“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 202: Lean On Me

Well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequences of our Gen Q friends’ actions! We’re back for another episode full of talking, laughing, loving, breathing, and heavy on the fighting. In fact, Riese thinks this might be the episode with the most lesbian squabbles(TM) in all of L Word history!

Join us in this week’s episode of To L And Back as everyone deals with the fall out from the wedding, Shane schemes a new way to become rich, again, and Alice finally meets her editor. Meanwhile we discuss whether the people who hurt us deserve to be happy again! And also the top shortage. We’re bringing that discussion back around. 


Drew: Hi, I’m Drew!

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa!

Riese: And I am Riese! And this is—

Riese, Drew, and Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition!

Riese: Edition.

Analyssa: Edition.

Drew: I love the addition of the edition.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: Yeah. Thank you so much. Wow. What a day.

Drew: Here we are.

Analyssa: Riese has had a morning.

Riese: I’ve had a morning. I spilled my entire water bottle. I think I broke my closet door.

Analyssa: Did you spill puzzle pieces?

Riese: I did… Oh yeah. I did spill a puzzle everywhere. If I’m doing a puzzle, you already know I’m not doing well.

Drew: Oh, no. I do know this about you.

Analyssa: We’re persevering.

Riese: We’re persevering.

Analyssa: It’s fine.

Riese: Because I think that’s what’s important, is that you stick with it.

Analyssa: Yes. So true.

Drew: Yeah. I agree. I think it’s a lesson that all of our friends in fictional Los Angeles will also have to learn.

Riese: Totally. Yeah. This is going to be an interesting episode for the people.

Drew: This episode, 202, is called “Lean On Me.” It is directed by show creator, Marja-Lewis Ryan, and it is written by Jonell Lennon, who previously was a writer on Pretty Little Liars, a show that I have not watched, but I’m pretty sure Riese has.

Riese: Oh wow. I have. I have viewed the program, most of the program. Yes. It’s a very zany, it’s a zany little show. More pressing to me personally, is she related to John Lennon?

Drew: I didn’t do that research, but I can do that research before our next episode and return. Or if any readers want to let us know. It’s spelled J-O-N-E-L-L. It’s not J-O-H-N, so it’s not like you just had John and then added an L. It could be. This is how Hollywood works. A lot of people are — and that’s just part of it, and it is what it is. I don’t actually, I don’t want to spread lies about this writer who made a name for herself on Pretty Little Liars.

Riese: Is her last name the same as John Lennon’s or as the dictator, Lenin?

Drew: Wow. Pretty bold, too.

Riese: I actually don’t know who Lenin is, but it’s on my mind because this morning I tried Lennon as a word in the New York Times spelling bee game and it said it wasn’t a word.

Drew: It is spelled like John Lennon, not like the Russian leader.

Riese: The Russian leader?

Drew: I’m not trying to… Yeah.

Riese: So Linen’s a good guy?

Drew: Ah. I’d rather not take a strong stance on Lenin right now.

Analyssa: We put Drew on the spot.

Drew: But he’s not Stalin.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Stalin. That’s one of the bad ones, right?

Drew: Okay. I would say, let’s do some Russian history later. Actually what if we just started talking about this episode of The L Word?

Analyssa: Yeah. Let’s go into it.

Riese: Let’s do it.

Drew: Great.

Drew: Okay. Guess what we start with? Sophie and Dani are fighting.

Analyssa: They’re fighting.

Riese: This is a multi-disciplinary wedding venue. They’ve got a marital bed to fight in. It seems like things are not going well.

Analyssa: Dani is so mad.

Riese: Right. Fair.

Drew: Fair.

Analyssa: But she’s leading with mad, is the thing.

Riese: I think I would also… I would probably punch a wall. I’ve never punched a wall before, but I feel like if at my wedding—

Analyssa: I think my reaction to this would be to run. I guess that’s why it was so surprising to me. She is really, 10 toes on the ground, ready to fight with Sophie. I personally would be like, “Goodbye, forever” and I would just sprint away.

Riese: Yeah. I would start a new life.

Analyssa: I can’t actually run to be clear.

Drew: Yeah. I used to punch walls a lot when I was in high school, but I sort of grew out of that phase. My walls in my childhood bedroom, a little bit of a mess. But, I don’t think that’d be my reaction now. I think I also would probably not run away, but I definitely would be like, “I’m going to want to take a minute,” because I wouldn’t want people to see me have feelings. I would be like, “Cool, cool, cool. I don’t care about you. Go fuck yourself. I’m going to go,” and I’d grab my best friend. Then my best friend, Micah, would be like, “Yeah, I already knew this whole time.” But I would be like, “Okay, cool, so everyone is dead to me and I am going to move.”

Riese: I would run away, change my name, start a new life, get a new face. Face transplant. Just everything, redo it all. But she’s yelling. She’s asking Sophie, I think, some important questions.

Drew: Yeah. I think so. It’s just chaos everywhere. Alice tells Shane that—

Alice: Oh, she looks like a little kitten on a highway.

Riese: That was cute because it was true.

Analyssa: Alice looked really good when she stood up to rescue Finley. I was like, hello.

Riese: Alice was being very “elder dyke” in this, which I appreciated. Then fucking — was it Bette or Shane who was like, “That is the most selfish thing.”

Analyssa: It was Bette!

Bette: I think that was the most selfish thing I’ve ever seen.

Drew: Bette is on one in this episode. We’re going to get into that.

Riese: Yeah. Bette, I have some questions but—

Analyssa: Bette saying, “This is the most selfish thing I’ve ever seen in my life” is like — that you’ve ever seen Sophie do? Maybe. But that you’ve ever — you, Bette Porter, have ever seen? I don’t buy it.

Riese: Maybe, I don’t know, what about when Shane just didn’t fucking show up for her own wedding?

Analyssa: What about when Bette cheated on Tina a hundred times?

Riese: Oh. Yeah. We’ll get there. We’ll get to that.

Drew: Well, we’re going to get to that. Okay. Everything’s chaos and it’s so silly. I was obsessed with all of this. This made it all worth… The absurdity of the whole situation, last episode, that bothered me, made it all worth it for this chaos. Dani tells Sophie that she never wants to see her again, and that she’s fucking disgusting. It’s not that that’s unfair, but I do wonder if Dani would feel the same if she had seen the, “What are you doing, buddy? What are you doing?” moment. I think maybe she would have understood.

Analyssa: Yeah. She would have been like, “That was really sweet.”

Drew: Yeah. She maybe would have been like, “Okay, yeah, this was wrong but also I do get. It was really hot and sweet.” Sometimes that’s how life is. Anyways, Dani punches Finley in the fucking face.

Riese: Yeah. That was funny.

Analyssa: That was pretty funny. I do think Finley should have seen that coming.

Riese: Oh yeah. She deserved it.

Analyssa: I think, in my head, Finley saw that coming and was like, “I deserve this. I’m just going to let her do it.”

Riese: I’m just going to take it.

Analyssa: Because she could’ve ducked.

Riese: So, everyone’s basically mad at everyone, which is a great way to start this episode, which has more arguments in it than any other episode I’ve ever recapped of The L Word, or this has more fights than any of them.

Analyssa: This is a big “the girls are fighting” episode.

Riese: Yeah. It is. Everyone’s—

Drew: That’s a fun fact.

Analyssa: Yeah. The only other thing I have about this wedding chaos is that I love Tess just being like, “What the fuck?” Like, I’m her in any chaotic situation, just watching and being vaguely judgemental, but not engaging. She’s like, “This is not for me.”

Riese: Her facial expressions are golden. When she’s like, “Is she drunk?” Her eyes were… Oh, it’s so cute. Anyway, big drama, big love, big punch in the face. That’s what I always say about a wedding.

Drew: It’s everything you want. Okay. Then we move on to Sophie with her family and I think we realized that actually we could see Sophie’s grandma in the last episode, but not clearly enough that I caught it. This was my moment at least, of being like, “Oh my God, thank God. Sophie’s grandma’s okay.”

Analyssa: Me too, yeah. I was thrilled and I just love this family so much. They all really care about each other and they’re just trying their best. I love the parent/grandma thing of being like, “You didn’t do that great. But what do you need from us?” It’s all very supportive, but not indulging.

Drew: No, absolutely.

Riese: It was realistic advice. They weren’t going to sugar coat it, but they were also going to help out with whatever she needed.

Analyssa: She’s really sad.

Riese: Yeah. Also, Dani was like, “Don’t talk to me ever again.” And Sophie’s like, “She’s not answering my phone calls.” Yeah, babe. Yeah. She’s not going to be, she’s not picking up the phone. She just said, “Never speak to me again,” which obviously was dramatics in the moment.

Drew: That’s something that I don’t like about — I was going to say fictional characters, but it’s actually very realistic for fictional characters, because I don’t like it in real people either. It’s if someone says… If you have wronged someone, it is not their responsibility to comfort you or to be on their terms. You need to say, “I’m so sorry. I want to talk to you. I want to work this out. Call me when you’re ready to do so. I’m going to check back in.” Either leave it at that, would be my preference. But if you need to provide a “I’ll check back in, in a week” or whatever it is, fine. But the insistent “I need to talk to you, we need to talk about this,” when you are the one who did something wrong, it bothers me so much.

Riese: Yeah. It’s really selfish. Also, we find out that Sophie… Because her mom’s like, “Do you love Finley?” and she doesn’t answer that. She just says, “I love Dani.”

Drew: Yeah. Maribel is definitely the one who’s harshest on her. Because she’s like,

Maribel: Just like Dad.
Sophie: What?!

Drew: Depending on what your relationship is with various family members, I think that is maybe the meanest thing you can say to a sibling if that is the dynamic, is something along those lines. It’s not maybe unfair, but it is pretty harsh.

Analyssa: It was a really low blow.

Riese: But I think it’s interesting, this scenario, because we know that Sophie does have feelings for Finley. But I feel like, and I know I’m projecting because I actually had an incredibly similar experience, oddly. But it’s this panic, she, on the one hand, is this person who’s very adrift in life, unemployed, doesn’t have a place to live, doesn’t have her shit together at all and who she feels this incredible attraction to. On the other hand, is this person who she has a life with, who’s friends with her friends and they have this relationship. Even though she wasn’t happy in that relationship at all, if she doesn’t get Dani back, then she has to accept that she fucked up. Like she’s an asshole. It’s not just about making the relationship work, it’s about who is she? Who is she as a person? Is she somebody who fucked up this wonderful relationship to go to a rank little love nest with a 26-year-old who barely has her foot in the door or whatever, to quote Cherie Jaffe? Or is she a reliable… Which is a terrible classist thing. But, who is she? I think she’s fighting, not just for the relationship, but maybe even more so for her own sense of self.

Drew: Yeah. Well…

Riese: What do you think?

Drew: Yeah, that all makes total sense to me. It’s interesting, watching Sophie’s reaction to all of this and being surprised, because I really thought that she felt trapped, so she would’ve wanted to… Especially, we’ll see this throughout the episode, she’s really trying to get Dani back and I’m like, really? But I think that makes a lot of sense, that it’s not about getting Dani back. It’s about who she is. That makes sense.

Riese: Yeah. Also, if Dani leaves then she’s in this relationship with somebody who publicly humiliated her ex. It’s like this is one kind of life and this is another kind of life. That is really scary. I feel like she’s just panicking and maybe that’s because I’m a Sinley shipper. But I do feel like she’s just panicking. Also, she’s been with Dani for so long. I think there is a moment whenever you’re ending a long-term relationship with somebody, where there’s that day or that hour or that week or that month where you all of a sudden, when you actually have to think about losing them, then you immediately panic. It’s just a psychological response regardless of whether or not your relationship was even working.

Drew: Totally. Well, going to another relationship that is not working, Alice is with Nat and Alice says that she doesn’t think Finley has even seen The Graduate.

Analyssa: I loved that!

Drew: Then her and Nat are like, “Well, we haven’t either, but we get the reference.” But I don’t believe that. Why wouldn’t Nat and Alice have seen The Graduate? Who wasn’t seen… I get that Finley maybe hasn’t seen The Graduate, but who hasn’t seen The Graduate?

Riese: Finley is definitely one of those people who you mention a movie that literally everybody in the world has seen, and she’s like, “What?” But she’s seen Jurassic Park 25 times.

Drew: Yeah. I believe that. I believe that, but I don’t believe that Alice, especially just knowing everything about Alice, that Alice wouldn’t have seen The Graduate. But also, she hasn’t seen SVU, so she doesn’t know anything.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I don’t understand what they’re doing with Alice having never watched anything. Anyway, whatever.

Drew: That’s not important.

Riese: This is a problem for Drew because people’s media speaks a lot about who they are as a person. You’re continually frustrated when you’re like, this is not actually an accurate depiction of the type of media that she would have been involved in.

Drew: Yeah. I want to know everyone’s sun sign and I want to know everyone’s favorite movie and that would really tell me a lot. Anyways, Nat brings up open relationships and Alice is not into it. It’s surprising that Nat is the exciting one, not to associate polyamory with excitement and monogamy with not excitement, but I think I just did that. I think it’s fair when we’re watching a television program, the potential for excitement is probably more if a character who’s in a relationship is also having other experiences versus just being in a relationship. If anyone who’s monogamous out there is offended by that, I’m sorry, but I think we can get on board with this.

Riese: I’m monogamous and I’m not offended.

Drew: Great. Thank you Riese, for speaking for the monogamous community.

Riese: But Alice literally says that bad people are poly.

Nat: Monogamy is not for everyone.
Alice: Well it’s for most people, except the bad ones.

Analyssa: That’s the thing that I was like, “Oh,” is Alice is vehemently like, “That is not okay.”

Riese: Yeah, like that’s bad.

Analyssa: She’s not willing to have this conversation at all, which is very stressful and leads to Nat fully crying in the bathroom. Nat is going through something.

Drew: Yeah. Do you think she’s crying about the future of her relationship, or do you think she’s crying because that trans woman was just so hot that she’s like, “What if I never get to have sex with Marissa?”

Analyssa: Probably that one.

Riese: Yeah, probably that one. But God, Alice did a lot of things this episode that I was like, oh my God. Also, I don’t buy that. She’s been alive in the Los Angeles community of queer people for at least two decades and she thinks that non-monogamy is inherently bad and only bad people do it? That doesn’t even make sense.

Drew: No.

Riese: She wrote the chart.

Drew: Right.

Riese: What?

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know what’s happening with Alice. Alice has always been a favorite of mine and wherever they’re taking her character is honestly probably healthy for me, because Alice has never been the biggest ally to my community. Maybe if they also make her boring, so I don’t like her, it would be healthier for me, personally. Maybe it’s a gift. Thanks Marja.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re doing it for you. At, wherever Dani is held up, which we have to assume is her dad’s house, right? Sophie brought something in a dish. Are they brownies? Is it a casserole?

Riese: It’s got to be kugel. It’s got to be a kugel.

Analyssa: I don’t know what it is. But Sophie brought that over.

Riese: Maybe it’s 10 pear polenta tarts. She’s like, “Look, I just spent $50 million on you. Take me back and pay off my debt.”

Drew: It’s the traditional thing you do after you cheat.

Riese: Yeah. Spongecake.

Analyssa: And Dani is responding dramatically. She’s throwing the casserole dish in the trash. She’s flushing her ring down the toilet and sending photos of it to Sophie.

Riese: Literally, flushing money down the toilet. I was—

Analyssa: Appalled?

Riese: Pained, deeply pained.

Drew: Okay. But that’s the thing a rich person can do. That’s what you get… When you have an evil father, you get the privilege of being able to flush the wedding ring down the toilet. Fuck you. It’s a powerful thing. Engagement ring? Wedding ring?

Analyssa: We knew that Dani’s dad was rich, but I, I don’t know about you two, I didn’t know that he has a man in a suit who opens the door at his home, rich.

Riese: Right. He lives in a manor.

Analyssa: That was shocking to me.

Riese: Yeah. I also expected he would be living in a slick modernist type of LA, Hollywood Hills home. This was like a fifties movie star used to live in this ensemble.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know anyone who is that level of rich. How rich do you have to be to be that level of rich?

Analyssa: Pretty rich.

Riese: Yeah. All we know about his business is that some of it involved opioids. It is my understanding that they made a great deal of money, that industry. So, maybe it’s the Sackler mansion that they let him live in. But also, obviously Dani… If I were Dani, I would probably be doing, I don’t know what I’d be doing. I guess being really upset. I would have blocked Sophie, that’s for sure.

Analyssa: That is the thing. I would instantly just not be getting Sophie’s calls anymore. If that’s the choice I’m making, then we have the technology for that. You don’t have to hear from her actually. But you know who Dani does have to hear from? Is Bette Porter, who is here to save the day.

Riese: With tartine.

Analyssa: Hilarious that she brought tartine. Of course, she would.

Riese: This was such a nice, generous moment from Bette. Dani was a little bit hostile, but I think Bette… That’s the same way Bette is, so she probably was like, “Okay.”

Drew: Totally. It was a really good first act of a fanfic too. It didn’t go in that direction, but I definitely was watching it like, “I know you’re sad, but sometimes a good way to deal with your sadness, let me tell you.”

Riese: Boning.

Analyssa: Yeah. Be flirtier instead of mean.

Drew: I think actually if Bette Porter came to my house right after I had found out that my fiance had cheated on me, I think the only thing I would… Because here’s the thing about it: there’s never a moment where you could make a move on Bette Porter and have lower stakes. Because if you do it and she’s like, “Whoa,” you could be like, “I just was cheated on. I’m crazy right now.” It becomes totally normal. I think it’s actually the prime time to go for your ex-boss, who is the most… I was going to say the most powerful lesbian in Los Angeles. When I say that, I don’t mean that like… I’m sure there are people who are richer, have more political influence. But I think by most powerful, just spiritually. Bette Porter.

Riese: Yeah, definitely. Her soul looms large in LA.

Analyssa: Anyway, as I was mad about last episode, Shane did fuck up Tess’s life by ruining this poker game that she was bartending. Confusing as it may be that she was bartending this poker game, it was a good paycheck, and Shane ruined it.

Drew: We were talking about this last episode of, what was the intention with Eddie and whatever, how are we supposed to feel about Eddie? The idea that Eddie would blackball Tess from every game in town… Tess didn’t do anything wrong. It just adds into the column of Eddie’s in the wrong in the situation, which I don’t think should be the takeaway. I know that Lena Waithe is a big guest star, but if you just… I don’t know. It still feels like it’s using this character that was not very well developed, who showed up to just be like, “Hey, there should be spaces in LA lesbian world that are for specifically Black lesbians.” And taking a character who says that, then being like, “And they’re wrong about everything except that.” It just creates a weird dynamic and I don’t know. Anyways.

Riese: Yeah. For a Black… They rarely have Black characters, rarely have masculine characters. To have a Black masculine-of-center character be the one who is like… Because you’re right. It doesn’t make sense. Why in the world would she blackball Tess from every game in town? That’s immature and petty. It’s just a shitty direction, I guess.

Analyssa: Well, luckily for Tess, you can hear how excited I am about this for her. Shane has a new pitch, which is their own underground lesbian poker game. Tess delivers an absolutely incredible barb, which is:

Tess: I don’t really know how to say this.
Shane: Say it.
Tess: You’re not discreet.

Analyssa: Yeah. I thought that was really funny.

Riese: She’s like, “You’re trouble. I don’t trust you.” This is illegal, right? Is it illegal? I can’t figure this out.

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: I think money makes it illegal in LA. Right? The actual money gambling part of it. I actually don’t know. But that’s what I think.

Riese: I guess we would know this if it was actually accurate that lesbians all over the city were playing poker all the time.

Drew: Or, we all know and we’re all just playing it cool so our listeners and the fans don’t catch on.

Riese: Yeah. Is this illegal? I don’t know.

Analyssa: Very allegedly illegal poker games that allegedly happen in Los Angeles.

Riese: Yeah. I could definitely put down 10 bucks.

Drew: Yeah. So back to our primary drama, Finley walks in as Maribel and Micah are dealing with wedding gifts. Well, first of all, it’s nice that we’re happy about Maribel and Micah hanging out. Let’s say that. But Maribel does say that Micah is Jose’s Finley, which I think is unfair and also is fair. Well, it’s fair in the sense that Micah should also remove himself from the situation. I don’t think it’s fair in the sense that I don’t think Micah didn’t interrupt a wedding. Micah wasn’t friends with Jose’s husband. In fact, Micah didn’t even know when they first started. So there’s a lot of reasons why it’s actually not the same, but…

Riese: And also Micah found out that Jose was married while they were both looking at the mermaid painting, which I feel was … it’s sort of like having a concussion. When you are looking at something like that, you’re kind of in this weird zone.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Riese: Yeah. Can you imagine Micah interrupting a wedding? He would never. He’s so polite.

Analyssa: Sweet boy.

Drew: Finley continues showing up in places in their lives. She’s really not laying low. So she goes into work, and so does Sophie, obviously.

Analyssa: Finley … yeah, Finley is so funny to me because she just arrives back in LA, is like, I’ve been banished to Kansas City for awhile, but you know what seems right, is just going about my day the same way.

Riese: Alice needs her coffee.

Analyssa: Alice needs her coffee. I’m sorry, I did get a really big laugh out of her being like, “What’s the soup of the day?”

Riese: Soup chef.

Analyssa: And the assistant going, the bad assistant going—

Assistant: Oh, it’s just the soup that they have for today. Sometimes it’s made over veggie or clam chowder.

Analyssa: The soup of the day is the soup they have today.

Drew: That is pretty good.

Analyssa: I just thought that was so funny.

Drew: Yeah. As someone who has been a PA many times, it’s amazing how if you are just competent, people will act like you have changed their life. Like I truly have just had people talk about … I mean, I really haven’t left like a PA or assistant job without being offered another job after. Usually they’re for like a similar level and I don’t want to do it so I usually say no, but—

Analyssa: Okay, brag.

Drew: But it’s because it’s not that hard. The industry is just filled with boys like this who do not know how to do anything. So on the one hand, I think it’s pretty silly the whole running gag about Finley’s irreplaceable as a PA. But on the other hand it actually sort of checks out that Alice would be like, “Oh, I found this hot lesbian who knows how to actually do bare minimum tasks correctly.” I actually understand why she’s like, “We need to get her back here to ruin some lives and get me my coffee.”

Analyssa: 100%.

Riese: Yeah. Well also Finley doesn’t have ambitions, like she’s not like, “I’m going to be an assistant and work my way up or like, I want to be a writer.” She’s just like, “I’m going to be a really good assistant,” because this is kind of … she doesn’t really have any ambition beyond that at this point, you know?

Drew: Right. And someone who doesn’t have ambition, again suddenly, is Sophie who, when Alice is comforting her, she’s like, “I want that producer position. I need it.” And you know what? Honestly, I don’t think she should get it because she’s sad, but she was going to get it anyways and she turned it down. And so I think she … I’m happy that Alice is being like, “Yeah, you can have it.”

Riese: And Sophie’s like, “We can totally work together. It’ll be fine. We’ll be totally profesh.”

Analyssa: I’m sure that will go super well.

Drew: To be continued.

Analyssa: I’m just amazed they’re not actively crying. If I were Sophie or Finley I would be crying because everyone … I mean, there’s three people right now are pretty much at the worst point — are at some sort of emotional rock bottom.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I really don’t cry a lot. In fact, I have a whole eye condition that I recently discovered that prevents me from crying a lot, so it’s not just that I’m a Capricorn.

Riese: Oh my God. I’m so jealous. Is it contagious?

Drew: No. No, it’s not. It’s a thing I … yeah, anyways. But I don’t cry a lot, but when I was going through a regular breakup, I constantly had to go into the office bathroom because I was working in an office at the time, and cry. So that they’re cold in there — I mean, maybe they are crying and they’re just not saying it because how much time can we really spend watching Sophie cry in the bathroom? I would have liked to watch that.

Analyssa: A little bit of it.

Riese: I would have been like, this is so authentic. I would have raved about it.

Drew: Yeah. But so across town, Micah is deciding not to be Jose’s Finley. That really stuck. Because when the person who you’re about to be dating and have been friends with for a while, calls you out on your toxic … I’m just making this canon now, just wishful thinking canon, you decide that you are going to have some self-respect and also I guess, respect the institution of marriage. And so, yeah.

Riese: Also Jose is psycho in this scene.

Analyssa: Yeah, and then he’s like … his husband comes out and he’s like, “This is my friend Micah.” It’s like … it’s all bad.

Drew: Yeah. I will say it is one of the bolder things for Micah to do, to show up. Like as the…
Riese: The third.

Drew: What’s a male mistress called?

Riese: Mister.

Drew: Yeah, to show up — yeah, as the mister, to show up at the house and be like, “We’re going to have this fight right here,” it’s a move. I mean, I respect it. Something I didn’t like was that Micah’s mad because he says he didn’t lie about being trans so why would Jose lie about this? And it was a very, very weird false equivalency there.

Riese: I didn’t even catch that.

Drew: Yeah. He’s like, “I was honest with you about who I am. Why aren’t you honest with me about who you are?” And it’s like, I just am sort of confused by that because they were fully dating for long periods of time. And so — not that trans people throughout history haven’t kept their transness secret through long relationships, but it would have been pretty challenging to keep it a … I just am sort of like… the period of disclosure … It just showed a lack of understanding about disclosure and about … one, it’s weird because Micah … considering the sexual acts that they were doing, Micah would have had to disclose, or it would have been disclosed for him. And two, it’s not the same, being trans and being married when you are lying about being married. You actually don’t have an obligation to tell someone you’re trans. If Micah wanted to be like, I only do these sexual acts and do sexual acts that wouldn’t force him to disclose, he could have done. That’s not immoral. Trans people aren’t obligated to disclose their transness. Whereas I would say that maybe if you’re married in a monogamous relationship, before starting another relationship, you should maybe let that person in on it. I think those are just morally different. So I did not enjoy that, but I did enjoy Micah stirring shit up.

Analyssa: Drew, you’re 100% right.

Drew: So, speaking of writing that needs editing? Tom the editor arrives!

Riese: That’s good.

Drew: Thanks. Thanks. I was pretty proud of that one. It took me a second, but I’m pretty proud of it. Tom arrives. Alice is like, “Can I get you anything?” And he asks for gum, and they make it seem like the weirdest thing ever. And I don’t understand why, because if someone showed up to meet me and was like, “Do you have gum?” I’d be like, “Yes, I do have gum. And thank you for saying that because you are concerned with your dental hygiene and wanting to make the experience of us talking very close to each other pleasant. And so yes, here’s gum and I will also have gum myself.” Because sometimes when people ask for gum, I think, oh no, do I have bad breath and you’re asking for gum, cause you want me to also take a piece of gum? So if anyone ever asks me for gum, I will always also have gum even if I didn’t want gum in case I secretly have bad breath.

Riese: Oh, I always think, “Do you want a piece of gum?” means you have bad breath. And I will not be convinced otherwise.

Analyssa: Yeah. Except that this man chooses Juicy Fruit as that he’s going to use for his breath.

Analyssa: Yeah, that was a little pathological.

Drew: Yeah, no, horrifying. That’s the weird part. That’s what we should talk about.

Riese: But it’s pretty clear that, as we expected, that this is more of a … this is going to be a pretty heavy edit.

Drew: Yeah. And, and unsurprisingly, Alice is not thrilled about having her work edited. That is a very consistent … I think Alice of the entire, all the seasons of The L Word franchise, this is very consistent and makes sense that she would be like, “Are you fucking kidding me?” Professional challenges continue as Bette is meeting with an artist and it’s going well until Griffin Dunn … I need to remember — what’s Griffin Dunn’s name? What’s his character named?

Analyssa: Isaac?

Riese: Isaac, which is an insult to Isaac from the Torah.

Drew: Yeah, the original Isaac, you might say.

Riese: Yeah. OG. The first Isaac.

Drew: He really manages to screw things up, doesn’t he?

Riese: Yeah. It’s like this Black artist who wants to work with Bette and is excited that Bette … somewhat excited like Bette knows his work and really respects it. But he’s like, “I don’t know if I want to work with this guy.” He’s trying to sound smart about what he’s talking about, but he isn’t and… just don’t talk. He is not needed in this meeting. It’s not hard. Just don’t…

Analyssa: Yeah, this is the thing, he could have just swung by and been like, “Hi, it’s so nice to meet you. We’re so excited about this.” But he seems incapable of doing something like that. He can’t just be like, “Okay, great, Bette’s running things.” I’m sure this will become a problem.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it’s embarrassing for Bette. And it’s also like, then you’re like, oh, you’re one of those people, like one of those like white cis men who just cannot take yourself out of a conversation that doesn’t need to involve you.

Analyssa: Well, and Bette is clearly embarrassed, not just at how he’s acting, but also at her role in this meeting now. Like she’s kind of uncomfortable about having brought this person in to meet with her because she works for this guy. Like it just … it’s bad.

Riese: Speaking of awkward workplace politics.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: Nailed it.

Drew: That was great. That was great.

Riese: Finley’s eating spoiled yogurt.

Analyssa: Okay. Does that mean there were 12 full size yogurts? Like they couldn’t be individual ones because those all have tops that you rip off and you can’t put back on. She was like, “I was testing them to make sure they’re not expired.”

Riese: They were probably already … they were probably still sealed, but … it’s like, for example, I bought yogurt two months ago. I haven’t eaten it yet. Might not be good. But in the office refrigerator you open up and it’s like, Stephanie, Courtney, all over these little … sharpie all over these little yogurts that haven’t even been opened. And she’s like, “Are these old?” She’s a freegan.

Drew: Yeah. I definitely missed … I did not include any of the yogurt in my notes. That was something I missed. I did have that Sophie and Finley finally talked to each other.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That is the more important thing that happened in this scene. Yeah, you’re right. I just got really tripped up by the yogurt logistics.

Riese: And Sophie teases Finley a little bit.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I don’t think Finley has ever done anything this emotionally complicated, and she’s actually a kitten on the highway through the whole drive, you know?

Analyssa: When Finley asks Sophie if her grandma was mad at her, that was like—

Riese: Yeah. And so then Sophie and Finley have their big first fight.

Sophie: You should ice that.
Finley: Sorry, I was going to keep it around because I got it defending your honor so…
Sophie: Don’t do that.
Finley: Do what?
Sophie: Don’t make jokes. It’s not funny.
Finley: Okay. Whoa, what do you want me to do here?
Sophie: I want you to feel bad. I want you to feel just as bad as I do right now.
Finley: Hold on. You don’t think I feel bad?
Sophie: Oh, no, I know that you do. You feel bad for yourself. You feel bad for my grandma. Fuck, I bet you feel bad for Dani.
Finley: Of course I fucking feel bad for Dani.
Sophie: And what about me?

Drew: Yeah. And Finley says that Sophie wasn’t happy and Sophie says that she was. And let me tell you, I watched season one and I don’t know if Sophie watched season one, but Sophie was not happy. There’s no world in which like… maybe Sophie was happy in her relationship with Dani at some point—

Riese: Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Drew: But not when all this happened. Absolutely not. Not even a little.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: It would be so helpful if the characters on The L Word could watch previous seasons of The L Word, just so that they could make their decisions and stuff. I think they’d learn a lot.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I just can reread my old essays sometimes and get some perspective.

Riese: I actually have a really great example of this from The L Word, which is when Mark and Gomey hang up cameras all over Shane and Jenny’s house. Then Jenny finds out some stuff about Shane and Carmen by watching everyone’s favorite short film, “Shane Carmen Love Confession.”

Drew: Yeah. So you’re saying that really cis straight men who hang up private cameras to film lesbians are actually—

Analyssa: Performing a service.

Drew: … what we need more of in the world. I would be worried about joking about that if I thought that we had any cis straight men who listened to our podcast. That’d be wild. If you’re a straight cis man who listens to our podcast, please email us. I want to know your story. I want to tell you that you’re secretly a trans woman and help you on that journey.

Riese: I want to tell you that if you are that way and because of that, you’re making extra money, you could give it to us and thank you for your support and your service to us as a community. I would probably be nice to you in person. I would definitely be nice to you in person.

Drew: Anyways, Alice calls them out on this.

Analyssa: Because this fight gets pretty explosive.

Riese: Heated.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: I don’t really understand … like Sophie makes a really big point of being like, Finley hurt … like you hurt me. And I …

Drew: No.

Analyssa: … think that’s not exactly what happened. And Sophie really … this is to Riese’s point earlier.

Riese: She hurt Dani.

Analyssa: Yeah. Sophie was the one who did this. And if there is something that was done wrong, Sophie hurt Dani. And that’s the wrong that has been done. But Sophie really seems to want everybody to be sad that she is adrift now, which is sort of to your thing earlier. Like she’s going through something about what it means for her and that’s not really the focus.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I think what’s happening is that the writers are like, Rosanny Zayas is incredibly attractive and incredibly talented, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to try to make Sophie unlikable and also wrong. And we’re going to see if she can pull it off that people are still going to be rooting for her. And you know what, I still am.

Riese: I’m still rooting for her.

Analyssa: I’m still rooting for her. It’s complicated, but I am.

Riese: It’s complicated, yeah.

Drew: So the test worked. But I do wonder about why… about some of these reactions. But I think she’s justifying them. I’m just like, wow, you are a mess.

Riese: Right. Again, this is completely off the charts emotional, absolute anarchy for all of these people. Like everything the ground has been pulled out from underneath them. And like all of that catering and dress … all that suit. Maybe she’ll wear that suit some other time, I guess. She looked nice in the suit.

Analyssa: She looked good in the suit.

Riese: Yeah, she did look good in the suit.

Drew: Maybe when she inevitably, or I’m hoping inevitably, gets together with Finley, they kind of do a little bit of really toxic role playing where she’s wearing her wedding suit, Finley walks into the bedroom and goes, “Hello?” And then they have sex. Just throwing that out there.

Riese: Yeah, she’s like, “I think you love me too.”

Analyssa: Sophie’s like, “Yes.”

Riese: And then Sophie just like clobbers her and they fuck in the alley and then it turns into a big orgy. And Marissa and Nat finally have their moment.

Drew: Great, yeah.

Analyssa: I loved—

Riese: Speaking of.

Analyssa: Well, I loved Alice’s little green outfit when she comes in to break up the fight.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s really good.

Drew: I loved Alice saying—

Alice: I know lesbians. I know a lot of lesbians.

Drew: That was similarly to like, “for us as lesbians.” It was like one of those things where I don’t actually remember the total context of it, but I did write down that phrase because I just really like the idea of saying, “I know lesbians. I know a lot of lesbians.”

Riese: Did you see, she has a bisexual flag on her desk?

Analyssa: I didn’t.

Drew: That’s nice.

Riese: She has a little bi flag on her desk.

Analyssa: Good for her. We’ll talk about that later I’m sure.

Drew: Finley quits, because Finley is always wanting to do right by other people, even as she continuously blows up people’s lives.

Analyssa: She’s such a … yeah. She’s a real Ferdinand the Bull — I’ve actually never read that — but she’s just so big and clumsy and hurts people, but then really wants to be kind. Like she wants to be going against her nature. Anyway. It’s really sweet.

Drew: Ferdinand the Bull is a really good story. You should … if you have any younger cousins or any children in your life, Ferdinand the Bull is a really sweet kids’ book.

Riese: Yeah. Or you could have a baby. Just quit your job, get married.

Analyssa: Don’t get promoted.

Riese: Have a baby, read them Ferdinand the Bull.

Analyssa: Perfect.

Riese: That’s a life that a person could live right there. And that’s not a bad one as lives go.

Drew: It is. I do want to move on to the next scene because it’s my favorite scene that’s ever happened in the history of visual mediums.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s important.

Drew: So Bette’s ranting to Gigi about her job. And Gigi’s like … because she’s like, “He’s using me,” and Gigi’s like, “Well, use him back.”

Riese: I thought it was really nice that we had a scene where Bette has a partner who she can talk to about racial microaggressions, because we have not seen that at all. She’s always kind of been not really with someone she can talk to about any of that.

Analyssa: That’s a really good point. And Gigi does kind of instantly get the dynamics at play.

Riese: Exactly.

Analyssa: Instead of … yeah.

Drew: This was the best sex scene ever.

Riese: Tell us more.

Drew: Okay. I can just read my notes cause I actually realized that they’re pretty … So basically I just have in all caps, “GIGI LICKING BETTE’S BOOBS.” Then, new note, all caps, “GIGI SAYING, ‘WAIT.’ New note, all caps, “TOP OFF.”

Riese: Top off!

Drew: New note, “Bette biting her tongue.” I say in all caps “OGM” but I think I meant to write “OMG.”

Riese: You were just all mixed up inside?

Analyssa: So discombobulated.

Drew: Yeah. New note, “I literally screamed in this hotel room,” which is true. I was in the hotel in Ohio and…

Riese: Nothing like that has ever happened in that hotel before.

Drew: I fully screamed. No, I’m pretty sure that there’s been some screaming in that hotel. I can actually say for certain. Anyways, so I … what are you going to do in Ohio? You’re bored. I actually think there’s probably more chaotic sex that happens in that hotel than anywhere else. Because what else are you going to do in Cincinnati?

Riese: You’re right.

Drew: Except eat chili and have chaotic sex, but probably not in that order. So anyways, then my last note was just, “Uh uh, answer me,” which was in quotes because it’s what Gigi says. And then another “OMG,” but this time I actually got the lettering correct. It was just like … I often talk about how I do feel like I’m a top, but a top how wants to be with other tops. And I’ve had people be like, “Oh, that sounds like a lot of like wrestling or it just sounds like a lot of…” And I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, absolutely.” It was … and this was exactly, when watching this, I was like, yes, this. Do you not see the appeal of this?

Analyssa: And they literally do wrestle. They kind of like grapple with…

Drew: It’s extremely hot.

Riese: It’s great. I had a great time watching. In my head, when I think of two tops having sex, I think of that scene in season five where they were running through potential hookups for Lez Girls and they had Bette and Helena just kind of wrestling each other in their big 2008 pants. And that’s, to me … but this is like, it’s actually happening. And I also really appreciated that they really took time with just some very erotic kisses, that that can be a whole genre that is actually… Usually they just rush in to the fucking.

Analyssa: Yeah. These two people are really good at kissing each other by the way.

Riese: Yeah. It’s nice.

Analyssa: Great kissing. Which I think Bette realized on their date when … because she … they do the first kiss—

Riese: Oh, yeah, that’s true.

Analyssa: And then she kind of pulls back and looks at Gigi like, “what the fuck?” And then kisses her again. So I think she also knows. They’re good at kissing.

Drew: This was good. And I am happy that it happened and it really… Any doubts that I’ve had about The L Word, about The L Word: Generation Q, I just want to say that they were … it was all made okay by this.

Riese: In this moment, everything …

Analyssa: That meme of Lindsay Lohan being like, “I never said that. Paris is my friend,” is true right now. “I never said that. Gen Q is my friend.”

Riese: Great. Well, speaking of people who’ve had sex with Gigi.

Analyssa:Great, great transition.

Drew: I really love it.

Analyssa: This one is going to be less fun though, sadly.

Drew: Yeah. This actually is … Alice gets home, Nat’s asleep, her favorite hobby, sleeping.

Riese: Sleeping with a laptop.

Analyssa: Okay, as someone who is very sleepy, I stand with Nat. People sleep! I don’t know. Whatever. My notes literally say, “Alice, people sleep.” I was so mad on Nat’s behalf. Anyway, that’s not the point. Well, actually it is.

Riese: It kind of is the point.

Analyssa: It is. It is the point.

Drew: Alice tries to open Nat’s phone with Nat’s face, which first of all, isn’t going to work because that’s not how FaceID … you need your eyes to be open. And second of all, that is, I just want to say, such a deal breaker to me.

Riese: Oh, absolutely.

Drew: Like if you try to get into someone’s… you try to get into my phone, you try to get to my computer, I mean, I have nothing to hide, but if you do that, that is… no. That’s the end of whatever relationship we had. It’s such a violation. And just such a sign that you don’t trust someone and a sign that you’re not willing to trust someone or make an effort to trust someone. It’s really… it’s no good. Not good, Alice.

Analyssa: It’s also just that Alice knows that something is going on with Nat, which great. But her reaction is to snoop instead of to just do the math in your head.

Riese: Ask her.

Analyssa: Or even just do the math in your head and realize like, hmm, my girlfriends brought up for throuples and open relationships like five times in the last two days. And then she goes and cries in the bathroom. I don’t think it’s that hard. And what does she think she’s going to find on Nat’s phone?

Riese: Yeah, that’s the other thing. Nat did attempt to open a conversation with her. Nat’s a therapist. Nat fucking loves to communicate. Alice was the one who was like, “No, there’s no need to communicate if you’re not a bad person.” Alice, I’m pretty sure if you asked Nat what was up, she would literally just tell you. What are you going to find on her fucking phone?

Drew: I mean, Alice was like, “Are you okay?” and Nat was like, “I am,” when she clearly wasn’t. But also, I do think that if Alice had taken a second to be like, “Nat, I know you’re not okay, please talk to me,” Nat would have. I think it’s very clear when someone is more concerned about the relationship, and what the status of the relationship is going to mean for that person as an individual, as opposed to being concerned about your partner, because your partner is having a hard time and you’re worried about them. I think when you don’t have the capacity to go beyond yourself and be like, “Actually this might not even be about me. My partner is going through something and I want to provide support to her,” and that’s where Alice’s mind should be. It shouldn’t be like, “What’s Nat up to, how is it going to affect me?” Sometimes your partner is just going through something and you need to talk about it, and they need to talk about it. I don’t know, it’s a big bummer.

Riese: It’s a common trope these days, but only for thrillers, and crime shows, where someone’s trying to get some intel.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, look, I think it’s realistic. I think people constantly look at their partner’s phones without permission, I think it happens all the time. I think it’s bad though. Don’t do that. Stop doing that, people out there, talk to your partners, or if you don’t trust your partner, you shouldn’t be with that person.

Riese: Yeah. Speaking of original cast members giving questionable advice—

Drew: I don’t think Alice was giving advice, but I do appreciate the effort of that transition.

Riese: Thank you so much. All right. Yeah, Alice was giving… Speaking of—

Drew: Which is what people said to me in early 2017. So yeah, so Finley is getting a pep talk from Shane and Tess.

Riese: It’s cute and makes no sense.

Analyssa: It’s cute, and absolutely chaotic, and illegible.

Drew: Which I’m into. Yeah, and Finley thinks that she and Sophie would actually work as a couple, and I really liked this moment, because I do relate to that feeling sometimes, where you’re in the middle of a bunch of chaos and you’re like, “I just see a world where if there wasn’t the chaos, this would work.” It’s such a delusional thought because, no, the chaos is so ingrained in it. But there is that feeling in your stomach where you’re like, “No, but if I had just met this person in a different world… Like we had just met each other, and we both could get over our shit, we could, it could work.” And it just ignores how important timing is to relationships. It ignores that you, actually, can’t snap your fingers and be a better adjusted version of yourself, and same with the person who you’re into. I believe that Sophie and Finley could be together in a healthy way, but you’re living in a fictional world of your relationship.

Analyssa: That’s so far from the world where you have showed up to Sophie’s wedding, in front of everyone you guys know. Anyway.

Riese: But that said, another thing about this scene though, is that Finley, she doesn’t explain. She explains a little bit of what was going through her mind when she did this, most importantly that she didn’t know the wedding… She wasn’t planning on interrupting the wedding. She’s obviously an idiot and did not… I can say that because Sophie always tells her she’s stupid, but she’s obviously not — maybe she hasn’t been to a lot of lesbian weddings. She did not know that the timing would be her walking into a wedding. She thought that she would ruin it beforehand, which honestly, is a kinder, if she’s going to, you know? That’s different. It’s still not okay, but it’s still a different… And also, Sophie should have already told Dani about this to begin with, right? So is this on Finley, but also, when Alice called and said that Sophie missed her, that Finley was like, “Oh, okay! I’ll go save her. She obviously wants me back, but can’t say anything because she’s trapped with Dani.” It makes a little bit more sense, what was going through Finley’s mind at the time. Then the joke about her hat was really cute.

Finley: I didn’t think I was walking into the actual, real wedding. In a hat. I walked in a fucking hat!
Shane: I know, we were there.

Drew: When she walked in the door, though, she could have been like, “Oh, this is happening! Oh no, I’m going to sit down.” I will say that of all the people who did wrong, definitely Finley did not handle this well, but she’s not high on my list. I even think that Micah was, I mean obviously he was less chaotic, but I do think morally Micah’s more in the wrong than Finley in this whole situation, of not telling his best friend about this, versus Finley being the one who was like, “You shouldn’t get married!” I mean, that was what I was doing while they were getting married. I was shouting at my TV, “Um, excuse me! Finley’s in love with you and I think you’re in love with her too.” So Finley was just saying what everybody should have been saying a good two months earlier? Is the timeframe, I think, I’m going to exist in? And Shane laughs and says that the whole thing is Alice’s fault, and that killed me.

Riese: Oh, and also, we find out that Finley got sober over the summer, which, I don’t know why I’m thinking she took a summer vacation. Well, because Alice’s show was on hiatus, so I assumed it was the summer.

Drew:Yeah, I think it was the summer.

Riese: And then they decide to give Finley a job, because Finley’s now unemployed.

Drew: Which is nice, I liked that development. Even though I don’t necessarily know if working at a bar and underground poker game is really the healthiest place for Finley at this point in her life?

Analyssa: I don’t know that Finley will be very good at this either, she’s kind of bumbling. It’s a lot easier, I think, to be a bumbling set PA, than it is to be a bumbling bartender. That’s just my guess having not done the bartender job. And then…

Riese: Speaking of Finley. How’s that?

Analyssa: That was great.

Drew: Yeah, she sure is in that next scene.

Analyssa: She’s in the next scene also.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So she goes back to Dani and Sophie’s, or whoever’s house it is now.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Micah and—

Analyssa: Micah’s there.

Drew: Micah’s house.

Analyssa: And she and Micah have, I thought, a really sweet conversation. Finley, again, trying to be kind to everyone is like, “Micah, you’re not the Finley.” Then Micah is like, “Well, that was kind of fucked up also.”

Riese: Yeah. Finley’s like, “I know I fucked up. And I know everyone’s mad at me and hates me.” Then Micah’s like—

Micah: You’re really hard not to love.

Riese: And that was really cute.

Analyssa: That was really sweet.

Riese: And then.

Drew: Needle drop!

Riese: What the fuck!? What were they doing? Who let this happen? Is this legal? I don’t know if it’s legal?

Analyssa: Why was this the needle drop?

Riese: I don’t know if this is legal.

Drew: So then, “Driver’s License” plays. I will say, the thing that bothered me most about it was, that when the song starts playing, we’re with Finley to begin with. I was like, “Wait a second. Finley is not Olivia…” Olivia being Olivia Rodrigo, “Is not Olivia in this scenario. She is literally ‘that blonde girl.’” So then when we cut to Dani being a mess, I was like—

Riese: That makes sense.

Drew: This song is working for me better. It still is a move to use the most popular song of the moment in your montage. The thing is though, is that the way that I feel every time “Driver’s License” plays, where I go, “This is a really great song. I think it really deserves to be as famous as it is.” I felt that while watching it too. I don’t necessarily think that it was the best artistic choice, but I do think that it felt the way it does when it comes on shuffle for me, where I go, “This song. Pretty good song. Pretty good song.”

Analyssa: It had the effect, more to me, of seeing your teacher outside of school. Sorry, these are different universes.

Riese: Yeah, because the song became popular during quarantine, and specifically on TikTok, it was really big. So it felt like this was my private song, for me, in my bed at one in the morning watching TikTok, than it was a public song that I might hear in the middle of the fucking L Word.

Analyssa: Yeah, for The L Word: Gen Q to spring on me.

Riese: And then I obviously had to cry.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Dani doesn’t cry though, Dani pukes on her long run.

Riese: Oh man. Her run, and having all those flashbacks, I was like, “Oh God, that’s so painful. That’s just so painful.” I thought that was really well done. It really showed Dani’s character and also what she’s going through.

Drew: Yeah, I was into that. And again, it even worked with me with the song, when we were with Dani. I’m sure Dani’s listening to Sour, I mean truly, who has earned the right to listen to Sour more than Dani at this point?

Riese: I don’t know what that is.

Drew: Sour is Olivia Rodrigo’s album.

Riese: Oh.

Drew: Have you not listened to the whole album?

Riese: Yeah, of course I have. But I wasn’t looking at my Spotify, I was keeping my eyes on the road.

Drew: I famously don’t drive.

Analyssa: Famously.

Riese: Famously.

Drew: I mean, I do drive. I just don’t have a car in LA. So I listened to it a lot.

Riese: Once you get it, you’ll be able to drive by your ex’s house.

Drew: When that album came out, I was like, “Ah, I really wish that I could get into a relationship and then get my heart broken, then I could really be into this.”

Riese: Listen to it, yeah!

Analyssa: I just project myself into bad relationships that I’ve been in as a younger person.

Riese: I know, I’ve been re-mourning so many breakups through this album, while also thinking, “You just got your driver’s license and you already think that you have had the love of your life slip out of your fingers? Come on.”

Drew: That’s how it feels when you’re that age!

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: That’s how it feels! I respect it, and I support that very emotional, adolescent Pisces in all of her future endeavors.

Analyssa: She’s a Pisces? That makes so much sense.

Drew: Uh, yeah!

Analyssa: So Tess and Shane are really vibing. Tess thinks that Shane is sweet after this conversation with Finley, and she says it, like, 16 times in this conversation. Keeps saying the word sweet, which has to be, A, the first time anyone’s ever called Shane that and, B, the record for how many times anyone’s called Shane that.

Drew: I think Shane is sweet.

Analyssa: I think so too. I don’t think she’s not.

Drew: She’s a very good friend.

Analyssa: I just don’t think that’s what people are calling Shane.

Riese: I have a complaint.

Analyssa: What’s your complaint?

Drew: What?

Riese: In this scene, Tess opens up emotionally to Shane about her mother having MS. Then she says Shane needs to open up to her, and Shane uses that opportunity to share a very uninteresting fact. In fact, one that, as a co-worker, as somebody who is running this bar with her, should probably know anyway, there’s nothing emotional about it, about her needing the money, or something, from this. Number two, I actually don’t believe her. I actually don’t believe that Quiara would get half of her everything when Quiara is this very successful performer on her own. I also don’t believe that that means Shane now has no hope but an underground poker game.

Analyssa: Yeah, that was where I got stuck.

Riese: It was just stupid.

Analyssa: You think that the money-making opportunity here is to run an underground poker game?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Famously you can lose a lot of money in really high stakes poker games.

Drew: I think that sometimes, I’ve learned, rich people think that they’re broke when they just have slightly less money, and they like to be dramatic about it. So that didn’t actually bother me that much. Also, because Shane can be emotionally closed off, this did feel like a confession. It all checked out for me, even if it was annoying. I understand your complaint, but that’s more of a complaint I have with Shane McCutcheon, and not a complaint I have with the writing of Shane, you know what I mean?

Riese: I wanted her to be like, “I never had a hamster, but I did have a pet fish,” and then be like, “And also, I burned down Wax.”

Drew: Yeah. That’s still not canon to me. I can’t get on board with that. I think that’s just so wild. Tess says that Shane is like a sweet, feral cat.

Riese: So many cats. I’m allergic to this episode.

Drew: Finley is a kitten on the highway and Shane is a sweet, feral cat. I always thought that Shane and Finley had a little bit of, there’s some symmetry there, so that works. That works for me. Speaking of people who are sweet, Micah is telling Dani that she could forgive Sophie, that is an option. He says that she has all the power and that she can forgive if she wants to forgive. Which, I really don’t want her to because they were not working.

Analyssa: I think this is good friend advice.

Drew: No, it’s great friend advice.

Analyssa: It’s really good modeling.

Riese: She is also mean to him.

Analyssa: She is so mean to him. I think she’s just, like I said, she’s leading with anger. She is mad at everyone. I would be sad. I would be in my bed and speaking to no one. You would, effectively, not hear from me for weeks. But she’s like, “I want to yell at everyone.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: I, still, am very much mad at Micah for… Because I just think that sometimes people who are nice, are conflict averse. Then you feel like they’re not harming you, but actually, they… This is just, I don’t know. Maybe it’s bringing up specific things for me, but I do think Micah really fucked this one up.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’s obviously not his fault the way it’s Sophie’s fault, but I get Dani having some anger. But this was really nice. This was nice advice and I’m glad that they’re reconciling. I don’t think that Dani needs to hold a grudge, but I understand her initially being angry at Micah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I don’t think it’s out of line. I would also be like… Yeah. The only other thing I want to say about Micah is that I love that everyone cares about Sophie’s family, and their dishware, so much. He’s like, “That belongs to Sophie’s grandma, don’t be mean!”

Riese: Yeah, mind the pottery.

Analyssa: Which I thought was very sweet.

Drew: Yeah, that is sweet.

Analyssa: Okay. We missed, I think there’s a scene somewhere in here, where Alice invites Sophie to this poker game that’s about to happen, and that’s fine. The point is, now we’re at the social event of the season, this underground lesbian poker game, which is just Shane’s friends, coming to hang out and play poker, but spending thousands of dollars on it.

Riese: Both of Gigi’s boobs are at the table.

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: Great shirt.

Analyssa: Great, she, oh, I can’t. Whatever.

Drew: I’m in love with her.

Analyssa: I think I’m in love with her. It’s actually difficult for me to watch scenes that she’s in. But, Bette, Gigi, and Alice are all sitting at one table. Sophie is at the table. Finley is bartending. This is just—

Drew: Chaos.

Riese: A recipe for delight, in the worst way possible.

Drew: Gay-os.

Riese: Yeah, this is gay-os!

Analyssa: This is akin to the campfire episode that we talked about last time. It’s just everyone in one room—

Riese: In a circle.

Analyssa: All looking at each other and we all have to talk.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Okay, so Bette’s being a little bit judgy about Sophie. And I was mad, but not as mad as I will be! But first, we get Maribel and Micah being cute.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yes, oh my God. It’s almost like they’re falling madly in love, and they’re going to bone, and they’re going to be together, and it’s going to be so cute. And I’m going to be so excited for everyone, especially me, and also them. These fictional characters who I have an investment in for some reason.

Analyssa: They have such a fun little banter, I loved it.

Riese: Yeah, because she teases, she makes him laugh. She teases him in a way that I think is really cute. And I just like her character so much.

Analyssa: Yeah. I think she’s great.

Drew: I mean, the reason why I’m invested in it is because they’re two characters that were underwritten in the first season. It would be nice if having a relationship together would mean that they could both have richer storylines that could let the actors do what they can do.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Yes, agreed.

Drew: It makes total sense that you’re excited about it. Even beyond your prediction being right, which is always a very satisfying thing to happen.

Riese: I love fucking being right.

Drew: Yeah. Going back to the poker game, I have to file a complaint now. And we know that I love Bette, that I’m a Bette defender.

Riese: Absolutely.

Drew: But the problem is, that Bette has done one thing in her entire life that I have never forgiven her for — which is saying something, because she’s actually done quite a few things in her life. But the one thing she’s done in her life, that I have not forgiven her for, is cheating on Jodi with Tina. I’m aware that when the original series was on, and I was three years old or however old I was.

Riese: I was 75.

Drew: Yeah. When Riese was 75 and I was three, I know that there were a lot of Bettina shippers who just did not care how many bodies were left behind as we were getting them back together, which is just a wild stance to have, but again, I’m not judging.

Riese: If you’re a Bettina shipper and you like this podcast, that’s fine. We love and respect you.

Drew: It’s a safe space, but.

Analyssa: This is a safe space, but.

Drew: I love you, I don’t necessarily respect you.

Analyssa: Drew’s on a little tear right now.

Drew: But I… No, obviously it’s fine. I’m a Bette-Alice shipper, I’m insane. But I was so mad about that happening. So, the fact that Bette is being a bitch to Sophie, and being like, “How could anyone ever do anything like this?” And then, on top of that, when Shane’s like, “Um, excuse me, you’ve done things wrong.” She’s like—

Bette: I cheated on Tina 17 years ago, and I will regret it for the rest of my life.

Drew: And I’m like, “You also cheated on Jodi!” You also fucked your TA! The amount of bad things you’ve done, Bette—

Riese: If we could itemize for a second. Number one, she cheated on Alice with Tina, who was in a relationship with a man. Two, she cheated on Tina with the carpenter. Three, she hooked up with her TA, which is incredibly inappropriate. Four, she started dating another teacher at her university, which is already a little bit ethically cloudy, and then cheated on her. And it’s not even, just, that she cheated on Jodi with Tina, but she kept Jodi around.

Drew: Oh, she had a full affair.

Riese: Yeah, as she was figuring shit out with Tina, and that is fucked up. There’s lots of hard parts about being cheated on, but in my opinion, the hardest part is, sort of, the gaslighting. This denial of the reality that you’re living in, and you start to feel crazy. You start to feel weird, like something’s off, but they keep saying nothing’s off. That is fucked up. So there’s that and then, even in this series, she was dating a colleague who she kept seeing secretly, even though it was kind of disrespectful of people in her campaign, who were working really hard for her. And I don’t relate to all of her bad decisions, but I understand that we all are people who’ve made mistakes, and I’ve made quite a few, which is why I would never sit at a table and be all holier than thou towards Sophie! Ever! Ever.

Drew: Yeah, exactly. That’s the thing is that, the only reason we need to list these things off is because she is asking for it, by being like, “I made this one mistake 17 years ago,” and it’s like, no, no.

Riese: No.

Drew: No, no. You are a serial cheater.

Riese: Are we supposed to think that Bette is only sharing that one anecdote because she’s trying to hide the other ones? Or did everyone forget that that’s what happened?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I couldn’t tell.

Drew: I think it’s that… A lot of other people at that table know, they could have called her out on it.

Analyssa: Yeah, but I think Bette’s narrative, in her brain, is actually… Especially with the Carrie thing happening right now. Her thought about herself, and her life story is like, “If I had never cheated on Tina that one time, actually, none of this would have happened, and we would still be together and happy.” That is genuinely, I think, what she thinks.

Riese: Oh yeah. That was the fork in the road.

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s the big, overarching thing that has happened.

Riese: Also, Tina just had a miscarriage. I forgot to add that to the—

Drew: Right. I think Bette is narrativizing her life in a way that is not healthy, but makes sense, where she’s like, “Tina was my life, and so cheating on Alice to be with Tina? That’s morally okay, because it got me with Tina. Cheating on Jodi to get back with Tina was okay, because I never really left Tina.” It’s these series of things where it’s like, “No, no, no. Those are also people. Those are also people who were hurt in your pursuit of your Ross and Rachel.” I know that some people, maybe, were on board, and were like, “Bette and Tina endgame,” whatever else happens doesn’t matter.

Riese: I was on board, if we’re being honest. I was really into it.

Drew: And that’s fine. But, it is just this thing where in the real life of the universe, those are real people who have real feelings, and you deeply hurt them. So anyways.

Riese: And Jodi was poly before she met Bette, and wanted to have an open relationship.

Drew: Yeah, she wanted to be open! The worst. Awful. Alice wins the poker game and, you know what? I don’t think Alice has ever really cheated, so good for her. I mean she got close. She got close.

Riese: Oh yeah, she almost hooked up with the girl from Heavenly Creatures. The fashion designer, when they wore matching outfits on that little scooter.

Analyssa: On the little scooter!

Drew: Yeah, but she didn’t. So…

Analyssa: The only other thing I have to say is that, sadly for me, this scene confirmed a little bit more my kinship with Alice. Because, I too used to drink like one beer, and then show everyone my cards, and be like, “This is good, right?” And they’re like, “That’s not how you play cards.” Anyway.

Riese: I thought you were being metaphorical there.

Analyssa: Nope. Sadly, no. Just absolutely, literally showing physical cards to people.

Drew: Alice may not have ever cheated, but she’s still not a perfect partner, because Nat comes out to her as polyamorous and Alice is terrible about it.

Riese: Furious.

Analyssa: Alice is really bad at this. This is no good.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But there’s also another thing that happens, that’s also not good, in this scene. Which is that, Nat’s like—

Alice: Okay.
Nat: It’s no different than you being bi.
Alice: What?!
Nat: Yeah. I’m poly and you’re bi.
Alice: That is not the same!
Nat: It’s actually exactly the same. It’s parts of our identities that need to be explored.

Drew: Which, there’s a way that that could have been said.

Riese: Exactly.

Drew: But it was certainly not said, the way that it should have been said. I don’t know if we’re supposed to think it was said in the way it should have been said, but there’s just so many reasons why that is not a fair equivalency, because someone’s bisexuality does not actually impact their monogamous relationship, if they’re in a monogamous relationship. Whereas, if someone is polyamorous and wants to pursue that, as opposed to, “Oh yes, I’m generally poly, but I’m in a monogamous relationship because I want to make that compromise,” if someone is, “I’m poly and I want to explore that,” that actually does impact the other person in a monogamous partnership. So there’s a line of thinking of, “I have this side of myself. Why are you being judgmental? You know how people in the queer community can be judgmental to people who have experiences that are outside of the norm.” There’s that way of saying it. That’s not what she said.

Riese: Or that it’s something that is intrinsic to just her, like it’s part of who she is, and she can’t change it. She can’t talk herself out of being poly any more than Alice could talk herself out of being bi. It just is who she is, which I think is different than what they say, which is…

Drew: Right. So, not the best, especially considering the show has not the best history with talking about bisexuality. I didn’t love that this was how it was phrased. It was just, “Oh boy,” you know? But remember when Bette and Gigi had that sex scene earlier? That was really good. That was like a real good sex scene.

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: I loved that Nat… I think it’s fun, though, that they’re making Nat the one who’s figuring out that she’s poly, because she seems sort of straight-laced compared to a lot of the other characters, you know?

Drew: Yeah. Totally. Totally.

Riese: And so I feel like that’s an interesting thing to do, but… And then Alice was like, “But I haven’t been interested in any men or looked at any men” or something. I’m like, “What are you talking about? What’s happening?” It was very confusing. But also, props to Nat, who somehow wants to have a full-time job, two kids, a relationship, and other relationships.

Analyssa: And Gigi in her life, taking on so much stuff.

Riese: Exactly. They say women can’t do it all, but Nat’s ready to do it all.

Analyssa: Nat wants to do it all. She’s gotten her hair color touched up for this season. She’s ready to take on the world.

Riese: She sure is.

Analyssa: I love that for her. I don’t think Alice and Nat belong together, but I do like when they’re happy together, because they are fun to be around. Those two actresses, I say this every episode, but Leisha Hailey and Stephanie Allynne are just so fun and quippy and on it, that it makes me sad when they’re sad together.

Drew: Also, I don’t know, I’m just so confused. I feel Alice definitely had a lot of feelings and got really attached and definitely had jealousy and et cetera, et cetera. But also she was pretty fun and sexually adventurous. I don’t really understand this either last season, her being anti-throuple, or this season being anti-poly in general. It doesn’t feel like a necessary… It’s also just this thing where I do sometimes think that fighting is just a really easy way to have conflict and that there are actually other ways to have it. If Nat and Alice were poly and both on board for that, conflicts could arise that aren’t, “We vehemently disagree with each other on the very nature of our relationship.” They could just be smaller conflicts that could be really interesting to explore and play in. I do think sometimes this show, in both iterations, has a tendency to be like, “Every conflict must be the biggest thing that it can be.” And sometimes it actually isn’t the more interesting choice. Again, I get it’s a soap opera, so it’s fine to make it big, but I think if we could get more group sex… Fighting isn’t the only way to make things big. So, I’m just saying, you can also add people to a sex scene.

Analyssa: That’s bigger. That’s big.

Drew: That could be big. Much bigger.

Riese: And it’s also, with these characters, we have this history for all of them. They have this long history and it feels like they’re really resistant to bring to bear upon anything, which is so confusing to me, because that’s such a great place to go into a show. You have all these people you’re creating from scratch and these other people who have this known history. Bette did cheat on Alice. Alice did lose Dana to Lara and then Dana died. Alice was with Tasha who then kind of fell for Jamie a little bit. Alice has this history that could explain why, even if in her mind, Alice exploring my portals season, that kind of sexually adventurous person just can’t do non-monogamy because they just have too much baggage from other relationships, I’m sure especially Dana. We didn’t see that because it was between seasons, but that would have been so, so hard, because I’m sure there was a period of time when she was like, “Okay, I’m just going to trust her to hang out with Laura and that’s totally fine.” And then was like, “I guess it’s really not,” but she doesn’t mention any of that.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Right. That’s a really good point. Yeah. I don’t know why the show is so resistant to take… I mean, I’m aware that we all know the original series more than maybe the average viewer, but you don’t need… Even if people don’t come in with that context memorized, you can still reference that context, the same way that you can write character backstories, even if you’ve never had a prequel.

Riese: I know I talk about my exes constantly, and more than the average person, for sure, but it’s egregious, especially when… last season I had the same feeling, when that throuple was happening. Like, “This would be a time to talk about what happened with Tasha and Jamie. This isn’t your first rodeo.”

Drew: Right. Well, the fights continue, as Dani goes to see Sophie. And it’s like, “Oh, is she going to take Micah’s advice and forgive?” And let me tell you, that’s not what’s happening.

Analyssa: Absolutely not.

Drew: Sophie begs her to forgive her and Dani’s like, “Nope.” And Dani’s right, because it’s not that you can’t come back from cheating or breaking of trust or anything, but the level that this got to, she can’t get back. I mean, there’s just no world where she could get back together with Sophie and it would be healthy at all. I don’t see that. The balance is so off. I don’t see how it could possibly happen.

Riese: Yeah. And also the wedding, because they’re both very wedding-, family-, marriage-focused people. I think that was one of the things they had in common, is they both have that desire for this monogamous marriage and relationship pretty early in their lives. But if they were going to get back together, would they try to get married again? Because if I were Dani, I would just have a panic attack that whole time thinking, “Oh my God, this is somebody who might have cheated on me.” Would Sophie have ever cheated on Dani again? No, but—

Analyssa: But you’re always going to be thinking like… Is this the scene where Dani is like, “It was the night that you cried in our bed?”

Riese: Oh, right. Yeah.

Analyssa: Any time Sophie comes home crying, you’re going to be like, “Okay, is this it?” Once you’ve put those pieces together and come up with the—

Riese: Full puzzle.

Analyssa: “This big thing happened on these big events of our life.” You’re right, it seems impossible to build back up to like, “Okay, we’re going to happily get married. We can never go to Hawaii again, first of all.”

Riese: Yeah, that whole state’s off the map.

Analyssa: That whole state is just ruined for Dani. There’s just so many things that just won’t… Anyway.

Drew: I mean, the harsh truth is that Dani is going to be haunted by this in all of her future relationships. It’s not even a matter of, if she got back with Sophie, would she be haunted by this? It’s like, of course she would be, because the next time she’s with anybody, those scars live on. That level of hurt, that level of betrayal, you don’t just bounce back from that. And so, you can’t dwell. So, I don’t know. I mean, I think the thing about making Sophie really in the wrong is that I was so team Sophie in the first season and now I’m warming up to Dani in a way that’s fun, because I want to like all of our friends. And Dani makes the right choice here, and then Dani makes another right choice, because she goes to Bette’s and gives her a hug. And I don’t know what happens after that. Probably nothing, but it’s still nice. It’s still a good choice.

Analyssa: But it’s not nothing.

Riese: That was so nice. I was really excited and happy that she did that.

Analyssa: And Sophie gets to cry with her family, too. I just thought there was some good… This was really shitty and sad and they both have something to lean on, which is nice.

Riese: Yeah. And also it’s nice that she got to lean on Bette. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah, especially Bette. Yeah.

Riese: Because it is kind of like a power move when you go over to the city’s top lesbian and she will embrace you.

Analyssa: Yeah, like the the city’s queen lesbian.

Riese: Yeah. And you’re probably still kind of attracted to her, and even if nothing happens, at least you’re like, “I’m in Bette Porter’s arms.” And that in and of itself is a win, regardless of context.

Analyssa: And Bette Porter’s in a robe, too.

Riese: Yeah, she’s in a robe.

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Riese: Probably a really expensive robe.

Analyssa: It probably feels really nice. You know?

Riese: Yeah. She’s probably like, “Let’s get you out of this robe and into my dreams.”

Drew: Yeah. Everything’s really shaking out the way that I personally wanted it to, because Sophie goes home and sees Finley and then she asks Finley to stay. So maybe something’s going to happen there too.

Analyssa: They’re doing this full dance around each other. I think you’re right, Riese. It’s like Sophie can’t really be like, “Okay, great. I’m just going to do the Finley thing,” because that’s insane. That is bad optics, if she’s just like—

Riese: Right. Then you’re the bad couple. You’re the ones who cheated and messed everything up, and now you’re with each other. It’s difficult. Yeah.

Analyssa: And now you’re happy? That’s no good.

Drew: Okay, here’s my crazy stance, though, that I know everyone disagrees with me on. If I’m Dani, I would want Sophie and Finley to be together.

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: Because if they got together, I’d be like, “Oh, so you were actually, there was something here. It was meaningful.” If they don’t, then it’s like, “Wow, you blew up our lives for nothing. You have so little respect for me that a fuck with our friend was worth destroying me.” If it’s like, “Oh, you spent three years in a relationship with this person,” I’m like, “Okay, well I guess it was worth it to you.”

Drew: Someone in high school who really, really hurt me, the person who they started dating right after that, they’re married now. And I’m like, “Well, I was never going to marry you, so I’m glad that you made that choice, and I really do forgive you for bailing on me at prom.” Because I’m like, “You fully have a husband now with this boy we went to high school with.” So, I love that. I do understand that the side eyes would be pretty intense, but if it’s real, that means more.

Riese: Yeah, I think you’re right.

Analyssa: That’s really mature of you. If I were Dani, I’d want neither of them to be happy ever again.

Riese: I would want them to be together, because I’d be like… At least once I got better… Because Dani’s going to find someone else who’s better for her. You know what I mean? Dani’s going to find someone who’s better for her and she’ll be happy. She’s got a lot going for her. But once I got out of that fog, I would be like, “I do care about Sophie and I do want her to be happy.” You know what I mean?

Drew: Right.

Riese: But I relate to that too, when something happened, and where, when two people get together and I’m like, “Why are you doing this? Why are you fucking up all of this shit for this whatever, this stupid relationship or…” But also, I will say being on the other side of that, where you’re the one who’s in a relationship that came out of a lot of drama, it puts a lot of pressure on you to have the relationship be good, and you deserve it. You deserve to have to grapple with that pressure because you did fuck up. I’m saying “you,” and I was in a relationship like that once. It’s a lot of pressure.

Drew: Sophie’s figuring it out, but what she wants, like Drew said earlier, is for Finley to stay.

Sophie: Don’t go.
Finley: Don’t go?
Sophie: I want you to stay. Goodnight.

Riese: Which is the big ending.

Drew: And that’s the episode! I liked this episode a lot.

Analyssa: I liked this one too.

Drew: I was clear I wasn’t a big fan of the premiere, and this episode really had a lot. Did it have things that bothered me? Absolutely, but the good stuff was so good, and I just found it all to be really entertaining. And even the stuff that bothered me, I enjoyed… The bisexual line and the Micah comparing transness with being married, those two moments, I was like, “Maybe not.”

Riese: And Bette’s denial of her…

Drew: Well, even that, that bothered me, but I was screaming at the TV on Jodi’s behalf. It’s not something that I feel deeply serious about. It’s just I love Jodi, you know? So overall — and it had the best sex scene ever. Again. I think we should talk about that. So, I liked it.

Analyssa: In Kayla’s “Which L Word Character Would Destroy Your Life?” or whatever, I did get Jodi. So I’m—

Drew: I got Jodi, too!

Riese: I got Bette.

Drew: I got Jodi. Who did you get?

Riese: I got Bette.

Drew: That checks out.

Riese: But I think that actually Bette would destroy my life from the inside. I don’t think Bette would destroy me. I think I would become Bette and destroy myself. Does that make sense at all?

Analyssa: Yeah. I really liked this episode. I liked the high drama. I know it’s the most fought-in episode of all time. I kind of liked — to Drew’s point from last week, that things are building to a new place instead of… This is like the tower episode. Everything has to crumble so that they can all come back up.

Riese: Right. It’s like in season four of The L Word original series, that’s when suddenly everyone was single for a minute. I think maybe Tina was with Henry, but everyone else was single.

Analyssa: That doesn’t count.

Drew: Being with Henry is being single.

Riese: Yeah, being with Henry is being single. And that’s when a lot of fun stuff… And I think that it seems kind of where we’re heading with a lot of these people, where they’re single, but these things are sort of building. And that’s exciting, because I think that the show opening last season with Sophie and Dani were together and Alice and Nat were together, there wasn’t as much… And Shane and Quiara were still together. They were poly! They had an open relationship! How did Alice not…

Analyssa: It’s so unclear.

Riese: What?

Analyssa: I think this is a thing about Alice, though, which I remembered from our last episode where I was like, “Why would Alice be mad about this Gigi thing?” It’s just a part of her personality where she’s like, “This is fine in theory, and then as soon as it gets into my home, it’s absolutely not fine.”

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair.

Analyssa: And it’s like, okay, I guess, but apply the theory to your own home. It just is kind of frustrating.

Drew: And does she think Shane is a bad person?

Analyssa: Right. Or Quiara?

Drew: Yeah. She said, “Only bad people are non-monogamous.”

Analyssa: Alice has to be problematic every season of The L Word. She has to have some thing that she’s mad about, and you’re like, “Why are you mad about this? This is not correct.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: But overall, I was thrilled.

Riese: Me too.

Drew: This is what I want from Gen Q, pretty much, and I’m excited for this. By the time this comes out, the episode will be on Showtime, on the website. That means that whenever anyone wants to, they can just scroll to… I didn’t write down the timestamp, but whatever the timestamp. We’ll put it in the show notes. We’ll put the timestamp in the show notes for you. Yeah, pretty fun. Pretty good stuff.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at [email protected]. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Leave a message, give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Riese: I picked for my L word “Lost” kitten on the highway, because that was Finley’s vibe in this episode, and I respect it.

Analyssa: I picked “Lounge” wear.

Riese: Are you thinking about the robe?

Analyssa: I’m thinking about the robe.

Riese: Slipping off the little robe?

Analyssa: … and Gigi and Bette, and Nat is very sleepy. There’s a lot of lounge wear, lounging stuff, which is important to me as a lazy person.

Riese: Who felt seen?

Drew: Another great L word.

Riese: That’s great.

Analyssa: Another great L word, lazy.

Drew: My L word is “Licking,” as in, licking, comma, Gigi Bette’s boobs. Yeah, that’s all I have to say about that. I think I’ve said enough.

Analyssa: All right. Well…

Drew: Here’s to many more sex scenes with the two of them or—

Riese: Other people.

Drew: Bette and Dani. We’ve really been blessed with… Here’s the thing that The L Word does well. Tops.

Riese: Hops?

Drew: Tops. Tops.

Riese: Oh, tops. Yeah. There’s no top shortage on The L Word, that’s for sure. It’s a myth. It’s a myth.

Analyssa: I feel like I stopped hearing about the top shortage.

Drew: There was no top shortage.

Analyssa: I wasn’t really present in the discourse for a while.

Riese: It was present in the discourse for a while, yeah. It was so present that I decided to do a massive survey of all of our readers to find out if there really was a top shortage.

Drew: Wait, really? Wait, I don’t remember that. What did we find?

Riese: There is.

Analyssa: There is a top shortage.

Riese: No, but the main thing that I found is that most people are switches. The vast majority of people are switches, and that more dramatically, there’s a dom shortage. The comparisons of tops to bottoms was a little bit skewed towards bottoms. But the sub to doms was incredibly skewed towards subs.

Drew: That checks out.

Analyssa: Interesting.

Riese: So, get out there and get your tops off on your yogurts.

Drew: This is the kind of science you can expect from us at To L and Back.

Riese: It sure is. We love science.

Analyssa: We love science here.

Riese: Science cast. Next week, more on Russian dictators, or Russian leaders, depending on how you feel about communism.

Analyssa: Bye.

Drew: Bye.

Riese: Drew loves communism.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at [email protected]. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Leave a message, give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new TLAB Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think the new logo looks pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by ME, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa and on Twitter @analoca_. And you can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com.

Ok, so to end this episode, we are going to do something a little different. Usually we end with a random L word that has little significance to the episode we just recapped, which obviously was great, but for this season we are mixing it up! We are going to bring a little bit more intention to our L words. So Riese, why don’t you explain how this is going to work!

Riese: So at the end of the episode, instead of all saying an L word at the same time, we are just going to say a specific L word that we choose, because it is specifically related to how we feel about the episode in some manner. And today we’re going to use L words that say how we feel about the season upcoming.

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Analyssa is a co-host of the To L and Back podcast: Gen Q edition. She lives in LA, works at a TV studio, and can often be found binge-watching an ABC drama from 2008. You can follow her on Twitter, Instagram, or her social media of choice, Letterboxd.

Analyssa has written 58 articles for us.


  1. Question: Is the ring that Dani flushed down the toilet THE SAME ONE THAT WAS SOPHIE’S GREAT-GRANDMOTHER’S?
    I’m rewatching the episode last season where Sophie gives Dani the ring and it really looks like it but I can’t tell for sure…

  2. Whew the opinion that Alice should just be onboard with non monogamy with no doubts is a bit unhinged! Even in queer community so many people still have monogamous (successful or not) relationships – the take that someone is inherently boring or wrong for not jumping on non monogamy seems reflective of somehow a veryyyyy specific pov.

    • Oh I don’t think we hold the opinion that she should be on board immediately with no doubts, it’s more that it’s very surprising (and honestly, kind of disappointing, to me personally) to hear that Alice’s immediate reaction to a conversation about non-monogamy is to say that non-monogamy is “only for the bad people”

  3. Whew the opinion that Alice should just be onboard with non monogamy with no doubts is a bit unhinged! Even in queer community so many people still have monogamous (successful or not) relationships – the take that someone is inherently boring or wrong for not jumping on non monogamy seems reflective of somehow a veryyyyy specific pov.

  4. I am here, 3 months after this was posted because I only just saw this episode (I’m in the UK) so probably no one will see this comment, to defend Micah!

    As I understood it in the previous episode he only found out about Sophie and Finley at the rehearsal dinner when Maribel told him, less than 24hrs before the wedding. He immediately told Sophie she had to tell Dani, and Sophie promised that she would. And then he gave her time to do it, because obviously it’s better if it comes from Sophie, and then the wedding was the next day! So I don’t think he’s a bad guy for not figuring out the right thing to do in the small amount of time he had between realising that Sophie hadn’t actually told Dani, and the wedding starting.

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