Photo of Eva Victor by Arturo Holmes/Getty Images
Writer/comedian Eva Victor is now a filmmaker. After years of creating humorous Twitter sketches and original content for Comedy Central, they have now made the significant leap to the big screen with Sorry, Baby, their remarkable writing/directing debut. Upon its premiere at Sundance earlier this year, the film was a resounding success, receiving a standing ovation and being bought by A24..
The movie follows Agnes (Victor) over a span of a few years as she contends with her PTSD after being sexually assaulted. At non-chronological snapshots in her life, Agnes encounters various scenarios that present obstacles as she progresses on her path to recovery. She receives genuine comfort from her dear next-door neighbor Gavin (Lucas Hedges) and her long-time best friend Lydie (Naomi Ackie) who visits her at her home in Massachusetts.
Prior to the film’s release, I hopped on a Zoom call with Victor, in which we chatted about tackling trauma, shadowing Jane Schoenbrun, and exploring Agnes’ gender euphoria during a significant courthouse scene.
Rendy: This is the first movie I’ve seen to portray how trauma is non-linear and you do it in a way that’s fluent and cohesive. What influenced you to organize the movie non-chronologically?
Eva: This doesn’t track exactly but Certain Women was a movie that structurally kind of blew my mind. I like the fact that it’s these three stories and these three chapters, and they do interweave a little. But the point of them isn’t that they interweave, they just happen to, ’cause it’s this small town. That kind of just broke my brain about like the amount of interiority we get in that film despite it being shared by three people. It was astounding to me. The thing I really wanted the film to have within it is Agnes is on this journey and there’s these reminders of what’s happened that only she can see.
And then as we watch the film, we become aware of what those reminders are as well. We’re a part of the experience of the past bringing itself to the present. So structurally I wanted to make a film that supported the idea that love and friendship are at the core of it by starting with this kind of love affair weekend with Lydie. And then moving to the past after, hopefully, these are people we now care about. And also that Agnes is like this full person who, yes, went through this thing, but we learn about her beforehand so that we can’t really dismiss what happened to her later ’cause we care about her enough. So structurally kind of just trying to get everyone into joy and into this relationship so that when we go back to harder stuff the audience is held through that.
Rendy: I remember you telling me you shadowed Jane Schoenbrun on I Saw the TV Glow and I see so much of that exemplified in the scenes of Agnes in the house.
Eva: Right, the horror moments.
Rendy: The horror, yeah.
Eva: I got my horror lesson. Yes!
Rendy: Tell me about that experience and utilizing those lessons into the story.
Eva: Well, Jane is such an inspiration in a million ways. As a filmmaker particularly. They are so sure of what they want. The only word that really comes to mind is like “visionary.” Both in the emotional sense but also the literal sense. They have a complete vision of what they want and they will shoot until they get it, and they will not rest until they get it. I also think they’re an incredible advocate for their film, and they they spend all of their energy making sure that the film will not be compromised and will be what they want it to be, because they know that’s the best thing for the film. It’s a very inspiring energy to be around. Especially at that time when I was feeling pretty fraudulent about directing and they’re sort of like the balm to fraudulence.
They are like, “No, you’re a filmmaker. You’re making a movie.” It’s pretty special to be seen as a filmmaker before you’ve done that, especially by someone so legendary and smart. I learned so much. They also instilled in me this idea that I thought you weren’t allowed to think that the image can be beautiful for beauty’s sake, and that matters a lot to me. They are very interested in beautiful images. I think that was really exciting to me because the joy of making a film is making the shot exactly how you want it to be. There’s euphoria in that. They taught me that’s something you’re allowed to walk towards and not shy away from.
Rendy: There are so many incredible scenes that I’ve thought about since seeing the film. But one in particular is the courthouse scene and Agnes marking their own gender identity in the bubble form. Was that based on your experience? What brought you to highlighting Agnes’ gender euphoria like that?
Eva: It’s very funny who decides to not know or to forget what happens. There are people that are pretty interested in it being a woman’s story, which is like, I get. But also this character, seriously, writes down for you what their experience of gender is. It’s interesting. I like when people bring it up to me ’cause I’m like, yeah, that’s like a huge moment in the film and some people do choose to ignore it. So thank you for bringing it up.
I think the best way I can describe what’s happening in her life at that time is that we’re kind of thrust into the world and told there are all these rules. Rules like there are boys and there are girls. Your body is your body. That’s yours. Just a million fucking things that we learn as like how the world works. With this kind of traumatic experience— I’ll speak for Agnes. Agnes has a realization that those rules are completely made up. And the body that she thought was hers to hold and the rule to it was betrayed. So it kind of calls into question every rule we’ve learned. I think her relationship to returning to her body is one that forces her to confront what part of this she is doing because it was a learned rule and what part of this is true. And I think in that moment she has a quiet moment of reckoning with the fact that, well, this form has two bubbles. The rules that exist here are made up. So I’m going to show you what my actual experience in my body feels like. And I think it’s an honest moment. And I think what gets her in trouble in the jury scene is her desire to try to be honest amidst not really having the words for it. But that moment means a lot to me. I think it’s interesting too. I understand why people like to speak about Agnes and Lydie’s friendship as female friendship but I think it is more complicated than that and the film is more trans than people want it to be. So we’ll see.
Rendy: You were the one who had to anchor the tone through every aspect of development, production, acting, directing, and in post. How did you manage to strike that balance? Making sure that this was your vision and how you were telling this story?
Eva: I feel very grateful that Barry [Jenkins], Adele [Romanski], Mark [Ceryak], and Catalina [Rojter] who produced the film as well were very good at asking me questions to clarify what I wanted and did a good job at not putting an answer onto me. And in moments it forced me to create, and to consider something I’d never thought about. But I do think I got to make the film I wanted to make. Especially a film like this, I can see a world where the making of the film being out of my control would be deeply painful. The fact that I did feel really listened to and had a ton of creative liberty in making the film is a hugely important piece of why this film matters to me.
I honestly think the cool thing about making a movie is that, yeah, you’re alone with it for a bit, but you get to hire geniuses to be around you to support you in making the film. And then it’s no longer your film. It’s a group film. Someone has their reasons for doing it that you might never know, but you can feel it. You can feel it when people wanna be there. It came from me and now I think it does belong to all the filmmakers who made it. I invented this for myself today where I am looking forward to the release of the film because I am ready to release the film and to just send it off and wave it goodbye and sort of watch it sail around and be proud of it from afar.
Sorry, Baby is now in theatres.
