People die. Characters die. This is perhaps life’s most unfortunate fact: that people will die and leave the rest of us behind. It’s incredibly rare that any dramatic television series lasting over three seasons will never kill a main or recurring character, and all those deaths have driven a stake through the heart of fandom: Joyce on Buffy, Lady Sybil on Downton Abby, Charlie on Lost, Ned Stark on Game of Thrones, Jen on Dawson’s Creek, Nate on Six Feet Under — but when the person who dies is a lesbian or bisexual character, queer fandom takes it pretty hard.
The history of lesbian representation on television is rocky — in the beginning, we seemed exclusively relegated to roles that saw us getting killed/attacked or doing the killing/attacking. And until the last five or so years, lesbian and bisexual characters seemed entirely unable to date an actual woman or stay alive for more than three episodes, let alone an entire run, of a show. Gay and lesbian characters are so often murdered on television that we have our very own trope: Bury Your Gays. We comprise such a teeny-tiny fraction of characters on television to begin with that killing us off so haphazardly feels especially cruel.
Not every death listed below was wholly uncalled for. In many genres, like soap operas and shows about vampires, zombies, criminals, or games of thrones, characters are killed on the reg. That’s a different trope — Anyone Can Die. Furthermore, shows composed entirely of queer characters will inevitably kill one. But regardless, they still add to the body count weighing down our history of misrepresentation.
And, due to the recent untimely death of Lexa on The 100, this week seemed like a good one to count down everybody we have lost over the years.
This list contains every television death of an OPENLY lesbian or bisexual or queer female character on a television show. With a handful of exceptions, these are all characters who appeared for more than one episode. The exceptions were deemed exceptional because something about the characterization still fits in with the Bury Your Gays trope. Victims-of-the-week from crime procedurals (Law & Order, Cold Case, CSI, Criminal Minds or older shows) or patients-of-the-week from hospital dramas (Chicago Hope, E.R.), aren’t on this list, as that is an entirely different kind of list, but recurring characters from those shows are on this list. Nor is subtext on this list, because we’re not gonna give Xena showrunners Queer Character Credit for a character they refused to make openly queer when she was really so obviously queer. You know? [ETA: Okay, I’ve added Xena after doing further research and because if one more commenter takes up space on this thread — a thread I’m using to find more characters to add, and also to engage with thoughtful/funny readers who have opinions and feelings — to tell me that I “forgot” Xena without reading this introduction, I will become the 200th dead lesbian and the cause of death will be “Walked off a cliff with a commenter in her arms. Murder-suicide.” But Xena will be the one and only inclusion based on subtext.] Also, although I’ve done tons of research, I haven’t personally seen all of these shows, so mistakes may very well exist, and feel free to politely inform me of them in the comments, or tell me about characters I may have missed — it’s especially helpful if you can tell me the cause of death and the year.
Unsure if this needs to be said but… SPOILER ALERT.
Special thanks to the LezWatchTV Database for providing info on shows I haven’t seen or heard about directly!
Every Regular or Recurring Lesbian or Bisexual Female Character Killed On Television
Julie, Executive Suite (1976)
Cause of death: Hit by a car. Her love interest had just walked into traffic after realizing her lesbianism and Julie was chasing her.
Franky Doyle, Prisoner: Cell Block H (1980)
Cause of death: Shot by a police officer after escaping from prison
Sharon Gilmour, Prisoner: Cell Block H (1980)
Cause of death: Pushed down the stairs by a corrections officer
Karen O’Malley, Casualty (1987)
Cause of death: Head Injury
Cecília, Vale Tudo (1988)
Cause of death: Car Accident
Cicely, Northern Exposure (1992)
Cause of death: Shot by a gunman employed by the town’s evil overlord who doesn’t want to let the lesbians change his town. The shot was intended for her girlfriend Roslyn, but Cicely, who was already sick, blocked the bullet and died in Roslyn’s arms, thus magically healing the town’s long-simmering feuds and leading them to re-name the town “Cicely.”
Talia Winters, Babylon 5 (1995)
Cause of death: Activated a sleeper personality that wiped out her actual personality, effectively killing her
Beth Jordache, Brookside (1995)
Cause of death: Genetic heart condition, died in prison
Susan Ross, Seinfeld (1996)
Cause of death: Toxic envelope glue
Naomi “Tracy” Richards, Band of Gold (1996)
Cause of death: Stabbed herself
Lucy, The Fortunes and Misfortunes of Moll Flanders (1996)
Cause of death: Caught thieving and hanged
Kathy, NYPD Blue (1997)
Cause of death: Shot by a hit man hired by her girlfriend Abby’s ex, who wanted to get rid of Kathy so she could get back together with Abby. Abby was pregnant at the time.
Sondra Westwood, Pacific Drive (1997)
Cause of death: Murdered by a serial killer
Jadzia Dax, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1998)
Cause of death: Blasted by an alien-possessed alien
Sonia Besirky, Lindenstraße (1998)
Cause of death: Drug overdose from medication given to her by her ex-lover’s husband
Leila and Rafaela, Torre de Babel (1998)
Cause of death: Explosion in a shopping mall
Susanne Teubner, Hinter Gittern (1999)
Cause of death: Shot during a bank robbery (she was a customer)
Shaz Wiley, Bad Girls (2000)
Cause of death: Bomb, died in resulting fire
Laura Hall, Shortland Street (2000)
Cause of death: Heart attack
Diamond, Dark Angel (2001)
Cause of death: Used as a lab rat for research that killed her
Xena, Xena the Warrior Princess (2001)
Cause of death: Beheaded
Beate “Bea” Hansen, Hinter Gittern (2001)
Cause of death: Injuries from an explosion
Jule Neumann, Hinter Gittern (2001)
Cause of death: Suicide
Frankie Stone, All My Children (2001)
Cause of death: Murder Mystery!
Bridgit, 24 (2001)
Cause of death: Shot by a man in front of her girlfriend
Tara Maclay, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (2002)
Cause of death: Shot in the heart by a stray bullet
Kelly Hurst, Family Affairs (2002)
Cause of death: Pushed down the stairs by her lover’s husband
Megan Hartnoll, At Home With The Braithwaites (2003)
Cause of death: Electrocuted in the bathtub
Juliet Becker, The Bill (2003)
Cause of death: Stabbed
Tina Greer, Smallville (2003)
Cause of death: Impaled through the chest on a large piece of wood during a fight with a male character
Sandy Lopez, E.R. (2004)
Cause of death: Injuries sustained from fighting a fire in an abandoned warehouse
Al Mackenzie, Bad Girls (2004)
Cause of death: Poisoned
Hanna Novak, Verbotene Liebe (2004)
Cause of death: Stroke, died in her girlfriend’s arms
Ines Führbringer, Hinter Gittern (2004)
Cause of death: Throat slit, died in girlfriend’s arms
Thelma Bates, Hex (2004)
Cause of death: Murdered by a demon
Flora, Deadwood (2004)
Cause of death: Beaten by a man who then forced a woman to shoot her with his gun
Brenda Castillo, Charmed (2004)
Cause of death: Stabbed with a cursed blade by a man, causing her to rapidly age and then die
Tosha, The Wire (2004)
Cause of death: Shot during a heist gone wrong
Marissa Cooper, The O.C. (2005)
Cause of death: Car crash after being driven off the road by her drunk ex-boyfriend
Servilla, Rome (2005)
Cause of death: Stabs herself in front of her rival house, inhabited by the mother of her lover
Dusty, Queer As Folk (2005)
Cause of death: At a benefit at a gay club when a bomb went off
Dana Fairbanks, The L Word (2006)
Cause of death: Breast cancer
Helena Cain, Battlestar Galactica (2006)
Cause of death: Shot by her ex-lady-lover
Manuela Wellmann, Hinter Gittern (2006)
Cause of death: Stabbed, died in girlfriend’s arms
Maya Robertson, Hex (2006)
Cause of death: Hit by a car
Natalie, Bad Girls (2006)
Cause of death: Bludgeoned to death with a brick
Gina Inviere/#6, Battlestar Galactica (2006)
Cause of death: Set off a nuclear weapon
Eve Jacobson/Zoe McAllister, Home & Away (2006)
Cause of death: Inside a building when it was blown up
Van, Dante’s Cove (2006)
Cause of Death: Killed by the Shadows
Angie Morton, Stritctly Confidential (2006)
Cause of death: Suicide. Jumped off a building.
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Mayor Carol Blanton from Neon Joe, Werewolf Hunter
cause of death / year?
Actually she survived the spacecraft crash, but she was bitten by Neon Joe’s dad, so: cybot + werewolf.
Thank you for bringing this show to my attention, it was funny as hell.
Kate’s death in Last Tango In Halifax made me so angry. As did the whole planned pregnancy by sex with a man thing. That programme did all the other storylines really well and theirs really badly.
Yeah, me too. That couple had such storyline potential, but Kate was “not integral” to the plot. She was much more than a plot device, especially to older lesbians viewers. . So proud of the leskru’s activism. They are schooling the rest of us in who it make an impact: over $30,000 raised for Trevor!
That was the lesbian death which finally tipped me over the edge to say – enough.
Sally Wainwright has three kills to her name on this list: Kate, Helen Bartlett in Scott & Bailey, and Megan Hartnoll in At home with the Braithwaites. Is that a record for one person?
Also – what about unlucky in love Sophie Webster’s girlfriend Maddie Heath? There’s an explosion in a building yard as she’s passing. She dies a couple of days later from her injuries.
Ryan Murphy has quite a few on the list
Occurs to me now that there were a couple of occasions where it is suggested that Clara Oswald isn’t entirely straight and we all know how last season of Doctor a Who ended…
She didn’t really die though.
Well, she did, then she turned into an immortal time traveler, so…
Clara is canon bisexual, as is River Song, they should both be on this list.
There’s a longstanding tendency in the gay/lesbian community to require much more proof of bisexuality than of being lesbian/gay… which is a lot like the way straight people want way more proof a character is a lesbian than that she’s straight.
It goes right along with phrasing like “gay or *at least* bisexual” to make us seem like… in our community’s eyes, we barely count.
Please, everybody, hold bi characters to the same burden of proof. If you would have read Clara, for example, as queer for all her Jane Austen innuendo if she HADN’T had a boyfriend, read her as bi now.
I agree with both of these. Clara in 2015 and River… confuses me lol.
Also that is the best way I’ve ever heard how to read someone as bi explained, thank you! :)
Yeah, this. I 100% read Clara as bisexual, and the text of the show supports it (she mentions kissing and loving Jane Austen, seems pretty clear to me). But if they’re sticking with their “no subtext rule” with a broad definition of subtext (which is weird, considering Talia is on here) then River should at least “count.” She mentions having a wife.
Is there a happy ending list?
Please, for the mental health of the staff I hope there is.
May it be long and glorious.
They Don’t Die is a Tumblr blog working to document queer women couples that get happy endings in media (not just TV, but also games, movies, webcomics, and the like). It’s pretty new and they’re taking submissions.
Thankyou, Riese, for doing all the hard work for us and putting this list together! Seeing quite a few of these dredged up some painful TV memories (Pepsi! Why??). It helps put this past week in context. It’s not a nice list, but important, nonetheless.
I hate to be a stickler but Marissa from All My Children was played by Sarah Glendening not the girl you have in the picture. Yes the girl in the picture (Brittany Allen) DID play Marissa but she wasn’t the Marissa that was part of the MINX pairing.
Personally I was a huge BAM fan (I actually went to events for them) and I only shipped Eden Riegel’s Bianca with Liz Hendrickson’s Maggie. I also became a huge MINX fan because it was now Christine Lind’s Bianca with Sarah Glendening’s Marissa. I basically considered them 2 separate couples not the same character (Bianca) with different women.
fixed the picture, i think!
I’m with you I was a huge BAM fan in the day. Eden and Liz had amazing chemistry!
um Jadzia Dax was not a lesbian. At best, she was bi. But one kiss with a woman does not make her a lesbian.
Title of list includes bisexual and her case is not cut and dry as just one kiss with a woman.
She was a joined Trill.
Which is why the article is named 65 Dead lesbian AND **BISEXUAL** characters on TV and how they died.
There are some days when I wonder why I watch Supernatural, and some days when I wonder when I’m going to outright hatewatch it. Killing Charlie felt like one of the biggest fuck yous from that show. She was only in a couple eps this current season, but there was also a cute queer cop lady that was killed off after her soul was sucked out.
Jenna Nickerson I believe was her name. She revealed on the show that her first kiss was with a woman.
She had her soul sucked out by a demon baby and was then killed by being tossed around by another character until her neck breaks.
I will be forever bitter about Charlie.
But I’m also not entirely convinced she’s dead. It IS Charlie we’re talking about here.
They could definitely find a way to bring her back. Which I hope they do.
you know when i first saw that you had updated the article i jokingly thought, watch this get to a hundred. we’re at bloody 85 and i didnt think it was actually possible for it to be this high. guess what? i have another queer casualty, from a Brazilian show called happily ever after? felizes para sempre? ( a freakin question mark should be all you need to know about how it ends.) anyway, denise/simone is shot and killed. denise and marilla were amazing together. ive included a link in case anyone is interested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KleINfcWZOE
Nadia Petrova on The Vampire Diaries, bitten by a werewolf.
Seeing Lexa made me feel a lot of fresh things. Ugh.
Are Vastra and Jenny on Doctor Who still alive?
Also, River Song was bisexual and they killed her, yeah?
was river song actually written as bi, though, or just said to be bi on twitter? i hesitate to include characters that were essentially queerbaiting, because i don’t think they fit in as examples of this trend
River Song is bi on the show, she mentioned in the last Christmas episode that she had been married to a woman (Something about her 2nd wife).
Clara Oswald is bi on the show as well and technically dead, but just removed from time at the moment of her death.
yeah i feel that. i actually don’t recall – i only watched the episodes when amy pond was on because, actually, she is my root – and if river canonically did anything gay it was after i stopped watching out of spite. so she may well have been a queerbait character, and unworthy of this list
She mentioned onscreen having had two ex-wives.
Jenny died and was brought back twice in the same episode, The name of the Doctor, and it was fucking brutal watching Vastra break down. So yeah Jenny died, but then undied because Doctor Who. I feel like if Thelma from Hex counts, Jenny counts because Thelma then spent 2 seasons as a ghost and even got a ghost girlfriend.
Thankfully yes! Jenny did die, but then they went back and fixed it, so it doesn’t really count. River Song died the first time we met her, and we have seen her lots since because of timelines and things. As a side note – Jenny and Vastra should have their own spin off. Love them so much!
I second Jenny and Vastra having a spin off, I flaming love them. I feel like a Victorian Torchwood type thing would be brilliant.
How could I have forgotten about Vastra and Jenny?
Vastra and Jenny are still alive, well in the 19th century so they are probably dead by now but not in the show.
As for River, she died in her first episode, before she was known as bisexual, and she’s kept coming back since so I don’t know if that should be on the list really.
Wasn’t River Song killed off before she was revealed as being bi? Or for that matter, became a recurring character in the first place. She died in the episode with Ten which introduced her as the Doctor’s future lover.
susan on seinfeld died after licking some bad envelopes
She was engaged to George Costanza and was licking the defective envelopes for their wedding invitations. how can she be considered openly gay if she was engaged to a man?
This list isn’t only for gay women. Bisexual women count too, and it is mentioned in an episode that Susan has a history of dating women as well as men.
Original Cindy’s girlfriend hurt. I’ve been a robot ever since.
There is also Piper Perabo ( as Paulie) in Lost and Delirious when she jumps out of the roof!
that’s a movie
this is about tv shows
also does anybody want to hear me talk about how much i hate lost & delirious
If I can counter it with how much I loved that movie as young teenager and the twisted reasons why.
It will be terrible.
Like watching that movie again as an adult with none thanatotic worshipfulness of a terribly short sighted depressed adolescent.
That movie scarred me as a kid. It was like one big anxiety festival.
That means you were totally sane as a kid.
I toast to your continued sanity.
But it’s okay this world can be maddening after all look at that dead count.
It’s 135 at the moment.
Can you imagine the numbers if you add movies to the list? Endless.
Lesbian and bisexual characters ON TV…
This list would be more interesting if someone could compile and compare all of these deaths with two additional lists: A) how many lesbian and bi characters are still currently alive on series or survived full run of a TV series, and B) how many heterosexual characters have been killed off of series.
That would be interesting to me. Maybe only to me; I like quantitative analysis.
i think it would take at least a year to do that!
I think it would be extremely hard(well time consuming) to compile a list of heterosexual characters who have been killed considering that hetero characters have always made up the overwhelming majority of tv characters and there are a shitload of tv shows, past and present, to sift through.
It’s much easier to make up of a list of lesbian and bi characters(dead or alive) when they only account for like less than one percent of tv representation. Even less in previous years.
yeah, exactly!
i mean y’all know there is nothing i love more than analyzing data, counting things, and making lists and graphs of those things, but oh man there have been thousands of tv shows!
The list of dead heterosexual characters seems pretty impossible, haha. A list of lesbian/bisexual women that have survived the full run of a tv show (so no currently airing shows would be on the list) would be a lot easier to do, I think.
That would be beyond time consuming. I mean taking just Buffy, for example you’d have a good 100 that were killed off alone. But I suppose that also depends on who you include…
I am comfortable with Skins Fire never existing, so Naomi is alive and well in my mind.
I know she was loathed by the fandom, but I really liked Cat from Lip Service. The show went off into an entirely differently direction, one that I didn’t appreciate. So I think the showrunners made a mistake killing her off.
Dahlia from Legend of the Seeker. Was in 3 episodes. Pretty sure she died from confession by Kahlan. Was love interest for Cara.
Dahlia was resurrected afterward, though.
I know this has been answered before and it may seem abit silly for some people that we are arguing over whether Xena counts as canon or not, but her death in particular has affected me the most out of all the lesbians and bi women I’ve seen killed in fiction and I’m sure I’m not the only one whose been affected deeply by her being pointlessly killed off.
It just seems wrong to not recognize this fact and the pain it has caused women like me over something as small as not giving the showrunners credit for a show older than most of the things on this list which limits what they even could do. I think the number of people pointing out how they feel Xena missing from the list enough for her to be put on it.
Also supporting Xena and Gabrielle being added to the list are the numerous interviews with Xena herself, Lucy Lawless, stating outright that she herself felt that Xena and Gabby were a couple at the end of the series. One could add the numerous lesbian in-jokes added deliberately to the series by the writers once they discovered that the show had a large lesbian following, but I could argue that as being merely circumstantial evidence. (I could, but I won’t, since I’m a hetero guy who felt all along that Xena was bisexual and, up to the point where I stopped watching after Julius Caesar showed up and the writers went on a crucifixion kick, didn’t want to force herself on Gabrielle but respected Gabby as a friend enough to let Gabby discover her gender preference for herself.)
I may be just slightly wrong about this as well but I believe that Gaia was actually murdered by Lucretia who was Batiatus’ wife. Gaia knew one of Lucretia’s deepest secrets and threatened to reveal it causing Lucretia to murder her.
No, Gaia was definitely murdered by a dude and Lucretia was super-duper broken up and over it and started wearing Gaia’s wig or one just like it afterward like the weirdo she was.
Gaia was killed by Tullius. He was causing trouble at a party held by Lucretia and Gaia tried to seduce him both to help Lucretia and to hopefully get Tullius interested enough in her to consider marrying her, but instead he kills her in order to essentially send a message to Lucretia and Batiatus.
Gaia was murdered by a senator who was trying to send a message to Batiatus and Lucretia and kinda derail their ambition.
Here is a (likely incomplete) list of LGBTQ characters in TV and radio. It might be worth cross-referencing this list to see if there are any names we’re missing.
I’m trying to find out if local Asian media has snuck in queer characters solely to kill them off for the purposes of making a point about how homosexuality is an evil sin. I know there’s been at least one case in theater but that’s all I recall.
Oh don’t worry I have already gone through that entire list backwards and forwards. That’s where I started — that Wikipedia list, and four other wikipedia lists organized by show (one of dramas, one of soaps, one of situation comedies, and another of tv episodes), and the tvtropes bury your gays. That was my first step. :-) I have those lists bookmarked.
Actually what’s been super interesting to me is that I did sort of assume those Wikipedia lists were fairly comprehensive — and it turns out that they definitely aren’t, if the additions offered in the comments today are any indication. I mean I literally clicked and went through the bio of every queer female character listed.
OK, so from a cursory look, from the ones I could find that have LGBTQ women characters…they all LIVE HAPPILY.
The Big F and Yudh both from India have pretty stable queer women relationships. Daughters of Club Bilitis from Korea features THREE multi-generational lesbian relationships and they all live happily ever after. I’ve yet to find one that involves trauma, let alone death.
@_@
well, that’s good news!
Whereas Asian Media is concerned; Attack on Titan had Ymir, an openly lesbian character who was given a major plot arc then immediately removed from the story after it was concluded. She’s confirmed to have been killed off-screen.
I dunno if a big, mainstream series with fans all over the world like Attack on Titan could be called “local” but Ymir’s death fits all the hallmarks of the trope.
Emily (TEEN WOLF) wasn’t mauled by an Alpha Werewolf. She was pretty much attacked by a shit ton of bugs as the SECOND virgin sacrifice for the Darach.
Plus, we don’t know if Delphine is actually dead so she shouldn’t be on the list
I think that Martha’s suicide in The Children’s Hour (1961) should count. This trope has been around a long damn time. :(
that’s a movie
this is a list about tv
yes it should count!!!
Chloe from life is strange dies infinite times XDDD but its a videogame and if she dies at the end is your decission.
Does videogames,animated movies,series count? cause there is A LOT. And i think those media are a very big representation, just like TV.
Not be a jerk but I’m dyslexic and I have managed to read the title that says “All ## Dead Lesbian and Bisexual Characters On TV, And How They Died” to come away with the information that the list is about TV characters, lesbian AND bisexual characters.
NOT all LB characters in live action or JUST lesbians.
Are you neurotypicals just very confident and never double check anything when you read before responding to something?
I’m not suppose to do better than y’all at this kinda stuff that bitch from elementary school said so.
I mean I always be glad to make her wrong, but what…what is this thing with failing at reading comprehension?
Explain this to me.
I am confused and not for the first time about this comprehension fail in neurotypicals.
TAHNK YOU, THANK YOO, THANK YOU…
PD: and about Xena, in the holy name of god, can you all please read the 5th paragraph of this post.
Yes, the conclusion paragraph in the intro. I have hypotheses for the missing of that bit.
But titles are much shorter and should be easier to maintain comprehension for people
Right?
But I would not know as I am not normal.
Maybe the thing is that we live in a very visual world nowadays? Maybe we need to replace words for pictures? This is a TV…?
It says all dead lesbian and bi characters. And they’re all dead lesbian and bi characters with their cause of death listed. Maybe I’m missing something because I’m also not neurotypical, but I don’t see the conflict.
The Lizzie Borden Chronicles has Adele (Kimberly-Sue Murray) in 3 episodes. She appears to be bisexual at least, kissing Lizzie in one of the episodes. Lizzie locks her in a coffin, later pulls her out and slits her throat to frame her for a murder.
ah yes, good call !
it bums me out how funny this is.
Some more on AHS – in Freak Show there is a woman who is involved with Neil Patrick Harris but also with a woman and then he kills either one or both of them.
In Hotel, I think Angela Bassett’s character dies too (at least, in the way that the countess does). And Sarah Paulson’s character Sally is the dead the whole time (we see her death in a flashback) and she is revealed to be queer eventually.
Oh also, the wife of one of Finn Wittrock’s characters is involved with the countess… Natacha Ramobva, she dies too.
I can’t you forgot one of the most iconic characters in TV history, Xena Warrior Princess, who was definitely bisexual if not gay. I am really disappointed by this gross omission.
“Nor is subtext or queerbaiting on this list, because we’re not gonna give Xena showrunners Queer Character Credit for a character they refused to make openly queer when she was really so obviously queer.”
It’s from the intro paragraph.
Did you read the paragraph at all?
Not trying to be mean, just curious.
The view that Xena was more than subtext isn’t uncommon, especially showing in how many people are commenting to say they think she is missing from the list.
Yes but wording of the poster’s sentence suggests she was not disputing whether it was more than subtext or not, but that she had not read the reason for the Riese’s omission of Xena from the list.
“Forgot” does not imply a disagreement with Riese’s reason, it implies the poster was unaware of the reason.
I am not on the subject of more than subtext or not in Xena the Warrior Princess
I am on about the subject of reading comprehension and whether or not people choose not to read paragraphs when they are an introduction to a more quickly consumable work like a list.
Is this clear?
Does it really matter if they haven’t read it or not, from what they have said it sounds like they disagree with Riese anyway, so arguing that they should of read it if they haven’t is kinda off point.
The thing is that Riese decided that this post should have those standards: no subtext, no queerbaiting.
I do personally considered Xena and Gabrielle canon, but I know that my consideration is built on subtext and if I use Riese’s rules, Xena can’t be on this list. Xena: Warrior Princess had very heavy subtext, heavier than the one you can find in things like Rizzoli & Isles, but still it was subtext.
Believe or not, I think that reading comprehension is a key in this matter. This week AS posted a couple of articles titled “The Seven Most Influential…”, related of course with AS 7th anniversary. In those posts you can find several movies/TV shows suggestions that have more than 7 years.
“Does it really matter if they haven’t read it or not, from what they have said it sounds like they disagree with Riese anyway, so arguing that they should of read it if they haven’t is kinda off point.”
as lex and freakazoid have said … yes, it does. the OP’s comment did not indicate disagreement, it indicated that the OP honestly somehow thought, after (not) reading the post and (not) reading the comments, that I had, in fact, FORGOTTEN, to include Xena. Your comments, erin, have been disagreements with the rules we laid out for the list. The OP’s comment is not a disagreement, it’s a condescending and hostile reminder to me for having somehow “forgotten” to include Xena.
Anyhow look, I’ve never seen Xena, I’ve only read about it. But I made this list in consultation with my team and also, I personally HATE queerbaiting and hate giving credit where no credit is due. Buffy, Friends and ER were on during the same era as Xena, and those shows had majority hetero audiences, and still debuted queer characters. Meanwhile Xena, who I imagine had a following that was pretty damn queer, knew they could keep their audience engaged without having to be brave and like them back. What you said about the impact of their death on you personally has given me pause, so I’m considering it, but I still feel weird about it.
“Does it really matter if they haven’t read it or not, from what they have said it sounds like they disagree with Riese anyway, so arguing that they should of read it if they haven’t is kinda off point.”
And I quote myself
“I am not on the subject of more than subtext or not in Xena the Warrior Princess
I am on about the subject of reading comprehension and whether or not people choose not to read paragraphs when they are an introduction to a more quickly consumable work like a list.”
YES, clearly it matters to me.
And it is not an argument that they should have read it.
It was a query, a question if they read it.
I even used a question mark.
Look:
“Did you read the paragraph at all?
Not trying to be mean, just curious.”
and
“Because I wonder about the way minds work.
Like if the main body of a work is a list and there is paragraph to introduce it do people skip the paragraph completely and go straight for the list?”
Another question mark.
I understand that rhetorical questions are used to belittle people, but my question was an honestly a question.
It could certainly be argued that my query is off topic, but the way people absorb, comprehend and interpret information plainly given to them is an interest to me. The comments to this post with a clearly displayed title and an introduction before the body of work show a dissonance of reading comprehension from people who I can assume are not all dyslexic and therefore should not “miss” details so easily.
Or so I have been told as dyslexic person.
My “superiors” are failing to be superior to me which is extra interesting, so I was curious. Took a chance to make queries on it and attempted to have them answered.
After this I will not have any discourse with you on this because I cannot make myself any clearer. And if you continue to attempt discourse on this I can only assume you’re trying to fuck with me.
I must suggest if you have such an issue with Riese’s view that Xena the Warrior Princess is only subtext and not more. You take it up with her, not me.
Unless picking on the weird kid is more your taste than taking on the Editor in Chief. But if I were you I’d try to argue with Riese, she’s much nicer than I am. Even when she’s agitated.
As neurodivergent person with cognitive problems that make it hard for me to read a lot of the time honestly you are just coming off as patronising, even if you are dyslexic, which is why i wrote my first reply. But i may have missed your point or misread things so I’m sorry.
Because I wonder about the way minds work.
Like if the main body of a work is a list and there is paragraph to introduce it do people skip the paragraph completely and go straight for the list?
yes people do it all the time, this is a chronic problem
I absolutely believe you and your voice of experience in this.
Still I want to science the shit out of this.
The what is clear but it’s the why that has my curiosity parts aflutter.
I am extra careful about reading stuff like directions or an introduction to a body of work because I don’t want to make avoidable dyslexia mistakes.
This phenomenon of skipping intro and going straight for the list by neuro-typicals is it confidence or is it the pretty light of digital devices making them less attentive?
What ever the why, I’m sorry you have wade into stuff because of it like a parent into the backseat of the kids during a long road trip because they are fighting over whose juice box has the most juice when the box clear states 6.75 FL OZ and they both know what FL OZ means because you told them last week.
No science whatsoever, but let’s play a little game.
Let’s assume that all the people skipping headlines and paragraphs, not understanding a single freaking word of what they’re reading and all that kind of shit, are all American citizens and registered voters, and, of course, a presidential election is coming.
Doesn’t that scare you shitless?
Maybe I’m just sleep deprived… But I can honestly not think of one les/bi woman in swedish TV. Living or dead.
So much for progressive country. I would gladly stand corrected though!
The only ones I can think of are the priest and her gf/wife from “Äkta Människor”, if you’ve seen that? She was played by, hmm, Bach. Sophia Bach I think? But she/they were only in season 1 (I was terribly disappointed when they weren’t in s2 tbh), aaand I don’t remember if they both made it out alive or not. I think so?
I don’t watch a lot of Swedish TV, so I can’t say if we have a lot more than that. Doubtful though. Ugh. >.<
EXCUSE YOU DELPHINE IS NOT DEAD ;_;
Emily from teen wolf wasn’t mauled by werewolves their tent was being infested with large bugs and she ran out and i think she was take by the darach (Jennifer)
oh and emily was the third sacrifice not the second
Kristen Bell’s character Flora on Deadwood is in a couple of episodes of the first season, she gets beaten and shot
I was confused by her addition. Does Flora ever say she’s queer? She talks about scamming Joanie by playing on Joanie’s lesbianism, but doesn’t imply that she herself is gay or bisexual.
Any chance of changing the last All My Children listing to Marissa Tasker instead of Chandler? It’s the one they used at the end, the one the reboot put on her grave ( http://www.afterellen.com/general-news/107209-all-my-children-recap-apr-29-may-3-bianca-is-back-bitches/3 ), and not the one that comes from her ex-husband/murderer.
Thanks for making the change :)
no problem!