Boob(s On Your) Tube: “Grey’s Anatomy” Gets Ready For Lesbian Divorce Court

It’s time to check in with the week in queer TV. I’ll have an Orphan Black rundown for you on Monday. I’ve got a sick girlfriend at home who needs some extra love and attention. Thank you for understanding! But hey, Carolyn and Aja are here to talk you through Grey’s and Empire! What else could you ask for on a Friday afternoon?


Wednesdays on Fox at 9:00 p.m.

Written by Carolyn Wysinger


What do you do when you lose your job, you don’t get nominated for any awards, and you find out you got a random woman pregnant? You go to the strip club of course. That’s where we find Hakeem at the top of Empire. I thought he was filming a video with the money and bubbles raining from the sky, and at least 50 woman twerking and making it clap while they stand on their heads while three more are working the pole. AZ Marie had a handheld machine that was spitting out dollar bills. Where does one get a money machine for the strip club? Okay, maybe I’m hating just a little bit. AZ Marie tries to stop the party when she notices that Laura is blowing up Hakeem’s phone but Hakeem is not interested. He is having the greatest pity party ever and he wants to keep it going.

The “First Family of Music” is having yet another ASA press conference. Lucious is busy trying to mack up Harper the journalist and Cookie is busy blocking. She continues to claim it’s not because of emotional attachment, but her facial expressions say otherwise. Cookie, Lucious and Thursty are discussing ways to bring the board back on Lucious’ side because Thursty has been getting indications that they are leaning toward bringing in an outside CEO. Lucious’ first inclination is to get violent with them, but, in the words of Cookie, “with two dead lesbos, that’s a bad look.” This new homophobic look on Cookie is so unsettling! The plan is to find a way to bring the family together so they can back Lucious, but that’s more than just a notion. Jamal is at this same press conference and the only thing anyone can talk about is the competition between father and son for the ASA award. When the three Lyons sit down to take questions, a reporter compares the competition to the movie beef between Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed. Lucious gives some epic shade when he says no, it’s more like George Foreman vs Oscar De La Hoya. SHADE!

Hakeem is lying in a pile of bubbles and women when Laura finally shows up. Apparently Hakeem and his goons have been working on an app that tells people when he does random pop-up shows. He forgot to turn it off so his whole pity party went viral and that’s how Laura found him there. When she confronts him about running to the strip club when he was in trouble instead of coming to her, he vets her intentions like she is one of his groupies. She is able to hang with all the L’s he has taken until he informs her that he got Anika pregnant. At that point, she slaps him and runs out.

The brothers have a meetup at the office. Hakeem is still hungover and moping around telling Andre he doesn’t understand how he feels with this baby coming and all. This family just can’t help hitting each other below the belt, but at least with the brothers they are always able to straighten things out. He apologizes to his brother and Andre goes on about the business of trying to get them both to appear at a mental health awareness event that he and Lucious are hosting to dupe the public into believing Lucious gives a damn about bipolar awareness.

Later, at the setup for the event, Jamal sees Michael who is there working for the event caterer. At first it’s a little awkward but they both agree that they need to talk and the head over to the local coffeehouse where they met. It doesn’t take long for the house band to call Jamal to the stage for a downhome jam session. It also doesn’t hurt the scene that my sister’s friend is on drums! Shoutout to Ruthie. Girl drummers rock!!

Anika visits Hakeem’s loft, which he has paid to have completely baby-proofed. He wants her to know that he is all in with raising their child but she doesn’t think she wants him involved at all. She doesn’t feel safe now that Lucious has threatened to kill her after the baby is born. Hakeem is shocked. I have no idea why.

Lucious is attempting to wine and dine Harper with a lobster dinner. It’s cut short, though, when Cookie busts in on them. There is an epic battle brewing between Cookie and Harper and I am here for all of it. Harper finally leaves so that Cookie and Hakeem can confront Lucious about threatening Anika. Lucious plays dumb, bu tI don’t know why he is wasting his energy. Hakeem vows that if Anika takes the baby and leaves with her mother that Lucious will never see him or the baby again. Cookie reminds Lucious that they need Hakeem to help pull off this farce of an advocacy event.

Cookie goes over to Anika’s house to try and convince her not to take the baby away, but when she gets there Anika is being wheeled out on a stretcher. Cookie forces her way onto the ambulance and they ride together. Anika is panicking about how crazy is it to have the woman that once drug ya ass across the floor now trying to calm you down. But it works and Anika is stabilized.

Harper is back at Lucious’ house and I am sad and ashamed to report that they have the hottest roughest sex scene I have seen on Empire. I feel dirty just typing that but I also feel turned on watching it so I guess it must be true. Lucky for me their trist is cutoff when Cookie cuts in again, this time blowing up Lucious’ phone. When Harper threatens to turn the headline of her story into “meet the manipulative bitch that has Lucious Lyon wrapped around her finger,” Lucious is quick to snatch her up and menacingly advise her to never say anything bad about Cookie again. Sometimes Lucious gets it right.

Hakeem is trying to make thing right with Laura. She is considering calling off the engagement because how can they be together if he is raising a kid with Anika? Yes, that was in my sarcastic voice. She says they have different ideas of what family means, takes off the ring and walks out. Hakeem finally checks his phone and sees Cookie calling him to the hospital.

At the hospital, he is confronted by Anika’s mom. Look, I’m not certain but Cookie may have met her match in Mrs. Calhoun. We have all been waiting for there to be an elder black woman that checks Cookie. We may have found her. She hasn’t done it yet but just wait.

Lucious shows up to see Anika but Hakeem stops him. He is upset not only about Lucious threatening Anika but also about him manipulating her father so that the company could go public. I had completely forgotten about that. Hakeem tries to be bold but Lucious is a master snake charmer and talks him down. Cookie returns to the waiting room and taunts Lucious about messing around with Harper. He claims that he didn’t like Harper because he needs a woman that’s smart but a bit hood. Who knew me and Lucious had the same taste in women. Cookie retorts that he had that woman and he should have kept her. Lawd Lucious got such a hold on that woman. But really, don’t we all have an ex with a hold on us like that? Cookie concocts an idea where they scoop Harper by getting a story about Lucious in the trade publications by morning. That is unless he is opposed to scooping Harper. Girl, please. Lucious throws EVERYONE under the bus. He is not opposed.

It’s the night of the fundraiser and Harper storms in to confront Lucious. He gives no fucks about her hurt feelings and sends her away. He thinks he has sent her off for good but she has a plan. She heads over to Andre who is getting ready to take the stage. He tries to shrug her off but she hands him an envelope. In that envelope are pictures from a shady retirement home. In that retirement home is Lucious’ mother, Lea Walker. Andre tells Rhonda he has to do something and walks out, leaving Cookie and Lucious to hold down the event alone. Harper heckles them by asking them where their sons are but Cookie is a master talker and she shifts the conversation back to the ASA’s by announcing that the entire Lyon family will be performing together. When Lucious asks if that is really happening she replies that it will happen even if she has to get a strap and tie them all down. All I really heard was Cookie and strap. Clearly I have other things on my mind besides Empire.

Towards the end of the night the board representatives visit with Cookie and Lucious and exactly what I said would happen last week happened. Well almost. They didn’t elevate Cookie to CEO by herself; they made Cookie and Lucious co-CEO’s. Lucious agrees to it but the way he hugs Cookie and claims he got her back. I just don’t trust it. He had her sent to prison before remember?

Worst dad in TV history: Lucious or JR Ewing? You tell me, because I can’t decide.

Grey’s Anatomy

Thursdays on ABC at 8:00 p.m.

Written by Aja


In this episode of Lesbian Divorce Court, Callie and Arizona are trying to rally troops in order to the face a judge about which one of them is…wait, what exactly are they going to argue before this judge? Physical custody? Legal custody? Joint legal/shared physical custody with a court-ordered visitation schedule and alternating holidays, the whole nine yards? Is there not an existing agreement in place? How is mediation not the first recommendation here? I SIDE-EYE THIS WHOLE THING SO HARD. Halfway through the episode and neither of them has anyone in their court yet.

It gets better, because of course Penny is on Arizona’s service. Penny is always on the service of the surgeon with whom it is the most inappropriate and awkward at any given time. There’s nothing more Arizona would love than to swat her away, but Arizona actually needs to do her job because something might be wrong with Kepnar’s baby. Maybe Penny is like a human vulture, in any case she sure seems to be all up in Arizona’s shadow, so much so that there is a grand showdown/confrontation between the two in the lunchroom. It is not cute. Arizona ends up crying in her car, and Webber’s very distraught/concerned about it all, but nobody really seems to know what to do.

At some point, Callie secures Grey and Hunt for Lesbian Divorce Court, but when she excitedly tells Penny all about it, things get weird. Penny decides to put on a brave face and lies by omission when Callie is all, “ZOMG, you were on Arizona’s service? Was it, like, the worst ever?!” which is weird and kind of inappropriate given the very serious and somber and adult and real court shit happening between them all.

The episode ends with more court teasers, which is funny because almost literally nothing happened worth mentioning in this one, so I give up. What a dud!

Of note: Edwards looks very fetching but acts like kind of a moron when her new man needs another surgery. April and Jackson’s baby is gonna be just fine. Bailey decided to give Ben a break. Amelia and Hunt decide to continue their crazy love affair. Karev is Switzerland where Lesbian Divorce Court is concerned. Meredith was maybe wearing another low-key tomboy femme outfit.

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Heather Hogan

Heather Hogan is an Autostraddle senior editor who lives in New York City with her wife, Stacy, and their cackle of rescued pets. She's a member of the Television Critics Association, GALECA: The Society of LGBTQ Entertainment Critics, and a Rotten Tomatoes Tomatometer critic. You can also find her on Twitter and Instagram.

Heather has written 1718 articles for us.


  1. Karev’s position as Switzerland is the only one that makes sense to me. This situation should not be a weird Seattle Grace Mercy Death popularity contest.

    I just can’t with Amelia and Hunt. No. Ugh.

      • I don’t give a damn about Amelia and Hunt. But Amelia could do much better

    • I was so mad at Callie for even thinking about approaching him! Mere, Hunt, fine, they are obviously closer to her, but Alex belongs to BOTH of them. He’s the only smart person in this situation.

      I’m actually impressed with how mature Penny has been about this in the last two episodes. She’s handling this MUCH better than either Callie or Arizona.

      • I’m hoping Penny is going to reach her breaking point with all of this very soon and runs away.

        Also, I was surprised by how quickly Meredith said yes (Hunt being awful does not surprise me at all). Like, yeah, she’s closer to Callie, but Arizona is still a person and if it comes down to testifying, how do you testify in favor of one perfectly good parent and against another? That should cause you some pause, not be an automatic thing you agree to with no thought. And then you try to get your friend to put the brakes on the whole thing b/c that is the only reasonable thing to do.

        • Mer’s reaction made sense to me, not that I agree with it- I personally wish they had all taken the Alex approach of staying out of it- but I think the immediate “yes” reaction makes sense for her character and what we know about her.

          For Meredith, her chosen family is her everything. She lives and dies by it as her code. It often is something I admire about her, but it is also something that has led her to make haste decisions before.

          Recent example, think of when she asked Hunt “do WE hate him” re: Riggs at the start of the season. She didn’t ask for a reason why, she didn’t ask for Riggs side of the story. Hunt hated him and that was enough for her.

          Another example: in the earlier seasons this haste to loyalty put her on the opposite side with Callie more than once. She chose to remain catty and bitchy with Izzie against Callie in a futile attempt to “protect” George in seasons 2&3. (Those are actually my least favorite Meredith moments in the whole series, as it has this icky coded racial dynamic of the “pretty” white girls ganging up and “mean girling” the woman of color whose not thin or blond, because they don’t think she’s good enough for their white male friend? It’s a little gross.)

          And there’s the whole “if she murdered someone, I would help her drag the body across the floor, no questions asked” pledge that she has with Cristina.

          Like I said, I think that vast majority of the time, Meredith’s blind loyalty to “her people” is a positive. Especially given what we know about her and how she grew up. But this falls in that sliver where her blind loyalty can be a real issue. Still, it feels in character to me as a choice she would make.

  2. What no mention of the 100? Last night’s episode actually felt like a normally paced exciting episode. Not the kill the lesbian or compress two seasons into four episode pile of crap they had going.

    • Really? I actually think this was probably the worse episode since Lexa died. They’re trying to redeem PIKE!? Really!? And Bellamy almost implied that it was Octavia’s fault for not listening to him that got Lincoln killed. Just, no. And the Kane/Abby/ALIE almost-rape situation made me want to puke.

      But the biggest problem was Kane’s literal crucification. All the POC get to die in the dirt (Wells, Anya, Lincoln, Sinclair) but the white guy gets to be a literal Jesus figure? Please.

    • Great question. Because their are still queer women on the show. Although Freda wasn’t a major part of this week’s storyline her story is still a major arc in this season. There are also still Tiana and Freda’s homegirl played by AZ Marie.

  3. does anyone else hate Edwards as much as I do? she’s the type of person that always has to prove they’re smarter than you, she gets on my nerves soooo much and her reason for dumping that guy was soooo stupid “i don’t want to care about anyone ever because they might get hurt and i can’t do surgery on them”what? everyone’s like oh ok makes sense but?!? it doesn’t?!? what would make more sense is if she dumped him because they’d barely get to see each other or something..then she plays dumb about why she has to be off the case?!? like this hasn’t been a rule ever just magically made up?!? idk it seemed childish but also she gets on my nrves

    also I vote for Penny to be called Door Mat(doormat?) because I feel like she’s just there to be yelled at about things that aren’t 100% her fault? but also i’m like ok when are we writing in the part where she yells back like she’s the person that people yell at because they know she won’t do anything? also Arizona being like “i know you’re just gonna report it back to Callie” gave me the most middle school flashbacks and honestly i want this plot line to stop

    another thing i would like to stop: people liking Owen, Amelia wanting to be with Owen, Owen talking about the same stupid ass helicopter story that for some reason we have suffered through several times like i can in detail recount a story that’s not only something that didn’t happen to me but also fictional like i can’t even think about it without rolling my eyes send help

    also can we talk about the catch where i’m clutching my pearls over whether or not the lesbian plot line is gonna be developed and the con lady’s brother says “Christopher” is “so straight”and the con lady is basically like “omg i know how unfortunate” and i’m like *1,000 clapping emoji, 23 sunglasses emoji, 7 rainbow emoji and sobbing emoji*

    i’m also like ok where is Shondy going with this stuff because Scandal makes sense, Grey’s has turned into like…adult Degrassi and I spend most of my time watching the catch trying to figure out if it’s a parody or not(y’all it’s so corny i’m just there for the gay)

    re Empire: at this point i’m only watching because i like Jussie and Taraji, I like Andre’s character, I’m waiting for Freda’s character development, and I didn’t know it but I’m also there to cackle at Hakeem because he’s a douche like 90% of the time, i’m waiting for Rhonda to remember she got pushed tf down the stairs…i don’t think i really enjoy it because I was on Miitomo most of the time but you know

  4. // Grey’s Anatomy //

    I’m officially declaring myself on #TeamPenny…not because I want Callie to choose her, necessarily, but because she seems to inspire such irrational conversation. It’s like listening to some people–cough, Susan Sarandon, cough–talk about Hillary Clinton but, you know, with much lower stakes.

    From the moment she was introduced on this show, Penny’s been nothing more than a rorschach test for whatever character plays opposite her. She’s how Meredith and Amelia exorcise the demons left from Derek’s death. She’s how Callie rebuilds after being crushed by infidelity during her marriage for the second time. And, ultimately, I think, she’s the vehicle for Arizona to do the self-reflection necessary to win her family back. Now, personally, I think that’s crappy storytelling–there’s got to be a better way for characters to grow than by yelling at a ginger–but that’s where we are…

    And yet…everyone still wants to blame Penny for everything.

    I’d actually hoped this episode would make more folks realize that Penny’s not the villain in this story. After all, when given the opportunity to report on Arizona’s abusive behavior to Callie–behavior that mortified even Arizona in hindsight–Penny declines. But, nope…

    Sigh. #TeamPenny

    // The Catch //

    On paper, this episode should’ve been catnip for me:

    – Samira Wiley as one of the first female Army Rangers;
    – More intimacy between Margot and Felicity;
    – Rose Rollins still lookin’ fine as hell.

    But, instead, by the end of the episode, I felt like I was done with this show. Why even showcase a relationship between Margot and Felicity on-screen if you’re just going to kill one of them an episode later? And why can’t Rose Rollins be paired with someone she actually has chemistry with?

    // General Hospital //

    Kristina’s exploration of her sexuality took a bit of a turn this week, as we met her new potential love interest, Aaron. It’s an awkward scene, as she runs into him while visiting her brother, Morgan, in the “loony bin,” and doesn’t recognize that Aaron’s flirting until her brother points it out.

    I know, I know…it sounds like every terrible trope we’ve seen/heard about college aged exploration…but after being stingy with Parker/Kristina spoilers for months, the folks at GH are forcefully asserting that Kristina’s feelings for Parker won’t go away. We’ll see Parker again…and we might even meet her fabled wife.

    You can watch this week’s scenes here or follow the storyline from the beginning, starting here.

  5. So the character that described herself as a “Chinese lesbian” survived Scott and Bailey, and from a narrative standpoint appears to be set up to stay, hope we see further character development for her. Overall not wowed by this 3 ep miniseason, but some stand out moments and performances, and nice to see a female driven cop show without queer baiting. *coff Rizzles*

  6. “Edwards looks very fetching but acts like kind of a moron when her new man needs another surgery”

    a *moron*?! wtf heather?

    btw callie and arizona aren’t a lesbian couple.
    only one person in this relationship is a lesbian – an i get that she has more *queer-cred* according to autostraddle, but i thought i’d bring it up again. and again. and again. until it klicks.

    • Um we know Callie is bi and have squealed with the staff when she actually says the word bisexual in reference to herself in an episode.

      I know not what this “queer cred according to Autostraddle” is to you because they don’t play that game. They may question WTF writers are doing with a character but there’s no “dated 3 men dated only 2 brrringring not queer enough” thang going on.

      • hi lex,

        i know that callie is acknowledged as a bisexual in general. calling her relationship with arizona a lesbian relationship is still erasing her identity.
        imagine the comments if heather had called it a ‘bisexual relationship’.
        she could gone for same sex/ queer/ w|w relationship ore something else – lesbian relationship doesn’t fit in this case.

        and no. the whole ‘queer cred’ thing isn’t on me.
        the constant dismissal of bi characters who even dare think about dating a guy (i’m talking about reactions to tv shows) because being in a w|m relationship would make the whole thing unbearable to witness/ her storyline is instantly dismissed, is on autostraddle and how they attend to the (w) bi+ community.
        they are constantly policed considering their partners and basically booed if their relationship doesn’t provide easy consumption for lesbians.
        (just think about faking it – but that is just the tip of the iceberg)

        see, i like autostraddle a lot. but i see a lot of issues with them handling bi+ girls in the community.
        i think feedback on that is important.
        don’t you?

        • the reason that all wlw, not just lesbians, get annoyed when TV shows focus on bi/queer women’s rlships with men is because it’s fucking BORING, because literally ALL SHOWS EVER, centre woman/man relationships. if wlw got the space on tv to be in healthy, realised, complex rlships with other wlw, then it wouldn’t be an issue when bi/queer women are shown in their man/woman rlships, because it would be a part of wider represenation of the wlw experience. but that’s not the world we live in. so i think that wlw’s frustrations at man/woman rlships involving queer women are very understandable.

          • hi kesiena,

            i get where you are coming from, however i don’t agree with the notion, that queer w|m relationships are *fucking bowring*.
            to me it seems the problem is more how shos handle queer w|m relationships, as it is instantly portrayed as straight – which it isn’t.
            there is lots of potential to focus on how identity is handeled and experienced for a queer person in a w|m relationship and still have the queer person be involved in the community etc etc
            and that is very interesting and important content for a lot of bi+ people.

            calling these relationships bowring and therefor a focus on relationships like these unworthy is pretty much exactly what i meant by saying
            ‘they are constantly policed considering their partners and basically booed if their relationship doesn’t provide easy consumption for lesbians’

        • Do you really not understand why people get pissed about Faking It?

          Look: I love Faking It (or as I like to call it The Lauren Show Featuring Rita Volk). But it was marketed as a show about a girl figuring out her sexuality and kissing girls a lot. We all wanted to see her end up with Karma because let’s face it they’re adorable.

          It turned into let’s see how many women we can get orbiting Liam’s penis at one time!

          It turned into every other show: a love triangle with a boring white dude we’re supposed to be interested in for some reason. This season the boring white dude changed! Amy is now orbiting a different boring white dude. I like him a bit more. Still not what the show was marketed as. I worry the cute girl in the catwoman outfit last week was just there so they could feature Amy kissing a girl in the promos.

          Do you understand? It isn’t bisexuality! I love good depictions of that. But it’s always: girls sometimes, because it’s hot! Guys by default because that’s how it’s Meant To Be.

          • hey alex,

            i do have my problems with the show and i get the general frustration about how they handle a lot of their characters and how certain storylines developed.

            i was super excited about it at first and now i have sort of developed a lovehate relationship with the show.. more hate than love BUT i’m gonna give it a little time before i drop out.

            so no, i’m not confused about anger towards a lot of the show. i am however getting incresingly confused/frustrated with the anger/disgust directed towards amy and the notion that she might still be interested in guys, too.
            i feel this show has been on for a while and this isn’t news anymore, but the hate continues.
            there was even talk about kicking faking it off the review list if amy starts dating felix – nevermind she’s still a queer character, but just not the *interesting* kind of queer i guess?
            there are a lot of bi+ girls who can relate to her situation and find themselves in her and we get how this is an important thing to have when we are talking about lesbian characters.
            so why is there still so much anger and hate when there is space for bi+ girls. they need representation too, is all that i’m trying to say

          • Why are you focusing on the race of the boring dudes when you talk about cheering on a ship comprised of two white girls? Not to say the gender combination is irrelevant, obviously, and not to say that shipping two white girls is bad. I just fail to see how whiteness is relevant when the alternative is also a white people ship.

          • Bananarama:

            I think you’re missing the fact that Amy isn’t real. She isn’t a real person! So her “queerness” only really exists in the sense that the writers treat her as a queer person. If she’s only dating guys… well, that isn’t very queer, is it?

            The world is full of plenty of representation of bi girls having brief relationships with women but ending up with guys. It’s pretty much the majority of bi representation. You might enjoy The 100.


            Because white girl + white guy is just about every show and boring as hell.

          • She isn’t a real person! So her “queerness” only really exists in the sense that the writers treat her as a queer person. If she’s only dating guys… well, that isn’t very queer, is it?

            Amy isn’t real, but plenty of bi people do have streaks where only man/woman things are happening in their love lives. There is legitimate criticism to be made about what sorts of attractions and relationships the writers value, and whether they’re going out of their way to create meaningful man/woman situations at the expense of meaningful woman/woman situations. But, a woman who experiences attraction towards women is queer, no matter what she is doing relationship-wise. Just as lesbians don’t stop being lesbians if they’re celibate or in a dry spell, bi women don’t stop being bi if they’re dating a man.

            Amy seems to be written as interested in women still, just… meaningful situations with women aren’t coming up. That’s absolutely still queer. The issue is that the writers aren’t giving her meaningful woman/woman situations, that the people in charge said she was a lesbian while promoting the show, and that no woman on the show is allowed to not date men without being a huge biphobic asshole who has a problem with other women doing it. It is possible to criticize that without calling bi people straight.

        • Getting a degree in graphic design so yes I understand the importance of feedback and how to critique
          Thoughtful feedback is difficult, also tone and intent isn’t as easy to discern over the internet.
          Plus there’s the callout culture which is buoyed by all the stuff we’ve kept inside that we realise don’t have to stay there which comes out or off as all raw and angry. Then the complicated at times shitty concept of trying to pose your issue with something the “right way”.
          Trying to express what one finds wrong or offensive in a rational logic driven way than impassioned emotional appeal is not easy and not completely sane a thing to do.

          Sometimes yes I vaguely feel like a piece of meat being fought over when a bisexual character who started out with a man partner gets with a woman and WLW(lesbians, queermos) get gleeful about it. Barbara Gordon in the end of season 1 of Gotham for example.

          But also I realise that predominately when women in fiction, especially visual fiction, are romantically paired off with men and romantic relationships between women are under or poorly represented. So when there’s chance to see themselves people get excited and invested. Can you understand that bit?
          Additionally when women get to be characters at all in a lot of thing it’s because they are the male lead’s love interest and nothing more.
          Lastly it has been the precedent for a female bisexual character to only have like one homoromantic or homosexual encounter before the writers pair her up with male characters for the rest of the her existence on the show and just “forget” or never mention the “dalliance” or if we got representationally lucky relationship ever again.
          And if it ever gets brought up again it’s treated like a phase or her salacious past. Or worse the beginning of a descent into depravity like Barbra in season 3.

          Faking It has been baiting a girl and girl relationship and messing with that hope of being represented.
          The criticism AS staff has is with something writers and producers of shows are doing. Commenters are bummed or pissed at being baited. It’s not a matter of “queer cred”.
          And yeah there is a real life in truth in bi AFAB people ending up with men, there are just more of them numerically than lesbians or other WLW, but bait a specific audience that there will be a relationship like theirs they’ll get to see and relate to and to continually serve up the opposite there will be resentment. That is the writers and producers fault, not yours or mine.

          Sure I imagine somewhere in the world there is def someone out there who has shit stain ideas and polices us both in fictional representation and real life on who we date and where we actually belong.

          Oh wow wall of text, hope it’s coherent

          TL;DR Tv shows have a long history of bait, switch or even erase when it comes to girl and girl relationships and the writers/producers of Faking It are baiting and it’s tapping into a resentment of said precedent.

          • ‘Oh wow wall of text, hope it’s coherent’

            yes, and thank you.

            i am starting to get the feeling, that me sideeying faking it could have used a little more explenation from my part..

            to get this clear: i don’t think that the show is handling any of their storylines particularly well and (to keep it short) i have a lot of issues with the whole thing.

            i see a lot of very important, vaild criticism against a lot of the shows archs.

            and i get a lot of the frustration, but i think the way the criticism concerning amy is being handled isn’t okay. it has ventured into basically bashing bi+ women too many times.
            and doing so under the premise of ‘hurt feelings’ seems off when simultaniously trampling on another groups feelings.

            i also don’t get why bi+ people have to take the heat for tv shows not portraying bi+ women right?
            yes, as soon as a bi+ woman steps into a relationship with a man, her identity is pretty much erased and all queernes is gone but isn’t that something *bi+* women should feel mad about?! this isn’t taking away from a potential ”lesbian” storyline – this is taking away from bi+ representation and identity!
            but no one is ever concerned about that.
            it leaves the feeling, that we are only welcome if we provide for the lesbian community.

            i know text like this can come across as trying to fight.
            i am not.
            writing without emojis is getting hard..

        • I think you have a point. A lot of bi people have been complaining about “lesbian” being used to describe any two-woman relationship, and even though a lot of lesbians and some bi people are okay with it, enough bi people aren’t okay with it that it feels like continuing to do it is ignoring bi people’s discomfort. Like, I’m bi and I don’t particularly care what two-woman relationships are called, but it’s starting to get to me that bi women say this literally all the time and nobody gives a shit.

          But the issue a lot of people have with Faking It isn’t that sometimes bi women date boys, it’s that the very premise of the show revolves around woman/woman relationships, but there are rarely ever any woman/woman relationships taking place, and it doesn’t seem to be allowed for women not to be interested in dating men without being horrible people who judge women who do date men. If you had multiple wlw characters, some who dated men and some who didn’t, and there was always something woman/woman going on, then it would be different. If your one major bi woman character dating a dude didn’t mean “welp, time for no more woman/woman content taking place until this is over,” then I think people would be at least a little kinder towards plotlines where bi women date dudes. There’s more than one motivation in play, and I think at least the one involving wanting to see woman/woman content is reasonable.

          They can do a little better on making that clear, though.

          • hi alice

            ‘it’s starting to get to me that bi women say this literally all the time and nobody gives a shit’

            yeah, and it’s heartbreaking.. especially when you know a lot of people struggling with this, or follow a lot of discussion about it..

            about faking it: i just should have said more about my feelings towards that show, because my criticism is focused onhow they are treating amy in their criticism and how i think there are often lines crossed. specifically because she might still be interested in guys. they didn’t make her ‘straight again’. she is still a queer girl. but suddenly unworthy of our time and space.
            this is my main issue.. the hate and disgust spit at her because of her identity.

          • I can’t reply to you because of how the comments work, so I’m just replying to me again to continue the discussion, even though it’s meant as a reply to you. I hope that’s alright!

            Yeah, it’s not okay to talk about “making her straight again” and people shouldn’t do it. It should be possible to criticize the lack of woman/woman content without treating bi people in man/woman relationships like they’re indistinguishable from straight people.

      • the way faking it is reviewed is pretty awful. the way bisexuality/pansexuality is discussed is disgusting.
        .. handled very poorly by heather, who is enabling cetrain biphobic tendencies for the readership.

        apart from that, sure-the show pretty much blows and should be under fire for that!

    • I’m bi. When I’m in relationships with women, I think of myself as being part of a lesbian couple. I don’t feel erased – I feel like it accurately describes the relationship I’m in, even if it doesn’t express my individual identity.

      • hi ashurredly,

        it is great for you, that these labels fit for you and that you don’t feel like you are struggling with them. i sincerely mean that.

        i don’t want to take these labels from you, they are still yours to feel comfortable with.

        i am however pointing out, that bisexual erasure in queer spaces is a thing (that autostraddle has acknowledged on many occasions).
        and language is one of the most important tools to navigate and further cultural awareness but also to erase, to shut down and to police.

        all of this isn’t news and criticism doesn’t have to be red as a call for war – it is rather a hand reaching out to get together. on eyesight.

      • the way bi+ women are portrayed on screen is the wrongdoing of the writers and should be the focus of criticism. not sutting up bi voices and stories

    • So I’m bisexual and… it’s not at all surprising that the mostly-lesbian website is going to root for characters being with women rather than men. Because there are precious few wlw relationships on TV in general and I’m sick and tired of the “bi character only exists to kiss girls sometimes and then end up with men by default” trope.

      Seriously–let’s let women who prefer women be in the focus on this damn website. Let’s not get so into identity policing that we try to shut up someone rooting for something other than femme lady + generic hetero dude.

      I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to be a lesbian and be yelled at for not wanting to talk about men all the time.

      • The only one here who’s identity-policing is the person saying that being concerned about inclusiveness toward bi people means you don’t prefer women and you don’t deserve to be prioritized.

        You know what’s also frustrating? Being treated like a traitor or like you’re basically heterosexual if you ever want to talk about something that isn’t what lesbians experience.

        • I bet that’s frustrating. You know the only places where there’s even a little chance of it happening? Lesbian spaces. Every other place on the internet expects and wants you to talk about dating guys when you’re bi. If anything you’re ridiculed for not wanting to talk about how awesome penises are–you must be a lesbian if you aren’t!

          You know what happens very rarely to me? Being treated like a traitor for having dated guys, or even when I was actually with one, in lesbian spaces. Everyone seems pretty cool with me! What they don’t want is constant talk about guys in the one space where they don’t have to deal with it. And you know what? I’m cool with that. I don’t have to talk about basketball on the football forum either. Somehow I get along.

          • I’m not sure what “ahm” means, so forgive me if I’m not understanding something in your post.

            A bi woman dating guys is still queer, I’m not disputing that. But it’s not the theme of this website. Does that make sense?

            If I’m a bi woman dating a guy, I’m going to see a lot of relationships that look like mine on television. Every women’s website is going to cater to me in that they tend to be about women dealing with men.

          • That’s how I felt when I was in a longterm relationship with a guy, anyway.

            If anything, the world at large was MORE comfortable with me as a bisexual woman dating a dude. My sexuality was just an interesting detail rather than a core part of my being. And that’s how these shows are treating bi characters. Do you understand why that’s aggravating?

      • hi there again alex,

        as far as i got it, autostraddle wants to provide an inclusive environment for queer women.
        someone from the staff may correct me if i got this wrong though?

        if this is correct though, then bi+ women are in the mix. and being inclusive means to acknowlede that their identity and lived experience in said identity *differs* from that of the lesbian community.
        sure, there are lots of overlapping themes and issues, but only focusing on lesbian experience and the rest of the people must find their meaning in the overlap..? that doesn’t sound inclusive to me.

        now there are a lot of bi+ women in w|w relationships and might feel a lot more welcome and represented here. but this is just the overlap again.
        i autostraddle doesn’t want to put in the work to be *inclusive* (and yes, it is work, and a process, i know), then why claim to be?

        this isn’t me ‘yelling at lesbians for not wanting to talk about men all the time’.


        • But what you appear to want is a form of *inclusivity* that means catering to women dating men in every single post. I don’t expect that on a wlw website… because it’s about wlw. Just like I wouldn’t expect a straight women’s website to mention wlw in every post. I want respect–of course I do–but I do not feel disrespected here.

          • ‘[…] you appear to want is a form of *inclusivity* that means catering to women dating men in every single post’

            how did you even get to this conclusion?

            i have repeatedly stated that i am talking about how bi+ women are treated when discussing their on screen representation and the following discussions about their possible involvement with guys, that seems to bring out a lot of general hate and disgust towards bi+ women (off screen).

            again: what?

          • oh. i got lost in the comments structure and thought you replied to me.. sorry.

            but still..

          • I guess I just haven’t seen this hate and disgust? What I do see is… well, shippers arguing with other shippers over ships. That isn’t the same as anti-bi disgust. Saying “I’m sick and tired of this trope” isn’t condemning real women’s decisions.

            Again: these aren’t real people! They’re fictional characters. They do not have needs wants or desires outside what their writers give them. If Amy and Liam were real people I’d be treating this a lot differently.

          • I really don’t expect a wlw website to be thrilled about yet another guy-girl ship because… damn, look at the state of media right now. So I get the annoyance.

          • Bi women are wlw. Not every post is going to be about dating men, or should be about dating men, but they have editors here and it’s basic fucking decency to check to make sure the posts aren’t being dismissive of bi women who are dating/have dated/would date men. Should there be a general focus on dating women? Yes, but that doesn’t have to come with an all or nothing approach.

    • i don’t know why but i seem to not be able to hit like on your and alices posts?
      fully agree with you and thank you for speaking up *

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