You might imagine that dating a new woman will be a lot like starring in your very own girl-on-girl romantic comedy: you’ll be asked out in some quirky yet perfect way, your date will clearly express interest in you and be a master of seduction, and when you finally have sex, it will be like the 4th of July in your pants and Christmas in your heart (or Hanukkah, whatevs). Well, WAKE UP, DAYDREAM BELIEVER.
Maybe you’re thinking, “But wait! Who could be better at seduction than a woman? Women are basically the main reason that date night and Valentine’s Day were invented in the first place!” Well as it turns out, apparently everyone is better than lesbians.
I think we all have our own lesbian dating horror stories that we like to tell our friends as a warning of things to come. Like the time a girl’s ex showed up and wanted career advice, or when you realized the girl you were dating was emotionally unavailable because she was having an affair with her married friend. Whoops!
The thing is, it doesn’t have to be this way. If we could just collectively raise the bar a little and invest as much in the art of dating as we do in the art of Facebooking, maybe lesbian courtship could be a brave new world. But this isn’t Russia circa 1917. The revolution won’t come overnight, so let’s start small with some of the main DOs and DONTs.
DON’T Overshare
For the love of getting laid, stop telling dates about your exes! In particular, don’t use your exes as some kind of weird parable for what you actually want from someone. Just say it. If you want someone who can articulate their feelings like a big girl, just tell your date that. Don’t tell them some long, awkward story about how your ex was emotionally constipated and couldn’t say “I love you.” Save that shit for your therapist or your bartender. Nothing puts a girl’s libido on pause like an overshare.
DON’T be cheap
Because you’re a lesbian, there’s an automatic assumption that you’re cheap. Fight the power. And while there are certain women who’ll need to change panties when you pay for the $300 dinner, for most women it’s the thought that counts. After all, a picnic in the park can be even sexier than maxing out your credit card at Momofuku. Lay down the cash where it matters most: pay for her cab home (in the morning), bring a great bottle of wine, or buy her a small gift.
DON’T have bad boundaries
There are oh so many ways that lesbians can have bad boundaries, but right here I want to focus on one: DO NOT bring a date to a girl bar or a girl party. Your date does not need to meet your ex, or all your friends, the first few times you go out. I know it’s hard, but resist the urge to merge for at least a month. Putting someone in a potentially socially awkward situation from the get-go is zero sexy.
+
Now that we’ve pinpointed some of the biggest lesbian dating DON’Ts, let’s talk about the DO’s. I’m going to skip over the obvious stuff, such as showering beforehand and not texting during the meal (although with some dates I’ve been on, these things weren’t as apparent as one might think/hope).
Pre-Date:
DO ask her out directly
Don’t say “we should hang out.” If you want to ask someone out, ask them out. Don’t allude to some hypothetical situation in which you could share airspace with them. Ask them to do a specific activity at a specific time and place. Preferably an activity that is reflective of something most people enjoy (i.e good food) or something that they have mentioned enjoying in conversation.
DO have something to talk about
Ideally something that doesn’t pertain to being a lesbian, girl parties, the people you know in common or your ex girlfriend. This means, as part of your preparation for the date, you may want to read a book, the newspaper, or cultivate a hobby.
DO put some creativity and thought into the date
Think of your date as your canvas; it’s going to say a lot about you. Are you creative enough to do some Googling to find an interesting restaurant followed by an out-of-the-box activity? I know it’s easy to say “let’s get a drink after dinner,” because there are a million bars and nothing creates fake intimacy like booze, but try to think of something else.
Go Time:
DO bring something cute
Victorians used to call it a love token, lesbians should call it flowers, wine or something you saw that made you think of her.
DO ask her about herself
When she answers, ask follow-up questions that indicate your intent listening and the fact that you have a base line IQ that enables you to respond in an intelligent manner. If you know what she likes, consider learning a little more about it ahead of time and hint that you did so. Now she’ll know that you did extra work so you would have a better context for her love of vintage camera-collecting. Even if it’s not your passion, it won’t kill you to learn something new.
Wrap-Up:
DO text her or call her after the date to tell her you had a good time.
Doing this doesn’t mean that you’re too available or that you want to marry her. It’s simply a polite way to indicate to someone that you enjoy their company.
DO keep it secret, keep it safe.
Obvs you’re going to talk to your besties about it, but try to refrain from buying an ad on Facebook. The greater lesbian community does not need to know who you are dating or what you did on your date.
Now that we’ve covered the basics, the idea is RINSE AND REPEAT. With each stage of dating you build in a little more, assuming you like her and aren’t planning on trying to direct her into the friend zone (that’s a whole separate article). And remember, even after you’ve “got her,” you have to keep her. Maintain the momentum that got you here, otherwise it’s like dating blue balls….and no one wants that.
Comments
Excellent timing on this one. It’s been a long time for you and me, courtship…
“Don’t allude to some hypothetical situation in which you could share airspace with them.”
Well said.
Indeed. That’s one of my biggest problems. Makes for lots of new friends though… :/
OH man. I’m printing this out. I just got out of a three year relationship and was wondering how all this works…Thanks, Sarah:)
ditto
well do u show her that u love her though and what do u tok about with her though like wht if u bth blank out and have nthing to say though what do u do and where do u take her as the first date though actually?????
Lesbians are assumed to be cheap? Huh. But I thought Real Lesbians™ buy chandeliers and strippers.
I liked the bit about oversharing. “for the love of getting laid” – excellent.
what about tweeting in a protected twitter account – or writing posts like this one when you’re in a long distance relationship but you don’t actually mention that you’re in one and instead deflect attention away from yourself by getting other people to dish on their expensive booty calls:
http://gracethespot.com/?p=793
what do you do when you were born with the inability to shut up? advice pleez.
Grace, talk to your friends about it until they want to vomit, but do not blog about it. Just think about the ramifications of that if she follows you on tumblr/twitter/whatever and you don’t know it and then she sees it? If I read a girl’s blog who I went on one date with and she had written a huge post about me and the date, I would likely be like “heh, it was really really nice meeting you………….” Do you know what I mean? Just annoy the shit out of your friends, but don’t put it on the internet. Wait till it’s been going well for at least 2 weeks to a month before you start blogging.
Lololol Grace, then by goodness do NOT stop talking because someone like me will come along and feel awesome that she’s not alone while simultaneously finding you attractive and adorable! ;)
The qualities I’m looking for in a girl are the same qualities I’m building stronger within myself: honesty, playfulness, and being the real you as often as humanly possible in all situations because life is literally too damn short and everyone deserves to be loved in their most natural state (despite their run-on sentences).
I’m a firm believer that because I find this state most attractive in a woman, other women may very well feel the same way, and thus my greatest chance of finding my next partner and also my greatest chance of appearing most attractive to women, is a cliché answer: quite literally to be myself. Do whatever you think and feel is best no matter what anyone says, all that matters is your opinion at the end of the day :) It feels like life and dating are supposed to be more complicated than that, but it really has become my unwavering answer to most everything now. I hope my ranting did something for you lol if not thanks for your post!
yeahhhh sarah4! especially “Doing this doesn’t mean that you’re too available or that you want to marry her. It’s simply a polite way to indicate to someone that you enjoy their company.” being nice to a girl doesn’t mean you’re crazyinlovetoosoon, it’s just being nice. more girls need to learn this.
someone help me with my inability to do small talk. i tend to be quiet or SUPER INTENSE,
GOD I HATE DATING I JUST WANT SOMEONE TO FINGER BLAST AND FEED ME COOKIES.
I’m game as long as I can eat some of the cookies, too. If not, DEAL BREAKER.
ok but if its an oatmeal raisin then you’re going to have to wrestle me for it, naked preferably
If that isn’t already an automatic part of your dating strategy then I’ve spotted what you’re doing wrong.
you’re right. i should just tackle girls with a tray of cookies in tow
And when you’re elbow-deep in a pretty girl you can be like “Thank you Cassandra!!”
Or maybe you should wait til after, cause that could be awkward.
FTW. Is it possible to die from laughing?
hi can you email back me. im willing to give my cookies to you.
i feel you.
and well said.
I can’t even begin to explain how much I agree with this. The looming threat of a short bout of boring small talk followed by pained, awkward silence is the exact reason I am terrified to date.
But why would it be boring? You like her, she likes you, you’ll find something to talk about, it’ll be GREAT.
If all else fails just ask questions so she can talk about herself, people love that. You’ll get to the end of the evening and she’ll be like “You’re a great conversationalist.” p.s. in this scenario it’s 1953
I find small talk inherently boring. This may be because the bulk of the small talk I am forced to engage in occurs at networking events where I have to emit loud, fake guffaws as responses to jokes that have clearly been re-told since, well, 1953 or so. I am fine with asking questions, but I find that it often doesn’t lead to a lasting conversation but just one-sentence responses followed by that dreaded awkward silence.
Thing is, just like e, I get intense about conversations and like to dig deep. A lot of people don’t like that, obvs. The tray of cookies idea might be feasible, however.
Personally, I think the best thing is to find something to discuss that isn’t distinctly personal, like dating history or traumatic childhoods, but that she is emotionally engaged in, like a book, a movie, politics, ethical or philosophical dilemmas, something that gives you insight to her thoughts, feelings and point of view without being invading or over-shearing. Share some opinions, and she’ll give you hers. Even if you don’t really find the topic interesting, watching people talk like they care is the best thing ever.
Small talk baffles me, I never know what to say or how to keep the conversation going so you don’t have those painful, awkward silences.
It might help if I wasn’t a shy introverted loner with a serious amount of anxiety when it comes to being social.
I can relate, I’m quiet & terrible at small talk. I find that a good way to compensate is to put all of my energy into appearing chilled & attentive. I just think that when people are at ease they feel a lot less awkward about being the one who has to dominate the conversation, you know? You still have to give them something back, even if it’s just a good ear and some good vibes.
Anyway that’s not going to work for everyone, but it mostly does for me.
That’s pretty much what I try and do, be relaxed and friendly and attentive. And smirk, I smirk a lot.
when you do that crystal, it makes me a lot more comfortable when i stare at your boobs, so thank you.
i want to “like” this. there needs to be a “like” button.
You should follow the trail of cookie pieces I just made…
to my vagina.
….if only this could be printed on t-shirts and worn on every date I ever go on. Wait! Lightbulb.
I’m not good at small talk either. Re-read the article, I did. Its really common sense and having respect for your date. I just have trouble getting my mouth to say what my mind and heart want to say.
Ideally something that doesn’t pertain to being a lesbian, girl parties, the people you know in common or your ex girlfriend. This means, as part of your preparation for the date, you may want to read a book, the newspaper, or cultivate a hobby.
It seems like such a simple concept, so why does no one know it? Thank you for saying it! I have written the word “lesbian” so many times by Friday afternoon that I just don’t even want to hear it out loud ALL WEEKEND. Yes, we’re lesbians. That’s why we’re on this date together. Let’s talk about Harry Potter.
that’s a fine point.
yeah, if she doesn’t like harry potter it’s over.
Omg yes I agree 100%. I mean really, how could that even be possible? What’s not to love about harry potter? Nothing, that’s what.
LOVE this comment.
This is genius.
Nicely done. Relationships and dating are an art. I think people assume they are born knowing what to do and they just aren’t. Also, boundaries are sexy.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
I definitely brought my current girlfriend to my friend’s party on our first date.
In my defense, we’d successfully completed the activity we set out to do and neither of us wanted the night to end but I was too chicken to bring her home just yet.
I’m the exception to the rule though, refraining from merging is really solid good advice.
Gandalf giving lesbian dating advice? Made my day!
omg i was wondering if i was the only person who noticed the “keep it secret, keep it safe” thing.
I thought the same thing.
I am a big fan of these drawings! (& the advice)
Fantastic! I think I may have broken most of these when my wife & I were dating! Fortunately, she married me anyway. Lol. I will definitely pass this along to my unmarried lesbian friends:)
I’m actively dating women and this is like a refreshing beverage on a hot summer day. It’s SUPER stressful but I’m glad I’m think on the same wave length! Thank you Sarah!
I think a dedicated dating column would be a great addition to autostraddle! I nominate Sarah H for this! I really enjoyed reading this, but it was a tough reminder for what I now have ahead of me :( at least this will get me off to a good start! thanks Sarah!
I completely agree. And if you haven’t checked out the dating advice over at http://everyoneisgay.com/, you definitely should. It’s one of my top priorities in my Google Reader every day, haha.
Damn, why haven’t I heard of this site before? Thanks! Good stuff.
No problem! It’s pretty much amazing.
I’ve never heard of it either. Love it!
Yeayyahh I’m glad a lot of us seem to be on the same page with this. It’s like a little bright shiny piece of Ok Cupid hope.
Why did you have to bring up okcupid…!? Ugh.
as a friend of mine once said, “OkCupid, we can’t be friends anymore. The kind of people you introduce me to is just not okay. Not at all. I’m sorry. No, wait, no I’m not.”
I pretty much tend to have sex with women and then go on a first date with them, if we can get out of bed long enough. So I should maybe stop doing that first.
Yeah, I thought that was how it worked, too. I’ll never forget waking up next to my (now) ex, and then her saying to me (quite adorably, actually) “Hey – you wanna go on a date with me some time?” I think we eventually got around to our “first date” about 7 or 8 days later after we finally pulled ourselves off each other.
I have actually been on maybe two dates ever, because mostly we just start having sex and then keep going.
this is the only way i know how to date. Sex first, questions later.
Thank you for nomination Sara. I like it. Also for those of you who don’t know about the hilarity that is ok Cupid quick match you need to get on that. It’s one of my go-to methods for making myself laugh after a bad day.
you look sexy bab
This is so great!!! (Only problem is… I’m moving to NYC where I know absolutely no one, thus I have no one to date. Maybe learning how to be less of an awkward human/meeting people in general should be in order first?)
Yeah, a couple months ago I moved to a place where I know no one and it can be super awkward to try and meet people in general.
There’s about 8 million people in NYC, you’ll definitely meet people and the awkwardness of it all will slowly (or quickly) peel away. And that’s just out of survival
Be optimistic and approach it all in a positive light
Maybe awkwardness will be part of my charm. ;)
Thanks for the encouragement; I’m very hopeful.
The way forward here could be to join a lesbo sports team…it’s how half of the mo’s I know in NYC found each other. That and craigslist casual encounters. Whoops.
you can probably date the remaining components of autostraddle there
I just got on a dating site and met someone.
hmmm i seem to have moved from “lets see each other” to “lets be friends” :( so now how to i get out of that stage and back to the lets see each other?? I blame the kids. I have 1 girl and she has 2 girls and we seem to get stuck doing a lot of “friend” type of stuff. last week we took the kids swimming.. not much for being able to make that romantic. “hey kids lets make a sand castle so me and mommy can have some alone time in it”
I’m wondering why the cartoon says “Let’s be in the same place…” and not “LEZ be in the same place…”
or is that a no-no? :|
my mistake!
MOAR DOODLES.
thanks for this autostraddle. i just got out of a serious relationship, and you guys always brighten my day somehow! i’ll have to use all these sweet skills! ;-)
That’s why we are here to work out broken relationship..
I’m like the worst date ever and this advice helps out more than I should overshare. And the doodles are super neato.
“followed by an out-of-the-box activity” clever words Sarah! Love it, well said!
i’m thinking i should give this “dating” thing a try. I’ve always just been the type to fall into lust and merge after a week of sex and a few trips to ihop and the pet store.
time to bake some cookies, research some local events, and wait for a cute girl to ask me if I like cheese.
Right?
do you like cheese?
You know these rules apply to all humans and not just lesbians, right?
– Don’t overshare
– Don’t be cheap
– Don’t have bad boundaries
– Ask her out directly
– Have something to talk about
– Be creative
– Bring something cute
– Ask her about herself
– Call or text afterwards to say you enjoyed the date
– Don’t tell the world what you got up to
I know as a straight male I’m not exactly your target market but I’m pretty sure all of these points are valid if you’re asking out a straight woman too. Maybe that’s just me pursuing That Straight Agenda™ though. ;)
omg how did you find us?
He sensed that somewhere in the universe not everything was about him 100% of the time and came to remedy that, apparently.
Uh, little harsh? A bisexual friend showed it to me. I’m just saying that these criteria shouldn’t be considered lesbian-exclusive. Is a girl asking a guy out supposed to do the opposite? :)
Totally agree, Gav. I think that’s kind of the point though.
A lot of lesbians / bisexual / whatevercantaccomodateeverybody women who are new to the idea of dating other women can freak out a little over “not knowing what to do” but in reality the “rules” of dating women and not looking crazy is essentially the same as dating men and not looking crazy.
It’s just comforting to get that same advice from other women who have been in the same situation and lived to tell the tale :)
thats right im 11 and a lesbian but i know what to do with my girlfriend no sex absoultely
points for the straight agenda trademark symbol
1. I loved the Harry Potter comment. I agree you can’t date em if they hate HP!
2. Advice was pretty damn good. It just sucks when you live in a city in the middle of the country & everyone knows everybody. Not enough Lesbians where I live damnnn.
Ha. What we really need is a lesbian version of the movie Hitch, with Will Smith. Has anybody seen it…no…anyone? /sigh. Well, it’s really good. But this article reminded me so so so much of that…haha. Should have read this before going out on some dates… Try asking her out to the movies (at least I did that right: a set time and date and purpose) and getting the train times wrong, and winding up in a very boring town about an hour before the movie was supposed to start…so we went to Dairy Queen, because I’m just a winner like that. Oh and the movie? How To Train Your Dragon… no, I’m not twelve.
Dates like that tend to be more fun. Well, as long as you’re both clicking. :P How to Train Your Dragon is an adorable movie, anyway.
Is it ok to be cheap if you are both cheap at heart anyway ???
How about a dumpster diving date..
No Thanks to Harry Potter.
I think ‘cheap’ is relative to your earnings, etc imo.
after a 300 dollar dinner… Your my wife!
One thing that helped me a lot with small talk is being told “ask open-ended questions” is only part of the phrase. It’s actually, “Ask open-ended questions you’re actually interested in knowing the answers to and then stay out of your head long enough to listen to the response”. (This also applies to answers. Give answers expansive enough to help move the conversation along.)
So no asking “Did you survive snowpocalypse?” Instead, “What did you do to survive snowpocalypse?”
Assume she says, “I was trapped for three days so I polished off my last bottle of jenever” (the best gin EVER). You have to listen. It matters if she says it dispiritedly, so you can respond, “Bad luck. How did you get it originally?” and hopefully you’ll get a nice little story about a trip to Amsterdam (or at least LikkerWorld). If she says it happily, then you can ask how she spent her time home alone with a jenever buzz. (Reading, listening to music, cleaning the house naked-it’ll give you something else to talk about.)
If, instead, she gets bothered and explains that her co-housing didn’t get a turn to use the only truck fitted with a snow plow until three days in so she was stuck and Mary forgot to buy the lentils when it was her turn to shop last month so they couldn’t even make a decent chili, well, the conversational possibilities are endless. What you ask depends on what you’re interested in. What does she think is essential to a decent chili? How are responsibilities shared at her co-housing? How does she think factions will line up at the inevitable all-house meeting to discuss the legume/snow plow challenge?
After having crushed on my first girlfriend for a couple of months- and having her crush on me with us both being totally oblivious- we finally just got all the awkwardness over in one night with the help of a few drinks, and got together. We jumped straight in and there was never official dates, or..working to like each other, trying to find things to talk about..
That said, we’re over, and I’m completely mortified by the awkward first few dates, getting-to-know a girl thing.
Sigh. Am i alone in this?
Awesome advice!
I think I forgot how to flirt.
I need to be more out there…
I like that this has come up again. I currently need this advice to properly court the girl I hooked up with last weekend.
Haha I like the “when you finally have sex” thing…UM ALREADY DID THAT NOW WHAT.
Is anyone else bad at waiting to have sex? The last couple of girls I’ve met I’ve exchanged a few messages with on Okcupid (don’t judge me, it’s Northern Indiana, there is no gay scene), started texting, met IRL, and then had sex within a couple days. Seriously.
It’s like “you like me, I like you, on the first date we made out in your car, so logically the next step is fucking.” BUT MAYBE IT SHOULDN’T BE. I DON’T KNOW.
I’m bad at waiting to have sex, so you’re not alone. I don’t know if it’s necessary to wait though. Unless one/both of you really isn’t/aren’t ready.
Me three. I don’t wait for sex if I can help it haha.
Awesome article! Really helped!
God, I love autostraddle. I am going to give this a slow read later when I have more time….
You said “love of vintage camera-collecting”, my heart went all a flutter, if someone took the time to research MY love of vintage cameras I’d be so freaking happy. Awesome article.
I’m guilty of a lot of these oops. I decided to take your advice and I broke the cardinal sin of texting twice in a row so ask her out more directly.
…
I’m holding autostraddle responsible for the outcome. :P
*so=to
In the small talk bit one thing I’ve done is to go to a video store. Just plainly ask her. “Hey, let’s go to the rental place and see what movies we have in common?” followed with maybe. “We can get some popcorn and maybe go for a walk.” It’s a great way to see if you have the same tastes and commenting about the movies you can get to know her, joke around at the expense of the movies and not each other stuff like that. You can even use that to segway her into you asking her if she’d like to go see something new.
This was awesome! Love the humor… great job! Thanks and looking forward to my date tomorrow!
So glad I found this article. This was just what I needed.
Excellent work done… I like this post too much.
all stuff is important for relationship.
Aweseome article. Really needful.
I totally enjoyed this…As a late bloomer I will use some of this advice
Usually when I’ve been brenda-ing a girl and it’s going well, I mention that either I’m Buddhist or that I do art with people mental health issues and this promptly is the last I’ll here from the lady. These are good things that I’m very proud of, why is it so off-putting??!
Thank you so much for posting this! I’m new to the “dating” scene on the whole “courting a woman front” and this helped. :’)
All of this sounds like a female’s guide to dating a female, not a new lesbian’s guide to dating. Straight males could probably follow the same steps and properly date a straight woman.
And I felt like shooting myself at the word “obvs.” Who uses that besides 15 year olds?
Indeed! Words to live by!
I’m absolutely cringing right now. I have been guilty of too many of these things. Ahh, I over share and ramble when I’m nervous!
I haven’t dated anyone in three years. I have been single all that time to and I still am. Thanks for the tips.
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NATHALIE ESTRADA
Can I join u
Love this article!! So cute with the infographics too. I am newly out as a lesbian with little to no experience seriously dating women, but feel overwhelmed with options in a city with a large queer population and don’t know the ins and outs yet😨😅Would like to avoid the typical mistakes so ty ty 💓.
I like u can we date
I went some to joint but i don’t get som