“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 207: Light

It’s another beautiful week in Los Angeles and you know what that means! Another big poker game, because that’s what lesbians do for fun here! This particular game is a fundraiser for MS that Tess and Shane seem to have organized in one calendar day, but logistics like that won’t stop this from being the new social event of the season. Until, of course, next week when it will be replaced by the launch party for Alice’s book.

But for now, we’ve got Alice and Nat hooking up (again) then breaking up (again), Sophie and Finley having sex on set (again), and Bette being mean to Carrie (again, but worse this time!). Honestly, a lot of events transpire in this episode that we didn’t love, including drunk driving! But in more wholesome news, Jordi asks Angie to prom while dancing in a fountain and SO MANY people kiss in the rain that we have to consider whether they WANT their hair to get frizzy.


  • Riese’s recap of the episode
  • Riese, Drew and my Letterboxd accounts where we all embark upon wild movie-watching projects
  • Riese is watching her way through all of Kristen Stewart’s filmography, which includes Into the Wild, Lizzie, and Safety of Objects
  • Go Fish is of course on the 200 Best Lesbian Movies of All Time list, at #103
  • The book with the line “you can’t get milk from the hardware store” was Milk Fed, which I found very exhausting to read but was reviewed on Autostraddle here!
  • We didn’t talk about The Flight Attendant on AS, but we did a fun roundtable about The White Lotus and Drew reviewed the second season of Feel Good when it premiered this year!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I am Riese.

Drew: And this is:

Drew, Analyssa, and Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q edition.

Drew: We’re still together.

Riese: Yeah. We’re in the same room, so that means we say the whole thing together. And then we also say a lot of other things at the same time. And we’re sorry.

Analyssa: We’re sorry about that.

Drew: Yeah. We’re very excited to be around each other. And so if there’s a little bit of what we call in the podcasting business cross-talk. Sorry, but—

Analyssa: We’re trying not to.

Riese: I just did it.

Drew: You just did. It’s okay. It’s okay. It’s okay. I think it’s okay that we are excited to be here with each other and to talk about this show where people are constantly talking over each other.

Analyssa: So true. What if we just sat here and all just took turns and waited, that would not be fun either. So we’ll figure it out. We’re just so excited to be in each other’s presence.

Riese: And Carol’s.

Analyssa: And Carol’s most of all.

Drew: Carol is touching my thigh right now. This is Gen Q 207, “Light,” directed by Rose Troche. If you don’t know who that is, worked on the original series, directed Go Fish, a lesbian classic that I think is underrated among contemporary audiences.

Riese: Safety of Objects.

Drew: Safety of Objects.

Riese: Oh, were you looking at me as a contemporary audience who underrates Go Fish?

Drew: Oh, that wasn’t pointed. I feel like a lot of people at Autostraddle are like, “Oh, Go Fish sucks.”

Riese: Including me.

Drew: Yeah, but I like it.

Riese: I might be the root.

Drew: But that’s okay. We can’t all love everything, but Rose Troche is a legend.

Riese: Yes. She is a legend.

Drew: And it’s exciting to see her directing an episode of this.

Riese: Also, if you haven’t seen The Safety of Objects, you should, I was going to say, go see it. And I’m like, I don’t know, find the DVD?

Analyssa: Watch it online somewhere.

Riese: It’s really good. Kristen Stewart’s in it.

Analyssa: Actually. I’m so glad that you brought that up, because Riese has watched recently — I follow Riese on Letterboxd.

Drew: I’ve been observing this as well.

Analyssa: Quick plug: Follow all three of us on Letterboxd because we’re fun.

Riese: Yeah, I’m trying, I’m doing it.

Analyssa: Riese is watching all of Kristen Stewart’s movies.

Riese: In order.

Analyssa: In order, which has led to me adding a lot of random movies that Kristen Stewart, I’m sure, is in for 15 minutes to my Letterboxd watch list. But weirdly I’ve been wanting to do this. I don’t know if you follow my Letterboxd as closely as I follow yours, but you know I’m doing this director project.

Riese: I actually literally just follow you guys and Shelly, so I can keep pretty close tabs on everyone.

Analyssa: So I’m doing this director project where I watch movies from iconic directors. And I’ve been thinking that if I do another iteration of this, actresses would be a very fun one. Kristen Stewart is one that I, for gay personal reasons, would do. And so then you were doing this and I’m inspired by you and your commitment.

Riese: That’s so wonderful. I mean, some of them I’ve watched out of order, like Gretchen I watched Lizzie the other night, which I hadn’t already seen. But when I’m alone, I’m doing it in order. And I will say that I’ve watched some unfortunate films. Have you seen Into the Wild?

Drew: Yes. I have.

Analyssa: Riese hated Into the Wild. Her eyeballs are about to pop out.

Riese: Kristen Stewart’s early films, she is somehow heterosexual and they always put her in skirts that go down to here and Converse.

Analyssa: They do costume — I feel that with Elliot Page too, like—

Riese: That was a similar, that was a similar costuming strategy.

Analyssa: There’s always something going on there where you look and you’re… I was obsessed with them. Me, Analyssa, was obsessed with them as a high schooler before I knew I was queer at all. And now that makes sense to me. You didn’t tell us who wrote this episode, did you?

Drew: Yes, this episode is written by Maisha Closson, who wrote this season’s “Luck be a Lady” and has written on a bunch of television. Should we get in?

Riese: I was just thinking how much I hated Into the Wild. We open in heaven.

Drew: Sex, sex, sex!

Analyssa: We open in Riese’s favorite way to open any episode. Sophie and Finley are fucking all over the house, engaging in the time honored tradition of new relationship, we won’t leave this home. In fact, they haven’t eaten or drank water.

Riese: Yeah, which I didn’t understand, really you haven’t drank water? I have to drink water every three minutes.

Drew: Yeah. Drink water. Also you can make it, if you need to make it sexy, involve water in your sex.

Riese: Last week we spoke about ice, and now, you know — and the sort of the — the beginning of a relationship having sex all the time is elevated by the fact that they live in the same house. So there’s nothing stopping them from just going bananas.

Drew: And Finley’s unemployed.

Riese: And Finley’s — just a soccer — no Finley has two jobs?

Drew: Oh right. Sorry. Finley acts like she’s unemployed. Correction.

Analyssa: They should just put one glass of water next to the bed and be reaching over.

Riese: Or a water bottle.

Drew: At least a Mason jar full of water for the two of them.

Riese: No notes.

Analyssa: Yeah. No notes. We did it. Great. They’re doing it. They love it.

Riese: They’re having a nice time. I’m so happy they’re together. I hope that nothing goes wrong.

Drew: I’m sure nothing will.

Riese: So speaking of horny people, we go to a little brunch date starring Alice and Bette. But it’s not just Alice and Bette at the restaurant.

Drew: It’s Nat and Gigi.

Bette: Fuck, they’re both here. That is so gay.

Drew: They are also there. So first Bette says to Alice that she seems happy. And again, we’re getting that Bette Porter soft bi-phobia, but she’s being a supportive friend, so whatever. And Bette says that the things are over with Gigi and is like, “It’s fine. She’s playing head games with someone else already.” When it’s like, what head games, what? This is the episode where I turned.

Riese: Bette Porter head games. Like, what? Pot, kettle.

Analyssa: Bette “head games” Porter over here is like “Gigi’s off playing head games?” What? Again, last week when we were like, everyone in this friend group thought Jodi was so weird for just wanting to know what is going on, Bette thinks that Gigi is playing head games by going, “Do you want to talk about your feelings?”

Riese: Right. Gigi liked Bette and wanted to continue to see her. That’s not a head game.

Drew: No, it’s the opposite.

Riese: That’s just life.

Analyssa: That’s how it goes sometimes.

Drew: I mean, it might be a different kind of head game if she had played her cards better, but that’s not what she means. This season is really — it’s fascinating to spend so many years obsessed with Bette Porter, and then to just, I don’t know if it’s the season or if it’s like something in me, but I’m like, “It’s ending.” My love of Bette Porter is sort of over, I’m really finding it hard to be… this episode’s rough.

Riese: In the comments on the recap last week, one of the commentaries noted that something feels different about this season. It feels like maybe she’s punching down. And I think that might be it, because even her and Jodi were equals, whether Bette fucked — was the one who messed with Jodi, but they were equals. But the way she goes after Carrie and the way she treats Gigi, and — I mean her and Gigi are equals, but not in this relationship.

Analyssa: That is interesting. I haven’t thought about that. You know what though? Alice looks great.

Drew: Alice does look great.

Analyssa: Anyway, Bette Porter would have me believe that’s because she’s fucking Tom, I guess.

Drew: Bette takes a call and Alice goes to say hi to Nat and Nat’s hair looks amazing, worth noting.

Riese: Luscious.

Drew: It’s just wonderful. My perception of this was, “Oh, this is awkward.” But that wasn’t their perception of it because before you know it they’re fucking in Nat’s car.

Analyssa: With Alice through the sunroof.

Riese: Yeah. It’s funny.

Analyssa: Bouncing vigorously. Do we think… not to get graphic.

Drew: Let’s get graphic.

Analyssa: On a hand? It just was so vigorous, the balancing.

Riese: Yeah. I think on a hand.

Drew: I don’t know. I mean, good for her.

Riese: Do you think Nat was packing?

Drew: Maybe.

Analyssa: At brunch to talk about logistics with Gigi?

Drew: She loves public sex. You never know when you’re going to need it.

Riese: That’s true. I mean, I don’t know if they — do you think that they really thought about it?

Analyssa: No.

Drew: I don’t know because if there’s one thing I trust Gen Q on, it’s that they think through their sex scenes. So, I don’t know. But whatever it is, it depends how much you are a Talice shipper, but I don’t know. It’s fun.

Analyssa: They seem to be having fun. The physical comedy, we’ve talked about how funny Leisha Hailey is, and her popping through the sunroof is very good. Honestly, Drew and I talked through the beginning of this next scene. So what is Shane talking to Tess about?

Riese: They’ve organized overnight, as you do on television, a giant function for the MS society.

Drew: That explains so much of the later stuff that we were a little bit confused about.

Riese: It is some sort of poker thing, obviously. And Tess is so excited she’s going to cry. And then she goes to see her anonymous friends in the community center because that’s where her AA meeting is. And then Shane spots Carrie walking in and thinks—

Drew: Yeah. Got all that.

Analyssa: We sort of were debriefing the Nat and Alice thing and missed what the event focus was. I sensed that there was an event and then we saw, I’m going inside and there’s Carrie.

Drew: Yeah. Now that Annalysa and I live together, it’s a little bit more the energy of an L Word watch party, as opposed to the like, we’re scholars, pausing the episode over and over again to get every little detail, which is fun for us. But if we mess anything up, you know where to find us. Speaking of writing things down, Angie’s writing questions to ask Marcus and Jordi is being really weird and it’s not her character. And I know they’re doing a thing and we’ll get—

Riese: I mean, what’s her character?

Drew: I don’t know, her character was a supportive high school girlfriend. That was all we knew about her, was that she liked Angie and was present and cool. And then, I don’t know. I just, I’m still annoyed about this. Even though she’s not even a canonically trans character. So I’m just wanting these cute teen lesbians to be cute, which I know we’ll get there. We’ve all watched the episode. But at this point I was like, why is Jordi being so… I get teenagers are teenagers.

Riese: It’s not like we ever find out the answer to that.

Drew: No, not really. It’s sort of—

Analyssa: They tried to explain it.

Drew: But I don’t know. I don’t enjoy this, but that’s what’s happening in this scene.

Analyssa: Yeah. She also is… we don’t need to get too deep into this, but she just kind of walks out also. She’s like, “Alright, see you later.”

Drew: It’s weird.

Riese: Speaking of Porters.


Riese: We go and we finally find out — which I have now looked up on the internet — that a gallery is sort of like an agent. So being represented by a gallery, it means they sell your work and they take a cut and they have access to more artists. And they can show you at their gallery, but they can also book you a show at a museum.

Drew: I see. So she was like, “If you can get me a museum show, I will sign with the evil monster.”

Riese: Yeah. And so she did with her ye old CAC.

Drew: CAC.

Analyssa: Back to the CAC.

Riese: Back to the CAC.

Drew: She says that CAC is doing a show around work about Black Lives Matter and that Pippa could be the center of it. And I just was interested because the stance the show has taken on tokenization being the worst thing that can happen to someone with a marginalized identity this season, that’s sort of been their stance. It was interesting to me that this wasn’t the time that it came up, because Pippa feels like the character — of Micah, Pippa, Bette — Pippa feels like the character who would be like, “This is tokenizing me,” like, “Yes, this is what my work is about, but I don’t want it to be…”

Riese: Well, it’s more like pigeonholing than tokenizing.

Analyssa: Yeah. “I don’t want to just be this kind of artist” or they think that because — but it seems like—

Drew: She’s just excited to have this museum show now. And I don’t know. I know we have to move the story along, but it just was interesting to me because I was like, “Oh, I feel like this character would have…” I was expecting her to have something to say about that, but maybe she, unlike Micah and Bette, realizes that talking about and representing your identity isn’t actually the worst thing in the world.

Analyssa: Well, and also Bette says later that — which I think was really interesting to hear from Bette — that Pippa explores her queerness and Blackness in ways that Bette says she has only just started to do, which I was like, “That’s actually interesting.” So I also wonder if Pippa, because Pippa, per Bette, is doing that in her art that she’s like, “That’s an okay place to show my kind of thing.” Pippa is also saying that she is sort of nervous about doing a show because the art world chewed her up and spit her out when she was younger. And she’s afraid to get sort of lost in that validation need again, and what it means about her. All the things that I think are interesting about artists. What’s more interesting is that Pippa casually revealed she has a son, which for those of you following along at home means that she does, in fact—

Riese: Check all of Bette’s boxes.

Analyssa: All of Bette’s boxes. So true.

Drew: Yes. These are Bette’s boxes now.

Analyssa: Pippa is going to do the show. She’s excited. We’re signed on, this probably means good things for them.

Riese: Yeah. And then Bette calls someone to be excited about it. And then Carrie calls her and she takes the call. Yes. Speaking of talk show hosts.

Analyssa: Oh yeah, because of Carrie.

Riese: Yeah, because Carrie’s a talk show host. You guys know what I mean. Over at The Alice Show, it’s time to watch Sophie’s segment. It’s airing right now on the video screen of the show.

Analyssa: I don’t understand how this talk show works, but whatever. Okay.

Riese: I love the idea of all these heterosexuals sitting there wanting to see this cute elderly, lesbian love story.

Analyssa: It’s like families who are on vacation to LA and have booked tickets the way that you do for The Ellen Show.

Drew: This is viral content!

Riese: They’re like, “Oh my God! We love love!”

Analyssa: They wanted to see Alice in a hamster ball. And then they see these sweet, sweet lesbians. And they’re like, “Yeah, amazing!”

Riese: “More!”

Drew: But then Finley comes in from reffing kids’ soccer to support Sophie.

Riese: She’s very excited for her.

Drew: Can I say something that’s going to bother you, Riese?

Riese: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Drew: So the ways in which Finley is annoying, I’m aware that by the end of this episode, now I really feel bad saying this, but at this point in the episode, I was like, “Finley, when she’s getting what she wants, when she’s not a sad puppy, I find her obnoxious,” where I was like, look that’s maybe my own shit to work through as far as the type that Finley is, where I just feel she just sort of stumbles through life and everything just sort of works out for her. And when things weren’t working out for her, Jacqueline Toboni is a really good actor, and I felt a lot for the character and the character’s well-written. So but then at this point I just was a little bit like, I don’t know, she was annoying me in this scene and annoying me sort of throughout this episode a little bit. But then… you know.

Riese: I thought this scene was really sweet.

Drew: Okay. And that’s great.

Analyssa: I’m somewhere between the two of you, which is to say, I thought the scene was really sweet and I love that she showed up to support Sophie. We’re in a public space and she’s changing out of her referee outfit. Weird. And then of course, for old time’s sake, because they love to fuck in this room, they start kissing and I was like—

Riese: I don’t know if it’s Finley’s fault though.

Analyssa: No, it’s definitely not.

Riese: It’s a mutual…

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: For sure. The having sex is actually I think more on Sophie to be like, “I’m at my place of work. I’m wearing a blazer. We’re not going to do this right now.” But as aforementioned, they’re in that early, we simply can’t… the only air we need to breathe is at the back of each other’s throats kind of moment. So they start hooking up and it turns out that there’s an exec from the network, that’s what I assume, there to watch the show today. And he loves the segment so much that he tells Alice, and Alice is like, famously as bosses on talk show hosts are want to do, gives credit to Sophie, good for her, takes them back to the green room of sex again. And luckily Alice is the only person who sees it. I was really nervous.

Riese: Me too, because I don’t care for that kind of little device. So I was like, “Really, guys? This is what you’re going to do?”

Analyssa: But also I thought, we know that something, and we’ll know even more later, that something that Sophie’s grappling with is that Finley is not mature or professional or whatever it is that she’s judging on. And I saw in my mind’s eye, a little telescope came out of my brain and I could see them in the next 30 minutes being like, it’s actually Finley’s fault that Sophie got caught by her boss fucking. And I was already mad about that. And luckily that’s not what happens. But anyway, you know who else saw someone fucking today? It’s Gigi, Gigi saw Nat and Alice having sex in the car, and Alice’s little blonde head popping in and out of the sunroof. And she’s telling that to Dani, while they’re hanging out midday, I don’t know what’s going on here, but that’s fine.

Riese: They love to put Dani at a food truck.

Analyssa: Dani does love a food truck. Gigi asked if they should talk about the other night and Dani is kind of hesitant and then confesses that she thinks it’s a little bit shitty that Gigi sprung her feelings on her during a low point.

Gigi: So we’re going to talk about the other night?
Dani: I was hoping to just skip over it, actually.
Gigi: Oh, okay. She’s a “lock it in the closet and throw away the key” type. My favorite.
Dani: No, I just—
Gigi: You don’t feel the same way, that’s okay. I’m a big girl. I can handle it.
Dani: No, I just thought it was kind of shitty actually.
Gigi: Me telling you I have feelings for you is shitty?
Dani: Well, I had a fucking horrible night, to see the two of them like that, and then you made me feel good, but then I needed a friend.

Riese: But who wouldn’t want, when they were at a low point, for Gigi to tell you that she has feelings about you?

Drew: Yes. But also, I really liked this because—

Riese: It does show that Dani speaks her mind.

Drew: Okay. This is a really hot take, coming this direction of this microphone.

Analyssa: Everyone get ready.

Drew: I think Dani, this season, is my favorite character? This season. Last season, she was maybe my least favorite character. I love her character this season. I relate to her a lot when I didn’t relate to her at all last season. And this season, there’s a lot of things that I really… I think, I don’t know. I really, really like her character and what they’re doing with their character. I mean, I loved the ending of the last episode, as you remember from my intense enthusiasm. But I do think that, yeah, it was a little bit… if Gigi’s for real and really wants a real relationship here with Dani, bringing up those feelings when the person is in crisis, isn’t the most—

Riese: They were talking about ice cream, competitive ice cream eating.

Analyssa: They were kind of on a date at that point.

Riese: Yeah. The past was in the past.

Drew: That was a pretty intense — I don’t know. I’m just saying, I don’t think it was bad. I don’t think Gigi’s abusive. I just think that Dani being like, “I feel complicated because of these circumstances” and then talking it out and then they talked. This is what happens when characters actually talk, when people talk, look, queer people talk. And Gigi’s like, “You should talk to Bette. If, what actually is, is that you feel like — talk to Bette.” It’s great. I love it.

Riese: Dani is — she’s just so wide-eyed and she doesn’t know what she is. She’s like—

Dani: I would never want someone to feel the way I did when Sophie—
Gigi: I don’t think that had very strong feelings for me.
Dani: I find that hard to believe.

Riese: It’s so awkward for Gigi because she obviously wants to be like, “No. I mean, she really didn’t like me.”

Analyssa: She really didn’t, and also it’s such a strong indicator that Dani has really strong feelings for Gigi, because—

Drew: I thought that was so cute.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I thought it was very sweet.

Drew: It’s such a thing where you’re like, when you fall in love with someone, and you hear all their stories and you’re like, “Yeah, that person broke your heart? Dumped you? What? You’re clearly the best person who’s ever walked on this planet.” It’s very sweet.

Riese: Speaking of people who have had sex, we go back to The Alice Show where Alice is like, “You motherfuckers, what the fuck.”

Analyssa: But do you like that Alice is one of the 35 Sinley shippers in the world?

Riese: I do! She said, “I love you guys together.” Yeah. She’s number 35! And Finley’s like, “Could it just be my fault because I don’t work here anymore?” But that’s not how it works. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. You guys shouldn’t… and she’s like, “What is it about that room?” Anyway. It was funny and cute.

Alice: Febreze the shit out of that couch before you leave.
Sophie: Absolutely.
Finley: Copy. Febreezing.

Analyssa: I like this Alice-Sophie relationship, friendship. I think it’s fun.

Riese: I think so too.

Drew: I like it too. Speaking of emotional processing, Angie tells Kayla that Jordi’s preoccupied with prom and that their relationship isn’t going well. And then she’s like, “Have you ever broken up with anyone?”

Riese: I’m like, Angie, at least talk to her about it first?! What are you doing, you crazy girl? What is in those smoothies, man. They love to put people under 18 drinking a goddamn smoothie on this show. Why do they just want to get a straw and pop it into a plastic cup so hard?

Analyssa: Critically, Angie is 16. So she’s never had to talk through a problem in a relationship before. She has the thing that honestly, sometimes I still have, which is like, “Oh, this doesn’t work? Guess it’s done. Guess we don’t work.” The other thing I thought was really sweet in this scene was Angie going, “Jordi just only cares about Prom.” And Kayla goes, “That seems fun. Seems like she’s having a fun time.” And I thought that was really funny. And the thing is, all of the Jordi-is-normally-supportive stuff aside, Kayla kind of makes, without trying to, a good point, which is sometimes you have people who you talk with about fun stuff. And Kayla is happy to talk about the dad stuff. And I read this book last summer, Drew already has heard this, actually once today. And it had a line in it. It’s a girl who goes to therapy and the therapist is like, “You can’t keep trying to get milk at the hardware store,” about trying to connect emotionally with your mother who refuses to do that. And I think it’s useful. It felt like, I read that line and I was like, “Have I gone to therapy?” And that’s sort of what I felt here, there is something for Angie and Jordi to discuss clearly, but also you can’t get milk from the hardware store. Just ask Kayla. That’s fine. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. But she should expect her girlfriend to be interested in her interests.

Analyssa: 100%. And also they should have a conversation about it.

Riese: Yeah. Kayla did a great job acting. She sucked on that straw. I completely believed she was drinking her smoothie. And I was like, “Wow, good job you guys.”

Analyssa: Teen actors get smoothie cups, which are always clear. And you can see through them, adult actors sometimes get coffee cups, which are just plainly empty and a weird tool.

Riese: Ageism.

Analyssa: Yeah. Speaking of people who should talk to each other… I really don’t know what the scene started as. I didn’t like it.

Riese: It seemed like Sophie for some reason is… Finley and Sophie are perfect together because Finley just takes it. You know what I mean? Dani would be like, “No,” or really anyone. But Finley’s own self-esteem is kind of wobbling. And also I think she’s used to no one taking her seriously.

Analyssa: She kind of jokes her way into Sophie calming down about some non-existent issue. Basically Sophie is sort of like, “Can you cook?” I don’t know it just starting to—

Drew: Well, what happens is what you were saying earlier that basically Sophie decides that even though she did this thing where she was one of the two people having sex in that room, that, because she feels embarrassed, it’s Finley’s fault. And so she’s like, “You’re so immature” and it’s like, “no, Sophie, maybe you have to, I mean, yes, but also maybe you have to confront the fact that you also made this mistake and you’re also immature and, but yeah, Finley just sort of takes it, but then Finley blames her immaturity on getting kicked out at 18 and having some stunted development.

Riese: She doesn’t blame her immaturity on it. She just says she’s not as grown up as Dani, but I mean, Dani’s father gave her a… She’s now CEO of her father’s company and that’s a much different place to be coming from than Finley getting kicked out of her home in Missouri.

Drew: Totally. I feel like, I don’t… I wasn’t saying that with judgment, I was just like her not being grown up, immaturity, I guess I was like using those interchangeably, but… Which I think is a… It is a fair point. I think it’s something that a lot of queer people have to realize, is that like, whatever, sort of lost youth stunted adulthood, that queer people often have, that honestly, trans people have even more than cis queer people. I think you have to sort of realize that it’s not an excuse. It is an explanation, but it’s not necessarily an excuse and you have to work on that. And I think her self-awareness is probably a positive, as far as that’s the, it’s the first step you know, of knowing that you have to fix something, is knowing the origin and knowing that it’s a problem, but Sophie’s being very mean.

Analyssa: But… Yeah, I was going to say. I don’t know that Finley actually has something to fix in this specific situation. It’s like, I think what she’s saying is like, “Yeah, I can’t cook fancy meals because I didn’t grow up in a fancy house. I got kicked out. So my go-to meal is an oven pizza. Sorry.” That’s kind of what it felt like to me. Anyway.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They recover this, sort of, by Finley being jokey.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: And then Sophie is like, oh, I actually was just asking you questions because I want to get to know you more.

Drew: Which is bullshit.

Analyssa: In a different way, which is not true. You were just rude to me.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I’m just like, this is obviously going to be a conflict for them. That was… This is the main conflict we’ve all been anticipating, Sophie is very ambitious and has her career aspirations and Finley really doesn’t have any aspirations. And it’s hard to know if that’s something that she’s done because she didn’t have any options. And so she just has been trying to paddle around or whatever. But I mean, then she eventually is like, “Just so you know, I’m down to be a stay at home baby daddy.” And I’m like, oh yikes.

Analyssa: Right after Sophie visibly tries not to make a face when Finley is like, “I don’t know, the kid’s soccer coaching thing is going well.” Sophie, I could just see this whole mask kind of fall.

Riese: Yeah, she just said it and was like… But you knew… She knew this about Finley.

Drew: She knew this about Finley, so that it’s, I mean it’s… This is… I do think there are ways in which Finley is immature and needs to grow up. But I think that Sophie’s issues with her are more just issues with who Finley just genuinely is. And if she doesn’t want to date her, she doesn’t have to date her. But plenty of people would want Finley as their goofy stay at home dad.

Analyssa: The other thing though, and then we can move on, is Sophie, I don’t think actually cares about Finley’s lack of ambition. I think she cares about how Finley’s lack of ambition is perceived by other people in her orbit.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Analyssa: I don’t actually think she gives a shit what Finley does, except for how it looks to the people… I mean, later we see this at the party or whatever, it just kind of, it rubs me the wrong way. It’s like a focus of, it feels mean-spirited almost, rather than oh, this is just something, this is a difference in core values. It’s actually, I wish that you were more show-offable in the way that Dani was.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: That’s not exactly what she says, but that’s what it feels like to me and I’m speaking for Anna.

Drew: Yeah, I think that’s true though. I…

Riese: I projected onto this scene when someone told me that they were down to be a stay at home baby daddy. And I was like, this is terrifying to me.

Drew: Oh yeah. It’s my nightmare, but I wouldn’t date that person.

Riese: Because I was like, you know I’ll be solely working for Autostraddle, right? Because there’s, I’m never going to be making a two income salary. You know what I mean? Like, sorry. It was a lot. It was a lot.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, but that’s, that… It’s also my nightmare.

Riese: Also, Sophie wants to be a stay at home mom.

Drew: Yeah. But, no one… They don’t want a job. No working, 2021.

Analyssa: I mean, in The L Word, they already don’t go to work that often. Speaking of work though, now we’re at the event that Drew and I didn’t know about.

Riese: The event!

Drew: Yay.

Analyssa: Woo-hoo. I love that, again, The L Word posits that poker is the only thing to do on a Saturday night and the only way to make a large amount of money.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: They didn’t just throw a…

Riese: Party.

Analyssa: Nope.

Riese: A karaoke party.

Analyssa: A karaoke party. I was just about to say that.

Drew: Everybody loves an auction, you know.

Riese: Do a date auction. My boyfriend’s fraternity did that and I bid on…

Drew: I don’t know if we should be following what your boyfriend’s fraternity did.

Analyssa: Did you win him?

Riese: Yeah, I think because everyone was scared of me. Probably. But I mean, he was not a prize, I’ll tell you what. So…

Analyssa: Okay. So…

Drew: Oh boy.

Analyssa: We’re at the event.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Once again, everyone’s in the same room for most of this episode, as with the last episode.

Drew: Yeah it’s fun. First, I really think Alice looks good. I mean, we’ve been saying Alice looks good this whole episode, but—

Riese: I didn’t like her hair.

Drew: It worked for me.

Analyssa: Drew really liked her hair.

Drew: I was really surprised that it worked for me.

Analyssa: I like that look on people. Not to brag, but that’s how I did my hair when I went to the Golden Globes party, before the world shut down, January 2020.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: So Alice is here, I agree with Drew, looking great. And she sees Sophie and Finley and she’s like…

Alice: It’s nice to see you two dressed up! Or wearing anything really.
Finley: Oh, good one. Yeah. We deserve that.
Sophie: Well, thanks for being so cool. I was just really horrified about the whole thing.
Alice: Oh my God. I’ve done worse, first of all. But there’s a lot of network people here, so you can make nice.
Finley: Okay. That’s awesome.
Sophie: That’s good. Yeah, we’ve got it.

Analyssa: And then also, Nat is here, which means that Alice is not going to be on her best behavior. So it’s…

Riese: I think this whole interaction was really cute.

Drew: Yeah, I really liked this.

Riese: Because, like Finley and Sophie are kind of teasing them and they’re not, they’re…. It’s just funny. It’s a cute little, it was cute.

Finley: Wow. Hi. Okay. Are you, are you two…?
Alice: We just… us? We just hang out and stuff.
Sophie: Oh.
Nat: Yep. Just hanging.
Sophie: Okay.
Finley: Sounds totally believable.
Shane: Hey.
Alice: Pretty much all we do.
Shane: So glad you guys made it. Hi.
Alice: Hi.
Shane: And you made it?
Nat: Yes. Hi, good to see you.
Shane: Been a while, yeah.
Nat: Yeah. It has. Happy to be here.

Analyssa: And I thought that continued into when Shane is talking to Alice about communicating with Nat and how was it going. And Alice is like, what are you Oprah? I thought that was very funny. And then, that ball of fun keeps rolling because Bette and Pippa are here too.

Riese: Yeah. And Bette is again, has made a choice and her choices of blazer that is two ideas, in one blazer. And that is art and that is power.

Drew: She likes to Frankenstein her blazers.

Analyssa: That is power, is a patchwork blazer. Yeah.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Shane and Alice embarrass Bette in front of Pippa. And they do a—

Riese: That was cute.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They do a whole little routine about how long Bette has been chasing Pippa and how bad she wanted her. And it’s not super clear if it’s about professional stuff or sexual stuff, but it’s embarrassing nonetheless, and very fun.

Drew: And then Carrie shows up. Or Carrie’s there.

Riese: Well, first Shane asks Alice if she’s ever seen Dumb and Dumber.

Analyssa: Because Alice is wearing that blue suit.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Carrie shows up.

Riese: Right Before we get to the, all of the cringe of it. They, her and Alice have a super, super cute interaction, that is obviously intentionally meta.

Carrie: Hey!
Alice: Oh, hey Carrie.
Carrie: How are you?
Alice: Good.
Carrie: Good. You look great.
Alice: Thank you.
Carrie: I just wanted you to know, I love the show this season. It’s fantastic.
Alice: Ah, that’s really sweet.
Carrie: I mean, a lesbian talk show host?
Alice: That’s me.
Carrie: It’s unprecedented.
Alice: I know. Well, there’s Ellen.
Carrie: Yeah.
Alice: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah.
Alice: But yeah, after that, I can’t think of anyone. It was like, road wide open.
Carrie: No, you’re like paving the way for everybody. It’s… It means a lot to a lot of people, means a lot to me.
Alice: Thank you. Have you been to a talk show?
Carrie: Never.
Alice: I can get you tickets.
Carrie: Are you kidding?
Alice: No, I could do… I mean, I could call my producer and…
Carrie: Oh, I would love it. That’s something.

Riese: It’s really funny.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s cute, because you know…

Drew: I enjoyed that.

Riese: I enjoyed that. I imagined all of them on the set being like… Aren’t you so funny and self-referential?

Drew: And then, Alice offers Carrie tickets, which, going to see tapings is such a miserable experience. That is something that you learn when you go to see tapings. But I do feel like Carrie would be the kind of person who would want to go to see a taping and might actually enjoy it.

Riese: Rosie got me tickets to go to The View and I had a great time at 6:00 AM or whenever it was.

Drew: I’m so glad you did.

Analyssa: Yeah. Something weird about tapings is that you always have to go at an insane time. You always have to sit in a very cold stage for a long time. And they’re always plastic folding chairs. Not to get super LA about it, but I hope Carrie has a fun time.

Drew: Okay. So Finley asks Sophie if she thinks Alice is a top, which was a fun little interaction. And then Sophie brings up Tom, and Finley says she was going to ask how riding the D was. It’s just like… okay.

Analyssa: The show alternating between caring a lot about if Tom is a man, and not caring at all if Tom is a man is…

Riese: I mean, I think this is a realistic thing that someone like Finley would say.

Drew: Yeah. I guess so.

Analyssa: True.

Drew: It’s like, it’s not unrealistic. I just… I don’t know. It’s one of those things that’s like, it’s not transphobic. Obviously we know that Tom is a cis man. It’s just one of those things that feels, I don’t know. I mean, it’s not something that I would ever bring up if someone said out in the world, which people say stuff like this all the time. It’s just… I don’t know.

Analyssa: What else is not a surprise, is that Finley crushes with this old white man exec.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yeah. I think it is such a silly thing of Sophie to be nervous about this. Obviously this is going to go well. You know what? I’ve spent a lot of time with white male execs in my day, not a lie, and you know what they love?

Riese: Baby masc lesbians?

Analyssa: Yes. But, being flattered, being played to as… They love the like, “Hey big guy,” kind of humor, which is what Finley does because she’s a baby masc lesbian. She’s like elbowing him, bro-ing out. Obviously this man thinks that’s charming and he’s kind of like, Ooh, bonus points because I’m doing it with a woman instead of with a fratty Dartmouth dude, you know?

Riese: Yeah. Like a cool lesbian thinks that… Yeah. And also I think that with Finley’s backstory, she’s had to kind of charm her way into a lot of things because she hasn’t had money or resources. So it was totally predictable that she’s probably good with all different types of people.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And then… So Shane spots Carrie having a drink at the bar and goes over to talk to her because she had seen her walking into the AA meeting. And Carrie says that it wasn’t… She was going to the OA, like Overeaters Anonymous meeting. I don’t know if we’re supposed to believe her or not.

Analyssa: Oh, interesting.

Drew: I just did believe her, but then I, but then as the episode went on, I wondered if we weren’t supposed to believe her.

Riese: Right. Like in the moment when we were watching it, we were like, oh, oh okay. So yeah, she went… But then later in the episode I was like, were we not supposed to believe her? I couldn’t tell.

Analyssa: Interesting.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, what was interesting about this is that whether it is overeating or alcohol, she says that being around Bette and this group of people is really triggering for her. And that, if Bette just gave her a chance, she thinks that she might like her and it brings up all this stuff. And it is interesting to see. It is a little bit like the lobster episode of the original L Word, of seeing the unspoken fact that The L Word is populated by this very specific type of person who is, sort of a nightmare, or at least very much fitting into this, I don’t know, certain box. Like actually addressing that, and actually being like, this is a… It’s very hard to be around these kinds of people. And if you’re not up to their, whatever level, and I thought that was interesting to have her explicitly say that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. Shane—

Riese: She also over shares and it’s so cringy.

Drew: Yes. Very much so.

Riese: Because you can tell like Shane, because she’s like, I’ve… And in a way it reminded me of me, but she starts talking about her antidepressants and that… who, it’s just…

Analyssa: And like, how bad she wants Bette to like her, and maybe she had, maybe she can try this thing. And Shane has been giving good advice this episode and continues to do so. But basically she is like, you have to take it slow with Bette. I wish that Shane had said no, trust me, I’m a Bette expert, but she’s basically doling out advice of, you can’t come on too strong with Bette and viewers of The L Word know because Bette will react poorly. Carrie doesn’t know that, so she’s for sure going to continue on with her plan. But yeah…

Drew: Do we… Riese, you would know this, how did Shane become friends with Bette and all of them?

Riese: Did they meet at that millennium party or whatever, or were they already friends with her at that point?

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Drew: I don’t know. It just seems like such a thing where I find it surprising that Bette would not be judgmental towards Shane, when Bette first had met Shane.

Riese: No, it was Dana who was judgmental towards Shane.

Drew: Yeah. It was Dana. Anyways, that was just something that I was thinking about. But yeah, it is very cringy, but also it’s not the cringiest thing that we’re… It’s going to get cringier.

Riese: Nope. We’re not even there yet.

Drew: But before that, we have a nice little break, which is a scene that I would have been freaking out about, if… I’m just going to give a slight thing and then we can get into the fun part of it. Which is just, it’s about Angie and Jordi. And I just… If the previous scenes with Jordi had been Angie being like, I really want to talk to Jordi about all of my dad stuff. And Jordi’s like, I’m so sorry, I’m just so busy right now, I can’t see you. And Angie’s like, I really needed to talk and Jordi hasn’t been there for me. And it wasn’t like, oh, when I sit with Jordi, she’s texting and being like, oh my god, prom this, prom that, she’s just not available. Then this scene would have hit so hard because it’s like, oh, she was preparing. Anyways, that’s my one little thing, let’s get into the fun, which is that Angie is getting ready to break up with Jordi. And then, Jordi’s like, put on a raincoat and put on these headphones. And then it’s like a promposal for the ages.

Analyssa: Literally, La La Land who? I don’t know her. This was so over the top, but so sweet to me. I thought it was so cute, but I was worried that Angie was going to… I told Drew this, I was nervous about the nature versus nurture situation for a second, because I thought that Angie having gone into this conversation wanting to break up with Jordi, and then Jordi doing this big grand gesture, that she would do a Bette Porter thing and immediately shut down.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: And she didn’t, she was very excited.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, that was… She won her over lickety split. That turned around on a dime.

Drew: I… the way this was happening, I kept thinking about that meme with the sort of stick figures and ones in the corner of the party. And it’s like, they don’t know the blah, blah. I was thinking about that and I was like, they don’t know that I was about to break up with you.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Okay.

Riese: Yikes.

Analyssa: Yeah. Let’s get into the worst scene of this episode, I think. So Carrie, as I said, does not take Shane’s advice and she’s like, I’m going to force myself to be friends with Bette Porter, which is just famously not how Bette Porter works.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I’ve already said famously twice on the pod today. If I say it again…

Riese: Then you’re not going to be famous anymore, we’re going to cut you off the fame list.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: We’re going to put you right down to the D list. Right now you’re on the A list.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: You’re welcome.

Analyssa: She’s asking if she can sit at Bette’s table, if you know, she’s trying to make nice, Bette sort of blows her off and Carrie, as Riese said, overshares and says…

Carrie: So funny. I just had a total flashback from my high school in Staten Island, that when I would ask all the cool girls if I could sit with them at lunch, they would just like, you know, whisper, “She’s such a dyke.”
Bette: Oh god, I’m so sorry. That was obviously not my intention.
Carrie: Oh no, I didn’t mean that.
Bette: At all.
Carrie: No, no, no, no.
Bette: Right.

Analyssa: And then, because Carrie has said, “They used to call me a dyke.” So Bette says that — I genuinely am stunned. I don’t know what to say. So Bette says, “That happened to me too at soccer camp, there were these girls who called it me,” and then she uses the N-word, and then “a dyke.” And the thing about it is to me, I was like, when she started the story, I was like, oh, we’re doing a thing where we’re all bonding about how some of us have been called dykes in high school. And, some of us have been bullied, and it never seemed like she was trying to bond in good faith, but it seemed kind of like a Bette Porter, everyone’s been through that experience, so sure. But because of the escalation of what she shares, which in the universe of The L Word, if that is Bette’s experience, then sure.

Drew: I don’t know what they’re trying to accomplish with this scene, because then the scene continues and it’s not that one moment, like Bette continues to be—

Riese: It keeps getting worse.

Carrie: I guess that I just wanted your blessing maybe, or just acceptance would be nice.
Bette: You know what? If you think what you have with Tina is working and you feel really good about it, then I don’t see why you would care what I think about you.

Drew: I think it’s something we’ve talked about a lot with The L Word, past and present, is that sometimes they will pair these things that are actual issues to talk about with a character in the wrong. And so then you’re like, wait, what do you want us to think here? Because yeah, Bette experiences racism that Carrie does not understand. That’s not what this is about though, so why are you having Bette express that when, like in this… It just, it undermines like—

Riese: It undermines how terrible it is.

Drew: Yeah. And I just—

Riese: And how traumatic it is.

Drew: And I just don’t really know what they want our… Do they want our response to be that Bette and Carrie are equally at fault here or equally right? Is that what they want us to feel? Because it feels rough.

Riese: I mean, it’s so… Because first of all, Carrie is being, I mean, she’s being inappropriate also. I had secondhand embarrassment for her. Because I was like, first of all, why are you bringing that… Bringing up that you were bullied in high school, it was so… And also she’s already a little bit drunk. And so you’re a little bit nervous about where this could go.

Analyssa: This is the thing where I agree with Bette, that this is a person who I would not want to engage with a ton at this party in this moment. I would also try to blow off this type of person in my life.

Riese: But look, Shane just did it. A lot better.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: But again, it’s just like, so am I supposed to think that Bette handled this correctly? Or am I supposed to think Carrie is being awkward and so Bette should have done it like this? It doesn’t make sense. And the thing is, it’s fine to not want to be friends with your person’s new person, that is allowed. And Drew, to your point about Bette, you don’t need to tell people specifically about the thing, she could have just been like, look…

Riese: I’m on a date.

Analyssa: Yeah. “I have someone with me. I will be civil because of Tina, but we’re… I’m not going to do this friend thing.”

Riese: Yeah. And also, because Carrie can’t assume that Bette is going to want to spend the night with her. Like you can’t just show up and be like, I’ve decided this is what we’re doing.

Drew: Totally.

Riese: You know what I mean? So like, and then it’s like, I don’t know what the show wants us to think. Because they’re both wrong.

Drew: Sure they’re both… they’re, yeah.

Riese: Like when I write out the squabble, I don’t know who wins. No one.

Analyssa: No one won. And again, in Bette Porter sharing instances of racism, I would like to clear cuttedly be on her side. I would like to be like, that was fucked and we should talk about that. I don’t want to be like, why would you say that now?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: That’s… I don’t want to have conflicted feelings about that. I want to be like, yes, you experienced racism and that’s bad. We should not… I don’t know.

Drew: There’s an interesting thing that the show could have done, which I don’t think — and maybe they were trying to do this and I don’t necessarily think it’s working, which is to say that Carrie has an energy of being nice, being friendly, being chatty. I mean, it reminds me of conversations around the show Ted Lasso and stuff that that shows exploring, I think quite well this season, of sometimes the person who is the most, “Well, I want to be friends with everybody!” That that’s not actually kind. That’s not actually nice. It’s not thoughtful. It’s not listening. And so I do think there’s something that’s interesting as far as, Carrie is Tina’s new partner and Bette is still clearly heartbroken over it and that Carrie’s intense energy… I don’t know, like there’s things to explore. There’s also things to explore as far as identities and the different ways the two of them move through the world, and the different things that they’ve experienced in their life. And there is a nuanced, interesting conversation to be had about the fact that when you look at the two of them, Bette is clearly being mean to Carrie. But that doesn’t inherently mean that she’s in the wrong and Carrie’s in the right for being, quote, unquote, nice. But I don’t feel like that was handled well because it’s so skewed and Bette’s so cruel and that if that is what they’re going for, I don’t necessarily… That’s such a complicated thing to unpack and I don’t necessarily feel like they lived in the complication enough. And so instead it was just like, wow!

Riese: I don’t think they thought through enough, why on earth Carrie would come to this event?

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Or…

Drew: Why was she volunteering?

Riese: Why… She explains why she’s coming, but it doesn’t make sense.

Drew: When you’re in high school and people are bullying you, you have nowhere to go. You’re in a, whatever your class size is, like those are the people in your life. The great thing about being an adult is that when you, when I meet people now who remind me of assholes I went to high school with, I go, “Oh, you remind me of assholes I went to high school with. You are not going to be in my life”. Or because Bette has to be in Carrie’s life, it’d be like “I’m going to smile and kill you with kindness, but not interact with you whenever I don’t have to, and we don’t need to be friends.” Clearly Carrie has a lot of damage and has not confronted those old wounds, and is projecting a lot onto the admittedly very toxic, very scary environment that is The L Word’s lesbian universe. So that is really interesting to me, and it feels realistic to me. I just don’t know what we’re supposed to think about Bette’s reaction to it.

Analyssa: Okay. Let’s all continue to chew on that and just move on, but I’m sorry, Dani needs an advanced team for every event she gets invited to right now.

Drew: Oh my God!

Riese: Because every time she walks in and is stunned that the people who have broken her heart are there, and I just feel like someone should go do the groundwork, come back outside and say “Okay, I’m prepping you. They’re standing over there. They’re standing over there.”

Drew: They’re not standing, they’re kissing!

Riese: Another bold choice this evening, from Carrie and from Dani. And also no one in this fucking writer’s room said “You know what, all of our characters have names that end with I or IE”. All of them!

Analyssa: I said that, and I really didn’t feel like you guys latched onto it as much as I wanted to, and it’s crazy.

Riese: You’re correct. You’re correct. It is insane. All of the new characters, all of them. Literally every single one of them, except Micah.

Drew: Yeah, Micah and Mirabel. But, yeah.

Riese: Like Sophie, Dani, Jordi, Angie, Finley.

Drew: Wow. Oh I forgot about Jordi.

Analyssa: Gigi, Carrie.

Riese: Gigi, Carrie.

Drew: Wow. What’s happening?

Riese: All we have is Nat and Micah.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Both of whom are in and out. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Who we aren’t talking about enough. I’ve said the “I” sound so much on this podcast.

Riese: Yeah, someone needs to go in and fix this ASAP.

Drew: Fascinating.

Analyssa: Change all their names immediately.

Riese: Dani, also, why are you going to this event alone?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: You know who probably would go with you, and who’s not doing anything? Is Gigi.

Drew: Well, Dani’s going to the event to talk to Bette, right?

Analyssa: Oh, right, she’s—

Drew: Dani is going to be like, “Hey Bette, we’re having a good time at this event. So how would you feel if I hooked up with your ex-girlfriend?”

Riese: Oh right.

Drew: “Who you’re clearly still in love with, because who wouldn’t be in love with Gigi?”

Riese: Her little mission, yeah, I should talk—

Analyssa: Dani’s here to ask Bette—

Riese: She doesn’t want anyone to get hurt like she was hurt.

Drew: Really nice.

Analyssa: It’s very sweet, but it’s very silly to imagine Dani here to ask Bette for Gigi’s hand in relationship. It doesn’t make any sense, because Bette could not care less about Gigi, and I wish that Dani would just accept that. But we’re on our way to that, because she goes into the bathroom to avoid Sophie and Finley kissing…

Drew: Yeah. Nat and Alice are having stall sex.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: What number sex would you rank bathroom stall sex?

Analyssa: It’s low for me.

Riese: I would say low. Yeah, I would say low.

Drew: Clean bathroom stall sex?

Riese: Right. I don’t know if I’ve done it in a clean bathroom.

Analyssa: My experience is all in bar bathrooms, or party bathrooms, which are not great. What did you put ex-sex at, 11?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And then I argued up to 7?

Drew: I would put bathroom stall sex at a 7.

Analyssa: Fascinating. I would say…

Drew: Yeah, I’ve had some good bathroom stall sex.

Analyssa: I would say highest is 13.

Riese: On a 1 to 10 scale?

Drew: No, no, no. Ranking the best sexes.

Riese: Oh yeah. It would be pretty far down there for me.

Drew: Like in the teens?

Riese: I think we’re supposed to believe that Nat has an incredibly high sex drive.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Like, wildly high sex drive.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Wildly high sex drive, and loves for it to be in public.

Drew: In public, yes.

Analyssa: The thing about this is that, it’s fine to fuck in bathroom stall. They’re at a fancy event.

Drew: No, it’s not the time.

Analyssa: So Dani says that she’s here to talk to Bette, and Nat and Alice are like, “No, there’s no need.”

Riese: They’re so mean.

Analyssa: You don’t need to do that. Bette doesn’t give a shit.

Riese: Yeah, Bette doesn’t care at all. Take Gigi off our hands. I’m like, you guys, stop.

Analyssa: Everyone is so mean about Gigi. It’s so weird.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t get it.

Analyssa: But they’re like take the Gigi off our hands. Also, Nat reveals…

Nat: And for what it’s worth, Gigi’s really into you.
Dani: Oh.
Nat: Yeah. I had lunch with her the other day and I haven’t seen her like this in a long time.

Riese: Oh yeah. That was cute.

Analyssa: Which I thought was sweet. I think Drew thought it was inappropriate.

Drew: Yeah. I think you should… Look, it’s nice, but I mean you don’t… I don’t know. I think you—

Riese: They have no respect for Gigi, they don’t care about her boundaries.

Drew: Yeah. They should have respected that privacy of—

Analyssa: Nat and Alice are meddlers at heart, and that’s why they like having sex in public places, for some reason.

Drew: The next thing that happens, is one of those things that makes me want to scream, which is that—

Analyssa: Speaking of inappropriate.

Drew: Yeah. Finley apologizes to Dani, but not to actually apologize to Dani. Finley apologizes to Dani with the purpose of saying to Dani, “You were a good partner to Sophie. How do I be a better partner to Sophie?” That’s wild!

Riese: She’s like, “You’re an adult”. Like, “I’m trying to be an adult and you’re so…” She’s like, “I don’t know, get a job?”

Drew: That’s so not Dani’s problem. Are you kidding?

Riese: Yeah. And also like, I mean, it’s funny because they’re throwing back to the earlier scene, where Dani’s like, “We’re the same age” and Dani’s like, “and the similarities end there,” which is like what Finley said earlier. But I think what Dani ends up getting to say about this is so real.

Drew: Yes. It’s my favorite line of the show.

Dani: I’m so sick of people thinking I have it together. Because all that means is that, unlike you, people aren’t inclined to hold me when I need it most. And if you ever use that against me, so help me, God. I will actually kill you.

Drew: Oh yeah. As an earth sign, I really related to that.

Riese: Right. I also like it when a Finley is like—

Finley: Can I hug you?
Dani: No.

Analyssa: Again, Finley, always trying to do the sort of, quote, “good to other people” thing, but very rarely is it the correct “good for other people.” She’s like, “Oh, Dani has admitted something personal. Maybe I should hug her.” It’s like, you’re the one millionth person that Dani would like to hug. There’s so many people ahead of you.

Drew: Yeah. It’s similar to what I was saying about Carrie, where you’re like, “Oh, it’s the nice thing to do.” And you’re like, “but it’s not the kind of thing to do.”

Riese: Right. I don’t think they know what Finley has been doing since between the ages of 18 and 25.

Analyssa: She got kicked out and then she popped back up fully formed, through a time hole into Los Angeles.

Riese: I feel like she would have gone to a state college or something. Just the sense that she’s had to charm her way into her life. Which is good, she’s built up a lot of charm, but she hasn’t really built a resume.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Okay. Now speaking of charm. Bette and Pippa are flirting, because Pippa is so bad at poker, and Bette is into Pippa being off kilter. And they’re chatting, they go to the bar and then their faces get real close to each other and they kiss. And then they decide to leave the party. This is the second event in a row that Bette has left early.

Riese: Yeah. For Pippa.

Analyssa: For Pippa.

Riese: It seems like it’s kind of ending though, right? Is it?

Drew: What?

Riese: The event?

Drew: Yeah, I think it’s winding down.

Analyssa: For sure.

Riese: Who won, do you think?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: Shane, probably. I have no idea.

Riese: Shane, yeah. You know what? This would have been a great time for a Papi cameo.

Drew: Again, I think I would have been way more excited about this if I wasn’t souring on Bette as much as I am.

Analyssa: I agree.

Drew: I was also like, okay, that’s nice. I hope your… Stay safe, Pippa, I don’t love that you’re tied professionally and personally with this person, who’s like, “I will protect you. I will take care of you.” I’m like, okay. I hope Bette’s not kidding. I hope you’re really the special one. Cause I’m a little bit scared for you.

Analyssa: Yeah, don’t say anything Bette might really dislike. Cause then you could be in the splash zone, not in a fun way. Also at the bar is Nat, who is flirting with someone who is not Alice, and Alice hates it. And Nat comes over and is like, “oh my God, that woman at the bar asked me if you’re Alice from TV.” Like, wants to bond over having just flirted with someone else at the bar, and Alice doesn’t like it. And so of course it’s time for a big, big talk, which is to say no talk at all, just basically nothing’s changed. We’re having sex and it’s fun, but it’s not going to work.

Drew: Yeah. And Alice is like, “Why do you have to make me be the one to say this?” And I think that’s true. I do think that at this point, it is, I think, on Nat to equally be like… Not to act clueless, I was a little annoyed with Nat for acting so clueless. No, you know that the feelings are still there and the problems are still there, and you know what you want from a relationship, and you know what Alice wants, and they’re not the same thing. And it’s sad, but that happens sometimes, and stop doing this.

Analyssa: Yeah. Especially in this moment, did Nat have to flirt with someone else at the bar? Like, we could have… Anyway.

Riese: Yeah. I feel like that’s Nat’s whole personality now.

Drew: Well, polyamorous people are monsters.

Riese: That is true. It is an accurate representation of the poly community. They can’t contain themselves.

Drew: They just cannot control themselves. Not once could they be like, “Oh, I’m here with one person. And that person doesn’t like when I flirt with other people. So I’m going to control myself tonight.” Never could anyone have those boundaries.

Analyssa: No. They’re flirting all the time.

Riese: Flirting all the time. Yeah.

Analyssa: Then, speaking of big talks, this is not a big talk. Jordi and Angie are sitting where the promposal happened, and they’re chatting and Angie’s like, “I’m so relieved.” And I thought she was going to say, “I thought that you were blowing me off for a couple of weeks.” And Jordi is like, “I know it’s been so crazy. I’ve been planning, but of course I didn’t want to blow the secret.” And I think what they’re trying to do is the thing, Drew, you were saying, I think they’re trying to… It’s not really a retcon, but they’re trying to quickly be like, Angie has been distant because she’s been planning—

Riese: She’s planning a dance?

Analyssa: Because she’s been planning this event, and she doesn’t want to blow the secret. But the thing that doesn’t make sense about that is, if you were trying to keep a secret about prom, you wouldn’t actually keep bringing up prom. You would maybe even say, “Tell me more about your dad, actually. Let’s talk about that.”

Riese: Also, honestly, Jordi’s part in the dance was pretty minimal. The girls did all the fucking legwork, and umbrellas, the umbrellas basically danced for them. She literally walked forward, walked back, waved an umbrella in the air. Come on.

Drew: So Carrie has responded to her interaction with Bette by getting absolutely shit-faced, and is not leaving, even though the event has ended, or is ending. Tess is trying to help and talk to her, and then Shane comes over to talk to Carrie. And then Shane’s like, “I’m going to take you home. It’s on the way.” Which it probably isn’t.

Analyssa: Because Tess is like, “Let’s drive her home because she shouldn’t Lyft”. And Shane’s is like, “You want me to drive her home?”

Riese: No, because she’s like, “I don’t want her to throw up in a Lyft,” and Shane’s like, “Well you want her to throw up in my car?” And Tess is like, “Yeah”. And it’s just like, alright.

Analyssa: I know that this is a rough time for Carrie, but I love her being wasted and being like—

Carrie: Yeah, I’m a lawyer.
Tess: That’s great.
Carrie: I passed the bar in two states actually.

Riese: I know, and she was like, “I have money.”

Analyssa: We talked about this with Bette and Gigi too, she’s just different, for reasons, some of which make sense, and some of which are just inherent to the characters in this show, that’s never going to work, that she’s different.

Riese: But then it was like, I didn’t know… This is when I was like, “are we supposed to think she actually was in AA?” Because at first I was like, “Well Tess might recognize her”, and after I was like, “but Tess Tess probably wouldn’t call that out,” because she wouldn’t call that out. Because are we supposed to see Carrie as somebody who drank too much tonight out of nerves and acted the way she did, or somebody who relapsed tonight, into something that she’s already decided she shouldn’t do in her life, but is still doing? And that’s a very different story, I think.

Analyssa: Yeah, and it has different feelings wrapped up in it. I watched this as, I almost said, “I read this as,” which I guess applies… But as she got drunk out of nerves and tried to feel better, which is still not great.

Riese: But I did love Tess and Shane as parents, that they both were willing to leave the event to make sure she got home safe. This was very different than the way Max was treated. I mean, Tess is an adult, and now I guess Shane is an adult too.

Drew: Love that for her.

Analyssa: Speaking of drunk adults. So Finley and Sophie are leaving the event too, they’re holding hands, they’re cute. Finley tells Sophie that she talked to Dani, Sophie thinks that this is kind of vaguely funny, which is not how I would’ve reacted. Finley says, “I thought I could get tips from Dani,” basically, “on how to love you better.” And Sophie does the thing you would do, which is like—

Sophie: You are so charming.
Finley: Yeah. But not in a good way.
Sophie: Oh, come on. You charmed the pants off of Barry.
Finley: I told him he was good looking. That’s not…
Sophie: Yes, yes. And he loved it. And you were just yourself. You know, that’s hard to do. I can’t do that shit.
Finley: Really?
Sophie: Yeah.
Finley: Okay.
Sophie: I lose myself all the time. Lose myself at work, I lost myself with Dani. Oh, you just… I can just be myself with you. I don’t have to think about it.

Riese: Which I thought was kind of cute.

Drew: Yeah, that’s nice.

Analyssa: I do think that’s sweet.

Riese: But it was also like once they got to the car and were standing outside of the car, and drinking out of a flask, and about to get into the car and drive home, I immediately lost my mind and was unable to concentrate for the rest of the episode.

Analyssa: While they were standing next to the van kissing, or the whatever, kissing, I was like, “Surely they’re not getting into this car? They’re waiting for a Lyft or they’re going to walk away.” And then they’re kissing up against the car, and I was like, “Well, this is a weird…” And then I thought maybe Dani might show up. I was expecting different drama. And then Finley takes a big pull out of a flask, and then 30 seconds later, fewer, five seconds later. Sophie goes, “You’re good to drive, right?” So they get in the car.

Riese: I mean, I am assuming, Finley is an alcoholic, so Finley is probably very used to driving drunk. And Sophie probably thinks it’s fine, but also, it’s obviously not fine. And we’ve seen them have, how many drinks? Three? And they’ve only been on camera for like, 15 seconds.

Drew: Yeah. It’s not…

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s stressful to me.

Riese: Because I mean, in a TV show when someone’s like, “Are you okay to drive?” and they’re drunk, you know something’s being set up.

Analyssa: Immediately, something bad is going to happen.

Riese: And I was like, “Fuck, you guys!” In all caps, I wrote, “ARE YOU OKAY TO DRIVE SHE SAYS AS FINLEY IS DRINKING FROM A FLASK”

Analyssa: Does a pull from a flask, then gets directly into a car. There’s no way.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: No!

Riese: Nope.

Analyssa: What you should have said is, “Did you just see me take the pull off the flask? Let’s get a Lyft. Let’s walk for a while, maybe.” Anything.

Riese: Right. Because even if she is okay to drive, even if Sophie honestly believes that she’s okay to drive, it’s also not legal for her to drive. And that’s a really bad situation. Finley barely has any money, she cannot afford any of this for many reasons. Anyway. Anyway!

Analyssa: Anyway.

Riese: Something more exciting happened, which I did watch on my second go round.

Analyssa: Which you were able to see when you watched it again.

Riese: Which I was able to see, cause I had already seen it.

Analyssa: Dani has gone over to Gigi’s and is ringing her doorbell in the middle of the night, and it’s lightly starting to rain, which we will see a lot more of, I’ll tell you what. And Gigi’s like—

Gigi: You’re a lot more dramatic than I thought.

Analyssa: I agree with Gigi that this is quite dramatic.

Drew: It is very dramatic. I really, really like this couple though. Dani says that she’s been hurt a lot, and basically does a little light slut shaming of Gigi.

Riese: Yeah, I didn’t care for that, cause I have had that exact same thing said to me, and I’m like, literally we were at an event… what… did you think was going to happen?

Drew: Right. It’s not good. But what I liked is that, by taking a beat, like they were able to take… Instead of Gigi just getting upset or whatever, they were able to get at the actual… What Dani was actually trying to get at was—

Riese: Do you really like me?

Drew: Do you really like me?

Riese: Or do you like everyone?

Analyssa: Do you just like hooking up with people?

Riese: Which, obviously, fair question.

Analyssa: Gigi does love flirting with people. So that’s fair.

Drew: Yeah. So I liked that they eventually got there, and it does go to show that, not that you should be okay with people being mean to you, but sometimes taking a second instead of immediately getting sensitive and upset, to actually ask a followup question, can lead to good things. And what it leads to this time is a kiss in the rain!

Analyssa: A pretty good kiss.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: The L Word loves kissing, and I love kissing also. And I love when The L Word loves kissing. The amount of hair must be discussed.

Riese: Also, as a Jew, I’m just like, “it’s raining, and their hair is out.”

Drew: No, I would never.

Riese: And the frizz. I can already see it collecting.

Analyssa: You can see it start to build, but also as a person with I’m sure a similar hair texture to Dani, which is vaguely wavy, not super tight curls, that is going to explode. She’s going to get so puffy. And she had a nice blowout. She ruined the blowout. Gigi at least has some bedhead. Dani just wasted whatever work or money she put into her hair for this evening.

Drew: I’ve been very “I don’t want to get my hair wet, I don’t want to get my hair wet,” because I’m very precious about it. I would get my hair wet to kiss Gigi in the rain. I just want to go on the record to say that.

Analyssa: I would also kind of get my hair wet to kiss Dani in the rain. I’ll say. I think she’s very beautiful.

Drew: Do we want to break them up? And then just like, take…

Analyssa: No, I’m happy to just watch them kiss in the rain for now. But Gigi is like, “Come in,” and Dani is like, “No, no, no. Not yet. But let’s keep kissing outside.”

Riese: Yeah. She wants to take it slow. She’s such a proper lady in her proper lady dress.

Drew: I think it was more about emotional damage of the whole…

Riese: Yeah. I mean, it is true… People fuck on the first night on this program.

Analyssa: Frequently.

Riese: I would say. I mean like Tom and Alice, that was their first… He thought about being with her for how long? 15, 16 minutes? And then they were already romping around in the hay having sex that we thought was boring.

Analyssa: 30 minutes before they were fully inside each other, he was like, “I’m going to set you up with someone.” And Alice had to be like, “No, I’m hitting on you.”

Riese: Yeah. And then they’re bang, bang, bang. And that is the same for all of the couples. They really just go home and bang.

Drew: I appreciate this not hooking up on the first date representation.

Riese: Right, cause we’re about to get hooking up on the first date representation.

Analyssa: Soon.

Riese: This is a very sexy episode. Honestly, everyone in this episode was so horny.

Drew: Yeah. I love that.

Riese: It was bursting at the gills, which was very enjoyable. My note for the Dani/Gigi scene is, “I’m still really stressed out about Finley driving.”

Analyssa: Anyway, the image of these two women with thick, luscious, very long hair, both their hands are in the other person’s hair. If they moved in together… I recently lived with someone, my roommate, who had very long, very thick hair, and I have decently long hair. Disgusting. It’s everywhere. You’ll never not find it.

Riese: You guys are gonna do great.

Drew: Yeah, I was about to be like, “I hate to break it to you about your new roommate, but…”

Analyssa: No, but that’s the thing. They’ll never not find each other’s hairs in the bathroom, in the kitchen. Anyway, not the point.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So one last thing with Carrie, and then we can talk about more fun stuff. Carrie is drunk, Shane and Tess have gotten Carrie home, and they’re getting her into the house. They’re being very sweet, very kind.

Riese: And she’s so sad. She’s like, “You people are all so beautiful.”

Analyssa: It’s really sad.

Riese: Not to rag on Tina again. But Tina, have they texted tonight?

Analyssa: Right?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I know that Tina is out of town or busy or whatever, but—

Riese: How busy?

Analyssa: I think that this calls for a phone call or something.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Also, why didn’t Shane call Tina? I guess, because for some reason they refused to put Tina in scenes with Shane and Alice?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Who they were also, for some reason, friends with Tina.

Drew: Yeah. My explanation is that in the Bette breakup, things got bad with Shane and Alice also, it’s the only explanation.

Analyssa: Yeah. But, now in 2021, Tina and Bette are cordial, she’s around because of Angie. So Shane, especially who’s deeply involved in Angie’s life could be…

Riese: They did have lunch or something in season one, I think altogether? Maybe or just Shane? Anyway, poor Carrie.

Analyssa: Yeah. And it made me really sad too, because it’s a direct callback to when Carrie and Tina have dinner at Bette and Gigi’s first date and Tina is like, “You’re beautiful.”

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: And Carrie got emotional.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I did love the moment, I think it’s earlier when Carrie’s like, “I was supposed to have a great night. I have a little sharp suit on.”

Riese: “I got a new outfit.”

Analyssa: You do look cute. It’s fine.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: These people are mean, don’t let them bully you.

Drew: They’re very mean.

Riese: Except for Shane and Tess who are little perfect angels walking her home.

Drew: Yeah.

Shane: We’re going to get you settled in warm and I promise you, it’s going to be okay.
Tess: Yeah. We’re going to get you water and a cozy bed.
Carrie: I don’t think you guys understand, I just can’t live like this, the rest of my life. I don’t think I can marry Tina.

Drew: I do think that Carrie is 60 years old and should not be this fragile, but I don’t think it’s unrealistic for this 60-year-old queer to be this fragile and I’m finding it to be very interesting. I found everything with her this episode, again, from the Bette perspective, I don’t really know what’s going on, but from a Carrie point of view, I find this whole thing with her to be very interesting.

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: I think also, she’s a public defender?

Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Riese: That’s really cool and great.

Drew: That’s so cool.

Analyssa: Again—

Riese: I mean Max had nothing going on.

Analyssa: Again—

Riese: Oh, wait, that’s not true he had many computers.

Drew: He invented computers.

Analyssa: He invented computers, please respect him.

Drew: And he had that beard.

Riese: Right. But not yet.

Analyssa: She’s passed the bar in two states.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That is hard. She’s smart and savvy and—

Riese: She gets in front of courtrooms every day. I know what I was going to say, actually, I was like, is this one of those things where when I’m 60, I’m going to look back at 39-year-old me saying, “Wow, that 60 year old should really get her mental health together,” and think that I was completely wrong because I, a 60-year-old woman will be like, “I’ve been on antidepressants,” to Shane at the bar. Probably.

Analyssa: Maybe I will be 60 and still very concerned about how hot people think I am.

Riese: I have learned, though, not to have a ton of drinks and I am only 39. So, there is that.

Drew: I feel like even just in the years that I’ve known you, you’ve changed.

Riese: I have.

Analyssa: That’s nice to say. Carrie says, “I don’t think I can marry Tina.” And you get the sense that this is like a crystallization of a bunch of stuff, but it does feel like there’s one conversation to be had before… It felt very much like Angie being like, “Have you ever broken up with someone?” Because she’s mad at Jordi. Tina was like, “Do it. Break up.” You guys, there are some conversations to be had about Tina and how much they want to be in Bette’s life. And what if they hang out with Carrie’s friends?

Drew: What if they went back… They don’t live in LA, they weren’t living in LA.

Riese: She lives in LA tonight.

Analyssa: Right, there’s a house here.

Drew: I know that. But they weren’t so, go back to what you were doing before.

Drew: Speaking of Bette.

Riese: Speaking of Bette.

Drew: Bette brings Pippa to an art thing, it’s the triangle of light.

Riese: Yeah. That’s a lot.

Analyssa: It’s art.

Riese: It’s art.

Drew: And, Bette loves to have sex on art and they sure do. And even though I’m feeling complicated about Bette, it is very hot.

Analyssa: It’s really hot and also very beautifully shot.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: It’s high-end sex scene for The L Word, I think.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s lovely to look at.

Riese: And we do at long last, see what? The hand on the back.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: We were watching and I pointed, you know that meme of Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the screen?

Riese: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Analyssa: And I was like, promo shot.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: We found it.

Riese: Bette’s nice lacy bra and Pippa’s hand in the light. They love lighting.

Analyssa: The light’s are genuinely very cool, as I’ve already said, but why is everyone having sex at their place of business?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: It’s so frequent in this show.

Riese: Because it’s fun to look at.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I’ve never seen Bette work on a computer as fast as she did in that room. She was like…

Riese: She knew how to— How’s Kismet going to feel about this?

Analyssa: I was going to say—

Riese: Probably good, I guess.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: What is the installation? You get to pick your own lights? Is it that Bette — whatever, it’s fine.

Riese: It’s that you get to have sex with somebody, an artist that you admire under the lighting of your choice. And that has appeal. That’s experiential art.

Analyssa: On a cold, gallery floor.

Riese: On a cold gallery floor. Yes. It’s no overnight jail for protesting.

Drew: Sex in a museum or a gallery would be cool. I’d be into that. I don’t know how it would happen, but…

Riese: I’ve had sex in the parking lot of an art museum.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, we’re playing a quick round of, “I have, I would, I wouldn’t” and we hit all three. Riese says, “I have,” Drew says, “I would,” Ana, “I wouldn’t.” Okay. Good for us. Okay. Tess and Shane are leaving Carrie’s.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Yeah. And she’s like, “Were you that kind of drunk?” And Tess is like, “Oh, I was much worse, but she didn’t break a bone or a dish,” and that was funny.

Analyssa: And then they’re getting—

Riese: Everyone wants their hair to get fucked up tonight, apparently.

Analyssa: And they had an umbrella. They didn’t have—

Riese: No one is thinking about the frizz, everyone’s just thinking about the mouth.

Analyssa: When you kiss in the rain, is it as much water in between your two faces as when you have sex in the shower? I had an ex who was really into shower sex.

Riese: I don’t like shower sex.

Analyssa: I didn’t either. I mean, it’s fun to have sex with someone who you like, you know, I enjoyed it. But when you hit a weird angle and the faucet means that there’s just a stream of water down both of your faces in between where your mouths are touching. That’s a pass for me, and is raining like that? I guess there’s not as much water.

Drew: It depends on the kind… I mean, I would say don’t make out during a tropical storm.

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: I would say do.

Drew: What?

Riese: Make out during a tropical storm.

Drew: But I mean, do it inside with protective windows.

Riese: No. Do it outside.

Drew: But—

Riese: Make out in a hurricane.

Drew: Yeah. I think it depends on… Same with the water pressure of the shower, it depends on the water pressure or the rain.

Analyssa: Never loved it.

Riese: Speaking of people who are horny in an inappropriate location.

Analyssa: So true. Finley and Sophie are driving and they’re looking at each other in love a lot.

Riese: But Sophie’s reaching over and Finley is obviously like, “I’m driving drunk, so I’m doing it. I’m on this.”

Analyssa: 10 and 2, looking forward. Sophie is being pretty annoying. I get that this is a cute thing if nothing goes wrong.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: As we know something goes wrong, so now it’s annoying. But, I don’t remember if I said this in the first season, but anytime two characters are in a car, I expect that there’s going to be a car accident. The reason I think about it in the first season is because Sophie and Dani were driving to their wedding venues. And it was a lot of, through the windows, we’re looking at them driving. And I was like, a car is going to come and T-bone them.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And that’s what I thought was going to happen here too.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: This is the most car crash preparation scene of all time.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: You are just expecting it the whole time.

Riese: Because she sticks Finley’s hands down her pants.

Analyssa: They’re going to do some car sex.

Drew: Would everybody like to say if they would have—

Analyssa: While driving? I simply would not.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I’m going to get vulnerable. I don’t know that I’m good enough with my hands in a stationary sort of situation where I don’t have to be focusing. I’m self-conscious about that when we’re just in a bed. Few variables.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s some personal stuff. That’s fine.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: In a car? There’s no way I can do both.

Riese: Right. I mean if Finley has really long arms…

Analyssa: I wish that the listeners could see my enactment of one hand on the wheel and one arm out just, seems acrobatic in a way that’s not—

Drew: And it feels unsafe in a way that doesn’t… I don’t like it.

Riese: So, I was just like, as soon as she started doing that, I was like, oh my God, oh my God.

Analyssa: You watched this stressfully for a few minutes, not minutes, but it feels eternal. And then of course they don’t get hit by a car, which is—

Riese: Thank God.

Analyssa: … good.

Riese: Or hit someone else.

Analyssa: But there are sirens and a cop is coming. And again in a, this would be cute if we weren’t in a serious situation, but now it’s kind of annoying because it’s serious. Sophie’s like, “But you’re okay. You’re okay. Right?” Like, “You’re okay. Right?” The whole thing… Of course she’s not.

Riese: Giggling about it and putting—

Drew: Which also feels just weird race-wise?

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: I was just a little bit confused by that.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Analyssa: Right. With all of the things that this show wants to talk about.

Riese: Yeah. It’s weird that Sophie wouldn’t be more aware of that. In fact, not just more aware, but incredibly hyper aware.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I feel like Finley’s aware of it because she probably drives drunk so often that it’s always on her mind. But I feel like Sophie would be very much more aware of it than she is in this scene as well.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Again, the sobriety storylines, it’s just not doing it for me.

Riese: Well get ready because Finley is about to be going to AA with Tess.

Analyssa: Right. Well, that’s the thing. This is what I wish. It feels like this is going to be a culmination — in combo with the rest of what happened in this episode — of Finley’s irresponsible and she needs to get her life together with regard to sobriety. They can go together, a person who is very goofy and doesn’t really have career aspirations can also need to get help for drinking.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: But those are so separate.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: They’re not the same issue and it feels, intentionally or not, coming at the end of this episode is like, Finley just fucks around and doesn’t care. And now she’s going to have to get serious and admit that something is wrong.

Riese: Her and Sophie are equally at fault for what just happened.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: And Sophie is even drunk… who knows? But they’re both wasted, neither of them should be driving. And they both made the decision and Sophie instigated the sex.

Analyssa: Well, and Sophie asked Finley to drive. Everyone made bad choices, I’m not saying that. I just don’t love the conflation of, Finley’s irresponsible and that actually points to a bigger problem. Sometimes people are just irresponsible and also sometimes people have very serious problems with alcohol. It seems like Finley has both, but the show doesn’t seem to care that much about pulling those apart.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: It’s all wrapped up into goofball Finley. And again, I realized that sometimes things ping for you in a personal way where you’re like, I’m mad about this actually, me. But it just feels kind of easy for them to make this, the thing.

Riese: Right. But I feel like what they’re setting up is for this to be a conflict now between Finley and Sophie. Because they both played a part in what happened, but Finley is the one who has to deal with the consequences of it. And then Finley is going to have a hard time getting her life on track with everything that she’s going to be required to do as a person with a DUI. And then Sophie is going to hold that against her. And I can already see all of the fucking—

Analyssa: Or, maybe more annoyingly, she’s somehow going to get out of it. It’s actually not going to be a big thing.

Riese: That’s the other thing, The L Word, especially the Gen Q, and that’s what I said after I watched it the first time I was like, the other thing is though we had an episode where Sophie was visiting Dani and at the end, Dani was like, “What if you stayed the night?” And then she was like, nothing. We had an episode where we don’t even know what happened after that.

Analyssa: Right. Or that one where Shane left the bar and told Finley to lock up and then Finley just left at some point. The bar could have gotten robbed, we have no idea. There’s all these little things that—

Riese: Cherie Jaffe, they constantly are doing that where they have a big thing at the end and then it just disappears.

Analyssa: In the unknowable amount of time between episodes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well…

Riese: And that’s the episode.

Analyssa: I hate to end on that note.

Drew: And that’s the episode.

Analyssa: I feel like I got most of my thoughts out about this episode in that last section. I think the Carrie and Finley stuff is really tough and especially the Bette stuff was really tough. And I don’t really know where they’re going to take it or why it feels necessary to them.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: But it started off really strong, really good sex scene at the beginning and some good smooches, which I love.

Drew: Yeah. I would say that there are things that I’m like, “N-n-n,” and there’s also things that I don’t have issues with how they’re being handled as much as they’re just painful. And then there’s things I have issues with how they’re being handled. And then there’s stuff that’s fun. Did I like this episode? That’s a complicated question.

Riese: I don’t know. I don’t think I did.

Drew: Did I think it was a pretty good episode? Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree. I thought it was well done, well-made.

Riese: Mostly.

Drew: Mostly.

Analyssa: But it was a little bit like, not what I ordered.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: It felt like if a pretty good dish at a restaurant came out, but you were like, well, this isn’t really what I wanted though. That’s sort of how that felt to me.

Drew: Yeah. But I really like Gigi and Dani together. And I really like Dani talking about how some people don’t get to express their emotions the same way as other people do. And I really liked that.

Analyssa: And I liked Shane and Tess touching faces finally.

Riese: In the rain.

Analyssa: In the rain. Okay. One realistic thing about this is people in Los Angeles do make a big deal about it raining. And that’s what happened in The L Word too. But look, next week, we’re going to get a third event.

Drew: Oh right. Because the book launch.

Analyssa: It’s the book launch.

Riese: Oh yeah. We are. That’s going to be so thrilling, I’m so excited.

Analyssa: That’ll be fun.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at [email protected]. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason why we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Analyssa: My word is lottery.

Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Riese: Because you won it?

Analyssa: Because I feel like I won it with this episode. No, absolutely not. Because that could have been another fundraiser idea, lottery tickets, anything other than poker.

Riese: That’s illegal, but—

Analyssa: Will next week’s event be fun or not fun? We’ve had two and one of each. So, kind of a lottery situation. Will I win the lottery next week or not?

Drew: Yeah. Mine is lunch, because I think my feelings about this episode are similar to my feelings about lunch.

Riese: Lunch is my least favorite meal.

Analyssa: Lunch is my least favorite meal too.

Riese: I’m really annoyed by it.

Drew: It’s not my go-to meal, but usually, the snack aspect of lunch I really enjoy. If I’m having—

Riese: Yeah. Lunch is a series of snacks.

Drew: Right. But there’s usually the main snack, sometimes I’m iffy on, but then if I’m also like, oh but I also had chips or cookies, that’s the Gigi and Dani. And yes, I did also think of lunch and go, how am I going to justify it? Because I can’t have another episode where I can’t think of an L-word, that’s so embarrassing.

Analyssa: Yeah. Riese’s is—

Drew: And I can’t prepare ahead of time. I simply have too much else going on in my life.

Analyssa: Riese’s this week is lactose intolerant because she’s never said it before. No, go ahead. What is it?

Riese: Lactose intolerant.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Has Riese ever done lactose intolerant?

Drew: No. But I’m curious to hear why from this episode?

Riese: Because of the light show, I think, at the museum. And also because of the scenes with driving and eyebrows.

Analyssa: You’re right.

Drew: Maybe I don’t know what the word lactose intolerant means.

Riese: There was all this stuff about poker and Carrie.

Drew: And all this makes you want to have almond milk.

Riese: Bathroom sex. And that always brings me back to lactose intolerant.

Drew: Ah, yes.

Analyssa: I didn’t think she was going to land the plane, but you know what? She did, she did it, she landed it.

Riese: It’s like that movie where the guy landed the plane upside down. Did you see that movie?

Analyssa: Sully?

Drew: Sully? Or Flight?

Riese: No. The one where Denzel Washington was—

Drew: Flight, yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Well, you guys should see it.

Drew: No, you shouldn’t, it’s a really bad movie.

Riese: Better than Into the Wild.

Drew: There’s 40 better Denzel Washington movies you should watch before you watch Flight. Anyways…

Analyssa: Let’s call it.

Drew: Let’s call it.

Riese: That’s the end of it.

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Analyssa is a co-host of the To L and Back podcast: Gen Q edition. She lives in LA, works at a TV studio, and can often be found binge-watching an ABC drama from 2008. You can follow her on Twitter, Instagram, or her social media of choice, Letterboxd.

Analyssa has written 58 articles for us.


  1. Into the Wild is a terrible movie based off an even worse book. My pretentious, transcendentalist-idolizing 11th grade English teacher made us read it and watch the movie in class, which I protested very loudly and very often. He responded to my vocal protests by saying, “It’s fine, you’ll like it, I mean Kristen Stewart is in the movie! I bet you love Kristen Stewart!” so I took up the habit of yelling at him that not even Kristen Stewart could make Into the Wild worth it.

    Anyway, I had completely blocked out this memory until Riese mentioned Into the Wild in this podcast, so thanks for that, I guess.

      • The book is just as insufferable. Is Kristen Stewart the only good thing about that movie? Yes. And yet, I laughed about the podcast convo around staging her as somehow straight in those early films… I too have taken the KS filmography deep dive, Riese, and it is a trip. If you need to cleanse your palette after Into the Wild please watch Clouds of Sils Maria for some A+ “pseudosexual (professional) friendship” verve, to quote our friend Dani.

  2. I know you rarely touch on the soundtrack anymore, but I can’t help but marvel at the person whose job it is to select the songs. How does one find songs with lyrics that basically illustrate or verbalize the narrative unfolding and convey a queer LA / L Word soap romp sensibility? Seriously, how? I sort of love how heavy-handed and winking the soundtrack often is… as in the song that accompanies this opening sequence of “Light” (although nothing will never outstrip the absurd “Ass Like This” selection of S1.)

  3. OH, I had confused Into the Wild with the movie Wild, and the whole podcast i was so confused what role KS played in Wild and why the strong hatred… I am back on track now.

    Question, if Finley was kicked out at 18, how does that fit in with her going home to Missouri and hanging out with her grandpa and cousins? I get that it could coexist, maybe her relationship with her parents is strained but she’s close with her cousins—literally any explanation would help flesh out this backstory. Also, I thought Sophie and Finley were friends? This convo made it seem like they don’t know each other at all.

    Actually, my latest theory is that the writers are TRYING to write the characters as thinly as possible so we all have to get online and talk about possible reasons for all their behavior, which creates more buzz about the show.

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