Folks, it has finally happened. The members of our OG L Word cast have finally awoken from their decade-long collective dream and remembered that they have a past! Shane shares her regret about Carmen with Angie, and still definitely wants to get with Alice’s mom. Alice, already busy crying over her break-up with Nat, decides to make us all cry by talking about Dana Fairbanks. Our friend Bette is too busy looking at Pippa Pascal in awe to remember that she has definitely done more stuff worth remembering than just “cheated on Tina seventeen years ago.” (Justice for Jodi.)
Meanwhile, our Gen Q crew is off doing things that they will conveniently forget to mention when they are in the next reboot 10 years from now. Sophie and Finley are starting to spend more time together, and of course Dani and Micah have feelings and thoughts about that (though Micah’s thoughts and feelings seem to be growing in Maribel’s direction, tbh). Listen to us unpack it all on To L and Back, and we’ll even tell you our first AIM screennames as a treat!
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- Riese’s recap of Lake House
- The Lake House starring Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock is not available to stream anywhere, but you sure can watch The L Word 503: “Lady of the Lake” on Hulu and listen to the To L and Back episode of 503
- As of February 2021, Rose Rollins was set to star in Long Slow Exhale, a drama set in the world of college basketball
- The To L and Back episode about the Interrogation Tapes
- I’m sure someone at Autostraddle has a favorite article about Rosie’s talk show but here’s an interesting one I just found!
- Shane and Tess could have chosen a movie for movie night from this list!
- But since they chose Casablanca, here’s Drew’s essay she referenced!
- The book that Riese thinks sparked Sophie’s documentary idea
- To L and Back episodes for the first appearances of Cobie Smulders, Jamie, and Lisa, respectively, in case you want a refresher
- And Autostraddle’s Lisa roundtable, for good measure
Drew: Hi I’m Drew.
Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.
Riese: And I’m Riese.
Drew: And this is…
Riese, Drew, and Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q!
Drew: Edition! Oh wow, Riese didn’t say it that time.
Riese: I know. I didn’t say it because I thought I was going to be alone.
Drew: No, we have your back. We always… For us as lesbians, it’s always important that we take care of each other.
Riese: Also that is fully part of my everyday lexicon now.
Drew: Saying “edition,” or “for us as lesbians”?
Riese: “For us as lesbians,” yeah.
Analyssa: I think it’s so fun to take a random phrase that means absolutely nothing and just incorporate it into your vocabulary. My friend group says, “Mr. Police Man, we gave you all the clues” all the time. What an absurd timeline for a movie, so we say it any time someone should have understood what we were talking about. “For us as lesbians,” much more useful in my day-to-day life as lesbians.
Riese: For us as lesbians.
Drew: This episode 204 is called “Lake House” like the film with Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves.
Riese: How many lakes were in this episode? I recall zero. Well, I’m sure they did a shot of Echo Park Lake.
Analyssa: I was gonna say, I’m sure Echo Park Lake did get featured, but the houses… Well, we’ll talk about this later. It’s in the woods.
Drew: How close to the lake do you have to be to be a lake house?
Riese: You got to be on the lake.
Analyssa: On the lake.
Riese: You got to be on the lake, yeah.
Drew: Okay. I don’t remember… I actually never saw The Lake House with Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock, so I don’t actually know if that lake house was on a lake. I would imagine it was. Please listeners, tell us about that film.
Riese: It for sure was on the lake.
Analyssa: I’ve heard that film is bad. I think the house is on the lake, but as a person of Midwestern experience, I can say that a lake house is on a lake.
Riese: It’s on the lake.
Analyssa: Even if your house is a few blocks away, you’d be near the… A lake house is different. I don’t need to get into the semantics of this.
Riese: I was just going to say that I haven’t seen the movie Lake House, but I did see the episode of the original series where they went to the lake house with Jodi’s friends and threw Bette into the lake.
Analyssa: Right, remember? They could just walk out onto the lake.
Drew: That episode… Bette, God. Speaking of Bette, God, ugh. Well, this episode, first of all, is directed by Sarah Pia Anderson, who has directed so much TV, including an episode of Gilmore Girls and also an episode of Gen Q last season, the third episode. It is written by Thomas Page McBee, who wrote on the Tales of the City reboot and wrote on the first season and is notably The L Word: Generation Q’s only trans writer.
Riese: I want to say before we start that I cried four times during this episode.
Drew: Oh, wow. I wonder if you’ll cry five times in the next episode and subsequently every number of the season. That would be really beautiful.
Riese: Yeah. There were a lot of emotional parts, a lot of opportunities. But as usual, I should say that when I say I cried, what I really mean is I teared up.
Analyssa: I did actually fully cry once, and I teared up one more time. I’m a pretty easy cry, but…
Riese: Me too.
Analyssa: I also… it happened.
Drew: I don’t cry generally because I’m a Capricorn, and also I have an eye condition I found out that makes me not cry—
Riese: Oh yeah, you mentioned that.
Drew: …which we’ve mentioned that, yeah, so I did feel a lot of emotions. I will get into this, but I liked this episode. For us as lesbians, should we get into this episode?
Riese: I believe we should. All in favor, say aye.
Analyssa: The bill becomes a law. Thank you.
Drew: Like all good episodes of television, it starts with the FBI arresting Dani’s dad, because on TV, rich people constantly are being bothered by the FBI.
Riese: They sure are.
Analyssa: This is just what happens when you get rich in TV. Your days are numbered.
Drew: My main takeaway from this opening was that Gigi rushes in meaning business. She’s like, “What is going on?” I’m just like, once again, much love to Gigi.
Analyssa: Gigi kind of loves a crisis, which makes it very funny that she’s a real estate agent. There are so many more things. Crises are just her passion. They’re not her career. She just wants to be there.
Riese: My hope from this opening scene was, “Oh my God, Dani’s going to be a mess because obviously, and Gigi’s going to manage the fuck out of this situation. They’re going to fall in love. That’s going to be this story of the series.” Believe it or not, it went in a different direction that I didn’t necessarily care for.
Drew: Well, let’s give them time. Much like real life friends, sometimes you have to let them have their mistakes and dalliances before getting to the endgame goals.
Riese: Right, that’s true.
Analyssa: Speaking of endgame goals.
Analyssa: Thank you. Mari and Micah are together again in the next scene.
Drew: They are. Chatting about horses. Really getting a lot of mileage out of the horse convo.
Riese: Remember the horses or monkeys thing? If you’re gay you wanted a monkey, and if you’re straight you wanted a horse?
Drew: Oh, yes.
Analyssa: Oh, yeah.
Riese: Speaking of being straight of being gay, Maribel has a date, and Micah asks if she wants to hang out, and she’s like, “No, I can’t because I have a date with someone who doesn’t deserve me or something, but I could set you up with my coworker Harry.”
Drew: As a double date. It was like, “Oh, we would go out as a double date.” It was like, oh. You could see it in Micah’s eyes. It’s not what he wanted. Then Micah gets a call from Dani’s dad, and it’s like, uh-oh. What’s happening? We know.
Riese: Then we go to Sophie’s house, where she’s got her little computer out and she’s looking at vintage lesbians. This is a pastime I can relate to. This is a great moment for our little Finley because she did a thing and has hopes and dreams.
Analyssa: She’s so fired up!
Riese: She played soccer!
Drew: Yeah, and she says that coaching kids’ sports is her ambition in life, and I think that’s lovely.
Riese: Right. Sophie’s so impressed that she asks Finley out for dinner.
Sophie: Do you want to go out for dinner tonight? I could use something to look forward to after a day of banging my head against the wall.
Finley: Yeah, for sure. You want to go to that sushi place on Hyperion? We can meet on the curb?
Sophie: Yeah, sure.
Finley: Or I could pick it up and I will take a Lyft this time so it doesn’t get warm like last time.
Sophie: No, let’s just meet there at seven.
Finley: Seven, okay, great.
Riese: I was so excited!
Drew: It’s very cute.
Drew: I’m sorry.
Riese: It’s fine. It’s fine.
Analyssa: I was also excited but immediately thought, “I’m sure this is going to go well for everyone involved. I’m sure this is going to go exactly how we want it to.” Then at Bette’s, Alice has stayed there and is talking about staying up late crying and watching videos that make her cry.
Drew: Okay, but specifically watching videos of soldiers reuniting with their families, but there’s no mention of Tasha.
Riese: This show loves the Army.
Drew: There’s no mention of Tasha! Her second most significant ex. I’m so confused… Look. I think what’s incredible is that I think a lot of the Gen Q writers maybe haven’t seen the original L Word or haven’t watched it since it was on the air, and honestly I love that for them.
Riese: Haven’t seen it 45 times.
Drew: If Thomas has not seen The L Word, the original series since it was on the air, not only am I okay with that, but I am so happy for him and encourage that, and if there’s continuity problems, I don’t care. I support him in this choice, but also let’s stop talking about the Army.
Riese: Yeah. Also, there’s only one good video of a soldier reuniting with their family, and it’s when Tasha arrives home from being whatever. She was deployed and then she got to come back because she was gay, and then she walks into Alice’s house and they take off all their clothes and have sex on the floor.
Analyssa: Maybe that’s what Alice was watching.
Riese: That’s a good video. These other videos, interesting. Interesting. Interesting choice.
Analyssa: You know how medical shows bring a doctor on staff to consult on what’s realistic and what’s not? I think that The L Word: Generation Q should bring on an L Word consultant and it should be one of you two.
Riese: Thank you. I will accept it.
Analyssa: Just like, “What’s realistic in the world of The L Word?”
Riese: Right. They have never mentioned Tasha ever. They didn’t mention Tasha in Gen Q or this.
Drew: Script supervisor Riese Bernard.
Riese: Yeah, I’ll just go through the script and write, “Tasha!” all through it. And what is Rose Rollins doing? She could be that… Oh, she’s doing that basketball series. Anyway, I’m sure she could have taken a minute and been in this. Alice has to kick her mom out of her house, and Shane is like, “I’ll talk to your mom.”
Analyssa: Shane offers to go do it with a little bit of sex maybe.
Alice: Now I have to go tell my mother to get out of my house, and she’s not going to take that well.
Shane: I can talk to Lenore for you if you’d like.
Bette: That’s very generous of you.
Alice: We’re very aware of that, thank you Shane.
Drew: It’s very interesting to remember that callback but not remember Tasha?
Riese: Well, it was in the preview for Season 1 a lot, the Lenore joke from Season 1 of Gen Q, you know?
Drew: That’s true. Meanwhile at The Alice Show, Micah has shown up because Dani is MIA, and because this is a television program, Micah has decided to go to her ex and talk to her about that.
Analyssa: At her place of work!
Drew: Yeah, definitely stretching believability there, but you know what? I’m on board.
Riese: I am not. The moment that this happened — well, first of all, I was like, “Good, hold your ground, Sophie. Dani said she didn’t want to see you. Respect those boundaries.” But then Micah kept pressing, and I was like, “Sophie’s not having sushi with Finley tonight.” In that exact moment, I was like, “Nope. It’s not happening.”
Riese: In that moment, I felt a little bird die in my soul.
Drew: Think about it this way: In real life, if you have plans to get sushi with someone who you are excited to get sushi with, you can go. You can get sushi. It can be lovely, and then you can go on another date in a few days or in a few weeks or whatever you want, and you can just continue to have happiness and joy. But this is a soap opera, so if they were to have had a good dinner tonight, then the next episode would be a guaranteed disaster. The longer you have to wait for the payoff, the more likely you are to get a good run of Sophie and Finley. It’s just something to keep in mind.
Analyssa: Drew is working on a thesis about the calculus of soap operas or something.
Drew: Yeah, I’m always working on some thesis.
Analyssa: Mathematical formula.
Riese: But you’re right, it’s fine. I can wait. It will happen eventually.
Drew: But I will say it is… Okay, who is Micah? I’m like, “Who are you that you are going to this ex instead of being able to handle the situation yourself?”
Riese: Also who he told to not talk to Dani anymore. Not really explicitly, but he sort of kept being like, “You hurt her.” He’s on Team Dani.
Drew: Yeah. Do you think we maybe missed the rest of the scene when he actually showed up as an excuse to talk about Sophie’s sister, and he’s like, “Anyway, that was the important thing I had to talk to you about, but you think…?”
Analyssa: “More importantly, has Maribel said something about me? I told you something about Dani. Maybe she said something about me?” Yes, I think that is exactly it. Although again, a text message, a call, a drive from West Hollywood to whatever studio The Alice Show was shot on is certainly not the most efficient way to get this done.
Drew: This happens in media all the time, and maybe it happens in real life, and my exes just know me well enough not to do this, but showing up to people’s place of work to have emotional conversations or any sort of personal life thing is not good. I do not recommend doing it. Don’t do it, and definitely don’t do it to me specifically.
Analyssa: One time a girl I hooked up with who happened to work on the same studio lot as I did interoffice mailed me a Christmas card, and I considered moving away forever. I considered walking out, never returning to my job, and never returning to Los Angeles. I can only imagine…
Drew: If it was an in person visit.
Riese: When I didn’t answer my boyfriend’s phone calls, he would just call me at work, and then they would pass it off to me.
Drew: Oh boy.
Analyssa: Thank you for clarifying.
Riese: Yeah, at the time, also, he was an ex-boyfriend. I was like, “Either be my boyfriend or break up with Allie-boo. Break up with Allie-boo and be my boyfriend or don’t be my boyfriend. Don’t keep constant tabs on me and date Allie-boo.”
Drew: Who’s Allie-boo?
Riese: Well, that was her name on AOL. This was quite some time ago.
Analyssa: That was certainly a screen name. I didn’t have a cool screen name. Mine was HippieChick123.
Drew: Mine was SprtsFrk1224, with no vowels. Well, actually, no, “Freek” had two Es. It was S-P-R-T-S-F-R-E-E-K, 1224. 12/24 is my birthday, and that’s the only thing that still makes sense there.
Riese: Mine was RPopTart because raspberry was my favorite flavor of Pop-Tart in 1993.
Drew: You know who wasn’t alive in 1993? Angie and Kayla.
Drew: And that’s who’s in this next scene! Thank you. Angie says that as a kid she wanted to be Snoopy. Kayla says she wanted to be a dancer. It’s some nice sister bonding chatting, and then it starts to pivot into dad convo, and Kayla’s like, “We can talk about it,” and Angie’s like, “Can we? Because I don’t want you to think I’m using you, but also I would love to know something about my dad.”
Riese: She says she’s got something to tell her, and I was like…
Analyssa: My notes say “he’s gay or sick,” immediately.
Drew: The thing about The L Word is that the options are either gay, dying, or arrested.
Drew: Those are the only things that can happen to people, and we will reveal in a later scene which of the three.
Analyssa: I hilariously really thought… I was like, “He’s going to be gay.” Then I was like, “Why would that be…?”
Drew: That’s the default.
Analyssa: Why would this be such a serious conversation? It took me so long to get over it.
Riese: Maybe she was going to be like, “He lives in Italy in a palace.”
Analyssa: That would have been fun.
Drew: I would love to see some sort of Princess Diaries meets Gen Q moment.
Riese: Yes, absolutely. Get royalty.
Analyssa: What if one time in a TV show someone was like, “I have to tell you something about your relative,” and then—
Riese: “He’s the King of Scotland!”
Analyssa: And then ominous music played, and it was like, “They found out that they’re royalty.”
Riese: Exactly, that’s so nice.
Riese: And now you’re wealthy and in charge of balls.
Analyssa: Speaking of being wealthy. Hey-o! Tess and Shane are planning a bunch of events, and Tess it seems like is crushing. She’s just running the show. Shane can’t do anything without her, so of course then Tess gets a call that is going to take her away from the bar on this busy eve.
Drew: Yeah, she’s driving to Vegas and back in a day, which is very impressive. She’s doing that because her mom lives there, but Shane’s like, “I’m going to come with you. Let’s party!” Shane is crushing hard. Here’s the thing that I really like about Shane is that culturally she has this reputation for being so fuckboy Shane, but part of being a good fuckboy is being very emotional and giving the impression that the other person who can change you and having a real watery energy to you. I really like watching Shane be in love mode because it does feel genuine, and that’s the thing about the people I know who break the most hearts. They’re really not malicious. They really in the moment are like, “I found love, and it’s consuming me.” You’re like, “You think you maybe want to not tell the person until it lasts more than a week? Because this might lead to some heartbreak.” But so far, Shane is just like, “I don’t want to be away from you for the day. I want to come with you.” I’m like, “Who’d be watching the bar if you went with her?” But Shane doesn’t care.
Riese: Maybe she loves Vegas.
Drew: That’s also true.
Riese: She’s like, “Let’s go to the fucking pyramid. Let’s go to the castle. Let’s go to the circus. Let’s go to Paris. Let’s go to New York. We can do all that in one day in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.”
Drew: It is a special place.
Analyssa: Then drive back to the bar in time for the event tonight.
Riese: Totally. The one that they’ve also booked Finley for even though Finley also has other plans tonight, which they’re constantly doing. No one’s paying any attention to anybody’s schedule.
Analyssa: Nope, they have three people who work at the bar, first of all. Secondly, they fill out no schedules. They just assume everyone will be there, and then if someone has plans, they go, “Well, I guess that’s fine.” It’s anarchy. It doesn’t make any sense.
Drew: All the lesbians in LA at Dana’s like, “Can I get a fucking drink? Come on!” Which was my experience the one night that the Dana’s party happened because it was packed. That was fun. I miss that. I think it’s coming back.
Riese: Yeah, it was packed. I remember because my friend’s now-ex, we sent her to the bar to get drinks, and she came back with no drinks.
Drew: Yeah, I was standing there for a long time. Honestly though, here’s the thing. I actually love it when there’s a long line at a gay bar because it’s a great… Same with a bathroom line. Some of my best conversations happen when I’m waiting for something. It’s a great place. I also think that LA, having traveled the United States this summer, LA…
Riese: Having been to Ohio.
Drew: Having been to Ohio, I feel like people in LA sort of stay in their groups, and that’s fine, whatever, but I think something that I’ve found at other queer spaces in places that aren’t LA is people are more eager to chat. The one place where people are eager to chat is bathroom line and drink lines.
Riese: Yeah, the gay-ass bathroom line.
Drew: Yeah, gay-ass bathroom line, oh! Incredible.
Riese: I’ve had great conversations there.
Analyssa: Okay, so then—
Riese: Oh my God!
Analyssa: So then Alice goes back to her house.
Riese: It’s Lenore! They got her back!
Drew: They did get her back.
Riese: Lenore is back!
Analyssa: They did get her back.
Drew: Who’s that actress? I didn’t do that research.
Riese: Oh, her name is Anne Archer. Anne Archer plays Lenore Pieszecki.
Drew: Has she been acting since? What’s she been up to?
Riese: Yeah, she’s just in The Dropout, a TV miniseries that’s in post-production. She was in an order of Drew’s favorite show SVU. She’s in the TV show Privilege. Looks like she’s been working maybe one thing a year maybe, at most.
Drew: And now here she is! Here she is in a multilevel marketing scheme.
Riese: Yeah, of course. That makes perfect sense. Of course. Of course.
Drew: It’s funny because for the longest time whenever I would see MLM to mean “men loving men,” I would always think, “multilevel marketing scheme,” but now that I see in my notes, “Alice’s mom is in an MLM,” I’m like, “Good for you, Lenore! I’m glad you found yourself!”
Riese: And little do you know, it’s really just about oils.
Drew: Yeah. It always is. Well, that can be an important part of an MLM relationship as well.
Lenore: If you’re referring to my small business.
Alice: You mean your scam?
Lenore: It’s for multi-level marketing company.
Alice: Potayto, potahto.
Lenore: You will be pleased to know that you are looking at Swan’s Breaths Cosmetics’ platinum salesperson.
Alice: (Sigh) Fuck me.
Riese: And Alice is like, “You need to move out, because I broke up with Nat and I bought you an entire apartment in Brentwood with a room for all your crystals,” or whatever that she’s selling.
Riese: And her mom’s like “No, you need me, and I’m staying.” Alice… I mean the wealth, honestly.
Drew: I mean, but she’s like a fucking talk show host of course she has that kind of money.
Riese: Right. That’s true.
Drew: I mean, it seems like it’d be really nice to be able to deal with your problems that way.
Riese: Right? Like if you broke up with someone and then you’re like, “Okay, I bought a new apartment. Bye.” Instead of being like, “Well, I guess we’re going to cohabitate for three more months.”
Analyssa: “I guess we have to live together until the lease expires. And then I’m going to have to move into a smaller apartment that costs more, that’s farther away from where I want to be. Cool, cool, cool, cool.”
Riese: “Or I’m going to have to have my new girlfriend move in to where I live with my old girlfriend, because we can’t find any other apartments that are cheap because the rent has gone up so high since we got this one.”
Analyssa: It’d be nice to be really, really rich, I think.
Drew: Yeah. We need to get on that.
Riese: Yeah, I think about that every day.
Analyssa: One of us should host a talk show. I hear that’s a quick pass to fame and fortune.
Riese: You know, they offered Rosie — she was done with her show and they were like, “We’ll give you $50 million to do one more season.” And she was like, “No.” And they’re like, “You can’t turn that down.” They were offering her like $80 million. She was like, “I have more money than I could ever spend in my lifetime already. I don’t want to do the show. Stop.”
Drew: Good for Rosie.
Riese: And she didn’t and she stopped. Anyway, I don’t think that you’re offering that to Alose though. They almost canceled her last year.
Drew: They did.
Analyssa: I was going to say, The Alose Show does not have that level of cultural impact at this point, I think.
Drew: Speaking of rich people who have cultural impact, Shane is talking to Angie.
Riese: This is cute! Oh, this is my first cry. This was my first cry.
Analyssa: This is really cute.
Drew: So the reveal is that Marcus Allenwood is dying.
Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Drew: And so I don’t understand what’s with killing all so many people. And I also specifically think that it’s worth noting that it’s the show killing another Black person, after killing Kit offscreen in between the seasons.
Riese: And her dad.
Drew: Yeah. It just is like, okay.
Riese: Yeah, he could have just been gay.
Drew: He could’ve just been gay.
Riese: As predicted. He could have been involved in a multi-level marketing scheme. He could be doing workout videos. He could be…
Analyssa: Running an underground poker game for lesbians.
Riese: Running an underground poker game for lesbians.
Drew: Yeah. So, but Angie is just trying to decide if she should meet him before he dies. And Shane doesn’t know, which is honest and nice and sweet. And then she talks about her own dad. It’s a very emotional, emotional, emotional scene. The only thing that I had an issue with was that Shane was like, “Talk to Jordie.” And she was like, “Jordie is running for prom queen, so her life’s on a different page or something.” And I’m just like, why couldn’t it be, Jordie doesn’t like her parents, so she doesn’t understand or whatever, or something that just reveals a little bit more about Jordie, except that she’s a shitty — I mean, look, she’s a high schooler so she can be a shitty girlfriend, but I just like, everything we’ve seen so far, even like last episode, two episodes ago, when Jordie was like, “Oh my God, I want to go with you to like, meet your dad, meet your sister.” I just am like, why? I don’t know. That just felt like a weird throwaway line since we don’t get that much time with Jordie, just like economically speaking, could have revealed more about who she is as a person and their relationship, but you know what? It’s fine. Angie wants to see a therapist.
Riese: I thought it was nice, because we talk a lot about how they pretend like the original series is never brought up. And I think this is the first time that she’s ever brought up Carmen and says that meeting her father reinforced the worst parts of her and she made a really poor decision, and that she would have been better off had she never met him. Although then she never would have had the pleasure of raising little Shay and introducing him to milkshakes and skateboarding and breaking his arm.
Drew: That was such a powerful relationship. Really, that brief moment where Shane was just going to be a dad.
Riese: Shane was finally daddy. And now Shane doesn’t want kids anymore.
Analyssa: Just this dog that she found. When Lenore arrived, and I was like, oh, that’s fun, they brought her back. And then she was just like the first horseman of the ghost L Word past. Everyone’s like, “Okay, so remember how there’s an original series?” after Lenore, which I thought was very funny.
Analyssa: I loved it. Loved to see it, but it was just like the one-two of Lenore. And then Shane being like, “Oh yeah, and I left someone at the altar.” I was like, yeah.
Drew: I want to find about Tina’s parents at some point, which is wild that I’m asking for more Tina screen time. But it’s amazing what Carrie coming to the show will do to you. But I am like, are we ever going to find anything about that? Maybe not.
Riese: Well, we did in the interrogation tapes.
Drew: Those aren’t canon.
Riese: I know they’re not canon.
Drew: I refuse to acknowledge those as canon.
Riese: That’s what Carly and I realized. Obviously I bitched about Tina not having parents for six seasons of television. And then the interrogation tapes, she invented this bananas, totally banana’s family history.
Riese: It was wild.
Drew: Truly wild. So speaking of things that are wild, Sophie goes to Dani’s not-lake lake house, which I’m still like—
Analyssa: The secondary manor.
Drew: Yeah, I’m still just like, why is this Sophie’s problem? Why is this Sophie’s problem? Dani and Sophie immediately started fighting, which I did really like, because I don’t know. It feels very truthful to me of this thing where you’re like, okay, I’m going to go, it’s going be fine, we’re going to be mature, whatever. And then you immediately fall into bickering.
Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). She’s like, “You can’t even give me space, but I run away to the woods.”
Drew: Yeah. But Sophie comes in to pee.
Riese: Then I know where it’s doomed.
Drew: Yeah. But here’s the thing, is that Sophie did not drive all the way to that lake house, not to have sex with Dani. Like she maybe didn’t know that’s what she was doing. Maybe in her head, she was not doing that, maybe she was doing something noble. But I think in a year, when Sophie looks back on this moment, she’s going to go, “Yeah, I knew what I was doing.”
Riese: Is it a lake house though? I think it’s a castle.
Drew: No, it’s not-lake lake house.
Riese: It’s a mini castle.
Analyssa: It’s a manor in the woods.
Riese: Maybe they have a pond? Maybe they have a private lake.
Drew: I’d live there.
Drew: Okay. So…
Riese: Speaking of Sophie.
Drew: Yeah, someone who doesn’t know what’s happening in Sophie’s life right now is Finley, who’s buying flowers for Sophie with Micah, and Micah is a little bit like, uhhh…
Analyssa: She has a new blazer!
Drew: Micah’s concerned. And Micah should be concerned. We’re all concerned.
Riese: She’s volunteering. But here’s the thing, it happens in this episode, it happened in the last episode. And I will admit it happens in the next episode as well. People are constantly telling Sophie or Finley things like, oh, she asked for space and she asked for space, or like, she didn’t ask for space. Or she told you — People are constantly giving each of them different alleged requests from the other person. Like did Sophie ask Finley for space?
Drew: She did a few weeks ago, but they’ve moved past that.
Drew: She did ask for time.
Riese: Yeah. She asked for time before she could talk about her feelings.
Drew: But then, she also asked for sushi, so…
Riese: And she also asked Finley to stay in the house.
Drew: She did.
Riese: And also Sinley forever.
Drew: She also asked her to have sex with her, with her energy.
Riese: Yeah. She gave her… secretly in the head, mind melt.
Drew: There’s vibes. Not strong enough vibes that there don’t need to still be some conversations before it happens. But there’s definitely some vibes.
Drew: Speaking of vibes, Bette is on a journey to meet Pippa.
Riese: In Topanga.
Drew: Yes. Which they make seem like that is truly, if someone didn’t know LA, they would think that that was — that Bette had been driving for hours.
Riese: Wait, how far is that?
Drew: Topanga? It’s nothing.
Riese: Oh really?
Drew: Yeah, sure. I mean, it depends where you’re coming from, but it’s just like another way to go over the hill from the valley. The other thing about Topanga is that I think when you go to homes there, you’re like, this is beautiful. But driving there you’re like, oh my God, if I lived here, to go to the grocery store, it would be such a fucking pain in the ass. But Pippa wants to be secluded. So Topanga is a great choice for her to be living.
Riese: Her house is like, off the set of Once Upon A Time.
Drew: Yeah. It’s really something. What I’m wondering is this whole time that this happening, I’m like, has Bette called Gigi? Have they worked out any of their past problems? And the answer, I think, is no. But Pippa’s hot and Bette is obsessed and Bette is pushy. She’s just going to keep hanging around. Speaking of tops who don’t know how to take no for an answer, Dani calls Micah to let him know that she’s okay, she’s talking to Sophie about how she’s pretty sure her dad did something really bad, which is like, uh, duh. And Sophie’s like…
Sophie: I’m always going to be here for you, whether you want me or not.
Drew: And then what happens?
Riese: Bang, bang, bang.
Drew: What happens? Ex-sex.
Drew: The 11th best kind of sex.
Analyssa: Well you knew it was going to happen.
Riese: We did. Yeah. We knew it was going to happen.
Analyssa: You put it at 11th?
Drew: You put it higher?
Analyssa: I would put it higher. I’m sick in the head though.
Riese: Ex-sex is pretty good. Because it’s dramatic.
Drew: I never had sex with my last ex and I did have sex with my first serious ex, after the fact. And there was some good drama there, but it’s still, it’s nah.
Analyssa: Look, there’s the drama. It feels as sort of exciting as a new experience because you’ve ended one phase, and now it’s like, ooh. It’s not the same as when you were together or seeing each other or whatever. But it has all the comfort and knowledge of knowing someone already.
Drew: Right. That makes sense.
Analyssa: So you’re not fumbling through it. Anyway, I don’t know that I’d put it much higher than 11, but 11 seems low to me.
Drew: You seem like eighth or maybe seventh.
Analyssa: Yeah, I think seventh is probably around.
Drew: Yeah. I will say that they make a compelling case for…
Analyssa: All of my points come true here. You can see it in action.
Drew: Yeah. As a fellow Sinley shipper, maybe not as intensely as Riese, this isn’t what I wanted to happen. But as I was watching it, I was like, feel bad for Finley, feel good for me. And you know, it is what it is. Sophie stops mid-fuck and is like, “We shouldn’t be doing this.” And Dani’s like, “Touch me.” And then that’s what happens. So…
Riese: I actually thought it was going to end there.
Analyssa: I did too.
Riese: Because she seemed pretty insistent.
Drew: Yeah. It’s interesting to compare both this and also the Sophie Finley sex scene that stops before it continues to some of the original show sex scenes, where I feel like you on To L and Back, the original, talked a lot about some of the ways that the show didn’t handle consent well. And I feel like in Gen Q, it feels like it’s handled a lot better. Like it’s maybe a little bit messy, definitely complicated, but it feels a lot clearer in the sense that I feel like the creators of the show know what the intention is. Even if something’s a little bit messy or a little bit, whatever. I feel like they’re on the same page. Whereas in the original show, sometimes there’d be sex scenes where someone would ask to stop, and I’d be like, oh, this feels like they really should stop and it feels like the creators don’t realize that. And so, I mean, I’ve already talked about how much I think the sex scenes are really a real standout of Gen Q, but this felt like the sort of thing where Sophie later might be, complicated about it, but not in a way where, I don’t know, in my opinion that it feels like I crossed the line into being like, ah, what did they do? You know what I mean?
Riese: Marja, when I interviewed her, talked about how they wanted to be really clear about consent. And she was saying one of the first scenes of the first series, they were having Finley hit on people and fail, and that it was important that they showed Finley being like, okay. Finley always says, she says “copy that” all the time, which I think is because Marja says that all the time maybe. I’m not sure.
Drew: Wait, is Finley a stand-in for Marja?
Riese: But when some of them was like, “No,” she’s like, “Copy that,” and like moved on to the next person just to show like, yes, this is a series where people take no for an answer.
Drew: It’s not something we talk about in queer community enough. We have this idea that it doesn’t affect us. And it’s just obviously not true, and so I appreciate that.
Drew: I don’t know how to have a transition to this next theme, but um…
Riese: Angie’s on the prowl for a therapist.
Analyssa: She’s making moves immediately. She’s like, we got to get this done.
Drew: I love that.
Analyssa: And Micah finds her in the lobby of his building and she’s like, “I need someone to talk to.” And he’s like, “Okay, we’ll make you an appointment.” She’s like, “No, now.” And he says that he has a few minutes, even though he has plans with Maribel.
Drew: Yeah. Is this a conflict of interest or do they have enough remove?
Analyssa: I was like, this feels a little bit invasive, but the kid needs to talk to someone now so…
Drew: Yeah. It’s fine. I was like, I don’t know, seems okay. Like your mom’s former employee is my friend. Like that does feel like there’s enough of a remove.
Riese: Yeah. Well, and also I think Angie’s drama is going to be so separate from the people that Micah is connected to, because she’s a teenager and somehow the most emotionally mature person on the show.
Drew: Yeah. I love connecting Micah also more into the main — I think this was a really smart move. Even if it is a minor conflict of interest, I’m like, let’s conflict.
Riese: Yeah. Because also we get to see him work, you know?
Drew: Yeah, totally. So speaking of people who are at work, Bette is hanging out in the dark outside Pippa’s. Bette’s a full fan girl.
Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “You changed me on a molecular level.” I’m like, Bette, dial it back.
Analyssa: And lists every show that she’s seen of Pippa’s, which is all of them, it turns out.
Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Doesn’t she always says this to artists though. I don’t think she — I feel like she’s been like, “I wrote my senior thesis about you” to 75 different artists.
Drew: Her senior thesis was really long.
Drew: I love seeing Bette in this mode. Because I just like always love when the power dynamic with Bette is like where she is, and I’m glad that that’s where this whole season’s going. Like first Gigi, now Pippa. I love when Bette has taken off her, I don’t know, when she’s not the one in control. Pippa does let Bette in and asks if she needs smelling salts. And honestly, I think she does.
Riese: She is enthralled.
Analyssa: She’s so overwhelmed by this workshop area.
Riese: Yeah. This art cave, where I guess Pippa’s just been making art for herself?
Drew: Yeah, I guess so. Well she is showing, she’s just showing anonymously, I guess?
Analyssa: And in really small galleries, I think is the point.
Analyssa: But she is very aware of Bette’s game, which Drew said this sort of, but she’s like:
Pippa: I will not be manipulated by you.
Analyssa: Good for her.
Analyssa: For someone who’s been in the woods of Topanga for decades, good for her. She reads this situation immediately.
Drew: Speaking of someone who’s not as straightforward. Okay. So Sophie, I realized what her problem is, is that she is incapable of not lying. And look, it’s an L Word tradition, but maybe Sophie and Bette need to have some hangouts and talk about what it’s like to not lie. Because here’s the thing, is that Sophie, what does she think? Like this is what’s fascinating about people who lie. Because I’m a terrible liar, I can’t get away with it, so I don’t really do it. But I just am like, you’re going to get caught.
Drew: Most people who lie get caught when you’re in this incestuous gay friend group. In what world is Finley never going to find out where you were? In what world? Just say on the phone, “Dani is going through this crisis. I’m here. It’s so complicated. Can I please have a rain check?” And then it’s like, “Oh, you’re with your…” Like, you know, the energy is like, “Oh I’m with my nightmare ex,” even who gives Finley feelings. You don’t have to be like, “We’re fucking right now.” But the lying is just like, you’re going to get caught.
Drew: But morals aside, like you’re going to get caught.
Drew: And then there’s the moral side of it. But like, I just like, come on Sophie.
Riese: Yeah. I also like, so first I was so relieved that she called and canceled, because I was like, I cannot handle a scene of Finley sitting in the fucking sushi restaurant waiting and her not showing up, which is what I was emotionally steeling myself for, because I hate that trope so much. Like it’s just so sad and it’s also so unnecessary, because it’s not that hard to just call or text and cancel. So I was like, at least she’s calling, so I can be personally spared Finley looking at her watch, looking at the food, getting the check, being like, “Well, I guess she’s not coming.” You know what I’m talking about? We’ve seen this a million times.
Analyssa: Yeah, sending texts that go on answered.
Riese: Exactly. Right. Like, “Hey you coming, you coming?” Question mark. Question mark. Question mark.
Analyssa: “I’m here. I have a table.”
Riese: Right. Yeah. “I’m here. Errr, okay, well I guess I’m going to go.” And then I wrote immediately, “For sure, Micah is going to blow her cover.” Micah lives in a house with Finley and you just had Dani call Micah to tell her where she was. Also, I know that Finley is supposed to be an idiot or whatever, but Dani has that house in Ojai, that’s where they were going to go for their honeymoon. It would not be that hard. Either she’s at A Camp, or she’s seeing Dani.
Drew: So either way, she’s having sex with someone who isn’t Finley.
Riese: Right. Exactly. But at least she did a rain check. So I was like, all right, at least she’s not like going full on. I had no critical eye on this, I’m just fully judging this as a fan of this relationship. I was like, okay, so she’s not deciding that she’s going to be with Dani. You know?
Analyssa: But then she goes and gets right back into bed with Dani.
Analyssa: Which is tough.
Drew: You hate to see it? Or you love to see it?
Riese: Drew loves to see it.
Drew: No, I’m with you. This is what I’m watching The L Word for it. This is the kind of chaos and drama I want.
Analyssa: This is what you want to be mad about, is Sophie making a bad decision and lying when she shouldn’t have?
Drew: Right, yeah, that’s the fun stuff. So Angie tells Bette that she saw a therapist, which is something that maybe Sophie should do also. That’s what we call a reverse transition. And then Angie asks Bette to come to therapy alongside Tina and Carrie. Angie is carrying this family. She is doing so much to try to make them help and communicate. And she is a full child and you know what? It makes me have a lot of feelings and that’s all I’m going to say about that.
Riese: Yeah. Wow. What teenager is like, “I’ve secured a therapist for a family counseling session.” No, you’re like, “Mom, I want to meet my dad!” That’s what you do. And then you storm out. Not Angie. She’s emotionally mature. Sorry for yelling, Carol.
Drew: Yeah. Someone who isn’t emotionally mature, Alice is talking to Tom. Tom asks Alice if Bette is still dating Alice’s ex’s ex-wife. And I really enjoyed that. And also Alice knows that Tom has a good memory for gossip, which makes me further proof that these two are going to get together.
Riese: You know what’s interesting about that?
Riese: It’s that I think in the original series, if Alice had gotten together with her male book editor, it would have been like, “Oh, why isn’t she dating a woman?” But now there’s so many lesbian couples on TV that I really want Alice to date her editor.
Analyssa: Yeah. At first, when he first showed up and they were kind of quipping back and forth, I was anti for one scene. And then I was like, “Actually, this could be fun for her. I hope she does!”
Drew: I mean, also, not that I think Gen Q should exist to make up for the sins of the original show, and I think actually when it tries to do that too directly, it makes the show bad and creates new sins, but I do think that just from a place of realism, putting aside that the original show was biphobic, this is what queer women community looks like. People are not all lesbians. Actually I’d say the majority of my queer women community aren’t lesbians, maybe aren’t even women. It’s just, it’s so much messier and there’s so many more identities and experiences, and Alice is canonically bisexual. There’s no reason why she should exclusively be hooking up with people who are cis women. I mean, it’d be great to have instead of some cis dude to have lots of other people, but I’ll take it. I’ll take a cis dude. I feel the same way I do when a bisexual friend of mine starts dating a cis dude, especially a straight one, and I’m like, “You know what? He’s nice. He’s good. I support it. And I can’t wait to hang out and he can come to all the parties,” but, and that’s how I do. This guy who wants to have good breath, even though he gets juicy fruit? No one’s perfect.
Riese: Speaking of the sins of the original series, this is the scene during which I shed a full tear.
Analyssa: This was a full cry for me.
Riese: He says that the one chapter they haven’t revisited is the Dana chapter, and of course she’s like, “I don’t want to do that.” And then he opens up about his brother dying when he was young. And then she started talking about Dana. I’m going to cry just thinking about it. It was so, I don’t know. Because it’s also, they never talk about Dana as we all have done.
Analyssa: Yeah. And this is a really… It does not make up for them never talking about Dana, a friend who they loved and who died way too young, but it kind of eulogizes her in the show. It gives her sort of this moment of importance that I don’t think we’ve really seen. I thought it was really lovely.
Drew: And it justifies the lack of conversation around her by making it out to be like a defense mechanism for Alice that she doesn’t want to talk about it because it’s too painful. And that, I think, is a really smart move given what has been established so far. And yeah, I thought it was… I really liked this. I thought it was really well done.
Alice: I see her when my eyes are closed, but I also see her when my eyes are open. I can hear her laugh. I smell her smell. I can feel her. And I miss her so much sometimes, the emptiness is like… But there’s nothing I can do about it because she’s gone, and I do not want to dwell on the fact that she was taken from me and robbed of a life because of some fucking disease. Okay. I don’t want to do it, Tom. Okay?
Analyssa: When Alice was like, “I see her when my eyes are closed and when my eyes are open,” that really wrecked me. I’m thinking about it again and just sad.
Riese: I know. I started crying immediately.
Analyssa: It sounds like they’re going to get a good chapter out of it though.
Riese: Yeah. I can’t wait to read the book.
Analyssa: Tom makes a joke about Alice’s speech being like-
Tom: You think maybe you could say that again, but maybe just a little bit slower so I could jot it down. I know.
Alice: Oh my god, you’re the worst.
Tom: I know.
Analyssa: That broke the moment too in a really nice way. He wants goss, but he’s also supportive.
Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Drew: Speaking of supportive men, Micah is on his double date and Maribel’s like, “How’s it going?” And he’s like, “Yeah, I’m not really feeling it.” And he is like, “because I’m actually into women as well,” which I was a little confused by because I was like, what is that? Why is that? What does that have to do with what your feelings are about this guy? I just feel like this is the sort of thing that just feels like who’s the audience of this? Because if you want to get like real queer what this could be, it so easily could have been like, “I’ve realized that I’m into women as well and I think I want to sort of focus on that and focused on exploring that side of myself.” Just say that. Just say that he wants to focus on exploring that side of himself. That makes total sense, and it’s totally—
Riese: Like it’s an identity that he needs to explore?
Drew: Yeah. That’s a thing that people talk about. Yeah.
Riese: I thought he was bisexual this whole time.
Drew: I thought he was too. That’s the other thing, I don’t know why it has to be a thing.
Riese: Yeah. I understood him saying this because it felt like this would be the kind of way that Micah, who does not know how to talk about having feelings, would come around to talking about his feelings.
Drew: That makes sense.
Analyssa: This is what I was just about to say, is the way that I read it, and Drew your read is actually smarter, but the way that I took it was when I was in high school and early college, sometimes the game would be like, “Haha, I have a crush,” and a person will be like, “Oh, on who?” And you’re like, “Oh, nobody you know, don’t even worry about it.” That is sort of in the universe of what it felt like Micah was saying, “I like women,” wink, wink, and Mari’s like, “Oh also I have a girl.” And Micah’s like, “Oh, that’s not quite what I wanted to pull you towards.”
Drew: Yeah. I actually like that explanation more because that makes more sense. Micah has been bisexual, but is awkwardly coming out. Actually that justifies it. I actually really like that. That makes so much more sense than this is something that he’s exploring. I much prefer that. Sometimes people aren’t exploring things.
Analyssa: A win for teenage Annalysa.
Drew: Yeah. This reminded me of the time that I had asked my sister, before my first middle school dance, “How do I ask a girl to dance?” And my sister was like, “Ask her to teach you how to dance and then she’s going to teach you how to dance, and then all of a sudden you’re dancing and you’ve done it.” And I was like, “Okay.” And so I asked my crush to teach me how to slow dance, and so she turned towards our other friend and showed on this other girl, showed how to slow dance. And then it was like, and the songs playing it’s probably “A Moment Like This” by Kelly Clarkson. And then is like, “And now go ask someone,” and I just stood there and stared. I so easily could have pivoted to be cool and been like, “How about you? Do you want to dance?” And instead I just stood there, not saying a word until the song ended. And that was my… But that person ended up being my first girlfriend. And also it’s the origin story for why I love direct communication because what I should’ve done is just said, “Hey Courtney, do you want to dance?”
Riese: Yeah. Could have been like, “Some people wait a lifetime for a moment like this, in which I would ask you to date. Dance.”
Riese: Dancing is a prerequisite, I guess, to dating.
Analyssa: So that’s what I feel like Micah was doing, was asking Mari to teach him how to dance.
Riese: Then her Lyft came, and once again, my desires have been thwarted on this program, this episode.
Drew: By a Lyft.
Riese: By a Lyft.
Analyssa: This was the moment where I was like, my notes say Riese has manifested. This, I was like, oh, I felt like my brain instantly was like, oh, we’re cooking with gas now. Sort of the way that Drew was like, if Sophie and Finley went on a date that would have been meant bad stuff later. I was like, if Mari is going to set Micah up with another woman, I think we’re in.
Riese: Yeah. Yeah. We’re in. We’re in. It’s happening. At least we know from this scene, absolutely, he has a crush. We know that.
Drew: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Analyssa: Speaking of crushes, Bette and Pippa are at a very fancy dinner.
Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative). I’m obsessed with this scene.
Riese: I’m sure, I was like, “This is for Drew.” I was like, “Drew is going to love this.”
Drew: Just two powerful women discussing how to navigate the art world and what you do with how you navigate shitty bosses and what’s strategic versus what’s selling out. This is great. I love it. I love every minute of it.
Riese: Who tells who that she’s the most beautiful… Oh, Bette tells…
Analyssa: Bette tells Pippa that she’s the most beautiful woman she’s ever seen.
Drew: No, but before that Pippa says to Bette—
Pippa: It’s nice talking to someone as smart as you.
Pippa: And as beautiful. You know you’re beautiful, of course. How could you not know? So I think it’s okay to mention it.
Drew: It’s so good because it’s not Pippa being like, “I think you’re beautiful.” It’s being like, “I’m naming something that’s basic and I honestly couldn’t care less.” And also like… But then yeah, then Bette’s like, “You’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen.”
Riese: Good Jodi energy where Pippa is topping this conversation and Bette is just running to keep up.
Drew: Yeah. Oh my God. And so then when she’s leaving Bette grabs her hand and Pippa says—
Pippa: Don’t touch me like this… unless you’re coming home with me.
Riese: My note here is, “Everyone is really horny on this show.”
Drew: I love how horny everyone is. It’s the representation I need. There’s not a lot of great trans representation, but there’s great horny representation. Great top for top representation. Great horny representation.
Analyssa: Forward representation. People are always just saying stuff.
Riese: Yeah. They’re shooting their shot on this show.
Riese: And oh, and also she basically, Bette’s trying to get Pippa to be in the gallery and she’s refusing.
Drew: Yeah. That’s the meat of the…
Analyssa: Pippa keeps saying that she can’t or won’t work with Bette, but you know what? I bet she might kiss her. She could do that.
Riese: Yeah. I think she’s going to show.
Drew: Zakarian doesn’t have to be there for the kissing. Zakarian has no involvement.
Analyssa: The good thing about Zakarian is this dinner was on him.
Drew: That is true.
Analyssa: Thank you, sir, for your service.
Drew: And that’s strategic.
Riese: I hope she expensed her gas to Topanga.
Analyssa: I hope so. Yeah. You could expense gas and mileage. That’d be great.
Riese: And then…
Drew: Okay, so I love this.
Riese: Justice for Gigi.
Analyssa: Justice for Gigi.
Drew: So, I mean, just so yeah. So Bette’s horny because of Pippa so goes home, fucks Gigi.
Analyssa: Just a normal, get it out of your system kind of fuck.
Drew: But Bette’s so over it. It’s a mess. It is not the hotness of the original, but it’s a very good sex scene as far as dynamics go. I really, I don’t think a sex scene needs to tell a story, sometimes it can just be hot, but this tells a story.
Analyssa: This one was telling you a story.
Riese: Yeah, I do wish that we got just maybe one scene of Bette talking about Gigi to a third party. Because I’ve decided in my head that she just doesn’t want to be alone, basically, and Gigi’s hot and she’s just kind of doing it. She knows she doesn’t have strong feelings, but she’s just basically filling space.
Analyssa: Right. And they both can bring up the physical passion. They’re both good at, as we said, kissing each other. So why not do it?
Riese: But Gigi just got on so well with Dani that at this point, I’m just like, that’s where all my cards are.
Drew: Sophie, Finley, Dani, Gigi, Bette, Pippa, Tess, Shane, Micah, Maribel.
Riese: Perfect. Utopia. Oh, Tina and Carrie.
Drew: Yeah. But that’s a given. I mean, I know it’s not a given for the Bettina shippers out there who think that that’s still happening, and maybe this is naive of me, but I’m really not worried about Tina cheating on Carrie.
Analyssa: How could you cheat on perfect angel, Rosie O’Donnell?
Drew: I mean, maybe that’s where they’re going with it, but that’d be such a bummer. I miss her. Where’s Carrie? Why isn’t Carrie in this episode?
Analyssa: Okay. Speaking of happy pairings and cute little couples, Shane has set up a projector for a movie night outside of Tess’s. Shane is in deep right now. I don’t know if Shane knows that Shane is in deep, but as an objective, as I can be, third-party I was like, whoa.
Drew: I get it. If Jamie Clayton was gay, I’d be in love with her.
Analyssa: I was going to say, I feel that way when Jamie Clayton’s on screen too. Sure.
Riese: I have a cinema question. Is it true, I thought this was true, but I’m not sure. Because I remember, I’m a person, I’ve watched TV for a long time, and I’m like, God, why are there so many characters on TV, including literal teenagers, who are like, “I love classic films from the ’20s.” It’s because they can get the rights to those easier than films that these characters might actually be watching, right?
Drew: That makes sense. I’ve never thought about that because I’m this. So I’m always like, “Yes, this is what we do.”
Riese: Of course everyone loves Casablanca.
Analyssa: I think there’s probably two things. Number one, the rights. Because they’re older, they’re closer to not a common domain because that doesn’t really exist in movies, but like that. And also because they’re the ones that have sort of endured, you have a reference for what Casablanca is, versus something a little more recent, you might run the risk of people being like, “What the fuck is that?”
Riese: But I do feel like people would know what Pretty Woman is, or they would know what Ghostbusters is, but you never see that.
Drew: I would have loved if they had shown Desert Hearts.
Riese: Yeah, Desert Hearts or But I’m a Cheerleader.
Drew: Especially because you have this audience of lesbians watching this, it would have been a great opportunity to show… To advertise for… I mean, Desert Hearts is in The Miseducation of Cameron Post. Yes. Why aren’t they just watching Suicide Kale? Can you imagine? That’d be wild. That’d be great. I think they should. They should have done that. I have two notes about this. One, Kate Moennig was in the gay live read of Casablanca. That was like the first thing I went to when I moved to LA, and was the beginning of one of the first pieces I wrote for Autostraddle was about going to that. Fun fact. And the second thing is that it bothered me so much that when the projector turns on, it’s the climax of Casablanca and not the opening. I was like, I mean, I guess it’s just Shane doesn’t know how to use the projector, and obviously they wanted it to be a memorable… I get it. But I was like, what? No, this isn’t the opening credits of Casablanca. This is the climax of Casablanca. Come on. That bothered me. I didn’t even think about why would they be watching Casablanca? Because why wouldn’t you want to watch Casablanca?
Riese: Every time someone comes home from… And they find someone on the couch, they’re like, oh yeah, you know, I really love these gangster movies from the ’50s. And it’s like, do you? You’re 17. You’re born in 2005.
Drew: That’s fair. My favorite movie when I was 17 was The Red Shoes. 1948.
Riese: Mine was The Breakfast Club.
Analyssa: My favorite movie when I was 17 was probably still Juno.
Riese: Classic trans cinema.
Drew: So basically what’s happening in this scene. Well, so Tessa’s mom isn’t doing well. And so she and Shane are sitting in these lawn chairs and talking about serious things and Shane loves some vulnerability coming at her, not necessarily sharing it herself. And then Shane kisses her, Tess pulls away and says, “Sorry, I’m seeing someone.”
Analyssa: The drama of it all.
Riese: Sorry, Carol.
Drew: Yeah. Yeah. But here’s the thing about when people are seeing someone, they can quickly stop seeing someone and start seeing you instead.
Riese: Yeah, you can do that.
Analyssa: Things can change so fast.
Drew: Yeah. So Dani and Sophie are still in bed. Dani says that she thought that they would grow old in this house.
Riese: In Ojai surrounded by the citizens of Ojai?
Drew: Yeah. Dani talks about being career-driven and Sophie, we learn that Sophie wanted to make a documentary about lesbians in Buffalo in the ’40s and ’50s, which is cool.
Riese: It’s probably, you know that book, Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold? It’s about lesbian communities in Buffalo in the ’40s and ’50s.
Drew: Cool. I haven’t read that.
Analyssa: Oh that’s cool.
Riese: That’s why I was like, oh, she read that book. It’s mostly, it’s about butch-femme dynamics and stuff. And sort of these working class — because obviously in the ’40s, a lot of lesbians were able to get jobs finally because of the war and that’s where they also met other lesbians and they formed these communities and then it was the ’50s and everyone was really conservative and they had to figure out how to live. So it’s about one of those communities.
Drew: Yeah. There’s like a little of that in Stone Butch Blues.
Riese: Yeah. And Dani asked who Sophie was talking to earlier and reminds her that she’s a bad liar, and I’m like, “Is she? She kind of lied to you for several months.”
Analyssa: That’s true.
Drew: Dani knew.
Riese: You think? Oh right. Your theory. I think your theory is solid now.
Drew: Dani knew something was wrong. Dani didn’t know that she had had sex at Finley, but I think Dani probably thought that Sophie was having doubts because of the fighting they’d had. I really liked this as… Especially after having just watched Sophie lie, having Dani… Because it also shows that it can be really hard sometimes when you are breaking up with someone and there’s someone new who is exciting and you have chemistry with and whatever, but they don’t know you the way… I mean, it’s a little bit different because Finley and Sophie are such good friends, but it’s still — this for me was Dani being like, “I know you better than Finley knows you,” which is probably true and painful to watch because it should be the end.
Riese: I thought this was so realistic. This felt so authentic. Yeah, they’ve been banging and it was great, but then as soon as the real world invades their conversation, they’re at each other’s throats again immediately. And Dani is like, “How were you not mad at her?” She asked if they’re dating and Sophie’s like, “I don’t know what we’re doing,” which surprised me. Because it seems like, again, if Sophie doesn’t know if they’re dating or not, is it true that she told Finley to give her space? Everyone just is giving… There’s a lot of mixed messages here.
Drew: But I think there’s a lot of mixed feelings.
Riese: That’s true. You’re right. She’s confused.
Analyssa: Yeah. This is also a TV thing where friends give advice based on the last thing they heard their friends say instead of hearing the evidence and saying, “Oh, she definitely did say to give you space, but that is weird that she asked you to dinner. Maybe be a little more cautious.” Or maybe, instead of being like, “She said space, don’t talk to her.” But I did think that this whole progression from the time-honored tradition of post-ex sex, like, “This is what I thought our lives would be like, isn’t it so nice in this little bubble that we’ve built. Remember when we thought all these things would happen?”
Analyssa: Again, not speaking from personal experience, only allegedly. Moving into like, “Oh, actually there’s all these reasons that this was not ever going to be a thing.” I do think it was interesting that Dani seems more upset that Sophie isn’t pissed at Finley, that she just fucked her right now while maybe having feelings for Finley.
Analyssa: That distinction was really interesting to me.
Drew: Yeah, that is interesting.
Riese: It was also interesting when Dani got mad that Sophie’s response was, “You told me not to lie.” Like that was her comeback.
Analyssa: The whole defense was, “Well, you said to be honest, so here we are.”
Riese: Like, that’s not the issue, babe. It’s that the honest truth was one she didn’t care for. The solution to that isn’t—
Drew: Sophie is not perfect person. I’m going to go on the record and say that.
Riese: She’s not. She’s not. None of us are. I have empathy for Sophie, obviously.
Analyssa: I do too. I also think, though, that this showed sort of what we’ve been saying for a season and a half, is that they don’t really know how to communicate, which even lends to they don’t really know how to fight. They’re sort of fighting past each other.
Drew: Yeah. Totally.
Analyssa: They’re saying different… They’re in different boxing rooms, throwing punches at each other.
Riese: And that Sophie finally feels more competent in her career and excited about it is a sign that this breakup is good and that she seems to be better at talking to Dani about it now than she ever has been before. And Dani seems more excited for her than she was before. I also thought another funny thing is that Dani’s, probably because she just had sex with Sophie, she’s really mad at Finley. She’s like, “Aren’t you mad at Finley for ruining our wedding?” And yeah, but also Sophie is the one who—
Analyssa: Finley did embarrass them in front of people they know, totally. But what she didn’t do was show up as a guest to their wedding, and I don’t know, strip naked and run around and boycott the wedding. She was saying something that Sophie had a part in.
Riese: Yeah. She didn’t cheat on anyone.
Analyssa: She didn’t just appear to show chaos.
Drew: I mean, this is why I pretty much… Look, Finley’s friends with Dani so I do think that it was wrong of her. But I generally do think that the person who’s cheating has more responsibility than the person who is having sex with the cheater.
Riese: The other person.
Drew: But I think it’s easier for people to be mad at the other person. I mean I think this comes up in straight culture all the time.
Drew: When people are mad at the other woman, and it’s like, “Be mad at your husband, babe.” You know? But it’s harder to be mad at the person you love.
Riese: Because you’re trying to make it work with them, too.
Riese: You know what I mean?
Analyssa: Or you’re in this post post breakup sex bubble.
Riese: Yeah. And I mean, is interrupting a wedding to confess your love ever a good move? No.
Drew: I want to say no.
Riese: Absolutely not. That was bad. We all know that. But it’s just interesting. And then also when she’s mad about it and Sophie’s like—
Sophie: You told me it was over. And I believed you. You’re just so full of conviction.
Dani: No. Don’t put this on me.
Sophie: Well, is it not over between us?
Drew: They don’t know what they want. No one knows what they want.
Riese: It’s hard to know what you want.
Analyssa: Yeah, and Riese, to your thing, I don’t know what episode of they don’t know what they want, but they also don’t really know who they are without each other yet. And so it’s very easy to drop everything and go look for your ex because you know where she might be hiding. And then when you guys are in bed together to be like, “God, this is what it would have been like.” Sophie doesn’t know how to be the person who blew up her life. And Dani doesn’t really know how to be the person who doesn’t have Sophie. And neither of them know how to be the person that aren’t Dani and Sophie.
Riese: Yeah, definitely.
Analyssa: So it’s very complicated.
Drew: Yeah. Well, and now it’s complicated for Finley as well because Micah accidentally lets it slip that Sophie was seeing Dani, and Finley is very sad. And then we get one of our classic montages. Finley gets on a scooter. That’s how you know someone’s spiraling when they get on one of these scooters.
Analyssa: One of those rental scooters from the side of the road in Los Angeles? That’s a bad sign.
Riese: Bird? She gets a Bird?
Drew: Yeah. Alice goes home and is crying.
Riese: Alice hugs Lenore.
Analyssa: And cries.
Riese: I cried.
Drew: Maribel and Micah are texting. And I’m just shouting, “Be direct, Micah!” But you know what he’s not? He is not direct.
Analyssa: He did draft a very forward text, but then he didn’t send it.
Drew: Send the forward text. This is my message to all of you listeners. Send, do it. What do you… Why not? It’s a pandemic. It’s still a pandemic.
Analyssa: Not in The L Word: Generation Q.
Drew: No, it’s not. That’s true. But the pandemic could happen. You know, they should always be prepared.
Analyssa: They don’t know yet, but a pandemic could happen in their lifetime. They’re still living in normal precedented times thinking that everything in the rest of their life is going to be precedented.
Riese: I have a friend who worked on the show and I was like, “Can you tell me any spoilers?” So of course she was like, “No.” She’s like, “I will tell you one thing, which is that they’re going to pretend like there was never any pandemic in this country.” And I was like, “Oh good. That’s nice.”
Drew: For The L Word, that’s the right choice.
Analyssa: For The L Word, that’s great.
Drew: I’m actually on… I think a lot of people really don’t want shows to take the pandemic into account or make work about the pandemic. I’m not of that mind. I actually am interested in seeing how different shows handle it. But I think it’s important to know what the tone of your show is. And Gen Q not having pandemic in the world is very much the right choice.
Riese: Yeah. Of course Grey’s Anatomy has to have pandemic in the world.
Analyssa: Riese, thank you so much for bringing up Grey’s Anatomy. That was important to me.
Drew: Yeah. So then the montage ends with Finley going to a liquor store.
Analyssa: I’m so nervous for her.
Drew: I know. It’s not fair.
Riese: Yeah. Because now she’s just going to be on a bender and she’s not going to talk to Sophie about her feelings and everything is going to be wild and weird.
Analyssa: But luckily one direction things are not going to be wild and weird in is that Dani and Sophie are outside of the manor. And Sophie’s like, “I have to leave.” Where it doesn’t really feel mean or like they’re ending on bad terms, but it is just pretty final.
Analyssa: And Dani says that—
Dani: I think we dodged a bullet, you and me.
Drew: They did.
Analyssa: And can confirm. But it’s also sort of like, maybe you could stay. I didn’t really… It was kind of-
Riese: I didn’t understand.
Riese: Because she was like, “But this feels easy,” or whatever. Does she mean now that we decided not to get married it’s easier to be around each other? Which yeah, of course. You were about to get married.
Analyssa: Because you two didn’t want to get married. And you didn’t want to get married.
Riese: Again, it was a bad idea. So of course. But also, what do you mean by… Does that mean you are going to keep seeing each other?
Drew: I don’t think she knows.
Analyssa: Yeah. It seems to have dropped into that weird, “Are we going to be friends who have a fraught history? Or are we…” Like it’s maybe going to be more explicitly romantic, but under the guise of — that sort of in between very-broken-up and very-together are these spectrum of, “Yeah, we’re just friends, but sometimes we joke about how we’ve seen each other naked.” Or, “We’re still hooking up, but we’re not together.” Those are all somewhere in the middle and I think they might be falling somewhere in there.
Riese: Oh yeah, and then I think the other thing is that when you’re in the center of a drama, it’s all you can think about. You’re like, “Everyone’s judging us and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” But in truth, no one cares anymore. Everyone cared about the drama when it happened but after that they’re just kind of everyone’s thinking about themselves. They’re not thinking about your drama.
Drew: Yeah. It’s a good lesson. And so with that, I don’t know if it’s really a cliffhanger as much as it is just a vague, sad couple breaking up, not fully committing to the breakup moment with that. It’s the episode.
Riese: That’s the episode!
Analyssa: Less of a cliffhanger, more of a small boulder rolling slowly down a cliff.
Riese: Exactly. Like a rolling stone gathering moss. Or not.
Drew: That is the expression. Okay, so what did we think about this episode?
Riese: I thought there was a lot of crying. By me.
Analyssa: This one was sad.
Riese: It was very emotional.
Drew: Yeah. The second episode is the one that I enjoyed the most, but I think this is the best episode of the season so far. Just from a character motivation, where the storylines are going, just everything. I pretty much felt the depth and the purpose to most of what happened this episode. And I did still enjoy a lot of it, even though it was sad. But you know, sometimes gays are sad.
Riese: Most, usually.
Drew: Yeah, usually. The main thing that I’m a little bit ugh about is the whole Marcus dying thing. I guess I don’t really get where they’re going with that, but I guess we’ll see. But other than that, I love the Bette-Pippa stuff.
Drew: Yeah. Shocking. Never on brand. And I don’t know. I’m excited to see where all these storylines go. This does feel like sort of a precursor to some of the more intense drama, and I’m excited to see that drama. I also love… I love a bubble. I love when Dani and Sophie, even though I don’t want them to be together, I’m always really fascinated by these moments that people carve out for themselves where you are away from your normal life and you just connect and have… Honestly, this isn’t the kind of show that The L Word is, but I would watch an hour long bottle episode that was just Sophie and Dani at the not-lake lake house. I love when shows do stuff like that. And so having even this little taste of it, I really enjoyed seeing their dynamic and it felt really truthful. And I really liked that aspect of it. Even if I’m not rooting for them, but that’s not going anywhere. There’s no future there.
Riese: I feel like they are really following through with having all these other smaller characters have bigger roles this time, like with Micah, with Maribel, with Tess. And that’s really great. I think it’s giving the show a lot more energy. And the thing with the Marcus thing is I wasn’t sure what she was going to say, because I was like, “There’s no way they’re going to find that Canadian actor and bring him back to the show.” But now that we’ve seen Lenore… Honestly, now that we’ve seen Lenore, I’m like, “Maybe they will.”
Analyssa: Now they’ve opened the box of ghosts of L Word past, they’re really digging in there.
Riese: Yeah. They sure are.
Drew: What person who’s in very few episodes would you love to see come back?
Analyssa: Cobie Smulders, that artist that she played. That’s just, that’s a personal thirst decision. That has nothing to do with the story.
Drew: Yeah. That’s how I feel about Melanie Lynskey coming back.
Analyssa: Cobie Smulders in that little white tank top?
Drew: Yeah. Well, she’s more of a character. I don’t feel like—
Analyssa: She wasn’t in that many, though. She didn’t really get into the group.
Riese: She was in like three or four episodes, season six. Which I feel like people forget.
Drew: That’s it?
Riese: Yeah. Because no one watches season six again. You saw it one time, you put it out of your mind.
Drew: I don’t know why, she really left an impression. Okay. I’m on board with you. Then yeah, bring back Jamie.
Riese: Yeah. I thought she only did a few episodes, also she worked at the LGBT center, so there’s no reason for her not to be there. I love that actress.
Drew: I’d like Lisa to come back, but it be recast as a trans woman.
Riese: As a trans woman. Yeah. That would be nice. But I mean, when they had Lenore it was like, Marcus might really be coming back.
Riese: You know?
Drew: It was impressive.
Riese: We’ll see.
Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at email@example.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here… Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?
Drew: My L word is love. Because—
Analyssa: Wow. Profound.
Riese: Love wins?
Drew: Because, in my love-hate relationship with The L Word, this week it’s skewed towards love. And maybe it’s because I’m in Canada and I’m in a good mood, but I was very on board for this episode. And I am happy to be happy with my chaotic friends once more.
Analyssa: Okay. Mine’s Lenore.
Riese: Oh, that’s mine too!
Drew: That’s so exciting though!
Riese: I was like, “Mine’s dumb. Just pick something dumb.” This is the first time I’ve ever — we’ve ever had two people picking the same word.
Riese: Yeah. And what a word.
Analyssa: I was going to say, and I’m so happy it was her.
Riese: Lenore. Just here she is, with her lips.
Analyssa: We’re basically Shane right now.
Riese: Yeah. Basically.
Analyssa: Lenore on the mind.
Riese: One of many similarities. We have a private jet and we have Lenore on the mind.
Analyssa: And we’ve had the same haircut for 20 years.
Riese: That’s actually true. I have.
Analyssa: I have not, but—
Riese: Well I guess I had a little dyke-y haircut back then.
Analyssa: That’s because I’m a Sagittarius.
Riese: I’m a Libra.
Drew: And Shane isn’t.
Analyssa: Shane’s not.
Drew: Shane is probably a Pisces.
Analyssa: Documentedly a Pisces.
Analyssa: We did a lot of research, which mostly led us back to Riese’s interview with Marja.
Riese: Well, I hope everyone has a nice weekend in Ojai.
Drew: I hope so too.
Analyssa: Find a lake house, if you can.
Riese: Yeah. Doesn’t need to have a lake.
Drew: Don’t sex with your ex. Unless you want to, and then you should. Have fun. Be safe out there, kids.
Drew: Make good choices.