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When I first came out just a few years ago and started entering queer women’s spaces, I often found that I wasn’t greeted with the open arms that I expected. While some meetups and organizations and groups didn’t actively say that trans women like me weren’t welcome, they did other things, often microaggressions or acts of casual transmisogyny, that made it clear that they didn’t really care if I felt like I belonged or would want to come back. I’m sure I’m not alone in feeling that way.
Aside from being hurt and angry, this left me feeling very confused. I thought that queer women’s spaces were supposed to be welcoming for a woman like me. After all, I’m a woman, I’m a lesbian, I’m queer. These spaces were supposed to be the one place where I didn’t have to worry about everyone else judging me and saying that I didn’t belong.
As trans people have gained more prominence in culture and trans women, and especially trans women of color have started demanding that our voices are heard, things are getting better. But I still notice things, even in groups and spaces that claim to be completely “trans-friendly.” With all that in mind, I got together with Morgan, KaeLyn and Maddie (who are leading an A-Camp Workshop on this subject with me) to make this list of ways to make sure that queer women’s spaces continue to become even more welcoming and affirming to the trans women who so rightfully belong there.
1. Don’t Talk About Menstruation as if It’s the Ultimate Sign of Womanhood
Making bleeding into the essence of womanhood is a super easy way to make trans women feel like they don’t belong. For example, I hear this kind of thing all the time when people talk about witches, they make statements like, “all women are witches because all women bleed” or “we are witches because our bleeding connects us to the moon.” I’m a witch (and a woman) too. — Mey
Menstruating humans: you can still talk about menstruation, but don’t generalize or assume everyone bleeds once a month. Use I-statements! Even amongst people who do menstruate, it’s not like it’s a singular or uniform experience. By speaking from your personal experience, you help create space for other people to share their related personal experiences, whatever those may be. This creates richer conversations and opens more possibilities for everyone to learn. — Maddie (Yes! Thank you for adding this, Maddie! — Mey)
2. Make Sure You Center TWOC
Also, make sure that you’re centering all of this on TWOC, and usually more specifically, on Black trans women. So much of our history is because of them, and so much of our present oppression is aimed at them. When you’re having a Trans Day of Remembrance event, white trans people and trans men probably shouldn’t be your first choice for speakers. It’s Black and Latina trans women who are murdered, so if you continue to erase them, you’re not helping as much as you think you are. — Mey
3. Even though they’re sometimes cute and funny, think twice before using essentialist slogans like “Ovaries before Brovaries”
I like the sentiment, I’m always here for choosing women over men, but things like this or “uteruses before duderises” can make trans women feel left out. I love you, Leslie Knope, but you can do better. — Mey
I cringe every time someone associates “lesbian” or “queer woman” with “penis-hater” as a stand in for “doesn’t make sexy times with men.” Let’s not assume all women have vaginas and all queer women only have sex with people with vaginas. — KaeLyn
4. Don’t assume only people who are pansexual or queer date trans women
Seriously, I hate it when people say things like, “Pansexuality means attraction to men, women and trans people.” Trans women are women, so if you’re attracted to cis women and trans women, that doesn’t automatically make you something other than a lesbian. — Mey
5. If you say something is “LGBTQ” make sure it’s not just “LGBQ”
People are getting better with this, but I still see online articles talking about the “LGBT” community that don’t mention trans people once. A similar thing that’s equally annoying is when things are labelled “Gay and Lesbian” that include straight trans people, like when Netflix calls Boys Don’t Cry and Gun Hill Road “Gay and Lesbian” movies. — Mey
6. If you’re talking about queer history, talk about trans history
I can only really talk about the US here, because that’s all I really have a lot of knowledge about, but when you talk about the history of the movement, make sure you talk about how it was started by trans women of color. Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson, a Latina trans woman and Black trans woman were two of the first people to fight back, and Miss Major Griffin-Gracy is a living trans elder who was also a leader in the riots. — Mey
7. Do your research
Use Google! Before you decide to bother your one trans friend by asking her a million questions about what different terms mean, do your own research! I’ve encountered several people who tell me, in person, that they want to make their group or event trans-friendly, and they’re trying to, but they’re “afraid of saying something offensive” because they don’t know what all the best terms are. If you just google it, there are tons of articles talking about how to talk about and to trans people. — Mey
(Need someplace to start? Here are some Autostraddle articles you might find useful: Please Stop Saying That Trans Women Were “Born Boys”, Getting With Girls Like Us: A Radical Guide to Dating Trans* Women for Cis Women, Remembering Us When We’re Gone, Ignoring Us While We’re Here: Trans Women Deserve More, So You Can Fuck Us; What’s Next? Going Beyond Sex With Trans Women)
7. Be trans-inclusive all the time — don’t make it something you “turn on” once you know a trans person is in a space
If you are in a group of people who all identify as cis, don’t let it be a reason to pretend trans people don’t exist anywhere. You can still practice being trans-inclusive in your language and gently and productively addressing cissexism and cisnormativity. ALSO, cis people, if your family members are down with the Gay, but don’t really understand trans issues, teach them! I’ve found this to be a longer and harder concept for them to understand than my coming out as queer ever was, but it’s made all of us better allies and it’s also strengthened our relationships. — Maddie
Adding on to what Maddie says: when I came out to my folks/etc., my goal wasn’t to try and cover every topic about being trans under the sun. Just what they needed to know then. No conversation had with anyone about anything covers all that needs saying. Take your time. You can’t teach people to have conversations about things if you only speak to them as a one-time monologue. — Morgan
8. Use trans-inclusive language
You can do this in your event descriptions, promotional materials, etc. — Morgan
9. You can be trans-inclusive without outing people
I’ve had the experience of people showing my modeling pics to people I don’t know and outing me as trans. I’ve also been through a workplace training about trans issues and needed to remind people that you can take this education to your life/clients/etc. without being like, “Oh yes, we have a trans too!” Outing people without their consent is a safety issue. — Morgan
Yes! This reminds me of that scene in Transparent where Maura is going shopping with her daughters and they’re trying to use a public bathroom and a girl in there says something transmisogynistic to Maura, but then Sarah just makes it worse by loudly calling Maura her dad, letting everyone in there know that she’s trans. — Mey
Most especially, cis folks dating trans folks, don’t out your trans partner to gain queer or feminist credibility or trans ally points. Some trans folks are out 100% of the time and might feel comfortable with their partner talking about them as out. With your partner’s 100% explicit permission, it might be OK, but even then, think hard about whether it is important to do and why you are doing it. Don’t make your partner’s gender about you, ever. You can promote trans-inclusivity without outing your partner to gain credibility. – KaeLyn
10. When setting up at an event space, slap gender neutral bathroom signs on the male and female bathroom doors
But also, don’t only do this when you have an event with binary-identified trans people. When people tell me that they’ve changed the women’s bathroom into a gender neutral one because I or another trans woman was going to be there, I feel like it sends the message that trans women aren’t real women or don’t fully belong in women’s spaces. — Mey
If they already exist and are accessible, tell people where existing gender neutral and/or single stall restrooms are when your make bathroom announcement. Let everyone know, not just trans people you know are in the room. “Men’s restroom is over there. Women’s restroom is over there. GN and/or single stall restrooms are over there.” — KaeLyn
11. Don’t make things worse when you’re trying to make them better
If you see instances of transphobia, cissexism/centrism/normativity/etc., do not call it out in abusive or confrontational ways (which don’t do any good), do not create a judgment space, but use this as an opportunity for open and genuine discourse. — Morgan
This especially goes for cis people calling out other cis people. Don’t capitalize on instances of transphobia/misogyny cissexism/centrism/normativity as an opportunity to win social justice warrior points. You probably needed to learn whatever this person needs to learn at some point, so meet them where they’re at and help them learn what they need to know. Have a discussion. — Maddie
It is not up to trans people to educate cis people, but trans people are often expected to answer cis people’s very Google-able questions. Cis allies are in a position of systemic power and can use that cis privilege for good by educating other cis people (and especially explaining why it’s not cool to keep asking trans people invasive and offensive questions and maybe show them how Google works). — KaeLyn
I was doing the activism thing for awhile, inviting all the questions, answering all the questions. I was approaching burnout. Then someone told me something that I had never heard before, never knew was allowed: “Morgan, you have the right not to educate someone. You have the right to not fight the fight.” I got so fixated on making things better for others that I made it worse for me. Know your limits, and if you don’t, keep an eye out for them. — Morgan
12. Gender inclusiveness is not a one-off event and then it’s all worked out; it’s something you need to continue to plan new topics for as time goes on
See cuz the program obvi isn’t just for trans people to feel safer, it’s for you to interact with the world in a more knowledgeable way. And maybe help cis people come to terms with gender feelings they didn’t realize they had. — Morgan
13. All feminist concerns are transgender concerns, period
…and if your feminism doesn’t have space for transgender issues, ask yourself why and think about how you can make your feminism trans-inclusive. — Maddie
…and trans women’s experiences are women’s experiences, period, and are part of feminist experience and discourse. — KaeLyn
14. Don’t just wait and hope trans people will come to you
Reach out to trans people/organizations in your area to facilitate discussions and further the goals of both groups/organizations by facilitating dialogue and unity. Go to trans people rather than waiting for them to show up on your doorstep. — Morgan
Groups often lament that they “need more _____” at the table. Black people, nonblack POC, young people, trans people, directly affected people, etc. Well, great. You’ve identified the empty seats. But don’t expect trans people to come to your table that was built for and by cis people. You have to engage trans people respectfully and create a new trans-inclusive table together. — KaeLyn
15. Support creating space for trans-centered spaces and discussions in women’s space and then step back and let those spaces center on trans women
Taking up all the air in trans spaces with your cis voice is a really disruptive and disrespectful thing to do, even if you are invited to be there. Especially if you are invited to be there. Don’t make a trans space about your cis voice. Sit back and listen and appreciate that you were trusted to be present. If you are going to insert your voice into a trans conversation and want to do so respectfully, use it to amplify the voices of trans people. For example, if you are joining a #translivesmatter tweet-up, retweet trans people and tweet out trans leaders, authors, activists. Again, listen and step back and keep the conversation centered on trans people and trans voices. – KaeLyn
16. Remember that trans people and trans politics contain multitudes
One trans person can’t speak for all trans people, and there are different trans politics that can contradict each other. This is another reason why it’s important to look at trans and gender-inclusivity as an ongoing process rather than a one-time checklist: it’s part of a living and growing discourse about how to create a world where trans liberation and gender self-determination can exist, intersecting with and incorporating racial, economic and disability justice. — Morgan
We also came up with this list as a group at A-Camp. Some of them are already covered here on this list, but here they are:
- Don’t make assumptions based on presentation or appearance. Ask pronouns/names (not a preference). De-emphasize the importance of appearance.
- Don’t whisper behind backs
- Cis discomfort is not trans people’s issue
- Don’t assume it’s your business
- Speak up against microaggressions, especially in spaces where it’s all cis people. Own your mistakes, apologize and be open to criticism.
- Call out in productive, non-aggressive ways. We all have room to grow, but also there’s room for trans people to be angry and humor can be a good tool if used appropriately.
- It’s on cis people to meet other cis people where they are
- Speak up, not over
- Don’t share people’s legal names
- Encourage but don’t tokenize leadership of trans women in queer spaces. One trans woman on a board doesn’t equal inclusivity.
- Speak from your own experience and don’t assume a singular trans experience
- Bring resources to spaces (Frequently Argued Bullshit)
- Binary trans people and non-binary trans people have different needs. Using “cis and trans” to define different groups can be othering.
- Remember the difference between gender and sexual orientation.
- If you say LGBT do you mean all those letters? Make sure you say what you mean.
- Read a fucking book! Do your research. Do you know google?
- Don’t expect trans people to know everything
- Don’t go to trans exclusionary events
- Feminist and queer issues are trans issues.
- Understand intersex issues as connected but distinct
- Be specific about inclusion
- Trans Bodies/Trans Selves
- Trans tag on Autostraddle
- Whipping Girl and Excluded by Julia Serano
- Redefining Realness by Janet Mock
- Becoming a Visible Man by Jamison Green and Letters for My Brothers
Of course this list is incomplete; we’re just a few people with a few ideas, and we don’t cover every experience or type of person, so you can be sure we’ve missed some things. If you have other ideas, please add them in the comments.
I think another thing to add is to ask what pronouns does the trans woman and/or trans person use, as some use something besides she/her pronouns.
but on that note if you’re in a group and want to ask about pronouns please go ahead and ask /everyone/, don’t single out people who you think look gender nonconforming / trans
I went to college in a queer bubble and traditionally we asked everyone their names and pronouns during group introductions. You can’t assume that people who you think are cis-gendered women use she/her pronouns either. Plus it’s weird and uncomfortable to then be like- “hey, you specifically look not-cis. I need you specifically to tell me your pronouns.”
Simple way to ask from what Janet Mock and others have said is, I am sorry, but what pronouns do you use? For some trans people it will make their day, I know it makes mines when people ask me.
#15 is something I get cranky when telling other people exactly this point, ” Don’t make a trans space about your cis voice.” This can be applied to a lot spaces and for trans*women spaces, I make sure to listen and if I need to work something out, I have a nice conversation with google or a friend who is more knowledgeable than me who is willing to help. I make sure to bring that friend cookies (who am I kidding wine!) bc I know the work is taxing.
If your group does pronoun introductions, don’t say “any pronouns are fine” unless you really want people to use a wide variety of pronouns to refer to you. And don’t say “female pronouns” or “I’m a woman.” Just state the pronouns; it’s not a bg deal! (Pet peeve.)
#17: On a wider note, get away from institutionalized queer lookism and judgement (oh yeah, know KNOW it exists). A trans person (or anyone) should not have to look-dress-talk JUST LIKE YOU in order for them to be welcomed as an equal within a group. All too often, if a trans woman is young (and attractive) enough, knows how to talk queer enough, her hair looks “right” and presents herself as queer-styled, then she can deigned to be accepted. If you’re older, don’t know how to talk the talk, tat the tat or plaid the plaid, you’re an outsider.
Likewise, trans women in queer groups… just because you yourself might have been accepted doesn’t mean you get to perpetuate the marginalization of those who weren’t, either because you desperately want to fit in, know how to ‘do queer’ while other trans women don’t or prove what a real feminist you are… blah, blah. I’ve seen this way, way, waaay too often at queer events and it makes me disgusted.
Why is it cringe-worthy to associate “lesbian” to not having sex with men? Not all queer women are only attracted to and/or only have sex with women, but there are other types of queer sexual orientation besides lesbianism. Is it an issue of how many differently gender identified people (I made up my own grammar there, sorry) lesbians can have sex with while calling themselves lesbians?
Pardon me if I read something wrong because it is very late where I am and I have been cramming for finals, but I believe the issue was with taking “lesbian” to mean “penis-hating” or “someone who doesn’t have sex with men”. Cis lesbians can be in sexual relationships with pre/non-op trans women or other femme-identified DMAB individuals. Some lesbians may have had sex with cis men at some point in their lives, perhaps before accepting their queer identity. Being a lesbian simply means being a woman who loves other women.
I think you just misread the statement, she said its cringe-worth when “penis-hater” is used -interchangeably- with “doesn’t have sex with men” not at all that its bad for lesbian identified ladies to not want to have sex with dudes!!! Because if a lesbian has sexy-times with a transwoman, a penis may be involved, yeah, but no men are involved at all.
So as an event organizer in spaces I don’t own, I’ve run into some trouble trying to put up gender-neutral signs. Some places tell me that it’s illegal to create gender-neutral bathrooms; others tell me that we can only do it if we have exclusive access to the space, but not when other people are sharing the space. (To give context, one was a restaurant/bar in Australia where we were hosting an event, another was a women’s space in the Bay Area).
How do you negotiate issues like these when you’re overruled by either law or the dictates of the space owners?
So I was wondering about this as well, and I think I thought of a potential solution, though keep in mind this is a cis lady answer. I’m a big fan of gender neutral bathrooms when it comes to single-user or stalls. But the thing that makes me uncomfortable is bathrooms with urinals that aren’t really blocked off in their own stall or room. Maybe it’s because I am so used to using only women’s rooms, but there something about watching someone pee, and possibly catching glimpse of their genitals, that really freaks me out. My sister will go to the bathroom at our house when I’m already in there brushing my teeth or whatever, and I always turn away or leave the room because I really don’t like it. If an event re-labled all bathrooms as gender neutral, my concern would be that I would enter that one with urinals when, like I said, that would make me really uncomfortable. SO this is my long-winded way of providing a possible solution: label bathrooms based on what’s inside them. So you have a “three stalls, two sinks, tampon and pad machine” bathroom or a “single-user 1 toilet 1 sink” bathroom or a “multiple user, multiple small rooms each with toilet, shared sink space” or a “3 urinals, 1 stall” bathroom, etc. I think you get the idea. I have a really hard time imagining that would be illegal in any way, since it’s totally accurate information and people know exactly what they’re getting into. If someone annoying is not part of the event and does not like the idea of gender-neutral bathrooms, fine. You can use the bathroom where you’re in your own stall and the only time you have to be near anyone that you consider a different gender than your own is when washing hands. And given how many bathrooms there are at camps and even some restaurants where the bathrooms have only toilets and the sink is in a totally separate public area, there’s no way a shared sink space is illegal. Just an idea.
I went to a sports event with only one toilet (so it was gender neutral) and in there were cubicles and stalls. It shocked a few of us the first time we went in but got over it pretty quickly.
I think something to keep in mind is a) they’re just genitals – you wouldn’t stress about seeing someone’s hand and b) men who use urinals are probably used to people potentially seeing their bits. If they were worried about this, then provided that they know the toilet is gender neutral, they’d probably just use a stall.
Perhaps try and move the events? (I realise this is a high demand but allyship asks these things of us.) Doesn’t bode well for trans/GNC folk in attendance if a location doesn’t even allow facilities to be labelled gender neutrally for one-offs. And if we’re only making nominal efforts at inclusivity (such as changing toilet signage and not thinking about how the staff at an event location might harass, intimidate, and otherwise enact violence against certain individuals), then that’s not genuine inclusivity.
Also really suspicious about the claim of ‘illegality.’ Did they give you the grounds for that? You should’ve picked them up on it, because it sounds like bullshit.
All this aside, disabled facilities are often the compromise people offer (put a gender neutral sign up next to the main one or let people know that that’s an option for those who want gender neutral toilets).
The most states, workplace has to have access to non-coed bathrooms. If its a single stall bathroom, I don’t understand why it matters (or feel confident that it does) but it is a legal issue. Having gender neutral bathrooms is not against the law; having *only* gender neutral bathrooms is (in most places).
Very nice article, I needed some of these reminders too. Autostraddle and its material is always so inspiring, and always raising the bar. :)
Thank you, the four of you, for taking the time to put this together. I feel like #16 is so important (well, all the points are!).
Might another one be ‘don’t assume all groups divide into the gender binary (‘men and women’/’boys and girls’)’? I have witnessed so much erasure of non binary identities, even in nominally (binary) trans inclusive spaces.
Similarly, if somebody’s pronouns are ‘they,’ that does not mean that ‘they’ is definitely interchangeable with the pronouns they were assigned at birth. Respect non binary/agender trans identities!
Also thank you for this! A really useful and firm reminder.
(I know many non binary ppl don’t ID as [trans] women, but there are also those who do for various reasons. Regardless, lots of non binary ppl are part of queer women’s spaces and making space for them is also important.)
Very informative, thank you! I think #15 is especially pertinent. As an ally of any community I don’t belong to (trans, disabled, etc), I try to make sure that I’m respecting the agency of that group of people. Educating others and standing up against prejudice is good, but I do my best to make sure I’m not speaking for trans people or patronizing them when I do so. I do notice sometimes that allies of certain communities tend to be quick to take offense on behalf of a community, whether or not members of that community themselves have expressed whether something is problematic. (Yes, I’ve been guilty of this myself in the past). I think a better way for cis allies to educate other cis people is to link to articles in which trans people themselves discuss the topic at hand. Or, a gentle reminder that certain words or attitudes are not kind.
Edit: I meant #11, not #15
I think the statement “trans men probably shouldn’t be your first choice for speakers” is *hugely* problematic. Trans men are less discussed and more heavily erased than even trans women PoC from what I’ve seen personally and have seen online. I can’t even name a single trans man in the popular media, but can rattle off trans women easily, including WoC. Trans men experience a metric ton of erasure (especially ones that don’t opt for surgery). Most distressingly, they are often erased by lgbt and queer groups, some of which, like this article, literally *encourage* that erasure.
This wasn’t a blanket statement to banish trans men from being leaders or speakers. You’re omitting the crucial context from which this excerpt comes: Trans Day of Remembrance is a day committed to honour the lives of trans individuals who are murdered. Trans women are disproportionately affected by hate-crimes and systemic violence, so to have trans men speak on their behalf is an extension of male privilege.
Also, this article is about making queer WOMEN’s spaces safer for trans WOMEN. This is a website that is geared towards queer women; this article was not intended to enhance the visibility of trans men in queer spaces because all too often women’s spaces cater to trans men more easily than they do for trans women. Please, let’s not make this another argument about “trans women vs trans men” visibility. You’re derailing the conversation.
Firstly, dude, you’re a man in a thread about autonomous women’s spaces. Perhaps a bigger thing in making queer women’s spaces more trans women friendly, bigger than anything on this list, is not welcoming trans men on the basis that they’re “men-lite” because they’re willing to degender themselves (and trans women) if it gets them laid. That dynamic makes so many queer women’s spaces hostile for trans women internationally.
Secondly don’t confuse visibility with oppression: trans women’s visibility that wasn’t hate and mockery is something that’s only started to happen at all within, like, the last two years. You mightn’t get as much attention, but you get vastly, vastly more *positive* attention.
Thirdly, you’re coming on to a thread about trans women’s inclusion on a queer women’s site and going “what about the men?” Don’t be that guy.
cannot give Bec’s comment enough thumbs up.
“Perhaps a bigger thing in making queer women’s spaces more trans women friendly, bigger than anything on this list, is not welcoming trans men on the basis that they’re “men-lite” because they’re willing to degender themselves (and trans women) if it gets them laid. That dynamic makes so many queer women’s spaces hostile for trans women internationally.”
yessss. oh gosh I won’t even go into all the times I have seen this reflected in my local queer community. lesbian spaces where trans men feel much more welcome than trans women.
As a side note to the eloquent response that PaperOfFlowers wrote: this comment (by Cake) is such a good example of how representation politics can backfire. The minimal representation of trans people in the media, which has a surprisingly high (by most standards of representation and also considering systemic, intersectional oppressions) showing of women (particularly WoC), is not an indication of how trans people actually live and experience oppression/marginalisation (including those in the public view). The violences of oppression and marginalisation aren’t suddenly removed for trans women (partic WoC) because a few (normatively attractive, very feminine presenting) trans women of colour have a high profile. That is the main thrust of arguments against celebrating “the trans tipping point,” Caitlyn Jenner, etc.
oh crap, rly didn’t finish my final sentence. *Caitlyn Jenner’s Vanity Fair cover, etc.
I may not celebrate a wealthy republican being the new face of trans representation, but I celebrate her bravery and wish her the best.
I would like to share this, that comes from my personal experience, from my relationship with my brother.
Long before transitioning in 2013, he hated and fought, as a lawyer, against the fucking patriarchal and misogynist society in wich we live in, especially the judicial system in Argentina that allows so many levels of violence against women.
This didn’t change. He still defends women against violence. And he will do this until the day he dies.
Transitioning, a metoidioplasty or phalloplasty, does not implies a brain transplant and the elimination of values and principles. In my brother’s case, having a penis, does not mean that before he hated the patriarchy and now he wants to run a brothel or read playboy all day. This presumption seems to be the general idea when anybody makes a comment about trans men.
“They’re willing to degender themselves (and trans women) if it gets them laid”. This is a disgusting comment, because you don’t need to like/love trans men, but at least show a little tolerance and respect. You would never say that to a trans woman. You’re degrading and demeaning a person just to make a point.
And before you all start with the usual replies, just let me clarify that I’m a WOMAN and a LESBIAN.
No, but trans dudes are dudes. They probably shouldn’t be the ones leading things in women’s spaces. Women should be. As an AFAB nonbinary person, I also question my involvement in women’s spaces because y’know, I’m not a woman. I still participate in some women’s spaces (like here) because a lot of stuff here is very relevant to my life due to the configuration of my body, how I’m perceived by people at large, and how I’m treated by the legal & medical systems. It’s also relevant because “queer woman” isn’t an awful approximation of my identity, but it’s definitely also not accurate. So–I participate, but I try to listen a hell of a lot more than I speak.
Which, I get trans dudes wanting to be involved in women’s spaces, particularly if they transitioned later, after they had all this community formed and solidarity. I really get that. And I get wanting to be involved because it seems like women’s spaces are the only ones who are doing that stuff a lot of times. However–participating in women’s spaces, particularly when trans women are excluded or unwelcomed from those spaces is wrong. It’s SO WRONG. And personally, I think that as AFAB trans people, we are responsible for being the best fucking allies possible for trans women. And if we want to participate in women’s spaces, we better be damn sure that our trans sisters will be welcomed before us because they have more rights to those spaces than we do.
From what I have seen more womens spaces are accepting of non-binary afab people as sometimes that’s closes representation of their identity as you have said. Sadly I don’t see many space for non-binary/genderqueer/agender folks besides the internet so it’s hard to find spaces that meet our needs.
I’ve see this on tumblr and not sure how accurate it is. The p says something like at one conference for trans folks the majority was trans men. Yet, some of them complained that trans women out numbered them, similar to what cis men have voiced in the same situation.
I do agree that trans men shouldn’t lead women’s spaces, I’m not arguing that.
What I don’t like is the constant attack trans men receive here in the comments section. Like those “get a fuck out of here and go to a men’s place” messages.
I consider my brother an ally. And I do consider every man that honestly recognizes and aknowledges the society in wich we’re living, a misogynistic society that kills hundreds of women every year, as an ally.
But that’s not what’s happening. People aren’t just yelling at trans men whenever they speak. When trans men come to a women’s site and ask “but what about us?” THAT’S when they get told to go a men’s space.
Allies are great, but this article on a women’s site is about making spaces more inclusive of women. It’s not about making spaces inclusive of men, trans or cis.
Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Great article overall, important issues to bring up to be sure. I do take issue with items #1 and #3, I don’t like being told not to talk about my cis woman body only as an “I-statement” rather than as a shared experience, especially in a women’s space. It seems like if that request were reversed, i.e. trans women were asked not to talk about their shared embodied experiences because it might cause cis women to be uncomfortable, that would be quite offensive. I have been told through so many forms of media that it is not okay to talk about menstruation and/or any of my anatomy, but this is an especially surprising place to read that. I think/hope that cis and trans women should be supportive and tolerant of their shared and differing experiences.
The point is if you say that all women menstruate it is implying that anyone who doesn’t isn’t a woman. If you feel the need to not use I statements you could say it’s something the majority of cis women do.
Exactly, talking about menstruation, reproductive issues, women’s bodies=positive and altogether good. Using certain features of women’s bodies in a “have this or you’re not a woman way”=overly simplistic and even phobic.
Btw, I would like to extend this discussion to not using references to chromosomal makeups as a cutesy reference to all women. For instance, Slate sadly has the “Double XX Gabfest” as the name of a women-oriented podcast and I’ve seen it used in many club names and invitations. While, yes, most women have XX chromosomes, so do some men (both trans and not trans), there was many women on the Intersex spectrum who don’t have XX chromosomes and most trans women don’t have XX chromosomes. Enough with the chromosomes already… leave that to right wing trolls who just looove to include them in every transphobic tirade.
I sort of see your point about not having many places to be able to discuss our bodies. But Mey wasn’t saying we shouldn’t discuss those things at all. I went to Camp 3.0 and there was a workshop specifically about menstruation, cleverly titled Bloody Hell. There were plenty of references to pussy at the readings and other workshops. If I-statements aren’t your thing, what about using terms like “people who menstruate” or “pussy owners?” I kinda like that second one ;) We can also create a safe space for trans women to discuss their own bodies. I don’t know what would look/sound like exactly, but I’m all ears if trans ladies wanna make that happen.
I feel like such a nit pick right now, but not everyone that has a pussy menstruates. Some trans women have pussies, and I’ve met 20 something cis women who don’t bleed.
It’s definitely important to have conversations about menstruation and pregnancy. It’s disgusting that something that half the planet does every month is shamed so much. I think it’s important that we stop associating menstruation with womanhood. Most trans men will menstruate at some point in their lives and some even get pregnant.
Okay, I agree to a point. I feel ciswomen shouldn’t draw unnessecary attention for their menstruation because trans women want that. We feel that it’s a right of passage for women that we will never go through. So sure, ciswomen can talk about THEIR menstruation periods to avoid the pain of that whole. Transmen I feel are okay to talk about their current or past experiences with periods but again, if transmen start insulting or talking negatively about their period that they never wanted, transwomen might get upset because they want the reverse of that and transmen are able to get rid of their menstruation period through certain meds or surgery. Transwomen can never achieve that period. So the speaking about the period in specifics instead of generalities is a good way to avoid accidentally insulting someone who may already be having a hard time
Re #4: Also, pansexuals out there, if you are going to identify yourself as pansexual (and mazel tov if you are… I wish I possessed your openness and wide-spectrumed love) please don’t then turn around and say “I date women (secretly meaning cis women) and trans guys.” That’s not pansexual. It works for you (which is great), it’s honest, but it’s not pansexual because you’ve just made made trans women a “not even worth considering” option. How often have I seen this definition of pansexual repeated… far too often, usually by beaming fresh faces in queer environments.
Moreover, if you do specifically make a point of identifying as pansexual, (and, let’s face, in 2015 that remains a kind of political as well as personal statement) to not mention how trans women real-world fit into that equation makes me, sad to say, suspicious of your intentions. No one is suggesting you intimately connect with someone you don’t wish to, but please don’t try to get queer merit badges by mentioning the “p” word if you’re not also willing to be completely honest about your actions in the 3D world.
I identify as a vuvlasexual, because I only have sex with people with vulvas. This is my personal term that I made up. I think the reason that people say “pansexual” is because there is no widely accepted word that means that. I think available terminology may be a factor.
Though I can also tell you from my experience on OkCupid that there are women who say that they will be with anyone except cisgendered heterosexual men. These people may also use “pansexual” as their single word identifier.
I disagree, when I first heard pansexual, long before queer had made it’s reemergence, it was specifically used by people who felt bisexual wasn’t inclusive enough to the people they found attractive. It was meant to encompass trans, non-binary, and androgynous un-labeled people.
I will say that your vulvasexual gets to the point though. I am not just attracted to women. I am specifically attracted to women with vulvas and specific secondary sex characteristics. Could be a thing to by instead of lesbian. I don’t know.
I’m not arguing that people like myself are pansexual, I’m addressing their intentions. I don’t think they are all pretending to be pansexual. I think that people with sexual preferences that don’t have a specific name may not know what they *should* say, and pick “pan” because its closer to the truth than “bi” or “gay” is. If we only give people limited options in terms of identifiers, I don’t think its fair to automatically assume the worst of them when they try to work within those limitations.
What would you call those whose only restriction is cis/het men? Or everyone except cis men? My identifier doesn’t apply, nor does bisexual or gay.
Given the context of this article, what I’ve tried to say is that there have been a number of queer-ID’d people who identify themselves as pansexual even though they’ve never been open to being intimate with trans women at all. Maybe they don’t feel ‘bi’ or ‘lesbian’ works for them but the reality of it becomes that trans women are made into outsiders and for all intents and purposes dumped into the same category as cis men.
As to the “vulvasexual” part of it… in my experience hearing from trans women involved with cis women, that’s pretty much been code to “no trans women… no matter what they have downstairs.” That if cis queer women don’t want to be involved with trans women, the trans woman’s genitalia is almost more of an excuse to justify their preferences than a reason… vulva, penis or whatever—they usually just don’t want to go there. And that is in no way shape or form pansexual. Your mileage or preferences may vary.
I’ve seen that too on tumblr blogs. The blog name would be like girl searching for girl and say in the faq anyone but cis men can submit, which I find interesting.
Also, what the difference between cis hetro male and a cis bi male that they are the only ones excluded?
Cis bi men are also queer, so these women are looking for all queer people who are attracted to women. Cis straight men aren’t the only ones excluded–cis hetero women are as well–but they’re the only non queer group that would be interested, so they specifically get pointed out.
It’s ironic that it comes up here, because there’s a been a running joke on Tumblr for the last week or so about how creative cis people will be about coming up with language that really means “oh, I’m attracted to anyone but trans women!”
Also, when queer communities have tons of people who will openly date trans men but go “ew no” at trans women, you may as well hang a sign on the door saying “trans women not welcome here”.
I’ve unfortunately seen a lot of this in the queer community here. It’s really fucked.
Interesting discussion re: pansexuality. I’m trying to ponder whether it applies to myself. I’m attracted to women and make no distinction whether they’re cis or trans.. I’m not attracted to dudes (cis OR trans). Lesbian would be a perfect fit, EXCEPT for that fact that I’m also attracted to non-binary people all across the spectrum, and I worry about erasing their identities. So really, anyone who isn’t a dude. Not sure if that counts as pansexual, however, because I always thought pan meant attraction to ALL genders. So I just stick with queer.
I’m in the same position, (except add in that I might be non binary myself?) and tend to bounce between lesbian and queer. I like how lesbian has the weight of women specific history behind it, but I worry about it misgendering me and people I’m attracted to. Queer doesn’t do that, but it’s broader than I like, and since it can apply to all sorts of people whose gender and sexuality are nothing like mine, it doesn’t always feel right. I end up using queer, gay, lesbian, and dyke for specific circumstances: lesbian when I’m specifically talking about my sexuality, queer in casual conversation, gay when I’m surrounded by straight people, dyke when I’m also talking about gender/feeling angry or marginalized.
Basically, it’s hard to find one word to explain all of who you are, so you can use different labels at different times.
I would have to say if they are saying pan-sexual to mean trans men and cis women, they are being a bit transphobic and equating us to our downstairs. Saying that I won’t date a trans woman because I still somehow think you are your assigned gender; but then they’re also saying to the trans men community I will date you because you assigned gendered doesn’t make you different from a cis dude. At least that’s how I always read it as.
I think they are saying trans men’s assigned gender makes them different from cis men. It’s another way of being derogatory. They’re simply refusing to acknowledge that person’s gender identity. The right words may come out of their mouth, but I don’t the people, usually cis women, who date trans men but not cis men are actually thinking the talk.
My preferences are only based on below the waist anatomy. I like secondary female sex characteristics, I like male secondary sex characteristics (specifically muscular guys). There are cis guys that are beautiful and would totally make out with but I just have this thing about that type of genitalia, and most cis guys don’t like it if you don’t have sex with them. Same goes for store-bought penis substitutes. I don’t personally think that gender identity is important for me in terms of compatibility. There are traditionally masculine personality traits that I like, traditionally female personality traits that I dislike and I would never assume that I would be better off with any woman than I would be with all men. Humor, intelligence, determination, grit, sympathy, these things are important to me. I don’t believe that only women have these traits.
Here is what is actually harder for me to understand: if your preferences are not anatomical, why only women? Like doesn’t that require some underlying assumptions about how women should act and think v. how men should act and think? If you were dating someone who then came out as trans, would you be like, “no, I dated you because I thought you were a woman, so my feelings don’t count now?”
I completely agree. I’m a transwoman and too often have I said “I’m pansexual,” and then get a response like “Me too, but I only date ciswomen or cismen” or other combinations that exclude one or another gender or sex. My true standing is I’m pansexual with a phobia of males. This doesn’t mean that I’m not attracted to males. It means that those that identify as male will have a harder time wooing me. Pansexuality is less about being open minded (though that is, typically, a prerequisite), and more about finding a person attractive regardless of sex or gender. Because, in the end, we’re all people.
As a binary trans woman, I think the pronoun thing in women’s spaces is fraught.
Firstly, if you’re doing a pronoun go-around, cis people need to stop doing that thing where they go “oh, anything is fine”, “whatever”, etc., because there’s no better way to make trans women feel marginalised at that moment for the fact that it’s something they’ve had to fight like hell for. People think it’s a demonstration that they’re all cool, when really they’re just demonstrating privilege in a really awkward way. This happens all the time and it’s so grating.
And secondly, I really need to stress: if you’re asking people about pronouns, do it to everyone. If you only ask me because you know I’m trans, a) I am going to be offended, and b) I am instantly going to be suss on you.
I think when people are vague about their pronouns like that, it is probably best to collectively call them anything but their apparent ASAB. If they are cis, it might eventually grate on them and make them realize how obnoxious it is, and if they are NB and just not assertive enough to ask for specific pronouns (I’ve been there), it will make their day.
So, something that I’ve taken notice is that doctors will refuse certain necessities for trans women at least. Maybe trans men too, but I’m not in that boat, and I won’t speak for a community that I’m not apart of, ya know? Anyway, their reasons for denying certain necessities could be as malicious as they don’t like what we’re going through and they are ignoring their hippocratic oath or as innocent as “I know nothing about this and I won’t help due to lack of knowledge on the subject,” Well, if you don’t know about it, they educate yourself. The internet is a wonderful place for knowledge and I’m positive that you can contact other doctors better then we can so that you can help us. In my case, I have been homeless too many times and because I’m a good girl, I won’t take meds that I wasn’t prescribed unless it’s over the counter. My anti-androgens and estrogen were as high a dose as I could get thanks to a wonderful doctor in Pullman, Washington. But due to losing my home too many times, I had no one to prescribe them and now I’m in a conservative city trying to get my hormones back but I’m being turned down for those two reasons and the closest city that would have open minded doctors/therapists is an hour and a half away. So doctors, make the effort to contact other doctors so that you can better help your trans patients.
Have you tried planned parenthood? If they have proof that you are already on meds, they should be able to help you, and they have a sliding scale for costs.
Do you mind giving me the name of the doctor, and do you know if they’re open to treating trans men as well? I have a friend in Pullman who’s trying to figure out where to get hormones, and it would be great if there was a trans-friendly practitioner I could refer him to.
I need help: My partner is in the process of coming out as non-binary and is questioning their gender expression and identity quite a bit. I want to be wholly supportive and never make their journey about me, but it is there any space for my emotions or my journey of being by their side through this process? In everything I have read about being a supportive partner of a trans* individual, I hear lots of advice about never my thoughts or emotions onto my partner’s coming out journey. I completely agree that I should never make my partner feel like I have any say in their gender expression or identity, but I have lots of feels too! How can I (or should I) express my emotions without making their process “about me”?
I think that it’s totally fair to have a lot of feelings about your partner coming out as nonbinary and going through a period of change and questioning. (I had a lot of feelings about my best friend/brother-type person coming out as trans around the same time I was also dealing with coming out. I still have some of those feelings because of how much better his parents have been than mine and also how, after 8ish months on T, everyone sees his identity as legitimate but everyone definitely doesn’t see mine that way. I don’t know if he has feelings about me being trans too because that’s pretty much the only topic we haven’t discussed. So what I’m saying is that yeah, I get having feelings.)
I think that there’s a space to deal with those feelings, for sure. But I also talk about my feelings a lot because that’s the best (/only) way I know how to deal with them. Just, that place shouldn’t be with your partner. Personally, I just blogged on Tumblr more than usual about my feelings. I also (after clearing with the bro about outing him) talked to some of my close friends who had been good sounding boards for my feelings in the past and also, while a bit ignorant of trans issues, really supportive of my own coming out who only peripherally knew my bro because they were removed from the situation. If you have people like that in your life, maybe talk to them a bit?
I’m not in this situation- but I do think that having open and honest communication between partners is necessary, regardless of the situation. It’s also important to balance openness with being extremely considerate of your partner, and even more so when they’re going through an especially tumultuous time. But if one of you starts to feel like you can’t talk to the other about something important, that may breed more serious problems.
Here are a couple ideas:
1. Ask your partner how they want to be supported. Reiterate your love and support, and maybe have some specifics to offer of “would you like this y/n”. It sounds like you’ve been reading a lot about this, so I’m sure you have good ideas. This also might be a good way to open up a conversation about your feelings, or it might become clear that you need to hold off on telling them how you feel until they’re more secure about how they feel (I personally don’t like to talk about anything intensely personal until I have fully decided what I want to say, and sometimes that takes weeks or months, so they may be the same!)
2. Write down the thoughts and feelings you might want to discuss with them. Rework and rewrite this list until you can organize your feelings a little bit more, and decide if there are any needs that you must address immediately, whether it is talking to them, to someone else, or having a really long shower to think it through more. This will give you a chance to root out the feelings that might be too selfish, insulting, hurtful, or ignorant to bring up. It may also help you find answers to questions you have. If you need to talk to someone, make sure it’s okay with your partner re: discussing their personal stuff, like the other commenter mentions. If they would prefer it be kept a secret from friends and family for whatever reason, consider going to a counselor or a (online?) support group to talk things out.
Remember! You’re allowed to have the feelings you have, even if they’re embarrassing or not in line with what your brain wants. You should try to work through them, or you may start to feel guilty or like a bad partner. For example: I know that my girlfriend was cheated on by several exes, and I know it would hurt her a lot for me to do the same, but that she trusts me. When I’m in a period of depression or anxiety, I start having dreams about cheating on or betraying her in some way. I wake up wracked with guilt. I realize these are two totally unrelated situations, but the result is the same: You may have unwelcome thoughts, feelings, or dreams, especially if you’re stressed out. In my experience, it’s better to accept that it happened, get meta and address your feelings about your feelings (eg my guilt over a bad dream), and try to reason out why it happened so that if it happens again, you can get past it more easily. You don’t necessarily need to discuss these with your partner, especially if it could be really hurtful, but you do need to discuss them with yourself until you can put them at rest. One really helpful thing that I’ve learned is that anger is a bullshit emotion. It’s never pure, it’s always a reaction to some other emotion: fear, hurt, etc. This is occasionally the case with other emotions, and it might help you to try and dissect your feelings to see what might be hiding underneath.
I don’t know if this is helpful! I hope you hear from more people about this that have relevant personal experience. Most of my knowledge comes from straight romance novels (and some queer ones). In pretty much every romance novel I’ve ever read, the main plot come from communication problems like secrets/lies between the partners or an unwillingness to be open and honest about their feelings, and is only solved by a murder/kidnapping plot that threatens to tear them apart. Only then can they admit their love for each other. HOPE THAT HELPS.
This advice seems amazing for so many relationship interactions. I’m saving this for the next time I get stressed out about interacting with a partner (anytime I have a partner!).
I don’t know if you’re talking about me, but if so, thanks!
I write my girlfriend a letter like, at least once a month. Sometimes I show them to her, sometimes I talk to her about some of the things in it, sometimes I keep it to myself. It’s been a really good way to bring up my feelings when I’m too scared to get the words out of my mouth. It was actually her idea to start my letter writing!
I wrote a you need help about this!
“This is another reason why it’s important to look at trans and gender-inclusivity as an ongoing process rather than a one-time checklist: it’s part of a living and growing discourse about how to create a world where trans liberation and gender self-determination can exist, intersecting with and incorporating racial, economic and disability justice.”
This whole article was great, but this one really stood out to me!! So important that discourse about gender is always growing and changing and that constantly checking in to make sure all queer women feel welcomed in queer women’s spaces!!
Thanks yall for all of this!
#5 and #7 are contradictory. #5 implies that we should only cite something that includes trans individuals as LGBT, and #7 suggests we should always be inclusive.
In essence, #5 says that a group of cis lesbians should not advertise themselves as LGBT because there are no transgender members, but #7 promotes using LGBT so that trans people know that they are welcome.
You can’t have it both ways.
They’re not contradictory – #5 says don’t use LGBT if you don’t mean it.#7 says don’t be LGBT friendly (as opposed to LGB friendly) just for the trans person in the room. If you care about being trans inclusive, you will be trans inclusive all the time (#7), but if you dont care about being trans inclusive, don’t pretend to be or just give lip service to trans inclusivity by saying things like “LGBT” (#5).
I think #2 needs more elaboration.
When a trans woman of color is present and wants to speak openly, that is great, but when they are not there or don’t want to speak it can still be important to elaborate on violence, discrimination and disfranchisement.
Many well meaning people list the tragic and horrifying things that can happen to young trans women of color, but don’t discuss how or why…or how in many cases the increased visibility of trans folks has made life more difficult for young trans women of color.
There is a huge amount of overlap between the effects of poverty, youth, racist gender-normative body standards, racist stereotyping of gendered behavior and more traditional racism related oppression. Statements like…
“When you’re having a Trans Day of Remembrance event, white trans people and trans men probably shouldn’t be your first choice for speakers. It’s Black and Latina trans women who are murdered, so if you continue to erase them, you’re not helping as much as you think you are.”
are well intentioned…but oversimplify matters by ignoring class, age or how different things are than just a few years ago. As someone who transitioned back in the 90s, I am often the only trans woman in a group who has known murdered trans folk or nearly been killed myself. And I am white. And many of those girls and women whose funerals I attended or who I mourned were white as well.
I know this is a level of historical context that may feel unnecessary, but I think it is important to understand that the violence young trans women of color face today is a continuation of violence experienced by almost all young trans women in the past. If we don’t examine why white trans girls can now often realistically expect safety and why this is not the case for black and native trans women…then we are lamenting the problem, but not addressing it.
Um, I might have missed it, but I don’t think I saw anything including including group introductions and pronouns. I think it can really single out trans people if they’re (visibly trans people) the only ones asked for pronouns. If there are any group introductions/name tags it’s good to include pronouns by default. It makes the space more comfortable and can open up a good, non-personal place for discussion of trans issues with cis people who might not be familiar with them.
This comment might be a bit late, sorry. It’s just something really simple and small that can be really important.
Ouch. Okay, how about finding a less dehumanizing way of referring to people. Yes, I know there are women who don’t menstruate and people who aren’t women who menstruate but would you allow people to call you ‘opposite sex humans’? Probably not, it is an erasure of your identity and just a rude way of referring to people. Maybe think about how your efforts at inclusion can be harmful.
Trans women have every right to join in woman’s spaces but it’s just not logical or feasible to forcibly try and include them in literally everything. They don’t need to be centered in every discussion, the world does not revolve around trans people. Trans women are perfectly within their rights and capabilities to form their own spaces to talk about their specific issues without taking over every women’s space. Women are within their rights to have female specific spaces too. This shouldn’t be upsetting. I don’t know where we got this idea that including everyone was somehow good. What good comes of it?
Across the board inclusion is often shown to be detrimental in reality – remember no child left behind? This also comes to mind:
Extreme efforts at inclusion undermine clarity, directness, obscures/hinders goals and cause difficulties for marginal groups as well as majority groups. It tries to level us all out by taking away our individuality. Effort should be made to make separate spaces that directly address trans needs, not erasing female needs. You think that you are expanding the definition of woman to be inclusive but in reality you are trying to shove all women in a one-size-fits-all box.
You try to take away the thing many women identify with, their bodies, and replace it with all inclusiveness based on nothing which ultimately excludes everyone because then we can identify with literally nothing but YOUR ideas and not our own identities. Your insistence on extreme inclusion and covering up reality to fit YOUR mold is Orwellian in nature.
I don’t identify with woman as some internal feeling the way you do, I’ve never had that. I literally cannot understand your concept of womanhood in the same way you can’t understand mine. I still have the right to call myself a woman based on my own definitions. I identify as woman as my body is female and I’ve lived my whole life this way. You want to erase my identity, my understanding of myself because it is inconvenient for you. To me gender is a concept, ‘woman’ is nothing more than a label, my body is real. I’m fine with respecting your views but I won’t change my identity to fit yours either. Call yourself a woman if you want but don’t try and tell other women how to identify as women.
This isn’t elementary school where every child needs to feel special and included. We should be adults now and we should understand that we don’t get to be the center of the universe. The world is huge and we are all vastly different – we all deserve equal opportunity to seek out others who are similar to us in whatever way we see fit and we have a right to make groups based on that. You can’t force yourself into every group just because you feel excluded. Do you need access to a women’s menopause group because you are a woman? No you don’t and neither do I because I’m not going through menopause. Not every space is for you.
However, there ARE spaces out there for you, spaces that you deserve to have just as there should be spaces for women with female bodies. Trying to include trans people in topics that don’t concern them is confusing for woman who have no concept of trans realities. They don’t need to be educated about trans realities in order to have a discussion about THEIR menstruation. Just like you don’t need to include female people in your discussion of trans women. Separate identities and issues.
Also, this insistence on extreme inclusion contributes to the erasure of women’s health. Learn about how 80% of medical studies are done on male bodies and the implications this has for female people. Please learn how prescription drugs effect male and female bodies differently and how testing done exclusively on males is harmful to female people.
“To give another, more tangible example, one advanced artificial heart was designed to fit 86% of men’s chest cavities, but only 20% of women’s. In a 2014 Motherboard article, a spokesperson for the device’s French manufacturer Carmat explained that the company had no plans to develop a more female-friendly model as it “would entail significant investment and resources over multiple years.”
If these things don’t anger you then you have no place demanding that female people include you in every discussion.
13. All feminist concerns are transgender concerns, period
I think it would be disingenuous of you to say that you are concerned about women’s rights, you’re concerned about trans rights. You can stop pretending like you’re some kind of model example of a feminist, you’re a trans activist. From what I gather, you’re not concerned about the rights of females to talk about their specific issues, only inclusion into their spaces, silencing their right to speak about issues that affect them and shaming them for identifying with their bodies.
It’s dehumanizing to call someone human? Ooook.
The idea of trans women “taking over” womens’ spaces is absurd. Trans women are women. Until you learn that, there’s just no point in further discussion.
hi! I”m the author of this piece, a trans woman, and you say “I identify as woman as my body is female and I’ve lived my whole life this way.” That’s great! that’s one of the reasons I identify as a woman too! I’m female, my body is female and being a trans woman doesn’t change that.
I think your main issue is that you’re drawing artificial lines between women and females. Trans women aren’t male and trans men aren’t female. Sorry for your confusion. I’m just trying to make sure that women’s spaces are safe and welcoming for all women, you know?
S hit the nail on the on the head with some very thoughful and strong arguments. I appreciate you for taking the time to share them.
Is it really necessary, in this very helpful article, to add “Read a f****** book!” “Learn to use Google!” How do you think I found this article? And is the hostility the thing we’re trying to minimize here?