They’re still friends, but that actually makes it even more complicated…

Q1:

My wife (35F) and I (39F) have been excitedly exploring our options for starting a family. She will be the one carrying the child. Since insurance won’t cover it and sperm banks are incredibly expensive, we’ve been considering at-home insemination with a known donor. My brother had to decline for now, as he and his wife are focusing on starting their own family. I’ve been open to finding a donor through Facebook, but my wife wasn’t thrilled with that idea.

Then, she came home one day with what she thought was the perfect solution: her ex-boyfriend. They dated in college a decade ago, they’ve remained close friends (he was even a “bridesman” at our wedding), and we all get along well. He lives nearby, is currently single, and although I suspect he might still have feelings for my wife, she assures me he’s just a ‘weird egg’ who hasn’t found the right person yet. She thinks it’s the ideal situation; he’s willing to sign away all parental rights, not be involved in the child’s life, and keep it a secret until we’re ready. He’s also tall. He simply wants to help us achieve our dream of having a family.

I’m just having a hard time envisioning a scenario where this man wouldn’t become a part of the child’s life. We already see him about once a month, you know? It feels like it wouldn’t be just my wife and I having a baby together, but rather a “throuple” situation. When I expressed my concerns, my wife suggested that having another person who genuinely wants to help with the baby, especially with our demanding jobs, could be a positive thing. She even said that if I’m not comfortable using her ex as a donor, I should be prepared to cover the entire cost of sperm myself (it’s around 2,000 a vial). She later apologized and said she was just stressed and didn’t mean it, but she still doesn’t quite understand my reservations, emphasizing that she married me and not him for a reason.

So, here I am, wondering if we should just proceed with using her ex.

A:

Riese: This is fucking tough. Sperm is really outrageously expensive and a good man is hard to find. I think five years ago I may have said “this is a terrible idea and don’t do it,” but now that I’m more familiar with the stress and expense of trying to conceive as a queer couple, especially over the age of 35 —I wouldn’t discount it outright.

Since you’re doing it at home you won’t have to go through all the counseling sessions and stuff they’d make you do with a known donor if you were using a clinic, but you might want to look into that as a first step — speaking to a counselor together, first just the two of you, and then all three of you. (Also, he should get his sperm looked at asap before you get too deeply into any of this —make sure what he’s working with is workable before any drama goes down!)

You’ll have to set really strict boundaries around his presence in your child’s life, including how this will be discussed not just with your child, but everybody else in your life. All of that needs to be decided on ahead of time. I understand your girlfriend’s point about needing help with childcare, but I’d set extremely clear boundaries around that — any help he provides should be the exact level of help he’d be providing as your friend. Everything needs to be out on the table and honest and transparent with all of you, and it would be worth talking to him directly about your fear that he still has feelings for her. I think your discomfort is totally fair, and your wife should be doing what she can to ease it, not making threats.

Summer: Now this is a complex situation.

A lot of the apprehension you’re feeling is exactly why formalized sperm donation is such a discreet process. Drawing a connection between your child and friend paves the way for interactions. If it’s going to be a secret, then all of you will have to carry it together. That’s not difficult in a relationship where everyone is on the same page. But introducing an ex who might have complex feelings about your wife is an uncertain factor that you have to address.

Doing this informally also means forgoing the legal and medical support structures that come with a formalized donation. Your friend can verbally assure you of a great deal about how the process will go, but you have very little recourse if something goes wrong. If something does go wrong, the damage is likely to be very personal and emotional. And it will involve him, your relationship, and possibly the child.

I could keep naming risks and points of consideration, but I also empathize with monetary strain. Reproductive treatments are frightfully expensive and you’re clearly discussing a range of alternatives with their own risk profiles and challenges.

The thing I think is missing in this conversation with your wife is consensus. I don’t think it’s ideal for anyone to be convinced to do something the other partner prefers with such high stakes. Childbirth and parenting decisions are of paramount importance. There needs to be unity in the couple about how to approach this. If it’s impossible to reach an agreeable solution about conception, what of the other challenges of parenting? What if something related to the conception plan goes wrong?

What I’m getting at is that if you reach an agreement you can both support, then any negative consequences can be addressed as a couple. Because you shared responsibility and consent to the decision. But if this is a decision that one person has talked the other into, the burdens of responsibility and risk are carried unequally. I think this requires more honest and difficult conversations with your wife to keep working it out. There’s still time to make the decision – years, even. That leaves time to reach that all-important consensus.

Sa’iyda: Yeah, this is certainly complex! Bringing a child into the world is complicated and messy no matter how you do it. But this is especially tricky, and it is going to bring up a lot of emotions. I think your wife feels like she’s found a solid workaround to your dilemma, and that could be making her extra sensitive, plus she’s probably freaking out about being the one who has to carry the baby and go through the physically brutal process of getting pregnant. That’s likely why she lashed out. Not excusing her behavior, but I can understand where her tension is coming from!

Here’s the thing: I think this is an incredibly viable option if you’re willing to do the work to put necessary boundaries in place, emotional and legal. You’re feeling the ick because it’s your wife’s ex, and you think he still has feelings for her. Valid, but also, she’s not with him anymore, she married you and wants to have a child with you. I think you need to sit in that discomfort. Is it really about his possible residual feelings, or are you feeling insecure because he can give her a child and you can’t? It’s important to recognize your real issue and find ways to work through it. Maybe he does genuinely want to help! And given the fact that you can’t afford sperm and sperm storage, you should let him help!

I truly don’t think this is all going to work without a therapist and a lawyer. You and your wife need to work out the emotional side of using her ex-boyfriend as a donor, and then I’d suggest bringing him in for a session or two so y’all are on the same page before you go any further. Then you all can use that time to create the boundaries you’ll need to move forward. When I say get everything in writing, I mean it! It may feel transactional, which can be weird when you’re friends, but you don’t want anything coming up in the future. Create a legal document for the waiving of rights and any other boundaries you think will be necessary. It’s harder to fight a legal document.

While he’s willing to not be a part of the child’s life, I think there are ways to have him be a part of their life without being a parent. Again, it will be about creating boundaries. He can be a fun uncle and maybe babysit occasionally, but he can’t be part of any major decision making. And if he violates that boundary, that can result in him losing access to the child. You don’t want to deprive your kid of another person who will love them just because they share DNA. Especially because childcare is expensive as hell, and you never want to turn down free childcare. I also recommend telling your child their conception story in age appropriate ways; there are resources for this. But that’s a ways away.

Basically, this is never going to be an easy process. But I genuinely think there are ways to make this work for everyone involved.

Your well-off friend says she’s okay with treating you, but how do you both talk about it — and then there’s the jealousy…

Q:

I’d love some advice on talking with a friend about money when you have wildly different income/wealth statuses.

I met my best friend in college. She comes from a wealthy background; I come from a home where there were a lot of struggles about money. After school I started my career in an industry that doesn’t pay much, but I’m frugal with saving & personal finance, and I’m proud to be in a solid, stable place financially. She went to law school, where she was similarly scrimping and saving on a low income through school. Now, she’s graduated and become a lawyer at a big firm with a high starting salary. And she makes…. many many times what I make. I’m so happy for her, she earned this! But, we’re trying to figure out what this means for our friendship dynamic. It felt like we were in a similar place financially, and now we’re super not.

Recently I spent a couple hundred on tickets to go see a show out of town with her for her birthday (which we both wanted to do). She called me later expressing discomfort that she hadn’t treated me since that amount is like a drop in the bucket to her, but she didn’t want it to come off pitying or patronizing, and wanting to name vulnerably that she was feeling this way and unsure what to do. I also feel conflicted – I mean, I WOULD, maybe, like to be treated, or split the cost, since it’s a lot for ye olde wallette – but I similarly feel squijabout the roles that puts us in. We’re both feeling awkward in these conversations as we try to navigate what this difference in financial status means for any power imbalance between us and establish new rules for how we’ll interact. I’ll admit, there’s also a part of me that feels super jealous that she now doesn’t have to worry about money whereas that will probably not ever go away for me… She is like a sister to me and I know I can talk to her about anything, but I’m not sure how to approach these conversations.

A:

Kayla: I think feeling awkward about talking about money and finances is normal and shouldn’t be a reason not to do it. Even if it’s uncomfortable, I think it’s good you and your friend are talking about these things. I’m pretty open, honest, and direct with my friends about money in a way that’s not always normalized but is usually met well and in good faith. For example, when I invite people to a group dinner for something like a birthday or other celebration, I will sometimes side-text friends who I know are in tight money situations to make it clear I don’t want them to miss out on the event just for money reasons, sometimes offering to cover for them or let them pay me back way later etc. I also always emphasize to my friends who don’t drink that I won’t just split the bill evenly and will make sure to account for the fact that they didn’t drink since that often makes a big difference $$$ wise. Now, how do I know which friends are in tight money situations? Because we talk about it! With only a couple of exceptions, most of the people in my life are pretty open and honest about money, and I’ve definitely made it clear in my friendships that I’m not uncomfortable with this. If your friend is like a sister to you, then I think you guys can navigate talking about these things too, even if there’s discomfort at first and even if you don’t know exactly what you want (like being treated vs paying yourself). These things can and should ebb and flow. I treat friends when I can, but I can’t all the time. I have friends who treat me when they can, too. It’s reciprocal in an abstract and ever-changing way —it’s not tit for tat.

Summer: Well, it’s great that you don’t want to exploit your friendship for material gain. But let’s explore those feelings of discord in the friendship.

For one, if your friendship can come to a well-discussed agreement about how something can work for you… that’s nobody else’s business. Society might prescribe rules about ‘treating’ each other or ‘contributing’. But those rules are only useful when they’re protecting people against exploitation and pain. If they start contributing to the pain, it’s time to break the rules.

You’re both feeling uncomfortable because you’re in a situation where something you both want to address runs counter to societal (and internal) expectations. You’ll have to discuss it and mutually decide whether you want to cleave to the expectations or form a plan that works for you.

From what I can see, your friend has expressed a willingness to ‘treat’ you, but have hesitation. Likewise, you would like that too, but have hesitation. It sounds to me like you’d both be quite satisfied if the financial obligations here were tilted a little more toward your friend in order to satisfy both of you. There’s a basis here for consensus, but there’s still hesitation present. That needs to be discussed with your friend.

Ideally, you’ll both come to an agreement that is agreeable and less stressful for both. I believe that monetary contributions in a friendship should be proportional to people’s earnings, not an absolute figure. That way everybody contributes an amount that is equally meaningful for them. And nobody feels completely left out or untouched. Come to think of it, I believe the same should be true of tax systems…

It’s wonderful that you have a friendship where you can discuss this. And it should be on the table for discussion. You can talk to her about anything, and I think the way to approach this topic is exactly as you would normally. Do you normally have meaningful conversations on a couch? Over lunch? Via text? Do that. Do what’s already established in the relationship. Preface the conversation by saying you want to talk about something, and not all of your thoughts are coherent yet. But it’s an important conversation to you. And have it. See where it goes.

Nico: You mention you and your friend come from different backgrounds, money/class-wise, so I just want to also call attention to that when it comes to talking about money. If you’re from a working class background (hello, fellow traveler), then you might find that you’ve really internalized some ideas around not taking “charity,” around just swallowing it when things are tough, or other feelings or values that make you feel gross about talking to your wealthier friend about money.

That said, you and your friend talk about everything and she’s already brought this up. Why not start having more frank discussions about money across the board? It might be freeing if you can both voice things that people usually keep to themselves (or as Kayla put it, have non-normative discussions) within the bubble of your friendship. Income-adjusted spending on shared activities with friends is something that I do informally in my life, and is something that is probably pretty common among friends who know they have different income levels.

You obviously aren’t trying to take advantage of her, but say, if she wants you to join her in a pricier activity and offers to pay a portion of your costs so it’s affordable for you, that’s something that I think is perfectly okay; because she’s saying that money is more plentiful for her, she values your time and your friendship, and she’s seeing you and your situation through a realistic lens. It’s also great to have those conversations with friends where you can both voice that you’re feeling super, awfully awkward and then you talk about it anyway. It sounds like you’ve stuck together for a long time, she’s like a sister to you, and that you know the strength of your friendship can carry you through a little awkwardness to what will probably be some relief on the other side. As for jealousy — with your friend, definitely throw every healthy coping strategy you can manage at that one. Jealousy can hurt a friendship in serious ways. But as for the source of your jealousy? It’s very real that we are all living in an extremely tough socio-economic situation and that people all around us are increasingly facing financial stress, so, in that way, your feelings are valid, and it’s okay to feel upset or stressed out by money. Thank you for writing in and take care!

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