Will Our Kids Have a Better Life in the Suburbs Than In Brooklyn?

Q

Since having our second kid, living in brooklyn has become so expensive and cramped, but we have so many friends here, I love the access to arts and culture and everything city life brings. My wife wants to move either to where my parents live or where her parents live (both are suburbs in the midwest) so we can have childcare help, cos all our parents are retired. also she wants to buy a house that is big enough for them to have separate bedrooms, in a neighborhood where kids play on the street.

I understand this financially because we don’t have much savings at this point due to COL, but it breaks my heart to think about taking our kids away from all this culture and from all of our friends, and their friends, to places I’m frankly not wild about, that will have less queer people than Brooklyn, which is so queer-normative. But maybe I’m just holding onto my youth. Thoughts on leaving the city for the suburbs?

A:

Valerie: Is there a way you could compromise, if you’re not willing to move to the midwest? Move to a suburb just outside the city, close enough for easy day trips and visiting friends, but not as expensive or close quarters as Brooklyn? I know that wouldn’t bring you closer to your parents, but it might check the rest of your boxes. I’ve lived in NYC for the past 15+ years and I can’t imagine moving too far away from it. I know the temptation of moving close to free childcare is real, and having your kids be able to spend more time with their grandparents, but if YOU are going to be miserable there, that won’t be good for you, your relationship, or the kids. There has to be a better solution where you can all be happy.

Summer: Thinking about uprooting is never easy. I know you don’t want to leave the queer arts and culture scene in Brooklyn. It’s reasonable to feel that. But how does the financial stress and childcare stress weigh against the quality-of-life for you and your family? Your kids won’t be permanently exposed to arts and culture while they’re in Brooklyn. Especially in their earliest years. But they will be exposed to their parents’ financial and interpersonal stress the whole time. And the cramped space is equally permanent. Brooklyn arts and culture is something that only starts paying off for your children in the long-to-lifetime run. Improved childcare, space, and less stressed parents are relevant every single day of their lives.

That’s not to exclude the possibility that you’ll be more stressed if you move away. Moving is one of the most stressful activities people regularly undertake. And it’s always a compromise between a fixed reality and a potential future. This decision is too big for me to call for either side. But I think it’d be helpful to consider what a successful move could do for your family’s collective well-being, not just what you’re losing by leaving Brooklyn.

Ashni: As a Brooklyn resident, I gotta say, I’m firmly on your side. I love living in Brooklyn. Everyone is gay when I walk down the street! Yesterday, I saw an ad looking for polycules to be interviewed for a documentary. But the high cost of living is real, and it’s only getting worse (fingers crossed Mamdani can help us). I really think y’all should weigh the things you’d gain from moving to the Midwest ‘burbs (free childcare, lower cost of living) against the things you’d lose (the Brooklyn Public Library, Prospect Park, The Lesbian Herstory Archives, art galleries, and most importantly, the community that you’ve built). To Valerie’s point, is there a way that you can have most of the things you’re looking for? There are pockets of the Hudson Valley and North Jersey that are fairly accessible by train, that would give you access to all the things in the city that you care about, but where you might be able to find a home with a little more room. Also, the Hudson Valley is gay and artsy as hell. I feel like it’s every other city dyke’s dream to buy a fixer-upper upstate. If you’d rather stay a city resident, there must be pockets of other boroughs where you could find slightly more room for what you’re paying? I don’t see a way out of the free childcare, unfortunately, but I do know that some gyms offer free childcare for like, an hour or two, and maybe being out of the city will give you cheaper childcare options.

Sa’iyda: As a fellow parent (and a native New Yorker), I get both sides of this dilemma! It’s very hard to want to leave NYC for all of the reasons you mentioned. It’s a great place culturally to raise a kid and be a queer family. But holy shit is it expensive! I left NYC in 2017 because it was getting wildly out of my price range (granted I moved to LA, but I digress.) There are so many times I miss New York, but the main reason? Access to free childcare.

Being a parent is very expensive! I don’t know how old your kids are, but I know daycare is extremely expensive and eats up most families’ budgets. And babysitters are also incredibly expensive. So even a date night will cost you hundreds of dollars for a few hours of fun. It’s really upsetting.

I don’t know where in the Midwest your families live, but pretty much every major city has culture. Tours of Broadway shows go almost everywhere nowadays, and will be much cheaper than seeing the show in NYC with the same caliber of talent. There are museums and botanical gardens and zoos and historical sites all over. And there are queer parents everywhere too. They may take a little more time to find, but I promise they’re there. I think if moving will improve the quality of life for your kids (and access to their grandparents if you have good relationships with your parents is definitely a bonus), you should seriously consider it. Also, did I mention how expensive childcare is?

Nico: I know you’re thinking of your parents as support, but what about the support — emotional and otherwise — that you receive from your friends, that and all the other benefits of being near your queer buds. As others have pointed out, you need to deeply consider whether a move to the midwest will affect your happiness and well-being such that it affects not just you, but your kids, your partnership, everything. There’s more to life than a bigger house, and plenty of people were raised sharing bedrooms and turned out no more or less fine than those who had their own.

And you’re right that you’re currently in a queer-normative spot, and even moving a little further outside of the city would still keep you within a pretty queer-friendly radius. It’s not going to be that way in the midwest, so something I think you should also really consider is what life would be like for your kids growing up with queer parents in a more conservative area with fewer fellow queer people and queer parents around. Is there a chance that they won’t feel as comfortable or as welcome? How does that measure up against “playing in the street”? You don’t say how old your kids are, but, another thing to consider is whether any of your kids are queer or trans or might be. If you think that might be the case, to be honest, with the disparity in access to care and services — and the downright persecution of parents of queer/trans kids in some areas — it might be better to stay put in New York State.

With all this, there are schools to consider, too. Your or your wife’s parents could live in an amazing school district — I don’t have access to this info — but it might also be a school district where, like all schools in Iowa for example, teachers aren’t allowed to teach “divisive concepts.” In New York, you’ve got access to magnet schools, charter schools, a whole bunch of options to explore when it comes to educating your kids. I know it’s not an easy decision to make, and that childcare is super expensive, but there are more benefits to living where you are than just the culture and the general queerness — it’s also safety, and education, and considering what supports will and won’t be there for you and your family in the future, depending on where you live. And on the other hand, you have free childcare to consider, possibly a bigger living space, things like that. It’s a lot to process, but I hope presenting some of these things gives you some aspects to consider and research as you two discuss your options.

Riese: It’s hard to generalize about the midwest because it’s such a mixed bag — I grew up in a midwestern college town (Ann Arbor, Michigan) that is as homogeneously liberal as New York City, and there are plenty more towns like it (Columbus! Madison! Urbana! Bloomington! Iowa City!). Most midwestern cities big enough to have suburbs are liberal areas, from Des Moines to Chicago. There will be culture and there will be queer people. But of course, not as many queer people as there are in Brooklyn, and there won’t be as many of the same types of queers you’ll find in someplace like NYC.BUT you will find a lot of transplants like yourself. I have friends who moved to a liberal part of Alabama to be closer to family for childcare help, and they did eventually find queer friends and community, and are very happy there. On the flipside, in the classic Netflix series The Hunting Wives, Sophie moved to rural Texas and then got all mixed up with murder and mayhem.

Butttt you did say you’re “not wild about” either of the places where you have family, which makes me feel like you should stay in Brooklyn or find a place near where your families live that you *are* wild about. Even being a few hours away could enable you to have some help with childcare without being in an area where you can’t find community or schools that reflect your values.

My Partner Has Financial Know-How, and I Have Financial Trauma

Q

My partner (we’re both in our late 20s) is always talking about things like retirement plans and CDs (not the music kind, it turns out!!!!!) and other financial shit that she seemingly knows a lot about and thinks I should know a lot about, but I don’t! My financial knowledge is not great. My parents were often in debt when I was growing up, and I have a lot of trauma around talking about money in the ways my partner talks about it, especially because I have sort of just always gone through life assuming retirement funds were for people who are not me. I’m responsible. I pay my bills. But I’ve mostly lived paycheck to paycheck in a way my partner doesn’t understand. We’ve been together about four years now and I can see us getting married, at which point I suppose our finances will be more entangled so I do want to make sure I’m not dragging her down with me, but are there actually accessible ways to learn about these things? Every time I ask my partner questions I feel like she’s judging me and it just turns into an argument usually.

A

Summer: Hey OP. Listen, if you’ve been together for that long and things are still moving forward, you’re not a burden. No relationship has truly identical financial backgrounds and experience unless like what, they’re identical twins? Ew.

I’d normally write stuff about how you can approach the topic with her to pick up more financial literacy, or how to learn from other resources but… What does concern me is that discussing it with her leads to an argument. It’s never a good sign if a relationship can’t achieve consensus on finances. Managing resources and labour (financially) are as critical to a relationship’s future as any other aspect. It quite literally gives you food, shelter, and health.

And while there are good ways to learn about financial management as a late bloomer, that won’t address how unfair it is for you to feel belittled when the topic comes up with your girlfriend. You can address the financial side of this situation, but I fear that it’s not sustainable or good for you to always cater to her when she treats you that way.

Ashni: Yes, there are accessible ways to learn about these things! You might be living paycheck to paycheck now, but it’s entirely possible that you won’t be forever, and building financial knowledge now will help you longer-term. I read Ramit Sethi’s “I Will Teach You To Be Rich” last year which I don’t … want to recommend because I remember parts of it rubbed me the wrong way, but it was a really accessible way to learn more about finances. If you’re not already on the credit card train / building your credit, that’s another thing to look into if you can. Summer’s Reddit recs are great, I’ve leaned on r/PersonalFinance myself. I do agree, though, that your partner judging you for questions and having conversations turn into arguments when you’re just trying to learn more is… not great.

Em: Money is a charged subject, but I feel like the social stigma around talking about it is one of the biggest structural forces that keeps money unequally distributed in our society. You’re fighting the good fight by taking this on, opening up and having the conversation!! There is no shame in having different levels of financial literacy, the world and the system is literally set up to have it that way. The fact you are pre-empting that it might be a knowledge gap that could cause friction for you and your partner, is super thoughtful and smart from my point of view. Practicality and pragmatic thought like this is its own kind of romance!

Already seems like you are getting more comfortable being vulnerable and engaging with that money-panic from your past experiences – have you opened up to your partner about this? Perhaps if you give her the context she will be better equipped to reassure you and to intentionally create a judgement-free space as you share knowledge and make financial plans together. In partnership it’s a constant exchange of strengths and weaknesses, and so it’s ok to be supported and be the one “learning” in this domain. I’m sure there are other areas where you bring expertise and pull ahead.

Nico: Why is it becoming an argument when you aren’t very financially entangled, yet? I think that your partner needs to be able to engage with you about things you don’t know as much about with a kind and understanding approach. You have said yourself that you have different backgrounds. As someone who comes from a family where we were often strapped (and my dad has described our circumstances in my early years as “dirt poor”), it is so incredibly jarring to deal with people who have always had a much greater sense of stability. I want to push back at the thought in your mind that you’re “dragging her down” with you. You said that you pay your bills. You’ve managed in the ways you know how. Not everyone has a retirement plan. You can get one when you’re able, but not everyone has the opportunity until later in life, and some people never have the opportunity at all. Honestly, it’s a bad system and no one should need to fear for survival in their old age, but here we are. You are not bad or wrong for working hard your whole life and only being able to just live paycheck to paycheck. Most people are in this situation. Your partner should not be making you feel bad about any of this, and I think that is a conversation in and of itself.

Now, with what you’re talking about, I think your first project is simply some more financial literacy. This should not cost you a thing if you make use of a library or other free source for books. Here is a list on Reddit of financial resources to get your started. Once you know more about the jargon involved, it’s going to be so much easier to make informed and confident choices. Move steadily, but at your own pace. And if your partner can’t discuss finances with you reasonably and calmly, I want to encourage you to consider that a marriage is also a financial arrangement, and that many relationships can suffer from financial disagreements. I suggest that if you are determined to make things work and these problems continue, that you seek couples counseling. Wishing you tons of luck on your journey towards knowing more! (About made up things!)

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