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Bisexuality Open Thread: I Took The Road Best Straddled

riese

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I don't have to make a choice
I like girls and I like boys.

-Peaches

Some days the line i walk
turns out to be straight
other days the line tends to deviate
i've got no criteria for sex or race
i just want to hear your voice
i just want to see your face

-Ani DiFranco

So have you heard? About the dawning of a new hetero-flexible generation? Perhaps you have heard about The Bisexuals, perhaps on this very website. Perhaps you saw a television show during sweeps, or read things on the internet sometimes. It's true, there are approx a billion bisexuals in the world now, yet many feel regularly dismissed, disregarded, ignored and disrespected.

Well, you'll be happy to know that in 2008, new research found that bisexuality is not a transitional phase among women:

"Bisexuality in women appears to be a distinctive sexual orientation and not an experimental or transitional stage that some women adopt “on their way” to lesbianism, according to new research published by the American Psychological Association. The study of 79 non-heterosexual women over 10 years found that bisexual women maintained a stable pattern of attraction to both sexes. In addition, the research appears to have debunked the stereotype that bisexual women are uninterested in or unable to commit to long-term monogamous relationships."

BISEXUAL REVOLUTION PREMIERED AT OUTFEST THIS SUMMER

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A 2007 Cornell University study, which sampled more than 20,000 individuals in 80 communities across the U.S., found 14.4% of females surveyed were either lesbian or bisexual. In September 2005, the National Center for Health Statistics' newest comprehensive study revealed that 14% of women between 18-29 have had at least once homosexual experience. Ten percent of women reported same-sex attraction, reflecting a three-percent jump from the Center's 1992 study. Go back over a decade to a 1999 Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality study attributed 18-20% of it's female subjects as having "been sexually intimate with someone of the same sex." These numbers, of course, are dependent on what women will admit to doing or feeling, but compulsory heterosexuality is increasingly against the norm.

THESE PEOPLE ARE BISEXUAL, DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER

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In 2006, I was doing preliminary research for a non-fiction book project that aimed to make some sort of statement about this new generation of bisexual women. The book's thesis was, roughly, that this time around, it's gonna be different than it was with the first wave of so-called "bisexual chic," which swept the nation in the mid-90's. As much as we'd like to say it's always been just about the heart and not the anatomy, and as politically correct and queer-friendly as it is to say so, let's get real -- people choose life partners based on a lot of factors that have nothing to do with the heart, like what your family wants and how much money a person makes. This time, with changing expectations in society, I predicted that more and more bisexual women would feel that they truly had the option to "follow the heart, not the anatomy." As stigma and homophobia breaks down and women's rights advance, bisexual women will be more and more visible in queer communities and will be open about their identity and proud.

'ANYTHING THAT MOVES' IS A BISEXUAL MAGAZINE THAT USED TO EXIST

++

So, in the fall of 2006, I conducted a sort of highly unscientific, absurdly misspelled and statstically ignorant, yet massive, "survey" on the internet. Over 3,000 self-identified bisexuals filled out at least part of the survey and about 500 did the whole thing (it was lengthy). I spelled "marriage" wrong twice and used "it's" instead of "its."

806 respondents indicated where they identified on The Kinsey Scale":

(1) - 7% - Heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
(2) - 30% - Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
(3) - 32% - Equally homosexual and heterosexual.
(4) 19% -  Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
(5) 11% -  Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual.
(6) 3% -  Homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual.

Other interesting findings [ETA: At 4pm on Saturday I added more statistics and clarified some of these statements due to the fact that some commenters were, much to my surprise honestly, reacting strongly/negatively to what I thought were not only encouraging results, but also, as aforementioned, irrelevant results as this study was not statistically sound or conducted by a professional body. Late adds are all in italics.]

+ 47% of respondents had been in serious relationships with both men and women and 35% with men only.

+ Regarding sexual experiences, 22% reported past hookups with bisexual women, 18% with gay women, 14% with straight women and 3% with transgendered persons. 53% said the majority of their sexual experiences had been with straight men.

+ 43% believe that sexual orientation is more fluid for a woman than for a man and 35% are unsure.

+ 20% said their current choice of partner was affected by laws against gay marriage.

+ 19% agreed to some degree with the statement "I'd prefer to be with a man to avoid homophobia and discrimination," including 1.8% who strongly agreed. 74.4% of respondents disagreed, including 47.3% reporting that they strongly disagreed.

+ 59% of respondents disagreed with the statement "My family doesn't care if I am with a man or a woman; they just want me to be happy."

+ 59% agreed with the statement "lesbians don't want to date bisexuals" and 11.4% agreed with the statement "men don't want to date bisexual girls."

A lot of the stereotypes about bisexuals stem from the incidental fact that most homosexuals identify as bisexual before coming out as 100% Fo'sho Homo for Reals, therefore boosting the rate of those who know a homo who used to identify as bi.

HAY WE'RE BISEXUAL WEIRDO

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55% agreed to some degree with the statement "I feel ostracized from both the straight and the lesbian worlds for my bisexuality." It brings up an interesting paradox -- many sense that straight culture and gay culture are distinctly different entities. Do you feel like you have to navigate between worlds, or that you have no choice, or that it's all integrated where you're from? What do you love/hate about being bisexual? What about that word? Bisexuality reinforces the idea of a gender binary and we're kinda over that whole thang. Queer feels more inclusive (especially of transpeople) but the word doesn't inspire universal affection? Do you have a bisexual girlfriend who you think is gonna cheat on you because she's bisexual? Because if so bitch I will cut you.

GIVE US ALL THE GORY BISEXUAL DETAILS!

260 responses to “Bisexuality Open Thread: I Took The Road Best Straddled”

  1. TSwizzle

    I’m only here for the sandwich.

    Thumb up 1
    1. Anne Weaver Hart

      Me too, but for the toaster.

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  2. Barbara

    + 20% said their current choice of partner was affected by laws against gay marriage.
    + 19% said they’d prefer a long-term relationship with a man to avoid homophobia and discrimination.

    *shoots self*

    More seriously, I totally believe that bisexuals can be as faithful / committed to long-term relationships as all the others, BUT the above fact demonstrates that a bisexual who is in a stable relationship with another woman has got to either like women more than men, or for some reason must have had less chances with men than with women.

    Because with a 50-50 chance / orientation, you are spared by all the homophobic troubles by ending up / settling down with a man.

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    1. Brit

      Those results don’t demonstrate that…at all. Only that percentage of the respondents indicated that discrimination affected their choice of partner; therefore, the conclusions you just drew could not be applied to 100 percent of the sample.

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      1. Barbara

        You are right that those results do not demonstrate that ALL bisexual women think like that; BUT 1. Riese said the survey was not statistically sound and 2. I suspect there’s a HUGE amount of women for whom that reasoning is simply unconscious who wouldn’t show even in a statistically sound survey.

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        1. Brit

          Okay okay, I am going to go with a different approach because I feel like I am going to start veering toward an argument about scientific approach in forming a hypothesis.

          So basically, my girlfriend’s family is very conservative, and they would very likely disown her if she told them that she was in a relationship with another girl. Most of her friends and coworkers don’t know either. Her making a commitment to me is most definitely not taking the easy path. She is also bisexual. Now, if I said that she chose to be with me instead of a man because ultimately she really just likes women better I would essentially undermining her identity. That is something that I would never do, especially since I dislike very much when people say, “But you were married!” when I tell them that I am a homosexual.

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          1. Barbara

            Ok, but I guess, unless she falls in love with a man and decides to stay with you nonetheless, the argument still sort of stands. And even if the above happened, we would still need to know how frequently something like this does happen.

            My first thought was “lucky you!”

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          2. J-Elizabeth

            So, I’m bisexual, and I’m with a girl, and I love her regardless of laws regarding marriage (especially since our roots are both in Iowa, so her meth-head father and all 13 of my catholic cousins can get wedding invitations, hooray). And I feel really not-discriminated against 99% of the time. She tells me I deserve to be with a guy ocaisionally and I sort of verbally bitch-slap her. If she was a guy then I would be with a guy. End of story.

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            1. Dina

              Exactly this.

              I’m pretty much 50-50 bisexual (with allowances made for hot transgendered people on both sides). My chosen life partner is the pretty lady sitting at the computer next to me. There have been many places where this is a complete and utter pain in the ass, but really, I wouldn’t have it any other way. She’s worth it.

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            2. Rose

              I remember how when I was in the process of coming out, there was one guy who spent a lot more time in my thoughts that any girl, and I thought that meant I “leaned straight.” It was really just that I was more into him than anyone, and it would be the same if he were female. When I factored him out of the equation, I realized I liked men and women pretty much equally.

              Thanks for realizing that choosing ONE guy or girl doesn’t mean that you’re “choosing” to be more heterosexual or more lesbian. Even my own parents don’t understand this! They seem to think that if I “end up” with a guy, that means I’m straight, and if I “end up” with a girl, that means I’m gay. (They also seem to consider the former way more likely, for some reason. Ugh.)

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            3. alice

              THIS. I identify as a bi femme, but something I have been struggling with is that I am in love with a man. Other than the man I’m with, I see men as cute, but nothing really more than that. Maybe it’s b/c my heart is already taken by a man? I am also hugely sexually, and emotionally attracted to women as well. I like men, but am more attracted to women sexually. I’m prolly not helping this any…

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          3. mandydandy

            i have that “but you where married??” shit to deal with too.. i try not to bring it up but it def confuses ppl.. so what if i got married.. big mistake on my part.. who would have thought i would have finally came out that i was gay while married (poor guy)..
            anyways i should have backed down from that court wedding 5 min beforehand when i freaked out and called my best friend and was like “omg i will never be with a chick again!” Theres your sign right! anyways i define as gay now.. but i guess the plus side of being married is i have the most amazing daughter because of it :)

            ok back to the bi talk.. well i feel a little hypocritical to say that bi girls make me nervous since that is what i defined myself as in highschool, but i think its because of past relationships.. i was seeing this bi chick who left me for a guy and told me that she couldnt be with me because i couldnt give her a kid.. I mean WTF there ARE other ways.. but whatever it hurt alot.. still hurts but ever since i havnt felt the same about bi’s..

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            1. shasha

              Bisexuals can switch to take social advantages – kids, avoid social stigma as per situation, fulfill physical and emotional needs in varying circumstances.

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    2. fcallit

      Uhm, does love figure in your equation at all? It’s understandable to want to avoid homophobia, but feeling that way and then falling in love with a woman doesn’t mean you can’t get a man/or are more attracted to women.

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      1. Barbara

        No, but it means that if you happen to be / have been / fall / have fallen in love with BOTH a man and a woman, your choice is predictable.

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  3. bfc

    + 19% said they’d prefer a long-term relationship with a man to avoid homophobia and discrimination.

    The above finding is what’s causing all the problems. It’s that 19/20% or so that leave, cheat, change their minds, constantly look for something “better” (aka man) who perpetuate the stereotypes and feelings so many lesbians have toward bisexuals.

    I had a bi girl who for a whole year kept saying she’d almost, ALMOST want to be with me. but wanted to wait a while first in case a man came into her life because she couldn’t stand the rejection from her family and very straight friends. This girl published a poem about me in a lit mag, and would run half way across the room whenever I showed up. Yet her “societal” need for a man managed to trump every bit of passion and capacity for love inside her. Because of her and her ilk (the 19%), the next time a bi girl approaches me I will kindly wave bye-bye.

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    1. Brianna

      Soooo… these bi girls that you are rejecting. Could you send them my way? Thanks.

      Anyway, I bet at least 20% of all lesbians are assholes too, but are you going to stop dating them based on this? Just saying.

      Sorry about your ex.

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      1. Jacka

        20% of everyone .. Think about ALL The crap things humanity does to the world, everything & everyone else in it, I don’t think it’s just cos these girls are bi, it jus human nature … It’s really unfair to say that bi people are less faithful or non committed to long term relationships..
        Surprise surprise I’m a dorty bi sexual- not completly out but gettin ther, it’s just Hard explain to everyone that no I do not want to hump everything that moves! I also once told a boy I was seeing that I was bisexual, he looked at me in horror and exclaimed ” u have a dick!!?!! ” I may also need to add I live in Ireland and joe public ain’t so educated when it comes to sexuality& that relationship ended that night! Lol

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      2. Emily

        What this all really comes down to is that there are a lot of assholes / messed up people out there. And they are assholes/messed up for a wide variety of reasons.

        Their sexual orientation may have triggered some of those external problems, but I don’t think it increases or decreases the overall chances someone has of being a jerk.

        If someone cheats on you, they’re a cheater – gay, straight, or bi. That doesn’t mean all [sexual orientation] people are cheaters, though. It just means that one person was an asshole.

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    2. Barbara

      I don’t think those women cheat and change their minds constantly; on the contrary, they sort of rationally decide to be faithful to a man (gender doesn’t matter as they’re bisexual) rather than to a woman. It’s rational because it spares them of all the homophobic trouble.

      On the percentage, as I said above – even if it were statistically significant – it doesn’t take into account the number of women for whom that thinking is unconscious (who are convinced that they just like men more, of one single man more, without blaming this on societal / political factors).

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    3. fcallit

      If a survey was done in a pool of straight women, I’m sure a large percentage would say that they’d rather date a financially secure/rich man. And while there will be women who’ll always be on the look out for a richer/more successful man while in a relationship, that doesn’t mean all those women do that even if someone succesful had been one of their check boxes. Same goes in this case. Sorry about that girl, but not every one of that 19% is like that.

      In fact, I think the question was posed misleadingly. If the question were “would you leave a female partner for a man to avoid homosexuality” I don’t think it’d be 19%

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      1. JanisBing

        I agree with you, the question is somewhat misleading. As a bisexual, of course I’d rather avoid homophobia whenever I can. You don’t expose yourself to hatred and violence just for funsies, you do it when you don’t have a choice (like when you’re in love with someone…).

        Now, there’s no way in Hell I’d walk away from someone I love just because a few morons out there think our relationship is wrong.

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        1. Barbara

          But what if you love two people? What if you “equally” like two people of different gender? Btw those few morons out there go from a substantial part of society to all of it depending on where you live (not to mention countries where it’s illegal, etc).

          I’m not saying it’s not possible – just that is difficult and unlikely.

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          1. Other Corey

            Hello, 5 on the Kinsey Scale here! Which technically makes me bisexual, but it doesn’t feel like it most of the time…

            Anyway, Miss Barbara-
            What if you love two people who are both girls? What if you love two people who are both men? What do people ever do when they are forced to choose? Some bisexuals may indeed choose the man, just like some people will choose the man/woman with their family approves of, or who their friends like better. Some may decide to go with neither, as it is unfair to them to make them wait for you to make up your mind (me). There are many different reasons to choose someone, and it feels a bit unfair to hold all bisexuals accountable for what some do. We’re all not fickle man-hunters out to abuse lesbians, just like not all feminists are crazed harpy man-haters and all gay men are not lovably swishy and fashionable. We’re people.

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            1. Barbara

              Listen, I’m really sorry for all the nice bisexuals out there but when you go to the airport you are forced to long queues of boring gate controls just because once in a rare while there’s one or two guys who try to blow up planes. Is this fair? No, but that’s how it works. It’s hard to imagine an alternative solution. That’s what you get for being a bisexual and / or a frequent flyer.

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            2. Other Corey

              I severely doubt I can change your mind, especially if you already have a negative experience in the area. One last thing, though- people cheat, and people hurt other people, just like people try to blow up planes. It may be easier to say ‘I just won’t date bisexuals’ or ‘We’ll detain all the Muslims’ in order to feel safer, but what does it get you in the end? Nothing. You can be cheated on by a lesbian just as easily (does the thought that it’d definitely be with a woman make it any better?). Either screen everyone and trust they’ll do what they promise to do, or don’t allow anyone to embark. Vilifying one specific group doesn’t make you smart, or less likely to get hurt, or a better person. It just makes you prejudiced. Sometimes, if you want to have a satisfying, fun, sexually charged plane ride, you have take a risk that security will slip up and it’ll explode.

              That was a really meandering and sleep-deprived metaphor. Hopefully it made sense anyway? D:

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            3. extermikate

              I’m not even bisexual but wow, I find it hella offensive that you’re using a terrorism metaphor to defend your views.

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            4. soteria

              What’s really bizarre to me about this is that EVERY straight woman I know has had a relationship in which her partner has cheated on her. And yet none of those women (seriously) turn that into a generalization about men. None of them say, “well, since a guy cheated on me, all men are cheaters and I won’t date men anymore.” Furthermore, if a woman made that generalization about her partner’s skin color or ethnicity instead of gender or sexual orientation, no one would hesitate to call her a bigot. It can be very convenient to scapegoat entire groups of people, but that doesn’t make it any more rational.

              In relationships, people cheat (period). Why precisely do some lesbians perceive being cheated on by a bisexual partner as a greater betrayal than being cheated on by a lesbian partner (or by a man in heterosexual relationships)? Here’s a thought: this isn’t actually about a tendency in bisexual women to cheat. It’s about a dated us-vs-them mentality regarding sexual orientation. A bisexual woman offends not when she should happen to choose a man over a woman; she offends by NOT choosing to be a lesbian to begin with. From this point of view her betrayal predates the actual relationship. If you are with someone who thinks that way, that’s a really uncomfortable situation to navigate.

              I met a woman online on a personals website who clearly stated in her profile that she didn’t want to date bisexual women. I identified myself as bisexual in my profile and yet she pursued me. We went on a date and seemed to have fun, although it was obvious that she was very guarded. Humorously and sadly, she admitted it was kind of disturbing to her that I look like Julianne Moore who she had just seen in The Kids are All Right. We played cat and mouse for about a month setting follow-up dates which she would then cancel. Based on this experience, I guess I could conclude that lesbian women don’t treat bisexual women as individuals, or very respectfully, but that wouldn’t be very rational of me, now would it?

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            5. Dina

              Dina’s Corollary to Godwin’s Law: In the current sociopolitical climate, terrorists are the new Nazis.

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            6. Barbara

              “is the thought that I’d be cheated on with a woman any better?”

              YES much better to be honest. To me, being cheated on with a man is like competing for a job and seeing the job taken by the director’s nephew. Who was maybe a complete moron and was much less prepared, but just because he was born in that family, he got the job. It’s similar if a woman cheats on you with a guy “just because” he was born a guy. I think there’s also some feminism behind this, I mean the anger that society is not treating you like you deserve, and is discriminating on you just because of something you were born with. Maybe that’s another metaphor some will find offensive, I don’t know.

              Another reason lesbians get angry at bisexuals cheating on them, I think, is because there are a lot more men going after women than women going after women. If you only like women, that puts you in a weaker position than someone who likes both. So it’s like “ok, good for you, now you’re with a man, but so you’ve put in a position where it’s much harder for me to find another woman (than it was for you to find a man)”.

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            7. Lindsey P

              You got cheated on. Sorry ’bout cha. Put your big girl pants on and don’t take it out on an already marginalized group of women.

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            8. Rose

              Your metaphor is offensive, and it seems like you could really learn a lot from reading more about what actual bisexuals have to say rather than jumping to conclusions about us based on whatever experiences you may have. You can start here:

              http://fuckyeahbisexuals.tumblr.com/post/608723798/what-does-biphobia-look-like

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    4. gg

      This is unfortunately a common scenario. This has happened to many lesbians and has happened to me. Pretty much the minute a woman tells me she has a boyfriend but still likes me, or outright states she is bisexual I have been gone. That being said, if a woman tells me she has been with a lot of men in the past(as I have) but now is totally into women, and doesn’t miss dick at all then I’m board.

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      1. Dina

        See, the “I have a boyfriend” thing makes sense, because I’d have the same response to “I have a girlfriend.” (I mean, unless it’s all above the board and everyone’s cool with it, of course.)

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        1. Tiara the Merch Girl

          Well sure, if you’re talking monogamy/polyamoury, but from what I’ve experienced the sheer idea of you having had male partners, and are open to the possibility of any future partner being male, apparently makes you some weird form of tainted.

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          1. Dina

            Very true.

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    5. GingerGal20

      I feel the need (as a bisexual woman) to comment on this but don’t really know how to respond…
      Personally I would way rather be with a woman but I still have feelings toward men occasionally. No matter who I am attracted to I am comfortable enough in my own skin that I wouldn’t let the opinion of anyone else determine my happiness.
      By writing off bisexuals completely, you are in a way doing the same thing that this girl did. It isn’t about anyone other than the two people who decide to be in a relationship. I understand that it is hard when you are not out yet but you see my point?

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    6. Dina

      Sounds to me like the better response would be to stop dating insecure buttwipes, which sounds like it describes this individual you were involved with. Yes, she happened to be bisexual, but it was the insecure buttwipe behavior that you had a problem with.

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      1. GingerGal20

        yes :) thats what i was getting at

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  4. Maddy

    I was in a gay bar last night and this random guy who we started talking to tried to tell me and my best friend (who is bi) tthat there’s no such thing as bisexuality and that people just need to make up their minds. we wanted to hit him. a lot.

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    1. Dina

      I had a BOSS do this to me once.

      I was with my girlfriend at the time, so she just assumed that I was a lesbian and would share her gay hairdresser’s inexplicable hatred for bisexuals. She was COMPLETELY WRONG.

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    2. Ashley

      my mom’s a lesbian and basically told me that she thought bisexuals were just greedy and that i needed to make up my mind and pick one or the other. i wanted to hit her SO MANY times in the face, but i couldn’t really hit my mom, so i just verbally bitch-slapped her instead. i’d never really thought that i’d come across someone who would think that way before, but now i’m super paranoid about getting shut down just because i refuse to “pick one”.

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  5. uhmina

    this is refreshing after that whole “promiscuity” post. phew.

    idk if anyone’s read this post, but it argues
    “REALITY: 80% of self-identified bisexuals are only interested in one gender.”
    it’s very interesting although i believe that the conclusion is only valid within the world of online dating and not reality.!?

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-biggest-lies-in-online-dating/

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    1. soteria

      Where “interested in one gender” = only messages/replies to messages from one gender.

      A lot of bi women have no problem meeting men “in real life” but find it harder to connect with other queer women. My roommate is bi but only uses her okcupid profile to meet other women. I’ve also seem bi men who state specifically that they are only looking for men (or women) online.

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    2. Dina

      …I kind of want to punch OK Cupid now.

      I mean, such a representative sample, amirite? *sigh*

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    3. Rose

      That’s really simplistic. I mean, at the moment I am only looking on okcupid for “girls who like girls,” but that does not mean I have no interest in men. It’s because I only recently came out as bi and so, AT THE MOMENT, I’m more interested in dating women. I still find men attractive, though, I just don’t really want to be in a relationship with one right now.

      Also, I know a lot of bisexuals – male and female – who only list themselves as looking for the same sex for a certain time simply because they’re irritated at how the site seems to find them way more opposite-sex partners than same-sex ones.

      But in terms of just raw numbers of bisexuals whose profiles I’ve looked at, way more than not are looking for “guys and girls” than just guys or just girls. I’m not sure where they’re getting their numbers.

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  6. Court Charles

    I like both. Alone. Together. Therefore, I am bi. I have had several relationships over the years alone the same lines. There was less jealousy, frankly, than in most monogamous relationships I have had. I don’t advocate it for everyone. Obviously, it can be more complicated when all of you are having a bad day at the same time. I should note, I have never been interested in a relationship with two men, only another woman and a man; one of each. Best of all worlds. I almost feel like I should apologize.

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    1. Dina

      I don’t think so! I don’t think we should have to apologize for our well-functioning, consensual relationships. :)

      I’m glad you’ve found something that works for you!

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  7. wasteunit

    Bisexuals are awful, awful hermit crabs just waiting for a better shell to crawl into. And not only are you crabs, but you probably have crabs. You should be ashamed and hate yourself.

    (for anyone that has a hard time with sarcasm over the internetz, I’m totes JKing you guys)

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    1. KZ

      You have now filled my mind with images of cute little hermit crabs scuttling around, holding hands er claws.

      It is very cute.

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      1. wasteunit

        I wanna hold your claw.

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      2. heather hogan

        And you have filled MY mind with images of cute little CLAMS scuttling around, holding hands.

        http://www.etsy.com/listing/25825918/happy-as-a-clam-greeting-card

        (In Danielle Corsetto’s “Girls With Slingshots,” Hazel gives that card to her BFF Jamie when Jamie finally comes clean about being bisexual and in a relationship with a girl. It’s kind of adorable.)

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        1. Emily

          What is it with women and shellfish analogies?

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  8. mon

    to me the word ‘bisexual’ definitely reinforces the gender binary, but it doesn’t make it invalid, just a rather specific definition of hetero-flexibility or queerness. therefore not an all-compassing label though it sometimes seems like one!

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    1. taylor

      omg i haven’t heard ‘heteroflexible’ or ‘homoflexible’ since college. i still kind of love those terms. like, homoflex…how cute is that?!

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    2. Rose

      I don’t agree that bisexual is necessarily synonymous with “hetero-flexible,” because the latter term assumes that one is mostly heterosexual but open to doing stuff with the same sex.

      Whereas, a lot of bisexuals feel as though their attraction to both sexes is pretty 50/50, or they lean toward the same-sex.

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  9. Hmmm

    Another bi thread? Really?

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    1. wasteunit

      Yeah, bisexuals can’t have just one thread. Greedy bastards.

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      1. molly

        hahaaha hahaha +1

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      2. Emily

        Just be glad we’re not talking polyamory. There would be a whole damn quilt, then.

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      3. Rachel

        wasteunit i just read this now and wanted to hug you with my legs

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    2. Ziggy Hreins

      Oh yes it´s the bi agenda. They are going to take over ALL THE THINGS. YOU SHOULD START STOCKPILING DUCK TAPE AND SPAM NOW!!!

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      1. nine

        i have to clean ALL THE THINGS?

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  10. heather hogan

    According to the survey of my own personal feelings, responsibility for 55 percent of biphobic prejudice falls directly at the feet of television writers. If you’re a total nerd and into totally nerdy narrative deconstruction, this is an enlightening/infuriating read: Bisexuality TV Tropes.

    (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BisexualityTropes)

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    1. Fiona

      Upon reading this I just had to add the following:

      http://www.xkcd.com/609/

      Because this IS where my evening is going now. If I were as into being bisexual as I’m into TV Topes, I would be a perfect example of bisexual greed. (Yay TV Tropes!)

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    2. Brietta

      YES. THIS WEBSITE. LOVE.

      Before I even clicked on the link I was like, alright, how much space are they devoting to Torchwood? HALF THE SPACE. Apparently Torchwood will tell you everything you will ever need to know about bisexuality. (I.E. all aliens swing all ways.)

      “Have I Mentioned I’m Heterosexual Today?” is still one of my faves.

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    3. taylor

      i’m so glad i will now remember to read tvtropes! i think this last issue of Wired mentioned it and it sounds SO INTERESTING

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  11. Am3lya

    * Just try not to cheat on me with a dude while I go get you a sandwich.*
    what if I cheat with a girl? will that be alright then? how ridiculous, and i’m not even bisexual..

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    1. Hmmm

      ^Humorless lesbian alert.

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  12. BiFemLounge.Com » Bisexuality: Why are we so questioned, and where are all the bi men? – Creative Loafing Tampa (blog)

    [...] bisexuality, but article after article disappoints or annoys me, at least at first glance. …Bisexuality Open Thread: I Took The Road Best StraddledAutostraddle [...]

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  13. Shannon Fargel

    i’ve been a kinsey 3 for as long as i can remember, and I don’t feel ostracised by either community. i feel the opposite, because i am part of both.

    As far as terminology goes, queer is less problematic, but i think also less socially acceptable.
    i can’t believe people would choose not to love someone because of homophobia and gay marriage laws! Why on erath would you ignore your feeligns for someone out of fear of an outdated system and ignorant assholes? Ugh.

    Oh, and Am3lya, i think she was kidding. I hate it too, when people seriously say that kind of thing, but based on the ‘because if so bitch i will cut you’ line, i’m pretty sure she was kdding.

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    1. Dina

      I agree with the terminology point. I find that I use queer within the LGBTQ community but not in the straight community because people look at me weird if I say I’m queer.

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  14. J-Elizabeth

    Just found out last night that my GF cheated on me with a dude, and I see this when I wake up…

    In other news, I’m bisexual, and I had a time where I wasn’t attracted to women at all, except one. I was straight + 1 in my mind, but my friends/peers were really stressed out about me not subscribing to a “real” sexuality and it was increasingly hard for them to not label me SOMETHING. I discussed this with a friend and she took to inventing a label, and she went around telling everyone I was (my gf’s name)-sexual. which in an uncensored form had a ring to it.

    What surprised me, was in the remarkably gay-friendly community made up by a high school of performing arts ( it’s exactly like fame, only gay-er) they felt so much pressure to put me in a box and “bisexual” just became a convenient throwaway term.

    Now that I’m older i’ve actually swung the otherway and am fully bisexual, with a stronger tendency toward women than men, I honestly do feel like both communities accept me better now, which is sort of sad I think. I didn’t expect not being labelled to scare every one so much. I had very few friends who decided “to hell with labels, you’re you and that’s that”, they were out that, but they were fare and few between, and deffinitely fewer than I expected.

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  15. Alice

    Pre-college I identified as bisexual, but that was during the heyday of the ’90s bi-craze, so obviously I was just being trendy. Then I went to college and,you know, learned stuff. Now personally, I’m a big fan of using the term queer, but I know for most folk w/o the background it’s just another word for homogay. (like my parents, bless their hearts) Queer for me just sort of playfully states “I’m game!” and problematizes the whole binary (or ternary).

    I think there are a lot of rewards and punishments in society that can push someone toward heteronormativity. But there are also pressures from the LGBT community. I think bi guys actually might have it a little harder on this one (heh heh). At least the bi ladies have some representation during sweeps(albeit horrid stereotypical representation) An example: My former roommate was a guy who people would often read as gay, but he identified as queer and for the first two years I knew him he dated women. He has since started dating guys more regularly and all of our friends (gay or allies) are like “phew, thank god DUDE has finally come out of the closet” and I’m like whaaaa? do we not respect this guy enough for him to be able to tell us honestly and truly his sexual identity/orientation (or lack thereof)??

    This was particular sensitive for me because I’m like, wait, do you guys think this about me too? ‘Cause I’m one of those people who on the street folks are like “oh hey look at that dude…wait no that’s a big dyke.” Lemme just say that when I go out I get more sirs than ma’ams, even at the gay coffee shop. So point is: I’m a pretty masculine person that everyone assumes is a lesbian. I used to correct people, but as I get older I’m just like, eh, it’s easier to let people put me in their little gay boxes (heh heh) and go on with my life. I think people will always be second guessing folk because we can’t actually get in people’s heads so we use this really crude measurements of people’s (theoretically) stable sexual identity that is tied to their gender presentation and whatever sexual conduct information we can gather. Both sides do it, we just have different norms for presentation.

    (ASIDE: Now that I think about it, if you said to me, quick! think of a bisexual I would imagine folks that conformed to the norms of their gender, but dated outside those norms. Damn you TV sweeps week representations/imagery! Get out of my head!)

    So I guess what I’m trying to say is society is still in this fucked up homophobic state where some people still have trouble finding room for their same sex attraction and can succumb to heteronormativity, but because of the embattled position of the gay community (re homophobic society) they can fiercely police boundaries and push people into the gay box.

    My hope is that after gays and lesbians are fully granted civil rights, eliminating one’s partner’s gender as a criteria for full citizenship the binary will be dealt a serious (not sexy) blow.

    ok, so clearly I have a lot of feelings about this (and apparently a lot of words too).

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  16. Clara Morgan

    My thoughts as a bi-lesbian are more like can’t I just like one gender? just one. It would be less complicated. I know I prefer sex with women. I know that is certain, but I totally have man crushes. And I don’t know what to do with them. And it’s totally not fair to act on them for the guys. It’s like come on brain/heart pick a direction and just go with it.

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    1. Court Charles

      I disagree. In a solid relationship, why would you NOT act on your man feelings. There are guys I know who have had no problem accepting who and what I am _ and never believing they were going to, or wanted to, “convert” me, or “save” me. In fact, in honest discussion, these guys not only didn’t feel threatened, they admitted it turned them on that I was attracted to and involved with other women. We aren’t talking about “types” here, we are talking about people. Real people. They aren’t cookie-cutter productions. They have different levels of intensity, of acceptance, tolerance. I happen to be happily “bi.” That means I have slept with, and will continue to sleep with, and have had, and will continue to have, relationships with BOTH women and men. I like them for different reasons. And, honestly, after my first threesome with another girl and a guy, I decided I REALLY liked that, too. Color me slut, if you want. But I am a happy one.

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      1. Dina

        And if a dude is in it to try and change you? You can kick that shit straight to the curb with great force! ;)

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    2. Emily

      Bi-lesbian. Bibian. Biebians!

      Full circle.

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  17. Sam

    I feel out of place in both communities at certain times. Either because I’m too gay or not gay enough. Then you have to listen to people like the commenters above making generalizations about bisexuals – how we would choose a man over a woman. I also listen to a lot of people who say bisexuality doesn’t exist. Mostly I’m happy with myself but people can be very uncomfortable with me, like I’m some kind of sexuality monster because I’m not gay and I’m not straight. I wish I was some kind of sexuality monster! It’d probably get me more play

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    1. J-Elizabeth

      The following is an actual conversation I once had with a teacher who just sort of said weird things at lunchtime:

      Mr. H: They should just make an island just for gay peaople… we could like give them Hawaii or something…

      Me: Bad idea, Mr. H, first, there are too many of us, we would need Australia, maybe all of africa, and then I would be descriminated against beacause i just wasn’t “gay enough” just like I’m not straight enough here.

      You have to admit, it’s pretty likely.

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  18. Fiona

    I’m bisexual, but for a long time up until recently I wonderd if I was hiding fom myself by saying that, and I was actually gay. I wish that I could say I was gay because saying, “I’m gay,” is so much easier than saying, “Well I’m bisexual and right now I’m going into a phase of liking men a lot more but last month girls were my preference; I’m not a 50/50 person,” and explaining my thoughts and feelings about sexuality to any stranger that inquires, which is what I feel compelled to do.
    But I’m young and actually not that interested in sex, and the furthest I’ve gone sexually was with a guy, but the more meaningful moments have been with a girl.
    The main thing about other people being bisexual and other people’s perceptions of bisexuality that I hate is that I have a bisexual female friend whose boyfriend doesn’t consider it to be cheating if she goes with a girl and HE’S ALLOWED TO WATCH OR JOIN IN. Someone else could probably put into better words why I find this attitude infuriating, but it has a lot to do with the common male attitude towards girl/girl behaviour in bisexuality in that it’s fine and not a threat at all. Hello, if your girlfriend is bisexual, it should be a threat if she’s kissing a girl in your monogamous relationship. [Hell, if your girlfriend is straight and kissing a girl in your monogamous relationship you might want to be concerned about it.]
    And on the other hand, I have another female friend who has had a boyfriend who became completely paranoid about her bisexuality, considered everyone to be a threat including her friends, and got hideously possessive. It made the relationship miserable, and I was only a spectator.
    Anyway, long post is long, incoherent, and possibly not in-depth enough to explain all my thoughts on this subject – it’s just like having a conversation, this.

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    1. Court Charles

      Fascinating, but exactly the conflict I went through _ until I decided there wasn’t anything wrong with me. Only I then took it further: If he wasn’t threatened watching, maybe I should be? Maybe I was just entertainment, and all he wanted was the two of us together. But then, what did I really want? Then I was truly confused. But A GUY, and note that, A GUY, made more sense talking me through it than anyone else I have ever known. He was older than me. He definitely was smarter than me. And I knew he really liked me. His point: When you masturbate, you fantasize. But that’s OK; you aren’t really cheating on anyone even though you are thinking about someone else in very explicit terms. When you have sex, sometimes you fantasize about someone else. And that’s OK because you aren’t telling anyone. Isn’t that a type of cheating, or, at least, dishonesty? Isn’t it better just to be honest about who you are and what you want sexually? It was deeper than that, but it worked for me.

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    2. Dina

      Ehh, as long as everyone’s consenting that’s fine. If the guy’s happy watching his girlfriend making out with a girl and both the girls are into it, that’s their business.

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  19. Ab

    Some people have got et to get over that 19% – that just means the other 81% wouldn’t choose between genders! It’s a long shot, but I’m gonna say 81 is more than 19.

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    1. EpicCrayon

      This!

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  20. bfc

    I’m sorry. There’s just nothing that’s going to sway me. For most of my gay life I was so tolerant of bi girls. I dated only them. Heard so many times how they’d never felt this way about a girl before and I made them question things, blah blah blech, and ultimately, while no one cheated, they just could never go through with it, like the crazy “almost” girl I described above.

    I used to be so open minded,so understanding that sexuality is confusing, society fucked up, the battle between the conscious and unconscious lethal, but now i’m done. Like done good, well, and cooked.

    Cheers to all those real, true, brave bisexuals out there who defy what others expect and have always expected of them. I’m sure you’ll make someone happy. It just won’t be me. Because I’ll always wonder and always question. I gave it a shot for years only to be left depleted of self confidence, of trust, and boundaries. I’ll be your friend and braid your hair. I just won’t date you.

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    1. nine

      so, just because your relationships with girls who were only figuring out their queerness ended you’re going to blame all the bisexuals/queer girls? uh…most relationships end, really.

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      1. bfc

        I’m not blaming anybody. I just refuse to date them or believe them the next time they (or one) say they’re interested.

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    2. Brit

      Yeah, I am going to second that because it sounds like those girls hadn’t quite figured out their sexual identities. That and bisexuality are very different things.

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      1. Court Charles

        Wow. So the only acceptable thing is to choose: One way or the other? By whose standards, yours? Seems pretty intolerant to me _ almost a remnant of the Puritanical traditions of New England: My way or the highway. Those of us who are truly “bi,” who go both ways by choice, somehow are inferior to the purity of 100% lesbianism? We, of all people, should be more understanding and accepting than that position suggests.

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        1. Brit

          Wait — I’m confused. Was this a response to me?

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          1. nine

            i think it was supposed to be to the original post

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          2. Court Charles

            No. Sorry. General comment on intolerance.

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            1. Brit

              I thought so. Just didn’t want to have somehow been taken the wrong way. Because you seemed mad and I don’t like making people mad.

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            2. Court Charles

              Not mad. A little disgusted with some of the tone, but never mad.

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    3. Dina

      I’m sorry that you’ve chosen to neglect a part of your possible dating pool due to some bad experiences. It’s your choice, but it still makes me sad that you might miss out on some amazing people. :(

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  21. elan

    I think this whole outdated equation of bisexuality = indecision * promiscuity is fueled more by semantics than experience.

    In other words:

    Bisexual = One who identifies as both sexes, or one who is responsive to both sexes.

    So, bisexuality is a form of duality. And as most good liberal arts degree carrying persons on this site are aware: Western Thought Seldom Accepts Duality.

    So, I actually think that part of the major issue of “bisexuality,” is the terminology itself.

    Then this discomfort with the issue of bisexuality is further enhanced by the “Girls Gone Wild” imagery/experience from all those times we’ve been grabbed by a two beer queer, potentially as a wild story for her prospective male mating partners; but, while…ookey…at the same time it’s kind of awesome when even the straightest girls feel safe actively exploring their sexuality.

    In the meantime, try replacing bisexual with a different term and see if it illicits the same responses. For example, when I came out to people as gay, they didn’t believe me because I was too “pretty;” when I came out to people as bisexual, I was encouraged to play one field or the other for simplicity’s sake; when I started identifying as queer, generally people were too confused to tell me how I was supposed to feel about or express myself. And that’s how I like it.

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  22. soteria

    I was not sexually active till my early 20s. I’m really not sure how to break myself down on the kinsey scale because I simply don’t have enough experience with men or women to determine that. The fact that I’m honest and will admit to having dated men is ALWAYS an impediment when I meet a girl I like. This is particularly frustrating for me because: a) I know many women who define themselves as lesbians who have far more sexual experience with men than I do and b) I’m not interested in dating men AT ALL right now.

    I also don’t ever feel that “bisexual” is the right word to describe myself. For years, I thought of myself as asexual. I don’t think that’s true now but I also don’t feel like I am generally attracted to men and women. It’s more accurate to say that I’m not generally attracted to any gender and that, when I am attracted to a person, gender doesn’t seem to play a significant factor. I can be attracted to a man or to a woman but that’s not the same thing as saying that I’m attracted to both men and women. I don’t know if that makes sense.

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    1. nine

      pansexual? i hate labels and all…but if that helps..

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      1. soteria

        Thanks for the suggestion. Conceptually, I like “pansexual” but it’s kind of even worse than “bi” as a conversation ender (and potentially makes me sound like a satyress).

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        1. nine

          I pretty much refuse to label myself just so others will be satisfied. I like queer though.

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        2. taylor

          - and potentially makes me sound like a satyress

          amazing.

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  23. jenski

    Lisssten ladies! I really feel that the only way to resolve this debate is to post pictures of naked bisexuals. naked bisexuals.

    It’s getting a bit serious up in here, we should all get naked and make out to break the tension.

    I will rule the world one day.

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    1. Brianna

      I just searched google images for “naked bisexual” – don’t do that. Tila Tequila and Katy Perry come up.

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    2. Brit

      This open thread was feeling kind of unproductive until now.

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      1. Maria

        Yes, in a way…

        I would blame part of it on our need to feel some sort of belonging. Every group that is inclusive or different in its own ways has to exclude something else. Everyone of us is both in- and exclusive.
        I personally don’t like the bi-bashing in the lesbian community, and I have friends who say they hate bi people just in general, just because, when at the same time they want to be accepted as homosexual people. (I don’t even know if I’d feel differently about the subject if I hadn’t been out as bi for quite some time)

        I have been trying to make this not sound harsh, but somehow it always seems like I’m judging. I’m trying really not to judge when I say that for me it seems natural that even we as gay people, who think of ourselves as tolerant and open-minded, feel the need to exclude and to separate ourselves, and that that, too, can create an aversion towards bisexual people.

        In the big picture, still not helping.

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        1. Dina

          It’s a common knee-jerk response in oppressed groups. Consider how sexual minorities are treated in the black community – similar symptom.

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    3. Tiara the Merch Girl

      I have art photos of me semi-nude, wrapped up in string/ribbon/twine/rope, does that qualify?

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      1. Court Charles

        Only if we can finish unwrapping you … like a present. Then it would count!

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        1. Tiara the Merch Girl

          OH YES PLEASE

          [this reminds me of how I love being an artist. one night I could do an installation piece getting queer women to lick sweet toppings off my skin, and the next night I could dance to a burlesque song declaring the world to "BRING ON THE MEN".]

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          1. Court Charles

            I definitely think the licking part has possibilities. Very tasty possibilities … Where IS the rabbit …

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  24. Ziggy Hreins

    Love is love

    The love i feel and you are the same.
    there are no different types of love.
    there us only love.
    so why use artificial labels to separate you from others?
    It is not about who is loved but love itself.

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    1. Tiara the Merch Girl

      I came in here to say exactly this. I’m baffled by how many people don’t understand how I could make sex/gender one of the *least* important factors in my attraction to you. Male, female, neither, both, whatever – if I like you I like you!

      Even though I’ve been actively volunteering/participating in the queer community for the past couple of years now I still get some level of prejudice/disbelief because I’m dating a guy. Well I’m *sorry* I grew up in a conservative homophobic country that didn’t approve of *any* sort of relationship, and I’m sorry that the first relationship I happened to get into as soon as I left for a more open country was with a guy! And that my closest attempt at a relationship with a girl is turning into a dramatic mess! Not all of us are lucky enough to be able to act on our desires, y’know. We all had to start *somewhere*.

      Queer, pansexual, homosapien-sexual; love is love.

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  25. Liz

    I don’t date black people. I mean, I used to, you know? I was totally tolerant and open minded, and even though I had been told that they would probs cheat on me with another black person, I was willing to give them a chance, because I’m just that open minded. So then I dated this black guy and he cheated on me with a black girl. So now I don’t date anyone who is black, because everyone black is a cheater. I mean, that’s just how it is, and no one can sway me. Sorry.

    /metaphor

    Really though, I honestly can’t believe how much biphobia there is in the gay community. Bisexuals are people too (I mean, they’re obvs not real people, but whatever). Some of them will be shitty and cheat on a girl with another girl. Some wil be shitty and cheat on a girl with a guy. Some lesbians will cheat on a girl with another girl. Some straight guys will cheat on a girl with another girl. Cheating happens. It sucks, but it happens. That doesn’t mean that every insert-orientation-here you date is going to cheat on you, it just means that a single person (or possibly several someones, if you happen to date a string of shitty people) did. And limiting your options of who to date based on how they identify because of one (or several) bad people means that you’re probably missing out, and that you could never end up dating someone you could fall in love with, just because they happen to be bi.

    For anyone that cares, I’m gay. I only date girls, I only have sex with girls, I only want girls. I’m a six on the Kinsey scale (even though I’m really not a fan, since it doesn’t account for asexuality or pansexuality or whatever). But I’ve dated bi women. Some of them have cheated on me. Some of the lesbian woman I’ve dated have cheated on me, too. But I’m not going to declare myself straight or just live in self-imposed isolation because some people are shitty individuals. Not everyone is, and I’d like to give myself the chance to find someone who won’t cheat, who loves me, and live happily ever after with her–whether she identifies as bi, pans, gay, queer, or whatever the hell else you can come up with.

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    1. bfc

      It’s not a phobia. It’s just my own personal experience and you’re not going to get anywhere by mocking it. Every person has a right to relate to the world according to their relationship with it. I’m only mirroring what’s been reflected back at me.

      And yes, if in fact you’re been in a scenario where you’ve dated only black people and they keep backing out because it’s their firm belief that they should be with another black person, then you have every right to reject all black people from here on out. Not as friends or co-workers or acquaintances etc. But as lovers. Why should you keep putting yourself in situations where your pride and self-esteem are consistently diminished? Yes, there might be someone who comes along who is actually legitimate and willing to go the distance. But how can you be certain? How can you have a strong sense of stability within it? I’ve just been hurt too many times. Unfortunately a few self centered and cowardly individuals have ruined it for the lot. I’m sorry that the more stable bisexuals have to deal with it, but that is your cross to bear. Just as it is my cross to bear the never-ending turmoil of not knowing if a woman is true and sincere in her feelings and not having the choice to find someone who will mire me in a relationship more suited to the heterosexual norm.

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      1. Tiara the Merch Girl

        …you really don’t understand how bigoted you sound, do you?

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        1. bfc

          Ha! I love how for years and years I was the most understanding and inclusive person around. Then suddenly when I decide to have some self respect and place healthy boundaries around myself to avoid persistent UNHEALTHY emotional complications, I become a bigot. It’s a personal choice. Fine, I MAY miss out on some lovely people (which is the thought I had that first got me involved with all of them), but what I’m happy, no ecstatic about, is how I’ll no longer have to deal with all the strife and pain and insincerity from all those not so lovely people. So far I’ve been 5-0. I’ll think I’ll try a non bisexual next time round, thanks very much.

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          1. Liz

            This logic just makes no sense to me. Because like I mentioned in my original comment–if a lesbian cheats on you (or if several do) are you just going to pretend to be straight? Or be celibate (not that there’s anything wrong with celibacy)?

            I just don’t understand why someone would think “well fuck, an entire group of people is just terrible!” because a few people are stupid.

            And I apologize, but it sounds very much like biphobia to me, and, I’m sure, others. You’re scared to date a bi girl because of what others have done to you in the past. And, you know how homophobia tends to be a blanket term for anyone who dislikes gays, whether or not they are actually afraid of them? Same thing applies here.

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            1. bfc

              It’s not about cheating. Nobody ever cheated on me. Actually one did, and she was a lesbian! My point wasn’t this.

              What happens between me and most of these bi girls is that I tend to be the first girl they ever consider being with. And it’s not like they’re teenagers discovering their sexuality. They’ve all been in their mid to late 20s, and all had slept with several women before me. The crazy “almost” girl had slept with TEN chicks before me. They pursue me, make promises, say things that can only lend themselves to the notion one would have upon considering a serious relationship with someone. Then, for really no other reason but their inability to be in an open out lesbian relationship, they pull back.

              It’s an incessant push and pull and literally drives a person nutso after a while.

              And FYI, all these ladies continue to this day to try to communicate with me, call me, desire my friendship and attention. They want the attention, want the love, they even want to make out and have sex, but hold out for what they consider better.

              I had one girl who pulled this shit and the minute I moved on and showed interest in another girl, she went ballistic with jealousy and kept calling me day and night to get back that attention.
              Another one, crazy “almost” girl ran off to another city, then proceeded to write blogs every day about our relationship but hid the fact that I was a girl.
              Another one, whom I dated for 6 months managed to hide the fact that she had a boyfriend the entire time (for disguise purposes of course).

              Crazy girl btw did a similar thing to another chick. Once I lost interest, more so because she said she wanted a dude, it wasn’t a month before she started dating another girl. You hear me folks? A girl. Whom she lead on for 2 months and dumped because, you guessed it, she really wanted a man. Wonder how long it’ll be before she finds another girl whom she’ll be confused with, if lavished with enough attention.

              It’s not a matter of cheating. It’s not a matter of me feeling inferior to a man. In fact I feel closer to men sometimes, I like them, nothing against them. And I have nothing against bi girls. Be bi. Be bi all you want. You have no choice. I get it. Just remember that a certain percentage of your community (not all of you) is seriously fucked up and incapable of seeing how they treat the feelings of people in another community, which is with a total disregard for, dare I say the preciousness of trust and commitment and sincerity, and christ just a plain old understanding that you do not take advantage of other people in order to figure your own shit out!!!

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            2. EpicCrayon

              Now it just sounds like you dated a lot of crazy chicks.

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            3. bizzle

              Late to the comments I guess, but wanted to put in my two cents. I think it is indeed your choice on who you want to date. Some people say they will are not attracted to people of certain ethnicity. I guess I understand that if people say it’s because they are not physically attracted to how a given race/ethnicity looks. But I do have a small problem when people do not date a certain race/ethnicity based on prejudice. That’s a big difference to me. And to me, biphobia is based on prejudices.

              What bothers me personally (and it doesn’t bother me too much since this is the internet) is this sort of blanket statement/ sentiment that all bisexuals are dumb bitches who can’t make up their mind because that is your past experience with specific people. I also feel like bisexuals are often given too little credit. If she decidse to date a man over a woman, the biphobic woman will think it’s because she’s wishy-washy and ultimately wants dick and to be in a safe relationship. How about the girl decided that she and the guy matched each other better personality-wise? and had the better potential to grow old together? Long term relationships are just not all about sex.

              Also, just a note re bfc’s horrible bi exes: just because these girls were in their mid-20s and have slept with a lot of girls in the past, does not mean they have figured themselves out – it’s obvious these girls have not come to terms with their sexuality. People come to terms with their sexuality at different times, depending on a myriad of factors, right? Maybe for them, societal pressure is just too much at that given time. And maybe, you could also try to take a look at yourself (I don’t want this to sound accusatory at all) at who you are attracted to and are attracting. Sorry to sound all “Dr Drew,” but he (and therapists) often ask persons who seem to date crappy people to take a look inside and investigate what is it about you that is causing you to be attracted to nonsense people and for them to be attracted to you. It’s neither a good or bad thing. Just life. And introspection.

              Of course this may not even apply to you because I don’t know your dating history at all. Just wanted to give you all something more to think about.

              Wow, didn’t know I had so many feelings re this.

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      2. Dina

        I’m sorry but this whole thing smacks of “have you tried NOT being bisexual?”

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        1. Tiara the Merch Girl

          lol, I like how us 2 Aussies are awake enough to keep up with this thread and the ever-growing comments!

          Also, you are awesome, has anyone told you that :)

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          1. Dina

            Aww thanks! So are you <3

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    2. taylor

      liz, your metaphor is yes.

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  26. uhmina

    you know, when i first read “Just try not to cheat on me with a dude while I go get you a sandwich,” i giggled. then i frowned.

    because there IS a very inherent truth behind that arcane paranoia of lesbians who, to some degree or another, have to compete with both sexes…

    my girlfriend even pronounced that if i cheated on her with a guy, it would be a 1000x worse than with a girl.

    i get it. but it seems so very very regressive…

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  27. Rita

    Haven’t read it yet, but let me just say, Riese, I applaud you for this post and hopefully more to come on the subject. From a bisexual chick to another bisexual chick, I say, damn it’s time to let bisexuality out of the closet! From straight people to lesbians, I have faced so much ignorance during the 10 years I’ve been out as a bisexual….everyone wants me to define myself as either gay or straight. If I’m with a guy, I’m straight, if I’m with a girl I’m gay. The lesbians that I know have more prejudice against bisexuals than the straights, so I face a double-closet. I’m seen as a whore, as a traitor to the femminist cause….like, wtF? /rantover

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    1. Court Charles

      From another contented bi-sexual: Thanks for putting it so well.

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  28. via

    I’ve gotten into discussions about my bisexuality on this website before. Mostly about how I currently find myself attracted to women exclusively. However, I know that it is possible for me to be attracted to men and my logic has been that if I were to call myself a lesbian instead of a bisexual then one day fall in love with a man I would somehow harm the lesbian community. As though being a lesbian grants you some kind of untouchable integrity, whereas everyone knows bisexuals are indecisive sluts, what’s one more.

    After reading all the bi-phobic comments, I kinda wanna just stand up and proudly call myself a bisexual whether I ever sleep with a man again or not just to be a proud healthy member of a community that is poisoned by bad press, misconception, and generalizations. Sound familiar?

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    1. Rita

      DITTO DITTO DITTO.

      A kiss from me to you. I hear ya sister ;)

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  29. nine

    So….bisexuals are just like unicorns right?

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    1. Court Charles

      Horny? Or non-existent?

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    2. jenski

      cloven-hoofed? made of sunshine and glitter?

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  30. punkedoutloser

    Preconceived notions suck but it’s inevitable.

    Maybe you haven’t met the right ~sexual.

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  31. Aucoeur

    So um, this doesn’t really advance the conversation at all but I just wanted to say that two weeks ago, about two hours into Friday the 13th, I was stopped by the po’ and consequently arrested.

    It’s a long and lame story but apparently when you get arrested, they ask you if you’re a hetero, a homo or a bi and as I sat handcuffed in the back of the car, I lied and said I was bi because even in my drunken stupor I had decided that bisexuals were grossly underrepresented (thanks AS) and that I should do my part to help the cause.

    Then they took me to jail to hang out with all the crackheads and hookers.

    True story.

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    1. jenski

      Holy shit! Was it just like the Telephone video?!
      Did you put Diet Coke cans in your hair?

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      1. Aucoeur

        Unfortunately no, all they gave us were some cranberry ‘cocktail’ cartons although telling myself this was just one step closer to Lady Gaga did help tide me over until they let me go.

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        1. jenski

          Oh lord, this is not how I like to imagine prison AT ALL.
          The media has lied to me.
          Congrats on your release!

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          1. Dina

            IKR? Jail sounds an awful lot like summer day camp to me.

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            1. jenski

              It appears my idea of jail has been tainted by Our Lady of Gagalupe. Twas all just a clever ruse to get me into the correctional system. Oh Gaga, you decieved me once again!

              I apologise, it is 3am and I am drunk on the radiation coming from my laptop. I sleep now.

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    2. Brianna

      Someone is going to ask if I don’t: What were you arrested for?

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      1. Aucoeur

        Long version: Someone had just gotten into an accident on the freeway where it splits from the 101 to the 10 and the police had just arrived and were starting to set up flares. All three of us in the car saw one set of flares and thought we were supposed to avoid using that one lane but what we didn’t know was that they had planned to block off the whole freeway. They flagged me down. I explained to them the confusion. They told me to back up, said they smelled alcohol, had me get out and do all the field sobriety tests, concluded I was under the influence and took me in.

        Short version: DUI

        Lessons Learned: Avoid flares. Don’t agree to the field breathalyzer.

        Just kidding, kids! The lesson is to not drink and drive. Yep.

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  32. Haviland

    I remember when the founders of ANYTHING THAT MOVES came to speak to BAHGL Pride, my high school’s GSA back in the day. The mag was in full swing at the time. They were a married couple-a man and a woman-and they still “identified” as bi. That blew my teenage mind, and by that I mean, I thought it was AWESOME and so evolved.

    I also remember when Riese conducted her “highly unscientific” survey. I was probs the first person to fill it out. I miss the book! Oh the book proposal on the Rosie Cruise!

    Bottom line? I dream of a label-free present in the future.

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  33. Z.Lee

    I never dump a lover for another man or woman. I dump them because they’re too needy and clingy and suffering from separation anxiety. I know the desire to hug and cling to each other as “2 against the world.”

    Peeps who are exciting are so, because they get excited by life and the world.
    I also dump short term lovers because they are boring.

    Birds of a feather…
    Z. Lee

    PS: I’m not a hottie, I look ordinary w/ an ordinary body.

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  34. Dina

    Also I feel like this comic is relevant to this thread.

    Dina out. I have to go shop for wedding dresses. WITH MY GAY LESBIAN LADY PARTNER!!

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    1. Brit

      Yeah I sent that comic to my girlfriend this morning because she was chastising me for reading/commenting on this thread instead of going to sleep.

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  35. Brianna

    I was just reading an old Autostraddle post which lead to this article called “Why Are People So Afraid of Bisexuals?”

    excerpt:

    Every now and then, I hear some bisexual person grousing that we are kept to the back of the LGBT bus. I just can’t work up the dudgeon; a lot of gay and lesbian people struggled and even died so that I might have the freedom to be true to myself. That’s why, in the end, I prefer to identify as “queer”; that puts us all in the same boat, our identifying characteristic being not who we sleep with or what mix of genitalia and gender identity we possess, but the simple fact that we are not the majority, and face obstacles because of it.

    http://bit.ly/bisexualslutfacemcgee

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    1. Brianna

      That misspelling is ruining my life, fyi, I shouldn’t be allowed to comment anymore tonight.

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  36. EpicCrayon

    I feel like reading this thread, but I’m sure I’d only remember the most ignorant comments.

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  37. Madeline Burchard

    I’m bisexual and I have only felt discrimination from the lesbian community and never from the straight community at all. Lesbians have called me to my face a “cum bucket”, “dirty”, and a “slut”.

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    1. EpicCrayon

      I shouldn’t have, but I laughed, “cum bucket” sounds like a really lame insult. Even more so than the one’s you were called, which is a shame.

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      1. Madeline

        Yeah, I thought it was comical and sad also. Funny thing is that I’ve never had sex with men, so the insult was that much more bewildering. It makes me sad when people, especially other queer women, don’t give me the chance to show them how fabulous I can be. I guess it’s no big loss if they’re willing to brush me off so quickly, right?

        BTW, crayons are epic, especially those boxes that have 100+ colors and built in sharpeners. Yes, I babysit 3-year-olds.

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  38. EpicCrayon

    Yup yup, you’ll still have 81% of the queer community who won’t think you’re a “cum bucket”.

    Also, 100 crayons AND built in sharpeners, you say? Jealous of those 3 yr olds!

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    1. EpicCrayon

      @BiologyBabe

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    2. e

      “cum bucket” is nice, but i prefer “sausage locket”

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      1. EpicCrayon

        What does that even mean?

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        1. e

          it means people are assholes, thats what! ::sniffs::

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          1. EpicCrayon

            Now I’m curious and really don’t wanna google it. What does it mean? :O

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            1. e

              during the renaissance, it was what one would call a whore. it also sounds like a a piece of meat-jewelry, which i wouldn’t google either.

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      2. JustB

        I am disturbingly taken with the term “sausage locket”…I started to say tickled, but that practically screams for bringing Freud and his mother’s underthings into the discussion. Come to think of it taken might not be much better…

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  39. bondy

    You know what?

    I dislike all these labels and scales and incessant categorisation.

    I feel that there is an evolution occurring. This is never a smooth ride and always an incremental process.

    Nonetheless, if you decide to succumb to the rubric that exists currently you’ll never change anything.

    We are all people, a slight differentiation in anatomy and social conditioning is all the divides the genders. Thus, gender (as it is generally perceived) is a construct.

    I simply choose to ignore this construct and live my life unencumbered.

    It’s fun. you should try it on for size and see what happens.

    p.s. I totally completed that survey.

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  40. GrrrlRomeo

    I think folks need to separate the personal from the political. And I don’t just mean about bisexuality, but in general…stop telling people who they ought to be open to dating and how they ought to conduct their relationships. Period. People should date people who are right for them, not base it on expectations from the community.

    Not everyone is available for you to date. I understand. I do. As someone who only experiences attraction towards women, my dating pool is restricted to like 5% of the population. So I consider it a needle-in-a-haystack miracle that I found a woman
    1) with an enduring attraction to women
    2) that wanted a monogamous relationship
    3) who found me attractive
    4) that I found attractive

    Of course, I had to drive 3,000 miles just to meet her. But you know, not every girl comes to you on a silver platter.

    And of course, if you aren’t all the four things I listed doesn’t mean we can’t be friends.

    When I was dating I seemed to mostly attract girls who were questioning. But I think that had something to do with my genderqueer butch self. I mean, straight girls thought I was cute and enjoyed that I had job and a car and liked to pay for dinner. But then realized I wasn’t a boy. So, I think that was just confusing for them. Because I’d take the masculine role…but totally freak when I see a spider and cry at the end of Set It Off.

    I think some girls see a butch dyke and think it’s going to be just like dating a guy…as if they could just get passed my sex. And they think that’s bisexuality. But it’s not.

    Of course, all bisexuals aren’t confused like that. I have known bisexuals who actually have had whole relationships with women. But they understand that there’s a difference and that actually a person’s sex and gender identity is part of who they are. It isn’t something to get passed. Just like a person’s sexual orientation isn’t something to get passed.

    I had to accept the reality that I was some sort of magnet for girls who were confused either about their sexuality or my gender. I had to try to figure out how to stop from getting in that situation because it really wasn’t good for me. I just can’t get down with the notion that people should be open to relationships for the sake of others–pain, risk and consequences to themselves be damned.

    On the flipside, there are lesbians that would never find me attractive because I’m butch. I just ask that they not marginalize butch gender expression…but I don’t expect them to be attracted to butches if they’re not.

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    1. bfc

      Um.. THANK YOU. You hit it!

      Though in my case I’m not butch. So they’ve never had that excuse there.

      And yeah, what Riese said. I’m being honest. I’m being really brutally honest.

      I don’t dismiss your guys’ sexuality. I know bisexuality is real. In fact, I think it’s a more natural human state than homo or heterosexuality.
      I’m just sick and tired of being hurt and won’t date “confused” bi girls anymore. Maybe if I met a none confused one, and she REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY proved to me that she wasn’t confused, I might change my mind. But right now, I’m enjoying the calm and stability in my life.

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      1. GrrrlRomeo

        Did I hit it? I don’t know. I never explicitly excluded bisexuals from the women I would date. But I did start looking for women who had at least 1 prior serious relationship with a woman (that was my criteria for “enduring attraction to women” which doesn’t mean exclusive) and was out about it.

        That also meant that I wasn’t looking for closeted or inexperienced lesbians either. Having dealt with my own coming out and several others, I just wanted a relationship that didn’t include a coming out.

        I know what you’re trying to protect yourself from, but to be honest, I don’t think excluding bisexual women is the best way to do it. I would just advise you to look for women who have actually had the kind of relationship you are looking for. That would include some bisexual women and it would exclude some lesbians…but mostly it would exclude any questioning women. The point is finding someone who wants the same thing you do now.

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        1. RachelwasHere

          I think the problem isn’t that you are stating a preference in who you date for your own good, I think the problem is the generalization you made in making the decision.

          And I do feel you- my first gf was very much someone who was experimenting, I got burned and I’d bet all my belongings she never dates women again.

          But the conclusion to draw, as GrrlRomeo pointed out, isn’t that you shouldn’t date bisexuals. That’s a very broad ban like saying I got food poisoning once so now I never eat Chinese food (please no one mistake this analogy for comparing women to food) instead of thinking “Well, I’ll check the health department reports on area take out places and find one that keeps its buffet at the right temperature.”

          It requires more work, but it’s worth it to not miss out on kung pao chicken. It requires more work to say “Before I get involved with a bisexual woman, I want to discuss where she is at and her history and make sure she is comfortable with her sexuality and ready for an out proud lady-lovin’ relationship.” But it opens up more possibilities for you in the end.

          can anyone tell I am starving?

          Sincere wishes for a happy healthy relationship coming your way!

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    2. bfc

      ” I just can’t get down with the notion that people should be open to relationships for the sake of others–pain, risk and consequences to themselves be damned.”

      Seriously. This was so perfectly said.

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    3. gg

      I concur completely. Why is it considered cruel and close-minded to state who, what and how you want a relatioship?

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  41. JanisBing

    Okay so while I don’t think it would be appropriate to engage in conversations with people who can’t even acknowledge the validity of my sexuality, I realize this is an open thread, and that it’s meant for conversation. Therefore, I’m going to try and keep this short / civil.

    I’m a 20y-o bisexual girl. I’ve identified that way for about six years now, and I’m out to most family and friends. I struggled exactly the same way most of you did, and I have the same stereotypical stories to tell (fell in love with my best friend and freaked out, etc).

    The way I see it, I shouldn’t even have to justify who I am or find legitimate evidence to prove it. Turns out I do, and while some LGBTs find the usual “why doesn’t anybody like bisexuals” rant annoying, it usually proves necessary.

    If I experience the need to interact with my community, actively fight for its rights and get the word out there (eg telling my 83y-o -priest- great uncle I might introduce him to a *girlfriend* some day), I think it pretty much means I’m *not* a barsexual. I’m not doing it for fun (because it really isn’t). If it gets so bad that I have to spend most of my alone time on a foreign website to feel normal and sane, that alone should tell you that I’m not playing.

    I might not understand the custom perfectly yet I don’t think dating should be a political statement or anything of the sort. You should date whoever you ultimately want to be with, and this, in a perfect world, would be the sole criterion involved.

    However, I want to be clear: judging and forever shunning people based on their identity makes you a bigot, plain and simple.

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  42. j

    in the last few years i’ve come to realize that i identify as a bisexual. i have for years, it’s just taken me several more years to process that and admit it openly. i’m not even completely out about it yet either: i don’t hide it, but i have not openly told family. i do not think my parents would care, though my father might be a little weirded out. ultimately i really think they just want me to be happy. some friends know this about me, and have no problems with it. regardless, i’ve found that the reception is mixed. many guys seem threatened by it, and many girls seem… i don’t know, put off? some straight girls just assume i only want one thing from them, and some lesbians i’ve had interaction with just assume i’m forever fickle. however, i try to give everybody a fairly clean slate going into anything, friendship or more, allowing them the benefit of the doubt that they will not judge me should this be something they learn about me. i think generally though, a lot of people want to be able to slap an easy to consume label on everything, as if the world is consistently black and white. you must make a choice. it’s possible that bisexuals are perceived as slutty unicorns (i completely LOVED your response to a question on tumblr that used that phrase) because people think we simply cannot make a choice between men and women, we just want it all, when that has never been the case. i personally refuse to put a fence up when it comes to finding a suitable companion, because as i’ve found over the years i’m fully capable of falling in love with either a man or a woman on the same level as one another. i’m a rather hopeless romantic, so i still believe somewhere deep down inside that there’s someone out there who is going to compliment me as a better half, and vice versa. i do not personally wish to exclude the possibility of that being someone of the same sex simply because society doesn’t find it acceptable. it could be a man or a woman. dear world: deal with it. i have.

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  43. Rebecca

    Newbie bere So I’m 22 and pansexual (god that name leaves a bad taste in my mouth) who self identifys as queer. My first ever relationship was/is with a guy who I fell madly in love with. We’ve been dating for a bit over 2 years We are contemplating marriage at some point. but every few months I try to convince him to let to possibly take a break to have a relationship with a girl because I know I need it we agree to not break it off until I find someone. The problem is that I still haven’t found anyone willing to give me a chance. This brings up to major problems for me one being that If i don’t find a relationship now/soon I’ll never have the chance and two that I’m not willing to let my loverboy enter into a long-term relationship knowing full well that at least from my my standpoint the physical part of the relationship is starting to die slowly as the emotional part is growing that much stronger. I’m too damn noble for my own good and I want to do all I can’t to ensure I’m not slighting anyone.
    /end intro problems/

    Heres a very ranty poem I wrote a while ago there may be some stuff you may not recognize but I didn’t think that it would be as good without those sections

    On Identity

    Alone constantly buffeted by seas of identity
    transversing boundaries constantly
    Unable to find a place to fit in YOUR boxes Meant to Define MY IDENTITY
    because of Your inherent prejudice
    You are unwilling to accept my cries of injustice
    You say I’m too white I have the power quit complaining
    My skin gives the assumption of privilege
    When in reality I have no power or privilege
    I am the other
    Unable to find a place to fit in YOUR boxes Meant to Define MY IDENTITY
    Your eyes see me as
    Too female to partake in rituals that shape my Jewishness
    Too Queer to be straight
    Too Straight to be seen as a “real” part of the queer community
    Too white to be seen as someone willing to challenge white privilege
    I am the other
    Unable to find a place to fit in YOUR boxes Meant to Define MY IDENTITY
    My existence is a challenge to the patriarchy
    My wish My hope my dream to spend my life with and marry two partners of opposite genders
    this dream is a challenge to YOUR mainstream societal understanding
    I am an anomaly
    I wish to have a relationship that society can’t even NAME
    I am something YOU can’t UNDERSTAND
    BECAUSE I DON’T FIT IN TO YOUR LITTLE BOXES
    SO LET ME EXPLAIN IT
    I AM A TEFILIN WRAPPING TZIT-TIZT WEARING PROGRESSIVE JEW
    I AM A BI-AMOROUS PANSEXUAL WOMAN
    I AM DAMN PROUD OF WHO I AM
    I AM STEPPING OUT OF THE CLOSET OF BEING TAKEN AT FACE VALUE
    I AM SPEAKING UP THOSE OF US WHO ARE UNABLE TO BE BLATANT BECAUSE OF OUR INHERENT FLUIDITY
    I AM THE OTHER BECAUSE YOUR DEFINITIONS OF HOW THINGS SHOULD BE DON’T WORK FOR ME
    I AM SICK OF YOUR BOXES TRYING TO QUANTIFY MY IDENTITY
    BECAUSE IT DOESN’T WORK

    /Rant over/

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    1. Tiara the Merch Girl

      You sound like me from 2 years ago! Same situation – 22, pansexual, first ever relationship is with a guy who I love enough to possibly marry (well, except that he’s not fond of marriage as a concept) but we’ve had many discussions over how I can explore the queer side of me. thank God for open relationships/polyamoury! But like you I also am finding it hard to find someone to give me a chance, because of everything you (and a zillion other people on here) stated.

      It’s taken me two years to find a girl who showed interest (and ironically she’s an old friend/hookup of my boyfriend’s!) and even that was short-lived due to various drama. Gragh. Hopefully things go MUCH EASIER for you. <3

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  44. Marcy

    I have a boyfriend who cried for several hours when I came out to him, even though it was obvious.
    I have ten straight guy friends who are “always falling in love with lesbians” and “love lesbians” and love to get together and talk about their lesbian exes. Some of them are very threatened by their losses, while others have moved on.
    They love me because I am bisexual. I can be so free with my straight queer-loving guy friends because they think what I do is wonderful. They all have the gayest music collections.
    If I talk about Belle Epoque lesbians, or Gertrude Stein’s cows, or sex shops or girls I have crushes on with my friends who are girls, gay or bi or straight, they often get very suspicious of me. Sometimes they cry in restaurants. Sometimes they give me stink eye. Sometimes they stop speaking to me — (oh this has happened on so many occasions and I have never had a girlfriend). Sometimes they try to dance up on me in da club, even though we are friends and I don’t want to make out with them. I still have a boyfriend.
    My therapist says I have invented most of their biphobia. I agree with her. I think I am terrified of women.
    For me, it’s NOT just “about the heart.” Men and women are different, and there are a million different subsets between them, too. There are roles I play with men that are admittedly different with women.
    A lot of bisexuals seem to hate this estimation, but I agree with Alice on the L Word when she said, “Straight guys are so easy.” I long for women and am tormented by them because I absolutely cannot understand them; I surround myself with queergirl-loving boys because they are simple and easy to read. (Many hetero girls do not feel this way and I guess that is why straight men continue to be so exclusively appealing to them.)

    This thread is beautiful and triggering all in one.

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  45. Suburban Soulgirl

    I commend Riese and Autostraddle for putting the discourse out there about bisexuality. It’s needed…Greatly! And you can never have too many bi-related posts.
    ——————————-

    You know…There are few things in my adult life that turns me into an absolute hot emo mess…Admitting to myself that I really was bi is one of them.

    When I came out as bi in my late teens, I received little to no support from all sides. Although the constant fights with my straight relatives and friends over my sexuality were painful, I found the biphobia and abuse from the lesbian community (who I foolishly believed would embrace me) in addition to the lack of a strong and tight bi community (that wasn’t made up of married folks just looking to get laid) downright unbearable. And then there were the nasty stereotypes…they got on my nerves more than anything. Either way, I ended up in back the closet again…For many years.

    During that time, I lived as a straight woman and figured the whole bi thing was a phase I avoided women like the plague and had planned on marrying a guy, 2.5 kids and the whole bit…It would’ve been the biggest mistake of my life, as I wanted marriage for all the wrong reasons. The universe is a funny thing though, because I ended up falling very hard for another woman. Instead of taking it all in and enjoying the experience of crushing on someone, it turned out to be a hot, hot, mess! Mainly because I had to face up to the truth and really didn’t want to…The truth was that the whole bi thing *wasn’t* a phase.

    I think I would’ve embraced being a lesbian much easier than being bi. I feared the stigmatization, the isolation and all the drama that came with being out and bi and if it wasn’t for hearing of Lisa Diamond’s book and the study on sexual fluidity, I would have thought I was insane!

    Coming out again @ the age of 31, I met many people who went through similar issues as I…People who are ashamed to be bi because of the stigmatization and stereotypes. Those who choose to identify as gay or straight because of the bad rap the “b” word has gotten. Those who struggle with being out and bi…Many of them are even friends of mine. The stories, combined with my own experience, were great inspiration towards me putting out a website to empower and connect bisexuals throughout the world as well as educate others about bisexuality.

    Admittedly, coming out a second time was much better than the first…I’m older and stronger than I was way back when…So I am able to make peace with who I am. And although biphobia is alive and well (as I learned at this year’s pride parade), there are more people coming out as bi/queer/pan/etc. as well as an increase in allies who are open and receptive to the idea that bisexuality exists.

    I look forward to the day where bisexuality is respected and viewed as legitimate.

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  46. Barbara

    Straight men are easy and comfortable being surrounded by “bisexual” girls because they know they’re going to get them in the end.

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    1. j

      Straight men are easy and comfortable being surrounded by “bisexual” girls because they know THINK they’re going to get them in the end.

      there i fixed that for you

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      1. j

        damn html doesn’t work in the comments. whatever. i struck out know, and replaced it with think. ffs.

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    2. bondy

      @ Barbara.

      Your belief system is astonishing.

      This demonstrates how futile categorisation is.

      I really wish I could be bothered to draw and post a venn diagram that graphically represented my point, but you are not worth the time.

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    3. EpicCrayon

      …Oh.

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  47. Simon

    Can we stop saying “transpeople” as though that’s a thing? There’s trans women who are lesbian or bisexual or queer IDed, who really oughtn’t be singled out as this Other Thing different from cis women who are lesbian or bisexual or queer IDed. And there are also people who identify outside of the gender binary. But these aren’t (necessarily ever) the same thing and “transpeople” is this kind of weird, vague term that sort of lumps them together in a way that’s not really okay and sort of erases the gender of both those groups of people. (Also trans is an adjective and there should be a space in between it and whatever it’s modifying.)

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    1. Suburban Soulgirl

      I agree with your assessment…I never got the whole “gender binary” argument because from what I assume, transgender men and women identify as either male or female so that would still put them in a binary so to speak…It’s not like they’re some “other” entities.

      In addition, there are lesbian and straight cisgendered people involved with trans women and men all the time so I can’t get why it’s assumed that bisexuality is super restrictive.

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  48. Girl

    One thing that does has slightly irked me in the past is two individual bisexuals I know were quite ‘holier-than-thou’ in that they think that because they identify as bisexual, they are somehow more enlightened than those who don’t, as they are about ‘the person not the gender’. Anyhow, one of these women has on her Fb profile ‘To be happy is to love someone no matter their gender’. It was just kinda like ummm ok, for you, maybe. But that’s not for everyone.

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  49. KaraThraceIsOnTop

    55% agreed to some degree with the statement “I feel ostracized from both the straight and the lesbian worlds for my bisexuality.”

    This is the very reason that I have been a long time lurker on Auto and other (primarily) gay sites. As awesome as many of the articles, links, and ridiculous “Real L Word” recaps has been, I have always been concerned that some of the backlash I have encountered from the gay community IRL would spill into my cyberlife.

    It has taken me many years, but over time I have become more and more resolute and confident in my identity and who I am. On the eve of my 30th bday, I am proud to consider myself:

    1) First and foremost, a human being.
    2) Secondly, someone with shloads of self-respect and respect for others.
    3) Thirdly, someone who is highly empathic and capable of loving endlessly.
    4) And lastly, someone who is attracted to men and women, regardless of orientation or gender status.

    Having been in a number of long-term relationships (and infatuations) with members of both sexes and a variety of orientations, this is what comes natural to me. This is what feels normal. I am in a (very) long-term relationship now with a male partner, going on 8 years, but that does not mean that my attraction to women ceases to exist. Quite the contrary…knowing that my partner acknowledges this side of me and understands it is really awesome.

    I do take issue with the “bisexual chic” phenomenon, particularly as it has been manifested in terms of faux girl on girl action primarily for the entertainment value and satisfaction of straight men. I have gotten flak from both genders as to my criticisms of the largely Girls Gone Wild style behavior that has become so commonplace and almost expected in the hetero normative world, while at the same time entirely shunning gay sex as gross and unnatural. I find this disconcerting on two grounds, primarily 1) as a feminist and 2) as a whataeverthehellyouwanttocallit oriented woman. Bisexuality has become a marketing tool for many celebrities, and it comes across as a vapid, desperate tool for attention…leaving those of us who truly identify along those lines wondering “Well, where the hell do we go from here?”

    I have found great acceptance in certain subcultures, primarily among the fetish/bdsm scene where the community is very open and embraces attraction along the entire spectrum, but often times feel uncomfortable among my LGT brethren. Among the fet community, the pansexual label gets tossed around quite a bit, but in the end it just bugs me because dammit…

    Can’t we all just get along and quit spending so much time trying to put everyone into neat and tidy categories? The LGBT community needs to be just that – a community. We have very big battles to fight in the legal and cultural arenas, and without a united voice, our splintered attempts will fragment the community and dash our dreams and idealism.

    Love who you love, and apologize to no one.

    And to those polyamorous bi-girls, I tip my hat to you!

    /goes back into hiding

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  50. JustB

    This article was my introduction to this site and this community and wow! Riese, thank you for throwing this one out there and for the initial survey that started this whole thing. I’m pretty sure I replied to that survey myself way back when and personally, I’m always thrilled any time I come across people seeking honest answers no matter how scientific or unscientific the process ends up being. I believe that is how we learn.

    I think over all most of the discussion here has been pretty positive even if I don’t agree with every point of view completely. I love the fact that people seemed able to talk without anyone getting all ridiculous when they disagreed. A lot of places the discussion would have devolved to nasty name calling and temper tantrums to put a two year old to shame. Not to mention that a lot of you are just funny as shit.

    Something that might be worth considering in regards to the results of that survey or any survey is where people are at in regard to their own experience when they answer. I’m sure that some of my answers would be different now than what they were at the time, not because of dishonesty in responding, but because my experiences are different. My perceptions of self and others have changed, and my exploration of my sexuality is at a different place on the path than it was at that time. Hell, my exploration of my spirituality and every other damn thing is at a different place than it was last year let alone several years ago. What I’m trying to say…probably with limited success…is that some of the answers you’ll get to questions about such a personal thing are going to reflect people at all stages of understanding and accepting that part of themselves/their lives/experiences.

    I think that there have been many valid points made along with the numerous posts here and I really don’t think it’s just a matter of any one of those things that gives rise to the choices and perceptions that are made or exist either within the community or society as a whole. It’s all of those things and undoubtedly more than we’ve touched on. Honest open discourse on it brings us all closer to understanding and being able to work together for our rights as a community and happiness as human beings.

    I think in BFC’s case many people are missing something important. It’s a completely personal choice who you date and why. We’re not talking about awarding a job based on best person for the job here folks. We’re talking about who the woman chooses to date. We don’t have to agree with the reasons because they’re her reasons. She’s not saying she wants nothing to do with bisexuals at all, but that she doesn’t want to date them based on her experiences and perceptions. That’s not really any more or less valid than saying you don’t want to date someone because they are or aren’t anything else because it’s a personal choice. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. It is what it is. She may find her choice changes or she may not. I tend to agree that I think the common problem with her past girlfriends were more about character flaws than sexuality, but I’m also not seeing the point in arguing too hard. Again, it’s a personal choice. For my money if someone didn’t want to date me for whatever reason right out of the gate then I’ve never really wanted to waste a lot of energy trying to overcome their issues. There are other people out there who have turned out being interested in me who I may have been interested in and dating them has always sounded like a lot less with the banging my head against a wall.

    All that said, where’s my sandwich and the nekkid pictures of girls wrapped in string?

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  51. Tiara the Merch Girl

    OK, OK, for all you nekkid-girls-wrapped-in-string fanciers:

    (NSFW obviously)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiaramerchgirl/sets/72157624117081749/

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  52. taylor

    + i think it’s heartening how many different flavors of queer ladies (and the occasional lad) we have on autostraddle. it’s nice to see!

    + weirdly, i haven’t observed any biphobia within my community on a personal level (that i can think of at the moment?), so i always just kind of hoped/assumed it’s dissolving or something. perhaps my friends (mostly gay/queer ladies) are particularly enlightened or particularly quiet.

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  53. petitekarma

    Wouldn’t it be great if people were automatically assumed to be bi unless they obvs showed they preferred the ladies or the boys?

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  54. RachelwasHere

    While I certainly understand the avoidance of LGBT community and related things like this site given the shit response many of you have dealt with over and over, but it makes me so sad to hear. That people have avoided commenting even on THIS site (Autostraddle! they love everyone!) lest they be accused of not being gay enough or whatevs.

    I see where biphobia comes from (a number of things most of which have already been mentioned here and the rest of which you all don’t need me to list), I understand the source without excusing it. But if we’re going to change it, you guys can’t avoid holding your heads up high and stepping into the community. Push down the door if people don’t open it for you- just as important as queers coming out to change minds of straight people, we need to SEE and KNOW you awesome bi ladies to make people address and change their thinking.

    And I agree, your situation sucks extra hard because you are left fighting on two fronts with fewer allies and anyone who plays Risk knows that ain’t easy. But it’s gotta change and who else to make it happen?

    And those Ls and Qs or whatever other letters, we need to speak up too. Next time you hear a friend bi-bashing, don’t stay quiet. Don’t tolerate intolerance anywhere, least of all amongst our own community.

    As someone mentioned earlier, with people looking down even more on bisexuals there is more pressure to stay in the closet or come out for a lesbian. It’s no help to the image of lesbians to have girls who would probably identify as bisexual if it were more accepted come out as lesbians, date women and then fall in love with a man. To others that will just make lesbianism look like a phase. Embracing all varieties of queerness helps us all.

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  55. Megsly

    I actually have a straight friend that warned me not to date bisexual girls “because they’ll just break your heart”. I’m dating a really incredible bisexual girl right now. I’m not anymore afraid of her breaking my heart than I would be afraid of a straight up gay girl breaking it.

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  56. Paper0Flowers

    Jumpin’ in months later, I feel like I’d like to clarify something about why straight guys aren’t as threatened by bi girls as lesbians are.

    Case 1: My wonderful, loving and supportive boyfriend. Last year, I realized that my attraction to girls was “not a joke” (my words) when I fell head over heels with a classmate of mine. I told my boyfriend (only after telling my lezzie BFF about it) immediately, and he dealt with it. Luckily (for him), my object of desire was 110% hetero and politely blew me off before never speaking/acknowledging me again. I’m still with wonderful boyfriend a year later, and our plans to get married, have kids, be SUPER HAPPY FOREVER are still a-go, despite my girl-craziness.

    Here’s why he decided to support me because I liked a girl and not another guy – it’s not PERSONAL. His ego was intact, and my comfort with my sexuality translates to comfort with LIFE so he’s reaped the benefits because I like girls. No, not because of threesomes (I’m against them; I’m insanely jealous so I wouldn’t want to share ever). But because if I liked another guy, he’d be questioning what he was lacking or what this other guy “had” that he didn’t. Since it was a girl, he interpreted it that this girl had physical and sexual qualities he could never have AND THAT IT’S NOT HIS FAULT.

    So. Take that into account – it’s not that my BF thinks my attraction to girls is not real (he’s the only man I’ve ever been attracted and I’ll ever be with, whereas I’ve liked soooo many girls). He knows that he can’t compete with women so he will not stress about protecting his ego by punching out every girl friend I have.

    He also knows that the only way I’d ever leave him is if I found a woman who was worth losing a marriage over. I’m not looking at guys anymore, and I doubt there’s a woman out there who’s worth losing him, so I’ve accepted that I’ll be monogamous with a man for the rest of my queer-bending life because, honestly to get someone of his calibre on my first shot at dating is nothing to take for granted.

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  57. Paper0Flowers

    Right, and about the other issue here about L’s not treating B’s lightly – I’m anxiously excited about going to my first lesbian bar because one of my other bi friends said that the lesbians (read “butches”) at this particular club are incredibly rude and resentful towards femmey bis because we apparently can’t be taken seriously.

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  58. Caitlin

    everyone should be able to love or fuck whoever they want without being antagonized for it, by others or the government :)

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  59. Chaz

    I get more stick for “making my mind up” than I do having a girlfriend by the straight community (not that anyone should get stick for having a girlfriend!) Sometimes the person I’m attracted to is male sometimes they’re female. My current partner is a girl and I love her very much.

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