consider watching this twice?
also though, i am deathly afraid of next week’s episode because glee is not very good at having two good episodes in a row, they’ll probably ruin everything.
So… I’m pretty sure your (and mine and other people) hopes about no Puck/Shelby drama based off the songs isn’t going to happen.
Spoilers for who is singing what:
Constant Craving is supposed to be sung by Santana and Shelby (and there’s like a 15 second preview somewhere on youtube if you want to hear it).
I’m the Only One is sung by Puck.
Ugh. I just… don’t understand. >_>
Love this recap! Regarding Santana, does anyone remember when she used to make fun of Kurt for his sexuality and threatened to out Karofsky if he didn’t go along with her plan to be prom queen? Her behavior wasn’t much better than Finn’s and she created bad karma for herself. Grant it he is stupid and clueless but he was just reacting to her constant bullying of him and his sidekick. He didn’t know how else to get to her. Plus teenagers are notorius for their bad judgement! I miss likeable Finn from the first season.
Whoa, I completely forgot about her blackmailing Karofsky. SEE WHAT LACK OF CONTINUITY DOES, RYAN FUCKING MURPHY.
Yes I agree with this for the most part. I think some of my reluctance to slam Finn so hard over this is because I have a very hard time saying one kind of bullying is worse than the other. And yes, I do feel like there’s a lot of Finn bashing going on in here because he is male. Two wrongs, and all. So it’s not the same for him to get called fat versus Santana to be outed. Fine. Even if we go with that and all agree on it, it doesn’t justify only Finn getting the asshole label and bullying is never ever ever EVER okay. And she sure hasn’t played fair with other people’s sexuality.
Am I the only person thinking… Since when is Santana gay? I haven’t watched the series front to back but I’ve seen a fair bit of it and all of season 3 so far. Would it be too complex for her to come out as a bisexual character? Maybe Brittany will do that. But I don’t know if the writers would use a character as “simple” as dear Brittany to talk about a subject as complex as bisexuality. I know it’s a lot to ask, as most of Glee’s viewers are not experts on sexual politics and many of the minority characters (Artie, Mercedes) have been pretty one-dimensional thus far, but I smell bisexual erasure and it makes me sad panda.
santana has been officially gay for a while! she came out to brittany and confessed her love for her so..there’s that. also, there is a recap somewhere here discussing this topic. too lazy to search for it.
found it! thank you all for your patience. now i must watch all the episodes.
Santana’s been out as gay (to the show’s audience) for a while now. They announced her sexuality in May this year and have showed her coming out process this season and last season. I certainly don’t think her story is a case of bisexual erasure just as I didn’t think Jenny’s story was a case of bisexual erasure.
Well, I think Brittany is considered bisexual (There was that list of queer TV characters, and Britt is listed as being bi), but yeah, Santana was officially declared a lesbian in May by the writers and the actors.
I’m actually a bit glad that they’ve made Santana a lesbian because it’s interesting to see the whole “I slept with a million guys!” turn into “Omigod, I’m gay” storyline which I don’t think really occurs often. AS LONG AS SHE NEVER SLEEPS WITH A GUY AGAIN, this works.
One of the commenters noted that they read Santana’s special brand of hatred toward Finn as a reflection of her disgust that she felt obligated to sleep with him due to societal pressures. Which may be reading too close, but I feel it. I think the “I slept with a million guys!… Omigod, I’m gay” happens to young lesbians pretty often, but never gets addressed much in media. So I’m jazzed, to say the least.
Right, that’s what I meant – it’s a common occurrence, but I can’t remember any other show depicting a lesbian in that manner from being SUPER BOY CRAZY (in bed) to realizing that it was all an act.
If only this storyline was being handled by more consistent writers; it has so much potential to be amazing, and I hope that Naya gets an Emmy nod for this season.
Santana has been officially a lesbian since March, but it’s always felt a bit false to me – not so much because of all the sex she was having, but more because of the jealous fights she’d pick with every single girl who tried to date Puck instead of her. There was a whole musical number built around this in season 1, in the episode where Mercedes dated Puck. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I just can’t see how one would get that jealous and possessive over a beard.
I think that like Willow before her, the writers clearly changed her mind halfway through and it shows. I appreciate the fact that we have a lesbian character and her characterization from the latter half of season 2 on has been fairly consistent, but it’s hard to explain away what came before, for me.
Also as a bi person, I’m worried that with Brittany being the bi character, they can easily explain away either her “straight side” or her “gay side” as her just not understanding herself because of her lack of intelligence. The show already demonstrated cluelessness w/r/t bisexuality in the “Blame it on the Alcohol” episode. And now we have Finn telling Santana that Brittany might not love her back. I’m worried that despite her being listed as bi on the GLAAD report, they’re going to find some way to get her back with Artie and decide she’s straight in the process. I just really have trouble trusting Glee on bisexuality.
Re: Santana’s jealousy over Puck may not have anything to do with romantic attachment. Puck is her territory, and as a fierce bitch nobody messes with her shit. I think that possessiveness is more plausible than Santana genuinely liking Puck. Plus, if she isn’t aware of her attraction to girls, this is how she’s supposed to act about a guy she’s sleeping with. Psychology is interesting when you’re acting out on social expectations rather than your genuine drive…
Did anyone else notice Santana’s laugh after Finn called her an ass-less JLo? Or am I the only one that thought that was way cute?
Glee has never made me cry before.
Great recap as always. I read many recaps and your is the funniest, thus my fav :)
This ep was weird and wonky as glee will be. But damn if they didn’t nail someone being outed against their will. Love that it was fucking Finn who is such an asshole yet too stupid to realize it.
Between feeding a vegan meat and outing a lesbian who’s family is probs homophobic my god Finn is a nasty asshole.
I thought he didn’t know she was still vegan or something?
I LOVE this episode TOO much and it has really hit me deep inside my soul and I must admit I had a little cry(for like an hour).
When I was 16, my girlfriend back then went behind my back and told my parents I was gay because I told her that I was unsure of my sexuality, she thought it was about my parents and by telling them it would make me sure. WRONG. I dumped my girlfriend, told my parents that it was some bitchy girl trying to ruin my life and had a boyfriend for 2 years before I properly came out. I hope Finn gets some payback. NEVER OUT SOMEONE, IT’S BRUTAL AND YOU WILL GET CLAMIDYA AND DIE.
I really like that this episode focused on Santana’s sexuality.. it’s about time! but.. at the same time I wish there were better writers to handle this situation. This storyline has so much potential but glee and its lack of continuity sighh
as some earlier commenter mentioned,
remember when santana threatened to out Karofsky unless he went to prom with her? Now a lot of people will just stick her being outted to karma or whatever. Gleeeee why you don’t think of these things??
UGHHHHH FINN YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I don’t get how Finn is supposed to be this great, moral guy; all he does is be self-righteous until even HE can’t stand it anymore and then he spouts some homophobic bullshit (see: Kurt, season 1). Oh and make the “someone replaced my brain with a rock” face.
“I don’t get how Finn is supposed to be this great, moral guy; all he does is be self-righteous until even HE can’t stand it anymore and then he spouts some…bullshit…Oh and make the ‘someone replaced my brain with a rock’ face.”
So basically he’s a Will in-training?
Finn, you ignorant dumbass.
About Santana threatening to out Dave – I’m pretty sure she told him that she was gay as well. Girl practically gave him something to make use of in case she actually went through her threat (which I honestly think she wouldn’t have done even if she hadn’t mentioned her sexuality. She’s a lot more clever than that.)
I also can’t wait for Abuela Lopez’s appearance. I hope she’s as tough as Santana made her out to be in her Lima Heights childhood story.
And am I the only one who was amused by Sugar? I know she wasn’t featured much, but I found her little antics in the background incredibly amusing. I snorted when she was actually gonna fetch wet towels for Santana after she made the remark about Finn’s body. She’s like a little puppy around her. So fucking cute, lol.
“About Santana threatening to out Dave – I’m pretty sure she told him that she was gay as well. Girl practically gave him something to make use of in case she actually went through her threat (which I honestly think she wouldn’t have done even if she hadn’t mentioned her sexuality. She’s a lot more clever than that.)”
Ooooh, good point… She was just as vulnerable as Karofsky with that.
I am loving Sugar too. I think she’s afraid of/worships Santana at this point. Also wondering when we might see her involved in someone’s storyline.
That song list is very gay.
So. many. feelings.
I read so many comments on different websites before fully formulating my opinion. Finally settled on: Finn sucks.
Santana can be bitchy and hateful for sure, and the things she said to Finn were horrible, particularly given his breakdown over his future/self-perceived lack of talent. Do we know that she was aware of those insecurities coming to a head last week? Not that I know of.
From what I’ve heard, Finn also participated in “bullying” during the first season. If this is the case, I’d take that into account too, particularly how he reacted towards Kurt.
During their first hallway interaction, Finn identifies Santana’s statements as being “trash talk” and assures Rory not to take them seriously or let them affect him. When she touched a nerve during their second hallway interaction, he must have forgotten that.
Some comments I’ve read have noted that Santana has turned and walked well down the hall before Finn turns and outs her. She is no longer being directly confrontational. The issue here is not that he called Santana out – if she and Finn were in a private conversation and he called her on being in the closet, I doubt we’d see the same outcry. The issue is rather that he does it loudly, in a public location, which results in someone overhearing it and spreading the word beyond the school. So Finn didn’t just attack her weak spot. He broadcast it to anyone in the surrounding area. He showed no remorse at having done so, despite the fact that he and Kurt are now step-brothers and he observed the horrible situation Kurt faced at McKinley after his outing. As several others have noted, his lack of remorse, to me, is the most damning thing. If he got carried away in the heat of the moment and put that information about Santana out there, I think people would still be angry at his thoughtlessness. But some would be more inclined to forgive him because it wasn’t necessarily malicious. His lack of remorse, however, makes it seem malicious – that he was intentionally trying to cut her down to the quick. Even if he thought “everyone knows” (which seems to be a flawed statement, because some members of the Glee club didn’t catch on even after “Landslide”), he made public something about her that he knew was very personal and potentially hurtful. Rather intentionally or unintentionally, Glee has hit upon the issue of privilege in this particular case. If Finn is thoughtless rather than malicious, it comes down to his white heterosexual cisgendered self not having to ever think about the repercussions of outing someone (although I think most people would point out he did have to think about it in regards to Kurt).
Also, a common argument is that Santana deserved it because she threatened to out Karofsky. 1) They were not at McKinley when she spoke to him, 2) Santana outed HERSELF to him after getting his attention by pointing out what she had realized, 3) Even after not winning prom queen and the other events of last year, Santana did not out Karofsky.
Sorry so long.
I will point out that at least Quinn knows. “Sorry Santana, I’m just not in to that.”
I don’t think either of them deserves bullying. I guess that’s my short answer. The outing thing aside Santana shouldn’t be allowed to just be fucking awful to everyone she encounters with no consequences. That bothers me too because it seems like the Glee writers largely went with the incredibly harmful bullies are just hurting inside! trope and that makes me want to puke.
All. Of. This. Win.
Irish Spring: “You’re skinny like all the crops failed on your family’s farm.”
Omg I am dead. AMAZING.
I am going to preface this with I HAVE BIG FEELINGS ABOUT BULLYING. So go in to my comment knowing that.
Santana and Brit isn’t exactly a secret is it? I mean, I admit I am not a huge follower of this show but from the songs and so on I have seen, those girls are pretty much in to each other. Not to mention Santana had her own coming out speech to Brit in that same hallway, with other people around.
I don’t think she gets to just say whatever horrible mean shit she can about Finn and then immediately Finn is an ass for calling her out on her own shit in return. She’s being an outright bully here but I hardly ever see anyone react to her like she’s being exactly as bad as any of the other bully characters on the show. That tosses my cookies let me tell you. It kind of hurts me that there’s all these passes being made for Santana’s truly awful digs and none for what Finn said. It can be argued, and well, I’m sure, that her comments and his are not equivalent, but nor does his comment justify hers.
It’s kind of awful that the writers keep putting Finn in these positions and–with a big caveat because I haven’t seen this entire episode–what I find worrisome is that the message in this scene seems to be that it’s totally okay to hurt men, and hurt them, and insult and omg and then when they say anything in return OMG FUCK THEM oppression and outing and patriarchy. It’s just kind of a clusterfuck all around and I don’t know if I am super cool with how the writers are handling it from any direction.
(also he’s kind of right, whether he’s right for saying it in public aside)
I totally agree with you that Santana is not justified in saying whatever she wants and getting away for it. I forget which episode it was, but there is an earlier one where some members of the Glee club give it right back to her and she runs out crying. Or at prom, when she tells Brittany “Just because I hate everyone doesn’t mean they have to hate me back!” I don’t feel sorry for her in those situations and do feel like she deserves what she gets then. She dishes it out and she has to take it. So we know that Santana has weak points such as getting passed over for Rachel, her boob job, etc. If Finn called her out on ANY of those I would feel he was perfectly justified in doing so and would not feel sorry for Santana at all.
But that’s not what he did. Instead he took a personal decision out of her hands (and some argue, put her in direct physical danger at McKinley) in a way that made it possible for someone to use that information in a very public way.
I don’t think anyone disagrees about the ultimate truth of Finn’s statements, and as I noted before, if he’d put them out there in private this would be a completely different story. But he didn’t.
People are not shouting oppression because Finn is a white able-bodied cisgender heterosexual male-bodied person, they are calling it because his privilege is such that he had no problem with taking an intensely personal decision out of the hands of a lesbian female of color. He thought it was OK for him to out her in a public area because his pride (and as some have argued, his masculinity) was challenged. As was demonstrated several weeks ago when he apologized to Brittany, he has been willing to step up when he recognizes the problematic nature of his actions – but in this case he apparently saw nothing problematic about them. And that goes to the heart of privilege.
Various Glee club members have made remarks about the two of them – but not all of them, and no one outside the club has been shown to be aware of their relationship. Not to mention that their initial identification within the show was “two hot cheerleaders who make out in front of boys for attention but are still heterosexual” – which places any affectionate behavior that might have been noted by others into an “acceptable” category.
I can’t really expect the Glee writers to be able to create quality characters when they haven’t even looked at a map of Ohio yet. There is no Lima Heights. And Dalton Academy is supposed to be in Westerville, which is 2 hours from Lima. Kurt couldn’t live in Lima and go to high school in Westerville.
…but I really liked that episode anyway. Especially the dodgeball.
Am I the only one that’s ridiculously excited to hear “Jolene” next week??
Riese, I love you. The minute I saw Kurt’s green camo-esque outfit this week, I jumped on AS to see what you had to say about it…
So I used to have this friend, she was my best friend of 7 years actually. If anyone were to look at my profile on here, you’d see I have the date I officially was out to everyone I know. 24th April, this year. Glee is an important program to me. Yes, it’s heavily flawed in terms of character development and continuity – but it’s my show.
Back to my friend. We had a meltdown. We’re not friends anymore. She’s a year older than me (she’s 18, I’m 17) and so is at university, so we live in different cities and do not speak anymore.
Anyways. She posted a load of passive-aggressive status updates about me on Facebook periodically through our break-up, and in one of them she outed me as a lesbian. I told her before I told my parents, like a lot of people do. She outed me to everybody, friends I hadn’t told yet. This was a full week before I came out to my parents.
The outing was pain I had never felt before. This was someone I was meant to trust, and she had taken the deepest secret I had and aired it to our world in a fit of pique.
What I’m trying to say here is that I understand where Finn came from. When we are angry, we are flawed, even more so than usual. We take every form of ammunition we have and we use it.
However, it is not okay. No matter how badly someone behaves. No matter what privilege anyone has. In my case, this was a straight WOC outing a white lesbian. Pretty much the opposite of the Finntana situation. Finn was entirely wrong – just as outing me was on a different level to her previously insulting superficial features of mine, outing Santana was on a different level to her calling him fat.
I sincerely hope that they play this well. I hope Kurt talks to Finn about what he did, I hope Rachel does too; seeing as she has two gay dads, I think this is relevant to her interests. But for me, watching a character my age going through basically what I did, they played it very well. All the awards to Naya Rivera. Needless to say, I was bawling; it was too close to home, and too recent.
Also, k.d lang next week! Yay! Oh and I hope they do I Kissed A Girl the way they inverted I Wanna Hold Your Hand’s tone. If I see those goddamn Nude Erections dancing around to the normal version in a show of ‘solidarity’, I will headbutt my television.
I happy for Finn for stop Santana bullys
I hate Santana she a bich and not beacuse she is a lesbian shes justifid for begin a bich.
I promised myself I would not comment on this episode but I have read so many comments and realize that so many people do not understand the ramifications of outing a gay person who is not ready. As dramatic as it might sound I believe that being gay is the only time we question our parents unconditional love for us, which is why it takes some of us time before we decide to come out, do you know that you can be a thief, murderer or any type of criminal and your parents will still love you even go so far as to claim your innocence but being gay, sometimes your family turns on you quicker than a stranger. Santana is not a bitch she uses her bitchiness as a cover for her insecurities and her fears, her fears are valid none of us never know how our families and friends will respond when we come out and some of us stay in the closet until we suffocate.There is a difference between outing someone and simply insulting them, what Finn did was worse, and he did announce you might have only seen 3 kids but shouting it at her in the hallway at school between classes definitely anyone any where near those hall ways would have heard what he said.
I am sure your comment is not intended this way but it touched a nerve that often gets twinged for me in online discussions, I think because there’s a certain degree of anonymity always in place.
It seems, from the wording of what you said, that you’re assuming that some of us that might feel differently than you, or more on the fence than you, are not gay/queer. I myself am queer and trans and don’t appreciate the implication that I can’t be those things and have an opinion that isn’t extremely confident and black and white about something. I’m often on the fence in discussions around here because you know what? We’re not a monolith and oftentimes these discussions bring up so many feelings and questions for me that I am not one hundred percent comfortable just coming down on a side or loudly stating a really sure opinion.
We all had different coming out experiences and I bet we all have our own take on them.
Anyway this comment isn’t meant to be in an aggressive tone so please don’t read it that way, but yeah. I can be queer AND disagree or question the majority gay opinion, or what have you.
“do you know that you can be a thief, murderer or any type of criminal and your parents will still love you even go so far as to claim your innocence”
I don’t think is true with everyone.
Me, too, both because it’s a great choice and I also wonder who is going to sing it. Is Kurt going to sing it to Sebastian? That just seems like the most likely “Jolene” situation out of the various romantic subplots we have going on right now.
This was supposed to be a reply
What I learned this episode
Everyone in and related to high school is a bitch, Finn (the fuck you out Santana?!), Santana (She compared Finn to a manatee and I winced),Sue Sylvester (whose just running around being crazy now. Also its half her fault Santana’s outed to the world), everyone.
No wonder I hated it.
the next episode’s song list is missing some ani difranco.
This episode made me so angry. Both because of Santana being outed, but also because people seem to think it was okay. Being outed before you’re ready is a terrible, terrible thing; something NO ONE should have to go through, no matter how awful they are.
I also hate the fact they’re having Santana sing “I Kissed A Girl” next episode, but that may just be me.