“To L and Back” L Word Podcast Episode 511: Lunar Cycle

Are you gonna bleed soon? Alice sure hopes Tasha will! Furthermore, Bette and Jodi are wearing matching outfits for their all-day break-up-a-thon, Adele does a private premiere of Jenny and Niki’s sex tape and subsequently takes over “Lez Girls,” Dawn Denbo’s snatching the Planet right out of Kit’s arms, Shane’s got a very large bong, Alice is gushing over Clea (special guest Melanie Lynskey)’s hot androgynous menswear inspired fashions and Kit’s skulking around with a gun for some reason. Plus: a hot tip on how to poison Riese!

The usual:

Riese: Hi, I’m Riese!

Carly: And I’m Carly!

Riese: And this is—

Carly and Riese: To L and Back!

Carly: Hello!

Riese: Woo!

Carly: Welcome! We’re back again.

Riese: For more Ls.

Carly: More Ls. We’re taking a lot of Ls.

Riese: This week, we’ll be reviewing the TV show, Lucifer, the movie,The Lincoln Lawyer, and the concept of loose ends, just as an idea.

Carly: There’s a lot there. There’s so much to cover.

Riese: Yeah. It’s going to be like a madcap ride through time and space.

Carly: I am excited to be on a madcap ride with you!

Riese: I’m excited to be on a madcap ride with you, too.

Carly: Yeah. Normally, this would be an Autostraddle podcast where we talk about The L Word, but I think we just threw all that out the window today.

Riese: We’ve moved past that at this point.

Carly: I think we’re good.

Riese: We’ve grown, we’ve changed.

Carly: We did it, you know?

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: We’re good. Let’s move on, kind of thing. Which I feel really good about. I think that we should just be done.

Riese: I know that this is that we’re joking, but also, I do feel that we should’ve last time kind of said an elegy, because last week’s episode was the last good episode of the series.

Carly: Oh, god, you’re right. Should we do it right now? Should we do some sort of, “Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to talk about The L Word, but specifically first, we would like to say a—

Carly and Riese: Fond farewell.

Carly: Whoa, we said “fond farewell” at the same time. We would like to bid a fond farewell to the hope that an episode could be good because it’s over now.

Riese: There will be, there’s one episode in season six that has some good parts, the dance off one.

Carly: The dance, that one’s—

Riese: But—

Carly: … the best part of season six.

Riese: … season six on the whole is so poor. It’s just—

Carly: It’s so upsetting.

Riese: … so, so bad that even its best episode is still terrible, terrible. Yeah.

Carly: The final two episodes of season five are a real bummer.

Riese: Fine. Yeah.

Carly: They’re like—

Riese: Okay.

Carly: It’s like they’re trying to set you up for just the complete catastrophe that is season six, maybe. I don’t—

Riese: They’re easing us in.

Carly: Yeah. Maybe that’s what it is. Who knows. You know what? We’ll never know.

Riese: We’ll never know. Like so many things, we won’t know.

Carly: But what we do know is that all the best episodes of the show are officially behind us.

Riese: They are.

Carly: We will now be riding off into the sunset. And by sunset, I mean the fiery pits of hell.

Riese: Correct.

Carly: But we’re doing it together.

Riese: There’s no one else I’d rather go to the fiery pits of hell with.

Carly: Same, same.

Riese: Thank you and our friends on The L Word. At this point, I believe I still like Shane.

Carly: Yeah. Shane is fine. Everyone is kind of fucking up.

Riese: Tasha.

Carly: You’re right, Tasha is still great. Shane is still great. I’m having a hard time thinking of anyone else who is. Tina’s not bad.

Riese: No, Tina’s still not bad.

Carly: Tina’s fine.

Riese: Which is… God.

Carly: Which, what a shock.

Riese: Who ever thought we would be here?

Carly: Truly never saw this coming.

Riese: At this point, Tina apologist.

Carly: Jesus. Man, 2020 is quite a year.

Riese: 2020. You know who else is fine, Carly?

Carly: Who?

Riese: Against popular belief, it’s Max.

Carly: Max is great.

Riese: Max is still great even though no one appreciates him except for Tom.

Carly: Briefly, they appreciate Max this week. There’s a real … We’ll talk about that. We’ll get there.

Riese: We’ll get there.

Carly: Should we begin this journey?

Riese: Yeah, let’s do it.

Carly: Today’s episode is Season Five, Episode 11, the penultimate episode of season five, entitled “Lunar Cycle,” which is great—

Riese: Period.

Carly: … because last week it was called “Life Cycle.” I hope next week’s is called SoulCycle.

Riese: Me too. Lol Cycle. It’s like SoulCycle but with stand up comedy instead of inspiring …

I love it.

Riese: Do you want to come to it?

Carly: I would love to, yeah.

Riese: Okay.

Carly: But can I clip in?

Riese: Yeah, you can clip.

Carly: Okay, I got to clip in. I got the shoes and I got to clip into the shoes.

Riese: Yeah, clip in.

Carly: Okay. I’m going to clip in.

Riese: Clip in, okay.

Carly: Hey, everyone, clip in! It’s time for Lunar Cycle.

Riese: Clip in.

Carly: This episode where everyone’s PMSing and they talk about it 17% of the episode.

Riese: A lot.

Carly: This was written by Ilene Chaiken and directed by Bob Ashman, who is the longstanding cinematographer of the show. I believe this was his first and only episode that he directed. It’s pretty common for DP’s and folks that work on a show for a long time to eventually direct an episode. You see it with actors a lot. DP’s get to do that a lot. Occasionally, you’ll see a script supervisor, something like that. Even a writer. But this was not … I actually forgot he directed an episode, but this is not out of the ordinary at all.

Riese: Were they like, “Oh, let’s put Bob on the period episode?”

Carly: Yeah, it’s an interesting choice for sure. But who knows? Who knows how this happened?

Riese: Nice work, Bob.

Carly: This originally aired March 16, 2008.

Riese: I believe it.

Carly: That checks out.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: That tracks, that tracks.

Riese: Yeah, that tracks. That definitely tracks.

Carly: This feels like a mid March 2016, Ides of March, kind of vibe.

Riese: Sure, yeah, totally, definitely has an Ides of March vibe.

Carly: Super vibes. I guess we have no choice now but to recap this episode.

Riese: Let’s get into it.

Carly: Here we go.

Riese: We open in the screening room. Okay, yesterday with my friends, we hate-watched the entirety of Emily in Paris.

Carly: Ooh.

Riese: Yesterday when I was first watching this episode, which is before Emily in Paris, I would’ve said that the thing I’m watching on my screen, this film, Lez Girls, is the worst thing I’ve ever seen. But it’s not anymore. It’s the second worst. The worst thing I’ve ever seen happened yesterday, and it was called Emily in Paris.

Carly: It’s worse than season six of this show?

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: I have no desire to watch it. I’ve seen lots of people talking about it and I just don’t have any interest in watching it. But it’s been entertaining to watch people saying things about it online. But—

Riese: And terrible outfits.

Carly: Terrible outfits?

Riese: Terrible outfits. Yeah. Yeah, it’s upsetting.

Carly: Terrible outfits.

Riese: The thing about season six is honestly, how many people even watched it?

Carly: That’s fair.

Riese: Emily in Paris is doing far more damage. It’s reaching a far larger audience than season six ever did. But anyway, so we are watching a cut of the opening scene of Lez Girls. They have bastardized this true story.

Carly: This is unbelievable. I love this editor, this poor suffering editor. You know she has been in hell having to work on this project. It’s just like, what is this footage? The movie footage is bizarrely stylized in this sort of—

Riese: Everyone’s dressed like they’re in a kids show.

Carly: Yeah, it’s this mix of kids show—

Riese: Pink! Yellow! Green!

Carly: …And 70s aesthetic that makes very little sense.

Riese: I guess even Shaun is just completely — they’re not even trying to make Shaun even slightly masc. They’ve just gone full femme.

Carly: Everyone’s femme. Everyone’s white.

Riese: Everyone’s femme. Everyone’s white.

Carly: It’s just so boring.

Riese: It’s supposed to be the scene where Tina is there at The Planet with her friends and Bette comes in and is like, “I want to get back with you,” and she’s like …

Tina: Did you tell her in person or on the phone?
Bette: Why does that matter?
Tina: Because I drove by the house at 2AM and your car wasn’t there. Did you fuck all night before you told her I was the love of your life this morning?

Carly: And then she flips the table. It’s an incredible L Word scene. I think we can all agree.

Riese: But it’s been ruined.

Carly: Destroyed.

Bev: I know you’re all sitting there judging me. I guess I deserve it. I fucked up. But there’s something I need to say.
Shaun: We should go.
Nina: Yeah. No, stay. Please. You have something to say? Go ahead, say it front of our friends.
Bev: Nina, I just left the plumber’s house.
Nina: You just came from her house?
Bev: I told her that I love you. That you’re the love of my life. And I’m never going to see her again.
Nina: If I’m the love of your life, then why did you fuck her?

"Shaun" and "Karina" in "Lez Girls" admiring Bev and Nina's relationship

Riese: Destroyed. Just bashed to pieces and thrown against the wall like a glass bowl in a fight.

Carly: Was Jenny even at The Planet when that scene happened the first time? I meant to go back and check and then I didn’t.

Riese: No.

Carly: That’s the thing that’s also funny, is “Jenny” — I say in quotes — is telling the story and she wasn’t there for so many parts of it. And yet, her recreations of it match the show. Isn’t that stunning?

Riese: Yeah. I wonder if maybe Shane told her. But I guess the thing is that, this does answer one question for me because this scene is from season two, which is the scene that Helena did arrive in. That finally has been resolved. I’ll be able to sleep a little bit better at night because of that.

Carly: Speaking of Helena, she really needs to hurry up and get back.

Riese: I know. I’m impatient for that.

Carly: I need an outsider’s perspective on this bullshit right now.

Riese: Call her. Correct. Anyway, in this version of the story, Nina and Bev immediately forgive each other and become best lovers forever.

Carly: Best lovers forever.

Riese: Best lovers, yeah.

Carly: BLF’s?

Riese: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Carly: Yeah, the conflict goes away immediately. What a great script.

Riese: Point, set, end game.

Carly: Match, trophy, you won Wimbledon.

Riese: Olympics.

Carly: And a gold medal.

Riese: Pulitzer Prize, Nobel Prize, go on a cruise ship. We’re all eternally alive now.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: Epic of Gilgamesh.

Carly: The editor shows Jenny the scene, and Jenny, she’s got some notes.

Riese: Believe it or not, Jenny has some notes.

Carly: I’ve got notes but I don’t think going back through the raw footage is going to help with my notes because my notes really, come from all sorts of things that could’ve been fixed both in the script and in the production.

Riese: Yeah, well I think—

Carly: Such as not hiring Jennifer Schecter to be involved in this project.

Riese: Yeah, I think that’s true. But you know what? I think that what we’re about to find out this episode is that they really foster amateur talent at Shaolin.

Carly: It’s truly remarkable because no other studio does that.

Riese: Right. They really just — they want to take a young plucky heroine out, snatch her out of her mundane life, and make her a star director.

Carly: Well, as long as she’s conventionally pretty and single, something female-ing each other.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: Theme song!

Riese: Theme song, theme song. And then we go back to the real Planet.

Carly: Everyone is quietly reading the newspaper and eating breakfast.

Riese: And hating each other.

Carly: Truly, everyone is in the worst mood.

Riese: Correct. We find out that Jodi is staying with a friend even though she has her own apartment.

Carly: Right.

Riese: Shane, always the diplomat is like, “We’re Jodi’s friends too.” Which is true, but also I think that she’s going to be moving out of that social circle.

Carly: That group? That social circle.

Riese: Yeah. I have a little tiny feeling that this is the end of the road—

Carly: Just a hunch.

Riese: … for Jodi and the gals and The Planet.

Carly: Yeah. I think you’re right. I don’t think she’ll be hanging out at The Planet in West Hollywood anymore.

Riese: And then who shows up? It’s Dawn Denbo. It’s her Lover Cindi in white pants.

Dawn and Cindi approach the girls at The Planet

Carly: Oh, boy.

Riese: What’s gone on with them? They found Ivan Aycock. That name.

Carly: That name. They found Ivan.

Riese: Aycock.

Carly: Wait, does Ivan use she/her pronouns on this show? I don’t remember. I always remember them using he/him for Ivan.

Riese: Kit used he/him, and Bette insists on using she/her and I—

Carly: Well, Dawn Denbo insists on using she/her to speak about Ivan.

Riese: Yeah, it was jarring to me, too.

Carly: It felt extremely jarring and very gross. But we don’t have Ivan here to ask for their pronouns.

Riese: I do feel like her character was … I don’t think that they knew when they built the character. I don’t think that they—

Carly: Well, they had no trans people on the writing staff.

Riese: Right, and this was a straight, white cis actress.

Carly: How could they have possibly figured out what gender was?

Riese: Right.

Carly: Anyway, they brought Ivan out, so now Dawn and Cindi own 51% of The Planet, which makes them the primary owners of The Planet. Uh oh.

Riese: Uh oh. Who’s in trouble? Everyone. Kit is going to throw the table now just to show you, you wouldn’t throw the table because your girlfriend of seven years cheated on you, can also throw a table because the owners of a rival lesbian bar bought out your ex person, and now they own your bar.

Carly: Exactly. There’s a plethora of reasons to flip a table.

Riese: Plethora.

Carly: This show really shows several of them.

Riese: Several of them. That’s great.

Carly: That’s really great.

Riese: That’s important, yeah. The only thing is, you need to be careful, Carly, because if glass spills on the floor, you could step on the glass, you could get a piece of glass in your foot. You would have to get your foot taken off.

Carly: Absolutely. That’s the only way to fix a problem like that. The other thing is that you’re opening yourself up to a potential lawsuit.

Riese: You are.

Carly: What if a patron steps on the glass?

Riese: Has to get their foot taken off.

Carly: But maybe that’s a good thing, because if Dawn and Cindi are the owners of The Planet now—

Riese: They have to pay up for that lawsuit.

Carly: They’re going to kind of be the ones on the hook for that lawsuit. So maybe — maybe it’s a good plan to knock all the breakable glass, ceramic, et cetera items. Hot coffees, hot teas.

Riese: Yes.

Carly: This sounds really bad for people. It could result in injury. However, maybe it’s a tactic by Kit to destroy The Planet as she has just lost control of it.

Riese: Exactly. On that note, if Dawn and Cindi would like to buy 51% of Autostraddle, they can call me.

Carly: Now, I’ve never been involved in a corporate buyout of any kind, but I wonder if it’s even possible for someone to sell their shares of something, make that transaction, and in no way are the other shareholders involved.

Riese: Unless that was part of the shareholder’s agreement—

Carly: Oh, got it.

Riese: … or of their operating agreement or whatever. But there’s absolutely no reason why their operating agreement would not give Kit any participation in these conversations.

Carly: Right? That seems—

Riese: You can’t just—

Carly: … wild.

Riese: I would be surprised, because also, you can put in there as the default that everybody who owns part of the company has a vote about that kind of stuff.

Carly: Right, that’s what I thought.

Riese: But I don’t think they would’ve put in a clause that—

Carly: A clause of silence.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: Oh, the other thing is that everyone’s grumpy and everyone’s like, “You’re PMSing, you’re PMSing, you’re PMSing.”

Riese: Girls. Periods.

Carly: And then at one point, Max and Kit lean over and whisper to each other that they’re both really glad they don’t get their periods anymore, and I just, I don’t know. I really enjoyed that.

Max: I’m so glad I don’t have to go through that anymore.
Kit: I second that emotion.

Carly: I thought that was a cute little moment. It was cute. The way they shot it was great. It was like a french over. It was just really nice. Kit’s obviously not thrilled by this new information.

Riese: She’s not.

Carly: But you know what? Before we can even get into that, Jodi shows up.

Riese: What do we have here, folks? We have some twinning. We have some hard core lesbian twinning.

Carly: Oh, boy do we ever. Now, this had to have been on purpose.

Riese: Abso-fucking-lutely.

Carly: This could not have been an accident. What are they saying here? What are they saying? Are they saying that these two characters are too much alike to be in a relationship?

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Carly: How could we interpret this decision?

Riese: Bette’s outfit is better.

Carly: Bette’s outfit is better. Correct.

Riese: It’s also identical. There’s a cute split screen of Bette because Kamala Harris—

Carly: Kamala Harris, yes.

Riese: … wore a similar outfit. Yeah.

Carly: Oh, I have seen that image.

Riese: Yeah, but they’re both … So you’ve all seen that split screen. And then Jodi’s outfit is the same color blouse, the same color suit. It’s just like a slightly different blouse and different suit. I don’t think Jodi’s is tailored as well.

Carly: No.

Riese: I don’t know what that’s supposed to do for us.

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: Although, Jodi’s always been kind of like an “eh” dresser. She just kind of throws on her graphic tees.

Carly: She’s never super cared too much about her fashion and her style. I feel like she communicates with the world through her art.

Riese: She’s an artist!

Carly: You know?

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: She doesn’t really have the mental capacity.

Riese: No.

Carly: Like, “I’m thinking about my art so much that I don’t even have—”

Riese: Art, art, art.

Carly: “… a section of my brain available to—”

Riese: Do fashion.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: Tina’s like, “I’m so sorry, Jodi.” And Jodi’s like …

Jodi: Why is she talking to me? Doesn’t she know I’m deaf?

Riese: That was …

Carly: Jodi is so funny. I loved that.

Jodi in the Planet talking to Bette, Tina behind her worried

Riese: Jodi wants to spend some time together with Bette. She thinks they should spend some time together. Bette has to reschedule her meeting with Phyllis. And then Jodi’s like, “You don’t have to.” And then Bette says, “No, I want to. This is the most important thing in the world to me.”

Carly: This is just the first of many lies Bette tells in this episode that are all very confusing.

Riese: Yeah. I knew what she meant, but I thought it was also very clear that Jodi did not know what she meant.

Carly: Correct. It felt extremely misleading.

Riese: Yeah. It’s also very hyperbolic.

Carly: Yes.

Riese: Because she’s talking about her friendship with Jodi.

Carly: Yes.

Riese: But also, I think a few things are more important to Bette than her friendship with Jodi. For example, banging Tina. Art.

Carly: Breaking up with Jodi is probably more important than her friendship with Jodi.

Riese: Modern art.

Carly: Angelica, more important, I think.

Riese: Her daughter, yeah. Her birth, right. Angelica.

Carly: They go to leave together and they’re walking up to Bette’s fancy Lexus. I don’t know if you saw this, but they’re walking down the street and there is an extra outside who’s on the phone and drinking a coffee, and they are doing the most. Once again, we have an incredible extra moment.

Bette on the phone

Riese: I didn’t see it! I didn’t see it. Oh my God.

Carly: They are in a heated argument—

Riese: I need to do a post of all my favorite extras.

Carly: Yes, oh my God, like a heated argument on the phone, holding—

Riese: Oh my God, I’m going to have to go back and see.

Carly: … a coffee cup from a coffee shop. Maybe from The Planet, who knows?

Riese: I don’t know. I don’t know. What voice was that?

Carly: I don’t know, but I liked it.

Riese: The Planet. Oh my God. Well, I’m going to have to go back and look at that, because you know I love a busy extra.

Carly: I know. You’re going to love it. I was excited when I got that. I was like, Riese is going to love this. So we hop back into The Planet. Now, cool best friends Tina, Shane, Max, cool best friends hanging out, having a chat. We find out that Jenny missed an art department meeting this morning, probably to discuss—

Riese: Uh oh.

Carly: …how disgusting that bowling bedroom is.

Riese: Yeah, or the whole design of that scene.

Carly: How 70s the whole film looks.

Riese: Is this the Teletubbies or is it, you know?

Carly: It’s like a Sesame Street production. But Adele, she went to the meeting in Jenny’s place. That’s interesting!

Riese: Instead of telling Jenny about the meeting, yeah.

Carly: She went to it. That’s not good assistant-ing.

Riese: Yeah. Find a new assistant, Jenny.

Carly: Jenny doesn’t know yet.

Riese: Because—

Carly: Jenny has no idea what’s about to happen to her.

Riese: Adele’s back. Did she fill out a W2 or anything?

Carly: What budget is paying Adele? Is Jenny paying Adele or is the film paying Adele?

Riese: I’m paying Adele.

Carly: Oh, okay. That explains some things, but not all of them.

Riese: Well, we go back to Bette’s apartment.

Carly: Yes.

Riese: Bette is like, “This wasn’t supposed to happen,” which yeah, no one goes into a relationship and they’re like, “I’m definitely going to cheat on this bitch.”

Carly: “I’m definitely going to cheat on you and then have a very dramatic falling out at the end.”

Riese: Okay, right. And then Jodi’s like, “Did you and that woman fuck?”

Carly: That woman.

Riese: That woman.

Carly: That’s great.

Riese: Bette says, “It’s not about fucking.” But her and Tina never finished, and they have history that they need to resolve.

Jodi yelling at Bette

Carly: And that they have a kid together. Like wow, way to blame this on Angelica.

Riese: Yeah, and Jodi’s like, “I know you have a child. Enough.”

Carly: Bette’s crying and sobbing. Jodi’s like, “You don’t get to do this. You don’t get to try to make me feel bad for you right now.”

Riese: Right. Bette says that she loves Tina. She does say that she also loves Jodi.

Carly: That it’s complicated.

Riese: I think Jodi asks her, “Do you think it’s possible to be in love with more than one person?” I personally think it is possible.

Carly: I think it is too. But that’s not what’s happening here.

Riese: But that’s not what’s happening in this situation.

Carly: What’s happening is that Bette is not saying all the words. She is saying, “I love you like a friend, I care about you, but I’m in love with Tina.” But she’s leaving out some prepositions. Jodi says she loves Bette to the exclusion of everyone else, which is a really … why is everyone talking in code here? I guess that’s how we have to get through this because if everybody said what they meant, then they wouldn’t be having a fight anymore. They would just be broken up. But Jodi says she’s going to fight for Bette, which is a terrible idea.

Riese: Yeah, don’t. Also, if Bette’s the cheater, Bette should have to fight for her.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: Anyway, it’s time for House Hunters.

Carly: House Hunters!

Riese: Starring—

Carly: West Hollywood, starring Alice and Tasha. Tasha’s priorities, inexpensive, has a bedroom. Alice’s priorities, in a hot neighborhood.

Riese: Man cave.

Carly: Has a big bedroom, granite countertops.

Riese: Three bed … three beds. Three dens, several parlors, an atrium.

Carly: An outdoor space.

Riese: A fountain out front with mouths of lesbians having water spurt out of them, and then it’s a big fountain, and all around it there’s little tiny tuffs of shrubbery. That’s what Alice wants. She’s looking at an apartment. Tasha says, “This is eight times the cost of my apartment. Eight times.” Oh boy.

Carly: Oh boy.

Riese: Alice says, “It’s fine.” They don’t have to split it down the middle. Tasha says, yes they do. On this note, I would side with Alice.

Carly: I think it’s complicated. I think that when you’ve been together a really long time and you know that everything is stable, I think that it’s fine to side with Alice and I think that just the idea … You kind of start to forget whose money is whose. Maybe you’re married or you’ve been together a really long time. But I think with these two, they’re coming from really different places, emotionally, psychologically, literally. Also in really different parts of their lives. Alice is on the verge of getting a job that would pay her a ton of money, and Tasha essentially is trying to figure out what to do with her life right now. And so, that would create a massive imbalance.

Carly: Also, Alice is talking as if she already has the job and has the money even though she does not already have the job.

Riese: Yeah, that terrifies me.

Carly: That is actually the worst part of this, she’s like, “We can totally afford this really expensive apartment because I’m going to get this job.”

Riese: That is terrifying. The reason I side with Alice is because I think that if Alice has things about the apartment that she wants in the apartment that are more important to her, that she absolutely cannot live without and those things don’t matter to Tasha, then it makes sense for Alice to pay more. If it was an apartment they both picked and they both liked it the same, split it down the middle because you’re right, it should be … that shit can get very complicated and imbalanced. But I think if Alice is insisting on living in a neighborhood that’s nicer than what Tasha is insisting they live on, then it’s fine for Alice to be paying more.

Carly: I do agree with that. I agree with the principal of that, absolutely. Especially as a person with OCD who often has things that matter to them way more than they matter to anybody else, I absolutely get that. I worry about these two because it feels like they haven’t had any conversations about what they’re looking for, what they want, money, where they want to live. It seems like Tasha — we kind of get the sense throughout the episode that Tasha is still really loving Long Beach and she wants to be with Alice. But it’s tough because you want them to compromise. You don’t want Alice to just get her way because she has money and opinions, because that’s gross. There’s some classism going on here for sure as well. We’ll get to it later because it becomes more obvious later. But this is a very complicated situation, and I think if they actually talked about things instead of just going to look at apartments and then getting in fights at the apartments, that maybe this would be a little easier for them.

Riese: Alice says, “I hope you bleed soon. I really do.”

Alice: We don’t have to split the rent exactly down the middle.
Tasha: Yes, we fucking do.
Alice: If I get this job, I’ll be making a lot of money.
Tasha: Alice, can we just please keep looking?
Alice: I hope you bleed soon. I really do.

Carly: More period stuff. It was real themed.

Alice tells Tasha that she hopes she bleeds soon

Riese: Back to Bette’s house.

Carly: No.

Riese: I just want to say this is so gay. The post breakup where both of the people in the breakup are being each other’s emotional support regarding the breakup.

Carly: Yeah, oh God.

Riese: It’s so bad.

Carly: I have been here.

Riese: So have I.

Carly: It is not healthy at all. Also very gay is that Jodi says that she’s mad that she loves Bette so much. She says, “I was fine before I met you,” and then got feelings for Bette and that seems to go against the way Jodi viewed herself prior to meeting Bette. That’s super gay. That’s very gay.

Riese: Yeah. I feel like I understand where that feeling comes from. But they’re dressed the same, so who knows? Jodi starts kissing her, and Bette is resisting and then she gives in, and then Jodi keeps going. Once again, I hate this.

Carly: I hate it so much.

Riese: We’ll address the consent of it all once we get to the next piece of their little, their next scene together.

Carly: Yes, but first we go—

Riese: Firstly—

Carly: … back to set. Tina is in her production office. She drafts a text to Bette and she says, “I hope it’s not too awful. Miss you.” Oh man. Tina, you have no idea what’s going on at your old house right now. But first, Sam, the hot DP, is here. She—

Riese: Is wearing a bandana.

Carly: She’s wearing a bandana. She remains very attractive. Tina tells her she’s pretty worried about the film, which yeah, I would be. I think being worried about this film is the correct feeling to have throughout the entirety of this season.

Riese: But she also says that she thinks it’s a good movie.

Carly: I know. That’s weird. Sam’s like, “I think it’s going to be okay.” She’s like, “Jenny made some really interesting stylistic choices.” I was like, oh, the romper room sets? Tina’s like, “Yeah.”

Riese: Suddenly, they both seem to feel as though this is going to be a good film just in time for it to be torpedoed.

Carly: This is—

Riese: They decide it’s a good film with some good choices.

Carly: They just suddenly — even though Tina started the scene very worried about the film. Yes.

Riese: Anyway, Aaron’s here and he wants Tina in the conference room stat.

Carly: He probably still doesn’t know what her job title is. He’s like, “What are you? A PA?” She’s like, “I’m like the fucking producer.”

Riese: Bandana girl, get out of here. We’re going to the conference room.

Carly: He has never seen Sam before. She’s like, “I’m here literally every day. I’m literally the DP.” So Tina walks in and she’s like, “All right, what now?” And so, we set the stage. This is very dramatic.

Riese: Conference room.

Carly: I wish they had done this more like they did the SheBar shake down, because that would’ve been much funnier. But this is supposed to be serious. We’ve got Aaron, we’ve got Tina. We’ve got Jenny, we’ve got Adele, and we’ve got Nikki’s manager agent people.

Riese: Manager and agent.

Carly: What’s going on? Well, Adele’s going to lead this meeting in her leather pants.

Riese: Adele is going to start off this film festival with a little something she picked up in the Pacific Northwest and show them a short film. She pops it in to the—

Carly: The DVD player.

Riese: … TV. It begins playing. Before we talk about anything, I just want to say that suddenly, this sex tape had a camera man.

Carly: Oh, yeah.

Riese: There’s zooms, there’s pans.

Carly: There’s editing.

Riese: There’s cuts. There’s editing. I’m like, what?

Carly: Here’s what happened.

Riese: It was sitting on a …

Carly: It was not moving.

Riese: It was sitting on a table.

Carly: This is the show’s footage of the sex scene, not the camcorder’s recorded history of what happened. That’s a very interesting choice that they made here that makes absolutely no sense.

Riese: Right. And then it starts playing. Of course, Jenny is like … And Tina is frozen in time. And then they’re like, “We’ve seen enough.” Nikki’s manager gets up and takes it.

Carly: He runs. He runs across the conference room to the DVD player to get the disc, and Adele is like, “Have you seen any movie? I have more than one copy of this.”

Riese: Yeah, I have 25 copies, and here’s who she’s going to sell them to.

Carly: Oh, good. You have the list.

Riese: Letterman, Leno, Oprah, Ellen, FOX, E!, The National Inquirer, Star. This is my favorite part. She’s going to send it to Hola and also to Hello.

Carly: Incredible.

Riese: And to Perez Hilton. I have a question. Whom among these people, whom amongst them would care?

Carly: None.

Riese: National Inquirer maybe?

Carly: Maybe.

Riese: Star?

Carly: She was on the cover of Star, right? As a Lez Girl.

Riese: Yeah, Perez Hilton.

Carly: Perez would care.

Riese: I think it was just — is Oprah generally in the business of sex tapes? Airing sex tapes on her show?

Carly: And D-list celebrity salacious stories? No. That’s not really her thing. It’s not Ellen’s thing either.

Riese: No.

Carly: Ellen’s thing is dancing around with white teens and giving them money. And being mean to everyone that works for her.

Riese: E!, is Leno, Letter-

Carly: None of them care.

Riese: Yeah, they’re all going to be like, “Another DVD from this bitch? She’s constantly trying to get us to show this shit.” Because who knows where Adele even came from.

Adele watching Jenny and Nikki's sex tape

Carly: I like the idea that Adele has been sending them DVDs for months of just random things she films.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah, Adele is A, basically. And then, ew, barf. Adele is like, “I just wouldn’t want something like this to ruin—”

Carly: Oh my God.

Riese: “… This beautiful film that I care about so much and this really important story.”

Carly: Like, “Oh my God, I really don’t want to have to do this, you guys. This film has the opportunity to change hearts and minds. And Jenny’s so bad at her job.” Then Jenny’s like, “I’m going to call Willam and I’m going to straighten this out.” William. “I’m going to call William and straighten this out.”

Riese: Will.i.am. I’m going to call Will.i.am and straighten this out.

Carly: I said Willam like the drag queen. I’m going to call William.

Riese: Okay. I’m going to call Willow.

Carly: I would call Will. He would handle it. So Jenny’s like, “Okay, I’m going to call William.” And Adele’s like, “Oh, that’s so funny because I already talked to him and he actually agrees with her.” Everyone’s like, “Okay, now what? Clearly, you’re about to blackmail us. What do you want?” But they don’t tell us yet.

Riese: Also, okay.

Carly: This is—

Riese: Just as a side note.

Carly: … bonkers.

Riese: This film would be very bad news for Nikki as a public persona. It would not be bad for the film.

Carly: No, it would not.

Riese: It would have no bearing whatsoever on anyone’s interest in viewing the film.

Carly: If anything, it would make people maybe want to see the film more, which would be very disappointing for them when they realize that the sex tape is much more interesting than this fucking movie.

Riese: Yeah, the sex tape is definitely better than the film. But it’s one of the best L Word sex scenes of all time. That’s going to help you.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: It’s so much better than Lez Girls.

Carly: So much better than Lez Girls.

Riese: It’s great. It’s perfect.

Carly: You should just edit it into the film.

Riese: God, no one understands anything.

Carly: I know. They don’t get it. And so, Adele’s just like, blah, blah, blah. Tina’s like, “What do you want?” This whole—

Riese: What is it you want?

Carly: This whole thing is so ridiculous. This would never happen.

Riese: No.

Carly: This is incredulous.

Riese: My least favorite thing in the world, in the whole universe, worse than everything that’s ever happened, is blackmail as a plot device.

Carly: Agreed.

Riese: I fucking hate it. It is the entire plot of the show, Elite. It is 50% of Pretty Little Liars. First of all, blackmail is illegal. Second of all, has blackmail ever happened?

Carly: I also have to imagine that Adele is under … anyone working on this film must have signed a nondisclosure agreement.

Riese: NDA.

Carly: So the minute she does anything with this thing, she’s violating her contract. There’s a bunch of legal liability. This studio honestly could destroy her and instead, they’re just like, “Oh, I guess we have to do what she says.” Not to be like, “let’s destroy a girl’s career,” but they could fucking destroy her. People have been destroyed over much less.

Riese: Yeah. Literally, no one has ever actually had a sex tape that ruined their career.

Carly: No, no. They’ve never ruined a career. They’ve started careers.

Riese: Yeah. That is not a great thing that this is our culture.

Carly: No.

Riese: But it also — it shouldn’t ruin careers. Everybody … not everybody, but a lot of people have sex.

Carly: It should not be a big deal at all. Who fucking cares?

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: None of it matters. None of it’s real. I agree, blackmail as a plot device is so overdone and it’s tired.

Riese: It’s tiring.

Carly: It’s honestly exhausting because blackmail begets more blackmail, so you just end up in this constant cycle and you can’t escape it, and it’s so boring. I also hate when suitcases get mixed up.

Riese: Boring.

Carly: When people are traveling, as a plot device. Which I know has been the main engine behind so many great, great pieces of art. But it’s one of my least favorite plot devices as well.

Riese: Yeah. Blackmail is my number one, and my number two is still when someone walks in at the exact moment that someone is being kissed by somebody just before they say, “No, I can’t kiss you.”

Carly: Oh, yes, of course.

Riese: So that person is like, “Oh, they’re cheating on me,” and then they make a life decision based on this—

Carly: Instead of having a conversation.

Riese: Misinterpreted, yes. Right. Anyway, shame on you, The L Word. Speaking of shame on you, The L Word, we go back to Bette’s, where Jodi and Bette are somehow still making out. The phone is ringing. Jodi hangs it up and Jodi is trying to fuck Bette, who — how many times does Bette say, “Stop?”

Carly: A lot. Several?

Riese: Several.

Carly: Several to many. Once again, The L Word gives us a lot of really weird consent stuff that is just fucked.

Riese: And also the way this started was, at best, Bette reluctantly agreeing to make out. It wasn’t like she wanted to in any way or, nor is she in a relationship with Jodi where she’s caring about Jodi’s happiness or whatever in this moment. She’s just, it sucks.

Carly: Yup.

Riese: Especially since Jodi is the good guy here.

Carly: I know.

Riese: And then to have this very forceful—

Carly: Now they’re trying to make her into the bad guy. The show doesn’t want us to care about Jodi. The show wants us to want Bette and Tina to get back together, and this is the couple that is at the center of this fucking show. So Bette’s like, “Please stop. I don’t want to do this with you.” And then Jodi’s like, “Cool, I’m going to kill myself.” So …

Riese: Which again, this is a typical breakup move.

Carly: Yeah, I’ve dated this person before.

Riese: But also, then Bette is like, “I’m not going to let you walk out of here if you’re going to kill yourself.” She’s like, “I’m not really going to kill myself.” I’m just like, oh my God you guys, this is so … It feels real, but in a really annoying way.

Jodi fighting with Bette

Carly: These are adults with jobs and careers.

Riese: Yeah, they are grown adults.

Carly: This is ridiculous behavior for adults. It was bad behavior when I was 19 or 20 and dating someone and we broke up, and she was like, “I’m going to hurt myself and it’s going to be your fault,” and tried to make me feel bad. That was really horrible. Really horrible. We were half the age of the people in this scene.

Riese: Yeah, probably less—

Carly: Less than half.

Riese: More than. Yeah, you know what I mean. Bugger age gap. And then Bette’s like, “I’m not going to turn my back on you and let you hate me.” Bette is still concerned about what—

Carly: Her perception of her.

Riese: … Jodi’s impression of her.

Carly: Oh my God. And then Bette says she’s going to fight for this relationship, which is—

Riese: Again.

Carly: … an actual lie.

Riese: Friendship Bette.

Carly: That’s not even twisting words around and leaving things out. That’s purely a lie because you mean, “I want you to like me as a person and be my friend.” She keeps telling Jodi she has so much respect for her. It’s so gaslight-y. The whole thing is really gaslight-y and terrible. But this is a horrible scene. I hate everything about this scene.

Riese: Yeah. Breakups, they’re horrible. They sure are. You know what else is horrible? Lez Girls, which is where we go back to the set of Lez Girls, and Nikki’s getting touched up for the scene, and then—

Carly: Everyone seems to be working, yet there’s no one in charge.

Riese: In a flurry. Yeah, and then Jenny shows up and wants to tell Nikki what happened, but she’s interrupted by the managers who are like, “Get away from her.” And then Jenny makes her speech that Lauren should put in.

Jenny: I want you guys to know what’s going on here, that these people, they’re treacherous and they’re soulless and they’re trying to ruin this movie.
Nikki’s Manager: Okay, that’s enough. All right, somebody call security right now.
Jenny: Give me a second.
Nikki’s Manager: Security please.
Jenny: Wait!
Tina: Okay, just give me one second with her.
Jenny: If anybody has any integrity, come with me. Okay? You can come with me. You can stand up to these people.

Riese: But what I found interesting is that she doesn’t actually explain what happened. She asks people to come with her, but she doesn’t even explain why she’s leaving. She doesn’t explain anything.

Carly: This is like a misguided Jerry Maguire situation.

Riese: Right, yeah. And then she’s like … yeah, and Shane is the goldfish I guess.

Carly: Yeah, Shane’s for sure the goldfish.

Riese: She’s like, “Who is coming with me? Who is coming with me?” Truly, her very good, deeply loyal, loving friend, Shane is like …

Shane: I’m with you.

Riese: That is very kind of Shane to do.

Carly: It is.

Riese: Tina would like to walk her out.

Carly: Yeah, because Aaron keeps screaming for security, which is laughable because, as we know, their set has no security. There’s two white guys—

Riese: Yeah, we’ve been through this already.

Carly: Old white guy extras in little security outfits show up, and it’s just ridiculous.

Riese: What if they’ve been security strippers and they’d be like bow bow bow and then they took off their security outfits.

Carly: One of them has a boom box and they have tearaway pants.

Riese: Yeah, and everyone goes, “Party time. Just kidding.”

Carly: It would be awesome.

Riese: Jenny pleads again for Nikki to come with her, and her team reminds her that she is under contract.

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: Who’s the director now, Carly?

Carly: Unfortunately, Adele is now the director.

Riese: Another first-time director here.

Carly: I want to die.

Riese: Can’t wait to see how she interprets the material.

Carly: I get it, it’s a TV show and it’s a soap, it’s dramatic. But this is ridiculous. This is so ridiculous.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: Also, yeah, of course Nikki’s under a contract and her reps are standing right there. She’s not going to go with you. And you haven’t really made a very good case to get her to go with you because no one knows what’s going on.

Jenny on set of "Lez Girls" telling Tina she has to get off the set

Riese: Yeah, you haven’t explained it. No one knows what’s happening.

Carly: Nikki doesn’t know what happened.

Riese: For all they know, you volunteered to leave.

Carly: For all you know, you’re just on a whim, yeah.

Riese: Yeah, you have to explain yourself.

Carly: You got to wheel that little TV cart in there with the DVD player and play the sex tape for the whole cast and crew.

Riese: Exactly. And be like, “Okay, everyone, true or false, this is a great sex scene and everybody would love it.”

Carly: They’d be like, “This is great.”

Riese: And everyone will be like, “Yeah, that’s pretty good.”

Carly: “Can you put this in the film?”

Riese: “This is really good.”

Carly: And then Jenny’s like, “I’m going to be in the film now.”

Riese: “Yeah, let’s sell it.”

Carly: “I’m playing Karina.”

Riese: Myself. Oh, yeah, Jenny was like Karina, yeah.

Carly: This is just wild.

Riese: Wild.

Carly: Wild. Okay, so now back with House Hunters International, LA edition. Alice and Tasha are again, they’re in another apartment, right?

Riese: Yeah. Yeah.

Carly: They are still arguing. Tasha, again, says that she thinks the relationship’s balance will be messed up if Alice pays more rent than she does. Alice then says that she refuses to live in this shit hole.

Riese: Yeah, she said, “It’ll be out of balance if you make me live in this shit hole.”

Carly: Now, they are in the apartment viewing it. The person who is renting it is there. Alice says it’s gross. This is really gross. Also, I think that I do … This is clearly like, your partner is telling you that they do not want to be in a situation where the balance of the relationship in terms of money is off. You have to respect that.

Riese: Right, but Alice doesn’t want to live where Tasha wants to live.

Carly: Right.

Riese: They just shouldn’t move in together.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: Because I think they both have valid desires about where they want to live.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely.

Riese: It’s not the same, so they should wait until they’re at a different point in their lives. Another thing is — this is so dumb, but logistically, they’d need to wait for Tasha to get a job, or else they won’t be approved for the apartment to begin with.

Carly: That’s true!

Riese: But they should wait. Alice and Tasha are both at junctures in their careers. They don’t know what’s going to happen next. They should wait and figure out what their new careers are going to be, what their new salaries are going to be, and what their relationship is going to look like. They just recently got back together. And then they can decide to move in together. They’re clearly not ready to move in together.

Carly: That is very clear and I agree. And also, Alice is like, “I have to go to my taping.” And Tasha’s like, “Cool, I’m going to go hang out with my friends in Long Beach.” And then she’s like, “Oh, you’re not coming to my taping?” It’s like, do these two ever talk to each other?

Riese: No, just when we’re watching.

Carly: God, this is frustrating. Get a Google calendar. Jesus Christ.

Riese: Then we go back to the studio lot where it’s Tina and Jenny. I think that this scene was improvised and it was not done very well.

Carly: That tracks.

Riese: Tina is like, “Don’t retaliate. Get your agents to help you. This isn’t over.” Jenny says Nikki’s dead to her. Tina is like, “I’m going to fix it. There’s no way I’m going to let this bitch walk away with our movie.” Jenny’s like, “It is our movie,” and then they hug. And then they have sex. Just kidding. No, but speaking of sex.

Carly: Speaking of sex.

Riese: We go back to the set.

Carly: We go back to set where two people who hate each other are trying to shoot a sex scene.

Riese: Relatable for many actresses out there.

Carly: Totally. This is the most realistic thing about this film, is that two actors who hate each other have to play lovers.

Riese: Lovers. Vaguely European lovers.

Carly: Nikki’s obviously distracted by everything that is happening, and so Adele becomes the creepiest director. It’s so creepy.

Riese: Were we supposed to think she was doing a good job?

Carly: Maybe. I was trying to figure that out too. Does the show want us to contrast this against Jenny’s more frantic style of directing, where Adele is more confident and direct?

Riese: “Part your lips.”

Carly: And she has a very specific vision. But she is coming across as such a fucking creep.

Adele directing "Lez Girls" like a creep

Riese: Yeah. And also, she doesn’t pay attention to the fact that Begoña is just shifting her arms up and down over and over again as a move. But it keeps going. It’s the way that you see in a movie, the first part of a kiss going. But when it kept happening, it was distracting.

Carly: It’s going on forever. It’s like, what? Are we stuck in a loop? Are we stuck in this kissing loop?

Riese: Yeah, we are. This is Speed. If we could once again bring it back to Speed. We’re on a tape in Speed, and Sandra Bullock is here and so is Keanu Reeves, so watch out.

Carly: Watch the fuck out.

Riese: They’re all going with Jenny.

Carly: They’re all out of here.

Riese: Tina’s calling Bette. She leaves her a little VM for latra. That’s a word I just made up.

Carly: Voicemail for later.

Riese: It means later.

Carly: I knew. I knew what you meant.

Riese: A voicemail for later. A little later, a little mail for later.

Carly: Guess where we are now? We’re at The Look!

Riese: The Look!

Carly: The Look, and we are live. Alice has to teach these dumb bitch hosts what femme and butch are. Oh boy.

Riese: Because we’ve got a new super hot designer who put together an androgynous menswear inspired collection.

Carly: “Please welcome Clea Mason to the show!”

Riese: Woo!

Mary: Fashion designer, Clea Mason, who won the prize for the best new designer at last year’s Gen Art Fashion show.
Alice: That’s right, and she’s here today to present her super hot, super androgenous menswear influenced fall collection.
Mary: Just your style, huh Alice?
Alice: Well actually, Mary, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but I’m actually pretty much a femme, yeah.
Mary: Femme?
Alice: Oh, yeah, totally girly girl, dresses, girlish pumps. Thank you. But bring on those boyish babes and their hot butch fall fashion, huh? Woo!
Mary: Spare us, Alice.

Carly: Alice tells the host that all the straight girls want to try it, and they look at her and tell her that not everyone is gay and she says—

Mary: And thank God for that.

Carly: And they immediately go to a commercial break even though this was the opening of the show.

Riese: She still has that hair.

Carly: Yeah, that windswept bitch.

Riese: Which, I need to see it from behind.

Carly: I know.

Riese: I need to see it from behind.

Carly: I have to assume it’s just a collection of clips holding everything together.

Riese: It’s got to be a little nest back there.

Carly: Some birds.

Alice is on "The Look" with her co-hosts, one of whom is claiming that not everyone is gay

Riese: Anyway, Alice is doing a great job. She’s going to be a star. Maybe one day she’ll have her own show that’ll almost get canceled.

Carly: I hope one day she has a show called The Aloce Show.

Riese: Me too. What a dream.

Carly: What a dream. We’ll never know. We’ll never know what’s going to happen.

Riese: We’ll never know. Back at The Planet.

Carly: Oh my God.

Riese: Kit is pacing.

Carly: She’s pacing.

Riese: She pulls out her gun.

Carly: She loads it.

Riese: Why?

Carly: Why?

Riese: Why?

Carly: Kit.

Riese: For what?

Carly: Let me get this straight.

Riese: What?

Carly: Kit’s reaction to these horrible, horrible people buying out her venue from under her, which shouldn’t have happened, is to shoot them? Is that the plan?

Riese: I guess. I guess.

Carly: We get moments of Kit in a trench coat, walking around, being a badass. But the context of it is horrible.

Riese: She loads it.

Carly: She loads the—

Riese: She loads it with multiple bullets.

Carly: She’s getting ready, for a plan she has not really thought out very well because it would be very obvious who shot them immediately in broad daylight.

Riese: Yeah, she bought the gun at a gun store and the bullets. It’s registered in her name. It’ll have her fingerprints all over it.

Carly: What?

Riese: Here’s the question that we, I think, at home are supposed to be asking ourselves: What’s better? Having Dawn and Cindi own 51% of your coffee shop/event venue/podcast stage? Or being in jail for murder?

Carly: I know which one I would choose.

Riese: Yeah, well, we did see jail earlier in this season.

Carly: They made it look great.

Riese: I didn’t care for it. Yeah, I didn’t care for it. I’d like to stay out of that. And then also, to have to deal your whole life with knowing you murdered someone.

Carly: Perhaps two someones.

Riese: No one wants to do that. You guys, murder is bad.

Carly: I would like to say that To L and Back is anti-murder.

Riese: Anti-murder.

Carly: That’s the stance we’ve taken. We go back to the androgynous fashion show at The Look, which is fully happening. Is one of these models Villanelle?

Riese: Wait, really?

Carly: One of them looks so much like Jodie Comer. The one in the pink bomber jacket looks like her.

Riese: Yeah. Basically, we’ve got Little Debbie, we’ve got The Pink Ladies. I don’t know about this collection.

Carly: This collection is a little weird. Although, who doesn’t love a Vespa on a stage? They’re just zipping around in Vespas.

Riese: Would you wear these fashions?

Carly: I would not. I would not wear these fashions.

Riese: No? Hmm, interesting.

Carly: Would you?

Riese: Then they drive off.

Carly: Interesting.

Riese: They drive off in their motorcycles?

Carly: On their Vespas, and then they introduce the designer, Clea Mason, who’s played by the legendary Melanie Lynsky.

Riese: Melanie Lynsky.

Carly: We love you, Melanie Lynsky.

Riese: She has been in But I’m a Cheerleader,Itty Bitty Titty Committee, Heavenly Creatures,The Intervention, Mrs. America. This is a woman who has some experience playing a woman who cares for other women in a sexual way.

Carly: Yes. She is great.

Riese: However, her character, Clea Mason, is allegedly a fashion designer and she is wearing a terrible, terrible idea on her body.

Carly: All of these fashions are a terrible idea, honestly.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: These are not good.

Riese: Hers is more subtle, you know?

Clea Mason says "Like a 14-year-old boy" on The Look

Carly: Yes, yes.

Riese: The ones she’s wearing on herself. But it’s subtly offensive to fashion.

Carly: It’s no vest you could gig in, but it is not good.

Riese: No. It’s very, does have the Mikey’s fashion week, LA fashion week vibe.

Carly: It has the real tented cardstock vibe.

Riese: Yeah, it has a tented vibe.

Carly: Just tent anything.

Riese: I love a cardstock vibe.

Carly: Oh, I know. Me too. Who doesn’t?

Riese: Clea is this nervous little Nellie up there. She’s like, “Hee, hee, hee.” She has an accent. It’s very sexy.

Carly: She’s the most awkward person on camera of all time.

Riese: Alice is like, “What do you want women to wear under their clothes?” She says, “I like boxers and briefs because it’s liberating to feel like a 14-year-old boy.”

Carly: Yikes.

Riese: “Or lingerie.” So basically anything. That’s all …

Carly: Yes.

Riese: She wants people to wear underwear of any style beneath her clothes. Who …

Carly: She doesn’t have a lot of opinions.

Riese: What? She doesn’t have a lot of opinions, no.

Carly: She doesn’t seem to have a stance on anything.

Riese: No, she doesn’t have a stance. She couldn’t even decide whether she was going to wear half a shirt or an entire shirt.

Carly: Both!

Riese: She just did three shirts at once in a way that was, again, I feel completely dismantled. I don’t know who else did.

Carly: This is the most awkward interview and Alice is trying so hard to—

Riese: Alice is having a great time.

Carly: Alice is having a great time. She’s translating everything Clea says into gay. They’re flirting awkwardly. There’s so much extended eye contact. Alice is kind of crushing it. She saves this interview.

Riese: Yeah, she does.

Carly: The two other hosts don’t know what the fuck to talk about, and Clea’s, like, way too anxious.

Riese: No, they’re upset that this is even happening. Even though they’re both wearing menswear-inspired outfits that, honestly, are somewhat similar to Bette and Jodi’s, if I recall correctly.

Carly: Incredible. A lot of interesting choices are being made.

Riese: This a quickie, Tina just tells Shane she can go, she can go be with Jenny. Shane says, “Fuck Nikki, she’s terrible,” which is—

Carly: I actually don’t agree with the “fuck Nikki” thing here. I don’t think Nikki has done anything wrong. There was no opportunity for them to have a real conversation about what happened, so Nikki actually maybe doesn’t even know what’s going on. She couldn’t leave because she was under contract. I think Jenny was in a heightened, dramatic state and wasn’t really thinking. Why could Nikki not just go be with her when they wrapped for the day and they could have time to talk and figure things out? But instead it’s like, fuck her. And I’m like, really? I don’t know. I don’t think she did anything wrong. I’m not trying to be a Nikki apologist. I don’t think she’s that great, but I don’t think in this — from what we’ve seen — that she did anything terrible.

Riese: That’s fair.

Carly: I sense you disagree.

Riese: I just don’t like her because she was flirting with Shane.

Carly: Yeah, I know. I also just don’t really like Nikki.

Riese: This episode.

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, that’s why I don’t like her. Yeah, you’re right, she didn’t really do anything bad this time. She doesn’t know what’s going on.

Carly: Yeah, she’s just, everyone’s—

Riese: But if she knew what was going on, then she could actually maybe change it by refusing to do the film.

Carly: Exactly. Like, “I won’t be in this film unless—”

Riese: And then they would … but it’s already episode 511, so they need to wrap it up.

Carly: They got to wrap it up. That’s where we’re at.

Riese: Jodi and Bette are stuck in traffic.

Carly: They both look so miserable.

Riese: That’s great. Being stuck in traffic when you’re in a fight is great.

Carly: It’s the best. Then Kit pulls up outside of SheBar and leaves a voicemail for Bette.

Kit: Bette, I’m in trouble. I’m going to do something bad.

Carly: Well, you already …

Riese: Girl.

Carly: Now it’s premeditated, so now you’re looking at murder one. Come on.

Riese: She left a voicemail on Bette’s phone.

Carly: Proving that it was premeditated.

Riese: Like, “I’m going to do something bad.”

Carly: Everyone’s doing everything wrong right now.

Riese: Oh my God. Everyone needs to think about their lives and think about their choices. Except Kit does not need to think about her coat choice because her coat was cool.

Carly: Her coat was cool. Her car is cool. I just don’t want her to kill anybody.

Riese: Yeah, me neither. I think killing, again, is bad, and people shouldn’t do it. That applies for season six as well. Just keep that in mind in the back of your pocket book, in your head space. Anyway, back to the CAC. My best friend, James—

Carly: It’s not the CAC, it’s Carly University.

Riese: Back to Carly University. I had put CAC. She hops around employers so much, it’s hard to keep track.

Carly: Honestly, it’s still art. It’s still similar letters.

Riese: Yeah, exactly. California, Carly. Similar.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: Back at Carly University…

Carly: The Carly Art Center.

Riese: James rescheduled some stuff, he couldn’t reschedule some other stuff.

Carly: Phyllis is in Sacramento.

Riese: Surprise, W Magazine … Yeah, Phyllis, why?

Carly: Really important stuff here. Phyllis is in Sacramento.

Riese: Maybe she’s going to the California State Fair. It was really fun in Sacramento. Because I had one of the best weekends of my life there.

Carly: Oh my God, wow. Maybe that’s where Phyllis is.

Riese: Yeah, it was really fun.

Jodi and Bette talking to James outside of Bette's office

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: Maybe she’s like me, falling in love with someone who will eventually ruin her life.

Carly: Maybe.

Riese: Then we go … Maybe, maybe. Just maybe.

Carly: Maybe she’s with Joyce.

Riese: Have a good time, girl. Have a good time.

Carly: Oh my God.

Riese: W Magazine, which is Bette’s favorite magazine, which checks out 10,000%. W Magazine is so sort of pretentious that it’s too big for me to take to the gym. It’s—

Carly: Physically too large.

Riese: At the time, it was, yeah. This is for your coffee table, period.

Carly: Yeah, it’s not a magazine that travels.

Riese: No.

Carly: You’re not going to take that on a flight.

Riese: Anyway, they are doing some story where they want Bette and Jodi to be in power couples for art because the Ellen story that they recently did sold really well, which is true and I remember it. She was wet. She was wearing clothes that were — it was like a light blue shirt.

Carly: Oh my God.

Riese: She was wet, sort of, for some reason. Do you remember this at all?

Carly: Vaguely.

Riese: I feel like those are — where there’s these shots of her sitting on a chair in black and white, but also … God, I can see it in my mind. But, well …

Carly: So, Bette loves W Magazine, which is absolutely in character for her.

Riese: Yeah. Jodi says that yes, of course they’ll do it. They’ll do the magazine.

Carly: Bette’s like, “We absolutely will not do the magazine.” And then Bette’s like, “Whatever, I’m going to my meeting,” and just goes to her meeting.

Riese: “Bye.” Leaving Jodi alone to read her diary. Back on The Look…

Carly: They’re doing an online voting that you can go and vote if you want Alice to join the cast permanently. I think that’s a great idea. I wish we could all vote right now for Alice to be on The Look.

Riese: Yeah, she needs to be sending her friends to the Apple store to vote on every computer.

Carly: Yeah, that’s probably what she did. But we didn’t get that scene. Maybe it’s a deleted scene.

Riese: Yeah, maybe that’s what Max is doing today. He’s at the computer lab at Carly University, voting on every single computer for The Look.

Carly: That’s absolutely where he is until we see him soon.

Riese: Yeah. The Look, right. So Clea is sort of flirting with Alice.

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: And invites her to their fashion show, which they’re going to do at the Venice canals. Which, okay.

Carly: Sure.

Riese: And also offers to take her on a scooter ride.

Carly: Hot.

Riese: But she already has a girlfriend who has a two-wheeled vehicle.

Carly: She’s got a motorcycle ride.

Riese: Her name is Tasha.

Carly: Not a Vespa ride.

Riese: She’s got a motorcycle.

Carly: And guess what? Tasha’s here.

Riese: She’s here. Oh my God.

Carly: Oh my God, so sweet but also I’m like, I just want Tasha to be able to have her own life and her own personality and still be in this relationship. Did you happen to notice the way all of the extras that were playing the audience, how they were styled?

Riese: No.

Carly: It was like Midwestern mom city.

Riese: Oh, cute!

Carly: It’s very funny. It’s very Republican wives meeting for brunch. It’s a look. It’s a choice and a look.

Riese: I have a lot that I missed this episode, I need to look back at.

Carly: Yeah, it was a lot. We go back to school.

Riese: Back to school time.

Carly: After the meeting, Bette’s back in her office with Jodi.

Riese: Jodi’s in there playing with all her toys.

Carly: Yeah. Was she on Bette’s computer? I thought that that was maybe Bette’s computer that she was on also?

Riese: Was she?

Carly: Which I thought was very funny.

Riese: I wish she’d been in there with silly string and a bucket of popcorn.

Carly: Just fucking it up? Yeah.

Riese: “Sorry, I moved in, I’m having so much fun. Drinking a hard cider.”

Carly: Oh, man, just wilding out.

Riese: Wilding out, yeah.

Carly: Bette finally says real things.

Riese: Clarifies.

Carly: And is like, “Yes, this isn’t working. We’re not a couple. We can’t be in W Magazine.” Also though, she only finally really has this conversation when maybe we’re going to be in W Magazine becomes a reality and not … which is convenient.

Riese: Well, yeah.

Carly: She’s like, “I meant that I was going to fight for our friendship.”

Riese: And Jodi’s like, “I don’t want to be friends.”

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: And then classic, classic next move in an unexpected lesbian breakup, you suggest—

Carly: Couples therapy.

Riese: Therapy.

Carly: She says, “Let’s get a good therapist, unlike some people, Dan.”

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “I don’t want to go to therapy. I’ve been in enough therapy,” which is not true. She has not been in enough therapy.

Carly: No.

Bette says "I don't want to go to therapy"

Riese: But also, obviously she doesn’t want to and it’s good. Bette is finally just being like, “I obviously have to be really clear here.”

Carly: Yes.

Riese: And then she explains, as discussed in the elevator episode, that they are fundamentally different. They have different core values.

Carly: And then Jodi says, “What are my core values?”

Riese: What?

Carly: And Bette says, “It doesn’t matter. It’s not a judgment.” What? What?

Riese: I want Bette to be like, “I see the beauty in things.”

Carly: And what do you see, Jodi? Also the beauty in things? Oh.

Riese: And Jodi’s like, “I’m wearing your exact outfit. Obviously, I also see the beauty in things.”

Carly: “I’m an artist. You work around art.”

Riese: “I’m an artist, bitch. Yeah, I built an entire jungle gym and then I put 10 more jungle gyms on it, and then I put it inside a warehouse, and then I fucked you on it.”

Carly: Remember that?

Riese: “That’s art.”

Carly: Remember how to drink it up.

Riese: All right, read a fact. Find a book.

Carly: Get the DVDs of this show and educate yourself.

Riese: Yeah, get the DVDs and learn a thing. Learn a fact.

Carly: But Bette’s saying, “We have different core values,” and then when Jodi asks her to clarify that, saying, “It doesn’t matter,” is honestly peak Bette Porter and is deeply funny and just, wow. Because they’ve been throwing that phrase around and I don’t think anyone really gave any thought to what it means. You’re just not in love with her and you want to get back with your ex. Just fucking say that. You have a kid together. You have history. It’s easier.

Riese: Yeah. They do. I think they do have different core values though. I think Bette is much more traditional.

Carly: Yes. Yes.

Riese: She’s more family focused. She’s more—

Carly: Focus on the family.

Riese: Yeah, she focused on family if, you know what I mean with that. She likes to plan her parenthood. Yeah, she’s a little bit more … I think Jodi’s values are more, she values exploration and curiosity and adventure, whereas Bette more values success and family.

Carly: Money, status, family.

Riese: Money, status.

Carly: Traditional gender roles.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. And Tina.

Carly: Tina.

Riese: World’s most successful paper plate. She says they’ve been trying but they will never find it. And Jodi’s like, “How do you know we’ll never find it?” And she’s like, “Because I have it with someone else.” Ouch.

Carly: But true.

Riese: But true.

Carly: I also thought that at this moment in the conversation, Bette looked really, really pretty as she’s fully breaking Jodi’s heart. The worst is when she looks the best. I was like, “Damn.” She smiles at one point, and I was like, oh my God, I forgot how attractive you are. Yeah. But then our best friend, James, pops in at the best possible moment and he’s like …

James: I’m sorry to interrupt, but Melissa just called.

Bette: Is everything okay?

James: Well, she has food poisoning or something and she can’t pick up Angie for her play date.

Carly: Who is Melissa? I guess she’s the person that watches Angie?

Riese: The manny. Melissa, the manny.

Carly: I love that that fucking thing was such an important storyline that took up such a long time, and we don’t even get to know who the fuck this is—

Riese: So us, Melissa.

Carly: … and where the kid is.

Riese: We want to meet Melissa. We want to meet your friends. We have a relationship with you, Bette and Tina. We’ve been spending a lot of time together and we haven’t met your goddamned nanny.

Carly: I’m just saying.

Riese: That makes me wonder if we’re still real friends.

Carly: I worry we’re not. I feel like this is all for show. But—

Riese: Yeah. We’ve seen you have sex like seven times. Shows us your nanny. What are you trying to hide?

Carly: I just think that …

Riese: Is she a Republican?

Carly: Oh, is that what it is? Anyway, Melissa, the Republican, can’t pick Angie up for her play date or whatever.

Riese: She has food poisoning, which is a lie.

Carly: No one—

Riese: Unless I tell it because I get food poisoning all the time. Unless it’s me.

Carly: If anyone tells you—

Riese: I do get food poisoning all the time.

Carly: You do get food poisoning a lot.

Riese: I am so easy to poison. Poison me.

Carly: If you wanted to take Riese out…

Riese: Everyone should poison me.

Carly: … just poison her.

Riese: Poison.

Carly: She wouldn’t even—

Riese: Yeah, poison me.

Carly: She wouldn’t even know something was wrong.

Riese: Although … I wouldn’t. But I have cut out a lot of food groups because at one point, they poisoned me. So good luck finding one I still have on the roster.

Carly: She loves pizza, just saying. So Bette takes—

Riese: TT’s office.

Carly: We have a bunch of the actresses from the film here and they’re pissed. “We did not sign on to do an Adele Channing movie.” I’m like, yeah, no one did.

two actresses in Tina's office are wondering what's going on

Riese: They did not.

Carly: No one’s ever heard of her.

Riese: Correct.

Carly: But also, you signed on to do a Jennifer Schecter film? All right, sure.

Riese: What?

Carly: You knew who that was?

Riese: You liked young talent yesterday, and now that it’s just like a different type of psychotic bitch, now you don’t like it anymore? Come on, ladies.

Carly: Come on. Get with it. Internalize misogyny.

Riese: Laurel Holloman did not memorize one single line for this entire episode. Every time she speaks, she is trying—

Carly: To remember what she—

Riese: … to react to whatever the other character said, but not remember what she is supposed to say because she has no memory of what she’s supposed to say. I love this for her. I love this for all of us.

Carly: I think everyone should just forget their lines in this show and it would be more interesting.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: Tina’s like, “Look, this happens all the time and you have to just roll with it.” Which is true. Directors get replaced, writers get replaced, and the actors if they’re under contract, probably will just have to deal with it.

Riese: They sure will. If I was an actor on the show, I’d be like, “Just show me the sec tape.”

Carly: I know. I’d be like, “Has anyone talked about why this all, why Jenny got fired?” There’s rumors that Shane quit, there’s rumors that Adele is going to fire Nikki. Oh my God.

Riese: Rumors, rumors.

Carly: But you know what?

Riese: This is just like the Lindsay Lohan song, “Rumors.”

Carly: Exactly. I’m tired. You know what? I am tired of rumors starting.

Riese: Yes.

Carly: I’m also—

Riese: Why don’t they just let me—

Carly: Live?

Riese: Live, live.

Carly: I think I honestly — what I would do if I was Tina, I would be like, “You need to take this for just what it is.” That’s what I would tell them. And to stop spreading rumors and following me around.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: No more lying. Don’t say what you want about me.

Riese: It all comes around because as aforementioned, at some point in the past of our lives, that I personally heard or maybe invented that Nikki was based on Lindsay Lohan.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: As you can see, it all comes around.

Carly: And then I took that as fact.

Riese: It all comes around, it all goes around.

Carly: And have just been saying it not realizing my only source was Riese.

Riese: I got it from somewhere. It didn’t come just from my own noggin, even though a lot of good ideas do though.

Carly: It’s true. You do have a lot of good ideas.

Riese: I do, but no follow through. Bette calls Tina. Actually, I guess I have some follow through. Okay. Bette calls Tina about the Playgirl?

Carly: About Angelica.

Riese: The play group.

Carly: Angelica. What’s she going to do?

Riese: She’s going to have to walk home by herself. How is she going to do that?

Carly: She’s a toddler.

Riese: I don’t know. Back to the mean streets of West Hollywood where Kit is just skulking around in the—

Carly: I wrote “skulking around.”

Riese: Skulking. Skulking around.

Carly: I love the phrase, skulking around. I say it as often as possible.

Riese: It’s what she’s doing.

Carly: She’s skulking.

Riese: That is a skulk—

Carly: If ever I’ve seen one.

Riese: That is a deep skulk.

Carly: She’s skulking around outside the back entrance of SheBar. She’s just fully standing in the doorway. She’s behind a beaded curtain that is transparent. This is so funny. What she sees is a moment where Cindi looks miserable with Dawn, and then the captions say that Kit is seething.

Riese: Seething.

Carly: Seething. Does that means she’s the seether? Because I was always told that the seether is Louise. That’s a very niche joke.

Riese: They should’ve played that song and been like, do you relate to this?

Carly: Yeah, that’s a really niche joke that I just told that only three people are going to appreciate. But I actually am one of them, so I don’t care. And then before anything can happen, her phone rings. I also love that.

Riese: Oh, wait. But first, did you notice that Dawn said she wanted to have some sex before showtime?

Carly: Yes. Showtime, the television network that this airs on?

Riese: Yeah. Before we take this project to Showtime, she wants to have some sex.

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: Everyone’s having sex on Showtime this week.

Carly: Cindi looks miserable with her. That’s sad. But I hate them and I don’t care.

The view from Kit's eyes of Dawn and Cindi in SheBar, Dawn saying she wants to have sex before show time

Riese: Ring, ring.

Carly: Everyone’s ringtone is Angelica talking.

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: That’s not weird.

Riese: “Mommy” … What is she saying?

Carly: I didn’t catch it.

Riese: I don’t know what she says.

Carly: I don’t either, but it’s weird.

Riese: Phone call.

Carly: It’s deeply unsettling to be there about to shoot somebody—

Riese: Sippy cup!

Carly: … and a kid voice is like, “Mommy, answer the phone,” or whatever she says. Kit answers the phone and she’s like, “Yeah, I’ll pick her up.” A real save by the bell.

Riese: Saved by the bell.

Carly: Saved by the child’s ringtone. And then there’s this wild moment where she and Cindi see each other and they’re just locking eyes…

Riese: Locked eyes.

Carly: Staring through the beaded curtain, and then nothing happens.

Riese: Nothing happens.

Carly: And Kit leaves.

Riese: That’s the end of that weird as hell everything.

Carly: Yeah.

Riese: But I guess now that she’s not going to kill them, what else could she possibly do?

Carly: Oh boy. Back to school.

Riese: Back. Murder has been foiled, and now we’re back to Carly University.

Carly: Does Jodi want a ride home? No. But Jodi does want to go to Bette’s house to collect all of her things, including her favorite underwear.

Riese: Yeah, and her jewelry.

Carly: And her jewelry.

Riese: “My favorite underwear.”

Jodi sitting at Bette's desk

Riese: Back at Shenny’s, I love this little bit of life that we have here where everyone’s cuddly, there’s a bong.

Carly: I know you do.

Riese: It’s college, I guess.

Carly: I know, it’s like a homemade gravity bong. I was like, all right. You guys know that you can just buy bongs and pipes at stores, right? You’re adults. But that’s good for them. They’re being creative.

Riese: They are. Shane’s smoking. Jenny smokes with her, and they’re both really high. Jenny’s like, “I’m not going to do this.” I didn’t take very good notes here.

Carly: I wrote—

Riese: Shane’s like, “Fuck Nikki. She should be on the cover of Maxim.” But she already was on the cover of Maxim.

Carly: I know. I was like, is that an insult?

Riese: So get with it.

Carly: She calls her a fucking dimwitted actress.

Riese: Oh, they should’ve put Jenny and Nikki in W Magazine as the cinema power couple.

Carly: Yeah, exactly. Just spin it.

Riese: That’s what I’d do here.

Carly: Exactly.

Riese: That’s a free idea.

Carly: That is a free idea.

Riese: Free idea.

Carly: You’re all welcome.

Riese: Shane says Adele’s a snake.

Carly: Yeah. They say that she’s dead.

Riese: Jenny says she has terrible cramps.

Carly: And that she is the Wicked Witch, but actually she’s talking about Adele. Jenny keeps sliding in and out of who she’s talking about, Nikki or Adele, without saying that she’s changing who she’s talking about. Yeah, Jenny has cramps. You just said that. And then Shane tells Jenny that she admires her.

Shane: I was about to give you a compliment though.
Jenny: What?
Shane: That I admire you.
Jenny: You do?
Shane: I think you’re a real survivor. Ever since you got here, yeah, even that. Then you’re all … No but seriously, you really, you got knocked down a few times but look at you. You got back up and you wrote your story.
Jenny: Yeah.
Shane: You put it out there. That’s big. I haven’t done it.

Carly: Very cute moment.

Shane in a hoodie on the sofa, very stoned, saying "Ding Dong, Niki's dead"

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “Of course I did. You got me the job. You’re my friend. You hired me.”

Carly: “You’re my best friend.”

Riese: “And you’re my best friend.”

Carly: “You’re a survivor. You’re not going to give up. You’re not going to stop.” Exactly. Yeah.

Riese: “You’re going to make it.”

Carly: We go to Bette’s, where Jodi has packed up her one pair of underwear and her jewelry in her suitcase and is about to leave.

Riese: Her favorite.

Carly: She says that Tom is on his way to pick her up.

Riese: What a hero.

Carly: Really, the unsung hero of season five is Tom.

Riese: Jodi has a wrapped box, a gift box that she says, “This was going to be your birthday present.” She sets down the box. She departs, and then Bette opens the box, it is a watch.

Carly: It is an expensive watch.

Riese: It’s an expensive watch. What?

Carly: What? It’s—

Riese: What?

Carly: What? This is the most confusing gift.

Riese: And Bette touches it like, ugh.

Carly: “What could’ve been…”

Riese: Like this beautiful … Do you remember how Alice gave Tasha a watch at one point also?

Carly: Yes. Yes, I do. What is this?

Riese: What century are we in? What?

Carly: Don’t do this. This is stupid.

Riese: This is …

Carly: Who?

Riese: Bette is emotionally moved by the watch.

Carly: I wonder if she’s thinking about the concept of what is time, you know?

Riese: Yeah. Yeah, like is time a flat circle like this watch is a flat circle?

Carly: The answer, of course, is yes.

Riese: Yes. Our final scene is that Jodi could not think of anything that was actually reflected that’s personal to give to her, but it turns out that Bette thinks she did.

Carly: Very confusing.

Riese: And everyone has a watch.

Carly: Everyone knows what time it is, I guess, now. Nobody has any excuse for being late to stuff?

Riese: You all know what time it is.

Carly: It’s time for Max to get home because Max gets to be in this episode for a brief moment.

Riese: For three seconds. They’re like, “Max, you’re the shit.” He’s like, “You guys are stoned.”

Carly: Jenny’s like, “You’re an oracle.”

Riese: Yeah.

Carly: They said that they should’ve listened to him and that he was right all along about Adele.

Riese: That was great. You know what I wanted for this scene?

Carly: What?

Riese: For it to be three minutes longer.

Max in a tank top and flannel entering the room, Jenny says "Max, you're the shit"

Carly: Yeah. I definitely would’ve enjoyed more. There is a cute moment where they’re like, where Jenny’s like, “Would you like some cannabis?” The way she says it is really funny.

Riese: Yeah. And Max is like, “yeah.”

Carly: That scene could’ve been extended, then the final scene could’ve never happened.

Riese: Yeah, and this could’ve been … because I wanted to see them realize that Max—

Carly: That Max is a person.

Riese: They’ve said it offhand, but yeah. When she said that — of course, Max being this kind, ever patient soul that he is — when Jenny says that Adele fucked her over, Max, instead of being like, “Told you so you stupid ass transphobic bitches,” is like, “Oh no, what happened? What did she do?”

Carly: “You’re high.”

Riese: So they never really got to … I wanted them to really recognize what they did and talk about it. It could be light. It doesn’t have to be a heavy scene. They’re all stoned. But I just would’ve liked to have a nice friendship moment with Max.

Carly: Yes. Some acknowledgment, yeah. Bring Max into your friendship for real. He’s your roommate, you assholes.

Riese: Yeah. And he was right. Her dad was not a fucking traveling salesman.

Carly: Boom.

Riese: Boom. The Planet.

Carly: I hate this scene so much.

Riese: My first note here is, “LOL, I hate this.” Kit made Angie a snack. She goes to bring Angie the snack. Angie’s sitting on the ground. She has the gun.

Carly: No explanation as to how. It was in her jacket pocket.

Riese: This reminded me of The Simpsons when Maggie got the gun. Remember that?

Carly: Yes, I do.

Riese: Didn’t she kill Mr. Burns?

Carly: I think she did, yes. I believe so.

Riese: I think this is an homage.

Carly: I love The L Word doing an homage to that classic Simpsons episode, Who Killed Mr. Burns? Except here, no one dies.

Riese: It was a big deal of an episode.

Carly: Yeah, it was. It was huge when it happened.

Riese: Yeah, everyone was guessing, who did kill Mr. Burns? No one expected it.

Carly: I actually watched that episode, and I don’t watch — I’ve never watched The Simpsons. But I got swept up in it.

Riese: Oh my God, my brother’s obsessed with it. Well, she has a gun, and then Kit starts crying. She picks up Angie.

Carly: She takes the gun.

Riese: Puts it in a dumpster.

Carly: And then she does the second dumbest thing of this scene. The first is that she had a gun and left it out, and Angie got to it. The second dumbest thing is that she throws it in the dumpster outside of The Planet. She purchased a firearm that was licensed to her. Why can’t you just put it back in its little case, put it in your safe and lock it up? Why would you throw it in the dumpster?

Riese: Yeah, that’s—

Carly: Someone’s going to find your loaded gun in the dumpster. That’s terrible. Yeah.

Riese: They could use it.

Carly: And then it’s going to look like you did something, stupid.

Riese: What if Cindi decides to murder Dawn Denbo?

Carly: Oh my God.

Riese: It’d be very easy to peg it on you.

Carly: Can you imagine?

Riese: I could already see all this in replay.

Carly: And then season six would be, who killed Dawn Denbo? Which would’ve been much funnier.

Riese: Exactly. And the answer would be Jenny. Yeah.

Carly: But anyway, that’s a thing that happens.

Riese: So Tina is there to pick up Angie. The snack is abandoned, by the way. And the snack sounded great.

Carly: The snack sounded real good, yeah.

Riese: It involved organic rice pudding or something like that.

Carly: I know, it sounded delicious.

Riese: Some crackers from France or something?

Carly: I was like, I’ll take the snack.

Riese: Yeah. I’ll try it. I’ll give it a nibble, a nib. Tina’s there and then, oh my God, look, it’s Mama B. They both had the worst day ever. This is a moment. This is a little bit of fan service, I think. Tina, Bette, Angie, Kit.

Carly: Mama B, Mama T.

Riese: Together again. Back together. We’re together. They are Mama TB, otherwise known as Mama Tuberculosis. They have a little baby, and the baby just had a gun, but the baby doesn’t have the gun anymore because now the gun is in the dumpster for anyone who wants a gun. Anyone who’s dumpster diving for a gun is going to find that gun. Bette’s like, “Don’t worry, they won’t get The Planet.” Kit’s like, “It’s fine. All that matters is babies.”

Carly: Yeah. And then Bette looks at Tina and says, “Hey, you want to come home?” And Tina’s like, “Yes, yes I do.” They say it differently, but that’s the vibe. The vibe is like, come home with us.

Riese: I got goosebumps just thinking about it.

Bette holds Angie in the Planet after dark

Carly: She’s like, “Yes.” That’s how it ends. That’s the episode.

Riese: That’s the episode.

Carly: Those two insufferable bitches are back together.

Riese: I don’t think we were supposed to like this episode.

Carly: Oh, okay, well in that case, it succeeded.

Riese: Because there was nothing in it that was designed to entertain us in any way besides Melanie Lynsky showing up and being like, “Hee, hee, lingerie.”

Carly: Right, I know.

Riese: “Titter, titter, come to my fashion week show on the Canals.”

Carly: I didn’t like it. I didn’t like it at all.

Riese: The stoned weed part was cute and cuddly. I liked that little part.

Carly: That was cute. It didn’t last nearly long enough.

Riese: The rest is just setting pieces in motion to wrap up the season.

Carly: Right, yeah.

Riese: I didn’t care for any of those pieces or their emotions.

Carly: Agreed.

Riese: You know what they say, Carly? Is not the size of the ocean … no, it’s not the size of the boat, it’s the motion of the ocean.

Carly: I have heard that before, yes.

Riese: That’s all I have to say about that.

Carly: I frequently find myself getting seasick on most boats, so the motion of the ocean is sort of always a problem for me.

Riese: Oh, yeah. That sounds tough.

Carly: Yeah, I just am an easily nauseated person.

Riese: And I’m easily food poisoned.

Carly: There you go.

Riese: Who wants to invite us over to play in their pool?

Carly: Invite us to your boat. We definitely will puke. Invite us to a feast on a boat, we’ll both be puking by the end of it.

Riese: But before that, I’ll have an hour where I’ll be in a really great mood.

Carly: I’ll have 20, 30 minutes of like, oh man this is fun, before I get really dizzy and have to go inside.

Riese: Well…

Carly: But we did it.

Riese: We did it. We recapped it. Did you like it, Carly?

Carly: Not really. There wasn’t much to like in this episode, if I’m being honest.

Riese: No, there wasn’t much to like in this episode.

Carly: No, there wasn’t. Next week, we’ve got the season five finale. Wow. We did it.

Riese: Woo!

Carly: Another season almost finished. I can’t believe it.

Riese: Almost finished. It’s getting closer and closer to the interrogation tapes.

Carly: Oh boy. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy.

Riese: Well, great job, Carly.

Carly: Great job, Riese.

Carly: Thank you so much for listening to To L and Back! You can find us on social media over on Instagram and Twitter. We are @tolandback. You can also email us [email protected]. And don’t forget, we have a hotline. You can give us a call, leave a message. It’s 971-217-6130. We’ve also got merch, which you can find at store.autostraddle.com. There’s stickers, there’s shirts, including a Bette Porter 2020 shirt, which is pretty excellent. Our theme song is by Be Steadwell. Our logo is by Carra Sykes. And this podcast was produced, edited and mixed by Lauren Klein. You can find me on socials, I am @carlytron. Riese is @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, autostraddle.com, the reason we are all here today.

Riese: Autostraddle.com.

Carly: All right, and finally, it’s time for our L Words. This is the segment of the show where we end things by simultaneously shouting out a random L word. Usually these have little to no relevance to anything we just recapped. Okay, Riese, you ready?

Riese: Okay. One, two, three. Leaves.

Carly: Lost. What, you said leaves?

Riese: Yeah, like the fall foliage that we’re not seeing because we don’t live in Michigan.

Carly: Right, I said “lost” because my whole goal of having WNBA themed L words for every episode has been lost. And I’ll have to come up with something really crazy for the finale, so stay tuned.

Riese: Oh, I’m so excited for that. I have to pee so bad.

Carly: Well, then we should be done here. Thank you for listening. Bye!

Riese: Bye, everyone!

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Riese is the 41-year-old Co-Founder of Autostraddle.com as well as an award-winning writer, video-maker, LGBTQ+ Marketing consultant and aspiring cyber-performance artist who grew up in Michigan, lost her mind in New York and now lives in Los Angeles. Her work has appeared in nine books, magazines including Marie Claire and Curve, and all over the web including Nylon, Queerty, Nerve, Bitch, Emily Books and Jezebel. She had a very popular personal blog once upon a time, and then she recapped The L Word, and then she had the idea to make this place, and now here we all are! In 2016, she was nominated for a GLAAD Award for Outstanding Digital Journalism. She's Jewish and has a cute dog named Carol. Follow her on twitter and instagram.

Riese has written 3202 articles for us.


  1. It was Kate French, the actress who played her, who confirmed that she was indeed based on the Lohan (and not just slightly, either); you didn’t make it up, Riese! Kate said Angela Robinson based it on the time she worked with her on Herbie, so when Lohan was 17/18. She noted that the closet love scene, shot in 2007, was of course a joke about LiLo not being out at that point.

    You might also recall that Lohan and Ronson used to go to Japan a lot when Lohan was still closeted back in ’07. That comment was actually pretty sad, as much as it came across as ridiculous and airy-fairy to some people; it was about how they actually felt safer being out overseas where it’s not actually that accepted, versus home in the US, cause that’s where the pressure was and where she really felt she couldn’t be g*y because it would make people angry. And it’s easy to misremember…but it DID make people angry. To the point that in 2017 she expressed how judged and hated she felt.

    For me the saddest thing of all is that it got right something that to me will forever be regrettable; it doesn’t matter what you think of Lohan as a person. What it got so right is that, ultimately, her being open about being g*y was threatening; her unabashed love for a woman challenged the heterosexist expectations of not only straight people but some gay men, too. The show predicted that and it was definitely right. I highly recommend reading (or re-reading) Lisa Foad’s article on Xtra (Google ‘Lisa Foad + media monsters’), in which she writes, in part: ‘And the verdict is in the obituary leak: Lohan’s body is alienating because it’s unknowable; it’s misfit and perverse — it has no place. Mainstream culture wants a Lohan it can manage; until then, it would like to lay this body to rest.’

    As someone (can’t remember who, apologies) pointed out in the 507 recap you did, Niki was an interesting case in that she actually didn’t care who knew she was gay. The constant association of her closeted status with her character rarely reflected her own feelings; it was mostly people projecting fear (about sex symbol expectations, homophobia and fears about a loss of money) onto her.

    ‘Mainstream culture wants a Lohan it can manage’ – Lisa Foad
    For me, what the premiere episode and the whole storyline was about was homophobia as a tool of control. Fitting, then, that it was alongside Tasha’s storyline. Being homophobic was a way to exert control over Lohan and unfortunately the media landscape of the time facilitated and encouraged such attitudes. The message she ultimately got was: “We don’t care if this makes you happy. You need to be with men cause this being with a woman thing makes us uncomfortable.” Denying her a chance to have that same-sex love was a devastating act of control which had a certain kind of finality attached to it; LiLo said in an interview with Howard Stern two years ago that she felt so judged and hated (you can listen to it on YouTube). I imagine it is unlikely, given the fear she attaches to that time that she will ever ‘try’ that again. It must suck to know that if you had only been born five years later, and not been 20 in 2007, things would’ve been very different. She deserves kudos for withstanding the onslaught she did for as long as she did (and a sidenote I know it was a messy relationship and don’t defend that behaviour at all). There is no doubt in my mind that in absorbing all that, Lohan and Ronson both made it easier for those who would – and did – come out after them (Ellen Page, KStew, etc.).

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