“To L and Back” Podcast Episode 210: Last Call

Get on in here to listen to the last episode of To L and Back of the season! Last week I said that things were starting to get capital-S Serious and well, I wasn’t wrong. Relive the head-spinning relationship escalations of Tess/Shane and Alice/Tom! Yell with us about Finley’s intervention! And obviously, obviously, let’s all gasp together about that ending! And friends, because it is our final episode of the season, I will be honest and brave in this post and say: I did not dislike this episode as much as my pals Drew and Riese!

But more than anything I will be honest and say we’ve had such a blast recapping this often infuriating, always entertaining television program this season, and we hope you had a blast listening. If we made you laugh or cry or even just roll your eyes, please consider donating to the Autostraddle fundraiser! And let’s all keep our fingers crossed for another season, because as Riese says, even when we hate it…we love it!


Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is—

Drew, Riese, and Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Riese: The final chapter.

Drew: At least of Season 2, but maybe forever.

Riese: Yeah, it hasn’t been renewed yet.

Drew: But maybe by the time this episode comes out, it will have been.

Analyssa: And they’re really asking for that renewal at the end of this episode, aren’t they?

Riese: Yeah, they’re really submitting a strong bid to the people for a renewal of the series. But you know, like the 10th commandment, it is over for the season. Do you know what I mean?

Drew: Like there were 10 commandments, there are 10 episodes of the season.

Riese: Yeah. Exactly.

Analyssa: They could’ve named every episode after one of the commandments.

Riese: Exactly. They should have. And this one would have been, “Though shall not covet thy neighbor’s wife.”

Analyssa: That was a really good pull.

Riese: Oh my God, I’ve peaked, I’m done.

Analyssa: All I could think of was steal or lie, and I was like, well—

Riese: What’s the one that’s really weird and specific to the olden days?

Drew: I was just thinking, there are 10? Wow.

Analyssa: I tried to do this before because, Catholicism, I don’t know.

Riese: I’ll have to watch the film. Maybe I’m thinking of how there’s one of the Bill of Rights is weird. The one about how you shouldn’t be forced to have an army in your house.

Analyssa: How you can’t be forced to quarter a soldier. One of the 10 commandments was like, you can’t be forced to have God in your home, I guess. Yeah, there’s the one about false idols, which is always kind of interesting to me.

Riese: Oh, yeah. Maybe that’s… Yeah.

Analyssa: Which is kind of you actually can’t—

Riese: Kind of dated.

Analyssa: …have God in your home.

Drew: I have seen both 10 commandments movies, the silent one and the one from the 50s with Charlton Heston, so. Fun facts.

Riese: Wow. Well, I’ve seen a number of movies starring Kristen Stewart.

Drew: Well, that’s nice. And we’ve all seen this episode of Gen Q, which is episode 2:10, Last Call. It is directed by Marja-Lewis Ryan. It is written by Marja and Christina Brosman. Christina Brosman is a new writer on the season and is a new writer on television in general. Her previous credits are showrunner’s assistant on Girls and writer’s assistant on Camping. So this person is coming from Lena Dunham land, which I will present without comment.

Analyssa: Should we do it?

Drew: Yeah, let’s get into the episode.

Riese: Well, I’m already upset.

Drew: Because of the intervention?

Riese: An intervention is a last ditch, after someone has failed at sobriety multiple times. And the point of the intervention is for people to share specific details about how this person’s addiction has harmed them, which they refuse to do.

Analyssa: I want just upfront to say that I have decided to rebrand. I’m leading with love and light this episode. I was drinking a cookies and cream milkshake while I watched it.

Riese: That’s so nice.

Drew: Oo, that’s smart.

Analyssa: That kind of improved the experience. And I just feel ready, once again, to lead with love and light. I just wanted you to know that going in.

Drew: I’m going to still be an angry bitch.

Analyssa: And that’s totally fine. I think it will be good for all of our balances.

Riese: Yeah, I’m going to be leading with love and light, but I’m going to fail at it, and I’ve already failed.

Analyssa: No, I agree. It really genuinely does not make any sense. However, since I was, as aforementioned, leading with love and light, I have just simply decided that this is a story that they wanted to tell. I don’t understand why it’s happening, and I’ve simply decided to not think about it too much.

Riese: Okay. That’s going to be tough for the podcast.

Analyssa: So true. I’m just going to keep going. I have no thoughts.

Drew: That sounds so pleasant. Just like Alice brought a meat and cheese plate, and you’re just like, “Yeah, she did.”

Analyssa: She did. And I loved that. The thing about it is like, Riese, I think you said this in your recap, there’s so many ways for Finley to have realized that she has hit a bottom, that we haven’t seen a ton of on television that could have been really interesting and nuanced. She could have had to go to AA as a result of her drunk driving ticket or felony or misdemeanor, whatever the outcome of that was.

Riese: I think it was a misdemeanor.

Analyssa: I guess it is a misdemeanor, right?

Riese: Because she would’ve had bail if it had been a felony. Although maybe she did and they just left that out. And also it would have only been a felony if she’d breathed really, really, really, really high, because it would be her first offense and she didn’t injure anyone, so.

Analyssa: There are so many other ways for her to have realized that she does in fact have a problem and be kind of taken aback by that and knocked out of her seat. And instead, we’ve skipped, once again, like 16 steps, and we’re like, “The only way for an alcoholic to know that they’ve hit rock bottom is all their friends circle them up and tell them that,” which is just—

Riese: And it’s not going to work for Finley, because she’s just going to feel embarrassed. It’s also not going to work in so far as, again, you do an intervention when someone has failed at sobriety multiple times.

Analyssa: This was kind of the thing I was trying to get to with the Sophie big fight too, where I kept being like Finley’s just going to say, “What the fuck are you talking about?”

Riese: Yeah, “Like give me an example of what—”

Analyssa: This hasn’t been broached ever, except for in this drunk fight with Sophie, and that seems to be the extent of it. So to have someone walk into a room and be met with a lot of people who are like, “We’re really worried about you. We think that this is important for you to go off to an inpatient program,” is such a wild jump.

Riese: Leap.

Analyssa: Anyway, Alice did bring a meat and cheese plate, which I loved.

Riese: She also points … She’s like, “I’m just in my 20s.” Well, first of all, she says like, “It was just one night,” and then Micah is like, “It’s not just one night,” and I was like, “Oh really? Tell me more.” No. But she was like, “What about you guys in your 20s?” And she said that to Shane, and I was like, that’s not a bad point because what did Shane do for the entire original series every time she was upset? Alcohol and drugs. Cops had showed up, which is the sign of whether or not you’re an alcoholic, is that the cops are there, she would have been charged with a felony DUI. She did crash a car while drunk and on coke into a highway overpass and stumbled home with blood on her face.

Analyssa: Sophie says she thinks it feels fast, and I was like, I agree.

Riese: Yeah. Finally.

Analyssa: Here we are. Yes. Thank you.

Riese: But also, Alice being like—

Finley: I mean, what the fuck were your 20s like, dude?
Shane: No, don’t do that.
Alice: Mine were amazing.

Riese: So funny.

Analyssa: There are some really good lines in the last three episodes, where we’re like, “This doesn’t make any sense.” That’s true. They do get their little quips off, and good for them.

Drew: I really liked Finley saying—

Finley: Is there a German word for a surprise party with like, really bad vibes?

Drew: I enjoyed that line.

Analyssa: My note was, “the general word is intervention.” That is by definition a surprise party with horrible vibes.

Drew: Yeah. So Finley’s like, “I’m not going to this fancy rehab facility that Alice is going to pay for,” and is like, “Bye.”

Riese: Which I think is because of how it was broached more so than I think — because first of all, who wouldn’t go to a fancy… I mean, she’s basically sending her to a spa. Even if you weren’t addicted to anything, you would say yes, but she’s humiliated.

Drew: It doesn’t make any sense

Analyssa: You know who is not leading with love and light? All of these people in this room. There’s no attempt to explain why they’re worried about her. There’s no time to explain the—

Riese: Yeah, why are they worried about her? How has their drinking affected any of them?

Analyssa: What the scary nights are, why we’re doing this now.

Riese: What?

Analyssa: So of course she doesn’t want to go and she storms out.

Drew: Yeah. Then we go to Bette and Pippa in bed.

Analyssa: They’re deciding which rhinestone cowboy hats to wear to the CAC gala tonight.

Drew: And I at this point in my notes wrote, “Imagine if she chooses Tina, LMAO.”

Analyssa: I want these two women to be together in a big way, and that’s simply not what my future is. Even from this scene, you can tell.

Riese: When Pippa’s getting dressed and putting on her oversized flannel and fussing with her hair, she looked really cute.

Analyssa: She’s so beautiful.

Drew: I mean, I don’t want to be shallow, and I don’t want to be mean to Laurel Holloman or Tina, but it’s just—

Analyssa: Even not a comparison. She’s extremely beautiful. She’s emotionally—

Riese: Wildly talented.

Analyssa: Wildly talented. Bette has been obsessed with her for years. First of all, you’ve landed your biggest celebrity crush.

Drew: Like, what?

Analyssa: She’s emotionally available and competent.

Riese: This is it. This is the jackpot. You’ve hit it.

Analyssa: Also, remember this list that Bette had at the beginning of this season of all the qualities? We’ve done it. We checked them all.

Drew: Yeah. Imagine if I was dating Desiree Akhavan, and I was like, “You know what I’m going to do? Steal my ex from Rosie O’Donnell.” No, how thrilling? My ex is with Rosie O’Donnell and we get to all hang out and I’m dating Desiree Akhavan? That’d be amazing.

Riese: Yeah. That’s the dream right there. Also, Bette does something that I do all the time, which is, she tries to make a statement that she thinks will be cute to Pippa. She’s like, “I’d feel even better if you were there,” and then Pippa’s like, “Really?”

Analyssa: What does that mean? Say more.

Riese: And then I’m always like, “Oh, damn it. That’s not what I meant to say.” But she basically is like, “My instinct is that you still have feelings for Tina.” And you know what? Carrie has that same instinct, and also Drew has that same instinct.

Analyssa: And you know what they say about instincts, three instincts do not make a wrong.

Riese: Yeah, three instincts make one intervention, and everyone gets spa water. And that is the circle of life.

Analyssa: The other thing that happens here is that Bette takes a call from Tina, and Angie doesn’t want to go to Marcus’s funeral is what we learn.

Riese: Yeah, I don’t think she should have to go to his funeral.

Drew: I don’t think so either.

Analyssa: I also don’t think that. Speaking of Angie, I would like everyone to take a moment to welcome back to the stage caring, thoughtful girlfriend, Jordi.

Drew: Yes. Prom is over and she is back focused on being her actual character that was established in season one.

Analyssa: She’s attentive, she’s receptive.

Riese: She was just like a prom-zilla, right?

Analyssa: But she seems to have bounced back from losing prom incredibly fast.

Riese: Absolutely. Yeah. You have to bounce back from losing prom. Again, Drew bounced back from losing prom.

Drew: I did. And I really lost prom.

Analyssa: Yeah, you lost prom in total. We didn’t have prom queen campaigns at my high school. It was a write-in-ballot. Everyone was thought to—

Riese: Oh, ours was you pulled names out of a hat.

Drew: Oh, wow.

Analyssa: You went to such a strange school, I forget all the time. Angie is puttering around doing planning for some weekend trip where she wants to share a room with Jordi. Hello? And Kayla texted her saying that she wants to see her, and Angie is freaking out about whether she wants her to go to the funeral, and then Jordi comforts her. And as we’ve stated on this podcast, we love a hug between girlfriends.

Riese: A nice loving hug.

Drew: Jordi goes full Goodwill Hunting, and just keeps being like, “It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault.”

Analyssa: Speaking of girlfriends, Gigi and Dani both have some very high-necked blouses on.

Riese: Yeah, they look fantastic. They look like they’re about to go step on some girls on the internet.

Drew: Oh, I wish I was that girl on the internet.

Analyssa: God, I wish that were me. So they’re walking in for court. Although I did note that this was a little bit close to when Bette and Jodi matched that one episode, and so then I got a little nervous.

Riese: Yeah. The episode, the endless breakup.

Drew: Oh boy.

Analyssa: It wasn’t color scheme matching, but the necks on the blouses were just a little too close for comfort.

Riese: It was a little Romy and Michele.

Analyssa: Oh, that’s fun.

Riese: Apparently, Dani’s meeting Gigi’s family tonight, and that’s exciting. And then I guess Dani, she’s going to trial and someone walks by and is like, “Your dad is guilty,” or something.

Analyssa: And fully shoulder checks her. It’s very high school locker room.

Riese: What is her dad charged with?

Drew: Well, eventually we’ll find out that he’s killed a bunch of people.

Riese: Yeah. And this is not what they established in season one.

Drew: No. No. And there’s no talk at this point of any of the morality of any of it. So at this point, I’m like, what? I guess we’ll solve it somehow, sort of. I don’t understand what the show … If it is as bad as they then frame it to be, then Dani is terrible.

Riese: Yeah. Dani should not be—

Drew: For even considering going along with it. We’ll get to it, good for her, I guess, but like, what?

Riese: If this is what they were doing, why didn’t they tell a whistleblower story? That would’ve been so much more exciting. And they could’ve had a protest of 10 to 15 people with signs drawn, hand-drawn by Bette Porter with lots of colors.

Drew: Oh, which I realized when I was pulling the stills for socials, that the way they say the chant in the protests in the last episode is weird. They don’t do like, “Hey, hey, ho, ho,” they just go, “Hey, ho,” and the beat is off. Anyways, that’s not important, but—

Riese: It is. It is important.

Analyssa: Gigi has to do a quick emotional check-in because she has to do one of those before noon every day or she will wither up and die. I don’t know.

Drew: And I do love that for her.

Analyssa: And I thought it was very funny that Dani was like—

Dani: If I need anything, I’ll ask, ok?
Gigi: Ok.

Analyssa: Gigi has fully therapized her.

Drew: It’s beautiful.

Analyssa: And then Gigi does one of the things I really dislike on TV, but as Drew knows, I don’t talk to myself very frequently. Drew does. Sorry.

Drew: No, you can reveal that.

Analyssa: And I don’t love on TV when someone delivers a line that’s supposed to go to the person. Dani goes, “I’ll let you know if I need anything,” turns around and walks away. And she simply cannot hear Gigi at this point, and Gigi goes—

Gigi: I hope that’s true.

Analyssa: I don’t know why, it just bugs me.

Drew: I would do that.

Analyssa: I don’t think it’s how people speak.

Drew: I think I might. But you can be bothered by me.

Analyssa: Well, it wouldn’t bother me because I wouldn’t know that you were doing it.

Riese: You wouldn’t even know.

Drew: Right. Great point.

Riese: You guys could have had so many conversations that you don’t even know. Who knows what your relationship really is?

Analyssa: What pithy one-liners is Drew getting off when I go to my room.

Drew: I would only do it if it was like … I don’t know. It’s probably because I’ve watched so much television that there are things that people don’t do but now I do them because they’re on television.

Riese: I started talking to myself during the pandemic.

Analyssa: I make a lot of little noises.

Riese: Because I realized—

Analyssa: I’m like a “boop boop boop beep” kind of person, instead of an out loud vocal reactor.

Riese: I just realized I could be talking to myself, and why not?

Analyssa: Yeah. You can be your own best friend.

Riese: Sometimes I found now if I’m really upset at somebody, instead of actually telling them I’m upset about them, which would get us closer to solving the problem, I just talk to them all day out loud, alone, revising my monologue that I will deliver to them, but I don’t. Yeah, so that’s one way to really thrive.

Drew: Let me know how that works out for you.

Riese: Yeah, I’m doing actually fantastic. So then—

Drew: Speaking of people who are doing fantastic.

Riese: Bang, bang, bang, time.

Drew: Shane and Tess are fucking.

Analyssa: Getting it on.

Drew: And then Tess brings up Finley while they’re fucking, and that is a choice that I wouldn’t make.

Riese: She’s like, “We have to fire Finley because we’re enabling her by letting her work at the bar.” Tess is really sticking… Who Finley is, what Finley needs, that’s not relevant. What’s relevant is her preconceived notions about what a person needs to get better, and she is going to impose them on this situation regardless. And that is dedication.

Drew: It feels like the writers read a WikiHow article about your friend’s an alcoholic and have just been going from there.

Riese: They definitely didn’t read one called How To Do An Intervention, because if they had, they would’ve seen that they shouldn’t do one and that that wouldn’t apply to this situation.

Drew: Maybe they didn’t even read a WikiHow article, they just watched a bunch of movies where other people had not read WikiHow articles.

Riese: I honestly think they watched Intervention.

Drew: Oh no.

Riese: You know the TV show, Intervention?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I know it. I was going to say, maybe they’ve watched the Intervention episode of Private Practice, but I actually think that’s a great episode, so I would never bring it up here in this context.

Riese: Another great intervention episode is “L’Ennui” from season one of The L Word, when they have an intervention with Tina and Bette about how boring they are.

Drew: Oh, that is a fun one.

Riese: I thought of that often during this episode and how fun that was.

Drew: You were like, “I wish I was watching that.”

Riese: So she literally interrupts Shane to talk about, which is awful. And then now that that’s already been ruined, then her mom calls and she says they need to hire a new GM. And then she’s moving to Las Vegas. They can do long distance. It seems like a good option.

Drew: Yeah, it seems like a great option.

Riese: Great option.

Analyssa: It’s a really short distance, by the way.

Drew: I’m in a long distance relationship right now. That person’s in another country.

Riese: I am too. My girlfriend lives in Santa Monica.

Drew: Exactly.

Analyssa: Santa Monica on a bad day is about as far from here as Vegas, I think.

Riese: It feels as far. It does feel as far as Vegas. And the other thing about Vegas is that, and I apologize to anyone who lives there, I will say I have been there like 20 times. I dated someone who was from there, so I’ve stayed there extensive periods of time, so I’m not speaking from ignorance. I would not want to live there really.

Drew: In Vegas?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair. And I don’t imagine it would be a great place for Shane either.

Analyssa: More to the point, Shane owns a whole bar in Los Angeles. Physically—

Riese: Yeah. This is probably where a therapist is.

Analyssa: She owns a whole business. It’s not just like, “Oh, I could find another job.” What are we going to do with the bar?

Drew: Also, this is maybe callous, but where are we led to believe Tess’ mom is at as far as her health? Is she dying?

Analyssa: How long is this trip going to be? What is the—

Riese: And speaking of time, which we shouldn’t, because I have now analyzed the full scope of time on this series and it will be better if we just ignore it, Tess and Shane have been dating for, I don’t know, a week?

Analyssa: Yes. But you have to remember that they’ve been in love since the first moment they saw each other.

Riese: That’s true. So that was about two months ago.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. She says they can do long distance. She does ask Shane to go with her.

Riese: I would never do that, ever. I would never ask anyone to come with me.

Drew: I mean, if someone was my partner of four years, maybe.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. But someone of two weeks?

Drew: That’s insane.

Riese: I would be like, this is definitely going to freak them out.

Analyssa: I feel embarrassed that I asked Drew and Alex to move in with me, and we’ve been friends for years.

Drew: I’m really glad you did.

Analyssa: I am too. But sometimes I’m like—

Drew: And it was also, I was looking for a place.

Analyssa: Right. There were reasons.

Drew: You didn’t ask me to move to Vegas with you. I would’ve said, no. Actually, I did have a new girlfriend ask me to move to Vegas with her, and I said, yes. And then I started having panics about it and was like, “I can’t do it.” And then I didn’t move to Vegas.

Analyssa: To Vegas specifically?

Drew: Yeah. Which is interesting. I can’t believe I didn’t think about that until this very moment. I’ve lived so much life.

Analyssa: I do think there’s a shared queer experience here of being asked to move somewhere or asking someone to move somewhere a little prematurely. Saying that gently because I’ve done it. Anyway, something I’ve never done is watch Great British Bake Off, but—

Drew: Oh, I have.

Analyssa: So is Alice.

Drew: Yes. Alice is doing a bit with Paul Hollywood. We don’t see Paul Hollywood, he does not make a cameo. That would’ve been very bizarre and fun.

Riese: Yeah, that would’ve been a funny… They didn’t have any cameos this season, really.

Drew: Not really.

Riese: Oh wait, they did. Lena Waithe.

Drew: We didn’t have any people being themselves like we did last year. We didn’t get to see Alice interview someone on her show except old lesbians, who might’ve been their real selves. We never settled that.

Riese: They weren’t.

Drew: They weren’t.

Riese: I found them in the casting call.

Drew: Oh wow.

Riese: So I don’t even know if they were gay.

Drew: Wow. Betrayal.

Analyssa: Alice comes off stage and is talking to Sophie about her last days on set and says that Sophie can stay at her place while she goes on her book tour. And Sophie’s like, “I’m not moving out. Why would I?”

Riese: What I like is no one ever answers these questions.

Drew: No, no.

Analyssa: What I like is that… No, what I don’t like is that Sophie should’ve just taken her up on that regardless.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: You could go stay in Alice’s fancy house?

Riese: Bring Finley. Yeah.

Analyssa: Obviously.

Riese: Yeah. I would say yes, because I’d want to stay in her house, because it would be nice.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: But also the other thing is that Sophie’s house is really nice too.

Drew: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Riese: Because it’s TV. That’s the problem. You can’t really offer this on TV, because people in TV live outside of their means.

Drew: Right.

Riese: That house that Sophie lives in where her and Micah are paying the rent for the whole thing?

Drew: No.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: That’s like a $5,000 a month house.

Analyssa: Yeah. But if my boss were going out of town for a book tour, and was like—

Riese: For 12 weeks.

Analyssa: “You could stay in my home,” I simply absolutely would.

Riese: Yeah. Well, Tom arrives with the magazine. He’s like…

Tom: Say hello to a cis man named Tom.

Riese: I thought that was funny.

Drew: Yeah. He’s very excited that he was written about in the press, and it’s cute.

Analyssa: And he’s glowing.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s very cute.

Drew: But then things go south, because Alice gets a bad review from the New York Times, and she decides to take that out on Tom, which sometimes you do that with the person who you’re dating, but again, they haven’t been dating long enough for you to do that. But again, I just, we’re going to keep it moving.

Riese: Yeah, we’re going to—

Drew: That’s the sort of thing where you would do that to someone who you’d been with for… I know he was her editor, so there’s also that, but I’m still just like, you just hooked up with your ex and it was this whole thing. Can you just try to be a little bit chill?

Analyssa: Be nice to him.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I thought it was a bit about his face was also very fun.

Riese: Yeah, that was funny.

Analyssa: He’s like, “What do you mean, ‘What do I look like?'”

Riese: Also, I liked that he reminded me of me in this thing, in that he didn’t realize Alice was actually mad at him at first. When she was like, “Who’s responsible for that?” And he’s like, “That would be me.” And then he slowly was like, “Oh, wait a second. She’s legitimately mad.” Yeah. Should we go to the shops?

Analyssa: Our queer elder trio are terrorizing a container store on the east side, I don’t know.

Riese: Another episode of “let’s project our own things onto everyone else’s things.”

Analyssa: Absolutely.

Riese: Bette literally tells Shane to move to Las Vegas, because when you find love like that, you shouldn’t let it go.

Analyssa: Hilariously, because I brought this up last episode, Bette has not given one piece of advice all season. In fact, people have directly asked her, and she’s like, “I simply couldn’t say.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: “I don’t have the answer for you.” I don’t think Shane even asked if she should move with Tess, and Bette was like, “I have an answer for you. Here’s what you should do.”

Drew: I mean, if my friend was dating Jamie Clayton—

Riese: Okay.

Drew: I might be like, “Yeah, you don’t want to… Yeah, you might do whatever you got to do.” But I do think they can just make long distance work.

Riese: Yeah, because it’s not like she’s moving there permanently.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And if she does then Shane can eventually move there.

Drew: Yeah, they can figure it out.

Analyssa: Right. There are some plans to be made in Los Angeles, with regard to, again, Dana’s bar.

Riese: Yeah. Owning a company is a lot of responsibility. You’re kind of stuck with it forever.

Drew: Also, Bette’s complaining about how Pippa thinks that she’s in love with Tina, and Alice… They’re sort of like…

Analyssa: Alice is like, “LOL, you are.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: “Sorry.” And they started going down this like questionnaire of, “Well, what if this happened? And what if Tina showed up, then what if…”

Drew: Shane shares that Carrie is having cold feet, which is… Whew, boy.

Riese: She’s like…

Shane: If Tina was to show up at your doorstep right now…
Bette: Well, I wouldn’t know, because I’m here with you.
Shane: And she says, “I’m in love with you. And I want to try again.” What do you say?
Alice: Oh my God, what would you say?
Bette: It’s a flawed premise.
Alice: Seriously?
Shane: Okay. You know what? I wasn’t going to say anything, but Bette, if you were having any doubts about Tina getting married—
Bette: I’m not having any doubts about Tina getting married.
Shane: Carrie is having cold feet.
Alice: Wait, what?
Bette: How do you know that?
Shane: All I’m saying is if there was ever a time to win her back, I think it’s now or never.

Riese: And then Bette is like, “Hmm.” And I’m like… “Mmm.”

Drew: I’ve never liked Tina more than when she’s with Carrie. Why are they… Why are they… Why?

Analyssa: Well, because.

Drew: Because of the people in our comments sections who are thrilled about it.

Riese: I mean, I’m not against Bette and Tina.

Drew: God, sometimes I forget our outer age difference.

Analyssa: Sorry, they’re shopping literally for Tina and Carrie’s wedding.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Right. When is that happening?

Analyssa: When’s the wedding? How far away is it?

Riese: Palm Springs, apparently. But I don’t even know what day it is.

Drew: At least no one’s interrupting at the altar.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It could have been worse.

Analyssa: If you’re buying gifts, the venue has been reserved, there’s dates in mind. So this is a whole thing. I did think it was very funny that Shane called Alice’s show basically just bits. She’s like “You just do little goofs. You don’t really do anything.” And also I would like to ask how many blue suits that Alice owns?

Riese: She looks cute in this one.

Analyssa: This one is good.

Riese: I love it.

Analyssa: I liked the Dumb and Dumber suit also.

Riese: I like this one better.

Analyssa: You know what my favorite monochrome look of the season is? Remember when she was wearing that emerald green collared tank?

Riese: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: And the green pants?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I loved it.

Riese: Alice’s clothes this season have been so good.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Then my whole mind is blown when we go to court. The smallest court for the biggest case I’ve ever seen.

Drew: Yeah. The witness says that Dani’s dad is responsible for the death of half a million Americans.

Analyssa: Directly responsible, because he knew that something was extra addictive, wherein extra—

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And he actively covered it up.

Drew: And this is apparently the first time that Dani has ever heard about this, or even heard rumors about this, because she starts to have a bit of a panic attack.

Riese: But what was her dad even… Were the Sacklers arrested? Weren’t they just investigated and fined? I don’t think a Sackler is sitting in jail.

Drew: No.

Riese: They would be put on trial, and their punishment would be money. They’d have to give money.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Like the Sacklers have to give billions of dollars to rehabs.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know enough about the Sacklers.

Riese: I have seen maybe five documentaries about the opioid crisis, and have read maybe five longform articles about it, for a total of maybe 25 hours of immersion in this topic. And I don’t understand where this family fits into the bigger narrative. Because apparently the Sacklers also exist in this world, but they’re also not mentioning Purdue Pharma, which manufactured it or anything. And I just can’t really figure out—

Drew: I think you might know more about the real life scenario than they do.

Riese: I actually would agree with you, because I… And actually, we still don’t really understand why was he arrested, why did he get to leave if he was arrested. Because he was saying the board lied to him about stuff. What does that have to do with anything? What was the FBI raiding his home over?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: What does his company do? I thought they did real estate.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t—

Analyssa: I have no idea.

Drew: I have no idea, but I do know that finally Dani has understood that there are moral implications to people dying. And Gigi encourages Dani to leave, and the lawyer is like, “You can’t. That’s not how this works. You’ll be held in contempt of court.” And then instead of being like, “Well, okay. Dani, go on the stand and just plead the fifth.” Gigi’s like…

Gigi: I know it’s hard but just try to be a fucking human being for a second. Look at her. She needs time.
Lawyer: We don’t have time.
Gigi: That’s your fucking problem. Want to go?
Lawyer: Dani, you’ll be held in criminal contempt of court. They will find you.
Gigi: Go fuck yourself.

Analyssa: Now, I don’t know anything about the law, and I should be clear about that. But what I have done is watch a lot of Law & Order: SVU, and many other procedurals that have criminal trials in them.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Can you be held in contempt of court as a witness? Why would the court give a shit that Dani won’t be a character witness for her dad? They want to find him guilty. Ostensibly that’s not how the American legal system works, but like—

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: She’s a witness for the defense. The defense would just have a list of people that they’d be like, “These are the people who can say stuff about him.” And if they didn’t, they’d be like, “Okay, so you don’t have any people who can say nice stuff about you.”

Drew: Yeah, I do think you’re right. I do think you lose a… Sometimes there’ll be like, “We lost our star witness,” or whatever.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Yeah. Exactly. Dani’s the star character.

Riese: Because they’ll kill the star witness.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I think it would only apply if they were actually hoping to use Dani to incriminate her father.

Drew: Oh, I see.

Riese: Like if the prosecution was calling her. But they’re not.

Analyssa: She’s doing trial prep with her dad.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. So anyway, I just feel like these people would not give a flying fuck if Dani goes up on the stage… The court itself would not care if Dani went up on stage and said, “Yes, my dad was a great dad,” or…

Drew: Also like, it could have been so much more… Okay. I’m aware that this is maybe corny, but this is a soap opera. I don’t understand why they didn’t take the opportunity to have Dani get on the stand, and have her little panic… Have the moment, she could have been on the stand. They could have been like, “Do you realize that your father killed half a million people?” And then she could have been like, it could have hit her and then she could have had this big, beautiful moment of realizing that she was wrong, and Bette was right, and that she has been bad, and blah, blah, blah. And she turns on her dad—

Riese: Yes.

Drew: It’s emotional, it’s dramatic, theater, drama, boom, boom. And then we can move on into her going to Gigi’s family, and having new family.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Instead of this non-drama weird thing, and then what happens later.

Riese: Yeah, and again, the smallest courtroom I have ever seen for a case of this alleged possible nature.

Drew: I think I’m just so confused why they constantly are manufacturing drama, but not ever actually even utilizing what they manufactured.

Riese: Right. Exactly. Like the DUI.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: They’re not using it at all.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: At all. And I also don’t… Why even… The Kayla thing, or the Marcus Allenwood thing.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: There are all of these opportunities to make things better. Was this all about COVID? Because other shows shot during COVID.

Analyssa: Correct.

Drew: I don’t think you can blame this on COVID.

Riese: You said, that’s such an obvious opportunity.

Analyssa: And that’s set in the same set.

Drew: It’s in the same set.

Analyssa: It’s not like that would have changed their production.

Riese: Yeah. This episode was 45 minutes long. They had at least, they could have pulled another 15 minutes.

Drew: I’ll let them off the hook for how small the courtroom is for COVID reasons, but there’s no reason you couldn’t have used that small courtroom better.

Analyssa: We do get to hear Gigi say, “Go fuck yourself.” Which I love.

Drew: Yes. It’s always enjoyable to see Gigi in like protector.

Analyssa: Because she loves—

Drew: …mama girlfriend mode.

Analyssa: Speaking of sort of protector mama girlfriend mode, Sophie and Finley are back at the house, and Finley is talking about her day. She got fired, and they of course start to fight about Finley drinking.

Riese: Because Finley’s going to make macaroni and cheese. And then they’re cute for a second. Sophie seems to… But then they kiss, and suddenly kissing is when she can smell the alcohol.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well, and she spills something out of the pot, which I think is supposed to be like she’s maybe drunk, which is like, for us as clumsy people—

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Sometimes we just knock shit over. I don’t know.

Riese: Right. Also this is the first time that they’ve introduced the possibility that Finley is secretly drinking during the day.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah. Sophie says she is going to leave, not permanently, but just has to get out of here because she’s stuck in this cycle with Finley, and it’s just too much. And I just think that this sudden escalation, it just makes it so much easier for someone who doesn’t drink during the day, or doesn’t pee in a hallway, or doesn’t XYZ that we’ve seen Finley do in only the last three episodes, watch this show and go, “Well, that’s an alcoholic, and so I have nothing to examine in my own life about alcohol.” Which is like, “Then why did we do this story?”

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: What is the point of alcoholism storylines on TV, if not to sort of try to get people, not all, to think that they’re alcoholics, but to start conversations and start thought processes. And this just makes it so easy for somebody to watch this and go, “Oh well, I’m nothing like that.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And along those lines, they don’t draw a distinction, they still haven’t drawn a distinction between Finley’s drinking and anyone else’s drinking. And they’ve avoided many opportunities to do that. And this was so frustrating, because Finley was like, “I just have to do it my own way.” And Sophie’s like, “You’ve been doing it your way and you got a fucking DUI.” You actually don’t have to be an alcoholic to get a DUI.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: If you’re a person of that size, you can have two drinks and you can get a DUI. That is not… They think it’s this bomb they’re dropping in the road. “Oh my God, a DUI! Oh my God, she’s an alcoholic!” But no, that’s not actually, it’s not doing what they think is going to do.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And I’m so confused why they introduced it, if not to get her into counseling, or to get her… She has fines to pay, she has probably a court date, she has a point on her license. These are all these repercussions, and I was annoyed to have to see them play out. But now I’m even more annoyed that instead of playing them out, that is seemingly gone. Just completely dropped.

Drew: She was fired by Tess and Shane—

Riese: Right.

Drew: And there’s no comment about, “You are in money problems right now, because of the DUI.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: This is the worst time for you to get fired. There’s no talk of that.

Riese: There’s still no recognition that this DUI was not solely her fault.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Or even as you said, you don’t have to be an alcoholic to get a DUI. Not solely for fault, but genuinely a mistake. The closest they get is when she says, “I had a really bad night.” And the answer to that is “No, you pretty consistently use alcohol in this way that is worrying to us.” But instead they’re like, “No, you got a DUI. What don’t you get about how that’s horrible?”

Riese: How about, “No, every time you’re sad you start drinking”?

Analyssa: Right. Or how about before you hooked up with Sophie, you had never had sober sex before. That kind of stuff is more indicative of a problem than just, “You had too many drinks, and we didn’t plan to take a Lyft, which was dumb.”

Riese: Right. And Sophie was even drunker than Finley was.

Analyssa: And in season one when Tess was sort of Finley’s buddy, and sort of taking care of her, but then of course, relapsed, which is also a mishandling of a situation on this show, it was getting towards a really nuanced, “What does it look like when someone drinks unhealthily and doesn’t really understand that,” because we think that’s how you’re supposed to drink in your twenties.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Finley saying that makes a lot of sense to me.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And why didn’t they have these conversations? Why did they make that DUI, what happened so ambiguous in terms of whose fault it was, or who’s… Not fault, but responsibility it was, if not to do anything with that. If just the next episode to have Sophie be like, “It’s a hundred percent on you, you have a problem, I don’t.” So we’re flinging back and forth between Sophie can’t find Finley, and people bringing alcohol to teenagers to drink before prom.

Drew: Right. And if it was being told more realistically, it would also be more interesting.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Like what I was saying last week of, artistically, it would be more interesting. Both, people would be able to find identification with it, and that could be really helpful. And also, in general, it just would be a better story.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’d be better television. It’d be less predictable and make more sense. So it’s just like, I don’t get it. I don’t get it.

Riese: Yeah, and I feel like this… Because what you’re saying about how people could look at this and feel about it, that she says that they don’t take that time to actually address, no, this is actually what your problem is, not these weird things we’ve created for three episodes. The problems are all of these things that we observed as watchers of the show. But literally, we’ve observed and talked about it so much that I think sometimes I forget that the show hasn’t—

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah. The show doesn’t seem concerned at all with the fact that Finley has never had sober sex. They are like, “That’s totally fine.” What actually is bad, is that she got behind the wheel of a car one night. And to be clear, drunk driving, bad.

Riese: Is bad. No one… Yeah.

Analyssa: Is not the end all be all of Finley’s drinking problem.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah. We’ve never even seen her drive drunk before.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: She rides a Bird around, which you can get a DUI… Well, I don’t know about on a Bird in LA.

Riese: You can get a DUI on a bike.

Analyssa: But you can on a bike. Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. A scene that I did like this television program, is the next one, which is Kayla and Angie and Jordi meet up. They’re all swinging on a swing set, it’s very sweet. And Angie… This was actually, I felt, a really revealing line of dialogue about what she’s kind of going through. She doesn’t want Kayla to feel like she has to cater to her when Kayla’s dad just died. I thought that was really something.

Drew: Yeah. It is.

Analyssa: And Kayla wants Angie to know who he was, because she’s also lost a parent. It would be nice if his memory was… I don’t know, I just thought this was really lovely. And I did, against my own free will burst into tears when this list came out. Which is basically at the Memorial services, Kayla took Angie’s list of questions and asked all of her… I feel like I’m getting emotional right now, asked all of her family to answer them and reminisce on stuff. And I just think that’s really lovely.

Drew: Yeah, that was really beautiful.

Riese: That was nice.

Kayla: Your mom brought by the questions to the hospital, and I went around and had my family answer them.
Angie: Oh my God. Oh, you did not have to do that. Dude, thank you so much.
Kayla: People have the best stories.
Angie: Really?
Kayla: Yeah.
Jordi: Which one’s your favorite?

Analyssa: And I would’ve watched 15 more minutes of this than some other stuff that happens in this episode.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Like perhaps the next scene.

Drew: When Dani is waiting at her dad’s place, and he gets home. She’s like, “I’m sorry, I couldn’t take the stand.” And he’s like, “You’ll do it tomorrow.” And she’s like, “No.”

Analyssa: What I love about this is that she—

Riese: Is the details?

Analyssa: Nope. The details of her outfit are what I was going to say. She’s changed outfits from when she was at court, but she’s still in business attire. Still in slacks.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: If I had gone home and changed out of my clothes from my fancy court clothes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Maybe jeans.

Riese: Dani is either in running clothes or business casual.

Analyssa: I feel like this might’ve been a time that called for athleisure.

Riese: Yeah, you’re right.

Drew: Yeah. She says she can’t see her dad anymore. Is she going to apologize to Bette?

Analyssa: No idea.

Drew: Doesn’t happen in this episode.

Riese: It’s time for Alice’s goodbye party. And again, Alice’s dress is really cute, consistent with the theme this season of Alice wearing really cute outfits. And Tom is really rolling with the punches with this kid, you know?

Analyssa: It’s because she sent a bunch of lobster gummies to him, which I think is cute.

Riese: I hope they had weed in them. I wish there was…

Analyssa: 10 pounds is a lot of gummies to send.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But I think the idea is very funny.

Drew: Yeah, it is cute.

Analyssa: And Bette is trying to suss out the situation with Carrie and Bette also in the background of this scene.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: But more importantly—

Riese: Alice is on the Bestseller list.

Analyssa: Did you know that the New York Times Best Seller list doesn’t actually count the number of books you’ve sold? There’s a whole ranking, weighted system.

Drew: I don’t know anything about it, and I was confused. I was like, “Wait, the book hasn’t come out yet. How’s it already on the Bestseller list? I don’t understand.”

Analyssa: It preferences pre-sales, and it does… There’s a bunch of different things that… I listened to a book presentation at work, from our books department. And there’s just a bunch of things that go into it, that are not just raw numbers, the book has sold more copies than everything else in America this week. Just in case anyone wanted to know.

Drew: I genuinely was like, “Ask question about…” Yeah.

Riese: Have you noticed that everything is on the New York Times Bestseller list.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Everything?

Riese: Yeah, every book I ever look at, it’s like, “New York Times Bestseller.” And I’m like, “How did all of you make it?”

Drew: How long’s the list?

Riese: 10 books per category each week.

Drew: How many categories are there?

Analyssa: Two.

Riese: No, there’s several.

Analyssa: Oh, I thought it was fiction and non-fiction.

Riese: Fiction and non-fiction. They also have graphic novels, or separate children’s YA.

Analyssa: That makes sense.

Riese: Mass market paperback, trade paperback, hard cover.

Analyssa: It’s very much like… You know how the Hollywood Walk of Fame is planned and purchased by representation of the talent who gets the star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame? That’s similar to the New York Times Bestseller list. I’m not saying any book could be a New York Times Bestseller, but there is some behind the scenes—

Drew: Got it.

Analyssa: …maneuvering it seems like. And positioning, and—

Drew: Yeah. That’s generally how things work.

Analyssa: Yeah, exactly.

Riese: Well, whatever it is, I’m sure that this show took the time to look into it, and make sure that this would make sense for Alice.

Drew: Yeah, absolutely.

Riese: So Tess comes in and Shane’s like, “Okay, let’s talk.” Shane’s like, “I have roots here.” And I am like, “What is happening?”

Analyssa: I do wonder about how she’s like, “I remember the first time I ever met you.” First of all, the first time they ever met was when Tess said “Girls like us.” And all of us were confused.

Riese: She was like, “Everyone knows you.”

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Shane said she can’t leave. Tess walks out crying. Shane follows, which I was excited about, because I was like, is she not going to say anything else? Is she going to let this conversation end? I don’t…

Riese: Why are they breaking up?

Drew: It makes no sense. So Shane runs after Tess and Tess is like, “I can’t believe this is what’s going to take us down after everything.” And I’m like—

Riese: After what?

Drew: Why? It doesn’t…

Analyssa: My note says, “Damn bro, Tess talking about this relationship like they’ve been going to war, what has been happening?”

Riese: And why is it ending?

Drew: It’s long distance. You’re lesbians.

Riese: Yeah. Again, my girlfriend lives in Santa Monica. You know how long it takes to get to Santa Monica?

Drew: You know how long it takes to get to Toronto?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Far.

Analyssa: Let’s go around and everybody brag about having a girlfriend. Okay, I get it. Fuck. She just said today that they could try long distance. This day.

Riese: This very day. Yeah.

Analyssa: Where has that gone?

Drew: I don’t know. Didn’t they say, “I love you.” And they kiss, so…

Riese: She says, “I’m in love with you.” As though that’s some new information. I swear, what’s happening? Did everyone stop trying? Come on. I know that these people who have these jobs are more talented than this episode or the last episode or the episode before that

Drew: I don’t… Yeah, what’s going on?

Riese: I was loving the first seven episodes of this season.

Analyssa: Even the first handful I was reading…

Riese: I enjoyed them.

Analyssa: I was rereading your recaps. I was looking at the post I posted and I was like, “Those were fun.”

Riese: Yeah, I was having a nice time.

Analyssa: They were more of what The L Word is normally, which is, this is frustrating because people aren’t like this in real life, but in a fun way, as opposed to a human person would never act in this manner.

Riese: Yeah. And is anyone paying attention? Are Micah and Maribel, who aren’t even in this episode, are they going to…

Drew: They sure aren’t.

Riese: Are they going to tell each other they love each other again? You don’t just walk outside and say, “I’m in love with you.” And that’s some follow up to why you’re breaking up, because you’re moving to Caesars’ Palace?

Drew: I don’t know. Speaking of things that are fucking maddening and shouldn’t be said on television. Bette goes up to Tina and Carrie and this starts off the main chaos of this episode which is that, Carrie leaves to go get drinks, Bette brings the…

Analyssa: Sorry. First Bette is nice to Carrie to get back in Tina’s good graces for this conversation. She’s the nicest she’s ever been to Carrie. Okay.

Drew: Correct. Now then Bette brings up Tina asking if Bette is still in love with her. And then Tina’s like, “I’m getting married.” And Bette’s like, “I just think we need to talk.” And Tina’s like, we don’t need to talk.

Analyssa: And I was like, “Yes. Go Tina!”

Drew: I was like, “Wow. Is Tina going to reject Bette?” I was very excited.

Analyssa: Boundaries. We love them.

Riese: Yeah, like when she rejected Bette for Henry.

Drew: Yeah, I know that. But I want her to be with Carrie. I didn’t want her to be with Henry. That’s the difference. And then Carrie comes back and is like…

Carrie: She’s in love with you. Haven’t I been saying that, Tina?
Tina: Yes, you have.
Carrie: Over and over.
Tina: But it doesn’t matter because I love you.
Carrie: You have no idea what it feels like to walk around trying to measure up to that woman.
Tina: No one expects you to measure up to her.
Carrie: Did you hear yourself?
Tina: What?
Carrie: Did you hear what you just said?
Tina: No, I just mean that I wouldn’t do that.
Carrie: Okay.
Tina: I don’t compare you and I would never do that.
Carrie: I got it.
Tina: Honey.
Carrie: Listen, I love you. I really do.
Tina: Let’s go home, Carrie.
Carrie: I can’t do this anymore, Tina. I really can’t. I’ve tried, Tina.

Riese: What did she hear?

Analyssa: I don’t know how much she heard, but she did have a stance of someone who’d been standing there for a long ass time.

Riese: I just want to say that I think it’s like a rule of, I don’t know, physics, algebra, geometry, something. If you’ve been together with somebody long enough to actually be engaged, your breakup is going to take a little bit longer than 10, 15 seconds.

Drew: I think maybe. But yeah. Tina yells at Bette. Pippa sees. It really couldn’t have gone worse.

Analyssa: Couldn’t have gone worse.

Drew: And I’m not just talking about the acting, I am talking about what’s on screen.

Analyssa: Tina delivers the line to Carrie, “No one expects you to measure up to her,” about Bette. Which is just…

Drew: Oof…

Analyssa: Devastating.

Riese: And then somehow Pippa just senses it.

Analyssa: Well, I think the idea is that she heard, one of… She can just see that this has caused chaos and she knows that the thing she thought was going to happen was going to happen.

Riese: I wrote this scene in fourth grade, is my feeling. The speed at which this all takes place and falls apart. Again, these are incredibly dramatic things happening that could have really been… I know that you would’ve hated it because no one here… But I want her to be with Pippa because Pippa is the better partner. I think it would be important and great for this show to actually have a Black character that is dating, who might be back for season three. That would be fantastic. But in terms of the Bette and Tina drama, I’m kind of always here for it. And I really think they could have… This is their core drama and this whole thing transpires in two minutes of nothingness.

Drew: Do you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of Lez Girls. It reminds me of Jenny Schecter’s rewrites of the early L Word seasons.

Riese: Absolutely. Yeah.

Drew: In that, it’s bad.

Riese: Yeah. And again, this episode is the shortest episode we’ve had so far and…

Analyssa: It could have been longer. We could have had more conversation. I wasn’t as mad about… I was mad about the speed with which this happened. Again, please remember, leading with love and light, it’s new for me. No, but genuinely, I wasn’t mad about the dialogue. I was mad about how fast it happened, but I was like, “This feels chaotic and finally some good fucking food.” Was it really good? No. But was it like, “I’ve been kind of hungry for a while so this tastes really good.” Maybe.

Drew: With what’s been set up with Pip… With Bette and Pippa. I combined… I did their ship name. Their ship name.

Analyssa: Do they have a ship name?

Riese: Bippa. Yeah, I just created it.

Analyssa: It’s Bippa or Pit.

Riese: Pet?

Analyssa: Pet? Don’t like that either.

Riese: Bippa.

Drew: Okay. So what’s been set up with Bette and Pippa, it’s just to have Bette say to this person, “You’ve made me think about my queerness and my Blackness in ways that I never had before.” And then to be like, but actually we’re not going to get into any of our dynamic that’s going to be really rushed in this season and it’s mostly going to be around the fact that Dani’s dad is a bad person. And then I’m going to go back with Tina who didn’t want to have a Black child.

Analyssa: Speaking of things that were confusing.

Riese: Time.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: What… How…

Analyssa: Where is this underground party that Finley is attending?

Riese: They do nighttime B roll between the party and the next scene, which is in this rave or something. Cause you know how Finley is, always in the daytime going to these raves. And in a hoodie or a jacket. She’s overdressed for a rave. It’s too warm in there.

Analyssa: Remember that time, though, she wore two sweaters?

Riese: That’s true.

Analyssa: So maybe she runs cold?

Riese: She must run cold like you, unlike me and Drew, we would be sweating.

Analyssa: Sometimes I wore long sleeves and jeans to Gay Astrology.

Drew: That’s impressive.

Riese: So somehow it’s night…

Analyssa: But then Finley emerges into the daytime.

Drew: Well, I think the idea is that she’s been dancing at the club for… Is she doing coke? I don’t think with alcohol she’s going to be able to go all night that way. She needs to get some other drugs in her. She should have nothing in her except Sophie’s hands.

Riese: Let’s talk about poppers, a real issue in the community. First she’s having these Sophie flashbacks, which were cute, but also made me think, “You know what would be great? Is to have flashbacks of your problematic drinking behavior or something, where we’re actually seeing you connect these dots.” But okay. I love a highlight reel of my favorite ship that they have really, really, really done a number on.

Drew: Yeah. She stumbles out in what I assumed was the morning, but could just be this whole thing was in the daytime and then…

Riese: But could it be? Because why did they show night B roll right before it?

Drew: I assumed to establish that she was dancing all night long.

Analyssa: I would go to this underground party and dance all night long.

Riese: You would?

Analyssa: I would. Not right now. There’s a pandemic outside, but I would.

Riese: Okay, I admire you. Finley almost gets hit by a car and then I guess she dies.

Drew: They make it seem like she got hit by a car. And I was like, “Are you fucking kidding me?” And they were fucking kidding me, but in a weird, twisted way because… No. She’s at Sophie’s.

Riese: What… I said I wasn’t going to talk about time.

Drew: She says, she’s going to go to rehab. That’s what we get.

Analyssa: Has it been 24 hours since then, you think?

Riese: Also Finley said she’s sorry and Sophie’s like, “It’s too late for that.” And I’m like, “Is it? Why?”

Drew: I don’t even… I can’t even. Okay. So then, okay… Okay. God dammit. I forgot how annoyed I was.

Riese: My favorite part of this is that we cut directly from this conversation of Finley going to rehab, to shots. The next frame is everyone doing shots. And by the way, with the timeframe… I don’t have to get into this. With the time frame literally everyone in this show has been drinking every single day except for Bette.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. So Gigi is introducing Dani to her whole family.

Analyssa: She’s wearing a great outfit for that event.

Drew: And it’s so cute.

Riese: I’m so happy for Dani.

Drew: I’m so thrilled with where this was going. I was like, “Yes, this is great.” Because she left her dad and look, it’s really hard to cut off family. And especially when her dad’s really her only family she has. She just lost Sophie and Sophie’s family.

Riese: And he’s killed half a million people.

Drew: Yeah. But it’s just… I really liked the idea that now she is being brought into this new family. Is it crazy considering how long she’s been dating Gigi? Yes. Would anyone I’m dating ever meet my family within three months even of me dating them? Absolutely not.

Riese: Oh really? I would. I would do it earlier than that for sure.

Drew: Oh, wow. Well, we’re all different people and that’s beautiful. But I was still happy about this. Despite being complicit in the deaths of half a million people, I really like Dani and Gigi together. And I was like, “Oh, this is overwhelming and cute. And I like this.” I like that Dani isn’t evil anymore, and I can stand Gigi.

Analyssa: And Gigi notes that Dani is freaking out and handles it so quickly and in a very fun way. Like, “All right, now we’re just going to go have fun.”

Riese: Also, I think they’re all speaking in Farsi, which they’re like, “Finally, after Nat,” to have this girl who actually can talk to them in Farsi is probably really great. And it seems really wonderful and happy. Oh well.

Analyssa: Hope nothing happens to change that. Back at Bette’s, Bette is telling Angie that she’s going to skip the CAC Gala because… Well, she doesn’t say why, but it’s because Pippa is going to be there, just so everyone knows at home. And she says that she has something for Angie.

Riese: Yeah. I, again, cried.

Analyssa: Big. Also Jordan Hull just has a great face.

Drew: She’s such a good actor.

Riese: And this was really sweet. This was a really sweet scene. So Marcus did a painting that seems to be of Angie when she was a kid called, “Her.” And Angie tears up about it, I want to say. Anyway, it’s really touching and moving. So she tells her to go to the show tonight because we don’t know how much time we have left, which is like, “Okay, my God.”

Drew: Yeah. I was like, “Finally Beth’s comforting her daughter and being the parent.” And then I was like, “Oh nope, she’s back to comforting Bette.” They have a real Gilmore Girls thing going. Okay, so then Alice is on a plane with Tom. He goes to the bathroom, which I did really like this representation because I also need to… I pee before I board the plane.

Analyssa: Yeah. That’s what I was going to say. Would you get on the plane and immediately pee?

Drew: Yes, I have to, because I get anxious. I get anxious that I’m going to be trapped and have to pee and not be able to get up. And I don’t want to… because I can’t.

Riese: Even if you just peed in the airport? Which is the normal thing to do.

Drew: Yes. I’ll pee twice. I’m not mentally well. I didn’t say I was mentally well. But because if I’m at the window seat or the middle seat, I cannot ever ask someone to get up if — or they’re sleeping or who knows. I’m always very scared about being trapped and having to pee and having to hold it for six hours. And so I will pee in the airport, then boarding can take like 15 minutes and then I’ll pee again in the plane.

Riese: Wow. As soon as I get on the plane, I’m just praying to God I’m not going to have to pee in that console.

Analyssa: The number of times I’ve peed on a plane is so minimal because I just instantly fall asleep and I wake up when we are touching back down.

Drew: That’s beautiful.

Riese: I pee right before I get on the plane to avoid it. But anyways, so Tom…

Drew: Tom goes to pee and then Alice finds an engagement ring. But…

Analyssa: What?

Drew: I think, okay…

Riese: This to me was actually the most bananas part of the episode.

Drew: I think that it’s not an engagement ring.

Riese: Right. How could it be?

Drew: I think that it is Tom’s ex-wife’s… When did Tom and his ex-wife break up?

Analyssa: Why would I know that information?

Riese: He didn’t have an ex-wife. He had an ex-girlfriend who married his friend.

Drew: Oh right. I was really thinking, “It must be something else. It’s an old ring from someone else that was returned…” No, I guess he’s proposing. That’s bonkers.

Riese: They’ve been dating for three days.

Drew: She just had sex with Nat. It was a whole thing.

Analyssa: Sorry. What’s also bonkers is Alice goes, “Please be a pen, please be a pen, please be a pen.” And I would just like to ask… When have either of you ever used a pen that was shaped like an engagement ring box?

Drew: I think rich people have the longer boxes for pens.

Riese: Maybe she’s into minis.

Drew: She should have been like, “Please be earrings.”

Riese: This, I was just like, come on, come on, guys. I know everyone in the writers’ room was smarter than this. What were they doing? This is so silly.

Drew: It must be something else. I don’t know what.

Analyssa: They must be planning for something.

Drew: But it must be something else. It makes no sense if he’s proposing.

Riese: It doesn’t fit with his personality, doesn’t fit with their relationship.

Drew: What else could it be?

Riese: Because as soon as — I immediately told Gretchen about this… Because I was like, “You will not believe this most insane thing of this episode.” And I really was racking my brain for what it could possibly be. He got it for a friend? What?

Analyssa: It’s his emotional support engagement ring. Please, be respectful.

Riese: And if I were Alice and I saw that, I wouldn’t think he’s going to propose to me because it’s been three days. Actually I would think, “Oh my God, I’m on a whirlwind romance. He’s going to propose to me.”

Drew: Do you know what I would do? First of all, I wouldn’t…

Riese: You’d directly communicate about it?

Drew: But I wouldn’t look through… I wouldn’t reach into the pocket of… I would be like, “It’s not an engagement ring because we’ve been together for three days.” So I don’t need to know what’s in my very new significant other’s pocket.

Analyssa: I would reach into the pocket.

Drew: If I did see…

Analyssa: I’ll be honest on this pod. I would reach in… If I felt a box that seemed like an engagement ring, and he had told me to put his jacket in the thing, I…

Riese: Why is it in the pocket of his blazer?

Drew: But then what I would do. Also, yeah, putting it up there? That’s an expensive ring. Anyways, I would be like, “This fell out of your jacket.” You know what I mean? I would lie. So I’d either be very honest or not honest at all.

Analyssa: I would never confront him about it. I would just sit with the knowledge.

Drew: I would be like, “This fell out of your pocket.”

Riese: Ana would be asleep.

Analyssa: I would look at that and go, “Not my problem.”

Drew: I’d actually be the one in the bathroom. So it’s my ring.

Analyssa: Okay. So Drew has a ring to propose to me. I dig in the pocket of Drew’s jacket. Sorry, that’s just me being honest about who I am as a person, I look at it. I go, “That’s fucking weird.” Then I put it back. I sit down and I sleep for the next seven hours and see if he figures his shit out in the meantime.

Drew: Great. What’s happening next? Oh, Tess leaves Shane. That’s what I wrote in my notes. That can’t be right.

Riese: Yeah. She wakes up and she gets the call. Tess, I guess, she’s moving pretty fast.

Analyssa: She’s dipping out on Shane in the middle of the night. Shane is fully asleep.

Riese: And now we finally get back to the set of Shane’s apartment. Also is Tess subletting her apartment? Did she pack? What’s happening?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: How long has it been since they… What?

Drew: I don’t know. I don’t know. But then Sophie drops…

Riese: Finley off at a hotel.

Drew: So, Sophie drops Finley off at rehab and it is, I don’t know. I just…

Analyssa: Do you guys think… Just play along with me here… Do you think that at fancy rehabs, they still give those psych ward socks to people? Do you guys all know what those psych ward socks are when I say them?

Riese: Yeah. I’m familiar with the psych ward socks, yeah.

Analyssa: Do you think Finley gets a pair of those?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: Those are the nicest socks ever. Those are great to have.

Riese: I was like, “Why aren’t they kissing goodbye?”

Analyssa: Nothing.

Riese: Finley asks if Sophie will still be here and she says, “Yes.” And then Finley gets out and there’s some nice valet guy. Obviously they didn’t shoot this at a hotel because it is like the drop-off situation is established for multiple cars to be coming up.

Analyssa: It’s secluded.

Drew: I’m not super knowledgeable about this so correct me if I’m wrong. But why doesn’t she go to a meeting first? Why is she going to a fancy rehab facility first?

Riese: Yeah. That’s what we’ve been saying since the beginning.

Analyssa: No idea.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Not even a meeting, she hasn’t even just said, “I’m going to not drink tomorrow” yet.

Drew: Right.

Riese: She hasn’t even done that. She hasn’t gotten a therapist.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: She hasn’t talked to even one single person about this.

Riese: She hasn’t even talked to Sophie about it.

Drew: I get that Alice has money to throw around, but I don’t get it. It doesn’t seem like the move, which you’ve said extensively. I think when they pull up, I was especially like, “We’re just jumping right to it.” It wasn’t like, “Oh, I’ll go to rehab, but we’re going to see the steps in order to… Do I need rehab?” This was when I was like, “Oh, she’s just going to rehab.” The idea was she was going to leave that intervention and get in a car.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Which I think your point, that they’ve only watched the television show Intervention, is correct.

Riese: Right. And people on that show are on, I would say, a much more traditional rock bottom path than we have found here with Finley.

Analyssa: And I feel like interventions, conventionally, are supposed to be used as a last resort.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Right, right.

Riese: Literally, that’s the point is every other thing has failed.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And she hasn’t tried anything.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: No one’s tried anything around her.

Riese: There’s even medication that people can take to… There’s all these different things you can try before you go to rehab. But I think…

Analyssa: I might suggest, and this is not from personal experience, that she maybe try attending a 12 step meeting and see if she cries inconsolably the whole hour.

Riese: Yeah. She could read a book.

Analyssa: And that might do something for her. I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I’m going to mention this on the podcast so you have to include it in the show notes, which is your essay about The Recovering by Leslie Jamison.

Riese: Yeah. She could read…

Analyssa: Try reading that, it might help.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Riese: And if meetings aren’t for her, then there’s other things that she could find. There’s just all kinds of things that she could do.

Analyssa: Yeah. Also so many meetings are on Zoom now that the investment is so much lower than having Alice pay for this fancy rehab where…

Drew: To be fair, there wasn’t Zoom in this world.

Riese: Honestly, in real life, if this was real life…

Analyssa: I mean Zoom existed before the pandemic.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: If this was real life the next day Tess would be like, “Hey, you prob…” Because first of all, Finley probably would’ve had to go to meetings, as part of her DUI thing.

Drew: Right, which would’ve been a better storyline.

Riese: And Tess would’ve been like, “Come with me.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: “I’m going to a meeting tonight. Come with me.” That’s literally exactly what would’ve happened.

Analyssa: I can’t believe that that didn’t happen in the first season when the opportunity presented itself.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Instead they said, “What if someone who is living soberly and trying to look out for another alcoholic relapsed?”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: “And then we didn’t…”

Riese: And had sex with the alcoholic.

Analyssa: “And then we didn’t think about the baby alcoholic for six more episodes. And then next season, we bring it back.”

Drew: She had someone’s fiance to have sex with.

Riese: Tess didn’t go to rehab.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Nope.

Riese: And it’s great. Honestly, I would love to go to rehab. It seems really nice. Like the rehab that Alice described, they have a pool, they have a beach. You’re going to talk about yourself all day.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: You get really nice food.

Analyssa: I bet instead oh psych word socks, they get like a fancy set of pajamas.

Riese: Yeah. She’s probably going to be walking around in cashmere. She’s going to meet celebrities. She’s going to have a great time. But yeah, no, this is definitely a pretty dramatic choice. Also when she’s like, “Will you be here when I get out?” How long is she going to be there? Maybe a week? It’s going to cost Alice like 50,000 bucks a day.

Drew: I have no idea. It makes no sense. I mean, it’s just so frustrating. Also frustrating is that, I was so happy that Dani and Gigi were just… I was so happy for them. And then Dani gets arrested for contempt of court.

Riese: Which is so embarrassing.

Drew: Which we already discussed doesn’t really make sense. And also, why did it have to… It’s just… why? Why?

Riese: It’s not like she’s a murderer. Do they really need to bust into…

Drew: No, it makes no sense.

Riese: The cops need to go get her at dinner? The show, first of all, loves the cops.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: And second of all, I hated this.

Drew: I hated it so much. It’s so stupid.

Analyssa: I did love Gigi arguing with the cops in the background? Because that’s just her whole deal.

Drew: It’s just so interesting to me because clearly… I get that they’re trying to have all the different characters end with some sort of big cliffhanger, except they’re not because Micah is not even in this episode. So if we can—

Riese: He was at the very beginning, he said to Finley, “It’s not one night.”

Drew: Oh right.

Riese: And then I was like, “Oh, what other nights was it?” And then no one said anything.

Drew: Right, I forgot about him being at the intervention. But we end Micah’s storyline with him, just I guess becoming a husband, and is happy and we don’t even get to spend time with his storyline in the finale because they don’t care about him, because they simply do not care about telling trans stories. But we can’t have one other storyline end somewhat happily, when she’s just had to confront the fact that her dad killed half a million people and never speak to her father again?

Riese: Yeah, and us too. We’ve just had to confront the fact that her dad—

Drew: Yeah, we can’t just have one couple… There’s enough other drama happening that is bad and manufactured. We can’t just have this couple just end with things being pretty good?

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: It’s so boring.

Analyssa: That’s not how season finales work, Drew.

Drew: I know that but then do be more creative. If you have to have drama everywhere, then make drama everywhere.

Riese: I wanted a musical montage and in the musical montage in my mind, Tess and Finley are going to a meeting together.

Analyssa: Beautiful.

Riese: And Sophie’s at home writing in her diary or masturbating, and Micah and Maribel are—

Drew: Having a threesome with the hot doctor.

Riese: Having a threesome with the hot doctor from the LGBT Center and Dani and Gigi are just boning, raw boning after a nice night with the fam.

Drew: That sounds like a great montage. Wait, what song is it set to?

Riese: And Dani’s dad breaks the fourth wall, speaks directly to the camera and is like, “I know that you guys, first of all, don’t really understand my storyline and furthermore don’t care about it so I’m going to see myself out.”

Drew: Beautiful.

Riese: He got more screen time than Sophie’s wonderful family.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wonderful surprise transphobic family.

Drew: He maybe got more screen time than Micah.

Analyssa: Okay, well here we are. We’ve arrived at the CAC and so has Pippa.

Riese: I love the red carpet at the art gallery opening.

Analyssa: Love the red carpet, love that Pippa arrives in a big car and there’s people interviewing her and taking photos of her.

Riese: And this was like, is it just you? And then she turns around as if Bette would—

Drew: Bette’s about to… Yeah, well because Bette is planning on going now, so her daughter’s advice really settled into her soul—

Analyssa: and she has this beautiful pair of wide leg pants that she would like to wear this evening.

Riese: Yeah, she has her own psych ward socks that she’s wearing covered in glitter.

Drew: But then she opens the door and who’s there but…

Tina: Hi.
Bette: What are you doing here?
Tina: Can I come in?

Riese: Tina!

Drew: Tina Canard.

Riese: Tiny Tina. It’s Tina.

Analyssa: Tina’s here.

Riese: That’s the episode. I knew she was going to be there.

Drew: And the squeals of Bettina shippers everywhere.

Riese: Lit up the night.

Analyssa: I’ll say it, I squealed a little bit. I’m upset—

Riese: I knew it was going to happen, but I was like, “Oh, you know what?” But I think a lot of that was driven by first of all, I want this show to get renewed because even though I hate it, I love it. Except for these last three episodes, I really have disliked. And I would say this was the second worst episode of the season.

Drew: Yeah, I think so. I would say these last three and the first one were far worse than the other six. I would say the first one was far better than these last three. And I would say that yeah, I agree with your order of these last three.

Riese: Yeah. This one is just, I mean the engagement ring.

Analyssa: But this one felt closer, I told drew this, I feel like I felt closer to being mad at The L Word in the way that I love to be mad at The L Word, versus thinking about whether I’m mad at the writers of The L Word. You know what I mean?

Riese: I am actually I think mad at that writer.

Drew: I don’t know. I mean, if the show gets renewed… Okay.

Riese: I hope everyone had a nice time listening to us complain.

Drew: I mean if they would—

Riese: You can look forward to our spinoff podcast which is just about Finley.

Drew: We wouldn’t complain if it was better.

Riese: Right, I want to like it!

Drew: Do you remember the karaoke episode? Even I loved it!

Riese: Spreading love and light over here.

Analyssa: I really tried. Do you think they did any better? I don’t. Yeah, I want to be excited about watching this show. I want to love this show. Are people watching it? I feel like general sentiment has been with us, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Like in the comments of your recaps and stuff.

Riese: Yeah. I think there was one person who was really mad and so they didn’t want to listen to the podcast anymore.

Drew: Yeah, which is fine, you don’t have to…

Analyssa: We’ve got a couple of those.

Drew: The great thing about podcasts and — what I will say is I’m a bit of a hypocrite, because I was about to say the great thing about podcasts is you don’t have to listen to them. But the great thing about television shows is you don’t have to watch them. But I don’t know. I mean, it will depend on a lot of things. I think it will depend on what the writer’s room looks like. I just, I can’t do this again. I can’t. It is painful for me. It makes me feel the way that watching the documentary Disclosure made me feel. Living in that head space or watching and writing about Silence Of The Lambs. These things that are these heavy representational failures, that are artistic failures, that are moral failures, and just make me feel bad about myself and about my community. And I love The L Word, I love the original show. There’s so much stuff that is cringe inducing, but the first four seasons, which I think we all know are not perfect by any means, I still love them.

Riese: Season three was really bad.

Drew: I like season three more than season five, which I know is a big disagreement that we have.

Riese: Yeah, that’s incorrect.

Drew: Which is fine, we can all have our opinions. But I think I’m really not that harsh… I’m not the kind of person who is like, “Oh, this is transphobic And I hate it and I…” I am someone who’s like, art’s complicated, things don’t have to be perfect, live in the complexity, but the last three episodes were not fun. I don’t enjoy getting on this podcast and bitching about it and so I might just give the show back to the cis white lesbians and move on with my life.

Riese: Yeah. I think that my feelings about the show are very tied up in the fact that every week I have to spend… This might be a good moment to talk about our fundraiser at Autostraddle. Which is that every week I have to spend about a full-time amount of hours on the show when it comes to the recapping, the screen caps. Writing the recap takes approximately forever. And then there is also the podcast and watching and listening to edits and all that stuff. The amount of time I have to spend with each episode is extensive and so that’s why when it’s not a good episode, I get more upset than a normal person probably would because I just feel annoyed that I have to… I was enjoying recapping it a lot more before when I was talking about the story and the characters. And I do feel like in terms of picking this certain thing with Finley, that it was like, first of all, how dare you? I was really unhappy with the stories that they chose.

Analyssa: Yeah. For us as lesbians, I feel sad.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right, for Riese, you can’t just watch the episode and be like, “Ugh, what a bad episode of TV,” and just move on with your life the way you could about some other show that you watch. I’m one of those little mice that presses the lever to get the bad drug. I will watch a bad show just for two hot people kissing and that makes me happy, or there’s some campy dialogue and that is fun, or someone throws a drink in someone’s face. I’ve watched my fair share of bad television that I had fun watching, and I just want this to be that. I want to be having fun. And I think it’s hard too to be doing… I don’t want to be like, “It’s so hard to do this podcast,” because it’s not, it’s very fun to talk with my friends and to talk to my friends who are listening. I love that part of it, but it’s tough to not even have the built-in nostalgia factor of the original L Word. This is happening in real time to me as a person. I’m watching it unfold in real time and having real emotions about it, versus re-watching something which I’ve already emoted about and now I’m talking about what that felt like or whatever.

Drew: I mean, something that I will say is that I think oftentimes when we talk about media and representation in media, we frame things in this way that is linear and therefore we’re like, “Oh well we’ll excuse things in 2006 that we won’t excuse now.” And I do think that it would be helpful if we didn’t do that because I think so often it’s a lot more complicated than that, and I think this feeling of, “Well they should know better now,” they should and also there has been media that has been better than this. Maybe it wasn’t on Showtime, but there are aspects of the original L Word that I think have better trans representation than the current iteration of The L Word. And it’s different. The problems are different but I think it’s important to be able to talk about… I don’t know. I mean, and that’s why I like doing this podcast because I do think that we both can have fun and critique and I love—

Analyssa: I thought you were saying we both as in two people in this room and I was like, “Who did Drew—”

Riese: Yeah, me too I was like, “I wonder who it is.”

Drew: No, all of us can both. But I don’t know, I’m losing hope that this franchise is ever going to really grow.

Analyssa: Okay. I love to call it a franchise if you were doing an outward spinoff, not The Farm which already existed and not Gen Q which is in fact kind of a spinoff.

Riese: I really think Gen Q has potential.

Analyssa: I do too.

Drew: Of course, but it had potential last year and then this fell apart.

Riese: But I do like these characters and I do think they were doing a really good job and I really just don’t understand what happened.

Drew: Yeah. I would do a Lisa the lesbian..

Riese: Sure.

Drew: Or the vampire.

Analyssa: I want an Office comedy of making The Alice Show.

Drew: Oh that’s fun.

Analyssa: I feel like hijinks occur and you know she employs a ton of queer people so there’s all sorts of hookup drama there.

Riese: Oh yeah, that’d be cute.

Analyssa: Sophie and Finley are not the only people who have fucked in that green room.

Riese: Making out in the green room.

Drew: I like that. That’s really fun.

Analyssa: The misadventures of that guy who’s getting her soup.

Drew: If Pippa leaves Bette… I guess Bette’s already leaving Pippa or whatever’s happening, I would follow Pippa around. I’d watch the Pippa show.

Analyssa: Honestly, I’m with Riese. I am not anti the Bette and Tina return. I would watch it if it was again, like I said, finally some good fucking food. I don’t know, that stuff is more fun to me to watch and yell about and be annoyed about than the rest of it and so it’s fun.

Drew: Right. But the problem is that Pippa was not introduced as just a hot person for Bette to have this brief affair with, she was introduced to someone who was opening Bette up to her Blackness and her queerness.

Analyssa: No, I agree.

Riese: That’s where I get upset about her being with Tina.

Drew: The problem is that Bette and Pippa’s relationship was framed in this way that was so heavy, and so then to not let that play out to then be fun, it ruins it. And so then it’s frustrating because yeah, okay Bette and Tina need to be together because of television rules, fine. There are other couples that I can be invested in. It’s just more the thing of being like, “Oh, then what was the point of all of that?” Which I know we all agree on, but I’m just like ugh, you know?

Riese: Well, I do want to talk about how we’re having a fundraiser right now at Autostraddle and if you have enjoyed this podcast and all of the many hours that we have put into analyzing this program for you, or even if you didn’t enjoy the podcast but for some reason are still listening to it, then I think that you should donate to our fundraiser. We have really great perks, we have really great content and stuff that’s going to come out that is going to try to convince you to do it and you should do it. You should just give us money because it costs money to make.

Drew: Yes. Independent queer media is really important because the kinds of conversations that we are having about this show and that we have about a lot of things, aren’t possible often when you don’t have that sort of independence, but it requires money.

Riese: Yes, so please, autostraddle.biz, please go and give us your money and then hopefully we will one day do this podcast again. And Drew may or may not be on it.

Analyssa: Carol will be installed as the third host.

Drew: If you liked when I was happy but don’t like when I’m critical, I do co-host the other Autostraddle podcast that also will potentially get more episodes if Autostraddle gets the money that we need in this fundraiser. So shout out to Wait, Is This A Date? Shout out to Autostraddle, shout out to To L and Back, and shout out to you giving us money.

Riese: Thank you guys for listening to our podcast this season. Listen to Drew’s podcast about dating.

Analyssa: Follow me on Letterboxd.

Riese: Follow Ana on Letterboxd and well, you know where I’ll be forever and ever. That’s all, we had fun.

Analyssa: We promise we had fun, we hope you guys did too.

Riese: We did have fun, yeah. And I think everyone did okay.

Drew: Yes.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at [email protected]. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Drew: Mine is “leaving” because if they don’t get their act together, I’m leaving.

Riese: That’s good. Mine is “lactose intolerant” because I think that maybe Tom is lactose tolerant and that’s why she sent gummies, because there wasn’t any lactose in the gummies.

Analyssa: The only word I can think of that starts with L is “lasagna” and so now here’s my improv on how that relates to this season and next. Well, a lasagna is some good food and you know what I would love next season is good food from this show. And you know what I had some of this season? Some good food.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah.

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Analyssa is a co-host of the To L and Back podcast: Gen Q edition. She lives in LA, works at a TV studio, and can often be found binge-watching an ABC drama from 2008. You can follow her on Twitter, Instagram, or her social media of choice, Letterboxd.

Analyssa has written 58 articles for us.


  1. It occured to me listening to this episode that it feels like once the karaoke episode happened, the show basically truncated in rapid sucession a whole season 3 worth of storylines given the change of pacing from the comparatively much better first 6 episodes. There was for (most of) these storylines/twists a more natural way to get to any of these twists if they hinted that there was trouble on the horizon to different characters- Finely is being shown to drink more or have more concerning behavior unlike “typical 20s”, Tess needs to be long distance but there’s more complicating factors that may be a problem for season 3, Pippa is noticing Bette’s attachment to Tina is not what she says it is and shares a look with Carrie like “hmm”, Dani finds out before the court date how the deaths of 500,000 people were kept from her(!!!) or even introduce the museum controversy as lead in for next season, etc. Frankly the cycling of these interesting premises to jam conclusions that they could afford to explore next season is what gets me and they could have wrapped up storylines they wanted done by the finale instead, like Micah and Angie figuring out their storylines with the weight they deserved. I love this show and all, but all I felt this last few episodes was to tell the writers to pump the breaks.

    • i’ve also been thinking this, that they could’ve gotten an entire season out of what they burned through. the final episodes did too many things at once and all of them came out surface level. i’m watching season three regardless, just hoping the show does the right amount of material for the number of episodes they get.

      happy 100 entries on the podcast! seems like some of those entries are not precisely episodes but 100 is 100. you’ve all made genq season 2 brighter for me, including and especially drew.

  2. Two major questions I realized went unanswered: Finely went to Kansas City and was suddenly “fine” with her familial/ religious trauma. No elaboration on what that meant or looked like, losing a compelling part of Finely’s season one characterization that could have came back after finally returning to her relationship with Sophie and sharing intimacy with her, especially since her addiction issues continued.

    Also Dani had plans with Bette for some kind of job opportunity- it didn’t seem connected to the museum at all so did that got dropped and of it was connected to the Nunez wing…how is it related?

    • Yes I’m so confused about Finley’s past and offeason trip home! She got kicked out of her parents’ house at 18, but went to Missouri to hang with her fam and was able to quit drinking while there? If anything, that would make me drink more.

    • Dropping Finley’s complex and nuanced familial/religious trauma in favour of a crudely-drawn cartoon stereotype of alcoholism is one of the most unforgivable things about this season.

      I wondered all season what Dani did for a job between Bette losing the election and her becoming CEO of Evil, Inc. I guess her dad just bought her stuff?

  3. Thank you all for the season of entertainment. I don’t think I’d watch the l word without being able to feel like “my people” are in it with me. Like, when an episode is bad, I want y’all to be mad at it with me! That’s been the fun part – the l word is so often terrible yet sometimes amazing, and this whole rollercoaster would be bonkers if we pretended it all made sense or that stuff was always okay. So, thank you all for this. I’ve looked forward to this podcast every week and am bummed season 2 is over, even if the quality of the episodes was going to stay terrible, cuz I’ll miss the podcast. here’s a hope for a season 3 that makes sense and that you can genuinely have fun recapping – for all of our sakes and so Drew stays on as a podcaster bc her voice is so fun and insightful at the same time! Thanks Riese for basically taking on another job every time an l word thing happens, and Annalyssa I hope you write more articles bc that book review one was amazing

  4. Thank you for this great recap!

    If this show has provided anything I think it’s that I really appreciate good TV writing now. All week I’ve been watching other shows and I keep thinking “now this is what a well written show looks like,” so thanks L Word Gen Q!

  5. I don’t know if this has been said because everyone was so caught up in how these last three episodes tanked the season, but um….HELENA???? Where??? I was lead to believe we’d be getting Helena and we did not. I must have vengeance.

  6. The contrast between the joyful, excited tone of the season 1 finale podcast to the grim, disappointed pall of this one (despite Analyssa’s best efforts!) illuminates how the show has faltered.

    I still believe in the actors and characters, and desperately hope for a season 3, if only so it doesn’t end this way –– but also because I think it can do better. It has been better.

    On an unrelated note: I also felt like overall the sex scenes this season felt less fun, sexy, and authentic?

    I don’t know that I’ve seen anyone else comment on this, so maybe it’s just me. But it felt like there were fewer sex scenes overall, and they were often less intimate – a lot more were brief flashes rather than true scenes, or intimated rather than shown, or the ones that maybe were more extended and hot were positioned within the narrative to feel more problematic (eg., Bette using Gigi, Dani using Gigi, guys Gigi deserves better and I hope Dani can deliver – and not from jail; Tess bringing up firing Finley etc).
    Also many of the scenes were fully or partially clothed (with exceptions, like Tess and Shane).

    Maybe I just noticed it more because I’ve rewatched season 1 in the last couple of weeks (in the wake of 207 airing, tbh), and even the pairings I didn’t care about as much in terms of characters/plot in season 1, I still felt like most of the intimate moments were specific and revealing and hot (I’m thinking here of the uncomfortable Finley/Tess hookup for instance). It made me wonder: was it covid restrictions? On a related note, in season 1 we basically saw either Rosanny Zayas or Jacqueline Toboni’s breasts in every episode, whereas season 2 they always had bras or shirts or Jennifer-Beals-level coverage even during nude scenes. If it’s a result of the actors renegotiating their on-screen comfort, then great for them (and I only hope there wasn’t pressure in S1 that they then felt empowered to resist after the success of S1); but if it was a show-runner or director’s decision, I’m just curious. It did feel to me like we lost some of the raw, authentic, easy intimacy and spark that percolated in S1 (with exceptions: Lena, Felicity, etc.).

    In any case: thank you Analyssa, Drew, and Riese for being insightful, funny, committed compatriots in watching this show alongside the rest of us, through hell and the opioid crisis plot-line, to a throuple and back. I will miss tuning in every week, as I looked forward to Riese’s recaps and your podcast (I loved having all 3 of your voices in the mix this season) immensely. Thank you!

  7. Final thought, from one Sinley shipper to others: I too found it strange that they didn’t kiss goodbye when she dropped her off at rehab. When we had that long moment of pause, when it seemed like Finley might change her mind, I actually thought they would end that moment of struggle by having her go back to the car (for a fake-out refusal to go to rehab) and instead tenderly kiss or embrace Sophie before checking in.

  8. Is anyone else having trouble finding this episode of the pod? It’s not on my app, and I’m five pages deep into google and every podcast site either doesn’t have it or the link goes nowhere.

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