The World's Most Popular Independently-Owned Website for Lesbian, Bisexual and Queer Women
Leave a Comment

//

94 Comments

You Can Call Me "Fag": American Teens Don't Find Offensive Slurs Offensive

Rose

Posted by

What's in a word? Does the use of words like "fag" and "dyke" and the phrase "so gay" contribute to homophobia among young people? It's pretty taken for granted that they do. But are slurs really such a big deal, or are there bigger issues we need to fix first before going after the language? GLSEN clearly believes the former, as they have a specific campaign, Think B4 You Speak, dedicated to ending the use of the aforementioned words and phrases. (You've seen their commercials featuring Hilary Duff and Wanda Sykes, haven't you?) Whether it's working or not, people are taking notice, both inside and outside of the LGBT community. The Special Olympics has recently started its own "Spread the Word to End the Word" campaign dedicated to ending the use of the word "retarded," and it uses a lot of the same tactics: Internet pledges and petitions, commercials featuring celebrity endorsements (including Jane Lynch and Lauren Potter, who plays Becky on Glee), and guides for students on how to start the discussion. Clearly, language is an issue that a lot of activists across the social justice spectrum think is important.

via fighthomophobia.tumblr.com

Yet, for many teenagers, these slurs may not be as serious as they are to the adults behind these campaigns. An Associated Press/MTV survey found that a majority of American young people are not bothered by the use of offensive slurs by their peers:

Fifty-one per cent of those polled said they see slurs on Facebook or MySpace but most (57 per cent) say these are due to people trying to be funny.
Only around half that number believe people who use slurs hold hateful views.

Just a third of young people saw words like ‘fag’ and ‘slut’ as seriously offensive.

That's quite a lot to tackle. Most people are automatically going to see this as a bad thing -- that these kids are not getting the message that GLSEN and the Special Olympics are trying to send, that language matters and can hurt people. Another possibility is that there's so much of it out there these days that kids have become desensitized to it. On the other hand, at least some of the kids telling us that they're not affected by the language are those who it's intended to hurt:

Of those who are gay, or have a gay friend, 36 per cent find the word ‘fag’ offensive online, whereas just 23 per cent of others did.

While there is a significant difference there, it's still a minority of gay students and allies (though I have some issues with them lumping in allies with kids who are actually gay, and would like to know how the individual numbers differ) who are bothered by homophobic language. When so many kids are being bullied for their actual or perceived sexual orientation, but they aren't too bothered with homophobic language -- maybe these kids are telling us that GLSEN is missing the mark. Maybe language isn't the problem.

It reminds me of this Dan Savage video where he is asked to give his opinion on the subject of anti-gay slurs. When I heard him start to say that such language-policing is wrong because he, a gay person, likes to use "fag" and "so gay," I was all ready to disagree with him on this. But then he said this:

As adults we have a responsibility when kids use "That's gay" to put it in their heads that that's a little fucked-up…But the occasional "That's so gay" in a high school that has a Gay-Straight Student Alliance and openly-gay kids who are not being tormented and bullied, is pretty small beans. But, a "That's so gay" in a school where gay kids are being brutalized, it becomes another kind of brutalization.

It hit me because it reminded me of my own school days. I went to a high school that was like the first example Savage gives: Most of the kids were supportive of gay rights, and the minority was not a very vocal one. There were lots of openly-gay kids (and at least one openly-gay teacher) and even same-sex couples, who were able to be just as obnoxious in their hallway make-out sessions as the straight couples. We had a Gay-Straight Alliance, and it was respected -- but it didn't have that many members, because many gay students didn't see why we needed one. (In fact, a large number of the members when I was there were bisexual or trans*, two groups that were less understood and accepted -- the exceptions that proved the rule.) Of course, even high schools like mine were still full of immature boys who loved shock value and who enjoyed slinging around homophobic words, but in an environment where gay kids were accepted and empowered, we could just laugh in their faces.

Contrast that with my middle school experience, where hearing every single kid throw "gay "around as a  synonym for "stupid" was just one more reminder that being gay wasn't okay on top of being surrounded by fundamentalist Christian classmates, their parents, and even teachers who loudly and explicitly opposed gay equality. All things considered, I'm going to have to say that I agree with Savage on this one, that offensive language is a problem when it's the straw that breaks the camel's back, when it's the cherry on top of a mountain of crap that gay kids are forced to endure. They're like Dementors -- slurs need an environment full of hate and fear to be powerful. When gay kids are happy and accepted, those words shrivel and die, and aren't that difficult to defeat.

via thinkb4youspeak.com

Another thing that Savage says that resonates with me is about context -- knowing the difference between a bigot who really means the word and an ally or member of the group who is just joking around. That's something that the survey indicates kids understand: "The poll found that 54 per cent of young people see the use of the words in their own social circles as acceptable because 'I know we don’t mean it.' But when asked the question in a wider context, most said such language was always wrong." I know plenty of queer people who are fine with their straight friends calling them "fag" and "dyke" because they know their friend doesn't mean it and is poking fun at the stereotype rather than at them. I've even heard similar statements made about friends using racial slurs. But the same people would never hesitate to call out a true hater using those words to condemn those groups.

But part of the problem, and the reason I'm not comfortable completely dismissing the importance of language, is that you can't always control the context. You can't always know who else is listening besides your friends. Others could hear it and think you do mean it as a slur and be offended. Still others might actually be bigots themselves and take your use of offensive words as evidence that people out there agree with them. This is especially true online, the area where this study focuses. Who can tell whether YouTube comments full of slurs are being made by people who actually hold such despicable attitudes, or people merely mocking bigots? Nobody knows, least of all the bigots they may be trying to parody. It's Poe's Law at its worst.

And while gay kids may not have as much of a problem as adults think with anti-gay slurs, the survey found a bigger gap between African-American kids' perception of the n-word compared to all kids, which suggests this isn't universal:

"More young people (44 per cent) said they would be “very” or “extremely” offended if they saw someone using the word ‘nigger’ online but 35 per cent said they wouldn’t be too bothered and 25 per cent said they wouldn’t be bothered at all.

However, 60 per cent of African-American young people said they would be offended if they saw the word directed at someone else.

Overall, it's hard to tell for certain whether to see this study as a good or a bad sign. Maybe we should just let the kids tell us.

94 responses to “You Can Call Me "Fag": American Teens Don't Find Offensive Slurs Offensive”

  1. Andi

    This reminded me of an incident with my little sister last week. When referring to someone she thought was incredible stupid she said “Ugh, he’s such a fag!” and when I gave her a stern look she said… Well… you know what I mean, not *that* kind of fag. So, yes, interesting article.

    I also want to note that I have been reading awesome shit on Autostraddle for a good long while now and this is, drum roll please, my very first post. Thank you, thank you very much.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Andi

      O_O. We have the same name. Cool! Don’t you love how it’s perfectly androgynous and most people spell it with a ‘y’.

      Oh, and the article is very thought provoking. :D

      Thumb up 0
      1. Andi

        Another Andi! Hello! I do love the androgynous nature of my name. Fo sho.

        Thumb up 0
  2. wavvves

    Great article, Rose, super spot on. My high school sounds really similar to yours. It was a safe environment for most queer kids in terms of outright bullying, but there still were those circles that you knew just wouldn’t be accepting. But a lot of the time when someone used a slur, people kinda just ignored it. Like, they wouldn’t encourage the use of it, but they didn’t discourage or look down on it either. Even friends and allies would do this. Not that they weren’t 100% supportive, but just maybe they didn’t know how to call the person out or something? It was probably because they didn’t want to be given crap for ‘over reacting’ or whatever.

    Again, really good article. You perfectly put into words what I try to get across when I try to explain this to people. From now on, I’ll just show them this, haha.

    Thumb up 0
  3. Brianna

    The title makes me cringe. These teens don’t speak for me.

    Thumb up 0
  4. ginasf

    I love how this study asks a bunch of non-gay ID’d kids whether they find the word ‘fag’ offensive??!! Context and the background of the person hearing the slur is everything. And the only person who really gets to decide a slur is offensive is the specific group which has been oppressed by that slur. This is a stupid study whose conclusions ARE offensive. And Dan Savage, sad to say, is no more than a media whore advice columnist, NOT a spokesperson for queer/trans youth.

    Thumb up 0
    1. popupvideo

      I love this comment. The study is flawed and the conclusions are even moreso.

      Thumb up 0
  5. Emma

    Honestly, I think gay people owning the homophobic language might be a good thing. It takes the power away from it. It’s like you wanna call me a dyke, ok yep I’m a dyke. So what? I think there’s something powerful in taking hate language and turning it around with powerful connotations.

    Thumb up 0
    1. moose

      i’m gay & a dyke. that doesn’t take away the meaning/offensive quality from calling someone a fag or a dyke. AT ALL.

      I’m really frustrated over this topic. (not at you @emma)

      doesn’t intent count?

      Thumb up 0
      1. moose

        i read the rest of the comments and noticed that commenters were saying they don’t mind being called gay/dyke/fag. i might not mind getting called what i am & proud to be, but maybe i should mind. a slur is a slur, right? should we be demanding more respect? i wouldn’t stand by and let someone call another an ethnic slur, so why am i/we so willing to let people use homosexual slurs?

        Thumb up 0
        1. Raef

          Well, in answer to your first question, yes intent does matter. In fact it’s the only thing that matters; a close friend jokingly calling you a dyke is nothing at all like some random stranger hatefully doing the same.

          Hell, I can’t remember the last time I heard dyke used in a derogatory way. More often it’s used as a joke or even by lesbians just describing themselves. And that is undoubtedly a good thing.

          Similarly many black people don’t mind at all if a black friend calls them a nigger but obviously flip out if a white person does the same. They’re able to discern the different intent, and it’s something gays seriously gotta get better at doing.

          And so, no. A slur is not always a slur.

          Thumb up 0
        2. moose

          “a close friend jokingly calling you a dyke is nothing at all like some random stranger hatefully doing the same.”

          I completely agree, and from what I read in the comments, it was that commenters didn’t mind when it was in a derogatory way. That is where I can’t compute, my brain shuts down and won’t let me understand how one could not be offended by “that’s so gay”. No matter how funny or not offensive someone is trying to be, it is still perpetuating and reinforcing a negative stereotype.

          This is actually a scenario that just played out between me and a good friend. She has been saying “that’s so ‘gay {redacted boys name]’ for years when something is wrong or awful. When I came a long and questioned her about it she explained it had nothing to do with gay = bad and she does not have any homophobia going on (which I totally agree with, she’s a huge ally/open-minded). It basically was an inside joke with the guy it was named after.

          So. I conceded and started saying it as well and basically we would say it in each other’s company and that was that. Over the past 2 years, each time she (or even I) would say it, it wouldn’t sit right. I stopped saying it for the most part. It would grind at me when she would say it, and so I recently brought it up to her. Even though, neither of us had ill-will, kept in between us, and are queer and a queer ally, it just wasn’t appropriate. It made me think of people/teens saying “that’s so gay” and how I don’t approve of that, but here I am saying something essentially the same.

          /PSA

          I don’t know. I just took the GRE and learned a ton of new, more interesting words that could be used in place of something as imprecise as “that’s so gay.”

          Thumb up 0
    2. magiclovemuffin

      Who cares if we “take ownership of words.” If someone is calling me a dyke, I know exactly what they mean. They are belittling me, disparaging me, and telling me I’m a lesser human being. Just because me and my lesbian friends use the word dyke doesn’t change that. Black people use the n-word with each other all the time. If I call a black person an n-word to their face they are still going to be offended. And by the same token, if someone calls me a cracker, it won’t mean shit to me because I’ve never been oppressed or treated as a lesser human being for my race.

      Thumb up 0
      1. Raef

        They’ll be offended because you’re not black. Seriously, how hard is that to understand?

        Also, if we ‘take ownership’ of these slurs, diminish their effect and power so that their use causes people less or no pain… how is that not a good thing? You’d rather gay youth get hurt by those slurs?

        Thumb up 0
        1. magiclovemuffin

          Um, a) that was my point. Black people will be offended because I’m not black. Just like I don’t want straight people calling me a dyke. b) My other point, which you apparently missed, is that we can’t diminish the effect of these words. As long as gay people are treated as second-class citizens, words used to set them apart (words that have a history of bigotry) will hurt. If you notice what I said about cracker, that word has no power because it doesn’t represent anything oppressive. As long as gay people can’t get married, can legally be fired from their jobs, and considered weird or perverted or whatever other nonsense, words like “fag” and “dyke” will hurt. Me and my gay friends using the word “dyke” isn’t going to change that. I say to you: “Seriously, how hard is that to understand?”

          Thumb up 0
        2. magiclovemuffin

          So to connect the dots again to compensate for what I interpret as a lack of reading comprehension on your part: I do not think we can diminish the hurtful power of these words so I think the best course of action is the discourage their use and let people know that, whether they realize it or not, calling stupid stuff “gay” or calling people fags is unacceptable.

          Thumb up 0
        3. mc

          So… you agree with Dan Savage, then? You just have a higher barrier of entry: he’s cool if the immediate environment is a safe space, you’re waiting for a safe world.

          And, you know, no need to flip out. Your first comment wasn’t as clear, and your second clarified a lot of things. Breathe for a sec.

          Thumb up 0
    3. watisthis

      Sometimes I wonder if “owning” a slur is really the best thing, when I think about it, it may even be self-demeaning.

      You probably wouldn’t be able to smile and call yourself other more generic insults and still feel like a self-respecting person.

      (why yes, I am a fucktard and proud of it)

      Thumb up 0
      1. moose

        I agree about the self-demeaning. Such as being queer/gay and saying “that’s so gay” when talking about something negative.

        If we call ourselves dyke, f_g (sorry this one makes me cringe so hard), or whatever, it’s not necessarily demeaning because it’s not an insult- it’s a word. I can’t even say/type f_g because it’s not mine to own or reclaim. I feel at peace with dyke though…but the negative connotations are still embedded in my head because I remember describing my outfit as “dykey” to a friend in a disparaging way a while ago. So I think I can definitely see how owning a slur or a charged-up word or phrase can be self-demeaning.

        Thumb up 0
        1. Dina

          Queer used to be an incredibly degrading term, and is still one in some circles.

          Meanings can and do shift.

          Thumb up 0
  6. postscript

    The survey seems to have been of HS kids in general, which to me makes the results a little less meaningful. If queer kids in high school didn’t mind the slurs, then fine. But I think it’s very likely that more than a third of them find the use of these words unacceptable. I know they hurt my feelings in high school, even though my high school was pretty gay-friendly.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Raef

      Yeah, but how long ago were you in high school? The meaning of words changes over time. And as someone who just graduated from high school this year, I have no problem believing that a third of gay teens have no problem with said slurs, and am frankly surprised that the percentage isn’t higher.

      The more I think about this the more confused I get with people’s reaction to this. Other than some extreme exceptions, I hardly ever get offended by the use of slurs. What’s the point? You likely can’t do anything about their views, hater’s opinions should NOT matter that much to you (they shouldn’t matter at all, really), the intent is infinitely more important than the words used and most importantly, true homophobes are a slowly but surely dying breed. I ask again, why the hell do their opinions matter?

      Thumb up 0
      1. magiclovemuffin

        This poll includes the very kids who use these words on a constant basis. Please take note that a higher percentage found the N-word offensive. I’m so happy words don’t offend you, but for the gay kids who already feel judged, bullied or invisible, hearing that language casually in the school halls is a power negative reinforcement.

        I was never bullied in high school whatsoever. But I heard the way kids spoke to other kids in the hall, when they didn’t consider if anyone gay could hear them or not. I heard them call things gay, homo, fag and dyke and it was a reminder of how they view me, even if they never bullied me to my face.

        History has taught us words are very powerful. How special for you that you’re impervious to the power of words. The rest of the world isn’t has lucky.

        Thumb up 0
        1. Annie D

          Agreed. The first time I heard the words “lesbian” and “gay” was in a negative context which I think impacted on my later reluctance to really call myself a lesbian, even though my Mum sat me and my sister down after school that day and reminded us how awesome my gay uncles were.

          I also recommend scrolling down to read the comments at the bottom, because there’s lots of reminders and funny anecdotes about how “that’s so gay” can really mean sugar and spice and everything awesome.

          Thumb up 0
      2. Marceeahh

        This is awesome – I for one am glad to see that kids are less and less gay vs straight and more and more gay positive vs what’s your problem? (I got that from Cynthia Nixon’s GLAAD acceptance speech, thankyouverymuch)

        But another relevant question is, where did YOU go to highschool? And high school students in what parts of America (assuming, that the study was done only on American schoolkids) took part in this study? And does that extrapolate to youth elsewhere in the world? probs not.
        Words still matter to lots of kids living in areas where people are still not gay positive, and don’t necessarily have the support system they need to let words roll off their back.

        And even if they did, as I did – my mom always told me not to let people’s insulting words matter to me so much – I would come home crying and lock myself in my room because of bullies, and this was in elementary school way before I grew a back bone or even knew I was queer) and up until as recently as 4 years ago I’d think in my head “HOW THE HELL DO I DO THAT?!?!” How can I take the meaning out of the words and not let them affect me? I’m still, actually, trying to figure that out… I’m sensitive

        Thumb up 0
  7. Claire

    I think context is very important. If someone is reclaiming a form of hate speech, then in theory I’m okay with that, but at the same time, certain words will always make me flinch. However, I use various forms of the word dyke to describe myself all the time. If someone who was not LGBTQ called me a dyke, though, I would probably slap them across the face with a fish.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Brianna

      In high school I would throw pens at them, but a fish slap sounds good too.

      (see also: Don’t Call Me A Dyke)

      Thumb up 0
  8. Claire

    Also: the title of this article made me think of “You can call me flower if you want to”.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Paper0Flowers

      That’s so gay.

      Thumb up 0
  9. Senka

    Using ANY word in place of a negative one implies something NEGATIVE, BAD, WRONG, UNDESIRABLE. If teens don’t mind peers using these words negatively it’s only because they have been socialized to do so.

    Thumb up 0
  10. Tash

    I have a bisexual friend who practically disowned me for using the word faggot… In order to refer to my girlfriend. In fact I think I call her fag or faggot more than I call her by her real name. Amongst my group of amazing queer friend (who bisexual friend is separate from)gay, homo, fag, faggot are words we use to refer to each other all the time. It’s great, it feels great, it’s funny and it’s inclusive. By taking a word used so often by people trying to offend us and flipping it around, it feels empowering and fun.

    Thumb up 0
    1. OT

      That’s how you refer to each other all the time? Barf. Seriously. Hanging out with you would be one long PTSD flashback.

      Thumb up 0
      1. Salicet

        Agreed. I might disown someone for that,too. It’s important to recognize that people have different experiences with certain derogatory terms. I wouldn’t see it as “fun” or “empowering” at all.

        It IS worth it to avoid language that may be offensive or triggering to certain people.

        Thumb up 0
    2. Paper0Flowers

      Not gonna lie, I’m on your bisexual friend’s side =\

      Thumb up 0
  11. Dani

    I don’t have a problem with slurs towards myself. Call me a dyke, call me gay, whatever. What? Do you want a special award for pointing out the obvious?
    I think the real question is why we care what haters really think anyway. Seem to me their slurs are a no nonsense easy way to figure out who to stay away from. Haters can hate all by them selves over there and I’ll be over here having a nice life thank you very much.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Raef

      “I don’t have a problem with slurs towards myself. Call me a dyke, call me gay, whatever. What? Do you want a special award for pointing out the obvious?
      I think the real question is why we care what haters really think anyway. Seem to me their slurs are a no nonsense easy way to figure out who to stay away from. Haters can hate all by them selves over there and I’ll be over here having a nice life thank you very much.”

      /topic

      Thumb up 0
  12. Jactance

    Yes, people who are using the word “fag” and “gay” as replacements for negative words might be trying to be funny, but someone can be trying to be funny and still be offensive at the same time (ie. dead baby jokes).

    Personally I think I’m ok with words like fag and homo as long as the person using them is also queer. I feel like the overuse of these words is kinda weird anyhow, since I don’t go around referring to fellow Asians as “chink” or fellow women as “cunt”. But maybe I’m just a prude.

    Thumb up 0
    1. kd15

      Yeah, the joke/offensive part was a bit odd. Just because something is supposed to be a joke or supposed to be funny doesn’t mean it’s not offensive.

      Thumb up 0
      1. Paper0Flowers

        Yeah, if the punchline is that gay is a negative state of being, then that shouldn’t be accepted as a simple ‘joke’.

        Thumb up 0
  13. Kels

    Both myself and my very much lesbian girlfriend use the terms “that’s so gay”, “thats hella gay”, “gay shit”, etc…. More often than not we take a moment to giggle at the irony of it, but it is something we use like lots of young people our age. It’s a dirty habit, just like cussing or picking your nose or chewing your nails, and like every dirty habit you must be careful lest it slip out in front of mixed company. Many members of our community are offended by it, and they have every right. I can be offended by it if it comes from the wrong person and it seems like there’s some hate behind it or they’re just being grossly familiar. And I am one of those “radical” non-heterosexuals that prefers the term “queer” when referring to my own sexuality. I think this does show a trend though- everyone, including members of the community that these slurs are intended to target- care less and less about hateful language. I believe it’s because it’s been reappropriated, some believe it’s because members of our community have been socialized to accept it. I think the real test will be how I’ll feel when I have kids and they start using such words.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Becca

      When I was growing up, (in the hick parts of the South) my semi-rascist Grandpa/mom/various other family members would occasionally make a comment about those “queers”, “queerios”, if they saw something on the news about Pride somewhere, say. I never heard anyone else, even my few gay friends around me, really say the word until I started reading Autostraddle, so I thought that it was a derogatory term. (Apparently it only is when used by old people?)

      On the other hand, me and my friends have always called each other “fags”, and “that’s so gay”. Now that I’m older I try not to do this in mixed company so that people won’t get the wrong idea (and never around gay people whose sensibilities I don’t know.) It’s just not that big of a deal. Personally, I really don’t care if you call me a dyke or a fag, as long as you don’t say it with hate. And then you can definitely tell, you know?

      And I have since modified it to “that’s so gay – and not in a good way” to avoid offending people.

      Thumb up 0
      1. moose

        then it’s not gay! gay is good :)

        Thumb up 0
  14. alice

    I am part of the LGBT community, and I’m not really sure how I feel about this. I kind of feel like using any of those words is wrong, but at the same time the normalization of them for some, maybe, has lessened the hurtful impact of them. maybe. but a slur is still a slur should normalizing them even be ok? Idk.
    someone can call me whatever they want, it’s their own hatred and ignorance that will come back to them in the end.

    Thumb up 0
  15. Kai

    I would like to see what the numbers are like for gay students who are offended, not including allies. I have explained that I don’t like these words to people and they still generally don’t see what my fuss is about.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Sam

      Ditto about the allies. There are friends OF the community, and then there are friends who’re IN the community (you know, those people you always assume are gay because they’re always with the gays and they know what’s up). I wouldn’t outright dismiss this study if they included the latter but not the former, but slapping an ally sticker on any old friend of the ‘mos and asking them to speak for the queers is just silly.

      Thumb up 0
  16. a

    I’d agree about the context, although I guess I’ve been socialized to flinch at all offensive words, however used.

    Basically, I made a point of dramatically calling out kids who used “that’s so gay” etc when I taught middle school, because it made a point to the kids who might be offended/hurt by them.

    And because even if no one was offended that particular time, it made it very obvious to al the kidsl that I (and all of the other adults in the school) was not going to let anything hateful go on. I don’t think a school could get to the point of having a culture where homosexuality isn’t a big deal (if that’s not where the community starts from..i.e. if the sixth graders don’t all enter with that attitude) without first making it a big deal.

    I do not make a point of calling out my gay male friends who refer to each other as “faggy,” and every now and then I refer to myself as “dyke.” Because that, while lacking in taste, is sometimes hilarious.

    Thumb up 0
  17. Emmy

    I’m a bisexual teenage girl, and I find all of those words offensive. I can’t even bring myself to use them as jokes ‘cos they make me uncomfortable to say. I have a special problem with slut/whore/ho/etc because slut-shaming bothers me so damn much (fuck yeah I’m a (safe, ethical) slut, but where do you get off insulting me for it?). It’s so ubiquitous and it’s almost unconscious when people do it. At least with homophobic or racial slurs, people will agree with you when you said “wow, asshole” but I get slut-shamed and my friends just say “well… yeah… maybe you shouldn’t be so easy.”

    Thumb up 0
    1. kc

      Well said.

      Thumb up 0
      1. Emmy

        I hate the hypocrisy (one of my friends cheated on her boyfriend with me, and she calls me a slut… nice, bro). I have a sort-of-mostly-open relationship with my boyfriend and he touched my boobs on the first date (no, I didn’t “let” him, it’s not a privilege he has to earn, I’m actually into people touching those) and he and I have wonderful kinky sexyfuntimes (though no penetrative sex… yet) and I’m super pleased with it, thanks guys. I like fucking.

        Thumb up 0
  18. magiclovemuffin

    The thing is, isn’t this a poll of all teenagers? So presumably all the straight kids who use words like “fag” and “that’s so gay” are the ones in the poll saying it’s inoffensive? I actually had a heated conversation with a friend about this once. He insisted calling stuff gay wasn’t offensive because wasn’t meant to disparage anyone specifically and he doesn’t literally mean homosexual. I insisted that when you live in a world that has made it clear gay is not OK, hearing “that’s so gay” is hurtful and every gay kid knows, whether meant to literally mean gay or not, the phrase derived from mocking homosexuality. Basically, it’s not up for a straight person to decide if a gay person should feel offended by language that disparages gay kids. My point was, whether he thinks it’s offensive or not, it is offensive to other people and I would think the desire to not hurt people he cares about would trump his need to be able to call shit gay.

    I think it’s very telling and more problematic that the majority thought anti-gay slurs weren’t offensive. It shows this language doesn’t bother them not because no one finds it offensive, but because maybe they don’t care about the plight of anti-gay speech. How does the word “nigger” poll? Yep, people will even be offended I didn’t type “the N-word,” that’s how conditioned we are to know it’s wrong. More kids had a problem with that word and a stronger problem with it. Clearly, they know racism is wrong. But homophobia? Who cares.

    There is an obvious a context difference — I feel like that isn’t even part of the discussion. We know what is meant when we talk about slurs. Ironically saying something is so gay as a gay person when you literally mean camp, flamboyant — you know, gay — is different than the straight kid saying extra homework is “gay” or his friend is being gay for not wanting to go out. To quote Queen Latifah from the song UNITY: “Now everybody knows there’s exceptions to this rule/Now don’t be getting mad, when we playing, it’s cool/But don’t you be calling out my name/I bring wrath to those who disrespect me like a dame.” Boo-yah.

    Also, I still think Dan Savage sucks.

    Thumb up 0
    1. bra

      “To quote Queen Latifah from the song UNITY: “Now everybody knows there’s exceptions to this rule/Now don’t be getting mad, when we playing, it’s cool/But don’t you be calling out my name/I bring wrath to those who disrespect me like a dame.” Boo-yah.”

      That was ah-mazing. *high five*

      Thumb up 0
  19. K

    One of my dear friends just came out as bi like three days ago. We ended up at a gay bar last night. On our way back in (we left momentarily when he got cold feet haha), he remarked, as a synonym for stupid, “that’s so gay.” As a Marine, born-again Christian, and someone who grew up really conservatively, it makes sense that that was the language he was used to. But he *immediately* caught himself and went “oh, crap, I probably shouldn’t say that anymore.” I was so proud of him. =)

    Thumb up 0
  20. Lu

    This reminds me of a really interesting thing that happened to me about a year ago. I was sitting in class with a friend of mine (who’s also gay) and he yells across at me something like “OI! DYKE! GET YOUR ARSE OVER HERE!) Now, I have no problem with being called a dyke (as long as I can discern that there’s no unfriendly sentiment) and I refer to myself as one, purely because I dislike the word lesbian, anyway, this *straight* girl jumps to my ‘defence’ and starts berating him against ‘calling me a dyke because it’s so offensive’ I honestly just laughed at her, which was probably a bad reaction, but then had to explain to her a) that I can defend myself, and b) that it was okay for him to call me that.

    Anyway, the point of this rambling post is that people need to think about context before they speak.

    Thumb up 0
  21. Ferin

    I would agree with the idea that the intention used behind the word is what can make it offensive.

    However, anytime I hear someone use “that’s so gay” or “fag” I still flinch a little bit. It sticks out like a huge red flag to me. On a personal level, I’m not at all offended, because I generally know the person using it well enough to know they don’t mean it in a derogatory way.

    But, I think it’s important to remember the specific people that these terms have the most effect on. I’ve been 100% out and open about my sexuality for years, and have a good amount of self-confidence. But, especially in high school, it’s the kid standing in the hallway behind you, who’s been internally fighting with him/herself about their sexuality that these terms will have the greatest effect on. Even if it’s not consciously recognized, terms like “that’s so gay” really just foster internalized homophobia in our society.

    I think there is something to be said about queers owning the words themselves, however. Being able to show your confidence in yourself and your sexuality can be a huge comfort to those who’ve yet to come out. And when you own words like dyke/fag/gay, we can turn it around and give those words a very positive connotation.

    Thumb up 0
  22. KSH

    I believe it’s morein the context the person says it in. Though I can see why people find it offensive. However language is always evolving and no word really means what it use to. It’s linguistics. Each word holds a different meaning for example as an African-American I can tell you Nigger is different from Nigga. With the first being a word I hate even typing, but the latter being a word that can be synomonous with friend. And you will hear a lot of older people talk about how the younger generation shouldn’t use the word etc. But times change and I believe you should remember the past but not stay stuck in it. HA I can remember a lot of times when people have said something and after the fact being pulled away and told why I should find that offensive and me being confused as to why this word mattered so much. The same with words like “fag” “homo” etc. It’s really hard to police words. It’s one of them agree to disagree things. And society and what you are use to hearing. But this is just my opinion seeing that I was taught “the truth ain’t no rumor” meaing when people call me dyke etc. I’m just like -_- took you long enough to figure it out. And living in the south you hear a lot of N-word references but you have to choose your battles. Ahhh language is a tricky thing…

    Thumb up 0
  23. Intern Grace
  24. Libby

    Using the word gay in replace of a negative work is (retarded).

    Come on. Being called gay or dyke because you are queer is different than calling something negative gay. Call me gay all you want, but if you happen to say that the rules at the library are gay? Grow some more brain and expand your vocabulary. Odds are there is a more appropriate word out there.

    Thumb up 0
    1. terracottatoes

      THIS SHUSHING BUSINESS IS TOTALLY FAGGY

      Thumb up 0
  25. Marceeahh

    The thing about “being careful not to let it slip out in mixed company” is that by doing so you’re acknowledging that the words have MEANING and (and that the meaning can be taken out of context and therefore context has meaning also but STILL)

    And the thing about people not really meaning the words they say to offend anyone in particular reminds me of this joke by my all time fav Sarah Silverman: That’s so gay! … uh, I didn’t mean gay as in “homosexual” I meant gay as in “retarded”! HAH!

    So yeah, words have meaning and you can use them in a joke like the above as a straight lady and still get shit for it (she’s gotten SO much crap for making jokes about racism, sexism and as in the above homophobia from people who need the joke explained to them and take all the funny out of it, it’s not even funny!) So when people say that is so gay, or so retarded, and they actually mean any or all of the words written in that GSA poster above – then it is equating the word gay and retarded to all of those words, it’s saying gay means all of the above (ludicrous, asinine, pathetic, annoying, etc …)

    I think the way to “take the word back” and let people, not just allies but all people use it, would be to have a new poster asking exactly what do they mean by gay:

    Did you mean: ludicrous, asinine, pathetic, weak, annoying, bogus?

    OR did you mean: those birkenstocks are so typical of the lesbian fashion? or wow, she’s really bringing the mullet back, that fashion week lady…. or wow that lady with the flannel shirt, skinny jeans, ear lobe expansions, asymmetrical hair cut, leather cuff, and sensible shoes (chucks), reading autostraddle on her mac book at the coffee shop is really piling on the stereotypes, huh? (ok I’m describing myself here)

    OR did you mean: I just literally was witness to people who appeared to be of the same gender engaging in homosexual sexual activities in front of me, that made me feel uncomfortably hot.

    OR – did you mean: Awesome, Hip(ster), Cool, Radical, inspiring, hard working, impressive, interested in human rights, chooses words carefully, I kind of wanna be like that person – I’m having a do-be-do dilemma, fashionable, intelligent, hilarious, hot, sexy, informed, has swagger.

    Why are the other options not offered as options for the word gay? why do we continue in our fight to change the way people choose their words, only offering up the negative connotations we know are already assumed of “gay” and “retarded”?

    When a straight, white male co worker was having to peel 4 Qts of Garlic (while I picked leaves endlessly) and he said “man, this is so gay” My response was “Well, I don’t know if this is the most homosexual activity I’ve ever partaken in, but I’ll try and see how to incorporate it, and let you know how it goes” I laughed, I made him feel dumb for using words incorrectly, and guilty because he thought he hurt my feelings and called me later in the day to apologize.

    Cause when gay people refer to each other, ourselves, the things we do as dykey, or faggoty, or soooo gay, we usually mean awesome. That, I think, is the difference.

    Thumb up 0
    1. Becca

      Because glitter is a privelege, not a right.

      Thumb up 0
    2. Paper0Flowers

      It’s okay to be Takei.

      Thumb up 0
    3. moose

      love.

      Thumb up 0
  26. Ericka

    this makes me kinda sad. :(

    Thumb up 0
  27. Sharks

    This whole “study” bothers me. What was the sample size? The geographic region? The margin of error? Maybe I just missed all that info, but it seemed like a pretty glaringly obvious hole. I’m not going to believe that one vocabulary-challenged set of teenagers suddenly speaks for all teens, nor for all people as a whole.

    What this points to is the more troubling issue of crass language becoming “the norm,” which is not a good thing. What these teens are going to find are a lot more adults who don’t find their gutter-oriented brand of humor particularly funny. I don’t find it cute when I see teeny-bopper girls on t.v. calling each other sluts, bitches, and whores by way of greeting. As a lesbian, I wouldn’t find it humorous, ironic, or endearing if another gay person called me a dyke. And believe me, I have a sense of humor–it just doesn’t rely on the underwhelming crutch of ironic name-calling. I dislike the idea of a group taking back “ownership” of a word by using it repeatedly within their own group, then throwing a massive fit when someone outside the group uses it. That just smacks of double standards, and I’d much rather see an offensive term die completely–across all groups–than come back as some zombie word that’s okay in certain contexts, but not in others.

    Bottom line: I think this study is TOTAL BS, and I disagree with it. Interesting article, though.

    Thumb up 0
  28. Kayden

    I’m 16 and I am totally offended when people say stuff like that. I’m constantly trying to correct people but I just don’t think it means anything to them. They don’t realize how much they are hurting me and others.

    Thumb up 0
    1. magiclovemuffin

      This. But one thing I will say, if it’s any consolation, is that I personally heard a lot less of that sort of talk in college and even less once I got to “the real world.” Props to you for at least trying to correct people though. Even if it doesn’t always work, still admirable, in my opinion!

      Thumb up 0
  29. Cait

    I don’t mind being called a dyke at all (I kinda prefer it) but when people say faggot it crosses a major line for me. I think it has a lot do with how much hate can be verbally delivered with a word like that.

    I heard a gentlemen (term used loosely) in class retelling a story and in part of he goes, ‘What are you, a faggot?!’ with just the worst tone, and so much disgust. I could hardly believe it and was like… Would you please not use that word, it is inappropriate and offensive to many, including me CAUSE I’M GAY AS FUCK.
    Dude was quiet after that.

    Thumb up 0
  30. Julie K.

    I lived in the San Francisco/Bay Area since 2005. I could count on one hand how many times I’ve heard the word “faggot” or “that’s so gay”. Even then, I can’t even recall where I heard the phrases…and it’s been FANTASTIC!!! I do not miss those phrases!!

    I heard them all the time in high school and middle school. I hated it!!

    I like the idea/concept of calling people by their birth names or by terms of affection; rather than derogatory terms. That’s just me. :)

    Thumb up 0
    1. mel p

      The last time someone yelled ‘DYKE’ at me was on Castro St. this year. And it was part of an altercation with an older (50-ish) gay man with a massive sense of self-entitlement. I kind of think of San Francisco as more of a gay paradise than a lesbian one, but maybe that’s just me.

      Thumb up 0
  31. Tiger Gray

    I am on the intent and context is everything side of the fence. The language policing has actually irritated me to the point where I don’t participate in almost any queer communities anymore, because the infighting can be so vicious and really does bad things for me mentally after awhile. (bonus points if you’re trans and other trans people tell you what you can and cannot call YOURSELF) I also wonder if this kind of language stuff doesn’t hurt instead of help. What’s the difference, at a certain point, between this and don’t say gay at all? Then you’re taking away a powerful thing for LGBT folk, especially LGBT kids in schools, which are their own little environments already. Or how about the fact that while overt prejudice has seen a reduction in America, subtle prejudice has taken over? Isn’t this focus on words, in some cases, only helping to hide bigoted thoughts and attitudes? Food for thought anyway.

    Thumb up 0
  32. missyjustice

    Interesting… well I don’t really trust any of those polls being as so many people are not included in them, myself included. I am offended by racial slurs and homophobic slurs. Of course context matters and who is saying them. When gay people use terms like fag, queer, and dyke it is often not meant to be offensive however when i hear my homophobic roommate use these terms it pisses me the fck off. Same with the N word. If it doesn’t apply to you, i’m gonna give you the side eye when you use it because i don’t know you’re intent.

    Thumb up 0
  33. Meghan

    If people think the use of the words “fag” and “dyke” are ways of “trying to be funny”, i think they need to learn legitimate ways to be funny. Personally, i think the words are offensive and I feel like it is dangerous to say otherwise and throw around statistics where 57% of kids is called the majority–its only a bit over half. Statistics like this suck because clearly the surveys were NOT controlled. The “majority” that don’t mind could all be heterosexual in which case obviously they are not offended. If the words are deemed ok to be used by some people in some situations, its opening up the floodgates for them to be used by everyone in any situation, including legitimately hateful ones. Not Good…

    Thumb up 0
  34. Sophie

    I’m straight, and I used to toss the phrase ‘that’s so gay’ around all the time. It used to make me feel so awkward and really not that great about myself, but I was thirteen and pubescent and desperate to keep my friends and to be ‘cool’. (I was such a cliche.)

    Eventually I got less hormonal and just stopped saying ‘that’s so gay’ about anything. Honestly, I’m still not sure what my feelings about it are, but I know I feel really uncomfortable saying it. My younger siblings have started saying it, and if my parents don’t talk to them about it soon I’ll do it myself.

    But ‘faggot’? No. No way. I hate that word and I hate what it stands for and hearing it makes me all twitchy. Which, unfortunately, means I feel twitchy a lot.

    I have noticed that slightly older generations (those who have just left school or gone to uni, or even the oldest people at school) don’t say it at all. Maybe they do decide it’s offensive once they’ve got some perspective.

    Thumb up 0
  35. Louis

    Sorry for necro’ing this.

    But what if I really AM unpolitically correct? Despite living in a big city, there’s a very loose strings community that repetitively goes to certain events and knows this and that person. I wouldn’t say I was ‘friends’ with all these people, yet I have no problem using racially-offensive, sexually offensive jokes (and I’m black AND bisexual), and whatever else offensive.

    Words have as much power as you give them, and quite frankly I really WOULDN’T be offended to be called the nigger or fag because I just don’t relate. I don’t feel enslaved, I never was and never will be. None of my ancestors were, as far as I know. Holding on to the bad times is never good; even if we’re still in em.

    I’m sorry if it bothers you, and please be sure to tell me so I don’t continue to re-open wounds. But I like to say faggle, buttsex, butt pirate, knee-grows, and other silly things like that. I don’t feel cool, I just feel amused and free.

    Thumb up 0

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment. Log in or Register.

Site Meter