To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 309: When a Fire Starts to Burn

A strong breeze has blown into Los Angeles this week and with it, the return of Bette and Tina! Coincidentally, it also brought the return of our enjoyment of this television program. This episode was delightful! It’s nearly the end of the season so many chickens must come home to roost!

Angie’s moms are back to get her out of bed and performing at her creative writing class reading and discover the relationship that has her sulking unshowered in bed. Shane and Tess are fighting over the second bar, but in a new and more final way. Finley is helping Carrie recover from her (obnoxious, to us) heart attack. And of course, Alice’s movie meltdown has gotten her cancelled again, with one of our season-long prayers answered as a result!! (I never know if I’m spoiling an episode in this post, so I WON’T.)

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+ Drew’s lesbian movie index goes up today! Check it out!
+ If you care, here’s more on James Corden beefing with the Balthazar guy
+ Riese’s recap for 309

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Group: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: Wow. We did it great.

Riese: Did we?

Drew: The episode is better. We’re thriving.

Riese: I got distracted.

Analyssa: I thought it was kind of impressive that you got distracted during that.

Riese: Really? But I was still trying.

Analyssa: While you did it, I was like, “Wow, that was ballsy. I wouldn’t have done that.”

Drew: Yeah. Well, here we are with another episode of The L Word: Generation Q. It was validating to see that our opinions last week were not … We were not alone. Seems like all of you…

Riese: A lot of people really liked it.

Drew: Did they? I didn’t—

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, I guess I didn’t—

Riese: On the recap, a lot of people really liked it, and I was surprised because this was when I really lost it, was last week.

Analyssa: I read some of the comments on your recaps. There’s always way too many for me to keep up with, but also on our podcast episode post all the comments were saying that we were right, so you could hang out in there sometimes. Yeah.

Drew: That’s all I pay attention to.

Analyssa: But I was surprised to see that in your recap.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, no one said I was wrong. For their personal enjoyment, they liked it, which surprised me.

Drew: Sure. And I love that.

Riese: But also I think it might just be like if you’re a big fan of Finley, obviously you’d be a big fan of that episode.

Drew: This is episode 309, Quiet Before the Storm, and it is written by Melody Derloshon, who we’ve talked about many times. And it’s directed by Kate Moennig, who I think we know.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: We know Kate.

Riese: We’ve heard of Kate. Yeah. This is her first directing job.

Analyssa: That’s fun. Cool.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I love when a cast member gets to direct an episode.

Riese: And I think Leisha Hailey is directing the finale,

Analyssa: Oh, my God. That’s so exciting.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Fun.

Analyssa: I love that.

Drew: I would love post-Gen Q if Leisha Haley directed movies. I can see her filling like a Clea DuVall kind of gap.

Analyssa: My reference point was going to be like, oh, kind of like Carrie Brownstein did music, and then now is directing. The same kind of thing with Leisha Haley.

Drew: Yeah. I was like, why do Carrie Brownstein and Leisha Haley have a connection? And I realized that it’s actually just me in my own little world because I wrote a pilot with a character based on Carrie Brownstein, and was like, “Leisha Haley would be perfect for this.”

Analyssa: That’s why they’re connected. Through your pilot.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Well, I think that Kate did a great job.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree.

Drew: This was a solid episode.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: This episode was a relief to me.

Drew: I think I only shouted at the TV in frustration three or four times.

Analyssa: This felt like a normal amount of being like urgh with a plotline.

Riese: Yeah. It felt like the original series where there’s stuff where I’m like ugh but in general, I’m like, this follows the rules of an episode of television.

Analyssa: Everything we’ve agreed upon entering this relationship is intact.

Riese: Yes, it is being fulfilled. Yeah.

Drew: Also, a lot of the stuff that annoyed me, not all of it, but there were certain things that annoyed me but felt true to the characters. Right? Where I was like, “This sucks.” But also, “Tina would fucking do this.”

Analyssa: Right. We’ve talked about that in some episodes, where it’s the difference between being annoyed with the script versus just being annoyed with the characters that you’re watching. It’s so much more pleasant to be annoyed with the characters that you’re watching, and not remember that there’s a script behind them.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Should we get into it?

Riese: Yeah. The beginning of the episode did in fact… Was the most upsetting part of the episode for me. I just, “What the fuck?”

Drew: Okay. One thing I want to say before we get into that is that the previously on—

Analyssa: I was going to bring this up too.

Drew: It included the part where Alice in the theater goes, “He dies at the end.” And since a reminder, they went to go see the 1960 Little Shop of Horrors I was like, anyone seeing that would know. I was like, “Are they including this because someone who uses he/him pronouns is going to die in this episode?” I was like, “Who could it be? They’re not going to kill Micah. Who could they kill? Who could they kill?” That is not why that was shown in the previously on.

Analyssa: I was just going to get mad about the previously on because it had so many scenes that I enjoyed, and then the things that were in this episode had nothing to do with the thing I enjoyed in that scene, i.e. Kehlani, Joey Lauren Adams. It’s all the setup that makes sense, but it got my little hopes up just a little bit, that some guest stars would be back, or that it would be a really Sophie centric episode, which it kind of was, but I was like, “I’ve been tricked.”

Riese: Speaking of trickery.

Drew: Yeah. The opening is very annoying. It is a serious medical drama. And then it’s like, “Oh, it’s actually Grey’s Anatomy and—”

Riese: Carrie and Misty are watching it?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s not Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Oh. Well, yeah. But they say it is.

Riese: But they say it is.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah. I have to get that out because it bothered me both times it was brought up. It’s not Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Sure, I believe you.

Analyssa: Okay, great.

Riese: Yeah. The hallway was really empty for Grey’s Anatomy.

Analyssa: That’s not a shot from Grey’s Anatomy, number one. Number two, they’re talking… Well, it doesn’t matter. I won’t get into this, but if any other people who watched Grey’s Anatomy watch this episode and were like, “This is inconsistent. The things that they’re talking about.” Find me.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I have thoughts.

Drew: I think as someone who watched the first few seasons of Grey’s Anatomy when they aired, and then moved on with my life, I don’t have strong feelings. I was like, “Obviously they’re not going to get the rights to Grey’s Anatomy, so I understand.” but I understand why you are — as a Grey’s Anatomy fan, are like, “This is wrong.”

Riese: Yeah. I just don’t understand why they did this. Why did they end with Finley doing the chest compressions, and being in a panic? That’s supposed to arouse emotions within us that something terrible is happening. But then we saw right away, in the next dawn, that Carrie was alive, and then we opened with Carrie being more than okay.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t love it. And I saw someone comment that Rosie O’Donnell’s talked a lot about having a heart attack, and heart health, and things like that. And it is one of those things where it’s this excuse that’s used—

Riese: Yeah. It doesn’t really make sense.

Drew: —for being like, Jamie really wanted to play a cis character where you’re like, “Okay, but one, maybe this is why there shouldn’t be only one trans actor or only one fat actor.” These things. But then also, I guarantee there are actors who have requested things for their characters, and that hasn’t been listened to.

Riese: Kate Moennig requested that she talk about Jenny, and they were like, “Nope.”

Drew: It still is a choice that’s made. And it’s not legend and carrying Gen Q Rosie O’Donnell’s responsibility — carrying wasn’t a pun, but I realize it was — responsibility to think about the nuances of queer representation, and fat representation, and these things. There’s a writer’s room for that. There are producers for that. I get it, but that’s not a good enough explanation for me.

Riese: No, I don’t think so. I mean, Rosie’s done a lot of things in her life that aren’t part of Carrie’s character. I mean, heart attacks happen on TV all the time, but I think the way it was set up— I mean, Gigi’s car crash, to a certain extent, where it’s this cliffhanger type thing where we’re supposed to feel stressed about it, but then we’re not. It’s just like, I don’t get it. It’s like an artificial—

Drew: Right. It’s both cheap narratively, and it also just really sucks. Because Rosie O’Donnell should not be the fattest actor on the show three seasons in, first of all. And then the way that the episode continues, as we’ve said, Rosie O’Donnell is always a pleasure to watch, and I love Carrie and Misty together, and Carrie and Finley’s chosen family relationship is so lovely.
But it just really fucking sucks, the way that this episode, and I guess we’ll keep coming back to this, but it’s just all about how Carrie needs to diet and exercise. The way Finley is acting is like a judge on The Biggest Loser from 2006 or whatever.

Riese: Right. But they don’t say anything about her size, or her weight. I think they felt like it was okay because of that. It’s not focused on her, which is something. At least no one was like, “You need to lose weight.” Or something. It was focused on her health or whatever. There’s that.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which is also accurate. She doesn’t need to lose weight! I think putting that burden on our only fat character is still really irritating. People of all sizes have heart attacks.

Drew: Yeah. Far more fun is that Angie in a post breakup haze, is reading The Price of Salt, and watching Four-Faced Liar, which is—

Riese: Oh, that’s what she was watching.

Drew: Marja-Lewis Ryan’s movie that she wrote and starred in, that’s not available to stream. The day this podcast comes out, my updated lesbian movie list will be out, and it’s not available anywhere. Which I’m surprised that… I don’t know.

Analyssa: Angie did-

Drew: Angie downloaded it, torrented Four-Faced Liar, which there are far better movies that you could torrent, Angie.

Analyssa: Well, they did Marja’s play in Angie’s High School. They have a direct line coming in. They have a connection to the playwright.

Riese: Yeah. Maybe she got, maybe Marja, to send her the file.

Drew: I’m sure.

Riese: Those are the perks.

Analyssa: Marja loved the high school production. That got done so much that she-

Riese: Yeah, that she stayed in touch with Angie ever since.

Drew: That’s really beautiful.

Riese: But most importantly, she’s wearing her Sisterhood Is Powerful t-shirt.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And if we were wondering, “When are we going to see that again?” Luckily, we’re seeing it in a moment of sadness, and depression, and despair.

Drew: Sometimes being powerful means-

Riese: Being sad?

Drew: Taking time to be sad, yeah.

Riese: Yeah, taking time for yourself. And you know what a danger is to dating your teacher? Not wanting to go to class.

Analyssa: Angie is in a post breakup slump. Her roommate is trying to rally her out of bed, and out of the room, and then a much stronger-

Riese: Surprise!

Analyssa: A much stronger force arrives.

It’s Bette and Tina!

Drew: Yeah. And Bette immediately starts cleaning up, which is lovely and funny. And also what I would do if I was in that room. It was funny. I was very happy to see them.

Riese: Yeah. I was like, “Oh, good!”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: I was like, “Am I betraying myself here?” But they were cute, and we haven’t really seen them get to be mothers to Angie in a way where that’s not about them. It was interesting to actually finally see them focused on her, but they also obviously are concerned about her wellbeing because she seems unwell. And she is unwell, because she had sex with a terrible person.

Drew: We’ve all been there.

Riese: Anyway, they’re going to go to her reading tonight.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And so am I.

Analyssa: And so are we all.

Riese: All so we all are. Yes. Everyone loves a student reading. They’re always very well attended. Big event.

Analyssa: They’re also always in these-

Riese: Always on the website.

Analyssa: Huge auditoriums.

Riese: Yeah, huge auditorium. Yeah, they were really expecting a big crowd for that.

Drew: Speaking of rough days, Shane wakes up naked, which could be good, except that Tess is already getting dressed, and getting ready to leave. It feels very much like they are hooking up and still living together. But I mean, maybe they’re not hooking up. Are they just living together?

Riese: I don’t know if they were hooking up or not. I thought maybe that was just how Shane slept.

Drew: Does Shane just sleep naked?

Analyssa: I thought they were hooking up.

Drew: I thought they were hooking up.

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: I feel like if you’re not hooking up you’re not going to share a bed and be naked.

Analyssa: Also they have a big house.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They could…

Riese: Could sleep somewhere else?

Analyssa: Sleep somewhere else, yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I think they’re hooking up, but clearly, there is still tension, and Shane is like, “What if we talk to someone?”

Riese: Shane suggests couples therapy.

Drew: Yeah, and Tess says no, which my big complaint about this episode with them, is it turned it into a thing where Tess becomes more at fault in the split, when that’s not really fair given … I don’t know. It just is this thing where it’s like, “Well, Tess is drinking again, and being erratic, and doing this and this.” And it’s like, “Shane needs to grow.” Shane has fucked up, and sucks, and the show doesn’t quite seem to know who it wants us to be. It doesn’t feel complicated. It just feels like now it’s really… I don’t know.

Riese: Well, I felt that it was definitely Tess’s fault.

Drew: Well, yeah. No, I know. But that’s what I’m saying is that-

Riese: If that’s what the show was feeding me, I ate that.

Drew: Right.

Riese: I ate every bite.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And also, Tess turning down therapy, which is something that-

Drew: Yeah, makes no sense.

Riese: If Shane asked me to go to couple’s therapy, I’d be like, “We don’t even know each other, but if this is what it takes to get you into a therapist’s office, absolutely, let’s do it.”

Analyssa: But this had to follow the time honored tradition of The L Word: Gen Q‘s insistence on one character introducing an idea. Another character saying, “Okay, I’m on board for this idea.” And the first character reacting as though that’s the craziest thing anyone has ever said in their life. They love doing that. Okay.

Riese: Anyway, Tess has to go meet with the tile guy at the second bar, which I honestly hoped had just fallen into the sea. I wanted it to just go away. I didn’t want to ever hear about the second bar again.

Drew: That may happen. Meanwhile, Alice is showing Sophie pictures of her cat, Piddles Jr., PJ, which I was like, “Okay, PJ’s a very cute name.”

Analyssa: PJ’s really sweet.

Riese: Later, she calls him little PP. We can go in so many directions with this.

Drew: And they’re getting ready for the season finale of The Alice Show ending with Rachel Maddow.

Riese: I know. And for a moment, for a brief shimmering moment, I was like, “Oh, my God.”

Analyssa: I put all caps in my notes. I was so excited. And then I realized like, “Oh, okay.”

Riese: I was like, “People are going to flip out!”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, even though the video of Alice in the movie theater went viral several episodes ago, it is now going viral again in a new way, because James Cordon tweeted it.

Analyssa: They’ve brought back Alice’s random beef with James Cordon.

Riese: Right. Of all the things to remember to bring back around, it was her beef with James Cordon, who, I think probably since this episode was filmed, edited, and produced and wrapped, has had his own entitlement virality.

Analyssa: But that’s really funny, actually. They didn’t mean for this, but it layers in a thing where the idea in my head is that James Cordon tweeted this so that people will stop paying attention to the fact that he’s still beefing with the head chef at Balthazar. He was like, “Okay, I finally have an idea. Something that will get them off of me.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And then it causes a whole Alice is getting canceled storyline that culminates with someone bringing up Darryl Brewer, which we all remember who Darryl Brewer is, because our lives are very tied into The L Word.

Analyssa: I simply didn’t.

Drew: Oh, you didn’t? Oh, I love that for you.

Analyssa: They said that name, and I said, “Who is that?”

Drew: I’m so happy for you.

Analyssa: And then when she started the next thing and was like, “So, there was this guy.” I was like, “Okay. It’s all coming back to me now.” But just the name? No, that did nothing for me.

Riese: But when Sophie said the name, and Alice was like… I was like…

Drew: When this first started, I went, “Oh, God. They’re doing a canceled storyline.” And I just was like, “There’s no way this is going to be done well.” Even Tàr, which I think is a very good movie in so many ways, anything to do with cancel culture just falls so flat there. And I did not trust these writers. I thought it worked.

Riese: I thought it worked, too.

Drew: I thought it was really good. We’ll get into some more details later, but I was like, “They’ve handled this well.”

Riese: And also, when I saw the episode description, it was like, “Alice has to pay for something she did in her past.” Or whatever. And I saw the preview with Sophie being like, “I don’t know how to fix this.” Gretchen was like, “What do you think it is?” And I was like, “I think it’s going to be Daryl Brewer.” Because that was such a big…

Analyssa: Your mind amazes me.

Riese: But one could argue, it could have more important things in it than this.

Drew: Then we go to the trail with Carrie and Misty and Finley.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: It was very nice out.

Analyssa: Because the whole plot is Carrie, per doctor’s orders, has to be able to walk a quarter mile on an incline. There’s a weird subplot here where Finley’s like, “And if you do it, you can bone Misty.” Which I was like, “Weird thing to say to your mom, but okay.”

Riese: And Misty’s part of that, too. Misty’s also like, “Then we can-”

Analyssa: Yeah, but Misty and Carrie get in on it, and then I feel okay about it. It’s just when Finley is like, “The two of you could fuck.”

Drew: Well, and then Carrie talks to Misty, and is like, “I-”

Riese: I’m not ready, obviously.

Drew: “I’m not ready. I want to take it slow.” And it’s very sweet. And Misty is like, “Well, I’m really good at it. Whenever you’re ready.” And that was a great response.

Analyssa: They’re fun.

Drew: I loved it. I loved it. I loved that part.

Riese: It was cute. I also just loved them being outdoors. It was very beautiful to see our great city rolling before us.

Analyssa: Which is currently under so much rain.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Yeah. Well…

Riese: Barry is on the phone, right?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: With Alice. And they’re very upset, and they want her to apologize, and Sophie is trying so hard to manage the situation appropriately, and I think doing a really good job.

Analyssa: I really liked this for Sophie in this episode, watching her-

Riese: Just do her shit, yeah.

Analyssa: Just do good at her job.

Drew: I love … I mean, not to be a Capricorn, but it’s so nice to get stories in the workplace that aren’t people boning in the workplace. It’s possible to have storylines with these characters that isn’t someone cheating, or someone having sex they shouldn’t have. Not that those things aren’t fun, but there are other things you can do.

Riese: Right. And he wants her to apologize, and Sophie’s like, “Absolutely.” She feels remorse, she will do it. And Alice is like, “No, I don’t.”

Drew: And then we go to everybody’s new favorite couple, or at least mine, Dani and Dre. Dani’s lying in Dre’s lap while Dre writes a song, and it’s very cute. And then they start making out. And I went, “What’s going to interrupt it? What’s going to interrupt it?” And very quickly, Dre says, “I love you.” And then is like, “I mean, I love what you’re doing.” And there is a moment, and then Sophie calls, and Dani’s like, “I have to get this!” And it’s like, “Oh, thanks for saving me.”

Analyssa: Double interruption.

Drew: Yeah, double interruption.

Riese: Why won’t anyone have sex on this show?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: What is happening?

Analyssa: Why is this show forcing me to be a pervert, and be like, “Everybody should be having sex more”?

Riese: Yeah. What is going on?

Analyssa: It’s so weird. It’s very bizarre.

Riese: I’m just confused. And I would like to speak to the head of Paramount Networks, personally.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a bummer. I would be very curious to know what led to that.

Riese: Intimacy coordinators aren’t that expensive, are they?

Drew: No, I don’t think so. Can you imagine if that’s what it is? Then we go to Angie who’s talking to Bella, and nervous that her parents will find out about Hendrix. And then-

Riese: You win!

Drew: I get to win.

Analyssa: You win!

Drew: Bella tells Angie that she’s the best person she knows, and that she’s a total catch, and Bella’s face is saying that I was right, and there is something here between these two. And I don’t know when it’s going to come about, but it sure is happening.

Riese: Yeah. Bella has feelings.

Drew: Bella has big, big feelings.

Riese: And Angie is oblivious.

Drew: Oblivious.

Analyssa: No idea.

Riese: And I really thought, “Oh, good.” I thought it was going to happen this episode, and I was excited.

Drew: It really sucks where this ends, because I really thought it was going to end with getting rid of Hendrix. Hendricks is gone out of my life, but nope. They said, “Yeah, we only have one episode left. But you know what we want to do? We want to keep Hendrix around.” More on that later.

Riese: Oh, and then Bella, they call Bella to go sit with Bette and Tina.

Analyssa: Where they all proceed to talk through every single other person’s reading. No one else is getting to do their reading in peace.

Riese: No. This is before Shane comes, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Speaking of things that people should apologize for, I tried. Sophie brings Dani in as a fixer, and it’s like Dani’s written hundreds of public apologies, which is like, “Sure has.”

Riese: She got somebody to say the right thing about their own child dying of an opioid overdose, even though his company manufactured the opioids. Yeah. You can do that. You can apologize for outing a basketball player.

Drew: I love Dani season three, and I sometimes forget how bad things were in season one.

Riese: Well, now she’s using her powers for good.

Drew: I guess so.

Riese: If Alice would only let her use her powers for good.

Drew: I love change. But Alice, yeah, is like, “I want to double down.” Kimmel would double down. And Sophie’s like, “Kimmel’s not a queer woman.” And then Alice is like, “You don’t understand how hard things were back then, and how hard it was being gay back then.” Basically, if you didn’t watch the original series or didn’t remember it in detail, there’s a sort of recap of what happened with Darryl Brewer.

Riese: She went to this secret Hollywood party, which by the way, she signed an NDA to go into, with her girlfriend who was in the Army and under investigation, under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and saw this guy who was a famous athlete. She didn’t know anything about sports. And filmed him with her flip phone that she was supposed to surrender at the door. And then the next day, he said something homophobic about this other guy who had come out in sports, and it was honestly the most absurd. It was on our favorite news channel, Now News or whatever.

And it was an inane quote. It was something like, “I don’t want those fucking gays in my locker room. And I let that be known.” Or whatever the fuck it was that he said. And then Alice made a video where she showed the video she took, again, at a party where she signed an NDA. And also, I re-watched this piece, and there’s people in the background of the video, too. It was supposed to be a secret Hollywood … And she is there with a girl who, if her girlfriend had been in the video, would’ve been in huge trouble.

And she did this. She decided to post the video outing him because he had said something homophobic. And the thing is that, at the time, no one thought it was a good idea either. She’s talking about back then, and out of curiosity, I was like, “Let me see what I wrote about it in my recap that I wrote in 2008.” And at that time, I thought it was a terrible idea. This was not something that anyone thought was a good idea.

Drew: Totally. What I liked about it was the idea of—

I mean, they’re doing an Ellen thing.

Drew: Sure. But I liked it also because it felt like something that Alice, given her… I mean, the one thing that I wish had happened is that they’d addressed race at all. Because obviously, one, it’s more interesting and more nuanced, and also, it is what would be on Twitter. Specifically, she didn’t just out someone, she outed a black man.

Riese: A black man? Yeah.

Drew: And I wish that that was dealt with at all.

Riese: Right. Especially as she’s this rich white woman lecturing two women of color about how they should understand her oppression in 2008.

Drew: Yeah. It just felt very true to … How old’s Alice supposed to be?

Riese: 45, or something, probably.

Drew: Yeah, a cis white 45 year old lesbian, where it’s like, yeah, things were a lot worse for her at that time. And there’s probably a level of righteousness that she feels, even if she doesn’t get it, and I did appreciate that. But I wish, one, that they’d addressed race, and two, when Alice is like, “Him saying fag on TV.” And then Dani being like, “We actually don’t say fag anymore.” Was very annoying, and felt like such … There was actually sort of a realism to this scene in a way that I found really interesting, and that felt like not even a good joke, but just something in there. And was like, “Queer people constantly say dyke and fag.” And it’s not…

Riese: Right.

Drew: It would’ve been funnier if she’d said, “Don’t say that word in your apology.” Whatever. But, but anyways…

Riese: But realistically, in this conversation, they would be talking about race.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And they would’ve been like, “Even just, this isn’t a good look for you to be doubling down on this.” And at the time she got a lot of important feedback that she disregarded, like that this man had a family. He wasn’t a politician enforcing laws. You’re not just outing this man, you’re also causing a great amount of pain to his wife and his children, and you can’t just disregard that because you’re upset that he said something homophobic.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Although, also sort of at a through-line of the original storyline is that Alice didn’t really seem to realize how famous he was.

Drew: Right.

Riese: But she gets on the news about it. Her and Tasha break up over it, but they ended up getting back together a few episodes later. Then she gets on The Talk, and she semi-outs Nikki Stevens. And this is a pattern. And then she’s barred from the set of Lez Girls. This is not the first time she’s faced consequences for this, and she still is doubling down. I just think that’s beautiful. Also, her outfit was beautiful.

Analyssa: She says to them at the end that she will apologize, which is so not what’s going to happen, but she agrees to do it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well, speaking of people who deserve consequences, Hendrix has started his reading, and he is talking to Angie through his other student’s readings.

Drew: Bold.

Analyssa: Just another crime on his list.

Drew: And he calls Angie immature. And it’s like, “No, she’s not immature. She is the exact mature of an 18 year old, sir.”

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Right. I was so happy they were finally showing this guy to be the creep asshole that he is. And Angie, her responses to him were incredible. Just a choice. I was like, “Finally.” Now I know, “Okay, good. The show wants us to know that this man sucks.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: And then Bella also meets Shane and is like, “Wow, you’re hot.” Which was cute.

Drew: Yeah. And also Bella is like, “I have candy in my bag.” It’s like Bette is an old lady now. How cute!”

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, also earlier when they were leaving the dorm room, Bella was like, “Wow, iconic.”

Analyssa: Yeah. Just obsessed with all the-

Riese: Right. Now she’s probably feeling even gayer than she was before, and now she really wants into the family.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, the idea of being queer slash bisexual, slash a lesbian, and seeing other queer women around you who are older, and being like, “Suddenly, I’m obsessed with them.” Suddenly, I need to be around them as much as I can. Imagine if those women were Bette Porter, Tina Kenard, and Shane.

Riese: Yeah. We start to have feelings for a girl, and then those three walk into your life, and sit down next to you, and offer you candy. Wow. You’re like, “This is the life for me.”

Analyssa: I’m actually ready to marry Angie, thank you so much.

Riese: Yeah, wow.

Analyssa: I never need anyone ever again.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Bette and Shane then have a nice talk about Tess, because Bette is now very-

Riese: Enlightened.

Drew: Enlightened.

Analyssa: Evolved.

Riese: Yeah. They’ve made it to couples therapy, again.

Drew: Yes, which Shane makes a joke about, is they have good couples therapists in Toronto. And Tina says, “Yeah, universal healthcare.” I would like to say, because I have inside knowledge, that Canada’s universal healthcare does not cover eyes, teeth, or mental health.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: Yeah. Canada has problems, too. That’s something that I learned this summer.

Riese: Eyes, teeth, or mental health.

Drew: I mean, I would like to say that my insurance I pay for also doesn’t cover eyes, teeth, or mental health. The US is not good, but yeah.

Riese: Oh, interesting. But also, would Bette be covered under universal healthcare, just if she’s there illegally? She doesn’t even have a passport.

Drew: No, she wouldn’t be. And Tina would be-

Analyssa: Doesn’t have a visa to work there.

Drew: And Tina would be covered by her… I mean, it was a joke. It’s fine. I’m just letting you know a little knowledge because I’m dating a Canadian.

Riese: Well, that’s important. All of our Canadian listeners will appreciate that reality check.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Tina would not have Canadian insurance. She’d have her-

Riese: Employer?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Murdoch Mysteries.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Paw Patrol.

Drew: But just little fun facts there.

Analyssa: The end of that is that Shane is kind of like, “I don’t feel like Tess and I are growing in the same direction.” Or something sort of vague, but indicating that she’s kind of over it. And then Shane sees the professor, and that becomes a thing later.

Drew: Yeah. This episode did explain why … I mean, it doesn’t explain it because it’s not … But in the sense of being like, “Why aren’t they addressing this?” They wanted to address it when Bette and Tina were around.

Riese: Right. But the way Angie said her lines should have been different I think, in the last episode. Because it would’ve been easy when Shane had asked her, “Where did you guys meet?” She’d be like, “Oh, at the gallery.” And instead of saying he wants to get back to the end of the semester, because that would be a clue, she would’ve been like, “Later, when we’re a little bit older.” Or something.

Analyssa: Or, “When we’ve been in college longer.” Or something. Yeah.

Riese: Well, yeah. Yeah. She would not mention this semester. She certainly would not bring Shane over to the car where the staff parking pass is hanging. All of those decisions.

Drew: I think they also could have had it be a thing where Bella initially had said, “That’s a little whatever.” And Angie was like, “No, I know. But it’s not like that.” It could have been more of a thread throughout this entire season where there was some acknowledgement from the show, and from the people in Angie’s life, and then Angie was making the choice. Because that’s more, I mean, I don’t know personally what it would be like to be an 18 year old girl in 2022 having sex with your male professor, but I would imagine that there would be a little bit more awareness, and a little bit more, I don’t know.

Riese: But, yeah. I think that’s perfectly fine if Angie was hiding it, but we should have seen that she was hiding it. And we didn’t see that.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. Then we go to, Dani is running her statement by Sophie, and Sophie’s like, “Yeah. Just put it more in Alice’s voice.” And Alice is oblivious, just riding around on the little bike, getting ready for the show. And then Rachel Maddow dropped out, and that Alice gets very upset, and is like, “All the queers turned on me.”

Riese: And also, Alice is in this Evel Knievel jumpsuit with… It’s one of those things where I want Alice to be better than this, because I love her. But also, this tracks with the Alice that we’ve always known, the part of her that we don’t want to see, or that I don’t want to see, because I prefer to just love her.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s also very funny because the hashtag is like, “Alice so entitled.” And this whole little insert. I was like, if this video went viral.

Riese: Right. And then she’s like, “Cancel the show.” Which is like, “You are not the only person employed by this.” The entitlement continues.

Drew: But Sophie’s like, “I’m going to produce this show.”

Riese: Yeah! And I was like, “Yes!”

Analyssa: I’m going to produce the shit out of this show.

Riese: Yeah. I was so happy. And also, her and Dani working together is cute. We return to the reading.

Drew: Yeah, where Angie’s reading some 18 year old poetry.

Riese: Yeah. I chose to sort of-

Analyssa: I didn’t really-

Riese: I didn’t want to know.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: It’s one thing when it’s Hendrix, and he’s getting published, and is an adult person. But I’m like, “This feels about, what? College freshman poetry.” I mean, no. Because your fucking poetry you wrote in high school is good. But I hate you. That’s not normal people.

Analyssa: You know when you have a kid who’s in the dance recital, and they’re not the best dancer? And so, you kind of just sit there being like, “Yeah.” That’s sort of how I listened to Angie’s writing. I was just like, “Oh, my kid’s up there doing something.”

Riese: Yeah. Well, I thought I was better. No, I didn’t. I wasn’t listening. But then it’s this really funny moment where Shane is like, “That’s her boyfriend.” And they’re like, “No, that’s her professor.” And then they all are like, “Bella?”

Analyssa: When the three of them looked at Bella, I was like, “Oh, no. She’s seeing her world crumble before her eyes.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: To Bella’s credit, she doesn’t do … She just-

Riese: She just goes … They’re like, “Is that her boyfriend, her ex, or professor?”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I didn’t say it in the last scene, but I do just want a little bit of commotion for Jennifer Beals’ big glasses.

Riese: Oh, yeah. I did love this.

Drew: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Riese: I did love those.

Analyssa: Amazing choice.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Incredible. Yeah. That’s thriving.

Riese: Yeah.


Drew: And then Tina shouts at Hendrix and makes a scene, which this is one of those times where I’m like, “Sure, Tina would do this. I’m not mad at the writers.” But also, Tina? To be a little less Tina. Tina was so Tina this episode.

Analyssa: This was a big Tina episode.

Drew: This was Tina at peak Tina in so many different ways, which we’ll get to some of the later ones. But she was so Tina.

Riese: I felt like this was absurd. She would never do this, but I’ll accept it in the world of The L Word, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. I mean-

Analyssa: Right. You would never do this.

Drew: It depends how much you hate-

Analyssa: Someone would never do this.

Riese: Right. I would say those things to him, but after the show, face to face.

Drew: Yeah. Sure.

Riese: You don’t want to embarrass your daughter.

Drew: No, but Tina is Tina.

Riese: I’m glad that Tina’s back so that we can all remind ourselves how Drew feels about Tina.

Drew: It was so funny, because I used to not be as harsh on Tina as a lot of other people. I’m certainly not number one Tina hater. Other people hate Tina more than me, for sure. But this still felt Tina-y. Tina, whose favorite movie of all time is Catch 22, directed by Mike Nichols. Something I think about-

Riese: Every day?

Drew: Not every day, but definitely some days.

Riese: Yeah. Would you say at least weekly?

Drew: If I was doing banter and stuff, I’d be like, “Yeah, definitely.” But I think it’s probably monthly, which is still a lot.

Riese: That is a lot, yeah. That is a lot.

Analyssa: For a fact, that is from 2008.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Part of Sophie’s plan, Margaret Cho is hosting. She does not come back for the episode. But we-

Riese: No. Also, they allegedly are doing all of this in 45 minutes.

Drew: Which is-

Riese: And that’s fine.

Drew: Yeah. I love it. I love it. But Sophie’s like, “We have this gap in the schedule.” And Dani’s like, “Dre.”

Analyssa: “What about Dre?” Sure.

Drew: And then they’re like, “Yeah. That’s exactly what-”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Sophie’s like, “Yeah. That’s what I’ve always wanted to do, bring talent into it.” And I was like, “Yes, let’s do it!”

Riese: Yes! I felt so excited for her, because I was like, “That’s how I feel about my work.” And that’s always the dream, is that you get this big huge platform and you can bring all of your friends, who you know are really talented, but no one cares because they’re gay, onto your show.

Drew: I will say that maybe Rachel Maddow wasn’t willing to do this, but the move should have been, Rachel Maddow does a 60 minute talk with Alice, and they really get-

Riese: Yes. Yeah, Rachel Maddow interviews Alice.

Drew: Yeah. I was really hoping for that. I didn’t remember if Rachel Maddow was-

Riese: Yeah. And then Alice can’t be like, “You don’t know how it was back then.” Because Rachel would be like, “Yeah, I really do.”

Analyssa: “No, I was there.”

Riese: “I was there. While you were on talk, I was on the streets with NPR.”

Drew: We didn’t go to an annoying scene of Finley being like, “Come on, come on, come on.” And getting carried up this mountain. But I have to imagine, if you had a heart attack a week ago, going past your capacity is not a good thing to do. It’s not a healthy thing to do.

Riese: I don’t know. I’ve never known anyone who lived through a heart attack.

Analyssa: Well, great point.

Riese: I mean, I do. I’m sure I do.

Analyssa: My thing is that she only has to do a quarter of a mile, and then later they say they made her do a half a mile. It’s so rude.

Drew: It’s also just, if the whole thing is like, “It’s about health.” It’s like, “This is not healthy. This is not healthy.”

Riese: But look at the view

Analyssa: But look at the view.

Drew: The view is nice.

Analyssa: And Carrie-

Riese: Take some time to enjoy the view. That’s what-

Analyssa: Smell the roses?

Riese: Yeah. But I mean, that’s what they used to say on The View.

Drew: Also who doesn’t bring real fucking water?

Riese: Oh, yeah. Who doesn’t bring real … I like when she was like, “I like water that’s clear, like everyone else.” Finley sticking that green powder into her … That’s dirty.

Drew: That’s awful.

Riese: That’s awful. Unforgivable.

Drew: I did enjoy when Finley says to Carrie, “I love you. Not in a gay way, even though we’re both gay.” I really loved that.

Riese: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was really funny. And she’s like, “I know what you mean.”

Analyssa: And then Misty being like, “Carrie, I’m gay for you.” That whole exchange was really funny. I would-

Riese: Do you think Kate might be a really good director?

Drew: I think. Maybe.

Analyssa: I think Kate might be a really good director. It really felt like it was, yeah, like zinging between people a lot.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Just one sidebar, I would be furious if the girl who can’t cook chicken breasts was telling me about my health and what I need eat. The audacity.

Riese: But also, I do want to say, another crime against humanity that occurred with this storyline, is that in the next dawn, they made it seem like Carrie and Finley are having a genuine fight. And they weren’t. It was resolved very quickly, as usual, because that’s their relationship, and that’s wonderful. But it seems to be resolved.

Drew: Okay. But then we have to go to Tina being Tina, and being like, “He belongs in jail!” Which another storyline would’ve loved to talk about race, but no. Tina has-

Riese: Also Tina feeling, “I’m going to get a condo right next to your dorm!” I’m like, “Oh, my God.” And Shane’s like, “Why didn’t you tell me?” And I’m like, “Yeah, Shane. Good question.” And she’s like, “You guys don’t have to know everything about me!”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, because Shane and Bette and Tina are like, “You were taken advantage of.” And Angie’s like, “No, I wasn’t.” And then calls them all hypocrites. Which points were made there.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: But sometimes it’s a, “Do as I say, not as I do.” Situation.

Riese: Right. Or, “Learn from my mistakes.” Situation.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which I guess required acknowledging those mistakes. Apparently no one’s ready to do.

Analyssa: But Bette’s evolved now. Maybe she is willing to do that.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, Bette’s definitely handling it the best. I mean, obviously, Tina just shouldn’t have yelled at him in front of everybody, which is obvious.

Riese: Right. That’s awful.

Drew: And it’s just set up for failure to talk to Angie about this, at this point. But then Angie runs off, and then Bella runs after her, and Angie’s like, “They totally misjudged the situation.” And Bella’s like, “No they didn’t, because he did take advantage of you. And also, I’m in love with you.” She doesn’t say that. She doesn’t say that, but that’s in her eyes. You can really feel it.

Analyssa: That is where I hope this conversation was going. I can feel that they’re building towards it, but I was like, “Let’s just skip to that part. Let’s cut to the good stuff.”

Riese: Yeah. But I appreciate it, because now we see Angie really believes that she’s the one in control here, because she made the moves. And it’s like, “No.”

Analyssa: It doesn’t really matter.

Riese: Yeah. She was like, “He has all the power.” And Angie was like, “That’s not true.” And it’s like, “Yes, it is. Look at where you were this morning. You weren’t even going to go to class. You were going to fail this-” Which, oh, by the way, you’re not going to fail this class. This man is going to give you an A if he knows what’s good for him, or he is going to leave in the three weeks before the end of the semester.

Analyssa: It was really big of Bette to never once say language to Angie, because there were a lot of F-bombs thrown around in this scene. That was a really big sign of growth.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah.

Drew: But Angie runs off.

Riese: Anyway, Angie doesn’t want to go to a nice dinner anymore.

Drew: No. She’s like, “I don’t want to seem like a kid.” When you’re 18, I do feel like one of the main things is you don’t want to be seen as a kid. So I did. I get it.

Analyssa: Yeah. And Tina and Bette’s, Tina especially, reaction are, “My kid has always been good.” Basically, and followed the rules, and this is such a wild departure from that, that I’m overreacting. That all made sense to me. And even Angie being bad at lying, I was just thinking about this. She’s never really had to lie to them a ton. I guess when she was hanging out with-

Riese: Well about smoking weed.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Her bad friend?

Analyssa: When she was hanging out with her bad friend, Jordi. But-

Drew: Who she never had sex with.

Analyssa: Right, despite being high, and also bad. Some there, a little bit, but not really. It was basically like, “Yep, I’ve been hanging out with her.” And they kind of resolved it. I feel like a lot of this is just first rebellion, which I get, as a college storyline. I just wish it didn’t involve this. What if it was some frat dude? There’s a whole bunch of other ways that her moms would be horrified by her choices while she’s growing.

Drew: They even could’ve stuck with the storyline, and not spent so much time on it. The way that some of the Bella scenes were, there could’ve been more of that, where, “This is happening.” Angie is not participating in college life as much because of this thing that’s happening. But we get to see college life. We get to see the queer people who she might be hanging out with. But-

Riese: You see her leaving the queer club early. Or we see Bella being like, “We’re having this cast party tonight. Do you want to come? You stage-handed stuff in high school.” And her being like, “Oh, I can’t.”

Drew: Bella could have revealed feelings earlier, and Angie chooses instead to go. Even if-

Analyssa: Or even said something about it being weird that she’s spending so much time with her professor, or this guy. She kind of mentions it offhandedly early, and that’s really it. And that’s before she knows that it’s Angie’s professor, right? She’s like, “I never see you, because you’re with your boy.” And that’s like, once she finds out and she clearly has an issue with it, that could have come up more.

Drew: 100%. We then go to Alice, who can’t find Piddles Jr., and at one point says, “When am I going to go back to podcasts? Because kill me.” And that did bring quite a chuckle to me.

Analyssa: Alice is unaware that podcasting is actually kind of a lucrative business these days.

Riese: Right. Not for us.

Analyssa: Not for us, specifically. But other people. Actually, a lot of talk show greats are retiring into podcasting.

Riese: Yeah. If I could just do a podcast every week, and that would be my job, wow. That would be truly living the dream. But she can’t find the cad ,and she realizes it’s because she opened the window, because the litter box smelled, because she was leaving the litter box by her bed.

Drew: Not cleaning it? And not cleaning it?

Analyssa: And not cleaning it often enough.

Riese: I mean, litter boxes always smell, in my opinion.

Analyssa: Yeah. In her bedroom is a weird place for that. She’s got a big enough house. It could be somewhere much more convenient.

Riese: Yeah. She could give the cat its own room.

Drew: Though I will say, I had this idea that if you had a cat, your house would always smell like cat, based on the people I grew up with. Since I’ve been around the gays, and met cats in queer households-

Riese: It’s not true.

Analyssa: It’s not true.

Drew: I’ve been in plenty of households where it’s just tended to, and the house does not smell bad at all.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s possible.

Drew: It is possible. I’ve never had a cat on my own, but-

Analyssa: Also let’s just all be really serious for a second, and say that Alice has a cleaning lady.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Why? Okay.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Let’s just all be honest with ourselves.

Drew: Yeah. No, Alice has never cleaned, or hasn’t cleaned her own place in two decades. Since the original L Word.

Analyssa: Alice does not change her own duvet cover. I’ll say it right now.

Drew: No. No, she doesn’t.

Riese: No. No, she doesn’t. And then we go to bar number two where Tess is continuing to pound the vodka, vodka by vodka.

Analyssa: That damn travel mug.

Riese: Yeah, in her little travel mug. But at least this time she fucking does some breath spray before Shane walks in. At least we’re acknowledging the reality of life and science, and all of those things. But Shane’s like, “I haven’t been honest with you. I don’t want a second bar.” Yeah, we know. If Tess didn’t pick up on that, oh, my God. And then Shane shares a vision.

Drew: It’s a great idea. A great idea.

Riese: A really good idea.

Analyssa: This is a really good idea. You know what it’s a better idea than? A second bar around the corner from the bar that you already own.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I laughed so hard at Shane taking a really deep breath, being like, “I haven’t been honest with you.” I was like, “Is she going to reveal that she cheated in another way?” And-

Riese: I know. That’s what I was ready for.

Analyssa: And we didn’t know? That would be amazing. And then she was like, “I’ve never thought we needed a second bar.” Seriously.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’s actually the reveal that the reason she fucked Keilani was because she was a hairstylist, and she just misses hair, and she wants to open a salon.

Analyssa: A transference of desire.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I wanted to hear that she had been cheating this whole time. Because I was like, “That would be scandalous.” But then it was also really nice, because we’ve never really seen Shane assert her desires, or her dreams, or her wants, literally ever. For all of her, “I’m this independent-” Girls just kind of drag her around into their lives.

Also the whole mythos of Shane and stuff. She’s always in a relationship, and usually the other person is deciding what that’s going to look like, or what Shane’s going to do. Even her hair gigs, she kind of falls into them. Alice hooks her up with it. It was the Lez Girls set, or something. It was cool to see her be like, “This is something that I’m passionate about, that I enjoy doing.” Which I don’t even know if she’s said before, besides that she’s obviously good at it. And what a great idea to have a hair salon owned by a queer icon next to a lesbian bar.

Drew: Incredible.

Analyssa: Amazing.

Riese: Amazing. Perfect.

Drew: It’s so weird to have a scene where I loved, not half of the scene, but literally the way that Shane was written was great. The way Tess was written was baffling. But I was like, “Yes, this is such a moment of growth.” And I mean, there were things in this episode that were nuanced, and real, and interesting in a way that we really haven’t seen all season. But then Tess is like, “This is my dream! A second bar! I love bars more than anything!” And also-

Riese: How is that your dream, as a sober person, to have a second bar?

Analyssa: Love bars more than anything.

Riese: I just love bars!

Drew: And she’s like, “You’re so selfish.” And I’m like, “What?”

Riese: She’s like, “No one gets to be happy unless you’re happy.” And I’m like, “You haven’t cared about Shane’s happiness this whole season.”

Analyssa: Also we’ve just never seen that.

Riese: Yeah. That’s never really been true about Shane.

Analyssa: I understand if you’re like, “You’re very selfish. You think you can fuck anyone who you want to.” Okay. I’d be with you on that journey. You’re only-

Riese: Yeah. Or if you make reckless decisions, and don’t communicate about your emotions, and you go on these little benders like a child, that’s all true. But Shane doesn’t think anyone else deserves to be happy if Shane’s not happy? Hell no. That’s never been true.

Analyssa: I also don’t think Shane is-

Riese: Happy.

Analyssa: Happy very often.

Drew: It’s also just extending something that, I don’t know where … If they’re going towards a breakup, it just so easily could have started here in the sense of, instead of Tess reacting with anger, could have reacted with sadness, and could have revealed that she’s drinking again. Or could have just been … Some acknowledgement that this is growth for Shane.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I’m so baffled by Tess as a character, and it feels like maybe the writers are just blaming it all on her relapse, which is boring. And, yeah. I don’t know.

Riese: But I mean, the whole thing about the second bar. She’s been selfish about it from the start, and kind of manipulative about it from the start. And that was before she relapsed, so I don’t really get … Then they gave her the relapse. They killed her mom. And I don’t really know what’s happening here. But then she throws the wine bottle at the wall, which is a choice.

Analyssa: It was a better choice than what I thought was going to happen, which was that she was going to pocket it in front of Shane, and they were going to have a whole fight about that. And I was like, “I don’t want to see that.” But just Ana speaking for Ana. Imagining being an alcoholic, something that’s really far away from me. She wasted a whole bottle of wine!

There’s so much of that thinking that you have to unlearn when you stop drinking. But I will never forget reading, in The Recovering, Leslie Jamison mentioning that she would remember when friends left beer in the bottom of their glasses. And that is still something that, if I’m with friends, and they leave a little bit of wine in there glass, I’m like, “What the fuck is wrong with you?” Drink it. To see someone actively relapsing, throwing a bottle of wine, I get she’s being dramatic. But I was like, “That’s a lot of wine right there.”

Riese: Yeah. But also, what the fuck are they going to do that they own real estate together? Oh, but I also like that Shane was like, “You can run Dana’s, and I can run the salon.” Because obviously Shane doesn’t want to run a bar. And also, Shane shouldn’t be around alcohol either, that much alcohol. And also, I would love for Finley to just sweep up the hair, and maybe get into shampooing. Get out of the bar, and also get away from Tess, because obviously Finley and Tess are not working.

Drew: Let’s open up two salons. Let’s have no more bars.

Riese: No more bars.

Drew: A roller rink and a salon.

Analyssa: I’d venture a hot take and say almost zero characters on The L Word need to be around alcohol.

Right. That’s true.

It’s so close to zero.

Riese: I mean, sometimes it’s nice if Bette has a little bit too much. It’s entertaining. But-

Analyssa: I like Alice swanning around with a big glass, which she does sometimes. That’s kind of fun.

Drew: We go back to Sophie getting the whole show together.

Analyssa: She’s done so much in 45 minutes.

Drew: Yeah, it’s incredible.

Riese: I know. Amazing. Incredible.

Analyssa: Amazing stuff.

Riese: Look at her go.

Drew: And-

Riese: Who’s that girl? It’s Sophie.

Drew: Dre’s there and wants to talk to Dani about the whole I Love You incident. And Dani’s like, “I’ve got to do business at the business factory right now. We cannot address the I Love You situation.”

Riese: Right. Then we go to, what is it called? Frosties?

Analyssa: Fosters Freeze.

Riese: Fosters Freeze?

Analyssa: This is a real place, and I think that I was at Fosters Freeze on the night that it was being location scouted for The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: Because I was there a few months ago.

Riese: Yeah?

Analyssa: Picture this, I’m at Fosters Freeze with Louis and some friends. There is a person with a fancy camera, and kind of a video camera, too, walking around Fosters Freeze. It’s also night. We were like, “This is so weird. What are they doing?” We kept being like, “Maybe they’re going to take … Maybe they’re a photographer.” It’s got all that neon stuff on it, and we could not figure it out. And I kept saying, “I feel like they’re location scouting to use this for something.” They’re at Fosters Freeze in this episode of The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: When this scene started, did you go …

Analyssa: Yes! All caps. Maybe I was at this Fosters Freeze when they were location scouting. I was shocked.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: It was also a cool hip person who looked-

Drew: Gay?

Analyssa: Queer.

Riese: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: And so then I was like, “Well, maybe.”

Riese: Yeah. It was either there scouting for this or Warrior Nun.

Drew: In this moment, Bette is being very level-headed, and Tina is like, “I want to murder him.”

Riese: Right. And Bette’s like, “We can’t kill another black man on this show. It’s just-”

Analyssa: We’ve reached-

Riese: We reached capacity.

Analyssa: We’ve done too many already, actually.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Tina’s like, “I feel like we’re losing Angie.” And Bette’s like, “We are, and that’s good.” And Bette Porter, the growth. It’s really incredible.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I do feel like they need to have a conversation with Angie about this, that’s gentle and patient, and understanding that she’s not going to get it. And telling her that she’s too young to understand it is the worst way.

Drew: Yeah. Maybe privately, too.

Riese: Privately, yeah. A private conversation. But I like that Bette is like, “This is what happens. They grow up.”

Drew: And then they’re being all cute and ordering food while having a little bit of PDA. Okay. A potentially toxic trait of mine is, despite being a 29 year old transsexual, there is a part of me that, in this moment, was thinking about Alice saying, “Things were so different back then. You don’t understand.” Which, in that moment it’s like, “Come on, Alice.”

But then when watching Bette and Tina be all over each other as somewhat older lesbians ordering a burger, there was a moment where I was like, “They couldn’t act like this during the original series.” And there was something … My heart was a little bit warmed.

Riese: Yeah. I still had that knee jerk that I still have from being alive then, where I was like, “Oh, my God. You can’t touch each other in public.”

Analyssa: Yeah. I had the same reaction where I was like, “Oh, my God. They’re going to get yelled at or something.”

Riese: Yeah, “What are you doing?”

Analyssa: Yeah. And then I had the moment, I was like, “Oh, yeah.”

Riese: And then it was, “Oh, right. It’s fine. We’re okay now. Everything’s fine.”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I still-

Riese: I mean, not everything’s fine. But-

Drew: I still don’t do that with my partner in front of people. Which maybe I could, I don’t know. It’s perception of safety, and actual safety. I mean, it’s so whatever. That’s a whole conversation. But-

Riese: But, yeah. That was cute.

Drew: It was just something I clocked as we go back to Alice then looking for PJ with chicken on a string, and it’s like, “I get it. It’s karma.” But karma shouldn’t hurt cats, and then meow, cats in the tree. And that-

Riese: Well, I have two things to say about this scene. The first one is that the most entitled thing Alice does this episode is stand in the middle of the street as if she’s not going to be run over.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: She stands in the middle of the street.

Analyssa: She climbs into someone else’s bushes.

Riese: The second thing is that as soon as I saw her kitten in a tree, I thought, “She’s going to need a firefighter to get that kitten down. And I know exactly who that firefighter is going to be.”

Analyssa: I wasn’t as fast. I wasn’t-

Riese: Really? Did you guys think that?

Drew: I watched this with Elise, and from early this episode, she was like, “Tasha’s going to come back.” And I was like, “What?” And then when the cat’s missing, she was like, “Tasha’s-” Was so on it, and I kept being like, “I really think it’s going to be Taylor. I really think that, based on the previously on, Taylor’s going to be the person who comes back at the end.”

Analyssa: I kept thinking Taylor was going to pop up, too. Why do you guys have such good spidey senses for this shit?

Drew: Well, I don’t. Elise has-

Analyssa: I do not.

Riese: I mean, because I had thought before, “How could they bring Tasha back, and have her be in a job that’s not a cop, but is still, you can believe that she got to this job in her journey of not being a cop?” And it was firefighter, and also that’s really hot to be a firefighter. That works. We love this for her. But also, they did talk about her in that last episode in a way that-

Analyssa: I knew before I saw her face, but I did not know until firefighters arrived, and I was like, “Oh!”

Riese: No. I was like, “Kitten in the tree. Here we go. Here we go! here we go!” But also, she called 911, and she’s like, “It’s an emergency. I mean, it’s actually not an emergency.” But I was like, “Good. Finally someone gets to talk to 911 operator just like everyone’s been screaming to do all season.”

Drew: Yeah, that was the most unrealistic thing. Unfortunately, the next scene is Angie going to Hendrix and he’s like-

I thought it was, at first, because they show a box, and someone putting things in the box, I thought it was their dorm room, and Bella was moving out.

Analyssa: I did, too.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: And I was like …

Analyssa: I did not think she was going back to talk to Hendrix at all. I thought she was going home, and when she says, I think one of her first lines was like, “I’m sorry.” Or something. And I was like, “Oh, she’s saying she’s sorry to Bella for exploding at her.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: No, she’s-

Riese: It’s that man.

Drew: It’s that man, and he’s like, “I didn’t need to get fired. I quit because I want to work on my novel.” Or whatever.

Riese: No one wants to read your novel, and also, you have two weeks left in the semester. What are you doing? You fucking moron.

Analyssa: Also, just like, what a jerk.

Riese: Yeah, what an idiot.

Analyssa: So many people would want this job. To be like, “I quit, and I’ve been thinking this job is not even right for me anyway, because I’m going to write a book.” Okay, cool.

Riese: Yeah. Your first book did so well, whatever. You can’t drop out to work full-time on your book unless you already have a book deal.

Drew: Or come from money.

Riese: Or come from money, which I don’t know. I don’t know anything about this man. All I know is that Angie, for some reason, still wants to sleep with him, and even after their toxic conversation, she still wants to bone this man.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. Because basically he says, “I’ve resigned.” And so she’s like, “Well then, let’s get after it.”

Riese: And literally not one person cheered at home for that.

Drew: I mean, again, I do think now that the show’s acknowledged it, I mean, I would rather them do other things now because this has gone on for far too long. But I at least feel slightly better in my brain and my heart, because they’ve acknowledged that it’s wrong.

Riese: Yeah. Even Shane mentioned the guys. She was like, “How old is he? Is he like 27?” That’s when she was like, “You guys are hypocrites.” And I was like, “Fair.” But also, when I was 18, and I told my mom I was dating a 27 year old, she said, “Well, you’ve always been very mature for your age.”

Drew: But that’s the thing, is that it didn’t feel-

Riese: And I thought, “You’re right. I have been. So true.”

Drew: It didn’t feel, especially given how everything blew up, thank you, Tina. It didn’t feel unrealistic that she’d still be hung up on this guy. She also lost her virginity to him, which virginity is whatever, but it is as constructed in our society, does have a thing, is a thing.

Riese: I mean, I think she’s in a bad relationship that has weird toxic dynamics, and she doesn’t know the difference yet between being in love and being in something that makes you feel crazy because it’s crazy.

Analyssa: Despite having dated someone for two years, which is right a little bit-

Drew: Right. They’re just pretending Jordy, her cisgender girlfriend of the past, doesn’t … And we’re going to go along with them, I guess.

Analyssa: Okay. Carrie and Misty are watching more Grey’s Anatomy. I just want to say, they’ve skipped like four seasons in the interim. I don’t want to go into the specifics, but the things they were talking about in the morning, and the things they’re talking about in the evening, at least as far as I remember, having watched it twice, happened about four seasons apart.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Two to four seasons apart.

Drew: Maybe they’re chaotic TV watchers, and they’re like, “No, no. Actually, let’s skip forward to my favorite season of the show.”

Analyssa: They’ve got the episodes on shuffle. She’s just picking up random-

Riese: Right. Or Carrie was picking up that Misty didn’t seem to it that much, and then was like, “Well, let’s go forward to this other season.” Maybe you’ll like that part better. And it’s like you care so deeply. It’s like giving birth in front of somebody, showing them a show you like. I just really appreciated this representation that I felt was really true to my life, my lesbian life. Going on a hike, watching Hulu, making out, and talking about our feelings as a typical weekend day.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Accurate.

Riese: Accurate.

Analyssa: Lovely.

Riese: A juice involved in there somewhere. I don’t know, some water.

Drew: Maybe even some clear water if you’re lucky.

Riese: Maybe even some clear water for as a treat.

Analyssa: Yeah. The magnitude of all that Carrie has been through this week has finally hit her, and she starts crying while they’re making out.

Drew: Yeah. Well, I think first, Misty’s hands starts to go down towards genitalia, and I don’t know why I said it like that. I’m just so used to being-

Riese: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Gregory.

Drew: I’m so used to talking about trans people, and not knowing what language someone likes.

Analyssa: Misty’s hand started to get sexy.

Drew: Yeah, thank you.

Riese: Heavy petting below the waist.

Drew: I don’t know if any of that’s sexier.

Riese: Groin area, crotch.

Analyssa: You don’t think below the waist is sexier than genitalia?

Drew: No, heavy petting.

Riese: Heavy petting is-

Drew: It’s still sexier than-

Analyssa: I think genitalia has to be the least sexy option.

Drew: I mean, my notes just say, “Carrie moves Misty’s hand down.”

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Yeah, and Misty says-

Riese: Down where?

Analyssa: Well, exactly.

Riese: Towards what?

Analyssa: Towards what, Drew?

Drew: Genitalia. Misty says, “Are you sure?”

Riese: Genitalia.

Drew: And Carrie says yes, and then starts to cry. And I also appreciated that representation of, sometimes sex is vulnerable, and opens some things up, and you’ve been needing to have a cry, and it happens when you’re feeling safe with someone and having some sex. But then, yeah, Carrie talks about it all hitting her, and then they keep making out, and they keep going.

Analyssa: And Misty says neither of them are going anywhere, which is very sweet.

Riese: Yeah. That was really nice.

Drew: I love it.

Riese: And they start hooking up, and then the camera goes away, and that’s fine. I know Rosie didn’t want to do a sex scene, and so I’ll allow it.

Drew: It’s so fine. It is, once again, why there should be more butch characters. There should be more fat characters.

Riese: Older characters.

Drew: Yeah. It’s the thing where you’re like, it’s fine that Micah and Maribel are boring, and want to go to sleep by 9:00 PM or whatever. That’s totally fine for those characters. It’s just questionable when it’s like, why is your trans character, and why is your disabled character the ones that are boring? In this case it’s fine. I mean this season, we don’t see anyone have sex, so it’s really not even that different. But it’s like we all know, we’ve said it.

Analyssa: Speaking of not going anywhere.

Riese: We go to Bette and Tina, outside of Frosty’s, and Tina’s like, “What if we just got married and had a party for our friends?” And I just want to say that they already did get married, and I don’t understand again, are we supposed to … Because if you’ve already been married, isn’t the conversation that you would start about wanting to get married, maybe acknowledge that you’re being remarried?

Drew: Will we get remarried?

Riese: Remarried, because they’ve already been divorced. I went back and I checked, and this is not something we made up in our heads. They got divorced. They were married.

Drew: Yeah. I do know people who have broken up after long periods of time, and had a life together, and referred to it as a divorce, even if it wasn’t an official divorce.

Riese: I think they were engaged at the end of season six though, weren’t they?

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. And also they’re normies.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. And they had a kid, they would’ve gotten married. They were married.

Drew: They would’ve gotten married the moment it was legal.

Riese: Yeah. They would’ve gotten married in 2015, I guess.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Oh, Riese, remember when we were at that pride right after gay marriage got legalized in San Francisco?

Riese: Yeah. That was so sweet.

Analyssa: And everyone was so happy.

Riese: Everyone was so happy.

Analyssa: A lot of people there probably got married, really.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I got engaged, I think if maybe a week later. And as you can see, it worked out.

Drew: Gay people shouldn’t get married?

Analyssa: This just in …

Riese: But, anyway-

Drew: Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Riese: Right. Tina turns around, and Bette already has a ring. She’s like, “This is what I was going to do at dinner.” And that checks out, and that’s cute. And I may have teared up against my will.

Drew: I was happy for them. I mean, it’s so funny how Bette went from being a character who I cared so much about, to, “I don’t really care about Bette Porter anymore, but I’m happy for them.” I truly feel like they feel like relatives of mine, where I’m just like, “We are never going to see eye to eye on a lot of things, and you’re doing your own little thing off to the side, and I wish you the best.” But there’s still a love there, and Godspeed.

Analyssa: Yeah. I feel the way about them as I do about some of my high school teachers, who I was deeply obsessed with in a, can’t really explain, kind of way. And now that I’m an adult, I can explain some of it, but I’m also just happy for them. I don’t feel that intensely about them, but I did once, and so I always want them to be happy, and I beam when they beam.

Riese: I mean, I loved them in this episode, and I thought it was nice that it showed you don’t have to have a couple be breaking up to have them have conflicts. And this was pretty sweet. And then, kindly, Bette had arranged for fireworks to go off in the sky at this exact moment.

Analyssa: If they’re where I think they are, that just means the Dodgers just won a game.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: That part checked out to me. There are always just random fireworks going off in LA.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Sometimes it times out. Then we go to Dre singing, and a little montage, and you know what? Dani’s instincts off of that one karaoke performance were correct, because Dre is actually quite good.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: Did I feel as though Dre’s song was written by the house band?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Because it had the same vibes as a lot of the music that’s been in. I wonder if that was really Carmen singing.

Analyssa: They have backup singers, which is just-

Riese: Right. Yeah, they do have-

Analyssa: There’s so much that they’ve done in-

Riese: They have a drummer.

Analyssa: They’ve done so much in 45 minutes.

Riese: I know. Right. Also, I think we’re meant to believe this is the song that Dre was writing this morning, right?

Analyssa: Yes, correct.

Riese: And now they’re ready to perform in an Alice show?

Analyssa: Yes. Absolutely.

Riese: Amazing. Honestly, a prodigy, and they deserve all the fame and wealth in the world. And Sophie and Dani are so proud of themselves, and that’s cute.

Drew: And then Finley hears Misty and Carrie fucking, and starts to look for apartments, which is the right move.

Riese: No, it’s not. It’s a terrible move.

Drew: Oh, I guess it’s not a right move financially, but did-

Riese: She’s poor.

Analyssa: She owes-

Riese: She wants to go back to school.

Analyssa: She insists-

Riese: She wants to pay Alice back for rehab.

Analyssa: She insists that she owes Alice money for rehab.

Riese: You have a parental figure who’s like, “You can stay and live in my wonderful beautiful house for free, indefinitely.” If you were going back to school-

Drew: But did Carrie say that?

Riese: I mean, I think it’s implied.

Drew: Okay. I guess I was thinking more of-

Riese: That Carrie might want her own space?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, that’s fair.

Drew: That Finley’s kind of imposing. But I mean, I’ve looked at apartments. It’s not great out there, let me tell you.

Riese: Right. But I’m sure that Googling LA apartments is definitely your first step in finding one.

Drew: I think Finley needs to go on one of those Facebook groups that’s queer housing, and find a house with three roommates, and do that.

Riese: Right. Yeah. I’m just like, “You just bought a car. You have a whole room.”

Drew: Oh, yeah. That, I don’t know how to-

Riese: You know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But I have a feeling that they’re going to have Finley getting her own apartment next. Maybe I just want her to live with Carrie because I like their-

Drew: Well, it’s fun. Yeah, for sure.

Riese: Yeah. I love the chosen family vibes.

Analyssa: We get a classic end of an L Word episode montage for a minute, which is Angie and Hendrix have done it, great.

Riese: Oh, that was them getting redressed?

Analyssa: Yeah, I think so.

Riese: I thought she was watching him get undressed, and I was so upset.

Drew: No, I thought it was redressed.

Analyssa: No, I think it’s redressed. Tess is drinking at Dana’s and dancing dance sound by herself.

Riese: Dancing?

Drew: Looks like this.

Riese: She’s like, “I love bars.”

Drew: Yeah. Looks like the scene that makes no sense from euphoria when it was very stylized, alone in the bar, dancing.

Riese: Right. She’s done this before.

Yes, this exact thing.

Drew: Oh, I don’t remember that.

Riese: I don’t know if she was alone. I think patrons were there, but it was where she was drunk and dancing, wearing-

Analyssa: And it was an overhead shot, I feel like it. It was so similar.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Were we supposed to take cinematic parallels from that? I don’t know what they were-

Riese: The parallel is that they’re doing the same bad storyline twice, I guess. Shane’s packing.

Drew: Oh, I thought Shane was smelling Tess’s clothes. Or she’s smelling her own clothes?

Riese: Or she’s packing Tess’s clothes.

Analyssa: I think she’s packing Tess’s clothes up, and smelling the dress remorsefully.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right. Okay.

Analyssa: Sure. And then we get two more scenes, which is post show Dre is packing their stuff out of Dani’s apartment, and is like, “I have to leave, because what I said this morning is true.” And their-

Riese: I’m falling for you.

Analyssa: Their whole agreement has been that they’re going to do something casual. Dre’s basically like, “If you don’t feel the same, I got to get out of here so that I don’t get hurt.”

Drew: I do think sometimes you just got to give people time. People have walls. Clearly Dani’s fault. I get it. People are so concerned with, I don’t know. Watching it with Elise, she was like, “I was glad that you waited and let me say I love you first, or else I probably would’ve gotten freaked out.” It became a joke where I was waiting, and she knew I was waiting.

Riese: Would you be like, “I really like you so much.” Before hanging up the phone?

Drew: Yeah. It was like whatever, and then when Elise said I love you for the first time, I said, “I love you too. I win!” I shouted, “I win.” I think I said I love you too before I said I win.

Riese: Do you guys usually say it first? Or not first?

Drew: That was the first time I’d ever not said it first. Yeah. I always say it first. And this is a fun fact, a podcast exclusive. I don’t think Elise would care of me saying this. She said it to me when we were making Stir Fry, and I went, “You know, you said it to me when we were making stir fry.” And she was like, “Yeah, so?” I was like, “I don’t know, stir fry’s kind of a thing in the lesbian community because of Bette and Tina having sex with the-” And she was like, “I take it back.” No, she didn’t say that. But-

Analyssa: She’s like, “I want off. Thank you.”

Riese: She’s like, “Just kidding, actually.”

Drew: Love feeding.

Riese: Yeah. Anyway, I think Dre’s being stupid. I think that-

Drew: But I think Dani does love them, and is going to say I love you.

Riese: Yeah, I mean, also, it’s been two weeks.

Drew: Calm down. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Calm down. They’re the one who has a sort of girlfriend back in Ohio. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah. And also, this conversation could just be … I mean this is The L Word, and this is the kind of stuff I like being mad about.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Analyssa: And this defies human behavior, but in a fun way. They could have just been like, “I said something kind of crazy. You don’t have to say that back, but I’m very in this actually. I know we said it was going to be casual. It’s not.” That’s really all the conversation needs to be. But I love the drama anyway, and yeah, Dani is falling, clearly..

Drew: Hard. Can we get a reveal?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Right. Then we go back to the mean streets of Los Angeles, and all the firefighters are there, and they got Alice, her kitten, out of a tree, and then those lights kind of come up.

Analyssa: As the lights started coming up, I said …

Riese: Yeah, and you see her hair. Because also, they had her holding the kitten with gloves on, and it was only from chest, down. And I was like, “It’s Tasha! It’s Tasha!” And then it went around, and then-

Analyssa: I watched this episode at 2:00 in the morning, and I gasped so loudly that I was worried I would wake you and Elise, or Alex. I was like, “I still don’t know how sound travels in our home after two years of living in it.” And I was like, “They heard me.” Then Tasha has returned, and they have, to me, some of the most delightful banter I’ve ever encountered.

Drew: They are immediately bickering. It’s great.

Riese: I know. Alice was like, “This is so annoying.” And this was what they were always fighting about. But I was like, this is interesting that Tasha’s back, because Tasha was the one who was there for her during the Daryl Brewer round one, and who also was like, “This was terrible. What were you thinking?”

Analyssa: Right. Was supportive, but also had a voice of reason.

Riese: Yeah. They literally broke up over it and got back together. In my imagination, when I first realized Tasha’s going to be in this episode, I wanted them to immediately go to each other, start making out, then we have a sex scene. I was ready. I was completely shocked that they were going to actually start it with them immediately fighting.

Drew: It was very funny. I really appreciated that as it’s like, “Oh, the lighting. The reveal.” And then it was like, “Oh, my God!” So funny. And then the very final moment is the extra eating the chicken. The chicken that was on the string, because she hands it to the extra.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “Here, it’s good.”

Drew: And I don’t remember the last thing she says to Tasha.

Riese: I do.

Analyssa: They bicker, and then Alice is like, “Fuck this, I’m leaving. I don’t need this.”

Riese: Right. After she walks them down, she thanks all of the firefighters for their service, pressing company excluded. It was so funny.

Analyssa: Yes. And then she’s like, “All right. I’m going back home.” And then Tasha’s like, “Alice, wait.” And I was like … And she goes, “There’s paperwork.”

Riese: But there’s a moment when she says Alice. She turns around, and her face is wide open and hopeful. And there’s also a part … Did I wash this four times? Yes. It turns out I’m deeply invested in Alice and Tasha in a way that I had forgotten. But there’s a part when Alice is talking to the firefighters, when Tasha’s smiling and watching, like, “Here she goes.” And not in an antagonistic way.

Drew: Yeah. But then after there’s paperwork in the background, the extra-

Analyssa: The extra is just eating the thing that-

Drew: Ate the chicken, and took one big bite, and had wide eyes watching the thing. And I was like, “Excellent work. Shout out to that extra.”

Riese: I also was like, “There’s a man filming their conversation, too.”

Drew: I was worried about that.

Riese: I was like, “Alice, what are you doing? This is not a good look either. You’re yelling at a firefighter.”

Analyssa: Well, because she’s like, “You don’t-”

Riese: You can’t yell at a firefighter.

Analyssa: Any firefighter. Even if you know them, the context won’t matter. But she was like, “Everyone knows that I’m having a bad day. Everyone in the world knows that I’m having a bad day.” And Tasha’s like, “Absolutely not. I know nothing about what you’re doing.”

Drew: It is such a good choice to have Tasha back, for many reasons. But one is because she was the one who would always call Alice out on being like, “You live in a bubble.” And so, now-

Riese: I really hope she’s in. In the episode description for the next episode, which will be out by the time we-

Drew: She has to be in the next-

Riese: It says, “Alice discovers the one is closer than she thinks.” Or something like that.

Drew: It’s got to be Tasha, right?

Riese: I mean, it’s either Tasha, or it’s Shane. Right?

Drew: That’d be wild.

Riese: I think-

Analyssa: Imagine.

Riese: I mean, what? Tess? Sophie? Closer than-

Analyssa: Right. Closer than you think is, they’re around, they’re in your orbit right now.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I mean, yeah.

Riese: If Tasha’s not in the next episode, I am going to actually physically cry.

Drew: I would be really sad. I guess Taylor’s just not a thing. I really thought that Taylor was going to be a thing.

Analyssa: Okay. You can have Bella having a crush on Angie, but you will not have-

Drew: Well, no. I was wrong. I was so wrong.

Analyssa: Taylor and Alice didn’t really break up.

Drew: I know. I know. I’m not-

Riese: But I guess that was leading to this sort of-

Drew: Right.

Riese: That she’s living in a bubble, and she’s not understanding what she’s doing.

Analyssa: So then-

Drew: And that’s the episode-

Analyssa: That was the episode.

Riese: They have so much to do next week. How?

Analyssa: There are so many balls in the air.

Riese: Bette and Tina getting married.

Drew: They’re going to get married next episode? I guess so.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The big event.

Riese: The big event.

Drew: Do you know what would be great?

Riese: Huh?

Drew: Another time jump. It’s been a month.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: We’re past the wedding.

Riese: Tasha and Alice are wedding dates.

Drew: And Hendrix is going to be Angie’s date, drops out. Angie needs a date. Bella volunteers.

Riese: Yeah, Bella steps in. Yeah.

Drew: What other storylines?

Riese: Well, the-

Drew: Shane’s opened her salon.

Riese: The storyline is-

Analyssa: Finley and Sophie hook up at the reception.

Riese: Yes. So it’s like-

Drew: Should we do fan fiction? No more podcasts.

Riese: The description was something like, “Shane and Sophie try to break old patterns. Micah and Maribel take a first step on their road to parenthood. Finley takes a big step as an adult.” Or something. I assume that’s getting an apartment. I don’t think the descriptions say anything about Bette and Tina, but we all know that they’re going to get married, because other bloggers have talked about that. But I’m just like, “How are they going to do all of this?”

Drew: Do we know if it’s the same length as the usual episodes?

Analyssa: I was going to say, extra chunky episode.

Riese: Hopefully it’s longer.

Analyssa: Let’s go.

Riese: I’m ready for an hour 20 minute episode.

Analyssa: It’s Showtime. They can do it.

Drew: Given how long it took them to renew season three, I don’t know if the ratings have been astronomically better.

Riese: They haven’t.

Drew: But most networks have been cutting costs. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next episode of The L Word is the last episode of The L Word, until The L Word: Old Folks Home, or whatever the next generation of reboots is.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I know.

Drew: I think that’s a real… It’s so…

Riese: I think, logically, they should renew it, because if you’re talking about wanting to get new subscribers for a streaming network, lesbians will sign up for your network.

Drew: Yeah. If people who made decisions recognized how much money they could make off of gay people, they would make different business decisions than they do.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: It’s true.

Riese: Last season, by the time we got to episode 208, we were like, “This show is terrible, and I never want to see it again.” But they really had a big comeback this week.

Analyssa: This was a strong comeback.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The thing I was just thinking about is, I don’t know how Showtime works, but I know in my day job that sometimes if an episode comes in short earlier in the season, you can buy time for episodes later in the season.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Analyssa: And the musical episode was super short.

Riese: It was.

Analyssa: Relative to the rest of them. I’m thinking … I don’t know if that has anything to do with that. We’ve had that sometimes where writers and producers will want a show to be extra long, and we’re like, “Well, you have to lose it from other episodes.” Or they’ll turn in a really short episode, and be like, “This is great. Because it means we have a few more minutes for something else.”

Riese: Interesting.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. It’s-

Riese: Are Gigi-

Analyssa: Oh, yeah. Is Gigi going to come back?

Riese: Is Gigi coming back? That’s the other thing. Now I’m like, “They don’t even have time for that.” Because next, they have to do something with Angie and Bella next time. Right? They have to something with Alice and Tessa, for me, personally.

Drew: I mean, Micah and Maribel can literally, their storyline, something happens in five seconds. I bet they get five seconds of the episode.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I guess they don’t have to do anything with Carrie and Misty. That’s a bummer. But there’s nothing up in the air there. They have something to do with Finley. Dani and Dre have to decide what they’re doing. Sophie will obviously have a storyline. I don’t really know what the question mark is. But-

Riese: Yeah. It’s whatever it is, trying to break old patterns.

Drew: What I find frustrating is-

Riese: Air pollution?

Drew: What? I do find air pollution frustrating.

Analyssa: The cost of living in Los Angeles?

Drew: Oh, God. 100 and whatever dollars on groceries today just killed me.

Riese: Yeah, everything costs like $20 now.

Drew: I don’t know how I’m going to… Anyways, that’s not what I was talking about. What I was talking about is the fact that if I felt more assurance that, I don’t know, A League of Their Own was coming back for a second season, or some other shows that I like that have queer characters on them, and not just queer characters on them, but are queer centric. If I had more faith that they were continuing, that new ones were coming, I would say, “I think it’s maybe time.”

I think a lot of the problems that Gen Q has is a product of trying to make up for the past, move forward, encompass all these different generations, all these different identities. And if the season finale next episode is a really strong season finale with a Bette, Tina wedding, it sort of does feel like it’s important to know when to say goodbye, and that feels right.

The only problem is, as much as it drives me nuts, the media landscape has changed a lot since the original L Word. But when it comes to an ensemble show of queer characters, I mean Queer as Folk got canceled. We don’t really have it. And so, that is the only thing that’s like a real bummer.

Riese: Yeah. It’s also a bummer because Showtime is one of the only networks that realizes that advertising your lesbian show to a lesbian audience, through a lesbian website, is a really good idea. Because no one else seems to…

Analyssa: Want to be interested in that?

Riese: Including Queer as Folk.

Drew: Queer as Folk didn’t advertise at all.

Riese: I feel like they’re on bus stops.

Drew: And dropped all the episodes at once. I mean, all these fucking networks just set their shows up to fail. Imagine if A League of Their Own was released weekly, the hold it would’ve had on… I mean, we have Yellowjackets and stuff. That’s-

Riese: Yeah. But also, what are they doing now? How are all these actors and writers going to fit this into their schedule? They’ve been waiting a year, basically, to see if they’re going to be renewed. This doesn’t make sense.

Anyway, I’m excited for next week. They have a lot of work to do, and unfortunately, on my press account, episode 10 was there. And then I guess they changed their mind and took it back, and now I just think, “God, I wish I’d watched it.” But I hadn’t even watched this one yet. Now I just have to sit here not knowing, and it hurts deeply.

Lauren: Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back, Generation Q edition. One of two podcasts brought to you by You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. And you can also email us at [email protected]. Our theme song is by the Talented Beast Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two a’s and on Twitter @analoca_ with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here And finally, to end this EP, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1. Quirky.

Analyssa: Quibi.

Riese: Quintessential.

Drew: I said quirky. I don’t have a reason why, but if you give me a second, I’m sure I could justify it. Who was the quirkiest character this episode?

Riese: Alice.

Analyssa: It’s almost always Alice.

Drew: Alice in the little Evil Knievel… yeah.

Analyssa: I want to see her ride that little bike so bad. I said Quibi. RIP to Quibi.

Drew: Oh, wow. RIP Quibi.

Riese: Oh, Quibi. Wow, that was a lark.

Analyssa: Yeah, wasn’t it?

Riese: I said quintessential because it’s quintessential.

Drew: I could not agree more, Riese.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: Thank you.

Drew: It’s about time someone say it.

Analyssa: That was brave of you.

Riese: I wanted to be brave today, and after Shane pitched her salon to Tess, I thought if Shane could do that, I can do anything. I can have a salon.

Analyssa: You could.

Riese: Yeah. Thank you so much for all your time. I don’t know who I’m talking to, you guys, Carol, the audience, the listeners, the fans, the lovers, the dreamers.

Analyssa: The haters.

Riese: The haters. Yeah. If you hate us, thank you.

Drew: You’re listening. And at the end of the day—

Analyssa: That’s what matters to us.

Riese: That’s what matters to us. That’s what mattered to Alice.

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Analyssa is a co-host of the To L and Back podcast: Gen Q edition. She lives in LA, works at a TV studio, and can often be found binge-watching an ABC drama from 2008. You can follow her on Twitter, Instagram, or her social media of choice, Letterboxd.

Analyssa has written 58 articles for us.


  1. Robot Hugs meets GenQ! So I am not Canadian but I appreciated your statement that Canada’s health care system does not cover eyes, teeth and mental health, as I remember a comic by Robot Hugs some time ago in which Robot addresses this. And because I love the Robot Hugs comics deeply and the information in it was the opposite to how Canada is often portrayed (as this shiny wonderful state), I remembered it and was like “huh?” when Tina said “universal health care.”

    The episode was good, solid, overall consistent and I enjoyed it. Kate did a great job directing!

    I was also irritated that Alice interrupting the movie screening went viral weeks after the actual event because the internet is faster and I would have expected the shitstorm earlier.

    While I agree that someone should have had a serious conversation about Darryl Brewer and Alice, a white cis queer woman who is rich, outing a Black man, I also remember someone in the comments pointing out that it does makes sense that her younger employees of color don’t do it.

    There are so so so many points I agree on with you in this podcast (that it was well done with Alice having to answer for some of her past mistakes, the Hendrix/Angie storyline, that doing sports past one’s capacity is not healthy…), but Bette’s big glasses are not one of them :) When I saw the glasses, I was like “why?!”

    I too expected Taylor and Alice to become a thing!

    Finley’s finances are stressing me out – how is she financing all of that by working in a bar? Stay at Carrie’s place!

    “But then also, I guarantee there are actors who have requested things for their characters, and that hasn’t been listened to.” YES! It is a tired explanation that body-shaming-elements in this and the second season were because Rosie wanted something. There is so much that actors and that never becomes a story. This is why the reason that the only older butch character who is not thin is having a storyline about OA, calories etc., because Rosie requested it feels like a bad excuse from or for the showrunners/writers who are not giving us more characters who are not thin, who are butch, older etc. You are still giving a message, here.

    I also thought Shane and Tess were hooking up.

    Unpopular opinion: I never liked Alice (I find her annoying), and I also never liked Bette (too controlling).
    “we haven’t really seen [Bette and Tina] get to be mothers to Angie in a way where that’s not about them.” True! And I would love to see what it does to Angie with the amount of parentification that she most likely grew up with.

    “Queer people constantly say dyke and fag.” This is what I thought as well and I was super-irritated by it!

    Oh wow, I didn’t realize that BetTina and Shane were part of Bella’s bisexual or lesbian awakening! Thanks for pointing that out.

    Here’s to hoping next episode will be longer – I’m super-here for it. And I hope GenQ will be renewed. Sophie said it about the Aloce Show, which is also true for L Word Gen Q and seemed like a meta moment: it the only one out there (with Queer as Folk cancelled and an unclear future regarding A League of Their Own).

    Thanks for another great podcast!

    • Thank you for listening!!! We too hope there is another season, and yes it does feel much like the Aloce Show awaiting their pickup. There will be a huge void in our hearts and our TV lineups if this show goes away!

  2. Maybe because I’m a Finley apologist, but as a fat person I wasn’t bothered by her behavior as much as you all seemed to be. As Riese pointed out, I appreciated that she never said anything about size. It sounded like the doctor just gave a recovery plan, and she was following it to a tee out of anxiety / that seems to be her way, based on how she’s operated at her jobs. I am still annoyed that they made the non-thin character have a heart attack and hate exercise / healthy eating, and I hated that she was in OA last season, but I appreciated the characters themselves not actually being fat phobic

    But I am but one person with an opinion!

    Anyway, loved the pod as always! I too hope Finley and Sophie hook up at the wedding bc if the show gets cancelled with them still not on the path to reconciliation I will be unhappy! Finley’s step to adulthood being an apartment is boring! Dre is very lucky to have fallen in with these well connected power lesbians!

    • Definitely see the point about Finley, maybe I just found it to be the straw that broke the camel’s back? Like Drew said, it’s just a hazard of there being ONE character that is not thin on the show, it becomes a big burden on that character!!

      I need some drama at this wedding, they have so much to do — maybe Dre has to fill in as the reception singer for their next big break!

  3. regarding drew’s point about how queer people constantly say d-ke and f-g— i think that is true for many queer people, but certainly not all. i have definitely traveled amongst queers who are a bit overly preoccupied with who can and can’t say what, so the joke resonated for me personally. i also think there are a number of gays who would be pretty upset at alice for using f-g, were this storyline to play out in real life. i can definitely see why these plot elements wouldn’t work for individuals outside of those weird social bubbles, though!

    • This makes total sense!! Everyone’s relationship to those words is different, it’s just a funny first reaction from Dani versus like…”god please don’t say that word in the apology okay?”

  4. Tasha’s return to the L World realm is a good first step towards healing from the fact that Gigi was in 3/10 episodes this season while That Man looks to be in 7/10. And two of the episodes we were spared, it’s because Angie was absent! Hoping this tally drops down to 6 because he is absent from the finale and Angie instead realizes that Bella (as 1 of 2 new people Angie has apparently met at college, the 2nd person being her grade-granting instructor) has truly been the person who care about her and values her all along.

  5. Has anyone else listened to the Hot Takes & Deep Dives podcast with Marja Lewis Ryan that released today (was recorded last week)? Marja comes across as fairly insufferable (to me) in parts, talking about how she’s “cracked the code” of the show and bragging she could write an episode in 60 minutes flat (um, yeah, and maybe it shows?). I’m only halfway through the interview but I had to pause to come here to scream into the AS/Gen Q void.

    She did have any interesting take about how she introduced Bette’s mayoral run as a way to scaffold the narrative beyond the vague premise of “lesbians in LA” which makes me wonder if “addiction” was the scaffolding chosen for season 2 and this idea of “finding the one/self-actualizing” was season 3? Sadly she also confirmed that Carrie is not in the finale, sob.

    • Not to defend a showrunner who I’m sure is fine, but I found the interview pretty weird just bc the interviewer (who I find extremely annoying and offensive in her own way) clearly hates Marja’s guts, and has said so multiple times, and it definitely came across on video so I feel like she got nervous and defensive. Not to excuse anything she said, but I felt like there was some leading the witness going on there

      • Interesting; I didn’t pick up on that as much because I listened on audio only (also admittedly while doing other things).

        I also find the interviewer, Jess, to be grating – and she has said explicitly on other shows I’ve heard her on that she thinks Generation Q is terrible, pans the new actors, etc., so not exactly a generous starting point for an interview.

        I also found myself more sympathetic toward Marja as the interview went on (I wrote here when I’d only heard not even half, my fault there); and it was interesting to hear her address some of the topics that have come up in the recaps/threads/on the podcast. Shout-out to Drew for calling the Angie/Prof storyline as a writer’s room discussion that didn’t get nipped in the bud.

        I also appreciated more fully how hard it might have been to work Jenny into the brief Shane/Max encounter, although I was a little surprised to hear her say “I don’t care about the past, I only care about the future for these characters” (which felt a little surprising given that she had just waxed about her desire to keep Dana present).

        In any case, fascinating and I only wish we’d gotten some intel on why there is no sex this season!

    • Omg, I’m listening to the HT & DD podcast now. It’s fucking crazy?! Marja-Lewis defo comes across as insufferable. She couldn’t be more annoying?? The whiteness of it all, omg. She’s so self-satisfied it makes my skin crawl. I beg, stop talking. The way she talks about people of colour gives me the ick.

      But I also understand now why this show sucks, it’s on her shoulders. She strikes me as someone who absolutely would rather die than take on criticism and meaningfully change as a result of it.

  6. Gosh, I love y’all. I’ve been way too tired to digest my feelings about most of this season. In this episode, especially Alice and professor dude, and here y’all are getting into the nitty gritty of it all. Thank you!

    I’m so invested in Bella and Angie. I had my doubts about them happening too, but now that it’s clearly steering in that direction, I’m excited! College roommate trope, let’s go!

    I was not okay with Alice’s explanation of her and Tasha’s breakup in episode 7, unless Tasha was coming back. But I also had my doubts about them bringing Tasha back, so I was NOT expecting her appearance. I didn’t even clocked that she was the operator until my 2nd watch! Did I scream?! Who didn’t??

    I am also invested in Sinley apart, doing their own thing, growing in their own way in this episode. If they get back together via trauma/moment-of-weakness, like they almost did in the last episode, it would be too soon, but so hot, but too soon.

    I know we need drama, but I’d like to keep Dani in dating mode. I shipped her and Sophie so hard in season 1 (pre-proposal). Then her and Gigi in season 2, and now Dre (and Roxy) for the fun times! Let her roam!

    It is nice to be mad at character over writing this episode. The only writing I’m still frustrated about is Tess. I loved her so much in season 1, and ever since she became a main character, she’s just a constant outburst of bad ideas. What’s going on? Where are they taking her? Is she going to find her lover, Sidney, and monopolize the lesbian bar scene in LA? At least that’ll be entertaining!

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