To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 310: We Just Wanted To Have Fun With Our Friends

Well, well, well! If this season was all episodes featuring a big event, this sure is a fitting finale. This week, on the final episode of the season (and potentially, sadly, the series, as we haven’t heard any renewal news yet), Bette and Tina wed, finally strolling off together, hand in hand, into the sunset and (presumably) their long-awaited happily ever after.

So much of what happens at the wedding is delightful: Bette and Tina are locked in the walk-in fridge, Alice is responsible for booze and CALLING TASHA (to save the brides of course), Sophie and Pippa share a beautiful flirtatious afternoon. G Flip and Chrishell arrive, and Roxy is back to play and Dani is on drugs! So it’s also a big bummer that Tess, Micah and Maribel specifically end the season in truly dour places, and I feel at this point in the season it’s okay for me to be honest about that in this post! From the low of a relapse storyline to the highs of every single second Tasha was onscreen, this feels a fitting (if frustrating) send-off to the season we loved to discuss so much.

Please let us know in the comments if you ALSO spotted Ilene Chaiken in the crowd at the wedding, or if you know why G Flip and Chrishell were guests. We love you, we’ll miss you, we hope you enjoyed the ride! (And if you did, please consider donating to Autostraddle!!!)

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SHOW NOTES

+ The reason Riese called Drew the poppers queen was this essay
+ We make a lot of references to this interview with Gen Q showrunner Marja-Lewis Ryan in this ep
+ Carmen on her love of Pippa Pascal, who is also discussed in this roundtable On Blackness and the L Word
+ Both Daniel Sea interviews again, for good measure
+ Sort Of and P Valley both made the TV team’s top shows of 2022
+ I can’t remember why I’m linking this but Drew and Shelli are covering Sundance!
+ The G Flip & Chrishell explainer, thank you Anya!
+ The podcast You’re Wrong About, which did a series on Princess Diana
+ Arienne Mandi’s holiday movie (also starring Melora Hardin!), Love, Classified
+ One more plug: if you enjoyed this podcast, please consider donating to Autostraddle!!!
+ The time we met the cast of The L Word: Gen Q, three long and wild years ago, kicking off truly one of the most messy months of all of our young lives:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5td8XbHuNr/


Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition

Drew: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition

Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition. Well?

Drew: Here we are. The finale.

Riese: The finale. We’re recording so late because it took a long time to get screeners.

Analyssa: I was going to say “the long awaited finale” in more than one way.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I do think it’s worth noting this is the least amount of time between the three of us watching an episode collectively all together and then recording the podcast.

Riese: Yeah. We just watched it an hour ago.

Analyssa: I watched it just before I got in my car to come over here.

Riese: Right. I watched it just before you guys got here because we didn’t get it until-

Analyssa: And usually we have a few days before we end up being able to schedule to record the podcast so…

Riese: Yeah. Usually I like to have the recap mostly done before we record.

Drew: Yeah. I do think that maybe they kept it from us because they knew that if I couldn’t rant about it on a mic, I would explode out in the world.

Analyssa: They were trying to contain Drew.

Drew: Maybe.

Analyssa: Specifically.

Drew: Potentially.

Riese: I liked it.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I fall, as always, somewhere in the middle.

Drew: There are things about it that I think are great.

Riese: I’m sure by the end of this, Drew will have convinced me to hate it.

Drew: No, I don’t want to do that. Should I just leave? Should I just let you guys… I feel like you got it. I feel like… Also, I want to say before we start that I’m going into this with the knowledge that this could be the last episode of the series, and also with the knowledge that if the showrunner of The L Word: Generation Q was familiar with how television worked, she would know that this very well could be the last episode.

And so with that in mind, I think any TV show you should think about this with a season finale, unless there’s certain shows where we know they’re not going to get canceled and they’re hits and they’re whatever. But your queer show that doesn’t do a lot of numbers that took forever to get renewed this last time, this very well could be the series finale, not just of The L Word: Generation Q, but of The L Word franchise, which means a lot to a lot of people.

And I honestly think that they did do that. I honestly think that they went into this episode making sure to give a happy sendoff to the people who they see as people. And with that, we can start.

Riese: There is, though, I think always the possibility that even if the show is canceled, that I will be hired to write an L Word Christmas special.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And we should be holding out hope for that.

Riese: And obviously, I would have you help me.

Drew: Thank you. Frankly, you could do that just like an AO3 situation.

Analyssa: The next iteration of this podcast is just us workshopping Riese’s Christmas movie.

Riese: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much. But also, the thing is this long wait between to find out renewals is new. That’s a new thing in the age of streaming. When the original series aired, you’d find out mid-season if next season. So it’s such a weird new thing that showrunners are doing where they don’t know when they finish this season, if it’s going to be the season finale. Like that, it never was like that before. So it’s very weird. It’s a weird position for everybody to be in, I guess. Especially us.

Drew: Yeah. Really. This episode is Gen Q 3.10: “Looking Ahead”. It’s directed by Leisha Hailey, and it is written by Marja as well as Scout Comm, and Courtney Edwards. Scout Comm is the script coordinator this season so I’m really glad that they got an episode credit. That’s huge. Courtney Edwards, I couldn’t find that much information about unless, I don’t know. There’s another name that’s similar and I’m trying to figure out if it’s that person or not. But either-

Riese: DM us, Courtney. There’s no-

Drew: Yeah. I would love-

Riese: What’s your story?

Drew: Yeah, who are you?

Riese: So tell us about you. What’s your favorite color? What do you do for fun?

Analyssa: It’s possible that both of them are support staff and that’s writing support staff. And that’s why there’s not a ton of stuff on the internet.

Drew: Yeah. That seems right. And so I’m really happy, regardless of anything else about this episode, getting that first credit’s huge, so very happy.

Analyssa: Especially as a finale episode, that’s a pretty big thing to put on your resume. You don’t really use resumes in the general or in a traditional sense, but to have in your pocket as something that you did is really cool.

Riese: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Usually it’s just the showrunner. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: But we have a lot to talk about. So let’s dive in. Well, we begin with Alice in wedding planner mode, and she’s in wedding planner mode because the wedding planner is-

Riese: Banging Shane. In the bathroom. She’s gay, but she was in Severance, which was one of my favorite shows of 2022, and I highly recommend it. Believe it or not, it’s actually a little bit better than The L Word. But they actually have full intercourse-

Analyssa: Full sex?

Riese: Nice. Thank you. Finally got that in.

Drew: We knew it’d be Shane to bring us back.

Analyssa: So yeah. Alice is planning the wedding because Shane is fucking the wedding planner. And then Tina and Bette are getting ready in a bridal suite.

Riese: I cannot believe they’re doing their own makeup.

Analyssa: The way that this wedding so rapidly oscillates between being explained as a very luxurious event, but then it’s also a very-

Riese: Thrown together in a week

Analyssa: …shoestring. Yeah.

Riese: But there’s like no chance on earth they’d be doing their own makeup.

Drew: No.

Riese: Like zero. I was also like, did they do their own hair? Thank God they didn’t do their own hair. But I was like, wow. Wow. Intense. I mean, it’s that hoarder. She has infinite money. She went to Toronto without a job or a passport just to sit on the sidelines of Murdoch Mysteries, and that is obviously true love, as we see. Anyway, Tina might be going through menopause, might not.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That’s a cliffhanger right there.

Analyssa: That’s one thing that we’ll never get an answer to if this doesn’t get us next season.

Riese: Right. We’ll never know.

Drew: Alice has a fun little dress on that’s both black and white polka dot and rainbow. It’s definitely a choice.

Riese: I liked it. I thought it was cute.

Drew: Yeah. And Alice needs to get alcohol, which she has forgotten to do.

Riese: You know what I would do in this situation? Just like I’m just spitballing here. I would like, have you ever been to BevMo!?

Analyssa: Right, right, right.

Riese: Ralph’s, Costco, the corner store.

Analyssa: Costco would be great. They’d have a ton of stuff to get.

Riese: Yeah, Costco. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of options that I would go to-

Drew: Before calling-

Riese: …before calling my ex. Yeah. Although also, I don’t even, in that case, I might call Finley and stuff.

Analyssa: But I was going to say, the other thing I probably would’ve done is called the other friend who works at the same location and at least have Finley run in between the two of them.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But Alice is immediately, you have to call Tess.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, my bigger problem is that the wedding planner says to Shane, “I’m a Capricorn moon, so I love to serve.” which that just didn’t… I mean, if someone, I’m not an expert with astrology, so if someone wants to explain why that’s the case…

Riese: Are you a Capricorn moon?

Drew: I am.

Riese: Oh, I have-

Analyssa: You’re a Capricorn moon, also?

Drew: I’m Capricorn sun. No. Oh, sorry, not moon. I’m Capricorn Mars. Did she say Mars or did she say moon?

Analyssa: No, she said moon, by the way.

Drew: Okay. Either way, does that explain… Why… It should be Mars, right? That’s sex and also…

Analyssa: Right. But she’s making a joke about work too.

Drew: Yeah, I guess okay.

Riese: Don’t look at me for astrology.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: I looked at you. I turned to you.

Drew: Tell us if that checks out. I guess like serve maybe has just different connotations to me. If she was like, I love to work hard, I’d be like, okay. But there was just-

Analyssa: Get the job done.

Drew: Yeah. But something about serve felt, I was like, I don’t know. It didn’t work for me astrologically, but

Riese: Well, take it up with the stars.

Drew: I’m a Taurus moon. For the record.

Riese: Take it up with the stars!

Drew: Anyways, so then we go to Tess who walks into the bar with a very obvious hangover.

Analyssa: And look, for now, what I’ll say about this storyline is I was just glad to not see that damn purple coffee mug. The fact that they did not bring this coffee mug back out was one small mercy of this storyline for me.

Drew: Yeah. Finley comes in, there’s some back and forth about Finley has a new place now and how gross it is, apparently. And she’s like, you should come see my new place. And then Tess has this moment of like, oh shit, I’m going to have to get new furniture when I get my own new place.

Riese: She’s not. Shane will leave the furniture.

Drew: And Finley’s like, “Fuck Shane, I’m on your side.”

Riese: Right. Sure. Okay.

Drew: Back to the wedding.

Riese: Roxy comes back. That’s exciting. I didn’t know that was going to happen.

Analyssa: That was fun.

Riese: And we loved her.

Analyssa: I was really excited to see her. We learned that Dani ghosted Dre after they said that they wanted to get more serious,

Riese: But also Dre left Dani and was like, I’m cutting out of this.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: So who’s the ghost?

Analyssa: Once again?

Drew: No. We obviously have to make it not Dani’s fault. It obviously needs to be Dre’s fault. Whatever. It’s like, it’s fine. It’s so funny because I was so excited about Roxy when Roxy was introduced, and her and Dani are so fun together. And then to end the last episode with Dani and Dre, how they were also very clearly Dani had feelings for Dre. So to then be like, Dani ghosted, you’re like, what? Okay. Like what? Okay. And Sophie’s worried that Alice is mad at her.

Riese: Everyone’s outfits are great, I just want to say.

Analyssa: Yes, everyone-

Riese: Especially Dani looks spectacular.

Analyssa: Everyone looks amazing in this episode. They knocked it out of the park. Sophie’s also set a really big goal for the wedding to get laid.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: That’s a big thing that she’s talking about.

Riese: Yeah. Good for her.

Drew: Sophie, the only character in this episode that I feel really good about.

Riese: All right.

Drew: Roxy gives Dani molly and Dani’s like, “Molly doesn’t work on me.” It seems weird to me that this season has had so many repeat storylines. Like, yes-

Riese: They did molly earlier?

Drew: No, but they had, they just this season had so many different drug things. You have Micah at an event where Micah’s high, and now you have Dani high. And not that people don’t do drugs. I get it. But it is just like-

Riese: Drew. Queen poppers.

Drew: I do. I’m really the only person here who does drugs, but it’s just to make it a storyline.

Riese: I did drugs when I was your age.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: But now I’m old.

Analyssa: I also did drugs when I was your age.

Drew: We’re the same age. But yeah. And then two episodes ending with an almost death and just these things where I’m-

Analyssa: Even Dani being torn between two people at the end of this episode. I was like, wait, deja vu. It’s not the same, but her being involved in a…

Drew: Yeah. Anyways, it’s fine.

Riese: I know there’s a lot of questionable character choices in it, but I don’t know, with the exception of the Micah and Maribel stuff that I’m sure we’ll get into and the Tess stuff, it had a good energy to me. You know what I mean? It was funny. It was fast paced. It felt like the vibes were good. I just had fun watching it, and I felt emotionally invested in a lot of things. Then there were those two things that are profoundly upsetting.

Drew: But I think part of the problem for me is that there were things about this episode that I really liked and we’re going to get into them, and it felt-

Riese: Mean?

Drew: It felt mean. It felt just very apparent. And I don’t want to do a summary of the episode when we’re two scenes in, but it just feels so blatant. Even though season six ended with Max being humiliated and it was terrible, at least Jenny had been killed and everyone was going to be arrested, and it was terrible.

Riese: But that’s terrible.

Drew: No, it’s awful. Jenny’s death is one of my least favorite. I was just talking to someone about this, how much Jenny’s death is one of the worst deaths. I hate it. It bothers me more than Dana’s death. But I’m just saying that universally, it was terrible, whereas-

Analyssa: Everything was going wrong.

Drew: Whereas here, it’s literally like the trans actors, the disabled actor, and everyone else pretty much gets a really good wrapped up happy ending.

Riese: Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: And that feels brutal. Anyways, let’s carry on because there is a lot of fun stuff.

Riese: Bette and Tina, they go to the walk-in, and it’s a secret, special kind of walk-in, I guess with a weird door situation unlike a door that I’ve ever witnessed, and I’ve spent a lot of time sitting in walk-ins, because that’s what you do with the Olive Garden when you’re hot and you want to eat desserts out of the box.

Drew: We do learn that Bette and Tina were previously married at the courthouse.

Analyssa: Thank God. I was like-

Riese: The relief.

Analyssa: I watched that and I said, I’m so happy for Riese.

Riese: Thank you so much.

Analyssa: It truly is like they heard you.

Riese: It is. Yeah. I appreciated that. And it was very calming to me.

Drew: There are actually quite a few things that throughout this episode that could have been said three episodes of ago.

Riese: Yeah. There was quite a few things. Yeah. I mean, there’s one really big one, but there’s a lot. But yeah, there’s a lot of things where I was like, finally, this is being coming up. This is coming around. But I’m like, why did they wait until now? That’s kind of weird.

Analyssa: Again, once again, referencing the letterboxed review of someone I don’t know, of just needing 72 hours in edit bay. I was like, I would’ve put this scene three episodes ago. And then me, Analyssa, I never would’ve been mad about this plot line. Would’ve been so much easier.

Riese: Yeah. I just wonder what happened. The last, when they were working on a script, oh, we never really explained this. Or was it on set? Someone was like, we really should address this.

Drew: I think Scout Comm and Courtney Edwards are in that room. They’ve been sitting in that room as script coordinator saying-

Riese: And they’re like, someone mentioned they were married before.

Analyssa: A script coordinator would be like, I have my eyes on the fact that we’ve never brought up this, this, and this. Let’s get those things handled.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Yeah. A script coordinator is very detailed. They track every change to a script. They’re continuity people. They’re in charge of that kind of thing.

Riese: Oh, wow. They probably came with some notes.

Drew: So I’m going to give credit to those first time television writers and say that, thank you for making us feel slightly less crazy.

Analyssa: There’s also some fun fan service for… It might not hit for everybody, but I did. I loved the attempt of Bette and Tina being like, I want our friends to see us get married. And what they really mean is the L Word audience.

Riese: They’ve seen us through all this.

Analyssa: They’ve seen us through all this. They want this for us. It’ll be so fun to celebrate with them. I thought that was sweet.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know. That interview that recently came out with Marja-Lewis Ryan, we did learn about one of her strengths isn’t arcs, that she’s still learning how to get arcs down, so I do think it makes sense to be like, oh yeah, a lot of stuff was explained this episode, and if you had an understanding of arcs, maybe you would put that in throughout the season. But if that’s one of your flaws, and we all have flaws, we’re not perfect.

Riese: Like, I don’t want to be CEO of my company.

Analyssa: For one recent anecdotal example. Sure.

Riese: Yeah. I just want to write things. Maybe run a TikTok.

Drew: I think maybe Marja just wants to act again and Marja says she should go back.

Riese: Maybe we’ve all just found ourselves in positions we didn’t expect to be in.

Drew: I don’t want to be hosting an L Word podcast. I’ll tell you that.

Riese: Drew. Drew, how dare you!

Drew: We can cut that. No, we probably won’t. But no, I love it. But yes, it is very much, so much of what this episode does well is giving fans of the original series a real sort of happy ending closure; lesbians getting married for Bette and Tina and also-

Riese: Well, Tina’s bisexual.

Drew: I would like to apologize to-

Riese: The bisexual community.

Drew: …the 50 plus year old cis white-

Analyssa: Drew, look at me in my eyeballs.

Drew: …bisexual community for the offense that I’ve done. But yeah, I mean also Alice in talk, which we’ll get to, I think those two things are really the point of this episode. Yeah. It was. And I’m happy for you if that’s something you’re invested in.

Riese: The forced smile Drew just gave us. It was really incredible.

Analyssa: Anyway, they’re locked in the fridge as we know.

Drew: They’re locked in the fridge.

Analyssa: As we all knew what happened as soon as they walked into the fridge.

Riese: Usually, the handle. It’s like this big. It’s bigger. It’s like the size of a two year old, and it’s like you pull it’s, and also doesn’t, whatever. It’s fine.

Drew: It doesn’t make any sense. I actually didn’t think it was going to happen because it didn’t make sense to me, but that’s fine. Did we do a locked in a thing so far this season?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: This season? No. Okay. But there was the elevator thing. Yeah, sure. Of course. I mean, I do love when people get locked in a place.

Drew: I also love that.

Analyssa: Oh, we did Locked Out, Tess and Shane.

Drew: We did do locked out.

Riese: We locked out. Locked out. That’s an arc. I think that’s an arc is. Yeah. You go home locked out to locked in, and then you’ve written a story.

Drew: And that’s the difference between-

Riese: In 60 minutes.

Drew: Between Shane and between Bette and Tina is Bette and Tina locked in.

Analyssa: They’re locked in.

Drew: Shane, locked out.

Riese: Locked out. Locked out. Locked out on a ledge.

Analyssa: For one brief second, there’s like a throwaway line about how now there’s alcohol. Alice is talking to some person who has brought the alcohol. And for one brief moment, I was like, they’re not even going to bring Tess. That’s amazing.

Riese: Right. I thought so too.

Analyssa: That appealed so good to me.

Riese: Yeah. Why would Tess come?

Drew: I noted that-

Riese: Again, BevMo!

Analyssa: BevMo exists.

Drew: That extra or whatever the right word is for the person who’s like, didn’t say anything because obviously that person, you talk, you talk, it’s a thing.

Analyssa: He got to get paid.

Drew: And I was paid and I was like, oh, I wish that they’d given that person some lines so that they could have gotten health insurance, but that person doesn’t. So it’s kind of awkward. And then Sophie goes up to Alice and they have this nice little moment where they reconcile. And Alice is like, you did a great job. You’re getting promoted. I just want to be mad at you. And Sophie’s like, oh my God.

Analyssa: This was, I feel showed so much of what Riese was talking about. The episode does well, they’re, the two of them have a real sparkle. It was just so delightful.

Riese: Another part of the episode that was incredibly delightful is that Pippa shows up.

Drew: This is the best thing about this episode.

Riese: And I was like, holy shit. Because I was like, she’s not like, that’s it. I watched Vanessa Estelle Williams did a Insta Story or something on set, but she didn’t say what she was on the set of. And I watched it 20 times trying to figure out, do I see any people who look vaguely gay in the background? It looked like they were outside or something, and it could not have been this, honestly, but I was like, it must have been something else. And maybe it wasn’t.

Drew: Yeah. Sophie is talking to herself about wanting to get laid, and then Pippa is like, I heard you-

Riese: Looking amazing.

Drew: And they have such good chemistry. They’re both so hot.

Riese: So hot.

Drew: It’s so good. And also, I’m just like, okay, Autostraddle editor-in-chief, Carmen.

Riese: I was just about to say this!

Drew: I know. I was so happy for Carmen.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, when the Bette and Pippa relationship was happening that one of the things that a lot of people of color on the Autostraddle writing staff, but Carmen especially, was like, this is so cool to see two black women who are just in a relationship having feelings for each other. I was just so, and Sophie being one of Carmen’s favorite characters maybe ever. I was just like,

Riese: Yes. Yeah, I know.

Drew: I texted Carmen and was like,

Riese: Oh, you did? Because I almost texted her! I was gonna say like, if you could find an hour for yourself this weekend, you should watch this.

Drew: Yeah. I said, there are so many problems with the finale of the outward generation queue, but there are two things that feel specifically for you, and I just want you to promise me you’re going to turn off your critic hat and turn off your care about other people hat and really enjoy those things. Really enjoy those because it’ll bring me joy.

Riese: Yeah, I know. My absolute first thought was, I am so happy for Carmen.

Analyssa: Me too. But then unfortunately, Finley is here to interrupt what could have been smoldering sexual chemistry for a while.

Riese: A I know. And I have been the biggest Sinley shipper ever, and it would take a lot to get me to root for Sophie to be with someone else, and this episode did accomplish that for me.

Drew: Yeah, it does. Yeah. It really does.

Riese: It does. Yeah.

Analyssa: I still, in my heart of hearts was like, okay, I understand. I deeply want Sinley to be together, but what if Sophie dated Pippa just for this one day and they got to kiss a little bit? Wouldn’t that be great?

Drew: I ship them forever now. I become the-

Riese: They’re much better for each other.

Drew: The audience who’s like, I want the queers to get married. I’m like, no, I get it.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Marry them.

Riese: So yeah, Finley wants her toaster back. I think that’s the last time Sophie and Finley talked to each other.

Drew: So then we go to Micah and Maribel and one of those Amazon robots has delivered a canister of sperm. That’s how it works. You just order off the internet and it arrives at your house.

Riese: Yeah, you can. There’s a lot of paperwork, I think. I didn’t do this route because it’s not the route that you do if you have anything complicated about your pregnancy. You don’t do an at-home insemination. It’s more likely done if you’re younger, whatever. Everything. It’s not the best. I don’t think it’s the best option for them.

Analyssa: It’s more likely done if you’re a Bette and Tina in season one of the original.

Riese: Yes. They would be a great example of that. And I mean that is how it… I haven’t gotten it that way, but I think that is how it comes in what it looks like. I don’t really understand the blue thing, when you get it done in doctor’s office. I don’t think it was blue, but I don’t know. It’s kind of disassociating because it’s weird. I don’t like having a body. At first I was like $700? But if you’re doing it at home, the sperm is a little bit cheaper. But that is kind of on the cheap side.

Analyssa: The way that I felt joy when Pippa and Sophie started making eyes at each other for Carmen. I felt deep despair for my friends, Riese and Drew, for this story. As soon as this started happening, I was like, huh.

Drew: I wish I could go back in time though and tell the Drew of two hours ago that this moment of this storyline is-

Riese: Not the worst.

Drew: The best we’re going to get.

Riese: Right. I would like to say that for a show that began with Tina saying, “I’m ovulating” back in 2004, I was a little bit confused about whether or not Maribel was ovulating. It just didn’t come up. They were, I was like, why are you taking the sperm out right now? It happened to, why did it just come on the day? This is her ovulation day. Is she monitoring any of that? Did she, whatever.

Drew: Yeah. She did say the clock is ticking at one point, but

Riese: She was talking about the sperm that they had for some reason already taken out. Because at first, I was like, “Oh, the clock is ticking. You know you only have a few hours or whatever.” And then, the other thing about it that annoyed me was this will be a baby in nine months. What? No. It won’t. Only if it works!

Drew: It’s a little bit of an anti-abortion sort of fetus, not even fetus, but sperm is a person?

Riese: Yeah. Every time someone with sperm and someone who makes eggs have sex, do they say this is going to be a baby in nine months? Because that’s the same thing as what they’re doing right now.

Drew: Yeah. It’s fucking weird.

Riese: It’s really weird. It’s fine.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s fine. It’s weird. It’s fine. And also it’s weird because this is the only other thing that isn’t part of the wedding. So it’s like it’s separate in so many ways. Tess is like what? She’s about to go perform at a Vegas lounge, the way that she rolls up in her glitter dress…

Analyssa: This dress…

Riese: … with her smoldering facial expressions?

Analyssa: This dress, the fact that she was at her work in athleisure, basically hungover, and then now is full face of makeup. I respect that “I’m going to see my ex” energy. I know that we don’t deal in the temporal realities in The L Word, but I was just like, this is crazy. And this was the plot line that I was then feeling despair for myself obviously. Yeah.

Riese: Shane and Tess eye each other.

Drew: Yeah. Shane and Tess are like very flirty.

Analyssa: Also, sorry, Tess is now working the event basically. They didn’t just call her and say, can we get a bunch of alcohol from Dana’s? Which first of all, if I’d just been dumped by one of the bridal party, I’d be like, “Go fuck yourself,” number one. But number two now, she’s like serving up drinks kind of. It’s bizarre.

Drew: It makes no sense. Yeah. There are other bartenders who work, we’ve seen whenever they have parties.

Riese: It’s also, but there was this weird power dynamic with Shane owns the bar and Tess works for her. But that was never really addressed. And this is the first time, and it’s like, “Well, this is kind of why that’s a little bit hard.” Yeah.

Drew: Alice was like, “It’s showtime,” which I was like, “Yes.” And when Alice and Shane leave, then Tess leaves to go to some random guy’s car to do cocaine.

Riese: I mean, that is a realistic depiction of what you do to get cocaine.

Analyssa: Literally, I was like, I mean, okay. I cannot argue with the fact that I’ve been there, so.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. For legal reasons. That’s a joke.

Riese: Yeah. Me too. Well, no, it doesn’t matter. No one cares when I did coke.

Drew: Yeah. He is like, “Have you ever done this before?” Which is a weird thing to ask someone who very aggressively is, “Do you have cocaine?”

Riese: I know.

Analyssa: Tess is giving off vibes of not only have I done this before, but since before you were alive, my man.

Drew: Today.

Riese: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Analyssa: But sure.

Riese: And this guy, it was like he, I don’t know, he was like an extra from a Diet Coke commercial or something.

Drew: Yeah. I have no idea who this man is.

Riese: I have no idea who this man is. Let’s call him Brett.

Analyssa: Okay. Sure. And later, when they are doing these big wedding guest crowd reveal, he’s the only man at the event.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Brett is the only man in the crowd whatsoever. He was the only man on set that day, I think. I think that there’s no…

Drew: Which really goes to show what Tina and Bette’s community is. It’s just so funny. It’s just the AfterEllen editorial staff.

Riese: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: I didn’t note any other music cues this episode. But just for old times sake, Tess putting a key of cocaine up her nose and the music going, “Did you think that you’re really in control?” I mean, that’s got to be the season best I think.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Is this when we get all the flashes? No. That’s later.

Riese: She does way too much cocaine.

Analyssa: It’s so much cocaine. Whatever.

Riese: So Bette and Tina are still in the walk-in.

Analyssa: Bette makes a little cheese plate, a little charcuterie board. It was so cute.

Riese: It was adorable. Yeah. It was like, wow, she can cook, she can clean, she can get locked in the freezer.

Drew: Tina’s mad that Bette is being so calm. Which this also, in this scene, we get to it, but I liked this as a storyline. I liked the idea of actually growth isn’t never being angry. It’s just knowing when to be angry and when to direct the anger. And I do appreciate…

Analyssa: And not to lash out at the people who are trying to help you also. Also just from a comedy standpoint, this is very funny. This is a great representation of when your partner is endlessly positive, and you’re like, “Please shut the up, and just let me be mad and you be mad with me also.”

Riese: Or you’re like, “I get that you just downloaded a meditation app and your whole life has changed. But I’m still here. I didn’t have time to do the meditation app. So let’s get back on the same page.”

Drew: Tina does have a meditation app though also. We saw.

Riese: Oh, that’s true. Tina does have the meditation app.

Drew: Anyways, Shane and Alice show up and break the other handle. And then Alice is going to call the fire department. And I’m like…

Riese: Is this show sponsored by 911?

Analyssa: Truly, the number of times this has been said, they are just itching to call, any little thing.

Riese: Like… break the window?

Drew: Yeah. Truly.

Riese: With the hammer. Why were they like… Whatever.

Drew: Whatever, it’s so wild.

Analyssa: Second only to Fox’s 911 is this show mentioning 911 per episode.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But then Tina’s like, “I like all of you. Let all of those parts out,” and then Bette screams at Alice to call Tasha because there’s a whole thing where the fire department is delayed. There are lots of fire stations.

Riese: But also, why would they need the fire department to open a door?

Drew: Yeah. Also, they should just be like, “Call Tasha because she’s strong and hot.” I don’t know.

Riese: She’s hot. Everyone would like to see her again.

Drew: There’s no guest at this wedding who- at this gay wedding…

Riese: Gay wedding.

Drew: …that, I’m sorry, at this lesbian and bisexual joint wedding-

Riese: Get Ilene Chaikin in her wedges.

Drew: There isn’t one queer person who can roll up those sleeves and…

Analyssa: And there’s a crowbar somewhere on the guy’s property.

Drew: Come on.

Riese: I mean, honestly, Finley I’m sure would be happy to try. Finley would love to save the day. Finley didn’t really do anything in this episode!

Drew: Yeah. This was a real anti-Finley.

Riese: Yeah. They gave Finley so much in episode eight and then were like, “Bye.”

Analyssa: That’s enough.

Riese: “That’s enough from you. Thank you so much for being in the show.” And yeah, they yell at Alice to call Tasha. Thank God.

Analyssa: We were all thinking it.

Riese: Yeah. And then she said to Shane, “Maybe you should call her from your number.”

Drew: Yeah. Dani’s on Molly.

Riese: I thought it was so cute.

Drew: Smelling roses and then on the phone telling Dre that she loves them.

Analyssa: I want to say Dani on Molly acting and performance in this is so good.

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: It’s so funny. She nails it. I was like, “Yeah. I love it.” It’s a perfect TV representation of being on a specific drug, which is so rare.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. If they had framed it where Dre had been the one to be like… I know that when Dre left, Dre was like, “I have to leave because whatever.” I get they kind of did that. But if they had made it clearer that Dre had walked away from the relationship, it all would’ve worked so much better than throughout this, I’m feeling like, no, Dani don’t kiss Roxy. Whereas if it was like you just got rejected by Dre, I’d be like, kiss Roxy. Kiss Roxy. And my entire feeling about Dani’s Molly antics, I would’ve been having such a better time.

Riese: You know why that’s true? Because that is how I read the last episode, and I was having a great time.

Drew: Yeah. I guess it just wasn’t really done well, last episode. I wasn’t sold on it. It was like, wait, what? Why would you walk away?

Riese: It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t make sense — But I was like, I guess this is what the show has decided is that was Dre… It didn’t make sense, because it’s like why would you need some… they could certainly wait for Dani to come around. And like we talked about.

Drew: Right. And also, instead of Dani calling Dre and saying, “I love you,” Dani could have been, “I invited Dre to the wedding, but I don’t think they’re going to come.” It could have been something like that. Instead we start…

Analyssa: She’s playing too…

Drew: … Dani’s highness being like, “I love you.” And I’m like, yay. Dre’s going to show up, and they’re going to kiss, and it’s going to be fun! And it’s like, so instead, I don’t know. But Sophie brings…

Riese: The think about Molly is you can love a lot of people.

Drew: It is true. That is my favorite drug.

Riese: Yeah. The first time I did ecstasy, three different people called me to tell me they loved me.

Drew: Oh wow.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: Yeah. And I was like, this is really bizarre! And not how I thought this night was going to go. But I mean obviously I was happy to reciprocate.

Drew: Did any of those get you in trouble?

Riese: No.

Drew: The were like, it was…

Riese: It was like an ex, a friend who had been helping. I’ve been taking care of him because he was sick.

Drew: It wasn’t like love confessions.

Riese: No, no, no. It wasn’t Love confessions. No.

Drew: Sophie brings them lollipops, which is so clutch, like so good of Sophie. Dani’s very high. And we see her rainbow POV, which was fun.

Riese: She was like dancing to… Yeah.

Drew: Leisha was really having fun with the drug direction in this episode.

Riese: Yes. Her dancing to the elevator music, was that here?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That was really funny.

Analyssa: I love that this episode and last episode, Kate’s. Like you can feel their sensibilities really shining in these episodes. I thought that was so fun. I was watching this being like oh, of course Leisha Hailey directed this. This is amazing.

Riese: Of course. It was so cute.

Drew: Pippa says bye to Sophie because the wedding’s delayed. And so Pippa’s like, “I’m at my ex’s wedding. I was being nice. I’m not going to wait around while they’re stuck in a fridge.”

Analyssa: Honestly. Reasonable. Except that there’s an open bar and a lot of important people here. Schmooze, I don’t know, have fun.

Drew: And like hot people! Sophie, Dani and Roxy are like, “Are you with her?” And she’s like, “No. And should I run after her?” It’s really fun. Again, everything with Sophie and Pippa is perfection.

Riese: Yeah. And Dani’s like, “She’s this huge famous artist and she used to date Bette Porter,” and Sophie’s like, “Oh my God, she used to date Bette Porter?”

Analyssa: The quick recap from Dani while on drugs is so funny and being like, “She thinks I’m the devil, but I’m obsessed with her.” It’s perfect.

Drew: So then…

Analyssa: Yeah. And I was really thinking about the lineage of Bette Porter and Sophie and having dated Pippa, and Sophie getting a promotion, entering this rank of powerful lesbian.

Riese: Yeah. She’s dating Bette Porter’s ex.

Analyssa: Very cool.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I mean Dani already did.

Drew: So then Sophie runs after Pippa, and Dani cries. And is like, “I’m so happy that we’re friends.

Analyssa: We’re friends.

Drew: We’re really friends. So Sophie catches up with Pippa, and it’s great.

Riese: Yeah. It’s wonderful. I’m so happy for them.

Drew: Pippa makes a joke about not being mad that Tina and Bette are stuck in the fridge, which brought me so much joy. And they steal the just-married car.

Riese: Yes. Golf cart.

Analyssa: So fun.

Riese: Angie. I don’t know why we still have to keep seeing this man.

Analyssa: Why did this happen in this episode?

Riese: This was the episode for her and Bella.

Analyssa: Was he contractually obligated to seven episodes? He was in so many.

Riese: He was in so many more episodes than we needed to be.

Drew: Was he in more episodes than Micah? It was the same amount.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I’d have to look.

Riese: It might be the same amount. No. It’s less. Because he wasn’t in the first episode.

Drew: There’s no reason for him to…

Riese: And he wasn’t in the musical episode.

Drew: There is no reason for him to show…. Oh, right. Micah was in the musical episode. What a great role that was. Well why? They could have ended it the last… Why is he here just to have… It’s sort of how I felt about having Tess and Shane have that big breakup scene the way it was. Right? I just was like, wait, if you’re going to have them break up, why are you having them break up like this? Why are you giving more fuel to this? And so with this, I just was like, we need him to show up just so he can disappoint Angie again? Why couldn’t that had happened, she goes to Hendrix’s place, is like, “Let’s hook up.” And he’s like, “I’m moving to New York.” And then she runs after Bella, or Bella’s in this episode with her, something.

Riese: And also, again, as a person who used to work in the publishing industry, the idea that you would move to New York City because an editor has expressed interest in your book is absolutely batshit.

Analyssa: Deranged behavior.

Riese: Yes. Unhinged.

Analyssa: It means nothing.

Riese: I mean, the choices I could have made every time an editor was interested in my book, and as you can tell, it’s not published. So I mean, there was some comedy here, I feel like. There was some stuff with Bette and Tina and an Angie, like, “Don’t say I told you so,” or something.

Analyssa: I guess. Yeah. Angie got to…

Drew: I just felt sad about it though. It wasn’t funny to me. I guess there’s some comedy there, but I just was like, I felt for Angie and I want better for her.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. I did like that. They let her be mean to him. But again, she was already sort of doing that last episode. Why didn’t we just wrap it up there and have her bring Bella to the wedding as a consolation date and then realize that they’re in love? Fun.

Riese: We all would’ve been so entertained.

Analyssa: And that’s most important is that the three of us are as entertained as possible.

Riese: Exactly. As we made clear today to Showtime, the most important thing about their show is that we get screeners and that we get the pod-…

Analyssa: Get the podcast done.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Also, Micah and Maribel, they have their donor. That could have been the end of their storyline. And then they could have been at the wedding. I don’t know why they’re at the wedding, but they’re at the wedding.

Analyssa: Later, we’ll talk about, there’s some people at this wedding that I have no explanation for why they’re there at all. So who cares?

Riese: I mean, I like that he was dating Maribel because that brought him closer to the rest of the group as opposed to when it was Jose. And that was a tertiary thing, which is the same thing they did with Max and Tom. And it has been more integrated. They’ve had more scenes and that’s been great. But this episode obviously was not like that.

Drew: Yeah. So unfortunately we do have to go to them. And Micah’s panicking about the insemination and decides to bring up Maribel’s disability now.

Riese: Again, also, he does begin all of this by acting like putting the sperm inside of her is going to 100% result in a baby that will be born in nine months. And I just don’t understand why they’re acting like that. But yeah, now they’re talking about it?

Drew: Our generous read to the writers of The L Word: Generation Q, the television program on Showtime was, okay, they’re going for something where they’re trying to normalize disability by not engaging with it, which we talked about why that’s wrong, why it’s better to engage with it, and why you can still make it positive, or you can still make someone three dimensional. And actually not engaging with someone’s disability. Not engaging with someone’s transness isn’t actually some gift that you’re giving. But we were like, okay, but that’s why they’re not doing it. To do it now?

Analyssa: And in this explosive weird way… There’s no…

Riese: There’s one part where Maribel starts to say, “The doctor said,” but it’s drowned out. I think that might be later in their argument. I don’t remember. But that just, why didn’t they have us there for the doc? And Micah’s saying that she might die. Does he say that here? Saying she might die. There’s all kinds of complications for someone, ways that it’s hard on your body if you have muscular dystrophy, but the chance of dying while giving birth is not necessarily the most likely result at all. It’s a very weird thing for him to say. And also honestly, is the exact opposite of what anyone should be trying to do. It’s too dramatic. There’s lots of complications and ways that it’s going to be tough on her physically. But I could be wrong. But it’s my understanding that death during delivery is not necessarily one of them.

Drew: And if it was a concern for Micah, that should have happened earlier. It’s so absurd to not have that addressed. Micah’s anxieties earlier were about being a parent. What was Micah’s question to Max? How do you know when you need to change a diaper or whatever? The idea of this coming up now is so gross. It’s just so gross. It makes me so angry, both for Micah, for Maribel, for trans people, for disabled people. To have this happen while most of the episode is concerned with this big celebratory wedding. And then the only times we go away, I mean, we’ll come back to this scene and it gets even worse. But it’s so…

Riese: It’s what they used to do with Max.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, what, are we going to, 10 years from now, have another L World?

Riese: A reckoning.

Drew: And we’ll bring Maribel back to say, “I’m sorry.” It’s wild that the one thing that I can say for a fact was done better on Gen Q when it comes to lots of different representation issues, is bringing Max back and giving him a happy ending. Very nice. But that happened in season three, and it happened because of how they were talking about their own show on the first season, and me feeling like it was wrong, and reaching out to Daniel. They didn’t reach out to Daniel. And a lot of other people were- I’m not taking credit for it. A lot of people were involved to get Daniel back on the show. Jenni Olson being a really big one, but it wasn’t from their own place of, we want to make up for this. Their way of making up for it was the existence of Micah and…

Riese: Pierce.

Drew: …Pierce.

Riese: And I think their other way was to not have Micah surrounded by transphobes.

Drew: Sure. So we don’t need to pretend the original series, especially the later seasons weren’t brutal and brutally transphobic. But this, it’s just a different kind of transphobia. And I don’t think we need to talk about better or worse because I don’t think that’s helpful. But the way that Micah was treated for three seasons, and the way that the trans characters in general were treated for three seasons, and the way that this disabled character has been treated, and especially in this final episode, that could be the final time we see this character, is appalling. It makes me so mad. And it makes me so mad in a way where I can’t even engage with it. And I mean, I feel the same way about Tess’s storyline and we’re going to get to this, it’s such a disappointment, and in a way that makes me just… I mean, it’s altered my relationship to media in a way that the original series, because it came out years before I was out, couldn’t have in the sense that I’m so grateful for the second season of Sort Of, I’m so grateful for P-Valley and that it got renewed for a third season.

These shows that aren’t maybe bringing our community together with watch parties and all of these things in the same way, but I’m just happy to watch at home, talk to with a few friends, and just be grateful that there’s actual queer artists out there making great work. And so I’m so happy that those shows exist. And it makes me just like… The desire for media that has a wider base, that has an audience that goes beyond those identities, not that Sort Of and P-Valley aren’t watched by people who aren’t trans obviously, but just the way that The L Word has cultural cachet, the way that Euphoria is tweeted about every week, I don’t care. I don’t want to be a part of it. I wish they would stop putting trans people on those shows. I truly, I wish they would stop it because they don’t know how to write the characters.

Anyways. Do we want to go to Tess doing coke?

Riese: Yes. So Tess, she’s doing coke in the car, and she’s really doing coke.

Drew: She’s really doing it.

Riese: Really doing it. Coke, Coke, Coke. Coke. Coke,

Drew: It’s a little…

Riese: Coke.

Drew: It reminded me of Alice chugging pills. Where you’re just like, two pills would still do this. Why do you need a visual of this?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Also you can’t chug antidepressants. That’s not how it works.

Analyssa: Is this the part where she’s flashing back to different…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. That was unnecessary.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Leisha’s having more fun, happy for Leisha. Yay. We get to go to Pippa and Sophie. Thank God.

Analyssa: So yeah. Pippa and Sophie are having a conversation, they’re talking about their lives and their work. And Pippa has been offered a career retrospective by the Hammer. Congratulations.

Riese: Nice. Can’t wait to go to that.

Analyssa: And Sophie is talking about…

Riese: For a second, I was like, “I can’t wait to…” Oh.

Analyssa: I literally was like, oh my God, really? Artist of our time Pippa Pascal. And then Sophie’s talking about how she got hired on the Alice Show, which is that she did two documentaries. One went to Sundance, Alice saw it, which LOL. No. She didn’t. Not my Alice. I love her. But she’s not watching Sundance documentaries.

Drew: No. Someone on her team maybe saw it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: For sure.

Riese: Drew, her unpaid intern saw it.

Analyssa: And then called Sophie. Sophie does a really good Alice impression, which I think is fun. And then Pippa, despite not knowing what Sophie’s first two documentaries are, fine, is like, what’s your next one?

Riese: Yeah. And I think it’s showing that maybe Sophie is better with somebody who’s also artistic and working on their own independent projects that can encourage her to do the same. Whereas Finley’s just not at that place yet and including the reason that she had this really shitty family situation. So she never really was able to figure out what her passions were. She just had to find work.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re in a time of life that I feel like this was really accurate. Some people start to accelerate in their career, and their passions, and get the opportunities, and move ahead really quickly. And you’re with people, or friends with people, or whoever who just for any number of reasons, that doesn’t happen for, and it starts to feel like so unbalanced. This was like…

Riese: Very LA.

Analyssa: Yeah. Seeing her with Pippa, I was like, “Oh, I don’t feel like she’s too young, or too inexperienced, or too immature to be with someone like this. I really was like, “Oh.” Kind of when Dani and Gigi picked up together, you were like, “Oh. All right. This actually might make more sense.”

Drew: Yeah. And then they almost kissed.

Analyssa: Of all the ways that makeouts have been interrupted on this program this season though, was this not the best one?

Drew: It was funny. I do think after the cow mooed, I would just kiss again.

Riese: Yeah. I know. I was like, why aren’t you…

Drew: Why aren’t you kissing? What?

Riese: Yeah. Just laugh. And keep your faces a little close together and kind of turn and laugh, and then stick your tongue down her throat.

Drew: This is the best kind of kiss. It’s like the cow took the tension out and so if it’s not a great first kiss, you can blame the cow. Try again later in the night. Come on.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But Sophie has convinced Pippa to stay for the wedding.

Drew: Yes. Which is important.

Riese: Hot.

Drew: Dani tells Roxy that she’s beautiful and Roxy’s like, “I didn’t know that you were noticing me because you’ve been talking about Dre all night.” And then they kiss.

Riese: And then…

Drew: I had to be told by Elise who these people were, but she really didn’t really tell me who they were. She told me someone was Australian and someone’s named G Flip, and that’s about what I’ve got.

Analyssa: Really?

Riese: I think this is your moment.

Analyssa: The Australian is named G Flip.

Drew: Oh, I see. Okay. So I was confused. Oh, one’s a realtor which I got from the show.

Riese: Yeah. On Selling Sunset.

Analyssa: On Selling Sunset.

Riese: I know that we had to write, or Anya wrote it, but I had to be educated on this topic because we wrote an article about it, but I do believe that…

Drew: But I’m not doing that thing that people would do in high school where they’d be like, “Who’s Miley Cyrus? I don’t know Hannah Montana.” I promise that I’m not trying to be. I’ve obviously heard these names before, but this was a moment where I didn’t recognize them. And then I was like, “Oh, I’ve heard those names. Who are these people?” I would love to know. Educate me.

Analyssa: No, no. To be clear, I also have no engagement with these people outside of the fact that they are queer and were a big deal. This is when you watch TikTok and know everything about Fletcher and “Becky’s So Hot” and Shannon Beveridge, I just-

Drew: I think I’m better at just swiping past people when they bore me.

Analyssa: I watch all of that. Okay.

Riese: I know, because I’m always like, could this be a post? Could this be a post?

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah, I’m like, what’s going on?

Drew: Yeah. Okay, wait, so…

Analyssa: Okay, so…

Drew: Thank you.

Analyssa: G Flip is an Australian musician.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Queer.

Drew: Got it.

Analyssa: Always had a musician vibe. Chrishell Stause?

Riese: Strause?

Analyssa: Stause? I don’t know. Was on Selling Sunset, a show I have not watched.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: They started posting each other, being in each other’s Instagrams… And Chrishell was married on Selling Sunset, and part of the plot line was her divorce-

Drew: I see.

Analyssa: …from a man.

Drew: I see.

Analyssa: And everyone was like, Chrishell and G Flip are hanging out. Is this-

Drew: Yeah, completely unexpected.

Analyssa: Gay hanging out? It was a really weird crossover of people being like, why are these two people in the same room?

Drew: I see.

Riese: Yeah. And I guess Selling Sunset is super, super popular, right?

Analyssa: People really love Selling Sunset. I’ve never watched it.

Riese: I don’t want to watch a show about people who can afford houses that-

Analyssa: Living in LA and watching the rich people in LA, actually is painful to me… Instead of, if I lived where I grew up, I would be like, oh my God, look at those fancy houses-

Riese: I know, because I would be like, here I could afford a house.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. But anyway, they started being in each other’s Instagram posts, and everyone’s like, what the fuck? And they are dating, they’ve been together… It was a huge deal because both are very famous in their niche-

Drew: Right. Very different.

Analyssa: …communities, and then crossed over.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: And then Chrishell was in G Flip’s music video, that’s like how they launched-

Riese: And she came out on a Selling Sunset reunion or something like that. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Got it. And did we know they were going to be on the show?

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I did not.

Drew: Okay. Chrishell reveals that Gigi and Nat are engaged… I don’t know if there’s anything else you want to say about this little moment?

Analyssa: I want to know why they’re at this wedding?

Drew: Oh, don’t they say-

Analyssa: They never… No.

Drew: Don’t they know Roxy?

Analyssa: Roxy is Dani’s plus one.

Drew: No, it’s Roxy’s home. It’s Roxy’s family home.

Riese: Oh, but I thought they were surprised to see Roxy.

Analyssa: Oh… Is that why this is at-

Drew: Yeah, that was-

Riese: Oh, you’re right.

Drew: They said that it was Roxy’s family estate.

Riese: Yeah, it’s Roxy’s family.

Analyssa: Oh, I missed that completely.

Drew: I want to ask a question here. How many people do you know who have a family estate?

Analyssa: Zero.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: One.

Analyssa: Well, I have a friend who has a really rich uncle who has an estate that I’ve been to.

Drew: I need to meet some more people with family estates. That’s a good 2023 goal.

Riese: Yeah. If you are listening and you have a family estate and you would like to invite us to tour the grounds, you may, at any time. We would love to.

Analyssa: We would love to. We’ll do-

Drew: We’ll party.

Riese: Pool party.

Drew: Remember, we’ve been wanting to… But no one… Come on.

Riese: Yeah. Invite us to a pool party. I’ll bring Carol, I could also not bring Carol… It’s completely optional.

Analyssa: It’s up to you.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So yes, they bring the news that Gigi and Nat are engaged.

Riese: Which okay.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: So yeah, I guess Gigi… Anyway, Dani discovers she’s over it. And Roxy bought a house?

Drew: Yeah. No… Bought?

Analyssa: Yeah. Well, she doesn’t say it until… I think she says later… But she’s like, “I got a condo in Echo Park.” And I was like, of course.

Riese: Of course, you did.

Analyssa: Of course, you did. Sure.

Drew: I just feel like I know people who have money, for sure… But it’s just a different kind of money.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. You know the show, Succession?

Drew: I don’t watch it, but I do know of it, yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Well, they have an estate.

Analyssa: I actually got Succession vibes from when Tess is in the car with the bartender doing coke.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was a very Succession vibe.

Analyssa: I was like…

Riese: You know who else? Have you seen The Crown? If you’ve ever seen The Crown, they have an estate also.

Drew: I’ve actually listened to-

Riese: Or Harry and Megan?

Drew: I listened to the five-part, You’re Wrong About, about Princess Diana. That’s really all I know about the royals, is what is in those episodes.

Riese: Well, I’m sure they may have mentioned.

Drew: Yeah, I think they might have several estates.

Riese: Yeah, several estates, I believe that is the case. Dani apparently didn’t really believe that Roxy was going to come here and stay… But it seems like Roxy’s ready to do it.

Analyssa: Yeah. Roxy’s like, I’m here… And she’s here for Dani, and also to ruin Dre’s life.

Riese: Yeah. And they-

Analyssa: Which, that was the first time that I was bummed about the Dre thing. I was like, well, but that means that Dre’s going to be hurt, and I like Dre.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I also like Roxy, but why are we in this situation?

Drew: It’s so funny because there are ways to do… Honestly, the best love triangle is where I like everyone involved. There are ways to do that… Do you know what would be really fun? If Dre had been Dani’s date to the wedding and hooked up with Roxy somehow… If that had somehow happened.

Riese: Or they could have had group sex.

Drew: Group sex.

Riese: Yeah. This could have been like the Sense8 wedding.

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: God.

Riese: Everyone could have been in a big pile naked. And that was an option that existed on the table and nobody was willing to step up to the bat and be brave and do that-

Drew: When Gen Q gets canceled and everyone says, renew Gen Q, and they just give it a movie. The movie can end…

Riese: My Christmas special…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: We’ll end with that?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: All right.

Analyssa: Rose Rollins has returned to look really great on our TV screens.

Riese: Oh God, I love her so much.

Analyssa: I don’t think-

Riese: I also think-

Analyssa: …I think there was so much going on in the last episode when she arrived, that I don’t think we made enough commotion about how good she looks. `Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Honestly, this is the first episode where I feel like I really got it. I think in the original show I just had too many complicated military and then police feelings, to really-

Analyssa: Because you watched it recently, right? In the last five years?

Drew: Yeah, I watched The L Word for the first time in 2017.

Analyssa: Yeah. I watched it in 2019 for the first time.

Drew: So-

Riese: Yeah, I watched it as it aired, and it seemed completely unproblematic.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Absolutely.

Drew: But this… Yeah, I got it. She’s very hot.

Analyssa: Just…

Riese: Just really…

Analyssa: …amazing work.

Riese: Yeah, looks fantastic, and then is going to leave…

Analyssa: Okay, yeah-

Riese: And I’m realizing, I wrote an outline or whatever, but I think that I’m used to having already written the recap… So I would remember what happened in each scene beyond just my notes, which are like, Tasha Rescues Bette and Tina.

Drew: Yeah. That’s also all I have for that part, also-

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: …so, I don’t think a lot happens.

Analyssa: Yeah. She saws open the door, and Bette and Tina are both so thrilled to be released, and also thrilled to be looking upon Rose Rollins once more, that they give her these big hugs…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Bette has bubble wrap wrapped around her shoulders, which was delightful to me.

Riese: Imagine if they all actually said hi to each other… I feel like that’s something that they haven’t done in the past… Maybe that was Leisha, realistically they would-

Analyssa: They would know each other and acknowledge this.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Right. Yeah, that happens later with Shane also, where I was like, oh, we exist in real universe… Is this our script coordinator, friends, or is this the director, Leisha Haley?

Riese: Right. Hard to say-

Drew: Whoever it is, thank you.

Riese: Whoever it is, thank you so much.

Analyssa: But Tina’s like, “You should stay, obviously…” And Tasha has a little snark at Alice about, that’s how normal people greet each other after seeing each other for a long time… Which I thought was great.

Riese: Yeah. Also, when she was like, “You should stay…” Alice was shaking her head no. And I was sitting there like, yes, you better make her stay.

Analyssa: She has to stay.

Riese: I also realized, I think the other thing about the Sophie/Finley thing is that, the amount that I desire Tasha and Alice together… And I might desire Tasha better with someone else if I’d seen her with someone else, but this is what I saw. This is all I know. This is how I grew up. This is-

Drew: This is the way that we live.

Analyssa: This is the way that we… live.

Riese: This is the way that we live… I ship them so hard that that was able to overwhelm my Sinley shipping feelings.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Mm-hmm.

Drew: So, there’s nothing really to add that I didn’t, and we all didn’t just say in the last time we were-

Riese: Well, there is to add that I cannot believe you threw and broke a vial of $700 sperm.

Drew: Yes. Yeah. And it just is this thing where it makes both characters so in the wrong, about a thing where I’d rather neither of them be in the wrong…

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: This is the thing that I feel like we’ve been criticizing all season, which is, why does this feel cruel to both of them? When, this is a conversation that is important and that they, maybe not rationally, because it’s an emotional issue, but reasonably would have discussed a long time ago before it became this knockdown, drag out, packing my bags and leaving kind of fight.

Riese: Also, why are you packing your bags?

Analyssa: This would’ve been a totally normal thing that comes up, in the way that you talk about parents, for people who are living these realities… It’s so crazy to watch them go at each other about something that you’re kind of like, yeah, this anxiety makes sense and the conversation makes sense, why did we create these characters to have this artificial conversation that is a fight and is…

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. It just feels mean, it does not feel empathetic at all.

Riese: No. There is this part in, I think near the end of season six, where Max wakes up and Tom has left him, and he’s in a white T-shirt and underwear, and the full beard that they gave him for that season or whatever… And he’s so uncomfortable and he is so unhappy, and he just walks out of the tool shed where he’s living… Jenny’s famous tool shed. And standing there just realizing that Tom left. That’s the same way that I felt about this ending scene with Mari, where she’s left alone in the house, the broken sperm is on the ground, and Micah’s walking out… It was just really brutal. And it had that same vibe.

Drew: And again, I hope we’re wrong, but this is probably going to be the last episode… So it’s probably the last time we’re going to see these two characters. And I guess it’s nice that Micah’s in the car and calls Max… So I guess, once again, the only good thing to show does with Max, but it’s so wild to leave Mari like that.

Riese: And it’s wild, also, to have… It’s so cheap when they have you call, like you can summon an old character without actually having to summon the character…

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: If you’re going to invoke Max, send Micah to his house and have Max talk to him. Although, I don’t know what they could talk about because we’re not in reality anymore… The fact that this conversation is happening in this way at this time is just simply not true.

Drew: I just wish that they hadn’t been in this episode-

Riese: Yeah, me too.

Drew: Cut these scenes.

Riese: Yeah. And with engagement in episode eight-

Drew: Yeah, Carrie and Misty aren’t in this episode, so-

Analyssa: This is worse, this feels worse-

Drew: Why are they here? What is this? What is the point of this? Don’t have them in this episode… You don’t have enough time to get into any of these things you’re bringing up, so don’t have them in this episode. We would complain about that too, we’d be like, why aren’t these characters in the episode? But it’s better than this. And then you could have had more time to do some fun stuff at the wedding.

Riese: Yeah. Honestly, they didn’t need to put Tess in this episode either.

Analyssa: Or Hendrix.

Riese: Or Hendrix, yeah. So, back at the wedding, Shane is kind of eyeing Tess, seems to notice that Tess is under the influence of perhaps some drugs or alcohol.

Drew: But then the wedding planner pulls her away, and it doesn’t really feel like Shane’s character… Because, I don’t know. I just feel like Shane is the person who has character traits, and I feel like some of those traits would-

Analyssa: That’s a hot take.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Some of those traits would include not… Even if she and Tess are in a bad space, if she thinks that Tess has relapsed, not going off with this wedding planner, who she already had sex with… She would be like, no, I need to deal with this. That felt really weird on Shane’s part too.

Riese: Yeah, when she said it, because you’re always auto-filling the rest of the scene in your head… I was like, oh, Shane’s going to be like, absolutely not. No-

Analyssa: I did too, I thought she was going to be like, yeah, wait for me, I have something that I have to take care of first-

Riese: Right, yeah.

Analyssa: …Shane has always been unfailingly loyal. That is one thing-

Riese: And concerned about everybody’s general wellbeing.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: And I just was shocked to see her be… Especially without a line that’s like, she’s going through something, but we are broken up, so I guess it’s not my place… I would’ve been like, okay, kind of. Never addressed.

Riese: They had her do that so that Tess could walk in on them. But I think that they shouldn’t have had Shane notice Tess being drunk.

Drew: No. We’ve talked about this before but, weirdly enough, Gen Q has also really failed Shane. I don’t have as much of a political issue with that, but it’s wild how, by far, of the returning characters… Tina’s had more of an arc. This is not who Shane was in the original series. Shane was an interesting person in the original series, with a lot of qualities, and it feels like Gen Q was written by people, some of whom hadn’t even seen the original series.

Riese: Right, which we now know is possible-

Analyssa: It’s really possible, I was just about say. I wish Shane had more traits to write to other than sex. I was like, have you watched the television program?

Riese: She has so many-

Analyssa: What are you talking about?

Riese: They set up a lot of really interesting stuff with Shane.

Analyssa: She was arguably, one of the most-

Riese: She has more family history than Tina.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: …complex characters in the original, she’s got so much background.

Drew: She was working as a rent boy… She has such a past.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Wild.

Analyssa: So-

Riese: Tasha and Alice?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes. Tasha and Alice.

Riese: Tasha and Alice have a fight, which is, they start to fight about why they broke up… Tasha didn’t like Alice being famous, or didn’t want to be her plus one… But then it shifts, and it comes out… And the way that Tasha says it is a little bit weird, but whatever. That she felt like Alice was still in love with Dana and that she talked about her so much that she felt like she knew her in a way.

Analyssa: In a way.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And Alice starts freaking out.

Riese: Twinkle twinkle… And I was like, even though the fact that there were things about the fight that I didn’t care for, I was pleased at how it was resolved.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wait, for someone who does not have an encyclopedic knowledge of The L Word, aka me…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: What seasons were Tasha and Alice together?

Riese: They met mid-season four, and then they were together for most of season five… They broke up for two episodes and got back together, and then they were together for season six, but got involved with this other person too, Jamie-

Analyssa: I remember…

Riese: …And it this weird love triangle thing.

Analyssa: I do remember that.

Riese: But at the end, Tasha came back to Alice.

Drew: Tasha gets introduced in my favorite episode of the show, right? Luck Be a Lady?

Riese: That’s her second episode.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Yeah. That’s her second episode.

Analyssa: Okay. Thank you.

Riese: They meet at the bar after Jenny and Alice have the fight about Monet, and stealing people’s ideas, and Alice is wearing the hat and the vest.

Analyssa: That scene is-

Drew: What a great… I don’t want to romanticize the original series, I’m aware that there are problems, but the difference of how I feel about a show that had problems made from 2004 to 2009 is just different than how I feel about a show being made now. So, I have a lot of love for the original series, and I won’t apologize for it.

Analyssa: That scene circulates on my TikTok every once in a while, and I watch it in full every single time. The Monet argument-

Riese: Yeah, it’s good.

Analyssa: It’s so good.

Riese: It’s perfect.

Drew: Didn’t we get a moment where a wedding planner tells Shane that she’s married, but that she’s open? We also learned that she’s from Glendale, but whatever. And Shane is like, “Oh, and that works for you?”

Riese: But I feel like this was another one of those things where I was like, finally addressing this issue-

Drew: Sure-

Riese: But it felt like it was something added on in this episode to make up for the sins of many, I don’t know, seasons past.

Drew: Right. And then they start kissing again and then Tess sees. And then the wedding starts? Tina’s in a red velvet suit and Bette’s in a black suit, and then it’s interrupted because Tess is screaming at Shane in the middle of the wedding, runs into the cake, ruins the cake…

Riese: I talked to Gretchen earlier, and I was like, I didn’t want to tell her anything about the episode, but I was like, “Yeah, the Tess stuff is really bad.” And she was like, “What, does she get wasted and fall into the cake?” And I told her ahead… I was like, “I’m not going to tell you anything, I want you to watch it blind. I’m not giving you any spoils.” And I was like-

Analyssa: Well.

Riese: “She did. She did actually get drunk and fall into the cake.” So I have to-

Drew: There’s one moment that I liked, which is Pippa saying to Sophie, “This particular friend group is full of drama…” And there was one moment that bothered me even more, because after having even just a brief introduction from Elise, who Chrishell and G Flip are… When Tess yells, “Any ladies out there want to be Shane’s next conquest?” And they both raised their hands… I’m like, oh, we’re doing a fun little joke with these famous white queers… And it just was like, oh, right, you care about Fletcher, you care about Chrishell and G Flip, you don’t care about…

Analyssa: Well, I’m-

Riese: I did laugh.

Analyssa: I also did laugh at that joke, but the rest of the stuff around it, is so… Again, just cruel to Tess. The whole thing is written for comedy, the wedding planner has all these asides of like, well, that’s just perfect, that’s how my day is going… It’s all side-showy. Everyone is pointing and laughing at Tess. It’s literally-

Drew: Honestly, this is what reminded me of the Max baby shower.

Analyssa: …it’s like schoolyard bullying. I just am inviting anyone to remember that this is a television show, where people are made up. So even to say, relapses happen… Okay, fine. Relapses happen and you can really spiral, all the coke that she uses… Okay, sure. Relapses happen and you make a scene… Okay, but why do I have to watch that, and why did you have to write that? Why are you so compelled? People who are alcoholics or not alcoholics know that the possibility of relapse exists… Don’t need to show it to them. So then you’re just showing it to who? People who have not experienced it before? I guarantee you they’ve seen this on TV before.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Especially done this poorly and cheaply.

Analyssa: There is no need… It just made me so uncomfortable. The whole thing is so uncomfortable. And the end scene of Tess leaving, which we’ll get to, I’m sure. Also, I didn’t understand what they want me to feel…

Drew: I’m going to say something that I might get in trouble for, but I’m going to even let Lauren keep it in, I think… Which is that, I think that trans actors can play cis. I think a lot of trans actors… I talked to someone who watched the entire first season of Euphoria and did not know that Hunter Schafer was trans. Which is wild, because it’s pretty explicitly stated… But did not catch that.

Riese: Yeah. It is pretty big-

Drew: Yeah. Cis people do not know, so I’m not saying this from a place of I don’t think that trans actors should get to play parts that are cis, whatever… But, as a trans audience member, Jamie Clayton is trans. Not because I know who Jamie Clayton is, and I know that she’s trans… I can tell that she’s trans. I can usually tell that people are trans. And her voice is a trans woman’s voice. It’s feminine… I don’t say that with negative connotations. It’s a more cis passing voice than mine is. I don’t think there’s value in being cis passing.

Riese: Right.

Drew: So whether or not Tess is trans, which obviously she’s not, we’ve covered this many times. I’m watching that happen to a trans person-

Riese: Also, we know because we are involved in the macro world around the show… But people, when I talk to them about the show, they’ll say Tess is a trans character. They have no idea that she’s not supposed to be. So I promise you, probably half the people watching this show do think that it’s a trans character.

Drew: Right. So, I don’t think we need to pretend, even trans women who look like Jamie Clayton, aren’t still clockable in some ways, and that it’s just so… it’s so brutal.

Analyssa: It’s just humiliation in such a needless way-

Riese: Yeah, I don’t think they needed it.

Analyssa: …It’s such a pile on. It feels unnecessary.

Riese: I don’t think we needed her in the episode at all.

Drew: No.

Riese: I don’t know, bring back Molly or something… Everyone else is coming back. Shane didn’t need that.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: So Finley hustles Tess out of the venue, finally… Shane tries and it doesn’t really work, and Finley finally gets Tess outside, and then this man who has driven off the set of Succession, pulls up, and is like, “Do you want to get in my car?”

Drew: Who is he? Who is this man?

Analyssa: No, no. And Tess says she doesn’t want to be sober, she just wants to have fun with her friends… Who are her friends? We don’t know what she’s talking about. And is like, “Finley, you have to let me go.” And I was like, what am I supposed to be believing here?-

Riese: For either of them, I don’t really know what’s going on or what the point of this is.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So that whole plot, throw it in the garbage to me. So, Tess leaving and demolishing the cake, an infuriating choice. But then, we do get what I think is delightful. Alice, Tina, Shane, and Bette have reassembled the cake into a mound, and put the little topper on it. And this whole shot of them eyeballing the cake and moving around the cake and talking about it, I was like, amazing.

Riese: Yeah. And with all their heads tilted.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: It reminded me of how little of that type of comedy we get to see on this show, actually.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: But it was one of those cases of this episode where, yeah, it’s really fun, it also makes the contrast even more clear… If Bette and Tina were yelling at Shane about being selfish, then I’d be like, okay, this show is so dramatic… Oh my God. But having this really sweet moment of comedy where we get some references to Alice dating the vampire… That was on my Gen Q wishlist before the show started, that we bring back the vampire.

Riese: Honestly, it’s slander of the vampire, because they were talking about these things as mistakes-

Drew: Yeah, the vampire was great. That was the hottest sex scene in L Word history.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re like, let me list off the biggest, most worst things I’ve done to other people… And Alice’s was not, outed Daryl Brewer… As was a plot line really recently. They’re like, “You dated that vampire.”

Riese: Right. I don’t know… Dana-

Analyssa: Stalking Dana.

Drew: Stalking Dana.

Riese: Stalking Dana, and also Tina saying, “Leaving Bette for Carrie.” That’s-

Drew: That’s not bad, that was good.

Riese: Here’s what’s bad, Henry… Daddyof2

Analyssa: DaddyOf2

Drew: Daddyof2. Yeah. But Bette says, Bette slept with Candace in jail. They bring that a ton up-

Riese: Again, another hot scene.

Drew: A hot scene. But this season hates sex.

Riese: They do. Bette could have said, I slept with my intern Nadia, for example.

Drew: Yeah. And now I’m having to reflect on that because my daughter has had an affair with her professor.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Wait, what was Shane’s bad thing? Is that when they-

Analyssa: Left Carmen.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was bad.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That one, yeah. Pretty much, I have no argument with that.

Riese: Right. Then we have the ceremony.

Analyssa: So yeah, then it’s time for the vows from Tina-

Riese: Ilene Chaiken.

Analyssa: They walk down the aisle, they do their vows, Alice has gotten ordained for it, and there are cuts to the audience, and Ilene Chaiken is there in her billowiest white top-

Riese: Just the clothes she wore to set that day, to say hi, when you know that someone was like, oh my god, Ilene be in the scene.

Analyssa: You have to come to the Tina and Bette wedding. And if we can get her on camera, we will. Yeah, absolutely.

Drew: I think that Gen Q should have gone the And Just Like That… route. And Just Like That… has-

Riese: Killed Mr. Big on a Peloton?

Drew: …has new characters, but it is very much like, “No, we’re just continuing this story.” Because ultimately, that’s what this show has done, right? I mean, even though Bette and Tina were gone most of the season, they still had a big hold on it, right? And when they were gone, it was to give Alice and Shane their moments. It’s what they do best. Sophie could have been at work for Alice. The way that the connections existed could have existed.

Riese: Yeah. Micah could have dated Alice.

Drew: Yeah, sure, whatever. They should have just done that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Because then right after, we have the vows and it’s very sweet and we get this moment. Then Alice apologizes to Tasha and Tasha’s like, “You’ve never said sorry before,” and they make up and Alice asks Tasha to dance and it’s great. It’s so-

Riese: Yeah. I also cried. I thought what she said was really good, where she was like, “I tried to be so busy to not think about Dana.” It was like wow, really vulnerable, and then they were going to go dance and I was so excited.

Drew: So Bette and Tina are dancing, Shane and Angie chat, and then Angie’s like, “I’m going to go call Bella.”

Riese: Yeah. Also, Shane asked Angie to dance and she rejects Shane.

Drew: Yeah, that’s pretty brutal.

Riese: And Shane’s dying to dance with somebody.

Analyssa: Can someone dance with me, please? And then-

Riese: Dani can’t believe that Roxy’s staying.

Analyssa: Oh, yeah. Dani’s like, “Is it a month-to-month lease?” And that’s when Roxy’s like, “I bought it. I own it. It’s mine.” And I was like, “Right, Dani’s really wealthy so Dani’s friends are really wealthy.”

Riese: Right, yeah. Maybe Chrishel sold her that house.

Drew: Well, that probably makes sense.

Analyssa: Yeah, maybe that’s why they know each other. And then Finley comes over to Shane.

Riese: This was so weird.

Analyssa: And having seen Tess relapse, I think is the point, is like there’s-

Riese: I have no idea.

Analyssa: …more sides to this story than I thought there were. So now I’m sorry that I yelled at you.

Riese: Yeah, because this also felt like a thing where I was like, “Good, they’re acknowledging that Finley yelling at Shane was stupid.” But that has nothing to do with Tess going through a lot of stuff. It was stupid regardless.

Analyssa: To begin with.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. And then Shane asks Finley to dance.

Riese: Yeah. Shane just really wants… And Finley’s like, “Okay.” And then Shane says, “Hi, Tasha.” Thank you for replicating real world actions.

Analyssa: And shoots Alice some eyes as she says, she’s like, “Mm-hmm.”

Riese: And they’re dancing, it’s so cute.

Drew: They’re dancing. It’s very cute.

Riese: I’m so happy for them.

Drew: And then Tina asks Bette to leave to go to their room and the scooter or the golf cart doesn’t work because-

Riese: Pippa and Sophie-

Drew: …Pippa and Sophie-

Riese: …took it to the cow field.

Drew: Which is fun.

Analyssa: They’re going to walk.

Drew: But they’re going to walk.

Analyssa: As wives, they say.

Riese: Wives and wives going down a long path of love.

Drew: And so we get a little end montage with some fun things. One actual fun thing is Pippa and Sophie make out, which I love that, happy sendoff to these characters. Wonderful. And this is a good excuse to just say this, that I didn’t realize this because I talk to you two and I talk to my friends who all have good taste, but there’s so many… I ended up on Gen Q TikTok, and people hate Sophie.

Analyssa: Really?

Drew: And it just feels like racism to me.

Analyssa: Oh, that 100%.

Riese: Oh, yeah. I mean, I haven’t seen it, but I just know because someone told us about it in our comments.

Analyssa: That has… There’s no other reason.

Drew: Yeah, it’s just so overt. But I’m so happy that Sophie gets this ending with Pippa. It’s great, makes me really happy.

Analyssa: Sophie’s like, “We could get a room,” and I was like, yes, give me five more minutes and they go get a room, please.

Drew: And it’s just them fucking.

Analyssa: Just getting edged by them, but that’s fine.

Riese: Right. But I don’t know. I like Pippa kind of bossing her around.

Analyssa: Yeah, big time.

Riese: Being like that this is the pace and this is what we’re doing.

Drew: Yeah, it’s good. Then Dani and Roxy are kissing and Dre walks up, which again, it’s just like-

Riese: What?

Drew: …this obviously isn’t as bad as what happens with Micah or what happens with Tess, but it still is like, “Okay, so we have this other trans character and it’s like, we’re ending with them being rejected.” It also is the kind of ending that there’s just, there are ways to end a season where you end it. The way you leave stories open-ended doesn’t feel so cliffhangery when you might not get another season. There are shows that have done it really well where yeah, you can tell that they should have had more time and there are things that are left unresolved, but it mostly feels coherent where this is what a weird way to end with this character who we barely even know at this point. Just don’t have Dre come back. If you get another season, it can be some conflict-

Analyssa: That’s a question.

Drew: …but just don’t have Dre come back if-

Riese: I’m happy for Carmen that they got paid for another episode.

Drew: True. Yeah.

Riese: But yeah, because also the fact that Dani left that voicemail is already a cliffhanger enough. We know Dre’s going to listen to it, we don’t know how they’re going to feel about it, but there’s some implication that they expect or Dre to pursue it some way.

Drew: Or Dre calling even, it’d be like, “Oh, shit, Dre’s calling.”

Riese: Yeah, Dre’s calling. Yeah.

Drew: Fine. That’s it.

Riese: Yeah. It could’ve even shown Dre calling so that Carmen had gotten paid for the episode.

Analyssa: So that Carmen still… Yeah.

Drew: And then the last one, which is so atrocious, which is, well, not the last one, but the next thing which is Finley gets a call from the police about Tess.

Analyssa: Perfect.

Drew: Which could be anything.

Analyssa: Anything.

Drew: That could be a death, right?

Riese: It could be death, it could be DUI, it could be arrest for cocaine possession, it could be car accident, it could be kitten in a tree.

Analyssa: I’ll tell you what it’s probably not, something fun or good.

Drew: Sure. I’m just saying-

Riese: It’s not going to be death, but…

Drew: But again, this could be the last episode, so we are ending with the possibility that she died. And we finally got to talk to the cops. They’ve been wanting to do it all season.

Riese: I know. They’re like, “We’ve got one more opportunity.” Meanwhile, I was looking at the time code being like, wait, they’re not going to have Bella walk into the wedding?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: So then we end with Bette and Tina-

Analyssa: No.

Drew: … walking off into the proverbial sunset. And again, that’s what they wanted to do and they did it right, so Gen Q, really, the main error it made up for was Ilene Chaiken’s bonkers sixth season that turned her lesbian romance into a murder show for some reason. And they didn’t really do it because I have a lot more affection for Jenny than I do for Bette and Tina as a couple.

Riese: I have so much affection for Jenny that twisted, twisted weirdo.

Analyssa: Yeah. Sick, sick freak.

Riese: That sick gorgeous woman.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: And that’s the episode and that’s the season. And that might be The L Word.

Riese: Except for the Christmas special.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Except for the Christmas special.

Riese: So I loved all of the scenes that were shot at the wedding that didn’t involve Tess. And I think I could easily come up with a few things they could have added to that package for the episode that would not have been what instead was…

Analyssa: Yeah, I was really surprised. The Tess one was the big one, of that this really did not have a vibe of potential series finale. It’s just a surprising choice, not even for The L Word: Gen Q specifically, but just in the era of most shows get three seasons if they’re lucky and that’s like it.

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: So you would think that any show would be like, “Okay, how do we land enough planes that it feels like a total complete thing, and leave enough kind of questions that if we came back, it would be fun and interesting and there’s still stuff to explore?” And I feel like the Tess thing, was especially jarring where I was like, “That actually is a question that would need an answer.” So if this-

Riese: And also, again, her driving off that guy was already a cliffhanger. They didn’t need the whole fucking story. But if they were going to do it, that could’ve ended right there.

Drew: Also, there are ways to have cliffhanger endings that the, I know a lot of people hate the ending of The Sopranos, but that pointedly has… There are ways to have cliffhangers. I mean, I’m so happy it got a season three, but the end of season two of Sort Of, I’m not going to spoil it if you’re behind because you should really catch it up and watch the show, it’s incredible, it ends with a really huge cliffhanger. But if the show had been canceled, it would’ve been a cliffhanger in a open-ended story, that there feels like a closure of an architecture, there’s that word again. And there are ways to do that. And the open-ended things here don’t. The same way that Dre hadn’t shown up, but there had just been the specter of Dre, then you still have this feeling of, what is Dani going to choose in her life? But the way that it’s shot is end of an episode cliffhangers, not end of season even cliffhangers.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: They’re also though historically really bad at cliffhangers, not just at the execution of the cliffhanger, but then what happens next. The cliffhanger with Sophie at the airport and then bring us back to her wedding, and with not a single, no idea what happened after that. Why did you do that? And to have Carrie have a heart attack and Finley be in in the next episode open, just sitting on couch-

Analyssa: Just completely… Yeah.

Riese: …and she’s in the next one. You guys, like someone, I mean, again-

Analyssa: And then in the Gigi car crash too, same thing.

Riese: Yeah, car crash. These sort of like, they love to put someone on a cliff and then drive up to the cliff in a really nice sports car and be like, “Hey, get in, let’s go back down.” No one ever jumps.

Analyssa: Or falls.

Drew: I mean, it’s partially because Marja had no TV experience, that she does not understand how TV works. I mean, and it’s something we’ve talked about in the sense that it’s like, I mean, I certainly don’t begrudge her taking the job, anyone would take the job, but-

Riese: Right. I too have no experience but would’ve happily taken the job.

Drew: Yes. But I mean, it is just this thing where-

Riese: Although now, I actually don’t know if I would do that because after seeing this, I’m like, I don’t know.

Drew: I mean, it’s just something that’s lost with how TV is made now, and it’s a real shame to not have. Not that, I mean, there are some ways that people getting opportunities who wouldn’t otherwise get opportunities who don’t have years of working in writers’ rooms, that gives opportunities to new people. And that’s great. But there’s the flip side of it, which is when someone truly has not worked on a TV show before, there’s going to be a real steep learning curve. And it’d be hard for anybody. So it’s why I think a lot of times new showrunners have a co-showrunner. I mean, I think about someone like Rachel Bloom who was… actually, she wasn’t new to TV, she’d written on Robot Chicken, but-

Analyssa: But that type of TV especially.

Drew: Yeah. And so she was paired with Aline Brosh McKenna, or going back to Girls, like Lena Dunham and Judd Apatow and whatever, and these things that, there is value in having that sort of mentor, mentee, co-showrunnership. And even though it’s clear that Ilene Chaiken handpicked Marja-Lewis Ryan, Ilene Chaiken wasn’t running the show.

Analyssa: Right, or in the room. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, imagine if, sure, I mean, Marja-Lewis Ryan wouldn’t have been my person who’d written one gay screenplay choice, but imagine if a younger queer person who’d written one gay screenplay was paired with Angela Robinson or someone who was just a real legend of the industry who worked on the original show, and there could have been so much… We wouldn’t have had to witness someone basically go to film school, go to the TV version of film school. And it’s so frustrating because there’s so many people who are so talented who just don’t get opportunities. So it’s a real bummer. Remember last year when I said that I wasn’t going to come back?

Riese: Yeah. I mean I guess, there’s some good things that were set up, like Tasha and Alice, Bella and Angie, but they also didn’t set up anything for Shane really.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Finley doesn’t really have anything that she’s looking toward.

Riese: Besides maybe going to school. And honestly, she’s not living in a sublet where she has to clap to make roaches go away, I don’t think.

Analyssa: No.

Riese: Also, if you’re going to… Whatever. At least we didn’t have to go to her apartment. That was really going to be painful for me to experience.

Drew: Yeah. I know.

Analyssa: They brought in some storylines in ways that were delightful and look like they can arrow out if the show comes back, and if not, I get to live happily with the idea that Sophie and Pippa have a wonderful romance and they live together as long as they want to. But I’m just stuck on the Tess thing because it feels like they have an answer in mind of what happens. And if the show doesn’t come back, you will never know.

Riese: I don’t know if they do, because remember when season six ended and everyone was like, “Wait, so who killed Jenny?” And Ilene was like, “Oh, I don’t know, I didn’t write it. I didn’t know when I wrote…” And I’m like, even if you don’t reveal it, you have to know, as the writer.

Analyssa: You have an idea.

Riese: You have to know. You can’t write to an unknown. What? That’s like writing 101. So I don’t think they know.

Analyssa: Right. So-

Riese: Because also the way that, I don’t even get this police, why did she say it was Tess calling? Tess made Finley her emergency contact already? I don’t know.

Drew: Do police officers take a cellphone from someone and call the most recent called number? Because that does not seem like something a cop would do.

Riese: No, it doesn’t.

Drew: Unless she’s dead. Unless because-

Riese: Oh.

Drew: …if she’s in-

Analyssa: And they can’t ask her anything.

Drew: …if she’s in jail, then eventually she would get to make a call. It would be from an unknown number, it wouldn’t be from… I mean, unless they gave her cellphone back. I don’t, but…

Riese: Again-

Drew: What?

Riese: …Marja would be committing a hate crime on the community and herself if she actually killed Tess.

Analyssa: That would be wild. Although, much like the Sophie thing, there are a lot of Tess despisers out there, which also feels very nasty.

Drew: Yeah, which some of it’s transphobia and some of it’s racism for those two characters. And some of it’s how they’ve been written and how they’ve been treated and how they’re treated by Marja, who has her own biases.

Riese: Right. Well, I also think some of these characters have, like Sophie has flaws.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And I think that’s what weird, is people, they want to… In order to a character, you have to all their choices or behaviors. No, Jenny, for example, my all-time best friend, Jenny Schecter, she was an unhinged mess. But I love her and I connected to her in a certain way, in a good and bad.

Drew: The internet’s fave.

Analyssa: That’s how I feel about Alice personally. Alice is such a mess-

Riese: Right, Alice is my problematic fave.

Analyssa: …and yeah, so problematic and has done so much, honestly-

Riese: Harm.

Analyssa: …bad stuff in her life. And still, I watch her and I’m like, “I understand you. I care for you.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Because we also are all flawed.

Drew: It’s true.

Analyssa: Not me, though.

Drew: I mean, of the new people who the internet loves, Dani was a Sackler, question mark? Gigi worked in real estate. They’re not perfect.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Gigi works in real estate?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Gigi came to Alice and Nat’s home and-

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: …hammered a nail into their front door. That is scary behavior. And still, I was like, I love her. I’d die for her.

Riese: They need her on the show. They really do.

Drew: Well, you know what I hope? I’m putting all of my energy and prayer into A League of Their Own.

Riese: A League of Their Own.

Drew: I have nothing left for season four of Gen Q, sorry to the cast and crew, some of whom I do deeply love. But…

Riese: What about the Christmas special?

Drew: I mean, if they want to do a wrap-up movie, I would love that.

Riese: Okay. Thank you.

Drew: Especially if you got to write it.

Riese: Thank you so much. I appreciate your support.

Drew: But I just want A League of Their Own to come back. Talk about a reboot that’s so good. I mean, I know it’s a different kind of reboot, but oh, what a great show A League of Their Own is.

Riese: So good. Yeah. In part made by another former L Word person, Jamie Babbit, the director.

Analyssa: Oh, fun.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I mean, this is the thing, this is what I would love to see out of The L Word: Gen Q reboot that potentially is not moving forward, is more awareness of these queer people who worked on the show to then go… I would love to see Micah and Maribel and Sophie, all those people in new things now. And I will follow most of them to whatever they do next.

Riese: Including Christmas.

Analyssa: Including obviously first the Christmas special. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, I mean, it’ll be-

Riese: Yeah, agreed. A hard agree on that.

Analyssa: And watching, I don’t know, seeing that Leisha and Kate directed episodes, I wonder if there’s a shift for them into directing more. Or like we said when Roxy first showed up, seeing someone be in these smaller queer roles a few years before they’re going to get some-

Riese: Yeah, I think she’s going to be big. Yeah.

Analyssa: That is always a really cool feeling, and I think is one of the best things to come out of the franchise.

Drew: I just hope that the industry has spots for…

Analyssa: Definitely.

Drew: I mean, I just look at Pose and obviously, I mean, I saw Billy Porter on Broadway years ago and he’s such an incredible talent and I’m so glad that it took being in a cast filled with trans women of color for him to be the one with privilege and to be able to make a career out of a part. And not that, I mean, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez has had stuff, but he’s definitely the person who post-Pose has had a real career bump and fame bump. And I just hope that it’s not just Jacqueline Toboni, I hope. And she’s great, I really hope that she is in a bunch of stuff, but I just, I hope there are parts for Leo and parts for Jillian and parts for Daniel and so many other people in the cast who are great.

Riese: Yeah. You know Ari was in a Hallmark movie of some kind where she was a lesbian doctor.

Analyssa: I did see the commercials for that. I should watch that.

Riese: I saw a clip of that on TikTok and I thought, “What?” I want to see Rosanny on a Crazy Ex-Girlfriend reboot.

Drew: I really want to see Rosanny in something.

Riese: I want to see her singing more. I love her.

Drew: She’s definitely been one of the real joys of watching The L Word, from the beginning, from watching Gen Q, I mean.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: You guys did so well switching back to their real names. I got so… My brain had been in character mode so much that I was like, “Ah, what?”

Riese: Yeah. You remember once upon a time, we were in that theater at the LGBT Center meeting them for the first time before the To L and Back: Generation Q Edition podcast.

Analyssa: It’s so wild.

Drew: I’m going to throw something out, which is, regardless of whether Gen Q improved over its three seasons, I know that I improved and I feel like you both have improved. And I think we’ve all been on a… Since that night, I think we’ve all come so far as people-

Riese: I mean, that is true.

Drew: …as queers, as sisterhood is powerful. I really just think that we’ve really grown a lot and I’m really proud of us.

Riese: Yeah, we really have. Me too. That week was so messy.

Analyssa: That week was incredibly messy.

Riese: There were so many parties. So many parties. Every day, I was so profoundly hungover, it was like my insides are being scraped out with a spork from Kentucky Fried Chicken that had been sitting in my drawer since 1975.

Drew: That was specific. Yeah. So I’m like, hey, let’s celebrate that.

Riese: Yeah, let’s celebrate that.

Analyssa: Let’s celebrate that, for us as lesbians.

Riese: For us as lesbians, growth, and for us as lesbians, sisterhood is powerful. And I think that-

Drew: That is it.

Riese: That’s it.

Analyssa: That’s what matters.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L And Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter, @tolandback, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented, Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by Jax Co. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram, @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere, @Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram, @Analocaa with two As, and on Twitter, @Analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @Autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle, and of course, the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this up, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Drew: Three, two, one — qualifiers.

Riese: Quince meat! You can see a quincemeat twinkle in my eye.

Drew: Can I ask something that I’ve been meaning to Google?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Is quincemeat actually a thing?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: No.

Drew: Okay, I didn’t think so. I didn’t think so.

Analyssa: Riese made that up this season!

Drew: I know. Yeah, I thought it was like a mincemeat pie, and you just started saying quince meat. I guess there was one part of me that thought that for the whole time and then was like, “Wait, what if it’s actually a real thing and I have been missing it?”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Great. Glad we’re on the same page. What did you say, Ana?

Riese: Yeah, it’s-

Analyssa: I didn’t say anything because I was laughing so hard at Riese. But my word was going to be quintuplets because it’s the longest Q word I could think of, and also, because I would love to see Rosanny Zayas play quintuplets for no reason.

Drew: Oh, fun.

Analyssa: I don’t know, like an Orphan Black kind of situation.

Drew: Like identical. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I think she could do it.

Analyssa: Five different roles.

Drew: I said qualifiers because when I say that I love The L Word and it holds a special place in my heart, I have to always have some qualifiers.

Riese: Oh wow, that’s good.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: That’s amazing. Well, thanks, you guys. Thanks so much for listening. If you love us a lot, we’ll make a link to our Autostraddle donor box and you can feel free to give us some money.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And thanks for coming along.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I don’t know why you feel like I need to whisper now.

Drew: I feel, it’s so annoying because the show’s so annoying but now I feel emotional that it’s over.

Analyssa: As soon as it ends, I’m like, “Please, no.” I’m like in a situationship with The L Word.

Riese: Yeah, no, I mean, I want it to come back, but I do, it’s hard for me to separate that from-

Drew: No. Some of it-

Riese: …my business interests in it.

Drew: Yeah, I also, I also.

Analyssa: For sure. I mean, same. We all have a vested interest in this show existing.

Riese: Yeah. We’re part of the industry.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: You know what I mean? It’s like, The L Word is a war, we manufacture bombs.

Drew: Wow. Geez. That is an apt metaphor.

Riese: I did that one for you because I know how you love the military.

Drew: Thanks for that. And on that note.


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Analyssa

Analyssa is a co-host of the To L and Back podcast: Gen Q edition. She lives in LA, works at a TV studio, and can often be found binge-watching an ABC drama from 2008. You can follow her on Twitter, Instagram, or her social media of choice, Letterboxd.

Analyssa has written 52 articles for us.

37 Comments

  1. One can dislike Sophie without that feeling being rooted in racism. Sophie is a flawed character and I personally had a really hard time with her cheating, knowing that cheating was a dealbreaker for Dani, and hiding that action from Dani. There are many POC characters who are huge fan favorites and dislike of Sophie has many causes, not simply racism.

    It was hard for me to be introduced to a long term couple in S1 who clearly didn’t know each other well – and for both of them to misread what the other needed – Sophie’s insistence that Dani share her feelings immediately after challenging events, Dani’s inability to read that Sophie needed her at the hospital, etc. Sophie’s cheating on Dani, knowing Dani had trust issues and that cheating was a dealbreaker, and going forward with the wedding really turned me off. I wasn’t that invested in Sinley, but also had a hard time with her choices in that relationship.

    I’ve actually learned to like her more in season 3, and I’m really excited about her potential relationship with Pippa.

    • Gosh I couldn’t agree more! I’m a big Sinley shipper and I was always rooting for those two, despite both characters having a lot of flaws. It was only in season 2 and 3 that I really started disliking Sophie. What’s interesting is that I think the show was writing Sophie in a way where they wanted folks to say hell yea, you do you Sophie! But because the writing was handled so poorly and the character’s actions were so inconsistent or borderline non-sensical, she became a little bit of an unintended villain.

      All is to say, I’m sure that like in life, there’s a certain subset of fans who are gonna hate just to hate, but feels a little cheap to write ALL of that frustration with Sophie’s character off as racism.

      I’m here for Sophie, I want her to win, but Sophie season 1 and Sophie season 2 and 3 are like different people.

    • It’s extremely telling that you took “there is an overwhelming dislike for this Black character that’s outsized given her actions” and decided that meant “no individual can dislike Sophie without being racist.” I can tell you definitively that this fandom is anti-Black as hell, and I’m glad that Drew mentioned it. Your dislike for Sophie for whatever “good reasons” you have don’t discount the truth of that.

      • I agree with Lola. The l word franchise has a large fandom, and portions of it are both extremely transphobic and extremely racist – I stumbled upon a certain infamous chat board as a young teen watching and remembering not wanting to watch anymore after seeing what fans said. That certainly accounts for some of the population disliking Sophie, even if there are valid reasons to dislike her.

        But I think many of those valid reasons are a result of choices in the writers room influenced by some of their own unexamined racism. Marja’s recent interview revealed a lot to me – where she said it was a white lesbian show because she is white lesbian, that she “made Sepideh”, that she struggles with character arcs for experiences she’s less familiar with, etc – left me incredibly uncomfortable. IMHO whatever is going on with Marja’s own racism impacted the creation and writing of the character of Sophie, resulting in a character that is at times more challenging to like – for example, we get a much more nuanced examination of Finley’s issues in season one that absolutely could have been written in a different light without the sympathy for the character that helps the audience understand why they made that decision. I cannot comprehend a world where one would say those things and not have some level of anti-blackness impacting the creation of Sophie.

      • I haven’t listen to the podcast this week yet but I think that if you look at how Sophie has legitimately not done anything worse than the absolutely beloved original characters, but she gets the pile on and they don’t; there’s a reason why…

    • I agree, I thought that racism comment was harsh. I was willing to like Sophie and was invested in Sinley but the way she treated Finley didn’t sit right with me.
      And I think Rosanny Zayas is a great singer, but as an actor she is not at the level of someone like Mia Kirshner, who could pull off a complex and flawed character so well.
      I do like Sophie in comedic scenes though and I liked her sibling dynamic with Maribel as well. Just not a big fan in terms of how interesting the character is vs. the amount of screen time she was given.

    • There are many characters who got uneven storylines or unlikable actions who aren’t getting the amount of hate that Sophie is, and I think from both a writing perspective and an audience perspective that is largely an anti-Black issue. If people feel they, personally, are not racist and have good reasons for not liking Sophie, that’s their business!! Art is subjective and we can all have different opinions!! That doesn’t change the overarching factors at play, and it’s genuinely surprising to me that the aside is being read as worthy of commenting on here

    • “One can dislike Sophie without that feeling being rooted in racism.”

      I’m the one who made the comment that prompted this discussion.
      I never said and the comments that followed never stated “not liking Sophie is rooted in racism.”

      The conversation referenced the overwhelming dislike for Sophie, when other characters never received that ire for similar shitty actions.

      We then started discussing the transphobia, fatphobia, colorism, and overwhelming racism in the “L Word” and “Gen Q” fandom.

      If you’re going to reference my comment and the subsequent discussion refrain from misrepresenting what was said. You can also refrain from commenting on a topic you are not educated on.

      If this comment sounds harsh it’s because I’m tired of pointing out racism and then being called “harsh” or “overdramatic.”

      If it bothers you that I’m responding to your comment here, I’m also bothered by being referenced for my comment weeks later (on multiple comment sections throughout this site) when the original discussion has been misrepresented over and over.

      I reiterate: You can dislike any character you want. The issue is that “there is an overwhelming dislike for this Black character that’s outsized given her actions” (I’m quoting Lola here)

      I took a second to respond to this comment because I wanted to think about my response and I did not want to respond from an emotional place.

      • Relax. This is what makes this fandom toxic as all hell. People are just sharing their experiences with the show, a piece of entertainment, and then someone like yourself comes in calling names and bringing the negativity. It’s fundamentally not racist to dislike Sophie or transphobic to dislike Tess. If those are the rules you’re living your life by, you’re really missing all the grey in between. Which is ironic, because I think that’s the point you’re trying to make.

        Let’s focus on the real problem and direct our critique towards what/who is at the heart of the issue, which is bad writing and a general mishandling of the content by Marja.

        • I fear what makes the fandom toxic is people insisting on arguing this point rather than hearing the experience of trans people and POC and being able to say “that doesn’t apply to me, I’ll move on.”

          If someone, individually, feel they dislike Sophie for solely pure reasons, okay great! Why do they feel the need to have US absolve them of that? I don’t care who people personally like or don’t but I do care how the onslaught of hate is affecting marginalized groups who literally just want to watch a gay hookup show.

          And I don’t think there’s any need to “focus on the real problem,” many truths can be true at once.

          • “I fear what makes the fandom toxic is people insisting on arguing this point rather than Hearing The Experience Of Trans People And POC And Being Able To Say ‘that doesn’t apply to me, I’ll move on.’ – Analyssa,yes 🎯
            My kingdom for a world in general where ppl say to themselves ‘that doesn’t apply to me, *I’ll move on*’
            (see also: not all [fill in the blank])

    • All of this. I think Sophie has potential. But she doesn’t see her flaws. Like, the way she split with Finley & the reason for it was just ridiculous. I do think a Pippa/Sophie connection might be a good way to help grow the character, but I don’t see it lasting long term. I still want Sophie & Finley to figure out that they belong together. And I say that realizing Finley needs some time to continue growing, too. Frankly, I would like her with Shane (romantically or not, I don’t care) for a while. I think those two really have potential as characters who can spur each others’ growth. Frankly, at this point, these 4 characters, plus Alice & Tasha, and Angie/Bella are the only ones I like.

      I have to listen to the episode still… I just saw the written intro on Spotify & said something about this episode working as a series finale, and I gotta just say….. NO. No it most assuredly does NOT work as a series finale. There are too many things I still want to know.

      They need to say they’ll do a season 4, and that it will definitively be the last one.

  2. Just to add to Drew’s point about Jamie/Tess (which I’m glad was left in!), I’m also pretty sure based on what we know about Marja that the cis Tess she’s writing for Jamie is different from the one she’d write for a cis actress. I don’t think anyone really thought past “let’s have a trans actress playing a cis character” (how that would/could be done well and what it would mean in terms of representation), therefore the portrayal of Tess we get in the context of this show does feel like it was written through trans-colored glasses by someone whose glasses need cleaning.

    • Also glad this was left in!! I’ve seen folks in these very comments be attacked for voicing that Jaime Clayton clocks as trans to some degree, and that as a viewer that fact creates complications when absorbing the character of Tess. So I’m glad to hear Drew also share that observation, because I think the point is that it not only does a disservice to Tess and the show, but trans people more broadly.

      If Tess is supposed to be cis, it doesn’t line up with what comes across on screen. And it’s actually why precisely because of that point, it feels so bad to see Tess’s arc reduce her to a funny little throwaway joke to the rest of the wedding party. Well, except for that 4 seconds of poorly Finley upset and hurt. Which also by the way, seemed to be entirely erased once she was back inside the grounds of the wedding. Like oh well, lost cause, anyways, who wants to dance?

  3. I kept pausing this episode to really savour it, hopefully it’s not the last one ever! Or if Gen Q does get cancelled for its crimes against humanity, I would gladly listen to this group of hosts talk about different shows and/or movies.

    Also, I’m not sure if Spotify caps the number of podcast episodes it will keep before it gets rid of the oldest ones to make room for new ones? I just recently realized most of the season 1 podcasts of the original L Word are no longer available. If anyone knows what the deal is here, as a serial re-listener I would be interested to know!

    • This part I understand, I personally don’t understand why Roxy gets to invite anyone she wants to Bette & Tina’s wedding lol, the fact that it’s her family home is not enough for me!!! Who are they to Bette and Tina! Why would they want to go to that wedding of people they don’t know!!

  4. I thought it was interesting that Drew mentioned Rachel Bloom.
    Ever since the musical episode I thought that Marja wants to be Rachel Bloom so bad!
    The difference is stark though: Rachel who is extremely talented, a genius even, surrounded herself with seasoned pros like Aline Brosh McKenna and Adam Schlesinger and wasn’t afraid of taking advice or being overshadowed.

  5. Because I lament the erasure of lesbo history & because of the acute nostalgia I harbor for the OG L Word, I spent the past couple of weeks listening to 6 or 7 or 9 seasons of To L and Back. I lost track of so many character arcs and story threads in this series, but you, my intrepid podcast hosts, were consistently brilliant, scathing, and hilarious. Thank you!

  6. Drew thank you so much for everything you said about Tess and the fact she is indeed a trans character, and everything you pointed out about Micah and Maribel. While I do think people are way too Quick to forgive the horrendous treatment of Max in the original series, it’s a very good point that expectations now should be higher than a show from 2009. A “happy sendoff to the people they see as people” OOF but so real. (Also I agree Capricorn moon means you work hard not serve!!)

    Riese, I thought the same thing about how if you have any complications with pregnancy wouldn’t you do the insemination in a doctors office?

    Also, not knowing about cancellation / renewal before the season ends is such a crazy way to make TV I really hate it. Even if this show was well written I feel like it’s such a bad way to operate

    On to more lighthearted topics, I’ll be honest it hurt my little Sinley heart to lose 3 of our team members, but I understand! And was also very happy for Carmen, remembering that article! I totally feel y’all about how being in different places career wise can create a gulf – it makes me sad but it’s real. I hope my guy Finley will find something she’s passionate about too

    • also this difference between Sophie and Finley’s career trajectories made me wonder – how did they meet? We know Dani and Micah dated in college, and then Dani and Sophie met at Akbar, but how did Finley get into the mix?

      Would love anyone’s theories!

  7. Very good point from Drew about how Marja should have been paired up with a more experienced showrunner. I just don’t understand how they gave the reins of Gen Q to someone SO inexperienced. What were they expecting?

    I never understood how Ilene Chaiken was given the chance to do the L Word in the first place, after being known for writing Barb freakin’ Wire and a brief stint producing Fresh Prince. Were they just looking for any white lesbian in Hollywood who had availability?

    Merci beaucoup to all three of you for your continued commitment to this show’s tortured audience, the sisterhood, and Murdoch Mysteries. You guys made the L Word Gen Q worth watching.

  8. Though I am neither a writer nor knowledgeable about insemination procedures, the storyline my brain keeps offering me for Micah and Mirabel is one where as they’re opening up the sperm time capsule machine, they get all gooey and lovey about how the other is going to be a good parent, start having sex, the scene lasts more than 15 seconds (this is crucial), then one of them remembers “oh my god the sperm!” And Micah has to quickly run downstairs to grab the supplies while Mirabel cracks up in bed, and we get a joyful, sexy cliffhanger.

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