Q:
About a year ago I made a pretty big mistake. I told one of my queer best friends that I have feelings for her. This is a problem for several reasons. 1. She is happily married. 2. I kind of framed it like I thought/knew she had feelings for me too. 3. The friend I confessed my feelings to is kind of the “leader” or “most popular” person in my queer friend group.
She shut me down immediately. She was honestly pretty pissed. She told me that we were not more than friends and that she’d never given me any hints that we were more than friends. She also told me she felt like what I’d done was disrespectful to her wife and to their relationship. Tho I didn’t mean for it to be that way. I guess I thought even if she didn’t reciprocate my feelings she would be flattered. I asked her if we could still be friends and she said she felt unsure about it because her relationship with her wife is the most important thing to her and she felt like if I didn’t respect that we didn’t really have much to build a friendship on. She also said she felt like I was gaslighting her because the way I confessed my feelings was by saying “We’re obviously more than friends.”
With distance, I can see that she is mostly right. I let my imagination and desire carry me away. She’s one of those people who can shine her light on you and make you feel like the most important person in the world. She does that for all her friends tho. It wasn’t just me. She was just being magnetic herself. I also can see that I wanted someone to be as devoted to me as she is to her wife.
Now I have lost her and I have mostly lost my queer friend group. I don’t know if she told them exactly what happened but they started leaving me out of things. They stopped responding to my requests to plan events or hang. For a while, they invited me to hang but she and her wife just wouldn’t come to those things. I guess maybe they decided they’d rather have her there than me. I don’t know.
Is there any way I can fix this? Should I apologize again to my friend? Should I apologize directly to her wife? Should I bring it up to my friend group in a text or something like that? With or without her? I know I made a mistake but it is a pretty common one in queer friend groups isn’t it? I feel like labeling it “gaslighting” is an aggressive way to describe what was a pretty normal misunderstanding on my part. And should I have lost my friends because of it too? I know they’ve made similar mistakes! I guess I feel both guilty and also a little bit angry. Their response feels punitive beyond my actions like the “punishment” is much worse than the “crime.” However, I also miss her and them a lot. I only have straight friends now and it’s not the same.
A:
Hiya Reader,
As always, I am going to break it down because that is how my mind works and I think it is also helpful when giving advice, and if you’re anything like me you’ll come back to read it over and over. Also, I am working under the assumption that the person you approached is monogamous ‘cos that is how it reads. I got a feeling we’re gonna have folks chatting about this one, so always be sure to listen to your heart and take my (and everyone else’s) advice with a lovely grain of flakey salt.
Ready? O-K!
If I found myself in this position, I would really stop to question myself and think about why I felt the need to do this. I know you may say you were just confessing feelings you needed to get out, or that you felt she also wanted you but, was it truly something that needed to be said? I am not saying that you shouldn’t ever express your feelings, but perhaps in certain situations, it’s worth it to have a quick talk with yourself about if expressing those feelings is worth it given what could happen as a result of doing so.
On Approaching People In Relationships…
This is not something that only you are doing, it happens a lot in our YNH inbox and I am again both wondering why and asking everyone to stop doing it. So many folks do this and 8/10 times when folks write in and start your letters off with the fact that you did this it does not work out well. Folks HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS. There are far too many people in the world that are single who would adore you, and there is no need to be approaching folks who are involved.
Now in your particular case, you confessed your feelings to someone who is part of what sounds like your chosen family. You knew the whole time that she was married (and monogamous it seems) and happy. So TO ME, this was wrong to do from the start.
Is this something you do often or was it a one-off thing with this particular person? If it’s the former I would def take a step back and try to figure out why, either with a friend, a therapist, or just with your own thoughts and a notebook. If it’s the latter, I would just take it as a lesson to not do it again in the future. The way you are feeling right now is a great lesson to remember — it’s not worth the hurt you caused yourself and others.
This sounds corny but put yourself in those shoes you wanna wear so much. If someone you considered a friend approached your wife with this would you want to immediately keep hanging out around them? Or would you need breathing room to figure out what your new comfort level would be, and perhaps to even see if you want to be around that person at all.
On How the Confession Went Down…
I love confidence. It’s great to have like, great. But you trying to pull this whole “I know you’re into me too” to her is wild. Would this have come off sexy if you were both single/non-monog? Yeah, it can be hot. But that was not the case.
This person, by your description, sounds like a ray of light. Folks dig her and she seems to be the type that has a sorta magnetic pull and that’s not a flaw. Just ‘cos she makes folks feel comfortable around her doesn’t mean that she’s tryna fuck on all of them. You’re pushing that onto her instead of just existing as a dope person in her orbit. You should maybe look at how you are framing your friendships. Speaking from experience, It can be MAD hurtful when you are being genuine about having JUST a friendship with someone, it goes super well, and then they cross the line and get unwanted/unasked for flirtations. It’s uncomfortable and not really dope.
On The Friendship Group…
I’m also curious about the framing of other things you describe in your letter. Like, is she the leader… or is she just the one in the group chat who is willing to set up the hangs? ‘Cos we all know if one person doesn’t do it then you’ll never see each other. Is she the most popular or is she just the one with the best house for kicking it? ‘Cos we all know hanging out at the house with the biggest living room makes more sense. I’m struggling to understand why her leadership or popularity would impact this situation, too. It seems like maybe you’re implying that your friends have sided with her because of her status in the group, but I have to be honest, from the limited information you’ve shared with us, that’s not my read.
You did something a tad selfish that made her uncomfortable. I don’t know if she told everyone but she certainly told her wife. They both have every reason to not come to group hangs if you are there.
You said they all kept inviting you for a while but then stopped, it’s probably because it was weird and also maybe ‘cos the energy she (and her wife) bring was missing. Those two things probably made it so they had to make a decision and it landed on you not being part of the group at the moment.
I don’t think they cut you off ‘cos they are falling in line behind her or anything. I think it’s valid if they aren’t currently hanging out with you, mainly because they tried to first. And in this situation, if the vibes are messed up when hanging out ‘cos of something you did, you oughta be the one who fixes it or ultimately leaves the group.
I also wouldn’t bring this situation up to your friends. ‘Cos like what if they actually don’t know, then you risk embarrassing her further and making the situation ever weirder/worse.
On This Being Common In Queer Girl Friend Groups…
You asked if this is a common mistake amongst queer girl friend groups. No, it is not. I do not think it’s just common amongst dykes for us to try and fuck friends in our group who are in happy monogamous relationships. Does it happen? Sure, but is it common for queer girls in friend groups to approach someone who is in a monogamous relationship and assume they want them too? Nah — I don’t think so.
I really wish lesbians would stop making it seem like so much disrespectful shit is okay with dykes by adding on sayings like “…but we’re lesbians and you know how we are” cos — WHO IS WE?!
This is not TV. This is real life.
STOP USING BEING A DYKE AS AN EXCUSE TO BE A TOXIC PERSON OR TO DO WEIRD TOXIC SHIT.
A lot of things folks keep saying is common are things that I think if people who were straight did them, you would say they were either an unkind person or they were doing an unkind thing. AND YOU WOULD BE CORRECT. Just because you are part of a marginalized group does not mean that you can’t do harm.
What can/should you do?
I know you’re angry but you might just have to take this L and learn the lesson.
I agree that gaslighting may not have been the correct term, but I don’t agree it was as simple as a misunderstanding. It could be small to you but that doesn’t mean it was to her and learning that can also be difficult.
You can be mad, you should be. You lost some homies, got embarrassed, got turned down, maybe lost your friends and a bit of dignity, and now are stuck hanging with straight people for the time being. Shit, I’d be mad too.
But I don’t think it’s fair to say the “punishment” doesn’t fit the crime.
You don’t get to decide that. You were the person in the wrong here. You’re minimizing her feelings and her response and you’re doing that because you’re mad and sad, but it’s unfair. Would it be wrong of her to like go on some doxxing spree, badmouth you to everyone, and all that kinda stuff, hell yeah but she didn’t do that. She simply told you you disrespected her (spoke her mind) and stopped hanging out with you (did what was comfortable for her in response to your hurtful action). Your close friend group — and her wife — found out about what happened (probably) and didn’t like it either so made the same decision.
This isn’t a punishment. This is a consequence of your action. You broke a boundary that, in my opinion, she did not need to tell you existed. You were friends, at the top of your letter you said you knew that she was happily married. I don’t believe that she needed to start your friendship by actively saying “Don’t approach me ‘cos I am in a relationship and happy!” — that’s a boundary that I believe as an adult, you should be aware of without it needing to be stated.
You already apologized to her but if you want to do it again, go ahead — but do so without expectations and only if/when you’re ACTUALLY sorry. Don’t do it ‘cos you’re sad, don’t do it ‘cos you miss the homies, don’t do it ‘cos you’re embarrassed. Do it because you think what you actually did was wrong. If you don’t think what you did was wrong or “all that bad” — don’t apologize. You would be INCORRECT but don’t deliver a phony apology. Stand firm in how you feel.
If you are going to apologize again, maybe send her a text or better yet drop a letter and then let it be. It would be in her court from that point on. If you don’t hear back you gotta let it go and move through it as best as you can.
I also would NOT cross the boundary of reaching out to her wife. If anything, write an apology to her within the letter/text you send and ask her to pass it on to her wife.
This can be a teaching moment (sorry to get all after-school special) and perhaps if you do officially lose this group, you can be sure to not do this with another in the future. You did it, it’s done — so don’t beat yourself up about it ‘cos that isn’t helping anyone especially not you. Give yourself a bit of grace while also understanding that what you did hurt someone. Hold space for it all.
I hope things shake out and y’all can move through this and you don’t forever lose what sounds like a chosen family. Please don’t let TV or any form of media coax you into thinking that dykes and lesbians have to have drama-filled friend groups that fuck each other. You can just be homies who love, care, and are there for each other. I promise you — it’s just as fun.
Happy healing babes and keep us updated,
Shelli Nicole
You can chime in with your advice in the comments and submit your own questions any time.
Lots of good stuff here. The distinction between “this is a common reason people write into our queer advice column” and “that doesn’t mean this is a typical thing that queer people do” is so important!!!
I agree with the advices and the analysis.
This isn’t just a simple misunderstanding. A very good (new) friend of mine and I had a misunderstanding a little while ago for instance: she thought I was into her and told me that she didn’t see me this way but deeply valued our friendship. Cool. Expect I wasn’t flirting with her at all so I cleared the misunderstanding right away and we’re good. Besides, both of us are single and that makes a huge difference.
Falling for someone who isn’t available does happen, but is it wise to let them know? I’m not sure at all, let’s face it. Because chances are it’s going to cause a lot of damage on both sides. Eventually talk about your feelings to a third party like a friend you can trust because it’s always good to talk to someone… but not to the person who is in a monogamous marriage or relationship.
Also, yeah. Life isn’t The L Word. It’s really neither common nor normal among queer groups in real life. I’m 40 and I’ve never experienced nor heard about this before around me.
So I hope the person who wrote this letter will manage to learn and grow from this experience.
“Life isn’t the L Word.” Fact!
Thanks. It’s the main issue I have with The L Word. I’m always afraid that people who haven’t much experience in the queer community, either because they’ve just come to terms with their queerness or because of whatever other reason, take the show for granted/as a reference to what queer life is because… well, because it’s The L Word and it has had its importance in queer representation etc… when the truth is that the show is anything but realistic on most of occasions.
The French Canadian show Feminin/Feminin is somewhat more realistic for instance. And yet… it remains a tv show and it’s scripted. Life isn’t.
One reason I was more than hesitant to come out to myself (long before even coming out to anyone else) was that I perceived lesbians as “everyone having sex with everyone, cheating, toxic community.” The L-Word was my only reference point to lesbian life except a book from the library here or there and maybe one or two older movies that seemed to confirm this notion. And in the L-Word, everyone cheats and is so mean and horrible to one another. I have never been cheated on, nor was it something I have witnessed in my friendships or my family of origin, but a part of me is still afraid of it because in the L-Word, cheating and betrayal was presented as the norm. My fear is not rooted in reality, and I know that; something like my partner of many years would leave me for a person they had a crush on as a young person and would like to explore that – that could have been a storyline from the L-Word. While I don’t want to exaggerate, I feel like the L-Word scarred me in that way…?
In any case, I am very happy that I found other ways to get access to queer life and to find out that in my relationships and community, people don’t behave like in the L-Word.
I find your post and your own experience to be very interesting. I don’t know if lesbians/queers talk a lot online about the negative impact that The L Word may have had but it is something that should be discussed quite often, I guess… because as much as the show is important, it also comes with problematic consequences, and the more we talk about them, the more queer people who don’t have much queer references will understand that they need to watch it with quite a bit of a distance.
Oooowweee this hits me in a soft spot. Hello from the other side of this situation. I’d been clear with my then-partner from the start about wanting monogamy and she was totally on board… until about a year ago when one of her friends approached her with a crush. That kicked off MONTHS of pressure for polyamory and trying to get me to be friends with this person, in spite of my increasing distress. It was a fucking nightmare and even now it feels completely unbearable for days at at time. Sure, maybe this was coming anyway, but it would have been a LOT less traumatic if we’d had time to consider nonmomogamy before someone else was involved.
NGL, some of the writing about monogamy on this site really gets me down. Just because my limit is one relationship at a time doesn’t mean I’m heteronormative or a shill for the patriarchy, and I’ve struggled a lot with those messages.
It’s SUCH A RELIEF to see that there are people out there who stand up for their relationships in situations like these, and to see that validated here.
Everything you’ve said in this comment! While I think it’s great that people can find different relationship structures that work for them, I get really weary of the ragging on monogamy that happens so often in the queer community. The common equation of monogamy with heteronormativity is just so weird and feels more like lashing out than actual constructive criticism. There’s nothing wrong with knowing your relationship boundaries and sticking to them, and pressuring people otherwise is just crappy. I refuse to be shamed because I know what works best for me to direct my relationship energy.
I totally agree with you. I understand saying that non-monogamy is valid, because it is and it is time for people to stop criticizing it the way it has been criticized for so long, but we shouldn’t criticize monogamy in return. Both are valid. I don’t know why some people always feel the urge to drag down one given notion to glorify another one when both are actually fine. Being monogamous and being polyamorous are both ok and valid. And there isn’t one better than the other. We aren’t all made for both, and that doesn’t mean we are problematic nor have any specific issue.
Oof. I have to agree that it does sometimes feel like there is some “dragging”of monogamy that happens. However, I do try to remember that poly folks catch a lot of shade and judgement and that sometimes there’s a need to counter that in a safe place. Sometimes it stings, or feels unwarranted, and I just try to be understanding.
I do hope, though, that the baby queers out there are getting enough positive examples and support from both sides so that they can navigate the decision for themselves and not feel pressured or judged either way. Monogamy is a valid and empowering option for a lot of people, for reasons that have nothing to do with the patriarchy, and I want young queers to know that.
That said, I don’t feel like this is the first “defense of monogamy” that I’ve seen on AS. I can remember a first person narrative a while back about a young queer woman of color who was struggling with being sidelined in the poly world, and she found joy and validation in a monogamous relationship with another QTPOC. Also, I feel like the way Kayla and Heather, for instance, casually (or not so casually, dykes on dates!) mention their partnerships is also validation. (Please forgive if I am misinterpreting your relationships!!! I of course don’t have all the info and am just going off of my observations.) Also, I think there have been other advice responses about respecting monogamous relationship boundaries before too.
I’ve been, I guess, the “wife” in this situation and thus can testify first hand that it feels really shitty to know that someone you consider to be a friend is basically attempting to steal your partner. (i’m assuming the op is also friends with the wife since they’re all in the same group of friends, even if they’re not as close as they are to the friend.) Cuz what’s the endgame of the feelings confession, right… that the op was hoping she’d feel the same way and … ? Have an affair? Leave her wife for them?
That said, I don’t think that this situation has to impact the op’s friendships with other people in the group… but, like shelli said, it’s not a punishment that this couple doesn’t want to hang out with them anymore, it’s the consequences of their actions. and that could impact the feasibility of group hangs.
IDK. If the friends are icing them out as well, it’s probably an indication that they’re not trying to invite LW’s problems into their own relationships.
This is horrible advice. Maybe if that expression is unwelcome, then that can be expressed and a boundary can be henceforth set; but no, the consequences of expressing how you feel shouldn’t be exile. What if it was the friend who had said “I can’t be friends with you because MY feelings for you threaten my marriage, bye!” Now, isn’t that protecting their precious marriage, above all? No, it’d be a huge overreaction to something that happens all the time, and a sign that the marriage probably won’t last. The whole friendship group just shutting them out is disproportionate and, let us be honest, is done out of awkwardness and cowardice if not bitchiness. We should not be condoning this as queer people. Support and solidarity first, the sanctity of marriage second. Lose all your friends and have to be friends with straight people cos your friend’s marriage is THIS fragile? No way.
Oops sorry didn’t mean to reply to you, meant to put a comment at the bottom
without responding to the whole situation, I wonder if the friends aren’t hanging out with them as much anymore because this incident was like, the cherry on top of a series of not-great behavior? ofc I have no way of knowing for sure, but just as a hypothesis. I feel like the intensity of the friend response is a lot if this is a one-off.
the lack of self-awareness here is kind of a lot, (opening with, “i know we’re more than friends,” and ending the letter here with “this was a pretty normal misunderstanding, right? not that big of a deal?”), but I could be being too harsh. just for me, an honest mistake wouldn’t stop me from hanging out with someone, but if this was the next incident in a line of pretty selfish choices, it might be the thing that leads me to avoid someone.
Shelli, thank you for the clear and insightful response to the LW!
I think the key distinction here is between condition and action. Sometimes, (through queer dynamics/awakenings, or just emotional proximity) we can fall for our friends. I’ve been there! But there is a BIG difference between having feelings for someone, and approaching them while they’re in a committed relationship and expecting they’ll want you too.
As others have said, real life is not The L Word. Put simply, this type of situation is not because lesbians, it’s because TV! IRL, that kind of drama is both less common and comes with more complex consequences.
The last thing I’ll say is that starting over with a new friend group, or at least giving your friend some space, may actually be good for you as well. You can build connections that don’t have the same emotional baggage, and you can apply the lessons you’ve learned to new situations so you don’t make the same mistake again.
Confessing a crush when you and your friend are both single is VASTLY different than telling someone who is married that you have a crush on them. As Riese mentions above, what was your intention in revealing the crush? Was it just to unburden yourself? Or did you hope she’d leave her wife for you? Either way, it’s kind of a selfish action! A much kinder option, for both yourself and this individual, would have been to talk out your feelings with someone outside the friend group and maybe put some distance between the two of you.
I don’t want to minimize how hard it is to lose a whole friend group though! Speaking from personal experience, it’s really fucking hard! But sometimes that space helps you see the flaws in the dynamics that were there all along. If there’s anyone you’re really missing seeing, maybe reach out to them and try to build individual relationships with them? Be prepared, however, for some of these people to not want to continue a friendship with you, and that sucks but it’s their right.
I mostly agree with what Shelli said, although I would not have framed it so harshly, since I’m not a ‘kick a dyke when she’s down’ kinda girl.
I agree that the LW acted in a way that wasn’t thoughtful or loving to herself or her crush or her crushes wife, but I can’t abide the labelling of her actions as indicative of her being a ‘toxic person’. Like this is the only snippet of info we know about this person’s entire life, and ‘toxic’ is such a staining un-nuanced word.
LW, I’m sorry that you let your heart and desire for intimacy run away with you, we’ve all been there, even if it didn’t manifest like this. It can be painful to long for something you so deeply want and not be able to have it. I think that your friend is more than entitled to be hurt and want space etc, but I’m sorry its spilled out into the rest of the friend group. Not everyone can read people’s intentions perfectly for a range of different reasons (ie autism!) and I don’t think it’s a deadly sin to have thought that your friend might be crushing on you. The problem is what you did with that info. People are very very very wedded to their monogamous ideals and treading on those toes can lead to chaos, as you’ve seen. It might be worth thinking about whether part of you just doesn’t really understand/desire monogamy and that might have played into why you were so reckless. Not saying that being poly gives you an excuse to act in a messy and thoughtless way (!! big emphasis on this!!), but it might be worth knowing this about yourself going forwards if it’s not something you’ve previously considered.
“People are very very very wedded to their monogamous ideals and treading on those toes can lead to chaos, as you’ve seen.” Or maybe people should respect other’s relationship boundaries? It’s crappy to try to pressure someone to act outside of their relationship structure no matter whether they are monogamous or polyamorous.
I didn’t call LW toxic, nor am I kicking them while down.
I made a separate statement about lesbians doing hurtful things and often excusing them in the name of being queer. It’s also highly unfair for you to think that in a few paragraphs, I am to address every possible reason why this person couldn’t read the others intention, especially when they did not mention at all that their reasoning behind their confession could be them being autistic.
I gave advice, comfort, and care while also being direct at points and in the end reminded them to follow their own heart and take any advice with a grain of salt.
Thanks for reading though.
i’m very sorry to see criticism that the response was harsh – especially when so often women, especially WOC, are criticized as such for speaking plainly. plain speaking seems so appropriate for the LW’s situation given the misunderstanding is acknowledged as hers, and the question is about appropriateness.
also, the compassion is everywhere, not sure how it was missed…
Shelli’s response was compassionate and clear, and likely aligned with the friend group’s. Not making things plain would have done the writer a disservice – especially since in a year’s time, they haven’t reached these conclusions on their own.
You are lying about what Shelli said, and this response reeks of misogynoir. Damn y’all are annoying.
THIS RIGHT HERE!!
Heyo as an autistic person…
Papering over a boundary violation by speculating that it might have been autism related is not the advocacy for the autistic community that you think it is.
Autistic people are also grown ass adults who are accountable and indeed being told (as Shelli did) that something was out of line is helpful, as clear communication should be helpful to anyone.
I would also note (because my toxic autistic trait is inability to refrain from lengthy elaborations ;-) ) that a much joked about autistic trait is that we are like vampires: many of us are actually afraid of intruding situations we’re not invited into and it’s more common for us to have the opposite interpretation than what’s described here (i.e. we need to be explicitly told someone is into us, or that we are wanted in a particular situation, and will assume that we are at fault for awkward dynamics.)
Oooof, I so appreciate the response to this letter! I think you really did not miss on a single point. The whole “marginalized identity is not a reason to be toxic” is so true and such a hard thing to grapple with in close knit queer groups. I so appreciate the tough love and balanced approach to this situation.
While I hope this isn’t a super common situation, I’ve been in a friend group that imploded because of this exact same thing. Someone couldn’t keep their feelings to themselves and then doubled down about it when told their confession was not appropriate. The fallout of the group fracture was not from us picking sides so much as seeing a pattern of behavior we didn’t want to put up anymore. I know my friend group situation was different, especially because it involved predatory behavior, but I think that sometimes we just have to accept that not everyone can reconcile. Sometimes things irreparably break friendships or friend groups and the best we can do is move forward and build from there.
This messy ass wannabe Shane shit. An awful tv trope is not reality
Dear LW! I am aware that my understanding of what is right and what is wrong is usually different from the autostraddle’s understanding, both writers and commenters, so… perhaps I am wrong here, but I want to say something that I do not see being said by anyone else. Just… to put some different perspective? If one of my dear friends would offend/hurt another of my dear friends, I would be heart-broken. I do not know what I would do, and it depends on many things, but I want to believe that I wouldn’t end a friendship without giving my reasons and having an honest conversation. It is not noble and it is not right, in my opinion. Your friends chose to take sides, whether because of convenience or their understanding of what is morally right, or any other reasons, and they DID NOT choose your side. From what I understand in your letter, none of them tried to contact your privately (even just to explain where they stand in this conflict and what they think about you), check up on you, continue friendship separately from the group. It is not good and it is not bad, it is their right. It just shows that you are less important for them than the friend you offended. Once again, I would never do such a thing to a person who is dear and close to me. I think most people won’t. I really do not think you need to try to fix anything with your friends. With the friend you’ve hurt – yes, if you want to, but not with the group. I would advice you to move on and find new people, with whom you will be wiser and not repeat your mistakes, but who will be real friends in turn. Also, I have mutual friends with an ex-friend, who hurt me much more (in my opinion, of course) than you hurted yours, and while our mutual friends keep us separately and not invite us together at the same time, we still have great relationship, and it would be WILD for me to expect them to end friendship with my “enemy”. It would be surreal, honestly. The thought would feel surreal for them, too. So, I understand why you are angry. Move on, find people who care about you even when you are wrong, and discuss their disagreement/anger/any other feelings with you, and not just isolate you and break up with you without explanation.
I’m with you here, mostly. I understand LW’s pain pretty acutely and get why it feels so unfair. What LW did was Wrong, but that their friendships weren’t strong enough to withstand that or to warrant a conversation is a sobering and disappointing moment (to be fair, people hate confrontation/conversation like that and they might have a point). Ultimately, though, people have been cut off from people they are friends with or want to be friends with for worse. I wonder how many people LW rebuffed friendship or connection with over the years? For being a different age than them, for being annoying or not interesting enough to them, for all sorts of reasons. If any reason is a just reason for someone you want to be friends with to distance themselves from you, being an asshole to one of them is probably it.
I wonder if LW has attempted to reach out to the friends 1 to 1, or just expected they would all continue hanging out as a group? It’s sad that none of the friends thought to schedule some 1 to 1 time with LW, but if LW wants to make a last ditch effort, maybe indicating they are OK or wanting to still see people individually could be a beneficial arrangement for everyone
Sadly though…it’s the way of the world that community for many of us is more tenuous and ever changing than how we imagine it. There are downsides to this, but then it has also given Lw freedom over the years to pick up and drop people as they please, I’m sure. Even if LW cannot reconcile with their queer friends (a year is a long time for them to be brushing her off, so it’s very possible they are done with her), I hope she can love on her straight friends a bit and realize that even though she feels alone, she’s not.
I’ve been crushing hard on someone who is taken and really needed to read this lol
It can be really disorienting to be told that someone “knows” you have more-than-friends feelings for them when you don’t. It does make it hard to go forward with the friendship, because if your friendliness was being misinterpreted before, who’s to say it won’t be again. Also it makes the whole friendship feel a little tainted sometimes, like oh you’ve been lying to me this whole time, I thought we were friends but you wanted something more out of it. Like in high school when you think your best friend wants to hang out with you at the mall because that’s what she told you but then it turns out she actually wanted to go to the mall to see her crush who works at the Sunglasses hut and you were just a metaphorical (or literal) vehicle. Like who’s to say if that friend actually did also want to spend time with you or just was in it for the crush, and how can you trust them at their word about why they want to hang out after that?
Anyway that’s mostly me just venting my own baggage haha this advice is great. I especially love this part:
“Give yourself a bit of grace while also understanding that what you did hurt someone. Hold space for it all.”
The “apologize and move on” method is criminally underused in adult friendships. Not “apologize and then keep bringing it up after you’ve smoothed things over just to apologize more” or “apologize every two weeks hoping they’ll change their mind about not being able to move past this.” Some relationships can come back from a mistake, some can’t. You can’t force someone to forgive you. You can just do your best, say your piece, and accept what happens next. Even if it sucks.
I hope the LW finds a queer group to fall back into soon, whether it’s the same one or a new one, and that they learn from all this.
“The “apologize and move on” method is criminally underused in adult friendships” YES
I think it may be premature to reach out to her for another apology. This letter makes it clear that while you recognize your mistake, you think that your (former?) friends owe you something. They don’t.
When you can justify why they’ve taken this position, that would be a better time for a heartfelt apology. You don’t have to like the distance they established, but you should respect it and give them the grace you’re currently giving yourself. Hopefully with time, this group can trust you again.
I think Shelli’s response is fair and honest. LW, I’m glad you can see your role and that you’re working on owning your mistake here and hope this will help you continue to do that minus the ‘don’t other people do this?’- I know I have a lot more respect for apologies when they don’t come paired with minimization or excuses.
All any of us can do is speculate about the friend group’s reactions because we lack their perspective and so much information about history, personalities, and group dynamics, but it’s simultaneously true that a) you made a choice to cross a very clear boundary and it makes sense that it would shake up relationships and how people see you, and b) regardless of the cause, it hurts to lose people and to feel like you’re not allowed to come back from a mistake. If nothing else I hope this can all be a learning experience that you bring into new queer friendships- which you will have. Even if you can’t make it right with these friends despite those attempts at accountability, in the bigger picture as a human you do get to fuck up and keep going with the commitment to do better next time. Good luck.
Awesome advice! One of the things I was wary of when queer girl shows started going mainstream was this exact thing: drama-fuelled storylines creating unrealistic and dysfunctional cultural norms for our community the same as the straights have done for theirs. I used to be like, it’s very lesbian to be a proper friend because we can see what the hets are doing with their weird anti-friendship culture and just not do that, but I suppose we all just project what we want onto the community and we’re all wrong!
Hey, I’m old retired straight guy living in the UP of Michigan. You crossed that line. Don’t mess somebody’s partner. Or you’re going be living in the UP with this old guy. Believe me!
i agree w everything in the column.
i am gathering the LW started off assuming their friend’s marriage was monogamous which makes their next moves definitely a problem. in a more-poly-is-the-norm friend group, someone asked my and my partner out, and we are monogamous. we just said no as one does when one is asked out and wants to say no for any reason, and continued being friends with them. after that my partner & i did more intentionally communicate our our monogamy in the group. a couple ppl told us (both! together! in a group setting!) how attractive we were and it was very flattering and not weird. . . . i guess i’m saying there’s space to communicate attraction/crushes/’would totally date you if you were available’ when ppl are already partnered and even monogamously so, but it requires having a lot less assumptions than happened here.
I agree with the advice. My suggestion for the LW is to start looking for new queer friends.
For whatever reason (either they know the details or they don’t but picked up on weird vibes between you and your crush and her wife and chose them) you lost your queer friends group because of a mistake on your point.
Instead of trying to apologize to somebody in order to be invited back in start looking for new queer friends.
It hurts. You’re sad and lonely, but you’re paying the price for a mistake you made. It’s not an injustice. I think you should try to move on.
i dated someone in a monogamous relationship and we were pretty up front about finding other people attractive/crushes. you can’t always help feelings that occur. that honesty was our way of prioritizing each other – ‘i’m telling you this, not hiding and feeding it…’ so, maybe in that relationship someone approaching one of us with a crush might not have been a big deal if was about being honest and letting sunshine keep things clean.
based on the LW stating they knew their crush was monogamously taken, it seems like initially LW was seeking an affair or breakup. which, then, seems less like a mistake and more like an intention, even if its premise was mistaken. it’s very hard to lose people, and not everything can be fixed.
if that remains the case, i hope the LW finds a new group of friends and things work out better.
Uuuuugggghhhh, thank you so much for this.
I recently was in a very similar situation – a friend “jokingly” announced that they had a crush on me, and that it was causing distraction for them daily (we’re also coworkers). We’re both married. Best friends. Same queer friend group. And while the crush was admittedly mutual (though maybe not in intensity), the interaction just felt… gross, in a way I couldn’t put my finger on or explain. I quibbled on whether to admit my own feelings while shutting them down, in an attempt to avoid awkwardness, but I knew in my gut it would just escalate the situation. Having a crush, for me, does not on any level mean that I want anything more, or that my monogamous relationship with my wife is at all negotiable. For this other person, I don’t know. So I moved past it without responding. But it’s nagged at me.
I’ve been frustrated with them for even putting me in the situation. This response really helped me clarify why, and to realize that I feel this way because my boundaries were crossed. I feel better equipped if it comes up again. Thank you!
I’ve been in the shoes of LW, but I was too insecure to mention that it felt like the other person liked me back, though it did. As a response, my crush quickly let me know it was not reciptocal and a very thankful shift happened : she stopped touching me unnecessarily (for example no more slight caress when like, passing the salt), and scaled back the super intense eye contact as well as the laughing at all my jokes, bad ones included (and the occasional wink). At first, I missed her attention a lot, but after a few weeks, I was relieved things were clearer as to where we stood, and group hangs continued with a clearer dynamic. Had I not blurted out my feelings I suspect her flirting (can’t call it otherwise) would have continued and I would have gone on wasting time focusing on her instead of creating stronger bonds with the other people in the group.
It was such a relief I did not face exclusion, because that was my first queer group of friends and not being the best at social cues, loosing my entire friend group would probably made me loose all confidence in my ability to make queer friends. I am also thankful this person did not make my interaction with them about their partner.
I hope LW can find other queer friends with whom things are more straightforward.
Haha paragraphs? Clearly I don’t know those.
awwww thanks for sharing this story!!!!
When I read the lead in I knew some stern advice was gonna be had. But once I saw the first “tho” in the letter that was all I needed to know. No offense to LW, I feel like there’s a whole blasé attitude about the whole thing. I agree with what someone else said about the friend group, maybe there were already fishy behaviors by the LW and it just all happened to coincide with this other event. –Shelli’s advice was solid. Use this time for personal growth.
This was a really good answer. Another thing I’d flag as someone who has been the “wife” in the situation is how shitty it feels knowing that a person you thought was a friend turned out to be hanging out with you to get to your partner. It might not solely be the woman you had feelings for who doesn’t want to hang out with you any more – it might also be the woman who thought she was your friend who feels like she’s been treated as a kinda disposable inconvenience getting between you and her partner. LW doesn’t really explain how much the wife is part of the friendship group, but if she is, LW was a really shitty friend to her in a whole bunch of ways and it’s pretty understandable not to want to be LW’s friend any more.
LW should have subbed their own first par, read the words ‘happily married’ and stopped writing. It was trash behaviour, and their refusal to see it as such and having a pity party for one is infuriating. Maybe they’re very young, their spelling of ‘tho’ indicates that, but I hope they take this as a lesson on how to behave towards friends. Stats may not indicate it, but marriage, or even a committed relationship in whatever form, means something to most people, and in real life people don’t take kindly to it being trifled with. And I agree with commenters who says that good friends don’t just cut you off for no reason, or the first instance of poor behaviour. This feels like a final straw.
Confessing to people who are taken and monogamous is fine, as long as you have the kind of friendship where you talk about weird problems you have with each other even if it’s messy. Also, as long as you respect the person’s relationship and make it clear you’re just trying to communicate your feelings and not actually trying to get them to dump their partner or cheat. Sometimes saying it and getting rejected helps you get it out of your system, or maybe you keep getting twitchy and nervous around your crush and that’s putting strain on the friendship, and you want to explain why this is happening so they don’t think you hate them. I’m the partner of someone who gets crushed on pretty frequently, and it’s more frustrating when someone has an obvious crush on her that they obviously want to go somewhere, but they’re pretending everything’s normal.
The issue here is that LW wasn’t being respectful. This wasn’t just communicating some feelings that have to do with the friendship, this was shooting their shot, and that’s why LW’s crush thought it was rude. Because hitting on people in monogamous relationships is inherently rude, not because talking to a friend in a monogamous relationship about issues that affect the state of the friendship is inherently rude.
+1
‘Stop using being a dyke as an excuse to be a toxic person’ is confronting but excellent advice. Us queers need to stop using challenging heteronormative systems and values as a smokescreen for unethical behaviour in our communities. This shitty conduct is real and it fucking sucks. Morality doesn’t have to be a quaint Victorian-era concept that keeps people down, it’s actually a code for living an ethical life. When you trip up (cause nobody is perfect) it guides you towards acknowledging where you went wrong and doing your best to learn and grow. Love your work Shelli.
This is horrible advice. Maybe if that expression is unwelcome, then that can be expressed and a boundary can be henceforth set; but no, the consequences of expressing how you feel shouldn’t be exile. What if it was the friend who had said “I can’t be friends with you because MY feelings for you threaten my marriage, bye!” Now, isn’t that protecting their precious marriage, above all? No, it’d be a huge overreaction to something that happens all the time, and a sign that the marriage probably won’t last. The whole friendship group just shutting them out is disproportionate and, let us be honest, is done out of awkwardness and cowardice if not bitchiness. We should not be condoning this as queer people. Support and solidarity first, the sanctity of marriage second. Lose all your friends and have to be friends with straight people cos your friend’s marriage is THIS fragile? No way.
It’s not fragile to value your marriage more over friends. People are allowed to be uncomfortable and not want to hang out with others who hit on them and mistake their friendliness for flirting. Why do you think people should force themselves to stay around people who make them uncomfortable? We can’t ask for queer relationships to be taken as seriously as hetero ones, but then say that it’s not a big deal if one hits on a taken monogamous person. Queens have spent long enough having to put up being uncomfortable for the sake of pleasing others. Why do we need to feel the need to continue this, especially if it’s with friends?
For real! It’s pretty gross to act like someone prioritizing their marriage is somehow anti-queer. The whole “fragile marriage” comment sounds like someone doesn’t have respect for others boundaries. People that value being able to constantly express their feelings without regards for others feelings and boundaries are exhausting to be around. OP would have done better to keep their inappropriate emotions in check and deal with them privately. You don’t get burden others like this and just expect them to put up with it without any awkwardness. What was the letter writer expecting as an outcome? An affair? To get the friend to divorce? Actions have consequences. No one is owed forgiveness.
Great advice Shelli!!
I’ve been the person who received the confession in this situation and it did NOT feel good.
My friend knew I was in a happy monogamous relationship so what did she hope to achieve by telling me this? It didn’t make me feel desired or complimented. It made me feel disrespected and kinda gross in a way that is difficult to articulate.
Our friendship didn’t last afterwards because of how pushy my friend was about it. How can you go back to normal with someone who doesn’t respect your boundaries? I heard through the grapevine that she went on to repeat the same behaviour with other women afterwards so she obviously didn’t even see anything wrong with what she did.
OP, if you’re genuinely contrite about this then I hope you can get your friends back. I would have patched things up with my friend after a cooling-off period if she had shown me that she was sorry. So maybe your friend will too.